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BroncoBuff
05-09-2009, 10:03 AM
Hali hoping for a fresh start

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The thought first occurred to Tamba Hali last year as he suffered through the worst season of his NFL career.

Maybe he’d be better off if he were allowed to drop some weight and move away from defensive end, where he was having trouble staying in one piece and fulfilling what the Chiefs saw in Hali when they made him their first-round draft pick in 2006.

So it’s in that light that Hali is looking at the Chiefs’ hiring of coach Todd Haley and their planned transition to a 3-4 defense as a good thing. The Chiefs are looking at Hali as an outside linebacker, though he could play some at end when they move to the 4-3.

“They’re trying me at different spots, but I’ve got to think (linebacker) is probably where they’ll want me,” Hali said. “Haley’s telling me both defensive end and linebacker, so I’m moving between both of them now.

“I can rush the passer and play the run while I’m playing linebacker. That’s basically what I did at Penn State, so I’m excited about that.”

It might be the last chance for Hali to resurrect his career, at least in Kansas City. The Chiefs once pinned huge expectations to Hali, the first player they drafted after naming Herm Edwards as their coach three years ago.

The new administration of Haley and general manager Scott Pioli has no such allegiance to Hali. They drafted defensive linemen Tyson Jackson and Alex Magee with their two top draft picks and added veteran linebackers Mike Vrabel and Zach Thomas.


More: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1183165.html

Dudeskey
05-09-2009, 10:17 AM
Well, of course his numbers dropped. He doesn't have Jared Allen to gift wrap sacks for him anymore...™

boltaneer
05-09-2009, 10:22 AM
He's a poor fit for a 3-4 OLB. I don't think Dorsey is a great fit in a 3-4 either.

They're just throwing away their rebuilding project they've done in the past two years. I don't get what they're doing but of course, I love it!

And getting rid of Jared Allen was just beyond stupid.

Br0nc0Buster
05-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Well Hali at least started, Moss could never do that.

I dont know what they are going to do with Dorsey either, he wasnt drafted to play in a 3-4, it doesnt fit his strengths.

Well his supposed strengths, he didnt show much last year

gyldenlove
05-09-2009, 10:37 AM
He's a poor fit for a 3-4 OLB. I don't think Dorsey is a great fit in a 3-4 either.

They're just throwing away their rebuilding project they've done in the past two years. I don't get what they're doing but of course, I love it!

And getting rid of Jared Allen was just beyond stupid.

A Chargers fan who is right about something.

The biggest mistake they made was keeping King Carl and Edwards in charge during 2008. They knew that year was a rebuilding year, but instead of committing to Edwards and Carl to finish the rebuilding they switched horses halfway through effective throwing away everything they did during 2008 including trading Allen and drafting Dorsey.

400HZ
05-09-2009, 11:22 AM
Dorsey is a total loss switching to a 30 front. And if Hali couldn't get sacks in a 3-point stance then he won't be able to in a 2-point either. He's still not in Jarvis Moss territory though. :giggle:

BroncoBuff
05-09-2009, 11:41 AM
Offing Allen was kinda similar to offing Cutler ...

The difference is, we still have the best/near-best O-line and skill players in the league, while KC's defense is left in tatters, with guys all outta sync and out of position in their new system.

footstepsfrom#27
05-09-2009, 11:53 AM
He had one down year in '08 and this translates to needing to resurrect his career? I wasn't sold on this guy coming out of college but after reading what he overcame to escape the civil war in Liberia, I was rooting for this guy even though he's a Chief.

To me it makes no sense to toss out the talent you've accumulated in a prior rebuilding effort just to satisfy the need to move to a new system. When a new regime comes in and does that it smacks of ego to me, which is what this looks like. Hali isn't Moss, who arrived in the NFL 30 pounds underweight and dragging a two year illness in his past that shortchanged his development. Moss was known to be at leat two years away when he drafted just so he could gain weight and strength. This guy started his first two years and notched 15 1/2 sacks before tailing off last year with 3. Who knows if he can play OLB in the 3-4 or not...but he's in the same boat as Elvis in that regard.

bronco610
05-09-2009, 11:59 AM
He had one down year in '08 and this translates to needing to resurrect his career? I wasn't sold on this guy coming out of college but after reading what he overcame to escape the civil war in Liberia, I was rooting for this guy even though he's a Chief.

To me it makes no sense to toss out the talent you've accumulated in a prior rebuilding effort just to satisfy the need to move to a new system. When a new regime comes in and does that it smacks of ego to me, which is what this looks like. Hali isn't Moss, who arrived in the NFL 30 pounds underweight and dragging a two year illness in his past that shortchanged his development. Moss was known to be at leat two years away when he drafted just so he could gain weight and strength. This guy started his first two years and notched 15 1/2 sacks before tailing off last year with 3. Who knows if he can play OLB in the 3-4 or not...but he's in the same boat as Elvis in that regard.

