PDA

View Full Version : Petey King: Power Rankings (Broncos 20)


Pseudofool
05-11-2009, 11:02 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/05/10/may11/index.html

4. Chicago
I may not like how Jay Cutler babied his way out of Denver, but by Labor Day, the football world will have forgotten, and by Thanksgiving, the most popular baby name in Chicagoland will be Jay. (Unless it's Jerry, as in Angelo, the man who stuck his neck out and made this deal.) Cutler's a big-time player, and I suspect we'll find out over the next few years if he has nerves of steel and can win the big game.

Now, there's two things we don't know about Cutler and this offense. There's not a great receiver in the house and no promise of one on the way (Angelo should have guaranteed Torry Holt more money to get him to come to the Windy City). So Cutler's going to have to make do with the Devin Hesters and Rashied Davises, apparently. (Not that there's anything wrong with Hester. But he should be a third receiver, using his speed to game-break.)

Two: How good of a leader can Cutler be, coming in with the knock that he chafes on some teammates. It'll be interesting to see if he meshes well with Brian Urlacher; I don't take for granted that he will. Because of the Cutler factor and because I don't love the defense the way I did two or three years ago, I didn't want to leap the Bears over so many other teams. But then I went back and looked at their 2008 numbers. The bedrock stats for a good defense, I've always thought, are opponents yards per rush, turnovers forced and opponents' yards per pass. The yards per rush, 3.4, was excellent, third-best in the league. Turnovers forced, 32, was very good, second in the league. And yards per pass play by foes, 6.20, was eighth in the league. All good. If Cutler can lead an offense that puts up 400 points, only a point and a fraction more than a year ago, the Bears should win 12

7. San Diego
Philip Rivers' great 2008 season was lost in the fog of a weird, controversial 8-8 year. I bet there haven't been 20 seasons -- ever -- as statistically impressive as the one Rivers had last year: 65 percent passing, 4,009 yards, plus-23 touchdown-to-interception differential. Now Shawne Merriman returns with his wacked-out, Seau-like desperation to succeed, and first-rounder Larry English comes from the Mid-American Conference determined to prove A.J. Smith didn't reach for him. This team's good enough to win 13, but it has to survive the toughest road schedule in the league: at Pittsburgh, at the Giants, at Dallas, at Tennessee, all in the last three months.

20. Denver
For years, Broncos fans had to sit back and just trust Mike Shanahan, because some of those weird Maurice Clarett-ish decisions he made were so counter-intuitive. So now Pat Bowlen hires boy wonder Josh McDaniels, and the Broncos fans have to think the same thing all over again. Jettisoning Jay Cutler? Drafting a running back with the first pick when the crying needs are all over the defense? Paying a long-snapper $1 million a year? I like McDaniels. I think he's smart, he doesn't have rabbit-ears, and he's a man of his convictions. He can coach the hell out of the quarterback position, but he may not have a very long honeymoon period.

27. Oakland
In every story about the Raiders' prospects this offseason, there's been some reference to the attitude/work ethic/study habits of JaMarcus Russell needing improvement. That's not good. The quarterback of your team has to know enough to be the hardest worker and the leader, and it sounds like Russell is neither. He's still young enough in his career to become that worker bee, but you've got to have your doubts as of now. I like that Tom Cable doesn't seem to be taking any crap from him, or anyone on the team, for that matter. I just don't think it's enough to get a team with questionable skill players and a mediocre defense over the top.

29. Kansas City
Could the Chiefs be this year's Dolphins, a team that gets a quarterback and magically starts being competent? Don't think so. Not unless the front seven of Kansas City is a lot better than it appears right now. The Chiefs surrendered an alarming 5.0 yards per rush last year, and that's not going to change overnight just because they're playing a 3-4 now and because they picked a couple of big bodies, Tyson Jackson and Alex Magee, with their first two choices in the draft.

Mogulseeker
05-11-2009, 11:06 AM
No way Chicago is that high.

Gcver2ver3
05-11-2009, 11:08 AM
Chicago #4?...

Popps
05-11-2009, 11:08 AM
Chicago 4?!

LOL

O.K..

Hotrod
05-11-2009, 11:10 AM
IMO he is giving way to much credit to the chefs and faid.

Popps
05-11-2009, 11:10 AM
I like McDaniels. I think he's smart, he doesn't have rabbit-ears, and he's a man of his convictions. He can coach the hell out of the quarterback position, but he may not have a very long honeymoon period.

True on all counts. People are already calling for his head, and as this board proves... a good contingent of "fans" out there will probably be just fine with him failing if it proves their point.

He'll get NO honeymoon period with the fans/media.

That said, Bowlen is also a man of his own convictions. He doesn't need people's approval to run his business. Don't look for him to overreact to slow start.

Beantown Bronco
05-11-2009, 11:11 AM
Chicago at 4 must be their anticipated divisional ranking.

telluride
05-11-2009, 11:12 AM
This is excellent. I wish he'd put Chicago at #1. Get as much pressure on that team and on Cutler as possible, so that they explode. All the better for us.

Also, put us at #32. Stay under the radar. Get dissed and dismissed. All the better for us.

Pseudofool
05-11-2009, 11:17 AM
The notion that rankings some how give a perception of what the rest of the league thinks of the Broncos or the Bears is ludicrous. Personally, I like it when the media articulates my teams praises; rather than running with the sensational or feel-good story.

I honestly don't think rankings such as this provide players with any fodder to get fired up one way or the other.

PRBronco
05-11-2009, 11:26 AM
Weapon X hears the doubters. Weapon X grows angry.

DenverBrit
05-11-2009, 11:26 AM
No way Chicago is that high.

King is.

Br0nc0Buster
05-11-2009, 11:29 AM
Weapon X hears the doubters. Weapon X grows angry.

lol indeed

As does Kyle Orton, and you dont want to see the Orton when he is angry

Hamrob
05-11-2009, 12:27 PM
I like McDaniels. I think he's smart, he doesn't have rabbit-ears, and he's a man of his convictions. He can coach the hell out of the quarterback position, but he may not have a very long honeymoon period.

True on all counts. People are already calling for his head, and as this board proves... a good contingent of "fans" out there will probably be just fine with him failing if it proves their point.

He'll get NO honeymoon period with the fans/media.

That said, Bowlen is also a man of his own convictions. He doesn't need people's approval to run his business. Don't look for him to overreact to slow start.Yeah...and even King knows, what a dumbass move it was to trade Cutler. He only has himself to blame for not getting a honey-moon period...I hope his sack is big enough to carry through on his ego!

Yeah...the Bears #4? Wow. I guess that's what happens when a franchise QB falls out of the air and lands right in your hands!

DenverBrit
05-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Yeah...and even King knows, what a dumbass move it was to trade Cutler. He only has himself to blame for not getting a honey-moon period...I hope his sack is big enough to carry through on his ego!

Yeah...the Bears #4? Wow. I guess that's what happens when a franchise QB falls out of the air and lands right in your hands!

You do understand that Bowlen was the one who said 'trade Cutler,' not McDaniels.
Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ???

PRBronco
05-11-2009, 12:40 PM
You do understand that Bowlen was the one who said 'trade Cutler,' not McDaniels.
Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ???

No doubt, it's getting really annoying hearing pretty much every source for sports news claiming that the first McD did when he arrived in Denver was shop Jay Cutler. FFS people.

fdf
05-11-2009, 12:46 PM
Wow. I guess that's what happens when a franchise QB falls out of the air and lands right in your hands!

You're right! It's amazing how Chicago went to number 4 without even playing a game. "Franchise quarterbacks" are surely magical. The other teams in their division should flat give up now to avoid the humiliation of having to play against a "Franchise Quarterback."

Paladin
05-11-2009, 12:50 PM
You do understand that Bowlen was the one who said 'trade Cutler,' not McDaniels.
Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ???

Because some people are just not able to understand concepts like that. It is, for them, much more fun to be a debbie downer than to wait and watch what happens.........

Anaximines
05-11-2009, 12:58 PM
7. San Diego
Philip Rivers' great 2008 season was lost in the fog of a weird, controversial 8-8 year. I bet there haven't been 20 seasons -- ever -- as statistically impressive as the one Rivers had last year...

Best 8-8 team ever!

Cam07
05-11-2009, 01:05 PM
Yeah...and even King knows, what a dumbass move it was to trade Cutler. He only has himself to blame for not getting a honey-moon period...I hope his sack is big enough to carry through on his ego!

Yeah...the Bears #4? Wow. I guess that's what happens when a franchise QB falls out of the air and lands right in your hands!

Amen, brother! I know if we could have a Jay Cutler on our team we would be the 4th best team in the league...err wait.

Beantown Bronco
05-11-2009, 01:05 PM
No doubt, it's getting really annoying hearing pretty much every source for sports news claiming that the first McD did when he arrived in Denver was shop Jay Cutler. FFS people.

:stirstir:
That's right. He readily admitted that it was the 5 other "marquee" FA signings he said he was busy taking care of first that caused him to be "late to the dance" on the Cassel deal. :contract:

Houshyamama
05-11-2009, 01:14 PM
Best 8-8 team ever!

No kidding. I am so sick of the media slobbering over the Chargers year after year. It never ends.

