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tsiguy96
05-07-2009, 02:22 PM
why you think shanahan really got fired? him and bowlen havent spoken since then, and the move came so unexpectedly, there HAD to be something personal that happened.

bowlen talked about taking back the team, being the one in charge etc etc. but it never truly came out why he was fired. i honestly dont believe lack of success was the problem because the team was kinda going in a positive direction (besides slowick..), i think he had another year safety net as far as perforamnce reasons to NOT be fired given the development of a lot of player. any thoughts?

Hotrod
05-07-2009, 02:34 PM
Slowick among others.

Shannys was loyal to a fault and it cost him and this franchise. IMHO

C130Herkload
05-07-2009, 03:17 PM
lack of intimacy.

BroncoMan4ever
05-07-2009, 04:13 PM
i say it was Slowik.

WyoLaw
05-07-2009, 04:24 PM
10 years of futility. Pretty simple, Bowlen was tired of being average. Starting strong and finishing with a wimper. Outside of 2005 and hosting the AFC Championship game, Shanahan hasn't done anything since Super Bowl 33.

DomCasual
05-07-2009, 04:31 PM
I thought this was an interesting column - from a few months ago. I don't like Woody Paige all that much, but I think he's been around long enough to have some decent insight into things like this.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11707580

Yes, Bowlen is taking control of Broncos
By Woody Paige
The Denver Post
Posted: 02/15/2009 12:30:00 AM MST

When Patrick Dennis Bowlen was introduced as the Broncos' new owner on March 23, 1984, he became a yes man.

No more.

Bowlen, a quarter-century into ownership and approaching 65, finally and emphatically said "no" to Mike Shanahan this past year, according to two Bowlen confidants who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Shanahan told Bowlen he wanted the owner to build a new practice facility. The Broncos' current headquarters in suburban Dove Valley was opened in 1990 and is named in honor of the owner's late father, Paul D. Bowlen. In 2004-05 the facility was renovated and expanded.

"Pat said no. Mike had gone too far. It was the only time Pat didn't say yes," one source said. The other said: "That was the beginning of the end of their professional relationship."

The end came because of a three-year record of 24-24, no division titles, no postseason participation, an atrocious defense, the decline of an NFL "crown jewel," the increasing unrest in the community concerning the coach, and the collapse at the close of the season (three consecutive defeats, concluded by the humiliation in San Diego). Add to that the frank realization by Bowlen that he was the titular head of the franchise, awareness that he wouldn't be condemned universally by media and fans, growing financial uncertainties and that request for a new building, and Bowlen decided to assume control, at last, of his foundering $1 billion empire.

The yes man said yes to himself.

Bowlen had said yes to virtually everything Dan Reeves (coach in 1984, also named vice president of the franchise in 1985) asked for until the owner fired him on Dec. 28, 1992.

For the next two years, the organization wandered aimlessly while Wade Phillips was the "interim" coach until Shana- han agreed to take over in 1995 as coach with, as the Broncos media guide emphasized the past season, "complete control of all aspects of football operations."

Bowlen said yes to Shanahan's football operations and most of the other aspects of the operations.

Yes to free agents who cost Bowlen hundreds of millions of dollars in immediate bonuses and long-term salaries. (Travis Henry, Dale Carter, Daryl Gardener, Michael Dean Perry, Niko Koutouvides among the pricey busts.)

Yes to one of the largest and most expensive assistant coaching staffs in the NFL (six different defensive coordinators since 2000).

Yes to almost 50 trades, several for highly paid players who underachieved (Dewayne Robertson, Javon Walker and Dre Bly, for example).

Yes to firings (Ted Sundquist, general manager in name), yes to exclusions (John Elway), yes to hirings (father and son combinations), yes to drafted players and yes to troubled players.

What developed wasn't really anybody's fault. When Bowlen bought the team, he didn't know football. Without interference, Reeves coached the Broncos to three Super Bowls. Shanahan, who had an offer to stay with the 49ers and be the next head coach, would return to Denver only if he had full authority, and he, without interference, coached the Broncos to two Super Bowl championships.

Without interference, the franchise also has declined twice.

It wasn't as if the coach-in-command was a fresh idea in Denver.

In December 1959, Dean Griffing was named the Broncos' first general manager. Mostly, he selected the original ghastly uniforms and colors, and retrieved footballs from the stands after extra points (to limit expenses). He was fired in 1962 when second coach Jack Faulkner assumed the GM's role too. Lou Saban was appointed coach-general manager in 1967, and after he quit, John Ralston was selected his successor for both jobs. Shortly after the 1976 season, Ralston was dumped as general manager, then soon after as coach.