Footsteps, you really have to stop taking the high road :approve:

BroncoBuff
05-09-2009, 12:13 PM
It's really the same thing as Jarvis Moss .... Hali has played more than Jarvis, but they're both undersized 1st-round DEs trying to make the transition to 3-4 OLB.

I wonder which (if either) will succeed?

footstepsfrom#27
05-09-2009, 12:17 PM
Footsteps, you really have to stop taking the high road :approve:
:spit:

footstepsfrom#27
05-09-2009, 12:21 PM
It's really the same thing as Jarvis Moss .... Hali has played more than Jarvis, but they're both undersized 1st-round DEs trying to make the transition to 3-4 OLB.

I wonder which (if either) will succeed?
Except that one is 275 and the other's about 250 soaking wet. Hali could be traded to a 4-3 team if he doesn't work in the 3-4 but apparently nobody wants Jarvis even for a 7th. I think his inability to gain weight is going to make this his last shot.

BroncoBuff
05-09-2009, 02:33 PM
Footsteps, you really have to stop taking the high road :approve:

Yeah steps, what's with this peace love hippie routine?

Are you smoking pot? :peace:

Kaylore
05-09-2009, 02:38 PM
We'll be fine without Allen. Tampa Hali will be more than adequate

/Chiefs fan 2008

footstepsfrom#27
05-09-2009, 03:54 PM
Yeah steps, what's with this peace love hippie routine?

Are you smoking pot? :peace:
:giggle: Not in the last couple of decades at least.

WyoLaw
05-09-2009, 05:26 PM
I'd gladly take Hali over Moss.

ZachKC
05-09-2009, 05:46 PM
Their own Jarvis Moss?

Amazing. The absolute best case scenario for Jarvis Moss is to be Tamba Hali. Thats not an ringing endorsement of Hali in the least.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-09-2009, 06:26 PM
Hali sucks.

Moss wishes anyone would pay attention to him enough to say he sucks.

KCStud
05-09-2009, 10:24 PM
Offing Allen was kinda similar to offing Cutler ...

The difference is, we still have the best/near-best O-line and skill players in the league, while KC's defense is left in tatters, with guys all outta sync and out of position in their new system.

Denver does not have one of the best set of skill players in the league.
I like how this board makes fun of Bowe for having butterfingers. Look who was the 3rd WR with the most drops?

Passes Dropped
Rank Name Team Games Drops
1 Braylon Edwards CLE 16 16
2 Dwayne Bowe KC 16 13
3 Brandon Marshall DEN 15 12
T-4 Laveranues Coles NYJ 16 8
T-4 Marcedes Lewis JAC 16 8
T-4 Marshawn Lynch BUF 15 8
T-7 Dallas Clark IND 15 7
T-7 Anthony Gonzalez IND 16 7
T-7 Hines Ward PIT 16 7
T-10 Jabar Gaffney NE 16 6
T-10 Justin Gage TEN 12 6
T-10 Ted Ginn Jr. MIA 16 6
T-10 Santonio Holmes PIT 15 6
T-10 Chad Johnson CIN 13 6
T-10 Zach Miller OAK 16 6
T-10 Randy Moss NE 16 6
T-10 Robert Royal BUF 15 6

KC should be using the 4-3 under and 3-4 like Arizona did last season. Dorsey will be utilized in the 4-3 under to fit his strengths which made him so good in college. As for Hali, we'll see how he does in the 3-4 at OLB. He has about the same chance as Dumervil does.

Archer81
05-09-2009, 10:27 PM
Denver does not have one of the best set of skill players in the league.
I like how this board makes fun of Bowe for having butterfingers. Look who was the 3rd WR with the most drops?

Passes Dropped
Rank Name Team Games Drops
1 Braylon Edwards CLE 16 16
2 Dwayne Bowe KC 16 13
3 Brandon Marshall DEN 15 12
T-4 Laveranues Coles NYJ 16 8
T-4 Marcedes Lewis JAC 16 8
T-4 Marshawn Lynch BUF 15 8
T-7 Dallas Clark IND 15 7
T-7 Anthony Gonzalez IND 16 7
T-7 Hines Ward PIT 16 7
T-10 Jabar Gaffney NE 16 6
T-10 Justin Gage TEN 12 6
T-10 Ted Ginn Jr. MIA 16 6
T-10 Santonio Holmes PIT 15 6
T-10 Chad Johnson CIN 13 6
T-10 Zach Miller OAK 16 6
T-10 Randy Moss NE 16 6
T-10 Robert Royal BUF 15 6

KC should be using the 4-3 under and 3-4 like Arizona did last season. Dorsey will be utilized in the 4-3 under to fit his strengths which made him so good in college. As for Hali, we'll see how he does in the 3-4 at OLB. He has about the same chance as Dumervil does.