BroncoBuff
05-11-2009, 01:19 PM
People are already calling for his head, and as this board proves... a good contingent of "fans" out there will probably be just fine with him failing if it proves their point.
You're just lying in wait aren't you?

There's no "contingent" of guys wanting the team to fail there, Skippy. Even the most anti-Josh posters like SoCal will be real fans come gameday.

EVERYBODY BE ON NOTICE: If you have questioned McD in any way on this board, at any time, Popps is getting ready to attack you. Probably at the first lead we take in a pre-season game.

Popps' and MileHighMojoe's brand of unquestioning supplication does not make them better fans.

tsiguy96
05-11-2009, 01:20 PM
chicago, with no true #1 or #2 receiver, questionable oline, average-bad defense, is magically #4 in the league, with the addition of jay cutler and jay cutler alone?

he really is the second coming of unielwavre.

broncosteven
05-11-2009, 01:23 PM
You're just lying in wait aren't you?

There's no "contingent" of guys wanting the team to fail there, Skippy. Even the most anti-Josh posters like SoCal will be real fans come gameday.

EVERYBODY BE ON NOTICE: If you have questioned McD in any way on this board, at any time, Popps is getting ready to attack you. Probably at the first lead we take in a pre-season game.

Popps' and MileHighMojoe's brand of unquestioning supplication does not make them better fans.

Does this include me?

broncosteven
05-11-2009, 01:28 PM
chicago, with no true #1 or #2 receiver, questionable oline, average-bad defense, is magically #4 in the league, with the addition of jay cutler and jay cutler alone?

he really is the second coming of unielwavre.

It is not just Jay,

They did upgrade their Oline this year in both FA and draft.

They landed 2 WR's in the Draft that they are slobbering over HIXON style.

DA Bears were a QB and 1 WR away last year from going deep in playoffs last year.

TheChamp24
05-11-2009, 01:29 PM
Chicago at #4 is a joke IMO, they aren't that good by just adding Cutler and some old OT in Pace.

And the bigger joke is saying how good the Chargers will be, saying they'll win 13 games. The talent isn't that good there anymore on defense, and too much on Merriman there.

tsiguy96
05-11-2009, 01:31 PM
It is not just Jay,

They did upgrade their Oline this year in both FA and draft.

They landed 2 WR's in the Draft that they are slobbering over HIXON style.

DA Bears were a QB and 1 WR away last year from going deep in playoffs last year.

they signed orlando pace and his walker. olin kreutz is equally old. rookie WR rarely make impacts, jackson and royal aside, most end up like kelly, sweed, thomas from last year, taking a year or two to get in the swings. regardless of how good forte is, and he really is, they didnt put up many rushing yards last year. their defense is nowhere near what it was and it isnt getting better...

vikings will kill the bears this year.

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 01:36 PM
You do understand that Bowlen was the one who said 'trade Cutler,' not McDaniels.
Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ???

... and you do understand that McDaniels was the reason why Jay asked to be traded, left Denver, and stopped answering his phone. He wouldn't have done that if the HC was anyone else but McDaniels.

Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ??? ;D

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 01:39 PM
Does this include me?

I'm certain my name is on the list... but that's OK with me. If we do win, I'll be happy enough regardless of any efforts to force-feed our helpings of crow.

tsiguy96
05-11-2009, 01:46 PM
... and you do understand that McDaniels was the reason why Jay asked to be traded, left Denver, and stopped answering his phone. He wouldn't have done that if the HC was anyone else but McDaniels.

Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ??? ;D

poor poor jay :(

his feelings were hurt, he better not respond to anyone, including the guy signing his check :(

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 01:56 PM
poor poor jay :(

his feelings were hurt, he better not respond to anyone, including the guy signing his check :(

For a professional athlete, asking to be traded is essentially the same thing as handing in a letter of resignation. Pat Bowlen was no longer going to be signing his check; he wanted someone else to do that.
While Bowlen was the man who made the decision to go ahead and trade Jay, people in general do still lay the responsibility for that on McDaniels because he was the reason why Jay wanted out.

But we've been through all this hundreds of times in recent weeks and there's no need to hijack this thread to rehash it yet again. Regarding the power rankings, I think they've got both the Bears and the Broncos positioned a bit too high.

tsiguy96
05-11-2009, 01:57 PM
For a professional athlete, asking to be traded is essentially the same thing as handing in a letter of resignation.

not if someone owns your contract it isnt. asking to be traded is a professional athletes way of saying "whaaaaaaaaaa"

crush17
05-11-2009, 01:57 PM
wow.
i really cannot stand you BlueFlame.

i sure wish mods could be set to ignore....

bpc
05-11-2009, 01:59 PM
I agree, Chicago is a little high but Cutler is a huge difference maker for them. Combine him with some underrated WR's and a potential pro bowl HB in Forte along with a capable defense, they are going to compete for the NFC this year.

I think McDaniels is smart, I also think he's an arrogant blowhard who has acted like he should be able to throw around weight like he's Bill Parcells.

In the end, we won't win this year and Chicago will. I think that Bowlen knows he married McDaniels, already owes money to Shanny so he won't be going anywhere, any time soon.

I am not rooting for Denver to fail though. I hope McDaniels works out. I would like him to turn Brandstater into a pro bowler, if he's the QB guru he's made out to be and I like that he's brought in some hard working, blue collar, like-able guys. I still have questions about Knowshon though.

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 02:01 PM
wow.
i really cannot stand you BlueFlame.

i sure wish mods could be set to ignore....

I'll try really hard to overcome the onus of your disapproval. (It's not that hard to ignore others. For instance, I see your username and just skip right over the post most of the time.)

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 02:04 PM
not if someone owns your contract it isnt. asking to be traded is a professional athletes way of saying "whaaaaaaaaaa"

Asking to be traded is the customary means of changing one's circumstances for a professional athlete. Many of them do it when they have a perceived grievance or simply don't want to remain with their current franchise.

PRBronco
05-11-2009, 02:07 PM
Are the Bears still planning on using Devin Hester as a receiver? I'm looking forward to seeing how the team responds to Jay dressing him down in front of everyone on national television, a la "WHAT THE **** EDDIE??" in the season finale.

SouthStndJunkie
05-11-2009, 02:14 PM
20th ranked sounds about right for the Broncos.

The Bears should win their division.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-11-2009, 02:42 PM
It is not just Jay,

They did upgrade their Oline this year in both FA and draft.

They landed 2 WR's in the Draft that they are slobbering over HIXON style.

DA Bears were a QB and 1 WR away last year from going deep in playoffs last year.

They upgraded their line? Throwing a lot of money at a decrepit Orlando Pace hardly counts as an upgrade. And if you think Iglesias and Knox (it was Knox right?) are anything all that special, youve become a chicago homer

SonOfLe-loLang
05-11-2009, 02:45 PM
... and you do understand that McDaniels was the reason why Jay asked to be traded, left Denver, and stopped answering his phone. He wouldn't have done that if the HC was anyone else but McDaniels.

Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ??? ;D

Jay Cutler acted like a ****ing baby and i still, till this day, have yet to understand how anyone could come to his defense. And don't give me "trust issues" Thats bull****. He's a very well paid employee in a business where this is common place. not to mention, he bitched to the media without hearing the entire story.

Jay Cutler is a supreme A-hole. Yes, ill miss his talent on the field and would prefer he'd be here, but make no mistake....supreme ahole

UberBroncoMan
05-11-2009, 02:51 PM
To be realistic here... Chicago went 9-7 last year with Orton. This year they've made improvements and now have Cutler along with the NFL'S EASIEST STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE. The Bears also didn't use Earl Bennett last year who was a main target of Jay's at Vandy... so expect that WR to have a coming out year to the tone of 80 receptions and 800-1000 yards and 4-6 TD's.

12 win's is hardly unrealistic as much as I want them to fail so we get a good draft pick.

As for Denver being 20... We're an unknown. Hard to give a high rating to that. Our defense is practically brand new, and our offense has a new QB/RB. Way too many unknowns to make a determination of success.

SportinOne
05-11-2009, 02:57 PM
I like McDaniels. I think he's smart, he doesn't have rabbit-ears, and he's a man of his convictions. He can coach the hell out of the quarterback position, but he may not have a very long honeymoon period.

True on all counts. People are already calling for his head, and as this board proves... a good contingent of "fans" out there will probably be just fine with him failing if it proves their point.

He'll get NO honeymoon period with the fans/media.

That said, Bowlen is also a man of his own convictions. He doesn't need people's approval to run his business. Don't look for him to overreact to slow start.

If we have a slow start we might not win more than 3 games... I'm not trying to be anti-mcdaniels it's just the truth of it with our schedule this year.

BroncoBuff
05-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Regarding the power rankings, I think they've got both the Bears and the Broncos positioned a bit too high.

Agreed ... the Bears WAY too high.

BroncoBuff
05-11-2009, 03:55 PM
To be realistic here... Chicago went 9-7 last year with Orton. This year they've made improvements and now have Cutler along with the NFL'S EASIEST STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE. The Bears also didn't use Earl Bennett last year who was a main target of Jay's at Vandy... so expect that WR to have a coming out year to the tone of 80 receptions and 800-1000 yards and 4-6 TD's.

