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View Full Version : Darius Walker Signs With The Broncos


Denver724
05-07-2009, 03:50 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/07/darius-walker-signs-with-the-broncos/

According to the Twitter account of agent Drew Rosenhaus, running back Darius Walker has signed a two-year deal with the Denver Broncos.

Walker, a former Notre Dame tailback who was undrafted upon leaving school a year early, played for the Texans in 2007, and bounced on and off the teamís roster in 2008.

In Denver, Walker joins a very crowded house at the running back position.

HEAV
05-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Per Rosenhaus Twitter

http://twitter.com/RosenhausSports


Weird signing... a few years ago I was all for Darius Walker. But now the stable is full.

footstepsfrom#27
05-07-2009, 03:53 PM
Drew Rosenhause uses twitter?

Hotrod
05-07-2009, 03:54 PM
I guess this pretty much confirms the rumors of Knowshons recent injury.

:nono:

400HZ
05-07-2009, 03:54 PM
McDaniels is going to build on the success of the Wildcat with the Thundercat offense which will feature seven runningbacks on the field at the same time. It will also involve Lonnie Paxton. You heard it here first.

RunSilentRunDeep
05-07-2009, 03:55 PM
http://valueacceleration.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/lombardi_trophy2.jpg

SonOfLe-loLang
05-07-2009, 03:56 PM
I guess this pretty much confirms the rumors of Knowshons recent injury.

:nono:

what injury

bronco610
05-07-2009, 03:56 PM
http://valueacceleration.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/lombardi_trophy2.jpg

What took you so long?

eddie mac
05-07-2009, 03:57 PM
Selvin's replacement considering Torain will almost certainly begin the season on PUP again.

socalorado
05-07-2009, 03:58 PM
McDaniels is going to build on the success of the Wildcat with the Thundercat offense which will feature seven runningbacks on the field at the same time. It will also involve Lonnie Paxton. You heard it here first.

THUNDER...
THUNDER....
THUNDCATS!!!! HO!!!!

http://chris2fer.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/thundercats.jpg

bowtown
05-07-2009, 03:58 PM
Well this move goes a long way towards relieving my concerns about our RB depth this year. I hope we cut one of our Dline scrubs to make room.

DHallblows
05-07-2009, 03:59 PM
Huh?! ???

BigPlayShay
05-07-2009, 03:59 PM
I guess this pretty much confirms the rumors of Knowshons recent injury.

:nono:

Huh? Link?

Punisher
05-07-2009, 04:03 PM
How many RBs do McD want?.........

NFLBRONCO
05-07-2009, 04:04 PM
We better hire Switzer as asst so we can run the wishbone some in 09.

Ratboy
05-07-2009, 04:05 PM
McDaniels doesn't know what he wants.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-07-2009, 04:06 PM
Crap bye Hillis

Why do people KEEP insisting that they will trade Peyton? He has a totally diff skill set than Walker

24champ
05-07-2009, 04:08 PM
McDaniels doesn't know what he wants.

Didn't you get the memo? These runningbacks will solve the Defensive line problems...Hilarious!

Plus we have the great Lonnie Paxton!

NFLBRONCO
05-07-2009, 04:09 PM
Why do people KEEP insisting that they will trade Peyton? He has a totally diff skill set than Walker

Nothing would surprise me in 09 is the thing. I do not want to trade Hillis EVER.

goldengopher1976
05-07-2009, 04:09 PM
Why do people KEEP insisting that they will trade Peyton? He has a totally diff skill set than Walker

It's a way to psychologically prepare themselves. They fear losing him and so they predict it in an attempt to be ready emotionally.

*removes psychologist hat*

SonOfLe-loLang
05-07-2009, 04:10 PM
Didn't you get the memo? These runningbacks will solve the Defensive line problems...Hilarious!

Plus we have the great Lonnie Paxton!

Whatever. if we signed some DL with similar chances to make the team as walker, some a-hole would put up the Lombardi and say "i dont get why we sign someone no one wants" relax

frerottenextelway
05-07-2009, 04:22 PM
http://erie-pa.org/images/WALKEN.jpg

PRBronco
05-07-2009, 04:23 PM
Off the top of my head:
Last season at this time:
Andre Hall
Pittman
Young
Hillis
Torain
AlDridge
Larsen (I'm assuming Shanny really had no intention of him being a linebacker)

This year:
Hillis
Torain
Walker
Jordan
Arrington
Buckhalter
Knowshon

Same amount of runners, I don't recall anyone saying a word about it last year? I could easily be forgetting someone though. Also I really don't see Torain making the team. I personally like him, but he's definitely got Shanny player written all over him, and most of those guys don't seem too safe here.

Br0nc0Buster
05-07-2009, 04:23 PM
I think the plan is to horde all the runningbacks and then when the season starts and teams need RBs because theirs got hurt, well jack up the price

Bold move cotton, lets see it if pays off

WABronco
05-07-2009, 04:27 PM
Competition for a handful of spots down to Moreno, Jordan, Buck, Arrington, Hillis, and now Walker. Everyone but Jordan, to my knowledge, can run and catch. Good backfield depth>Andre ****ing Hall, PJ Pope, and Co.

footstepsfrom#27
05-07-2009, 04:36 PM
Off the top of my head:
Last season at this time:
Andre Hall
Pittman
Young
Hillis
Torain
AlDridge
Larsen (I'm assuming Shanny really had no intention of him being a linebacker)
No Cooked Crack?

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 04:39 PM
i was thinking that we could use another runningback...

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 04:40 PM
McDaniels is going to build on the success of the Wildcat with the Thundercat offense which will feature seven runningbacks on the field at the same time. It will also involve Lonnie Paxton. You heard it here first.

who plays Liono?...

goldengopher1976
05-07-2009, 04:41 PM
THUNDER...
THUNDER....
THUNDCATS!!!! HO!!!!

http://chris2fer.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/thundercats.jpg

I just lost my appetite.

goldengopher1976
05-07-2009, 04:43 PM
Off the top of my head:
Last season at this time:
Andre Hall
Pittman
Young
Hillis
Torain
AlDridge
Larsen (I'm assuming Shanny really had no intention of him being a linebacker)

This year:
Hillis
Torain
Walker
Jordan
Arrington
Buckhalter
Knowshon

Same amount of runners, I don't recall anyone saying a word about it last year? I could easily be forgetting someone though. Also I really don't see Torain making the team. I personally like him, but he's definitely got Shanny player written all over him, and most of those guys don't seem too safe here.

We had too much to talk about last year. With the relative quiet of this past off-season, we are drumming up things to talk about...

PRBronco
05-07-2009, 04:48 PM
No Cooked Crack?

We didn't pick him up till midseason I think. Trust me, I'm always thinking about cooked crack.

watermock
05-07-2009, 04:48 PM
So we spend #10 on Moreno after we sign 3 FA rbs.

Then sign Walker?

Boy Wonder at work yet again.

Hotrod
05-07-2009, 04:49 PM
So we spend #10 on Moreno after we sign 3 FA rbs.

Then sign Walker?

Boy Wonder at work yet again.

He is injured what should we do. Some you win some you lose.

Tripucka 2 Taylor
05-07-2009, 04:50 PM
This year:
Hillis
Torain
Walker
Jordan
Arrington
Buckhalter
Knowshon

B!tch!!! You forgot my homeboy Kestahn Moore! Better recognize my brotha.

WyoLaw
05-07-2009, 04:51 PM
So we spend #10 on Moreno after we sign 3 FA rbs.

Then sign Walker?

Boy Wonder at work yet again.

No, actually we spent #12 on Moreno. Make you feel better?

Flex Gunmetal
05-07-2009, 05:00 PM
So is Moreno hurt or what?

SportinOne
05-07-2009, 05:00 PM
Off the top of my head:
Last season at this time:
Andre Hall
Pittman
Young
Hillis
Torain
AlDridge
Larsen (I'm assuming Shanny really had no intention of him being a linebacker)

This year:
Hillis
Torain
Walker
Jordan
Arrington
Buckhalter
Knowshon

Same amount of runners, I don't recall anyone saying a word about it last year? I could easily be forgetting someone though. Also I really don't see Torain making the team. I personally like him, but he's definitely got Shanny player written all over him, and most of those guys don't seem too safe here.

Last year Larsen and Hillis were penciled in at the FB position. While Hillis is now an RB you can't count him on the first list from last year, nor can you count Larsen. Nice try, though.

PRBronco
05-07-2009, 05:02 PM
Last year Larsen and Hillis were penciled in at the FB position. While Hillis is now an RB you can't count him on the first list from last year, nor can you count Larsen. Nice try, though.

Pretty sure McD considers Hillis our fullback...

oubronco
05-07-2009, 05:05 PM
what the hell is twitter it sounds like something you would do to a clit

SportinOne
05-07-2009, 05:12 PM
Pretty sure McD considers Hillis our fullback...

Has he said this?

Rohirrim
05-07-2009, 05:12 PM
I think I can see Mac's plan: He intends to corner the market on RBs and then drive up the price...

Brilliant!

SonOfLe-loLang
05-07-2009, 05:14 PM
Pretty sure McD considers Hillis our fullback...

See heath evans. one back sets...bruiser

PRBronco
05-07-2009, 05:15 PM
See heath evans. one back sets...bruiser

Thank you! I couldn't think of that dude's name.

Tripucka 2 Taylor
05-07-2009, 05:16 PM
Good thing Kubiak had Darius Walker. Kubiak removed all the filth that Walker picked up from Charlie Weis.

Punisher
05-07-2009, 05:17 PM
Ok for now on when McD signs a Running Back I'm going to cut myself

Anaximines
05-07-2009, 05:19 PM
sounds like the lovechild of Darius Watts and Javon Walker.

Paladin
05-07-2009, 05:20 PM
THUNDER...
THUNDER....
THUNDCATS!!!! HO!!!!

http://chris2fer.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/thundercats.jpg

Hotrod?