Marshall sustained an injury to his arm, with some minor nerve damage. What's Bowe's excuse?


:Broncos:

KCStud
05-09-2009, 10:31 PM
Marshall sustained an injury to his arm, with some minor nerve damage. What's Bowe's excuse?


:Broncos:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1x1mvb2W23Q/SYHo850oINI/AAAAAAAAAh8/MOulOR4ng1U/s400/edwards.jpg

Archer81
05-09-2009, 10:32 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1x1mvb2W23Q/SYHo850oINI/AAAAAAAAAh8/MOulOR4ng1U/s400/edwards.jpg


Touche' sir.


:Broncos:

UberBroncoMan
05-10-2009, 12:02 AM
A big difference though is that Hali has started throughout his NFL career since he was a Rookie. Both Moss and Crowder have not had that opportunity and are vastly far behind Hali in gameday experience.

Florida_Bronco
05-10-2009, 12:10 AM
Marshall sustained an injury to his arm, with some minor nerve damage. What's Bowe's excuse?

He also had about a billion passes thrown his way. I'd like to see the ratio of catches to drops. Something tells me it would be a landslide in Brandon's favor.

BroncoBuff
05-10-2009, 01:52 AM
Denver does not have one of the best set of skill players in the league.
Best or "near best" is what I said. TO left the Cowboys, and if Boldin leaves Arizona, I think we'll have the second best WR duo (Pats).

Of course Knowshon and Hillis aren't there yet. But I'm pretty confident they'll be a Top 5 RB duo by mid-season :thumbs:


I like how this board makes fun of Bowe for having butterfingers. Look who was the 3rd WR with the most drops?

Passes Dropped
Rank Name Team Games Drops
1 Braylon Edwards CLE 16 16
2 Dwayne Bowe KC 16 13 160 chances, 84 catches
3 Brandon Marshall DEN 15 12 200 chances, 104 catches
T-4 Laveranues Coles NYJ 16 8
T-4 Marcedes Lewis JAC 16 8
T-4 Marshawn Lynch BUF 15 8
T-7 Dallas Clark IND 15 7
T-7 Anthony Gonzalez IND 16 7

In the first place, you provided no link there, you don't even say what year it was

In the second place, you're an idiot. Marshall caught about 20 more balls than Bowe, meaning he had about 40 more balls thrown his way. But even with this much larger number of chances, B-Marsh STILL HAD FEWER drops than Bowe.

You gotta learn to read stats more fully ... Bowe had about 160 passes thrown his way, B-Marsh about 200. You have to adjust for this discrepancy - it's a 20% difference.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-10-2009, 02:16 AM
You gotta learn to read stats more fully.

ROFL!

You are such a condescending prick to people sometimes.

BroncoBuff
05-10-2009, 02:48 AM
ROFL!

You are such a condescending prick to people sometimes.

Sometimes?

Broncos_OTM
05-10-2009, 05:53 AM
Denver does not have one of the best set of skill players in the league.
I like how this board makes fun of Bowe for having butterfingers. Look who was the 3rd WR with the most drops?

Passes Dropped
Rank Name Team Games Drops
1 Braylon Edwards CLE 16 16
2 Dwayne Bowe KC 16 13
3 Brandon Marshall DEN 15 12
T-4 Laveranues Coles NYJ 16 8
T-4 Marcedes Lewis JAC 16 8
T-4 Marshawn Lynch BUF 15 8
T-7 Dallas Clark IND 15 7
T-7 Anthony Gonzalez IND 16 7
T-7 Hines Ward PIT 16 7
T-10 Jabar Gaffney NE 16 6
T-10 Justin Gage TEN 12 6
T-10 Ted Ginn Jr. MIA 16 6
T-10 Santonio Holmes PIT 15 6
T-10 Chad Johnson CIN 13 6
T-10 Zach Miller OAK 16 6
T-10 Randy Moss NE 16 6
T-10 Robert Royal BUF 15 6

KC should be using the 4-3 under and 3-4 like Arizona did last season. Dorsey will be utilized in the 4-3 under to fit his strengths which made him so good in college. As for Hali, we'll see how he does in the 3-4 at OLB. He has about the same chance as Dumervil does.That is pitiful. Marshall had exstensive damage done last off season jacking around. thats just trolling. Look at the year previous and see how many he had. and then we will talk

elsid13
05-10-2009, 06:10 AM
The Chefs are in tough spot, since both "Holley" and Doresy aren't truly suited for 3/4 that been talk about. I would expect that like Arizona last season you will see 4 down line more then 50% of the time as the team plays a hybrid defense front.

crazyhorse
05-10-2009, 06:16 AM
Best or "near best" is what I said. TO left the Cowboys, and if Boldin leaves Arizona, I think we'll have the second best WR duo (Pats).