Exactly ... if Jay's record here of zoning in on draft-classmates Scheffler and B-Marsh are any indication, he'll keep Earl Bennett, his college record setting hook-up, very very busy.

I didn't realize the Bears had such a weak schedule ... they might just bust out. They have a better chance to do so than we do, all things considered. But still ... #4 is ridiculous :oyvey:

The Big E
05-11-2009, 04:07 PM
Don't the Bears have the easiest schedule in the league this year? I know things can change a lot from year-to-year in the NFL, but I think their opponents this year had a cumulative winning percentage of .410 in 2008, or something pathetic like that. Even with that, it's hard to see them that high.

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 04:08 PM
Jay Cutler acted like a ****ing baby and i still, till this day, have yet to understand how anyone could come to his defense. And don't give me "trust issues" Thats bull****. He's a very well paid employee in a business where this is common place. not to mention, he b****ed to the media without hearing the entire story.

Jay Cutler is a supreme A-hole. Yes, ill miss his talent on the field and would prefer he'd be here, but make no mistake....supreme ahole

Some definitely look at things that way. Me, I think there just might have been more than just one "supreme ahole" involved. In fact, there are at least 3 suspects from my pov.

telluride
05-11-2009, 04:17 PM
Let me just point out that this "easiest/hardest schedule" thing means nothing. No one knows how well or poorly any team is going to play next year. Predicting the strength or weaknesses of opponents based on how they did the previous year is absurd.

Another thing that bugs me -- in case you were wondering -- is when writers project a team's success for a coming season based on how they finished the previous season.

DenverBrit
05-11-2009, 04:27 PM
... and you do understand that McDaniels was the reason why Jay asked to be traded, left Denver, and stopped answering his phone.

Jay overreacted.
Players, every year, hear their name mentioned in trade scenarios, can you think of another NFL player who threw the kind of hissy fit Jay did?
He handled it badly, by any standards.
Yes, McDaniels made a mistake discussing potential trade scenarios, but who could have predicted the immature meltdown?

He wouldn't have done that if the HC was anyone else but McDaniels.
Jay wanted out of Denver when Shannny and then Bates were let go.
But regardless, Bowlen has been very generous to Jay and deserved a return phone call. Not liking McDaniels is no excuse.
Jay and Bus Cook engineered the trade, threatening that Cutler would hold his breath until he turned blue......if he didn't get his way.


Jay not liking his coach is grounds to demand a trade??
Christ, if that were so, half the NFL players would be moving every year.

McDaniels started a camp fire, Jay and his agent poured gas on it until it became a raging inferno.......and burned out of control.

Bowlen stepped up and poured water on it.

TheChamp24
05-11-2009, 04:30 PM
Putting the Broncos at 20 is quite a bit generous for us IMO, a lot of people seem to think a lot worse of us. Me, that sounds about right, an 8-8 record again.

As for the Bears, everybody talks about their defense, but they were 21st in yards allowed and 16th in points allowed. They did good against the run, but that is just an average defense. I don't like their offensive playmakers. Forte is a decent RB, but I don't know if he is anything special. A good guy to have though. WR's are questionable, and Devin Hester should just play the role of a speedy slot guy.

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 04:45 PM
Jay overreacted.
Yes, he did. After McDaniels "screwed the pooch" on the whole "trade talks" issue.
Players, every year, hear their name mentioned in trade scenarios, can you think of another NFL player who threw the kind of hissy fit Jay did?
He handled it badly, by any standards.
When was the last time anyone ever heard of trade talks occurring with a scenario of trading a starting QB for a backup?
Yes, McDaniels made a mistake discussing potential trade scenarios, but who could have predicted the immature meltdown?
Perhaps if he had just "manned up" and admitted that he did want Cassel instead of lying about it, the whole thing could have been avoided. Because the issue started with McDaniels, many fans will and do hold him responsible.
Jay wanted out of Denver when Shannny and then Bates were let go.
Yet he still was putting in his own time at the office trying to get to know the new coaches and familiarize himself with a new offensive scheme...
But regardless, Bowlen has been very generous to Jay and deserved a return phone call. Not liking McDaniels is no excuse.
By then, it was too late and Jay had already made an irreversible decision that he wanted out.
Jay and Bus Cook engineered the trade, threatening that Cutler would hold his breath until he turned blue......if he didn't get his way.Jay not liking his coach is grounds to demand a trade??
Seems to me that not wanting to play for a particular coach was the reason why another player refused to play for the team that drafted him #1 overall....
Christ, if that were so, half the NFL players would be moving every year.
I think hostilities aren't usually allowed to fester the way they did between McDaniels and Cutler. Where was Pat (or any adult) when the firestorm began?
McDaniels started a camp fire, Jay and his agent poured gas on it until it became a raging inferno.......and burned out of control.

Bowlen stepped up and poured water on it.
It doesn't matter... McDaniels still started the fire. And some people are still going to lay primary responsibility for its results at his doorstep.

DenverBrit
05-11-2009, 04:50 PM
It doesn't matter... McDaniels still started the fire. And some people are still going to lay primary responsibility for its results at his doorstep.

Including you, even though you know it makes no sense. ;D

tsiguy96
05-11-2009, 04:55 PM
the bears schedule is not as easy as their SOS shows. SOS is obviously a flawed system as it is, but add in 0-32 for the lions and it obviously skews it even more. past success is not a perfect indicator of future success in this league..

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Including you, even though you know it makes no sense. ;D

Yep... you know I do. Because I still believe if McDaniels had handled things differently (more professionally/less like a green rookie) the whole fiasco could have been avoided. And in that case, we might still have a franchise QB rather than going into the season depending on the likes of Kyle Orton and Chris Simms, neither of whom was good enough/healthy enough to consistently keep Brian Griese's behind on the bench.

TDmvp
05-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Yea 20 is pushing it ... When they was talking about this list on espn first thing they said about us was we aint that good ...

wandlc
05-11-2009, 09:46 PM
This board is entertaining. People who do not know either McD or Jay are judging them as if they have absolute knowledge about what happened and about each person involved. I didn't know there were so many omniscient people in the world.

Blueflame
05-11-2009, 09:54 PM
This board is entertaining. People who do not know either McD or Jay are judging them as if they have absolute knowledge about what happened and about each person involved. I didn't know there were so many omniscient people in the world.

If anyone has ever said that they have absolute knowledge, I haven't seen it. People just form and express opinions. It's just a message board, after all.

SoCalBronco
05-11-2009, 09:54 PM
He'll get NO honeymoon period with the fans/media.

Good. That's a fair result.

That said, Bowlen is also a man of his own convictions. He doesn't need people's approval to run his business. Don't look for him to overreact to slow start.

While it is undoubtedly true that, as you say, he doesn't need the public's approval to run his business, he does, however, need the public's money to continue to operate at an acceptable rate of return.

tsiguy96
05-11-2009, 09:58 PM
While it is undoubtedly true that, as you say, he doesn't need the public's approval to run his business, he does, however, need the public's money to continue to operate at an acceptable rate of return.

cant believe people still question bowlens ability to run this business after all these years of success that 20+ other teams would dream for.

as long as the broncos are in denver, they will sell out, even if people like you dont agree with what hes doing.

~Crash~
05-11-2009, 10:34 PM
You're right! It's amazing how Chicago went to number 4 without even playing a game. "Franchise quarterbacks" are surely magical. The other teams in their division should flat give up now to avoid the humiliation of having to play against a "Franchise Quarterback."

you forget they got a little more than that, a LT now health now and Really good RB . and a nice D # 4 is about right .

footstepsfrom#27
05-11-2009, 11:16 PM
If Cutler can lead an offense that puts up 400 points, only a point and a fraction more than a year ago, the Bears should win 12

When Cutler was an untested rookie he took over for Plummer and promptly put up 7 more points a game...as a 4th year guy taking over for the pedestrian Orton...this seems like a given if their defense performs close to last year.

Popps
05-12-2009, 01:10 AM
While it is undoubtedly true that, as you say, he doesn't need the public's approval to run his business, he does, however, need the public's money to continue to operate at an acceptable rate of return.

Well, as much as many around here may be hoping for a drop-off in fan support, I wouldn't count on it. Broncos fans have been through far worse than this. If you've been watching the team for a few decades like I have, this is just another day at the office.

I'll see you in the playoffs, Socal...if you stick around. We'll revisit these days when we return. Trust me.

:thumbs:

Popps
05-12-2009, 01:12 AM
When Cutler was an untested rookie he took over for Plummer and promptly put up 7 more points a game

Yea, well... the franchise also went in the ****ter... from being a competitive team every year to getting embarrassed out of playoff contention and eventually becoming a laughing stock on national television.

We can talk about Cutler's fantasy football stats until the cows come home.

Many of us are ready to start talking about wins again.

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 01:56 AM
Yea, well... the franchise also went in the ****ter... from being a competitive team every year to getting embarrassed out of playoff contention and eventually becoming a laughing stock on national television.

We can talk about Cutler's fantasy football stats until the cows come home.

Many of us are ready to start talking about wins again.
It's intellectual dishonesty to conveniently ignore that had we not had Cutler, with the crap _efense Shanny threw out there we'd have finished far worse...pretty sure you know that since you claim to be a smart guy.