BroncoMan4ever
05-07-2009, 05:22 PM
anyone else think McDaniels is stockpiling these RBs so that when injury happens to another team at the position, he can wheel and deal for picks?

or, just the fact that the Pats and Broncos, lost to injury something like 12 RBs combined last season is my guess as to why McDaniels is bringing in a lot of depth.

look at our roster. Moreno and Hillis are the only safe bets to make the final roster. Buckhalter and Torain have a strong likelihood of being injured before the season starts. Arrington will be a ST return man, 3rd down back and probably a game day inactive often. Jordan is a short yardage goal line back and depth. and Walker is just camp fodder.

i am not worried at all that Hillis may get traded. he is so versatile and exactly the type of guy the Pats like

Rohirrim
05-07-2009, 05:23 PM
Hotrod?

No. This is Hotrod.

https://damicoworks.sslpowered.com/candysmokes.com/images/tron2.jpg

MOCRUSH
05-07-2009, 05:25 PM
This just confirms the Hillis to New Orleans rumors. You must respect the authority of Mc________!

Traveler
05-07-2009, 05:26 PM
THUNDER...
THUNDER....
THUNDCATS!!!! HO!!!!

http://chris2fer.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/thundercats.jpg

Snarf, Snarf, Snarf...

SportinOne
05-07-2009, 05:31 PM
I don't even know why I'm arguing about this, it's not like it matters. I doubt we paid much for Walker and it's good to have solid depth. Not a bad move.

Hamrob
05-07-2009, 05:53 PM
I think the Saints want Hillis.

I just heard Woodson (NFLC) talking about how the Saints need to get a pounder to compliment Bush for them to be successful and take some pressure off of Brees.

With the rumors of the Saints and Broncos discussing a trade involving a RB...it only makes sense that they want Hillis.

I hope it doesn't happen...but I liked Cutler too!

lostknight
05-07-2009, 06:07 PM
More dead money.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-07-2009, 06:13 PM
I think the Saints want Hillis.

I just heard Woodson (NFLC) talking about how the Saints need to get a pounder to compliment Bush for them to be successful and take some pressure off of Brees.

With the rumors of the Saints and Broncos discussing a trade involving a RB...it only makes sense that they want Hillis.

I hope it doesn't happen...but I liked Cutler too!

OK, once and for all, this is the genesis of the HIllis to Saints rumor:

Mike Lombardi noticed that the Saints needed a running back. While perusing NFL rosters, he noticed the Broncos had a bunch. He did not identify any of them specifically, nor did he say talks were happening. He just said it would be a nice place to start.

Another news outlet picked up that story and, while, citing lombardi, claimed the two teams were talking (telephone game, thats not what lombardi said).

Then, with these two articles, the mane, of course, not only assumed the Saints wanted Hillis, but also assumed it was pretty much a done deal because McDaniels hates every player on his roster.

That's it.

Hulamau
05-07-2009, 06:43 PM
So is Moreno hurt or what?

No

ohiobronco2
05-07-2009, 06:44 PM
THUNDER...
THUNDER....
THUNDCATS!!!! HO!!!!

http://chris2fer.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/thundercats.jpg

Hilarious! :spit: Ha! LOL

BroncoBuff
05-07-2009, 06:53 PM
I thought we were supposed to be offing RBs ???

HEAV
05-07-2009, 07:40 PM
I guess this pretty much confirms the rumors of Knowshons recent injury.

:nono:

So are you going to expound on your (above) comment or are you just stir'n the pot.

OABB
05-07-2009, 07:50 PM
So are you going to expound on your (above) comment or are you just stir'n the pot.

has anyone ever read a hotrod post before?

Houshyamama
05-07-2009, 08:01 PM
So is Moreno hurt or what?

ACL

GoHAM
05-07-2009, 08:53 PM
No. This is Hotrod.

https://damicoworks.sslpowered.com/candysmokes.com/images/tron2.jpg

Dortoh, what a User. :pity: Ha!

GreatBronco16
05-07-2009, 09:35 PM
So we spend #10 on Moreno after we sign 3 FA rbs.

Then sign Walker?

Boy Wonder at work yet again.


Mock you're about as dumb as a jar of peanut butter.

kappys
05-07-2009, 10:38 PM
I suspect the odd man out is JJ Arrington.

He's the back with the best trade value and the only one with a significant salary outside of Moreno. I think McD was planning to use him and Hillis/Correl/Lamont as a 1-2 punch in the Giants style.

Once Moreno fell to us Arrington is now at best a 3rd down back. Moreno has a versatile skill set and I think a pounder is still the logical backup style runner. Selvin Young was too injured to play, and Walker has a similar skillset to Arrington but comes at a much cheaper price. For a guy that may only see 3-4 touches a game now Arrington would be way too pricey.

Its almost inevitable that a RB goes down at somepoint in camp and someone will make the trade for JJ. Won't get a huge price for him but it will help clear his salary off the book.

cutthemdown
05-07-2009, 10:47 PM
Why would Bronco fans want to make up stories about Moreno being injured? So what we troll our own board now?

azbroncfan
05-07-2009, 10:58 PM
So we spend #10 on Moreno after we sign 3 FA rbs.

Then sign Walker?

Boy Wonder at work yet again.


Are any of them any good? Buckhalter is probably the best but proved can't carry the load for full season and the rest are has been retreads, underachiever's, or injury prone.

s0phr0syne
05-07-2009, 11:11 PM
sounds like the lovechild of Darius Watts and Javon Walker.



Klaw lost sensation in the "digit" that would allow for that as well.

BroncoMan4ever
05-07-2009, 11:12 PM
Why would Bronco fans want to make up stories about Moreno being injured? So what we troll our own board now?

exactly, since when did so many douchebags here turn into Chiefs/Raiders/Chargers type of fans who troll sites and make up bogus **** just to piss everyone off.

bronco610
05-07-2009, 11:21 PM
exactly, since when did so many douchebags here turn into Chiefs/Raiders/Chargers type of fans who troll sites and make up bogus **** just to piss everyone off.

Since Shanny was fired.

cutthemdown
05-07-2009, 11:33 PM
exactly, since when did so many douchebags here turn into Chiefs/Raiders/Chargers type of fans who troll sites and make up bogus **** just to piss everyone off.

Pretty ****ing sad if you ask me.

It's one thing to call out players who showed on the field they weren't good players. It's all good though I'm sure fans questioning whether Moreno, Ayers, Smith will upgrade team fires up those players to prove people wrong once again.

Me I choose to believe the Broncos uniform is special. It will bring out the best in players. Broncos needed a change and IMO Mcdaniels is going to get it done. We will be more physical and IMO more talented this yr then we were last yr.

DarkHorse
05-08-2009, 12:04 AM
Pretty ****ing sad if you ask me.

It's one thing to call out players who showed on the field they weren't good players. It's all good though I'm sure fans questioning whether Moreno, Ayers, Smith will upgrade team fires up those players to prove people wrong once again.

Me I choose to believe the Broncos uniform is special. It will bring out the best in players. Broncos needed a change and IMO Mcdaniels is going to get it done. We will be more physical and IMO more talented this yr then we were last yr.


Sad yes. I've found the best thing to do here is just sift thru the first page which is usually 20 BS posts that are probably the most ignorant you'd ever read - to get to the 2 or 3 decent posts.

Probably best just to scour the major outlets for Broncos news - in the past the 'mane was great for combining all of them but anymore.....just a bunch of douchebags.

Mile High Mojoe
05-08-2009, 12:08 AM
anyone else think McDaniels is stockpiling these RBs so that when injury happens to another team at the position, he can wheel and deal for picks?

or, just the fact that the Pats and Broncos, lost to injury something like 12 RBs combined last season is my guess as to why McDaniels is bringing in a lot of depth.

look at our roster. Moreno and Hillis are the only safe bets to make the final roster. Buckhalter and Torain have a strong likelihood of being injured before the season starts. Arrington will be a ST return man, 3rd down back and probably a game day inactive often. Jordan is a short yardage goal line back and depth. and Walker is just camp fodder.

i am not worried at all that Hillis may get traded. he is so versatile and exactly the type of guy the Pats likeHe isn't stock piling picks to wheel and deal for draft picks, the only guys anyone would be interested in are Moreno and Hillis. Buckhalter, Arrington and Jordan are nothing but role players only they won't be starting and shouldn't they've proven they don't have the game for it. Torain probably will be put on the PUP. McD may or may not like the RB's that Shanahan left him and he probably is worried about depth. Seems like he's bigger fear should be with depth on the DL and at LB, the real weakness of the team as been pointed out a million times on this board and rightfully so.

OrangeRising
05-08-2009, 12:18 AM
How many RBs do McD want?.........

He wants a RB that fit's his 'scheme'. He seems to want a whole planet of somebodys who fit his 'scheme'.

Probably a bunch of somebodys who are so overwhelming that no-one notices Jay Cutler is no longer here when Kyle Orton lets loose with one of his 5-yard flutterballs.

"Yeah, but how about that running game, eh?"

ZONA
05-08-2009, 12:32 AM
I assume the extra RB's are going to be used alot in training camp and preseason to take the load off the main guys and save them for the regular season. I'm sure once the final cuts are made, one of these backs will be gone. But the longer we hang on to them, the better. Cutting players at the last moment means they have less time to pick up the plays with a new team and they are just a little behind.

ZONA
05-08-2009, 12:40 AM
He wants a RB that fit's his 'scheme'. He seems to want a whole planet of somebodys who fit his 'scheme'.

Probably a bunch of somebodys who are so overwhelming that no-one notices Jay Cutler is no longer here when Kyle Orton lets loose with one of his 5-yard flutterballs.

"Yeah, but how about that running game, eh?"