Red Miller served solely as coach from 1977 (the Broncos' first Super Bowl season) until 1980, and Fred Gehrke was the general manager. After Edgar Kaiser purchased the team from the Phipps family in early 1981, he fired both men and named Reeves coach and ex-Vikings lineman Grady Alderman as GM. Alderman disappeared quickly, replaced by Kaiser with his attorney/gofer Hein Poulus, who didn't know the shape of a football. He told me in 1992 he would cut Randy Gradishar's contract in half and considered doubling ticket prices. Kaiser was clueless as an owner, but, like a blind squirrel, had the greatest trade in Denver sports history fall into his lap.

When Bowlen arrived, the Broncos maintained a strong-coach-weak-general- manager organization. GM John Beake aided VP Reeves.

Over the years, Bowlen concentrated on dealing with league issues and committees, funding the team, learning more about football, choosing new "predominantly orange" uniforms and championship rings, giving his input on personnel changes and drafts, enjoying the Broncos' success and loathing their failures.

Now Bowlen has a coach who will coach and a general manager who will manage. They will work together, supposedly, and work under the owner.

Bowlen will be a yes man and a no man. And there will be more pressure on the head man.

uplink
05-07-2009, 05:37 PM
Between them Shanny and Cutler realized they had the makings of a Super Bowl dynasty, but they thought why share this with Bowlen.

So they both concocted schemes to get themselves fired. 1) Shanny not firing Slowick on Bowlen's request and 2) Cutler not returning Bowlen's calls etc etc. It must have been clear that each act would mean dismissal by Bowlen.

The plan was for them to reunite in Chicago in 2010 (Shanny's and Cutler's boyhood team). In on the deal, DeAngleo was willing to out bid everyone for Cutler as necessary.

:thought:

uplink
05-07-2009, 05:55 PM
Another key element of the puzzle was Adam Schefter who got himself released
from the NFL network so he could reunite by infiltrating the Chicago media (reports to ESPN are a smoke screen). He is presently spending his time touring restaurants in downtown Chicago readying for his upcoming mail bag.

BroncoBuff
05-07-2009, 05:59 PM
Are you still here?

OBF1
05-07-2009, 06:05 PM
Erectile disfunction

cutthemdown
05-07-2009, 06:09 PM
Bowlen lost faith in Shanny to make the decisions for the team. Nepotism, switching d coord like underwear, I think all played a roll.

Shanny was no longer trusted to know what the defense should do.

broncosteven
05-07-2009, 06:20 PM
Bowlen lost faith in Shanny to make the decisions for the team. Nepotism, switching d coord like underwear, I think all played a roll.

Shanny was no longer trusted to know what the defense should do.

Isn't ther still Nepotism on the team? I thought someone had a son in an entry level role.

The # of hours these guys spend at work I don't care if they bring their sons along. Just as long as it doesn't affect the product.

Slowic was a big key I am guessing Bowlen thought Shanny forgot who was boss and wanted to feel like he was the owner again. After all what does an owner do? He doesn't gameplan or aquire talent, he just spends the dough. I guess Bowlen thought Shanny was walking around like he owned the place and wanted a change.

cutthemdown
05-07-2009, 06:32 PM
Isn't ther still Nepotism on the team? I thought someone had a son in an entry level role.

The # of hours these guys spend at work I don't care if they bring their sons along. Just as long as it doesn't affect the product.

Slowic was a big key I am guessing Bowlen thought Shanny forgot who was boss and wanted to feel like he was the owner again. After all what does an owner do? He doesn't gameplan or aquire talent, he just spends the dough. I guess Bowlen thought Shanny was walking around like he owned the place and wanted a change.

Nepotism will never go away. I think having a father son GM team a little more then some kid being a coaching assistant.

I think it was his inability, and the GMS inability, to ever find any good defensive players in draft that really killed it.

Name one good defensive player that Broncos drafted in last 5 yrs.

Darrent Williams? is that really it. I can't think of anymore.

Inkana7
05-07-2009, 06:39 PM
DJ. But that's about it.

cutthemdown
05-07-2009, 06:41 PM
DJ. But that's about it.

I think if Shanny came to bowlen and said I think I should concentrate on offense, I want someone else to pick the d coord and run the draft. I just want to coach. Then he would still be coach. Shanny had all the control and it wasn't working anymore. So many defensive mistakes in personal it's obvious Shanny and the Goodmans are one trick ponies. They know offense but not much about defense.

cutthemdown
05-07-2009, 06:45 PM
DJ. But that's about it.

And what do they do? Bring Gold in and make DJ rot at the strongside, then make him try and play MLB. Stupid stupid decision.

Many of us were like why bring Ian Gold back? another stupid move by Shannahan that set defense back.

They should have kept Reggie Hayward, letting him go was stupid because he was one of our only decent DE. Probably should have kept Berry as well.

Drafting non physical players, Lelie, Tatum Bell, etc also IMO led to team just not being tough enough.

Foxworth and Paymah didn't work out. They couldn't find defensive players to save there friggin lives.