Are you saying Cutler can't generate an extra 1 point a game more than Orton did in Chicago? Because that's the point made by the writer in positioning the Bears where he did.

TonyR
05-12-2009, 07:04 AM
...I also think he's an arrogant blowhard who has acted like he should be able to throw around weight like he's Bill Parcells.

I still have questions about Knowshon though.

Funny how people have this perspective of McD. The guy has been given the responsibility by the owner to run the football team and he's taken it. What should he do, sit back and politely let other people do things their way? He's responsible for the team so he's doing it his way. Isn't that what you would do if you were accountable for the results? What is arrogant about doing your job? I think many are mistaking confidence with arrogance.

As far as your questions about Knowshon, he was the consensus best RB in the draft. What might your questions be?

Beantown Bronco
05-12-2009, 07:24 AM
cant believe people still question bowlens ability to run this business after all these years of success that 20+ other teams would dream for.

Why? Any other person in any other field could be questioned if they were at the top of their game 10 years ago, but have been consistently mediocre or worse since. I don't know about you, but I'd have more than a few people questioning me and my annual performance reviews wouldn't be all peachy.

Beantown Bronco
05-12-2009, 07:27 AM
you forget they got a little more than that, a LT now health now and Really good RB . and a nice D # 4 is about right .

Nobody forgot that. They had at least two of those three variables last year and it didn't result in a #4 ranking. Not even close. What variables are new? That is the question. Other than Cutler, they got a new LT that would've been a clear upgrade a few years ago. Now? We'll have to see about that. Age has a way of catching up to guys very quickly in the NFL.

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 07:50 AM
cant believe people still question bowlens ability to run this business after all these years of success that 20+ other teams would dream for.

as long as the broncos are in denver, they will sell out, even if people like you dont agree with what hes doing.
Hmmm...why indeed? Maybe it's because he never proved he could run any other businesses with any great success apart from his family's money. Or maybe it's his secretive back-room corporate dealings, questionable stock swaps and equity merges he constructed into that odd little shell game he established for his corporate ownership shield. Maybe it's just his suspicious ethical reputation as a borderline con artist playing fast and loose with rules...all of the above?

He hired Shanahan and he inherited Elway. Outside of that he's made plenty of bad decisions including handing Shanny the keys to the vault and opening it up for every Tom, Dick or Travis Henry that walked by. Consider this...if we don't find Terrell Davis in the 6th round of the '95 draft, he's just another owner.

TheChamp24
05-12-2009, 12:04 PM
Yea, well... the franchise also went in the ****ter... from being a competitive team every year to getting embarrassed out of playoff contention and eventually becoming a laughing stock on national television.

We can talk about Cutler's fantasy football stats until the cows come home.

Many of us are ready to start talking about wins again.

I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets if the team does poorly this year. If its utter abysmal, which it could be, it might be very difficult for Bowlen.

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 12:44 PM
I'll see you in the playoffs, Socal...if you stick around. We'll revisit these days when we return. Trust me.

Snake in the grass ... just waiting.

You're pathetic, this private little war you're waging all by yourself.

You and MileHighMojoe are free to engage in your own brand of mindless sycophancy, but those of us with inquiring minds will question the moves being made. We agree with Pat Bowlen that Josh has made rookie mistakes ... We understand that Jerry Angelo dealt exclusively with this kid in the Cutler trade (meaning he's all in charge) ... We point out that trading our 1st for their 2nd - without securing protection for a possible Top 5 pick - is yet another potentially disastrous rookie mistake.

So, you see the difference? You defend everything ... we question everything. Some moves we love, some not so much. But the important point is WE ARE ALL JUST AS GOOD OF FANS AS YOU ARE.

You are the supplicant. You were the last American colonist still flying the British flag, dreaming of a position of authority when the revolution was crushed, and in turn then you could crush those who backed the rebels. You're the Fox News viewer who screams red-faced at his TV, "Hell yeah, Hannity, we ARE the best and greatest country on Earth!" You're the guy who voted for Bush twice and McCain, but then clams up and vigorously nods yes at parties when people praise Obama. You question and criticize the employees all day long - endless posts and threads and polls about how our best players are somehow lacking - Brandon Marshall, DJ Williams, Jay Cutler, on and on. But any questions about management and ownership? You're bellowing "Traitor!" from the mountaintops.

Everyone be prepared - this snake is lying in wait. The first lead we take in pre-season, the first game we win in the regular season, he's gonna attack everybody who had even minimally questioned the very questionable moves made by Josh - myself, SoCal, Blueflame, footsteps, countless others - be ready, he's got a list of links ready somewhere to play his twisted "I told you so" card ... as if he's a "better fan" because he never questioned authority.


You're approach here is everything that's wrong with .... well, everything.

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 12:53 PM
And the worst part of that is that I LIKED Popps right up until Mike was canned :~ohyah!:

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 01:26 PM
Snake in the grass ... just waiting.

You're pathetic, this private little war you're waging all by yourself.

You and MileHighMojoe are free to engage in your own brand of mindless sycophancy, but those of us with inquiring minds will question the moves being made. We agree with Pat Bowlen that Josh has made rookie mistakes ... We understand that Jerry Angelo dealt exclusively with this kid in the Cutler trade (meaning he's all in charge) ... We point out that trading our 1st for their 2nd - without securing protection for a possible Top 5 pick - is yet another potentially disastrous rookie mistake.

So, you see the difference? You defend everything ... we question everything. Some moves we love, some not so much. But the important point is WE ARE ALL JUST AS GOOD OF FANS AS YOU ARE.

You are the supplicant. You were the last American colonist still flying the British flag, dreaming of a position of authority when the revolution was crushed, and in turn then you could crush those who backed the rebels. You're the Fox News viewer who screams red-faced at his TV, "Hell yeah, Hannity, we ARE the best and greatest country on Earth!" You're the guy who voted for Bush twice and McCain, but then clams up and vigorously nods yes at parties when people praise Obama. You question and criticize the employees all day long - endless posts and threads and polls about how our best players are somehow lacking - Brandon Marshall, DJ Williams, Jay Cutler, on and on. But any questions about management and ownership? You're bellowing "Traitor!" from the mountaintops.

Everyone be prepared - this snake is lying in wait. The first lead we take in pre-season, the first game we win in the regular season, he's gonna attack everybody who had even minimally questioned the very questionable moves made by Josh - myself, SoCal, Blueflame, footsteps, countless others - be ready, he's got a list of links ready somewhere to play his twisted "I told you so" card ... as if he's a "better fan" because he never questioned authority.


You're approach here is everything that's wrong with .... well, everything.
:notworthy QFT.

Garcia Bronco
05-12-2009, 03:54 PM
This board is entertaining. People who do not know either McD or Jay are judging them as if they have absolute knowledge about what happened and about each person involved. I didn't know there were so many omniscient people in the world.

Some of us actually do based on where we work and who we work with.

Garcia Bronco
05-12-2009, 03:56 PM
When was the last time anyone ever heard of trade talks occurring with a scenario of trading a starting QB for a backup?


McDaniels never called anyone and the Bucs admitted they did and Bill Belicheck said he never recived an offer like the one the Bucs tossed around because he would have taken it. This is from their mouths. Not un-named sources that work with the league selling wind wheels and foam fingers.

Orange_Beard
05-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Best 8-8 team ever!

AAAA, they are better 8 - 8 team then us.

Popps
05-12-2009, 04:52 PM
Snake in the grass ... just waiting.

You're pathetic, this private little war you're waging all by yourself.
.

Really? Better read the boards there, sport. Not everyone is crying in their beer, like yourself. Some of us have moved on, and actually see some good things in the future for this franchise.

Sorry, you want me to cave in and start weeping like the rest of you tired old hags? Would that make you feel better?


So, you see the difference? You defend everything ... we question everything.

Wrong.

I gave our draft grade a B-. That's clearly thinking we have some issues. I'd probably give our off-season moves a B, maybe a B+. Pretty good... not over, but not perfect.

Maybe you're just not paying attention properly?


You are the supplicant. You were the last American colonist still flying the British flag, dreaming of a position of authority when the revolution was crushed

:rofl:

And you, my friend... are a drama-queen deluxe. Wow.

The first lead we take in pre-season, the first game we win in the regular season, he's gonna attack everybody who had even minimally questioned the very questionable moves made by Josh - myself, SoCal, Blueflame, footsteps, countless others - be ready, he's got a list of links ready somewhere to play his twisted "I told you so" card .

Oh, I just said we'd be revisiting some of these quotes in the future. I fully expect that will be the case, either way... no? It's a message board, dude. Maybe you're just not cut out for it.

Sorry we can't all sign onto your doom/gloom mantra. Some of us can recognize that we've hit a rough patch, and move on as fans.

If you want to spend the rest of your existence bitching and moaning, calling our coach names and predicting failure, have at it. But, when you pull that crybaby **** on a Broncos board, at a certain point... you probably shouldn't be surprised if people grow tired of it.

Overall, maybe you just need to spend a little less time trying to solve the world's (board's) problems. You're starting to sound a little unhealthy about it all.