Get real. Honestly. You have to give Orton a chance with a good offense and a good offensive coach before you can truly judge him. Yes, I do think Cutler was better but he also did have the better players around him. Still, don't forget that Cutler had 18 INT's last year and at least another 7 balls that were thrown right smack into the hands of a defender who just plainly dropped the ball. Cutler was also good to decent on his TD passes but not special. He still had a ways to go to be considered a true franchise QB in alot of people's minds that are not in Denver.

watermock
05-08-2009, 12:54 AM
He still had a ways to go to be considered a true franchise QB in alot of people's minds that are not in Denver.

Good thing we brought in McDummy, he'll make Cutler into a better Tom Brady, oh wait...

BroncoMan4ever
05-08-2009, 01:33 AM
Pretty ****ing sad if you ask me.

It's one thing to call out players who showed on the field they weren't good players. It's all good though I'm sure fans questioning whether Moreno, Ayers, Smith will upgrade team fires up those players to prove people wrong once again.

Me I choose to believe the Broncos uniform is special. It will bring out the best in players. Broncos needed a change and IMO Mcdaniels is going to get it done. We will be more physical and IMO more talented this yr then we were last yr.

i'm the same way. every year i have the same beliefs in this team, that we are going to kick ass all year long. this year is no different. i personally don't like McDaniels, but i like his moves so far(minus the Cutler situation, but i am over that) i think he has brought in good assistants, good leadership, the running game and special teams have finally been addressed, with the use of actual draft picks and FA signings.

i know we didn't address the DL in the draft, but the guys we wanted in the 1st were gone, and we already have mid round talent on the roster, and there is very little chance any of the mid round guys in the draft we all wanted were going to be any better than who we already had.

i really like the draft McDaniels put together. Smith has 1st round talent and if he were 3 inches taller would have been a top 15 pick. Moreno is going to bring back the good running game we once had. Ayers is going to become a beast of a player for us. Quinn is a smart pick since Graham is getting older and we have no blocking depth behind him. Bruton is a ST demon. i like what we did. add in Baker, Rulon, Pedelexeau as UDFA and this was a really good draft.

Baker was one of the best NT prospects in the draft but fell out because of old character issues, and more than likely that has given him a chip on his shoulder to come in and kick some ass.

Rulon was one of the only true 3-4 DE prospects in the draft who actually played in a 3-4 defense in college.

footstepsfrom#27
05-08-2009, 02:08 AM
OK, once and for all, this is the genesis of the HIllis to Saints rumor:

Mike Lombardi noticed that the Saints needed a running back. While perusing NFL rosters, he noticed the Broncos had a bunch. He did not identify any of them specifically, nor did he say talks were happening. He just said it would be a nice place to start.

Another news outlet picked up that story and, while, citing lombardi, claimed the two teams were talking (telephone game, thats not what lombardi said).

Then, with these two articles, the mane, of course, not only assumed the Saints wanted Hillis, but also assumed it was pretty much a done deal because McDaniels hates every player on his roster.

That's it.
To late...Little Hoodie heard about it and just had himself another brilliant idea.

TheReverend
05-08-2009, 05:18 AM
Rulon was one of the only true 3-4 DE prospects in the draft who actually played in a 3-4 defense in college.

I'm just curious where you got that information from....

Broncoman13
05-08-2009, 06:19 AM
It was in an article biatch... look it up.

;D

Seriously, the one talking about his time in the Marine Corps, ROTC type/military schools at a young age and then getting run over by a truck... Nice little feel good story that included a piece about him being familiar with the 3-4 and playing the position in college.

Broncoman13
05-08-2009, 06:20 AM
I guess this pretty much confirms the rumors of Knowshons recent injury.

:nono:



If you're just being a smart ass with this that's pretty lame bud... ??? Is there a rumor going around that Moreno is hurt or is this total BS?

TheReverend
05-08-2009, 06:35 AM
It was in an article biatch... look it up.

;D

Seriously, the one talking about his time in the Marine Corps, ROTC type/military schools at a young age and then getting run over by a truck... Nice little feel good story that included a piece about him being familiar with the 3-4 and playing the position in college.

Right... but so many prospects spent a decent chunk (at least) playing the 3-4. Saying he's the only one is pretty far into the realm of absurdity.

TheReverend
05-08-2009, 06:36 AM
Oops. Missed "one of". Disregard.

barryr
05-08-2009, 07:33 AM
Some people that like Hillis and hate McDaniels want the Broncos to trade him so they can start another b**** fest with so many threads of how many Pro Bowls Hillis will be in playing with the Saints.

Hotrod
05-08-2009, 08:24 AM
ACL

Hopefully it is not too bad since nobody else has heard about this. I would assume they feel it will heal with some rest.

outdoor_miner
05-08-2009, 09:47 AM
Some people that like Hillis and hate McDaniels want the Broncos to trade him so they can start another b**** fest with so many threads of how many Pro Bowls Hillis will be in playing with the Saints.

This is absolutely correct. If you squint real hard, you can see the prayers floating up to heaven... "Please trade Hillis so that my hatred of McDaniels can be further justified... Please please please..."

Tombstone RJ
05-08-2009, 10:06 AM
I think that many posters here are getting mixed up in their feelings about what is going on with the RBs because in essence, two different things have been happening:

1. McD has focused a lot of time on the RB situation. He's released RBs, brought in FA RBs and drafted a RB. That's a lot of activity.

2. There are quite a few RBs on the roster, but in all actuality, the number of RBs on the roster now is about the same as the number of RBs on the roster this time last year.

Hope this helps all the nay-sayers to calm down and take a break from the hate.

Cito Pelon
05-08-2009, 10:15 AM
Selvin's replacement considering Torain will almost certainly begin the season on PUP again.

No, no. Selvin was cut, bad neck and all, just to pursue Walker, and now Walker is signed McStupid can trade Hillis. Or, more likely, Hillis will be cut outright because McDummy is, well, dumb.

And, Torian will be traded also, even though he won't be ready to run for another six months. The team is LOADED with tailbacks, LOADED, dude.

McDork will certainly dump the GUYS HE JUST SIGNED IN FA! That's how stupid he is! BECAUSE THE TEAM IS LOADED AT TAILBACK! I mean, jeez, THEY HAVE SIX TAILBACKS ON THE ROSTER!

Gosh a'mighty, SIX FREAKIN' TAILBACKS in the month of MAY! HOW in THE HELL can the McXanderDork FO freaking TOLERATE that?

That is why it is obvious Hillis is gone. Everybody knows McLiar trades guys he praises, mark it down.

You wait and see. The Broncos will be 4-12 FOR TEN YEARS. MARK IT DOWN!

DenverBrit
05-08-2009, 10:21 AM
I think that many posters here are getting mixed up in their feelings about what is going on with the RBs because in essence, two different things have been happening:

1. McD has focused a lot of time on the RB situation. He's released RBs, brought in FA RBs and drafted a RB. That's a lot of activity.

2. There are quite a few RBs on the roster, but in all actuality, the number of RBs on the roster now is about the same as the number of RBs on the roster this time last year.

Hope this helps all the nay-sayers to calm down and take a break from the hate.

Exactly.
The problem is that most of Denver's RBs are coming off IR or injury.
Having one starting RB coming off IR used to be enough to want 'insurance,' this looks like a simple precaution.
But that won't stop the McHaters pointing to a shrewd move as evidence of incompetence.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-08-2009, 10:47 AM
Hopefully it is not too bad since nobody else has heard about this. I would assume they feel it will heal with some rest.

I still havent seen one thing on this. He had an acl injury in college. where are you getting this **** from?

Orange_Beard
05-08-2009, 10:49 AM
Another Running back? WTF?
Some one should show this guy tape of our D last year, well the last 2 years.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2009, 10:55 AM
Another Running back? WTF?
Some one should show this guy tape of our D last year, well the last 2 years.

We have i think 9 RBs including FBs...we had 7 RBs (including and FB) on IR last year.
Why are people complaining? Oh cuz we look for reasons to hate our coach here.
Maybe FA D players look like **** this year?

cousinal11
05-08-2009, 11:34 AM
Curious move, that's for sure. One poster suggested the move might be geared towards letting someone else take the beating of running in camps, practice, preseason, etc. I agree with that line of thinking.

Having said that, I don't need any more reasons to hate McDaniels.

I LOVE the Broncos, always will.

I hate McDaniels.

Do I think he will be a good coach? I don't know. I hope so. I don't want him to fail, because that would mean the Broncos would fail.

Having said that, if he trades Hillis, :bs:

bowtown
05-08-2009, 11:48 AM
Hopefully it is not too bad since nobody else has heard about this. I would assume they feel it will heal with some rest.

Greek will find a way to **** it up and make it worse. He always does.

Drunk Monkey
05-08-2009, 11:49 AM
Regardless if we need another RB or not this was a bad singing. I am a Notre Dame fan and saw alot of Walker over the years. While elusive he is slow as all hell. No way he has what it takes to be an NFL back.

fdf
05-08-2009, 11:52 AM
I thought we were supposed to be offing RBs ???

Nope. We did that last year. All seven of them :)

Orange_Beard
05-08-2009, 03:33 PM
We have i think 9 RBs including FBs...we had 7 RBs (including and FB) on IR last year.
Why are people complaining? Oh cuz we look for reasons to hate our coach here.
Maybe FA D players look like **** this year?

I don't hate the coach... We just spent the majority of our FA budget on running backs and our first draft pick on a running back.

OUR DEFENSE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't care if we play a 3/4 or a 4/3, we ain't got NO LINEMEN.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2009, 03:47 PM
I don't hate the coach... We just spent the majority of our FA budget on running backs and our first draft pick on a running back.

OUR DEFENSE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't care if we play a 3/4 or a 4/3, we ain't got NO LINEMEN.

Cept the one we picked w/ #18. What stellar DL were available in FA? None. We got best available with what we had. Would you rather throw picks and cash at trash players?