If not for the Superbowl wins Shanny would have been gone long ago IMO.

broncosteven
05-07-2009, 06:46 PM
Nepotism will never go away. I think having a father son GM team a little more then some kid being a coaching assistant.

I think it was his inability, and the GMS inability, to ever find any good defensive players in draft that really killed it.

Name one good defensive player that Broncos drafted in last 5 yrs.

Darrent Williams? is that really it. I can't think of anymore.

Looks like McStalin is relying very heavily on Shanny's dline picks this year. He only drafted Ayers high, then got some UDFA. I think Slowic was the issue the D was so bad. He might have been a great DB coach not sure why he was promoted to DC, DL has always been an issue here.

If Nepotism will never go away then don't bring it up. I thought the goodmans were on Bowlen and Shanny only hired coaching staff and below. I didn't know Shanny hired the Goodmans, interesting.

BroncoBuff
05-07-2009, 06:57 PM
Elvis Dumervil.

He has been very good ... and might just blow up in this new system.

broncosteven
05-07-2009, 07:04 PM
Elvis Dumervil.

He has been very good ... and might just blow up in this new system.

Our Dline has no one other than Elvis with more than 2 years experience. We are going to war with a roster full of 2 year, 1 year and rooks (both drafted and UDFA). Not alot of experience but not alot of talent available. This is looking like a trend not a lack of success for Shanny.

cutthemdown
05-07-2009, 07:24 PM
He wouldn't get more then a 6th IMO. He was a low pick and hasn't played much, got injured. It's better to see what he can do then trade him IMO. But I also would not be surprised to see anything happen.

PaintballCLE
05-07-2009, 07:31 PM
Another key element of the puzzle was Tony Scheffler who got himself released
from the NFL network so he could reunite by infiltrating the Chicago media (reports to ESPN are a smoke screen). He is presently spending his time touring restaurants in downtown Chicago readying for his upcoming mail bag.

I really hope you were stoned out of your mind, and really didn't think tony scheffler was adam schefter.......

uplink
05-07-2009, 07:35 PM
I really hope you were stoned out of your mind, and really didn't think tony scheffler was adam schefter.......

Thanks fixed it.

halfcreek
05-07-2009, 09:27 PM
why you think shanahan really got fired? him and bowlen havent spoken since then, and the move came so unexpectedly, there HAD to be something personal that happened.

bowlen talked about taking back the team, being the one in charge etc etc. but it never truly came out why he was fired. i honestly dont believe lack of success was the problem because the team was kinda going in a positive direction (besides slowick..), i think he had another year safety net as far as perforamnce reasons to NOT be fired given the development of a lot of player. any thoughts?

Last three games a "positive direction?"

cutthemdown
05-07-2009, 09:38 PM
Looks like McStalin is relying very heavily on Shanny's dline picks this year. He only drafted Ayers high, then got some UDFA. I think Slowic was the issue the D was so bad. He might have been a great DB coach not sure why he was promoted to DC, DL has always been an issue here.

If Nepotism will never go away then don't bring it up. I thought the goodmans were on Bowlen and Shanny only hired coaching staff and below. I didn't know Shanny hired the Goodmans, interesting.

Well since only 4 dlineman he upgraded 25%. Brought in Fields to probably start at DT, so that's 50% different. Ekuban and Engleberger gone, webster gone, Winborn gone, McCree gone, Manual gone. IMO Shanny should be ashamed that not one of those scrubs even is on another team yet. Hell some of them probably will never play in NFL again.

So really we could have 1 new starting LB, 2 new Dlineman, 2 new safety's. 2 new corners, just how much can you do in one offseason.

Not only that but got better at RB and deeper at WR by signing Gaffney.

I agree with people that the defense won't be really good but I think it looks loads better on paper this yr. We will have to wait and see it play.

We have some bodies that are bigger and IMO that will help out.

I'm pretty confident this defense will be at least 75-100 yrds better a game then last yrs.

That is unless the offenses we play are that much better also.

In any event I think they play more physical this yr.

bpc
05-07-2009, 10:55 PM
Something bad happened between the two but only Bowlen knows the extent of it. Shanahan showed as much class as one could expect from a coach being cut loose and claimed Bowlen was one of his best friends but Pat hasn't spoken to him since the firing, which culminated with a 2 minute meeting to end a 14 year reign in Denver. There is bad blood there on one end. Somebody pointed out that Bowlen was pissed when Shanahan thought the Broncos needed a new practice facility.

baja
05-07-2009, 11:26 PM
why you think shanahan really got fired? him and bowlen havent spoken since then, and the move came so unexpectedly, there HAD to be something personal that happened.

bowlen talked about taking back the team, being the one in charge etc etc. but it never truly came out why he was fired. i honestly dont believe lack of success was the problem because the team was kinda going in a positive direction (besides slowick..), i think he had another year safety net as far as perforamnce reasons to NOT be fired given the development of a lot of player. any thoughts?

Did you catch the last three games???