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 04:57 PM
McDaniels never called anyone and the Bucs admitted they did and Bill Belicheck said he never recived an offer like the one the Bucs tossed around because he would have taken it. This is from their mouths. Not un-named sources that work with the league selling wind wheels and foam fingers.

Wow ... you actually believe that four NFL teams called the Broncos, out of the blue, at the same time, to inquire about trading for our #1 star Pro-Bowl player?

Mark Schlereth has a bridge in Brooklyn he wants to sell you ;D

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 04:58 PM
And you, my friend... are a drama-queen deluxe. Wow.
:curtsey:

We'll revisit this when I return. Trust me.

Popps
05-12-2009, 04:59 PM
:curtsey:

We'll revisit this when I return. Trust me.

When you return?

Are you taking a year off?

Not saying you should, but worth considering... ya know?

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 05:11 PM
When you return?

Are you taking a year off?

Not saying you should, but worth considering... ya know?
LOL

No, I was parroting your "threat" to the rest of us, to SoCal: "We'll revisit this when we return. Trust me."

That's pretty awful, Skippy. You're threatening to assail your fellow fans with an after-the-fact "I told you so," simply because we dared question the (clearly questionable) moves being made. Even though Bowlen himself said Josh has made rookie mistakes. You're just lying in wait, a snake in the grass. , ready to fight this war that you alone are waging. I hope you attack Bowlen after we win a game, and hammer on him with an "I told you so" too.

So you gave this draft a B-plus? Well, PARDON ME!

Dude, B-plus for a draft with two 1st-rounders and two 2nd-rounders is not so hot. LMAO, you prove you're righteous "skepticism" by giving the draft a B-plus ... ROFL!

Popps
05-12-2009, 05:14 PM
LOL

Dude, B-plus for a draft with two 1st-rounders and two 2nd-rounders is not so hot. LMAO, you prove you're righteous "skepticism" by giving the draft a B-plus ... ROFL!


B Minus, bro... B M I N U S.

How did you pass the BAR? You no pay attention good.

Popps
05-12-2009, 05:16 PM
LOL

You're threatening to assail your fellow fans with an after-the-fact "I told you so," simply because we dared question the (clearly questionable) moves being made.

Now, you know damned well I'm not going to "assail" someone like Rohirrim, who has had a mixed view of this. He's expressed displeasure with some moves, and supported others.

I'm not going to "assail" him. He's being a rational, logical fan... seeing both sides of this the best he can and retaining hope for the future.

I will, however... enjoy blasting back at the sad-sack mother****ers who have basically become nothing but trolls around here, ripping my favorite football team 24/7.

You may not be too sharp, but even you can discern between those two groups of people.

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 05:36 PM
Now, you know damned well I'm not going to "assail" someone like Rohirrim, who has had a mixed view of this. He's expressed displeasure with some moves, and supported others.

I'm not going to "assail" him. He's being a rational, logical fan... seeing both sides of this the best he can and retaining hope for the future.

I will, however... enjoy blasting back at the sad-sack mother****ers who have basically become nothing but trolls around here, ripping my favorite football team 24/7.

You may not be too sharp, but even you can discern between those two groups of people.

There is a gigantic...massive.... difference between "ripping our (not just your) favorite football team" and "questioning McDaniels and some of the moves he's made". I'm doing the latter; not the former.

I'm a Broncos fan. I am not a McDaniels fan. One does not have to love the new HC and unconditionally support him and every choice he makes in order to love the Broncos.

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 05:43 PM
Now, you know damned well I'm not going to "assail" someone like Rohirrim, who has had a mixed view of this. He's expressed displeasure with some moves, and supported others.
That shows how far apart we really are .... I think Rohirrim is right out there with you in bowing to management at all costs. Drek too. And those are two of the 5 or 6 guys I most respect on the board. The difference is, they would never question mine or SoCal's or anybody else's fan status ... they're not hunkering down ready to strike at all or us at the first sign of victory.

All the more reason I respect them, all the more reason you keep ticking me off :moody:


And you're right about the B-minus, not B-plus ... that's more reasonable. Other than not inserting a clause with the Seahawks that they receive the lower of the two picks in the Alphonso trade (an enormous rookie mistake), I haven't bashed the draft. Some of the guys, like Bruton, McKinley, Olsen, even Quinn I'm okay with because it appears Josh is filling the roster with a certain kind of player, the kind of player he likes and he can work with. Guys like Lonie Paxton. I even kind of understand his very small draft board because of this.

This kid has made some serious front office blunders, there can be little question his inexperience in the front office has cost us dearly. That said, I have NEVER questioned his coaching, or his excellence on the field. And now is gravy-time ... there's no more damage to be done in the front office, we're done there for this season.

From here on in, it's ALL on the field, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 05:47 PM
I'm a Broncos fan. I am not a McDaniels fan. One does not have to love the new HC and unconditionally support him and every choice he makes in order to love the Broncos.

Popps ... how about I just say "ditto" to this post 100 times over, and you and I stop discussing off-field stuff altogether. Deal?

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 06:08 PM
McDaniels never called anyone and the Bucs admitted they did and Bill Belicheck said he never recived an offer like the one the Bucs tossed around because he would have taken it. This is from their mouths. Not un-named sources that work with the league selling wind wheels and foam fingers.
Well if Bill Belicheat says it you know it's got to be true. Good call... ROFL!

Popps
05-12-2009, 06:16 PM
Popps ... how about I just say "ditto" to this post 100 times over, and you and I stop discussing off-field stuff altogether. Deal?

It's one thing to talk about questioning our head coach, it's another to feign a complete disdain for him and any player he's associated with.

You can ditto that stupid bull**** all you want. I'm not going to stop you. Maybe you and she can call us the Denver Cheaters together, or make pledges that you'll never buy any team gear, or burn jerseys or something?

Popps
05-12-2009, 06:19 PM
That shows how far apart we really are .... I think Rohirrim is right out there with you in bowing to management at all costs. .

Again, Buff... I'm not sure if it's just a reading issue, or you don't pay attention well. You need to reevaluate his posts on the draft. He was not happy.

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 06:23 PM
There is a gigantic...massive.... difference between "ripping our (not just your) favorite football team" and "questioning McDaniels and some of the moves he's made". I'm doing the latter; not the former.

I'm a Broncos fan. I am not a McDaniels fan. One does not have to love the new HC and unconditionally support him and every choice he makes in order to love the Broncos.
Rep. I'm sure Popps does need a woman to set him straight Blue but be careful cuz I'm betting he's got issues with strong willed females who speak their mind instead of stroking his ego. But you called it...McD and the Broncos are two different things entirely. I liken this entire mess to when Jerry Jones came charging in here like a bull in a china cabinet and fired Landry without any class, then proceeded to put his feet up on the dining room table and crap all over the living room rug, wondering all the while why people took him for a dumb**** Arkansas hillbilly. Jones proved he could get lucky fast when he found Johnson, then went from zero to stupid in one night and screwed the pooch and the team from then till now with his own ego manifestation.

Little Hoodie doesn't quite remind me of Jimmy Johnson yet. How 'bout you?

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 06:34 PM
Rep. I'm sure Popps does need a woman to set him straight Blue but be careful cuz I'm betting he's got issues with strong willed females who speak their mind instead of stroking his ego. But you called it...McD and the Broncos are two different things entirely. I liken this entire mess to when Jerry Jones came charging in here like a bull in a china cabinet and fired Landry without any class, then proceeded to put his feet up on the dining room table and crap all over the living room rug, wondering all the while why people took him for a dumb**** Arkansas hillbilly. Jones proved he could get lucky fast when he found Johnson, then went from zero to stupid in one night and screwed the pooch and the team from then till now with his own ego manifestation.

Little Hoodie doesn't quite remind me of Jimmy Johnson yet. How 'bout you?

It's absolutely nothing new for Popps to be taking issue with something I posted.... it's pretty much typical by now. :)

"Little Hoodie" seems to me to be in way over his head, but far to arrogant (despite his lack of experience) to perceive that or definitely to acknowledge it. His choice of role models to emulate (Belicheat) leaves something to be desired as well, imho. The lesson he appears to not have learned yet is that respect and esteem are things that have to be earned; they're not "his due" for existing. Oh, and I think he needs to learn some Broncos history and tradition and develop some respect for it rather than trying to toss it all out and install Patriots history v.2 in Denver. A valid question would be if he even knows anything at all about some of those names on the Ring of Fame. Does he know why #44 is retired? Maybe.... or maybe not.

Popps
05-12-2009, 06:35 PM
Rep. I'm sure Popps does need a woman to set him straight Blue but be careful cuz I'm betting he's got issues with strong willed females

You obviously haven't met my wife. Then again, my wife isn't deliberately obtuse, either. Then again... we're really not supposed to be talking about those kinds of family issues, are we Footsteps?

I liken this entire mess to when Jerry Jones came charging in here like a bull

In here? You a Cowboys fan? That would explain your disdain for all things Broncos.

Anyway... great Jerry Jones analogy. Comparing McDaniels to an owner who came in and won a few Superbowls.

I hope you're right.

See, you're optimistic. You just don't know it. Turn that frown upside down, bro!

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 06:38 PM
It's one thing to talk about questioning our head coach, it's another to feign a complete disdain for him and any player he's associated with.