GeniusatWork
05-08-2009, 04:10 PM
Why do people KEEP insisting that they will trade Peyton? He has a totally diff skill set than Walker

From what I see it's the people that insist Josh is the Mcidiot. They think they're inpressing people with their intelligence by saying he will trade Hillis and all of the offense. They're impressing they're own little gang that's for sure. They're like little girls in the hallway at school whispering and pointing at somebody then giggling together.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2009, 04:22 PM
From what I see it's the people that insist Josh is the Mcidiot. They think they're inpressing people with their intelligence by saying he will trade Hillis and all of the offense. They're impressing they're own little gang that's for sure. They're like little girls in the hallway at school whispering and pointing at somebody then giggling together.

They're retards.

azbroncfan
05-08-2009, 04:34 PM
No, no. Selvin was cut, bad neck and all, just to pursue Walker, and now Walker is signed McStupid can trade Hillis. Or, more likely, Hillis will be cut outright because McDummy is, well, dumb.

And, Torian will be traded also, even though he won't be ready to run for another six months. The team is LOADED with tailbacks, LOADED, dude.

McDork will certainly dump the GUYS HE JUST SIGNED IN FA! That's how stupid he is! BECAUSE THE TEAM IS LOADED AT TAILBACK! I mean, jeez, THEY HAVE SIX TAILBACKS ON THE ROSTER!

Gosh a'mighty, SIX FREAKIN' TAILBACKS in the month of MAY! HOW in THE HELL can the McXanderDork FO freaking TOLERATE that?

That is why it is obvious Hillis is gone. Everybody knows McLiar trades guys he praises, mark it down.

You wait and see. The Broncos will be 4-12 FOR TEN YEARS. MARK IT DOWN!

Overdramatic overreacting post of the day.

fdf
05-08-2009, 04:56 PM
Overdramatic overreacting post of the day.

I'm pretty sure the post was a parody of overdramatic overreacting posts.

Orange_Beard
05-08-2009, 06:00 PM
Cept the one we picked w/ #18. What stellar DL were available in FA? None. We got best available with what we had. Would you rather throw picks and cash at trash players?

All I am saying is that if we defense the run like we did last year, it will not matter who plays running back.

There are players out there that can be had.

Games will not be won or lost next year because of the 3rd, 4th or 5th running back. It will come down to the Play of the d-line.

Drek
05-08-2009, 06:41 PM
All I am saying is that if we defense the run like we did last year, it will not matter who plays running back.

There are players out there that can be had.

Games will not be won or lost next year because of the 3rd, 4th or 5th running back. It will come down to the Play of the d-line.

Name 'em.

Seriously. Other than Vonnie Holliday, who's teetering on the brink of washed up if he isn't already, there isn't much worth going after in the FA market right now. They brought Holliday in, supposedly he still thinks he's worth every down starter money. When training camps open he'll adjust that view and sign with somebody, hopefully its us.

But until then, what? Give Chris Canty $7M to play 5-tech? If that isn't a contract you regret down the road then I don't know what is. Igor Olshansky? No thanks, he's probably toast and even if he isn't he's still a douche.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2009, 08:16 PM
Name 'em.

Seriously. Other than Vonnie Holliday, who's teetering on the brink of washed up if he isn't already, there isn't much worth going after in the FA market right now. They brought Holliday in, supposedly he still thinks he's worth every down starter money. When training camps open he'll adjust that view and sign with somebody, hopefully its us.

But until then, what? Give Chris Canty $7M to play 5-tech? If that isn't a contract you regret down the road then I don't know what is. Igor Olshansky? No thanks, he's probably toast and even if he isn't he's still a douche.

:egbgb: :egbgb: :egbgb: :egbgb:

Orange_Beard
05-08-2009, 10:29 PM
Name 'em.

Seriously. Other than Vonnie Holliday, who's teetering on the brink of washed up if he isn't already, there isn't much worth going after in the FA market right now. They brought Holliday in, supposedly he still thinks he's worth every down starter money. When training camps open he'll adjust that view and sign with somebody, hopefully its us.

But until then, what? Give Chris Canty $7M to play 5-tech? If that isn't a contract you regret down the road then I don't know what is. Igor Olshansky? No thanks, he's probably toast and even if he isn't he's still a douche.

Free agency is not the only way to acquire players. Make a trade, come on, it's time to quit ****ing around picking up running backs.

Drek
05-09-2009, 05:29 AM
Free agency is not the only way to acquire players. Make a trade, come on, it's time to quit ****ing around picking up running backs.

Other than Hillis (and Pittman, but he's too damn old and injury prone now) our RBs sucked. Last I checked running backs are a pretty integral part of an NFL offense. McDaniels has been forced to rebuild the offensive backfield just as much as he needs to overhaul the defensive line.

Do you seriously think Walker has a legit shot to make the 53 man roster? He's got a diverse skill set sure, but he's a fringe NFL player. He's here in case Moreno/Buckhalter/Arrington don't make it out of camp or pre-season. Its the same reason we're still holding onto Torain. If by some miracle he stays healthy and Hillis or Jordan does not then he gets spared the axe.

We don't have any more RBs than what most teams go into pre-season with, we just had to cleanse a bunch of injury prone, low ceiling, 10-15 carry a game max backs and bring in guys with some potential to actually produce.

As for trading to get DL help, by all means lets here those ideas as well. A 2nd for Gabe Watson, when the Cards could still match the deal so in reality you're probably talking a 2nd and a mid-rounder to buy them out? After that who?

Last off-season three standout DTs changed teams, Kris Jenkins, Saun Rogers, and Marcus Stroud. All three have the size to play NT in a 3-4 or 4-3 (two are doing former in fact). Shanahan didn't think they were worth the equivalent of two 3rd rounders, and instead took Dwayne Robertson. Its cool that we basically got Robertson for free, but last year was the window to trade for a DT and Shanahan passed. Now they're all settled into new homes on lucrative deals. We have to wait for the next crop to get moved, possibly next year when Vince Wilfork, Gabe Watson, and Casey Hampton all going into unrestricted contract years and a better DT class on the horizon. Otherwise its throwing good money away on ****.

We signed the best FA NT this year, Ron Fields. Thats a real ****ing sad statement, but its the damn truth. They literally did everything they could to improve the DL without mortgaging the team's financial future.

rastaman
05-09-2009, 06:16 AM
It's a way to psychologically prepare themselves. They fear losing him and so they predict it in an attempt to be ready emotionally.

*removes psychologist hat*

Just make sure you don't buy anymore Bronco Jersey numbers with the players Shanny drafted btwn 2006-2008!!! Its a waste of money.....they won't be in Denver very long by the time McD is done redecorating the house.

Because McD views these players as old furniture left over from the Shanny era. When a new wife moves into the new house or replaces the previous wife.....whats the first thing they do! "They Change the Feakin Furniture"!

McD is no different.:thumbs:

rastaman
05-09-2009, 06:39 AM
Other than Hillis (and Pittman, but he's too damn old and injury prone now) our RBs sucked. Last I checked running backs are a pretty integral part of an NFL offense. McDaniels has been forced to rebuild the offensive backfield just as much as he needs to overhaul the defensive line.

Do you seriously think Walker has a legit shot to make the 53 man roster? He's got a diverse skill set sure, but he's a fringe NFL player. He's here in case Moreno/Buckhalter/Arrington don't make it out of camp or pre-season. Its the same reason we're still holding onto Torain. If by some miracle he stays healthy and Hillis or Jordan does not then he gets spared the axe.

We don't have any more RBs than what most teams go into pre-season with, we just had to cleanse a bunch of injury prone, low ceiling, 10-15 carry a game max backs and bring in guys with some potential to actually produce.

As for trading to get DL help, by all means lets here those ideas as well. A 2nd for Gabe Watson, when the Cards could still match the deal so in reality you're probably talking a 2nd and a mid-rounder to buy them out? After that who?

Last off-season three standout DTs changed teams, Kris Jenkins, Saun Rogers, and Marcus Stroud. All three have the size to play NT in a 3-4 or 4-3 (two are doing former in fact). Shanahan didn't think they were worth the equivalent of two 3rd rounders, and instead took Dwayne Robertson. Its cool that we basically got Robertson for free, but last year was the window to trade for a DT and Shanahan passed. Now they're all settled into new homes on lucrative deals. We have to wait for the next crop to get moved, possibly next year when Vince Wilfork, Gabe Watson, and Casey Hampton all going into unrestricted contract years and a better DT class on the horizon. Otherwise its throwing good money away on ****.

We signed the best FA NT this year, Ron Fields. Thats a real ****ing sad statement, but its the damn truth. They literally did everything they could to improve the DL without mortgaging the team's financial future.

Great analyisis. If we fans want to rebuild the DL it will require patients and enduring some losing seasons (2 or 3) in order to draft in the top 5 or 10 D linemen in each draft class. Of course.....going the FA route btwn 2010-2012 to land the top 1-2 D linemen, will shorten rebuilding of the D line as well.

Bowlen has given McD a 4 or 5 year window to work his way out of a Head Coaching recession of "Ups and Downs" and "Lessons Learned" thru the school of hard knocks that any 32 year old Rookie head coach will endure in the NFL.

TonyR
05-09-2009, 08:25 AM
Just make sure you don't buy anymore Bronco Jersey numbers with the players Shanny drafted btwn 2006-2008!!! Its a waste of money.....they won't be in Denver very long by the time McD is done redecorating the house...


This BS again? You really think Clady and Royal, among others, aren't safe bets to be around for a while? Seriously?

Drek
05-09-2009, 08:35 AM
Great analyisis. If we fans want to rebuild the DL it will require patients and enduring some losing seasons (2 or 3) in order to draft in the top 5 or 10 D linemen in each draft class. Of course.....going the FA route btwn 2010-2012 to land the top 1-2 D linemen, will shorten rebuilding of the D line as well.

Bowlen has given McD a 4 or 5 year window to work his way out of a Head Coaching recession of "Ups and Downs" and "Lessons Learned" thru the school of hard knocks that any 32 year old Rookie head coach will endure in the NFL.
I don't think we need to endure losing seasons at all, the offense can carry a big part of that load, and a solid secondary and LB crew will go pretty far in terms of just getting this defense back up to league average. We play in a weak division on top of that. I expect us to win more than we lose even next season.