Of course Knowshon and Hillis aren't there yet. But I'm pretty confident they'll be a Top 5 RB duo by mid-season :thumbs:



In the first place, you provided no link there, you don't even say what year it was

In the second place, you're an idiot. Marshall caught about 20 more balls than Bowe, meaning he had about 40 more balls thrown his way. But even with this much larger number of chances, B-Marsh STILL HAD FEWER drops than Bowe.

You gotta learn to read stats more fully ... Bowe had about 160 passes thrown his way, B-Marsh about 200. You have to adjust for this discrepancy - it's a 20% difference.

How many were catchable? No way to know. Just knowing that Marshall had the legendary Jay Cutler throwing to him, one must assume Marshall squandered more chances.

See how that works.

Facts are, that just as many passes were DROPPED by both players. You watched the games. You saw the drops just like I did.

Both need to work on it. Both WR are very similar.

Let's not make excuses for either one.

KCStud
05-10-2009, 07:30 AM
Best or "near best" is what I said. TO left the Cowboys, and if Boldin leaves Arizona, I think we'll have the second best WR duo (Pats).

Of course Knowshon and Hillis aren't there yet. But I'm pretty confident they'll be a Top 5 RB duo by mid-season :thumbs:



In the first place, you provided no link there, you don't even say what year it was

In the second place, you're an idiot. Marshall caught about 20 more balls than Bowe, meaning he had about 40 more balls thrown his way. But even with this much larger number of chances, B-Marsh STILL HAD FEWER drops than Bowe.

You gotta learn to read stats more fully ... Bowe had about 160 passes thrown his way, B-Marsh about 200. You have to adjust for this discrepancy - it's a 20% difference.

Lol it's debatable. I can name quite a few teams who arguably have better skill players or receivers in general.

Good for Marshall. Yes he did have more balls thrown, but it still proves my point. Marshall was 3rd in dropped passes right behind Bowe. No gift wrapping is gonna change that.

KCStud
05-10-2009, 07:37 AM
How many were catchable? No way to know. Just knowing that Marshall had the legendary Jay Cutler throwing to him, one must assume Marshall squandered more chances.

See how that works.

Facts are, that just as many passes were DROPPED by both players. You watched the games. You saw the drops just like I did.

Both need to work on it. Both WR are very similar.

Let's not make excuses for either one.

Yep. I'm glad Bowe is working out with Fitzgerald.

ZachKC
05-10-2009, 08:12 AM
A big difference though is that Hali has started throughout his NFL career since he was a Rookie. Both Moss and Crowder have not had that opportunity and are vastly far behind Hali in gameday experience.

Was this supposed to be a post in support of Moss??

He isn't good enough to get on the field and get game experience!! So there!!

ZachKC
08-01-2009, 04:21 PM
Their own Jarvis Moss?

Amazing. The absolute best case scenario for Jarvis Moss is to be Tamba Hali. Thats not an ringing endorsement of Hali in the least.

Ding! Couldn't quite live up to the Hali standard.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-01-2009, 04:34 PM
Hali once had a 3-sack game.

Moss had 3.5 for his career.

OABB
08-01-2009, 04:41 PM
I once had a delicious 3-sack teabag party.

fyp

lex
08-01-2009, 04:52 PM
It's really the same thing as Jarvis Moss .... Hali has played more than Jarvis, but they're both undersized 1st-round DEs trying to make the transition to 3-4 OLB.

I wonder which (if either) will succeed?

Plus, Moss was drafted under for Bates defense. Bates ended up being replaced by Slowik (of all people) before the season was half over. Similarly, the Chiefs having a million draft picks to rebuild with in 2008, only have turnover at the top that might waste some of those picks.

TheReverend
08-01-2009, 05:10 PM
Hali once had a 3-sack game.

Moss had 3.5 for his career.

I think 3 of those were vs NE this past year. That means he had a 3 sack game too... just .5 for the rest of his career. ROFL!

broncswin
08-01-2009, 07:14 PM
Denver does not have one of the best set of skill players in the league.
I like how this board makes fun of Bowe for having butterfingers. Look who was the 3rd WR with the most drops?