You can ditto that stupid bull**** all you want. I'm not going to stop you. Maybe you and she can call us the Denver Cheaters together, or make pledges that you'll never buy any team gear, or burn jerseys or something?

Translation: "Here's your KoolAid, Buff."

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/kool-aidgif.jpg

"Drink up or I'll call you a bad fan again."

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 06:41 PM
It's absolutely nothing new for Popps to be taking issue with something I posted.... it's pretty much typical by now. :)

"Little Hoodie" seems to me to be in way over his head, but far to arrogant (despite his lack of experience) to perceive that or definitely to acknowledge it. His choice of role models to emulate (Belicheat) leaves something to be desired as well, imho. The lesson he appears to not have learned yet is that respect and esteem are things that have to be earned; they're not "his due" for existing. Oh, and I think he needs to learn some Broncos history and tradition and develop some respect for it rather than trying to toss it all out and install Patriots history v.2 in Denver. A valid question would be if he even knows anything at all about some of those names on the Ring of Fame. Does he know why #44 is retired? Maybe.... or maybe not.
Well when you're left with Belicheat as your role model you're going to get some disfunctional behavior no doubt...

Popps
05-12-2009, 06:42 PM
"Drink up or I'll call you a bad fan again."

Nah, Blueflame.

Some fans can question team moves intelligently and with some sense of objectivity, but still retaining the demeanor of a fan.

You're nothing but a troll who spends all day ripping the franchise on this board.

In other words, you and Bob are basically the same person now. So, don't mistake what you're doing as any sort of analysis or fan input. You're just trolling the board, ripping the team.

There ARE plenty of people here seeing the pros and cons of what's going on. You're just not one of them.

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 06:55 PM
You obviously haven't met my wife. Then again, my wife isn't deliberately obtuse, either. Then again... we're really not supposed to be talking about those kinds of family issues, are we Footsteps?
How would I know what kind of family issues you talk about?
In here? You a Cowboys fan? That would explain your disdain for all things Broncos.
"Here"=Dallas...Well Arlington actually...where I live...not a secret that I hate the Crapboys either.
Anyway... great Jerry Jones analogy. Comparing McDaniels to an owner who came in and won a few Superbowls.
I was comparing their arrogance and how they dealt with people when coming into a new situation. As you can see...not much winning of anything going on around her for the last 14 years...once Johnson's team was gone Jones became just another garden variety megalomaniac.

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 06:55 PM
Nah, Blueflame.

Some fans can question team moves intelligently and with some sense of objectivity, but still retaining the demeanor of a fan.

You're nothing but a troll who spends all day ripping the franchise on this board.

In other words, you and Bob are basically the same person now. So, don't mistake what you're doing as any sort of analysis or fan input. You're just trolling the board, ripping the team.

There ARE plenty of people here seeing the pros and cons of what's going on. You're just not one of them.

Oooohhh... the "troll" card. I'm impressed. (Not.)

Excuse me, but I was unaware that McDaniels = "the franchise". That's how things would have to be defined for your accusation to be correct.

Oh, and now McDaniels = "the team" too?

Maybe it's easier to define what McDaniels isn't... to you. Seems like he's everything. :P

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 07:01 PM
Oooohhh... the "troll" card. I'm impressed. (Not.)

Excuse me, but I was unaware that McDaniels = "the franchise". That's how things would have to be defined for your accusation to be correct.

Oh, and now McDaniels = "the team" too?

Maybe it's easier to define what McDaniels isn't... to you. Seems like he's everything. :P
What did I tell ya?

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 07:03 PM
Again, Buff... I'm not sure if it's just a reading issue, or you don't pay attention well. You need to reevaluate his posts on the draft. He was not happy.

Why do you have to pepper everything with these insults? Resorting to such hostile attacks and all the 4-asterisked words, that merely serves to underscore insecurity in your position.

TonyR
05-12-2009, 07:07 PM
You...are free to engage in your own brand of mindless sycophancy, but those of us with inquiring minds will question the moves being made.

...You defend everything ... we question everything. Some moves we love, some not so much.

...You're (sic) approach here is everything that's wrong with .... well, everything.

Buff, to be fair, some of the over the top Negative Nellies are just as bad as your so-called sycophants.

I have absolutely no problem with people questioning things the team is doing. What I do have a problem with is the manner in which some people do it. The depth of the pessimism; the childish, derogatory names for McDaniels; the drama queen nature of some of the negativity; and the pining for Jay Cutler, to name a few things.

One "side" isn't necessarily more "right" or "wrong" than the other. Both extremes have their faults.

You've been reasonable. Your point about McD having too much power to soon certainly has it's merits, particularly if you point the blame for this at Pat Bowlen rather than McD himself. But many others have been far less reasonable and I think some of the people you've called out are often a good counterbalance to the negativity, and probably take an overly positive position in defense of their more positive outlook.

Regardless, when people are willing to be at least somewhat open minded it makes for some good discussion.

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 07:08 PM
Some fans can question team moves intelligently and with some sense of objectivity, but still retaining the demeanor of a fan.

You've never actually met one, but you know they exist, right? :~ohyah!:

Blue has alotta courage, Popps, courage I don't think you'll ever have. It takes guts to go where she goes. And to be honest, there SHOULD be some scrutiny of McD in these touchy areas, After all, he WAS the O-Coordinator on a team that stole opponents' defensive signals. For one year of that scandal, he called the plays ... so he MUST have known what the defense was doing.

Thus, McDaniels was knee-deep in the biggest scandal in league history.

And now he's the head coach of the Denver Broncos.

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 07:09 PM
It's one thing to talk about questioning our head coach, it's another to feign a complete disdain for him and any player he's associated with.
Feign?
You can ditto that stupid bull**** all you want. I'm not going to stop you. Maybe you and she can call us the Denver Cheaters together, or make pledges that you'll never buy any team gear, or burn jerseys or something?
Hilarious!

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 07:14 PM
After all, he WAS the O-Coordinator on a team that stole opponents' defensive signals. For one year of that scandal, he called the plays ... so he MUST have known what the defense was doing.

Thus, McDaniels was knee-deep in the biggest scandal in league history.

And now he's the head coach of the Denver Broncos.
Well Pat said he was excited about his "vision" did he not?

Punisher
05-12-2009, 07:22 PM
:oyvey: Everyones jumping on the bear ban wagon :oyvey:

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 07:27 PM
Buff, to be fair, some of the over the top Negative Nellies are just as bad as your so-called sycophants.

I have absolutely no problem with people questioning things the team is doing. What I do have a problem with is the manner in which some people do it. The depth of the pessimism; the childish, derogatory names for McDaniels; the drama queen nature of some of the negativity; and the pining for Jay Cutler, to name a few things.
Okay, agreed on the name-calling. Do you agree on all the 4-asterisked "words"? While I don't personally call Josh names, I admit I do "pine" for Jay Cutler. I'm tellin' ya T, losing Jay felt a whole lot like losing those 80s Super Bowls ... it was the same hole in the stomach for a week.


You've been reasonable. Your point about McD having too much power to soon certainly has it's merits, particularly if you point the blame for this at Pat Bowlen rather than McD himself.
Thanks, I did say it's not McD's fault for having so much power, all of us try to maximize our power and influence on a regular basis, that's just human nature. It fell on Bowlen to reign him in, and he chose not to. Instead he fired the Goodmans, which I think was a big mistake.

I think Pat fell back into his comfort zone ... in dealing with just one authority - Reeves over Beake, Shanahan over Sundquist, and now Josh over Brian.

Hopefully the worst of the front office inexperience is behind us.


But many others have been far less reasonable and I think some of the people you've called out are often a good counterbalance to the negativity, and probably take an overly positive position in defense of their more positive outlook.
They're being "overly positive" ... to forge a heavier counterweight to the negativity? Actually I'll buy that. Again, that's just human nature, and I'm a sucker for "human nature" arguments.

But that doesn't explain Popps, who is clearly lying-in-wait to pounce on all of us skeptics. That's divisive, and rabidly hostile. I can't get past questioning people's fan status. We're ALL fans, equal in our love for the team.

Like I said above, I love Josh as an offensive coach, and "I'm very much looking forward to" them getting their arses on the damn field.




(By the way, touche on the (sic), good sir .... :~ohyah!:)

BroncoBuff
05-12-2009, 07:30 PM
Well Pat said he was excited about his "vision" did he not?

Ohhh ... THAT'S the vision he was talking about? ROFL!

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 07:30 PM
Feign?

Hilarious!

Popps can ask Meck about the gear I've been a part of burning. (Raiders stuff & Chiefs stuff... acquired at thrift shops or yard sales for the express purpose of a "sacrifice to the football gods"). Heck, we even sacrificed a Raider shirt in the tailgate lot before the Saints game.

Punisher
05-12-2009, 07:32 PM
Anyone have the Power Rankings for Last year about this time?

Popps
05-12-2009, 07:41 PM
How would I know what kind of family issues you talk about? .

Oh, you just got a little personal. Not a surprise. Maybe we can stick to football, not the women in our lives. What do you say, sport?

As you can see...not much winning of anything going on around her for the last 14 years

Yea, I can relate. Only a decade in our case, but I can relate.