Also, we don't need top 10 picks to get 3-4 DLs. The best NTs in the NFL today were middle to back of the first round selections, or early 2nds.

Next year you've got Gerald McCoy at the top of the class probably, who could play a Tommie Harris role in a 4-3 as an elite UT, but who also has the height and length required to be a Richard Seymour type difference maker at the 5-tech. He might not come out, but as a red shirt junior who'll be a top 10 lock, I'd expect it.

He's followed by Ndamukong Suh, another 4-3 UT/3-4 5-tech type, also a real good prospect.

Then you get to the first NT prospect, Terrence Cody. Probably a top 20 pick and the best true NT fit to come out of college in a while.

After that you've got Lawrence Marsh and Arthur Jones for 5-tech options, Jarvis Jenkins and Boo Robinson for NT options. Thats just the first handful. Vince Oghobaase looks like a great 5-tech prospect as well.

I'd take any of the NT options (Cody, Jenkins, and Robinson) over Ron Brace, and as a strictly NT type very possibly over Raji. The UT/5-tech types are much deeper too, this year we had guys like Hood and Jerry as the top penetrating 300 pound DLs, both of whom are pretty short and physically are not great fits for what you look for in a 5-tech. Next year you've got a half dozen legit first day potentials in the 6'4" or better range.

That is the one thing that I don't like about the trade to get Alphonso Smith. Love the prospect, totally get our need at CB both short and long term, he's also probably a better CB prospect than anyone coming out next year. But next year's DL class looks pretty solid at this point, and it would've been nice to have two firsts to attack it with.

Rabb
05-09-2009, 08:37 AM
Other than Hillis (and Pittman, but he's too damn old and injury prone now) our RBs sucked. Last I checked running backs are a pretty integral part of an NFL offense. McDaniels has been forced to rebuild the offensive backfield just as much as he needs to overhaul the defensive line.

I think this goes unsaid and unnoticed way too often actually, it is probably because our defense was SO bad that we never really noticed any offensive deficiencies...not to mention we put up great stats on paper.

I agree with you 100% though, people think the defense was all that had to be fixed, I would even go as far as saying the only positions that were 100% solid were on the offensive line and to a lesser extent our starting receivers...but even the receiving corps needs some love.

He was smart to add some depth to these positions in any case, no matter how bad people hate the picks

fdf
05-09-2009, 09:18 AM
Because McD views these players as old furniture left over from the Shanny era.

A lot of them were. There's not a single released player that I would want back at the price they would have cost. Can you think of one?

As to trades, there are good arguments on both sides of the Cutler issue and I don't intend to rehash the rehash of that. But overwhelmingly, the house cleaning has been a good thing (including the assistant coach housecleaning). I think we're pretty much down to the guys who are going to compete in camp. If Hillis has recovered from his injury and outperforms other running backs in doing what the coach wants him to do in camp, I expect him to make the team. If not, he won't.

Your metaphor of McDaniels as a woman moving into a new house works both ways. If the furniture in the new house sucks or is broken, you replace it. I don't see any evidence that McDaniels is just replacing furniture for the fun of it. If he releases Clady and Harris, I will apologize and agree with you. Until then, you are just weaving bad metaphors out of People Magazine amateur-psychobabble-therapy articles.

Should he have kept Slowick and our safety combo and Engleberger just to make you comfy he wasn't replacing furniture for the fun of it?

Cito Pelon
05-09-2009, 09:18 AM
anyone else think McDaniels is stockpiling these RBs so that when injury happens to another team at the position, he can wheel and deal for picks?

or, just the fact that the Pats and Broncos, lost to injury something like 12 RBs combined last season is my guess as to why McDaniels is bringing in a lot of depth.

look at our roster. Moreno and Hillis are the only safe bets to make the final roster. Buckhalter and Torain have a strong likelihood of being injured before the season starts. Arrington will be a ST return man, 3rd down back and probably a game day inactive often. Jordan is a short yardage goal line back and depth. and Walker is just camp fodder.

i am not worried at all that Hillis may get traded. he is so versatile and exactly the type of guy the Pats like

Reasonable. Usually, 5 backs will see opening day. I'm thinking Moreno, Hillis, Buck, Arrington, Jordan. Torain as Eddie Mac said will be PUP, no way he'll be able to compete til November. The RB is actually a little thin, which is why they grabbed Walker and the UDFA Kestahn. Den may have to pick up some more, actually, because Walker is not PS eligible. Been in the League too long, I believe.

Orange_Beard
05-09-2009, 09:37 AM
Other than Hillis (and Pittman, but he's too damn old and injury prone now) our RBs sucked. Last I checked running backs are a pretty integral part of an NFL offense. McDaniels has been forced to rebuild the offensive backfield just as much as he needs to overhaul the defensive line.

Do you seriously think Walker has a legit shot to make the 53 man roster? He's got a diverse skill set sure, but he's a fringe NFL player. He's here in case Moreno/Buckhalter/Arrington don't make it out of camp or pre-season. Its the same reason we're still holding onto Torain. If by some miracle he stays healthy and Hillis or Jordan does not then he gets spared the axe.

We don't have any more RBs than what most teams go into pre-season with, we just had to cleanse a bunch of injury prone, low ceiling, 10-15 carry a game max backs and bring in guys with some potential to actually produce.

As for trading to get DL help, by all means lets here those ideas as well. A 2nd for Gabe Watson, when the Cards could still match the deal so in reality you're probably talking a 2nd and a mid-rounder to buy them out? After that who?

Last off-season three standout DTs changed teams, Kris Jenkins, Saun Rogers, and Marcus Stroud. All three have the size to play NT in a 3-4 or 4-3 (two are doing former in fact). Shanahan didn't think they were worth the equivalent of two 3rd rounders, and instead took Dwayne Robertson. Its cool that we basically got Robertson for free, but last year was the window to trade for a DT and Shanahan passed. Now they're all settled into new homes on lucrative deals. We have to wait for the next crop to get moved, possibly next year when Vince Wilfork, Gabe Watson, and Casey Hampton all going into unrestricted contract years and a better DT class on the horizon. Otherwise its throwing good money away on ****.

We signed the best FA NT this year, Ron Fields. Thats a real ****ing sad statement, but its the damn truth. They literally did everything they could to improve the DL without mortgaging the team's financial future.

So let me put some words in your mouth..... What you are saying is we should keep adding running backs just because they are there, they don't cost anything.

Like I said before, if we defense the run like we did last year, it will not matter who are running backs are or how many we have.

I don't really believe that we need "all-pro" D-linemen. We just need guys who can clog up the middle and stop the run. It will take time to build a stable of guys like the Pats have.

You rip on our talent at going into last season, I would venture to say that we had more talent at RB then at D-Line. We have Less then a bunch of role players on the D-Line.

Rabb
05-09-2009, 11:12 AM
it is really hard to judge the D line because we will eventually be in a scheme we have not seen them in, under a new coach that knows defense

honest to God, it has to be better than last year

gyldenlove
05-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Great analyisis. If we fans want to rebuild the DL it will require patients and enduring some losing seasons (2 or 3) in order to draft in the top 5 or 10 D linemen in each draft class. Of course.....going the FA route btwn 2010-2012 to land the top 1-2 D linemen, will shorten rebuilding of the D line as well.

Bowlen has given McD a 4 or 5 year window to work his way out of a Head Coaching recession of "Ups and Downs" and "Lessons Learned" thru the school of hard knocks that any 32 year old Rookie head coach will endure in the NFL.

So we are up to giving him 4 or 5 years of suckage before we fire his ass?

gyldenlove
05-09-2009, 11:51 AM
I don't think we need to endure losing seasons at all, the offense can carry a big part of that load, and a solid secondary and LB crew will go pretty far in terms of just getting this defense back up to league average. We play in a weak division on top of that. I expect us to win more than we lose even next season.

Also, we don't need top 10 picks to get 3-4 DLs. The best NTs in the NFL today were middle to back of the first round selections, or early 2nds.

Next year you've got Gerald McCoy at the top of the class probably, who could play a Tommie Harris role in a 4-3 as an elite UT, but who also has the height and length required to be a Richard Seymour type difference maker at the 5-tech. He might not come out, but as a red shirt junior who'll be a top 10 lock, I'd expect it.

He's followed by Ndamukong Suh, another 4-3 UT/3-4 5-tech type, also a real good prospect.

Then you get to the first NT prospect, Terrence Cody. Probably a top 20 pick and the best true NT fit to come out of college in a while.

After that you've got Lawrence Marsh and Arthur Jones for 5-tech options, Jarvis Jenkins and Boo Robinson for NT options. Thats just the first handful. Vince Oghobaase looks like a great 5-tech prospect as well.

I'd take any of the NT options (Cody, Jenkins, and Robinson) over Ron Brace, and as a strictly NT type very possibly over Raji. The UT/5-tech types are much deeper too, this year we had guys like Hood and Jerry as the top penetrating 300 pound DLs, both of whom are pretty short and physically are not great fits for what you look for in a 5-tech. Next year you've got a half dozen legit first day potentials in the 6'4" or better range.

That is the one thing that I don't like about the trade to get Alphonso Smith. Love the prospect, totally get our need at CB both short and long term, he's also probably a better CB prospect than anyone coming out next year. But next year's DL class looks pretty solid at this point, and it would've been nice to have two firsts to attack it with.

There are a few juniors who may come out next year if they fear a rookie salary cap coming into place in 2011, such as Marvin Austin, Carlos Dunlap and Cameron Heyward, all 3 should be able to find a place in a 3-4 front.

With so many teams going to 3-4, there will be a premium on 3-4 defensive linemen as we saw with Raji and Jackson this year. Next year will be even worse with the quality of DL expected in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Cody shoot up the draft boards and pass more skilled DTs.