Passes Dropped
Rank Name Team Games Drops
1 Braylon Edwards CLE 16 16
2 Dwayne Bowe KC 16 13
3 Brandon Marshall DEN 15 12
T-4 Laveranues Coles NYJ 16 8
T-4 Marcedes Lewis JAC 16 8
T-4 Marshawn Lynch BUF 15 8
T-7 Dallas Clark IND 15 7
T-7 Anthony Gonzalez IND 16 7
T-7 Hines Ward PIT 16 7
T-10 Jabar Gaffney NE 16 6
T-10 Justin Gage TEN 12 6
T-10 Ted Ginn Jr. MIA 16 6
T-10 Santonio Holmes PIT 15 6
T-10 Chad Johnson CIN 13 6
T-10 Zach Miller OAK 16 6
T-10 Randy Moss NE 16 6
T-10 Robert Royal BUF 15 6

KC should be using the 4-3 under and 3-4 like Arizona did last season. Dorsey will be utilized in the 4-3 under to fit his strengths which made him so good in college. As for Hali, we'll see how he does in the 3-4 at OLB. He has about the same chance as Dumervil does.

Wow kcdud, that is not the best stat to bring to the table in Bowes defense, i garuntee Marshall had a ton more balls thrown at him, with much more velocity on them. He aslo had nerve damage...(yes he was a dumba$$).

BroncoBuff
08-01-2009, 09:52 PM
This is an old thread, saw the article and just wanted to tweak the boob.

Of course Hali is a little better than Jarvis.


My Marshall vs. Bowe statistical analysis is solid though. Raw number of drops alone is not a meaningful stat unless you factor in how many balls were thrown his way.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-01-2009, 10:00 PM
My Marshall vs. Bowe statistical analysis is solid though. Raw number of drops alone is not a meaningful stat unless you factor in how many balls were thrown his way.

It's 181 vs 157

Not a huge difference.

Of course Marshall is a little better than Bowe.

BroncoBuff
08-01-2009, 10:17 PM
It's 181 vs 157

Not a huge difference.

Of course Marshall is a little better than Bowe.

Dude, Bowe had MORE drops that B-Marsh with far fewer chances.

Story ends there.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-01-2009, 11:17 PM
"far fewer" is not exactly accurate.

Considering the discrepancies in quarterback play and offensive scheme, it's more of a push than anything.

I'm guessing the gap will be even closer with Orton doing his little shimmy...it makes the women in Denver puke.

Bronco Rob
08-02-2009, 07:57 AM
When the cheefs drafted Hali.... Gunther Colonel Klink Cunningham compared Hali to Leslie O'Neal.........ROFL!


Gee I wonder why he falied in the NFL...Hilarious!



LOL

BMarsh615
08-02-2009, 08:25 AM
Denver does not have one of the best set of skill players in the league.
I like how this board makes fun of Bowe for having butterfingers. Look who was the 3rd WR with the most drops?

Passes Dropped
Rank Name Team Games Drops
1 Braylon Edwards CLE 16 16
2 Dwayne Bowe KC 16 13
3 Brandon Marshall DEN 15 12
T-4 Laveranues Coles NYJ 16 8
T-4 Marcedes Lewis JAC 16 8
T-4 Marshawn Lynch BUF 15 8
T-7 Dallas Clark IND 15 7
T-7 Anthony Gonzalez IND 16 7
T-7 Hines Ward PIT 16 7
T-10 Jabar Gaffney NE 16 6
T-10 Justin Gage TEN 12 6
T-10 Ted Ginn Jr. MIA 16 6
T-10 Santonio Holmes PIT 15 6
T-10 Chad Johnson CIN 13 6
T-10 Zach Miller OAK 16 6
T-10 Randy Moss NE 16 6
T-10 Robert Royal BUF 15 6
.
Braylon Edwards was targeted 138 times and dropped 11% of those passes

Dwayne Bowe was targeted 157 times last year. He dropped 8% of those passes

Brandon Marshall was targeted 181 times last year. He dropped 6.6% of those passes

Coles was targeted 115 times and dropped 6.9% of those passes

Marcedes Lewis was targeted 71 times and dropped 11% of those passes

Marshawn Lynch was targeted 67 times and dropped 11% of those passes

Dallas Clark was targeted 107 times and dropped 6.5% of those passes

Anthony Gonzalez was targeted 79 times and dropped 8% of those passes


So that tells you how drops can be misleading. The only reason why Brandon Marshall had so many drops was because Cutler almost threw 1/3 of his passes Marshall's way.