GreatBronco16
05-12-2009, 07:42 PM
... and you do understand that McDaniels was the reason why Jay asked to be traded, left Denver, and stopped answering his phone. He wouldn't have done that if the HC was anyone else but McDaniels.

Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ??? ;D


And you do understand that moments after it's announce that he had been traded, he publicly states that "I never wanted to be traded", and the famous, "I never wanted it to get this far"

Why is that so hard for some to grasp? ??? ;D

Popps
05-12-2009, 07:44 PM
Excuse me, but I was unaware that McDaniels = "the franchise". P

Yea, you just hate our coach, our draft, any players not selected by Shanahan, our current players' team gear, our owner.... what am I forgetting?

Anyway, like I said... you and Bob can get together and think of new names to call our team... the Patriots West, the Denver Cheaters... you guys will come up with something.

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 07:57 PM
Yea, you just hate our coach, our draft, any players not selected by Shanahan, our current players' team gear, our owner.... what am I forgetting?

Anyway, like I said... you and Bob can get together and think of new names to call our team... the Patriots West, the Denver Cheaters... you guys will come up with something.

I think our coach is arrogant, inexperienced and in over his head. I think he made rookie mistakes with our draft. I think he wasted a lot of money on scrub FAs, some of whom won't make it through roster cuts (we have what? 90 players signed currently. We have to cut that to 53). I won't buy current players' jerseys because free agency means that said player may be in another city at any time, which means wasted fan $$. I worry about the health of an owner who repeatedly says he's going to do one thing and does the polar opposite weeks later. He's no spring chicken and short term memory loss could be a sign of a serious problem that needs medical attention.

I have never met... and most likely will never meet.... Bob, barely acknowledge his presence here, and have no desire whatsoever to "get together with him" for any reason. Nice try, but.... FAIL.

Inkana7
05-12-2009, 08:02 PM
No, not fail. He made an excellent point. Slap a Chiefs jersey on you and what you've been saying for the past two months is pretty much Bobo.

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 08:07 PM
No, not fail. He made an excellent point. Slap a Chiefs jersey on you and what you've been saying for the past two months is pretty much Bobo.

So questioning McDaniels or anything he does automatically and by osmosis transforms one into a Chiefs fan? Interesting. Better let the Chiefs organization know that so they can mount an anti-McDaniels public relations blitz.

Tombstone RJ
05-12-2009, 08:13 PM
Anyone have the Power Rankings for Last year about this time?

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/05/02/rankings/

DBroncos4life
05-12-2009, 08:19 PM
I'm shocked that anyone would be surprised by this, with Cutler I wouldn't think we would be higher then 15th with all the unknown about this team (talent wise on D) and new coaching schemes. 20th really doesn't seem that bad. It doesn't mean we won't go out there and prove people wrong about our team, it just means writers don't think Orton is the guy.

Tombstone RJ
05-12-2009, 08:24 PM
I'm shocked that anyone would be surprised by this, with Cutler I wouldn't think we would be higher then 15th with all the unknown about this team (talent wise on D) and new coaching schemes. 20th really doesn't seem that bad. It doesn't mean we won't go out there and prove people wrong about our team, it just means writers don't think Orton is the guy.

Old Petey had the Broncos ranked 23 at this time last year, with Jay the-all-world-QB-who-now-has-no-equal-because-he's-not-a-Bronco-anymore Cutler.

DBroncos4life
05-12-2009, 08:26 PM
Old Petey had the Broncos ranked 23 at this time last year, with Jay the-all-world-QB-who-now-has-no-equal-because-he's-not-a-Bronco-anymore Cutler.

That explains the huge jump for the Bears after Cutlers Pro Bowl year instead of coming off his second season with us.

Tombstone RJ
05-12-2009, 08:28 PM
Wow, was old Pete wrong here:

25. Chicago. It's become fairly easy and fashionable to pile on the Bears for going three straight drafts -- 28 picks in all -- without picking a quarterback, despite going three consecutive years in the NFL's bottom quartile in team quarterback rating.

Beginning on Oct. 9 the Bears will play five top-10-caliber defenses in a seven-game midseason stretch (Vikes, Titans, Packers, Vikes, Jags), and by the end of that period I'll be stunned if Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton don't have every Chicago fan looking skyward and asking, "Why didn't we draft Chad Henne in the second round?''

You also have to be worried about the health and the holdout of Brian Urlacher, which is quite a dilemma. Do you pay a guy who's such a great leader but who also might be entering a fragile state of health? Lovie Smith will have to lord over an unsettled team.

DBroncos4life
05-12-2009, 08:32 PM
So the Bears without Cutler got a 25 ranking and moved up 21 spots to 4 with Cutler eh? Thats a huge jump for just one player.

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 08:33 PM
Old Petey had the Broncos ranked 23 at this time last year, with Jay the-all-world-QB-who-now-has-no-equal-because-he's-not-a-Bronco-anymore Cutler.

Looks to me like they were ranked lower due to Marshall's injury/suspension status. At that time, no one knew Eddie Royal was going to be such a stud so we looked from that perspective to be vulnerable at WR. Who knew it was really RB that would be problematic.

Tombstone RJ
05-12-2009, 08:45 PM
Looks to me like they were ranked lower due to Marshall's injury/suspension status. At that time, no one knew Eddie Royal was going to be such a stud so we looked from that perspective to be vulnerable at WR. Who knew it was really RB that would be problematic.

Blue, wanna get nekid together?

skunk
05-12-2009, 09:38 PM
i think you are in over your head blueflame

Popps
05-12-2009, 09:43 PM
I have never met... and most likely will never meet.... Bob.

Don't rule it out. You guys have a lot in common. Plus, he fixes computers.

http://www.king-mag.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/itdept.jpg

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 10:11 PM
i think you are in over your head blueflame

There's never been anything here on the Mane that I wasn't fully capable of handling, Skunk.

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 10:13 PM
Blue, wanna get nekid together?

Tell ya what... if Meck ever does a "tubgate" again, I'd be glad to get semi-nekid with some OM'ers...

GreatBronco16
05-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Tell ya what... if Meck ever does a "tubgate" again, I'd be glad to get semi-nekid with some OM'ers...

Just who are some of these omaners???

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Don't rule it out. You guys have a lot in common. Plus, he fixes computers.



You just make a career out of being wrong, don't you? Ha! I have absolutely nothing in common with Bob. And if my computer breaks, I'll just buy a new one, thank you very much.

Dagmar
05-12-2009, 10:22 PM
Well. Reading this thread made me move the orangemane out of my daily bookmarks for the 1st time since I quit cold turkey after the season (only to be dragged back in when Shanny was fired).

Every thread is the ****ing same. Even mods are doing it.

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 10:28 PM
Just who are some of these omaners???

Meck77 for one... I've met a lot of really awesome people at OM Weekend over the years.

SoCalBronco
05-12-2009, 10:44 PM
Well. Reading this thread made me move the orangemane out of my daily bookmarks for the 1st time since I quit cold turkey after the season (only to be dragged back in when Shanny was fired).

Every thread is the ****ing same. Even mods are doing it.

Hey, its the offseason, what else are we going to talk about? :)

Blueflame
05-12-2009, 10:53 PM
Well. Reading this thread made me move the orangemane out of my daily bookmarks for the 1st time since I quit cold turkey after the season (only to be dragged back in when Shanny was fired).

Every thread is the ****ing same. Even mods are doing it.

"Even mods" are doing what? Replying to posts directed towards them? Engaging in discussion? And why not? Because we're mods, we're not allowed to have opinions? ??? 'Fraid I don't understand where you're coming from with this (leaving because there's no football news to discuss in early May) at all.

footstepsfrom#27
05-12-2009, 11:08 PM
Well. Reading this thread made me move the orangemane out of my daily bookmarks for the 1st time since I quit cold turkey after the season (only to be dragged back in when Shanny was fired).

Every thread is the ****ing same. Even mods are doing it.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/71hOnooU-wQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/71hOnooU-wQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Cito Pelon
05-13-2009, 07:55 AM
Snake in the grass ... just waiting.

You're pathetic, this private little war you're waging all by yourself.

You and MileHighMojoe are free to engage in your own brand of mindless sycophancy, but those of us with inquiring minds will question the moves being made. We agree with Pat Bowlen that Josh has made rookie mistakes ... We understand that Jerry Angelo dealt exclusively with this kid in the Cutler trade (meaning he's all in charge) ... We point out that trading our 1st for their 2nd - without securing protection for a possible Top 5 pick - is yet another potentially disastrous rookie mistake.

So, you see the difference? You defend everything ... we question everything. Some moves we love, some not so much. But the important point is WE ARE ALL JUST AS GOOD OF FANS AS YOU ARE.

You are the supplicant. You were the last American colonist still flying the British flag, dreaming of a position of authority when the revolution was crushed, and in turn then you could crush those who backed the rebels. You're the Fox News viewer who screams red-faced at his TV, "Hell yeah, Hannity, we ARE the best and greatest country on Earth!" You're the guy who voted for Bush twice and McCain, but then clams up and vigorously nods yes at parties when people praise Obama. You question and criticize the employees all day long - endless posts and threads and polls about how our best players are somehow lacking - Brandon Marshall, DJ Williams, Jay Cutler, on and on. But any questions about management and ownership? You're bellowing "Traitor!" from the mountaintops.