Mccoy is interesting because he has so much strength that he could probably play both inside and out in a 3-4, he would need to add a bit of weight, but he has upper and lower body strength like few others and he could be a real force if he gets to use that power to move offensive linemen around.

The big issue I still see is that if we are not drafting in the top 10 (and unless Chicago really fail, that doesn't look likely) we are not going to get the top ranked NT or 5-tech, which leaves us with a real value dilemma, we can either settle for a better player who is a worse fit or a worse player who is a better fit or we can do like this year and say "Damn the torpedoes" and draft players for other positions.

Drek
05-09-2009, 07:00 PM
So let me put some words in your mouth..... What you are saying is we should keep adding running backs just because they are there, they don't cost anything.
We're adding running backs because here's a run down from the guys we had last year:
Selvin Young: Failed his team physical.
Michael Pittman: Old and injury prone. Can't catch.
Andre Hall: can't hang onto a damn football. Kinda key for a RB.
Ryan Torain: Still here, but he's had serious injuries the second he steps on the field for a calendar year now. Time to get worried about his ability to ever make it.
Tatum Bell: was selling cell phones before we resigned him, one dimensional speed back who can't catch or pass pro at an NFL level.
PJ Pope: practice squad body who should never see the active 53 man of an NFL team short of dire emergencies.
Cory Boyd: Not only of questionable character, but also of questionable skill across the board, with no standout ability that is decidedly 53 man roster worthy.

The only guy we had last year who at this point belongs on an NFL roster is Peyton Hillis. We're adding running backs because after how snake bit the RBs where last year we'd be foolish to try going into camp and pre-season under manned at the position. If Young had passed his physical we probably never sign Walker, but he didn't, so he's gone and someone needs to fill that hole. The unit as a whole though? Desperately needed the rebuilding its been given.

Like I said before, if we defense the run like we did last year, it will not matter who are running backs are or how many we have.
It won't? I'm pretty sure a ball control offense that can actually prolong drives when it gets up by a score or two goes a long ways to helping a defense return the favor and end opposing drives. Its a huge element we lacked last season and its why teams kept surging back on the Broncos after the offense would spot big leads. Because the opposing defense would adjust, Bates wouldn't, and the offense would suddenly start racking up a string of three and out drives. The end result? Our defense spent way too damn much time on the field.

You get ahead and then create prolonged drives and your D is fresher and more capable of being effective. The opposing offense doesn't get to find its rhythm as easily. End game of every aspect of your team being more effective.

I don't really believe that we need "all-pro" D-linemen. We just need guys who can clog up the middle and stop the run. It will take time to build a stable of guys like the Pats have.
Hence the Ron Fields signing. He's exactly what you describe. A big run stuffer to put in the middle. He's not an every down player, but with him, Powell, and some others rotating through depending on our front we might actually see a bit more effectiveness. He was the best available guy by the very criteria you just laid out available this off-season. Unless of course you think giving Albert Haynesworth $17M a season to be a gap plugger would've been better.

You rip on our talent at going into last season, I would venture to say that we had more talent at RB then at D-Line. We have Less then a bunch of role players on the D-Line.
Completely agree. But how about an analogy? If my car is on its last legs and my roof has some serious leaks in it I'll want to fix both, right? So I call around and I can get the car fixed now, but the roofer won't be available for another three months. Should I sit on my thumb waiting for the guy or should I get my car fixed?

The DL help flat out wasn't available. Its that simple. The best FA 3-4 DL who didn't get a massive overpay of a contract we signed already. The best draftee went too early for us to get, despite reports that we tried to move up for him. The next best draftee happened to play along side previously mentioned best option and some have said he would've been lucky to go in the 3rd round in a year that wasn't so starved for DT talent.

The last time two side by side starters on the DL went out the same year and were both drafted highly? Julius Peppers and Ryan Sims. The known star went to the NFL and kept playing at a high level. His former teammate? Massive bust who is now a rotational backup with his second team.

There are a few juniors who may come out next year if they fear a rookie salary cap coming into place in 2011, such as Marvin Austin, Carlos Dunlap and Cameron Heyward, all 3 should be able to find a place in a 3-4 front.

With so many teams going to 3-4, there will be a premium on 3-4 defensive linemen as we saw with Raji and Jackson this year. Next year will be even worse with the quality of DL expected in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Cody shoot up the draft boards and pass more skilled DTs.

Mccoy is interesting because he has so much strength that he could probably play both inside and out in a 3-4, he would need to add a bit of weight, but he has upper and lower body strength like few others and he could be a real force if he gets to use that power to move offensive linemen around.

The big issue I still see is that if we are not drafting in the top 10 (and unless Chicago really fail, that doesn't look likely) we are not going to get the top ranked NT or 5-tech, which leaves us with a real value dilemma, we can either settle for a better player who is a worse fit or a worse player who is a better fit or we can do like this year and say "Damn the torpedoes" and draft players for other positions.

I'm not so sure we'll see such a big rush after 3-4 talent next year. A lot of teams have already orchestrated those system changes and teams like Green Bay and KC are going to be hard pressed to want to commit further top 10 money to the DL yet again. There might possibly be some good FA options on the market which will also devalue the draft pool. Most importantly, it'll be a much deeper class at the position, so more teams will feel like settling for a 2nd or 3rd rounder isn't a bad alternative.

A guy like Cody could easily wind up in the top spot of next year's draft. Big Daddy Wilkinson did and Cody is the most like him as a prospect that we've seen since. But that just means another worthwhile alternative could be there for us.

I think Chicago will post something between a 7-9 to 9-7 season, giving us a 10-20 pick. Thats prime grounds for a good DL in most draft classes and should work out just fine for us. The biggest thing that could change that (other than Fields or Powell breaking out as a stud) would be Kyle Orton's performance. If he isn't looking as good as McDaniels expects I bet we look long and hard at Tim Tebow in next year's draft, possibly even in the first round.

Orange_Beard
05-09-2009, 07:34 PM
It won't? I'm pretty sure a ball control offense that can actually prolong drives when it gets up by a score or two goes a long ways to helping a defense return the favor and end opposing drives. Its a huge element we lacked last season and its why teams kept surging back on the Broncos after the offense would spot big leads. Because the opposing defense would adjust, Bates wouldn't, and the offense would suddenly start racking up a string of three and out drives. The end result? Our defense spent way too damn much time on the field.


I would like to respond to all of this, but I don't have time right now.

Because we had a freak amount of injuries at RB, we should commit all are offseason resources to running backs? The Pat's O has been very successful and they don't have much talent at running back. Well none that can stay healthy.

There are way to many "if" factors to assume that the Broncos are going to be able to play a ball control offense. How will these linemen translate into the new offense? Who will be the QB and can he stay healthy?

The best Defense is not a good offense.
The best Defense is a good Defense. The line was so bad. We were pushed all over the field. To blame the D's problems on the O is (IMHO) A BIG stretch.

****, running backs are not going to fix the 29th rated D in the league. There is just no way. I sure hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it.

I applaud you for being able to look at this team through "orange colored" glasses. There is simply not enough talent or depth on defense.

DHallblows
05-09-2009, 08:24 PM
A lot of them were. There's not a single released player that I would want back at the price they would have cost. Can you think of one?

Mike Leach

gyldenlove
05-09-2009, 08:35 PM
I'm not so sure we'll see such a big rush after 3-4 talent next year. A lot of teams have already orchestrated those system changes and teams like Green Bay and KC are going to be hard pressed to want to commit further top 10 money to the DL yet again. There might possibly be some good FA options on the market which will also devalue the draft pool. Most importantly, it'll be a much deeper class at the position, so more teams will feel like settling for a 2nd or 3rd rounder isn't a bad alternative.

A guy like Cody could easily wind up in the top spot of next year's draft. Big Daddy Wilkinson did and Cody is the most like him as a prospect that we've seen since. But that just means another worthwhile alternative could be there for us.

I think Chicago will post something between a 7-9 to 9-7 season, giving us a 10-20 pick. Thats prime grounds for a good DL in most draft classes and should work out just fine for us. The biggest thing that could change that (other than Fields or Powell breaking out as a stud) would be Kyle Orton's performance. If he isn't looking as good as McDaniels expects I bet we look long and hard at Tim Tebow in next year's draft, possibly even in the first round.

Kansas City especially is a team that will draft DL next year if they are in position to take a Gerald Mccoy or Terrence Cody. Pioli has shown that he has no problem taking need over value and if the Chiefs defense stink as bad as expected this year and Dorsey doesn't find a home in the 3-4, I fully expect them to go with another fatty early.

Green Bay may not be willing to pay big money to a DL, but I don't see them draft in the top 10 so that shouldn't be an issue. Arizona is a team that could end up drafting quite high and take a DL for 3-4. The Jets and Browns could both go that way as well and both teams look like prime candidates to draft early.

I would say at least 4 teams that play 3-4 or would consider switching to 3-4 look be drafting in the top 15, and that could put a premium on defensive linemen as it is harder to find players who fit the 3-4 than 4-3 given that it is more common to play 4-3 in college.

I don't think Mcdaniels would wany any part of Tebow, his accuracy doesn't seem to be what Mcdaniels prefers in his QBs and unless he can get a top prospect I don't think he is going to be willing to admit that trading Cutler was a mistake so early on.

gyldenlove
05-09-2009, 08:39 PM
I would like to respond to all of this, but I don't have time right now.

Because we had a freak amount of injuries at RB, we should commit all are offseason resources to running backs? The Pat's O has been very successful and they don't have much talent at running back. Well none that can stay healthy.

There are way to many "if" factors to assume that the Broncos are going to be able to play a ball control offense. How will these linemen translate into the new offense? Who will be the QB and can he stay healthy?

The best Defense is not a good offense.
The best Defense is a good Defense. The line was so bad. We were pushed all over the field. To blame the D's problems on the O is (IMHO) A BIG stretch.

****, running backs are not going to fix the 29th rated D in the league. There is just no way. I sure hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it.

I applaud you for being able to look at this team through "orange colored" glasses. There is simply not enough talent or depth on defense.