Everyone be prepared - this snake is lying in wait. The first lead we take in pre-season, the first game we win in the regular season, he's gonna attack everybody who had even minimally questioned the very questionable moves made by Josh - myself, SoCal, Blueflame, footsteps, countless others - be ready, he's got a list of links ready somewhere to play his twisted "I told you so" card ... as if he's a "better fan" because he never questioned authority.

You're approach here is everything that's wrong with .... well, everything.

Too bad that's incorrect. But, it's typical of you group that are slamming McD. You continually have your facts wrong and chronology wrong.

That's a hallmark of hysterical minds - not inquiring minds.

Cito Pelon
05-13-2009, 08:02 AM
Wow ... you actually believe that four NFL teams called the Broncos, out of the blue, at the same time, to inquire about trading for our #1 star Pro-Bowl player?

Mark Schlereth has a bridge in Brooklyn he wants to sell you ;D

Do you actually believe four NFL teams talked to the Broncos?

See, this is the hysterical mind at work.

What was reported as no more than two teams has become in your hysterical mind four teams.

BroncoBuff
05-13-2009, 09:53 AM
Do you actually believe four NFL teams talked to the Broncos?
Do you actually believe all these reporters just "made up" the stories?


See, this is the hysterical mind at work.
Yes, the hysterical mind who thinks everyone in the media is lying to him ... it's a conspiracy Cito!


What was reported as no more than two teams has become in your hysterical mind four teams.
"No more than two," are you nuts? Tampa, NE, Minnesota and Detroit ... all were reported to have discussed a Cutler trade before Cutler knew about it, and Cleveland was added to the list later.

I'm not saying I know all these reports are correct, I'm just saying if you think it was just Minnesota and Detroit, you're a very gullible person. Mark Schlereth said, "if you believe it was just a coincidence that three teams called Denver on the same week to ask about their star quarterback, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you." He wasn't counting New England, because apparently NE did not talk directly to Denver, but were reported to have discussed the trade with the other teams ... so I guess maybe I should have said three talked "directly with Denver," but four teams total reportedly talked deal before Jay knew anything.


And as far as the stuff about Jerry Angelo ... dude please. Angelo did a lengthy interview post-trade wherein he mentioned McDaniels name about 30 times, never said a word about Xanders.

Even a management apologist like Popps knows this ... he was bragging that McD could "multi-task" because he left the trade negotiations to go down on the field for practice, then came back to the phone later. Popps said something about "keeping his cool." :oyvey:

Cito Pelon
05-13-2009, 11:11 AM
Do you actually believe all these reporters just "made up" the stories?



Yes, the hysterical mind who thinks everyone in the media is lying to him ... it's a conspiracy Cito!



"No more than two," are you nuts? Tampa, NE, Minnesota and Detroit ... all were reported to have discussed a Cutler trade before Cutler knew about it, and Cleveland was added to the list later.

I'm not saying I know all these reports are correct, I'm just saying if you think it was just Minnesota and Detroit, you're a very gullible person. Mark Schlereth said, "if you believe it was just a coincidence that three teams called Denver on the same week to ask about their star quarterback, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you." He wasn't counting New England, because apparently NE did not talk directly to Denver, but were reported to have discussed the trade with the other teams ... so I guess maybe I should have said three talked "directly with Denver," but four teams total reportedly talked deal before Jay knew anything.


And as far as the stuff about Jerry Angelo ... dude please. Angelo did a lengthy interview post-trade wherein he mentioned McDaniels name about 30 times, never said a word about Xanders.

Even a management apologist like Popps knows this ... he was bragging that McD could "multi-task" because he left the trade negotiations to go down on the field for practice, then came back to the phone later. Popps said something about "keeping his cool." :oyvey:

There you go with the hysterics again. Two teams talked to the Broncos from media reports - TB and Det. Minny had an internal debate, they didn't talk to the Broncos. Cleveland, haha.

And there you go again with the hysterics concerning the Angelo interview post-trade. Get a grip.

Punisher
05-13-2009, 12:00 PM
You

Cito Pelon
05-14-2009, 03:20 PM
Do you actually believe all these reporters just "made up" the stories?



Yes, the hysterical mind who thinks everyone in the media is lying to him ... it's a conspiracy Cito!



"No more than two," are you nuts? Tampa, NE, Minnesota and Detroit ... all were reported to have discussed a Cutler trade before Cutler knew about it, and Cleveland was added to the list later.

I'm not saying I know all these reports are correct, I'm just saying if you think it was just Minnesota and Detroit, you're a very gullible person. Mark Schlereth said, "if you believe it was just a coincidence that three teams called Denver on the same week to ask about their star quarterback, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you." He wasn't counting New England, because apparently NE did not talk directly to Denver, but were reported to have discussed the trade with the other teams ... so I guess maybe I should have said three talked "directly with Denver," but four teams total reportedly talked deal before Jay knew anything.


And as far as the stuff about Jerry Angelo ... dude please. Angelo did a lengthy interview post-trade wherein he mentioned McDaniels name about 30 times, never said a word about Xanders.

Even a management apologist like Popps knows this ... he was bragging that McD could "multi-task" because he left the trade negotiations to go down on the field for practice, then came back to the phone later. Popps said something about "keeping his cool." :oyvey:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=79371&highlight=angelo

This shows what a hysterical fool you are, Buff.

Your hysterical mind interprets things much differently than a normal sane mind.

There's a clinical name for it - hysterical memory loss. You have a variation of it where facts are either forgotten or madeup, whichever makes you look like the hero.

BroncoBuff
05-14-2009, 05:18 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=79371&highlight=angelo

This shows what a hysterical fool you are, Buff. Your hysterical mind interprets things much differently than a normal sane mind. There's a clinical name for it - hysterical memory loss. You have a variation of it where facts are either forgotten or madeup, whichever makes you look like the hero.

What the heck is the matter with you ... did you even read that link?

When the deal was on the line, Angelo communicated directly with Josh. And Josh only ... this quote From your own link:
The Bears were sure the deal was collapsing Thursday afternoon, because the Broncos weren't answering phone calls, e-mails or texts. GM Jerry Angelo thought he'd gotten the rug pulled out from underneath him. Angelo hadn't heard from the Broncos for about three hours, and got so nervous by mid-afternoon Chicago time that he sent McDaniels a text message that said, in effect, "We gotta get this done. What's it gonna take for the Bears to win this?''
Done and done.

I don't know why you're defending such a well-settled point, that McD is making the decisions here. Maybe he "consults" with Xanders on the decision, but then again we know Mike "consulted" with Sundquist before Mike made the decisions, too.


And BTW, I was referring to the lengthy LIVE announcement of the trade on ESPN as the Bears announced the trade, wherein Angelo mentioned Josh's name at least 6-7 times ... but never once uttered the word "Xanders."



EVEN MORE .... not needed, but here's the next paragraph:
But the Broncos weren't ignoring Angelo, and they weren't working another team for a better deal. McDaniels told Xanders and the rest of the football people in the building that they weren't stopping business following owner Pat Bowlen's declaration that there was an open market for Cutler. Workouts would continue with McDaniels around; coaches meetings would go on as normal.

You see? "McDaniels told Xanders," and the rest of the people "in the building." McD is the boss in the front office. Period.

DenverBrit
05-14-2009, 07:23 PM
You see? "McDaniels told Xanders," and the rest of the people "in the building." McD is the boss in the front office. Period.

But the Broncos weren't ignoring Angelo, and they weren't working another team for a better deal. McDaniels told Xanders and the rest of the football people in the building that they weren't stopping business following owner Pat Bowlen's declaration that there was an open market for Cutler. Workouts would continue with McDaniels around; coaches meetings would go on as normal.
There has never been any doubt as to who is in charge of football operations, and that's what the paragraph discusses.
That quote gives no indication that McDaniels is the 'boss in the front office,' the 'business' mentioned would be Team activities.

Cito Pelon
05-15-2009, 07:49 AM
What the heck is the matter with you ... did you even read that link?

When the deal was on the line, Angelo communicated directly with Josh. And Josh only ... this quote From your own link:

Done and done.

I don't know why you're defending such a well-settled point, that McD is making the decisions here. Maybe he "consults" with Xanders on the decision, but then again we know Mike "consulted" with Sundquist before Mike made the decisions, too.


And BTW, I was referring to the lengthy LIVE announcement of the trade on ESPN as the Bears announced the trade, wherein Angelo mentioned Josh's name at least 6-7 times ... but never once uttered the word "Xanders."



EVEN MORE .... not needed, but here's the next paragraph:


You see? "McDaniels told Xanders," and the rest of the people "in the building." McD is the boss in the front office. Period.

An hysterical mind can surely misinterpret that article to mean McD and McD alone made the trade decisions. As you just did. I don't expect someone in the grip of hysteria, as you are, to make a sane interpretation.

I bet this LIVE announcement and what ensued in it has been misinterpreted through your hysterical memory loss also.

wandlc
05-15-2009, 06:30 PM
Some of us actually do based on where we work and who we work with.

Some? as in who on this board? I haven't read anything from any poster that leads me to believe that they have this type of access to knowledge about this off season.