I agree here, while it is nice to have a solid ground game to run the clock when you are ahead by a couple, fact is that we were rarely ahead by a couple since our defense couldn't keep people off the scoreboard.

If you look at the teams that succeeded last year, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Giants. The common denominator there is strong defense lead by a strong front. Run defense is a much stronger predictor of winning than run offense is, if you can stop people you have a good probability of winning, wether you run over them or not.

Cito Pelon
05-09-2009, 09:03 PM
I agree here, while it is nice to have a solid ground game to run the clock when you are ahead by a couple, fact is that we were rarely ahead by a couple since our defense couldn't keep people off the scoreboard.

If you look at the teams that succeeded last year, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Giants. The common denominator there is strong defense lead by a strong front. Run defense is a much stronger predictor of winning than run offense is, if you can stop people you have a good probability of winning, wether you run over them or not.

There's more than one way to win Titles. The object right now is to win the first Title, the AFCW Title.

Cito Pelon
05-09-2009, 09:15 PM
We're adding running backs because here's a run down from the guys we had last year:
Selvin Young: Failed his team physical.
Michael Pittman: Old and injury prone. Can't catch.
Andre Hall: can't hang onto a damn football. Kinda key for a RB.
Ryan Torain: Still here, but he's had serious injuries the second he steps on the field for a calendar year now. Time to get worried about his ability to ever make it.
Tatum Bell: was selling cell phones before we resigned him, one dimensional speed back who can't catch or pass pro at an NFL level.
PJ Pope: practice squad body who should never see the active 53 man of an NFL team short of dire emergencies.
Cory Boyd: Not only of questionable character, but also of questionable skill across the board, with no standout ability that is decidedly 53 man roster worthy.

The only guy we had last year who at this point belongs on an NFL roster is Peyton Hillis. We're adding running backs because after how snake bit the RBs where last year we'd be foolish to try going into camp and pre-season under manned at the position. If Young had passed his physical we probably never sign Walker, but he didn't, so he's gone and someone needs to fill that hole. The unit as a whole though? Desperately needed the rebuilding its been given.


It won't? I'm pretty sure a ball control offense that can actually prolong drives when it gets up by a score or two goes a long ways to helping a defense return the favor and end opposing drives. Its a huge element we lacked last season and its why teams kept surging back on the Broncos after the offense would spot big leads. Because the opposing defense would adjust, Bates wouldn't, and the offense would suddenly start racking up a string of three and out drives. The end result? Our defense spent way too damn much time on the field.

You get ahead and then create prolonged drives and your D is fresher and more capable of being effective. The opposing offense doesn't get to find its rhythm as easily. End game of every aspect of your team being more effective.


Hence the Ron Fields signing. He's exactly what you describe. A big run stuffer to put in the middle. He's not an every down player, but with him, Powell, and some others rotating through depending on our front we might actually see a bit more effectiveness. He was the best available guy by the very criteria you just laid out available this off-season. Unless of course you think giving Albert Haynesworth $17M a season to be a gap plugger would've been better.


Completely agree. But how about an analogy? If my car is on its last legs and my roof has some serious leaks in it I'll want to fix both, right? So I call around and I can get the car fixed now, but the roofer won't be available for another three months. Should I sit on my thumb waiting for the guy or should I get my car fixed?

The DL help flat out wasn't available. Its that simple. The best FA 3-4 DL who didn't get a massive overpay of a contract we signed already. The best draftee went too early for us to get, despite reports that we tried to move up for him. The next best draftee happened to play along side previously mentioned best option and some have said he would've been lucky to go in the 3rd round in a year that wasn't so starved for DT talent.

The last time two side by side starters on the DL went out the same year and were both drafted highly? Julius Peppers and Ryan Sims. The known star went to the NFL and kept playing at a high level. His former teammate? Massive bust who is now a rotational backup with his second team.



I'm not so sure we'll see such a big rush after 3-4 talent next year. A lot of teams have already orchestrated those system changes and teams like Green Bay and KC are going to be hard pressed to want to commit further top 10 money to the DL yet again. There might possibly be some good FA options on the market which will also devalue the draft pool. Most importantly, it'll be a much deeper class at the position, so more teams will feel like settling for a 2nd or 3rd rounder isn't a bad alternative.

A guy like Cody could easily wind up in the top spot of next year's draft. Big Daddy Wilkinson did and Cody is the most like him as a prospect that we've seen since. But that just means another worthwhile alternative could be there for us.

I think Chicago will post something between a 7-9 to 9-7 season, giving us a 10-20 pick. Thats prime grounds for a good DL in most draft classes and should work out just fine for us. The biggest thing that could change that (other than Fields or Powell breaking out as a stud) would be Kyle Orton's performance. If he isn't looking as good as McDaniels expects I bet we look long and hard at Tim Tebow in next year's draft, possibly even in the first round.

That was pretty good. Except for the last sentence. Tebow will not be a Bronco.

fdf
05-09-2009, 11:24 PM
Mike Leach

I know this is not PC around here. Leach was a fine snapper. But his replacement can back up OL in a spot and is just as good a snapper. That was, therefore, a small but not insignificant upgrade. That's the closest example there is to a close call.

Drek
05-10-2009, 06:43 AM
I would like to respond to all of this, but I don't have time right now.

Because we had a freak amount of injuries at RB, we should commit all are offseason resources to running backs? The Pat's O has been very successful and they don't have much talent at running back. Well none that can stay healthy.
The bulk of our off-season resources? Andre Goodman got more guaranteed money than we've promised every FA RB COMBINED. Brian Dawkins is pretty close. Renaldo Hill got more than any one RB, and so did Andre Davis and Ron Fields.

Not a one of these RBs has a contract we can't just throw in the trash can the second we find a better option. Thats why they're here by the way, because they were better options than what we had previously.

The alternative to signing this many RBs was for us to go into camp with Moreno, Hillis, Torain, and what, retain Aldrige and Hall? Pittman and Bell where both on contract years, so if we're signing deals why would we make those two a priority? Young failed his physical for a team that initially tried to clear Al Wilson with a serious spinal/neck injury, how many teams you think are going to clear him to get on a football field? If we didn't sign a **** ton of backs we'd be going into camp with five or six RBs, half of which we know have massive enough flaws to not really be guys you want on your 53 man roster.

There are way to many "if" factors to assume that the Broncos are going to be able to play a ball control offense. How will these linemen translate into the new offense? Who will be the QB and can he stay healthy?
Last I knew a whole lot of QBs could take a snap, turn, and hand off. As for the transition to a new offense? Bates and Cutler both said they were stealing heavily from McDaniels last year, and we'll be retaining the ZBS in some capacity, probably a significant one or I doubt Dennison and Turner would've been retained. I don't see the problem there, as it was we were moving away from the stereotypical Broncos ZBS OLs and towards a more well rounded OL who fit in both a traditional blocking scheme on passing or running downs, while still mobile enough to run the ZBS.


Who said anything about best? I'm just hoping for in the top 20. The first step to getting there is fixing what holes can be fixed (like the DBs), seeing what value is currently on the roster at LB and DL, and assembling an offense that can put together some consistent drives and not fail in the red zone, so as to take as much of the pressure off the D as possible.

[quote]****, running backs are not going to fix the 29th rated D in the league. There is just no way. I sure hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it.

I applaud you for being able to look at this team through "orange colored" glasses. There is simply not enough talent or depth on defense.
Its not orange colored glasses. I'm definitely a glass half full kind of fan, but if you don't think an offense that can sustain drives, an offense that is dedicated to running the ball consistently, can help a defense significantly then I just don't know what to tell you. Want examples? There are dozens. One of which being our own Denver Broncos of 2007. A defense that changed schemes to start the year, then again mid-season, and was only better off talent wise in the defensive backfield and that was playing opposite a weaker offense that did show more consistent dedication to the running game and more red zone production was 19th in the league, not 29th. We dropped from the lower middle tier of defenses to the bottom rung in a single season thanks to an inconsistent offense that put the D in bad spots as often as not and poor safety play. Isn't a better example of a defense getting ****ed by their offense than our own Broncos last year.

TheReverend
05-10-2009, 08:02 AM
A defense that changed schemes to start the year, then again mid-season, and was only better off talent wise in the defensive backfield and that was playing opposite a weaker offense that did show more consistent dedication to the running game and more red zone production was 19th in the league, not 29th. We dropped from the lower middle tier of defenses to the bottom rung in a single season thanks to an inconsistent offense that put the D in bad spots as often as not and poor safety play. Isn't a better example of a defense getting ****ed by their offense than our own Broncos last year.

I wonder if you ever stop talking out of your ass.

Where did you get ANY of that ****...?

Denver's defense was a precisely middle of the pack team with an ave starting FP of 30.2 for 16th in the NFL.

Despite that FP, it ranked 31st in:
yards per drive allowed with 36.86
points per drive allowed with 2.58
punts forced with .321 per drive

And ranked dead last in the insanely important turnovers per drive.

But, right, the offense put them in a bad spot... it's all Cutler's fault.

You continue to be one of the dumbest and full of **** human beings I've ever had the displeasure of encountering.

TheReverend
05-10-2009, 08:07 AM
FYI, Denver's Offense had the WORST starting field position in the NFL.

People like Drek can rationalize all they want, but it was the defense putting the offense in bad spots. I have plenty of charts on FP and how it correllates with points and turnover likelihood, if anyone wants.

TheReverend
05-10-2009, 08:10 AM
All inclusive chart on Offensive FP:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/3098993225_fc5aa77dd7.jpg?v=0

Orange_Beard
05-10-2009, 09:05 AM
The bulk of our off-season resources? Andre Goodman got more guaranteed money than we've promised every FA RB COMBINED. Brian Dawkins is pretty close. Renaldo Hill got more than any one RB, and so did Andre Davis and Ron Fields.

It takes time and money to scout these guys, both are a resource.

Not a one of these RBs has a contract we can't just throw in the trash can the second we find a better option. Thats why they're here by the way, because they were better options than what we had previously.

Saying that gives me 0 confidence. Let's build a team with a bunch of sh*t.

The alternative to signing this many RBs was for us to go into camp with Moreno, Hillis, Torain, and what, retain Aldrige and Hall? Pittman and Bell where both on contract years, so if we're signing deals why would we make those two a priority? Young failed his physical for a team that initially tried to clear Al Wilson with a serious spinal/neck injury, how many teams you think are going to clear him to get on a football field? If we didn't sign a **** ton of backs we'd be going into camp with five or six RBs, half of which we know have massive enough flaws to not really be guys you want on your 53 man roster.


Last I knew a whole lot of QBs could take a snap, turn, and hand off. As for the transition to a new offense? Bates and Cutler both said they were stealing heavily from McDaniels last year, and we'll be retaining the ZBS in some capacity, probably a significant one or I doubt Dennison and Turner would've been retained. I don't see the problem there, as it was we were moving away from the stereotypical Broncos ZBS OLs and towards a more well rounded OL who fit in both a traditional blocking scheme on passing or running downs, while still mobile enough to run the ZBS.

Makes me think of the Bears Offense.

The best Defense is not a good offense.
The best Defense is a good Defense. The line was so bad. We were pushed all over the field. To blame the D's problems on the O is (IMHO) A BIG stretch.
Who said anything about best? I'm just hoping for in the top 20. The first step to getting there is fixing what holes can be fixed (like the DBs), seeing what value is currently on the roster at LB and DL, and assembling an offense that can put together some consistent drives and not fail in the red zone, so as to take as much of the pressure off the D as possible.

Re watch a game from last year, especially late in the year. What you will see is every player on D (even the corners) having to play run first, then try to defense the pass. Then get 0 pressure on the QB on pass plays. I really don't believe that there was much of a problem at CB. No corner can run with an average wide out for 10+ seconds. We could have gone into the year with Bly and Champ and been fine.


Its not orange colored glasses. I'm definitely a glass half full kind of fan, but if you don't think an offense that can sustain drives, an offense that is dedicated to running the ball consistently, can help a defense significantly then I just don't know what to tell you.

I am a firm believer in this concept. However you first need to have a D that can stop the run in order for it to work. How is this D going to stop the run enough to keep any other team committed to the run from playing ball control on us?

Want examples? There are dozens. One of which being our own Denver Broncos of 2007. A defense that changed schemes to start the year, then again mid-season, and was only better off talent wise in the defensive backfield and that was playing opposite a weaker offense that did show more consistent dedication to the running game and more red zone production was 19th in the league, not 29th. We dropped from the lower middle tier of defenses to the bottom rung in a single season thanks to an inconsistent offense that put the D in bad spots as often as not and poor safety play. Isn't a better example of a defense getting ****ed by their offense than our own Broncos last year.


I am to lazy too look it up, but I believe that 2007 D, was around the worst in the league at giving up 3rd down conversions. Hard to blame the O for that.[/quote]


IMHO this team needs to get stronger up the middle on D. NT/DT, MLB, Dawkins was a great add. Until that happens, I just don't see it. I REALLY hope I am wrong and these players that are here all have break out years, but I have watched most of the for a couple of years now and I just don't see it happening.

I wish we could spend the afternoon going back and forth a on this, I am better talking then typing. When I made the "orange colored' glass remark, it was not intended as a rip. I wish I could look at the Broncos with the "orange glasses", but after the way the last couple of season have ended I seem to have lost mine.

Drek
05-10-2009, 09:45 AM
FYI, Denver's Offense had the WORST starting field position in the NFL.

People like Drek can rationalize all they want, but it was the defense putting the offense in bad spots. I have plenty of charts on FP and how it correllates with points and turnover likelihood, if anyone wants.

**** Rev, why not learn to read?

At no point did I say the D didn't suck, but the suck of the D last year was even greater than '07, when the talent was by and large actually superior and/or in their natural positions, AND the unit wasn't asked to change schemes twice in one season.

So why was that? Woodyard and Larsen are better than Winborn and Louis Green right? Most people around here think so. Marcus Thomas is an upgrade over Alvin "I haven't played on Sunday since Denver cut me" McKinley. Ekuban for 2/3rds of the season has to be better than a full season of Engelberger right? DJ plays better at WOLB than MLB right?

Yet the D got worse. Significantly. And it did so before either Champ or DJ got hurt.

Just so happened that our 2008 offense put up more yardage and more 1st downs than the '07 offense, yet somehow actually had a shorter possession time per game (bottom 10 in the league by the way). Thats indicative of some sort of offensive failing.

The offense didn't cause the defense to suck, but pouring gasoline on a car fire doesn't help to put it out either.


I am to lazy too look it up, but I believe that 2007 D, was around the worst in the league at giving up 3rd down conversions. Hard to blame the O for that.
No ****. I'm not saying that the '07 defense was even close to good, yet somehow the unit actually got worse in '08, despite everything from a talent and scheme standpoint being in its favor (other than safety, which we now know in hindsight).


IMHO this team needs to get stronger up the middle on D. NT/DT, MLB, Dawkins was a great add. Until that happens, I just don't see it. I REALLY hope I am wrong and these players that are here all have break out years, but I have watched most of the for a couple of years now and I just don't see it happening.
Again, no ****. We need some serious help on the DL. But people constantly repeating crap like "why we sign another RB? Why not get a DT?" doesn't change the fact that there isn't a single DT on the market worth signing. What should they do, try and get Dan Wilkinson to come out of retirement? Bring back Kieth Traylor? Those honestly might be the best options on the market. As for a trade, Gabe Watson is probably the most available NT type from that end, and the Cards put his RFA tag up to a 2nd rounder, so thats the minimum starting point.

It doesn't matter how much we all wish there was some good FA DT out there to be had, or even how much McDaniels, Bowlen, etc. wish for it. It just isn't the case. So they can either keep crying over spilled milk or they can try to make the rest of the team as good as they can as fast as they can, so that hopefully we stop being a total bottom feeder defensively, making the jump to "good" that much smaller when some legitimate DL solutions are available.

TheReverend
05-10-2009, 10:57 AM
**** Rev, why not learn to read?

At no point did I say the D didn't suck, but the suck of the D last year was even greater than '07, when the talent was by and large actually superior and/or in their natural positions, AND the unit wasn't asked to change schemes twice in one season.

So why was that? Woodyard and Larsen are better than Winborn and Louis Green right? Most people around here think so. Marcus Thomas is an upgrade over Alvin "I haven't played on Sunday since Denver cut me" McKinley. Ekuban for 2/3rds of the season has to be better than a full season of Engelberger right? DJ plays better at WOLB than MLB right?

Yet the D got worse. Significantly. And it did so before either Champ or DJ got hurt.

Just so happened that our 2008 offense put up more yardage and more 1st downs than the '07 offense, yet somehow actually had a shorter possession time per game (bottom 10 in the league by the way). Thats indicative of some sort of offensive failing.

The offense didn't cause the defense to suck, but pouring gasoline on a car fire doesn't help to put it out either.

Your statement was the offense put the defense in poor situations... which is completely untrue.

Feel free to reference this http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

It's a good compilation showing who put who in bad situations and you can reference that to 2007 as well.

DHallblows
05-10-2009, 01:33 PM
I know this is not PC around here. Leach was a fine snapper. But his replacement can back up OL in a spot and is just as good a snapper. That was, therefore, a small but not insignificant upgrade. That's the closest example there is to a close call.

Upgrading our long snapper from a 4th string TE to a 4th string OL is an unnecessary pay increase

tsiguy96
05-10-2009, 01:37 PM
Upgrading our long snapper from a 4th string TE to a 4th string OL is an unnecessary pay increase

it was a pay increase of like 140k per year

statistically insignificant.

summerdenver
05-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Your statement was the offense put the defense in poor situations... which is completely untrue.

Feel free to reference this http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

It's a good compilation showing who put who in bad situations and you can reference that to 2007 as well.

I did not realize out offense did so poorly on TOs - which partly supports Drek's original contention that offense did not help them out - (Correct me if I misunderstood you Drek).

Personally i think it is too much to ask from such a young team with so many injuries. It seemed to me like our off had to score every time they had the ball to saty in contention. I would venture a guess that our offense TOP and TO ratio would look much better when Pittman and Hillis were playing.

Drek
05-11-2009, 05:12 AM
Your statement was the offense put the defense in poor situations... which is completely untrue.

Feel free to reference this http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

It's a good compilation showing who put who in bad situations and you can reference that to 2007 as well.

Again showing off a total lack of comprehension.

Did the defense screw the offense pretty regularly? Sure did. But the offense returned the favor a lot more often than you'd want it to.

We knew by about week three that the defense was a POS. But instead of using a capable offense to reduce the pressure on them Bates and Cutler used it as an excuse to get pass happy and not play controlled football. Its why that wonderful little chart you linked has us as a cellar dweller on turnovers, despite being top of the league in everything else, and why we actually had a shorter time of possession in '08 than we did in '07, when the offense was significantly less productive than the '08 unit but was more balanced in its play calling and run/pass implementation.

I'm not saying the offense was the cause for our defensive woes, but the style of offense we ran last year greatly exacerbated the problems of an already horrible D. Going to a more run balanced offense WILL take some pressure off the D. They might still suck, but we'll minimize the amount of time they'll be exposed if we can execute a capable ball control offense.

As for Football Outsiders, I've said my take on their data before. Its nothing particularly special, let me know when they get a data model that isn't rife with variability and potential source of error. Football is a game that doesn't apply itself well to a statistical projection model a la baseball because you don't have a large enough sample size across generally the same field of comparative items to yield any form of accuracy or comparability. In baseball you have very direct one on one competitions which almost all players, teams, and divisions face in a directly correlated system. In football its tough to even compare teams within a division without inherently breeding too much assumed margin of error into the numerical model.