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View Full Version : OT: Manny Ramirez suspended for steroids--50 games


Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 10:02 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907


just Manny being Manny...

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 10:07 AM
Ha!

I'm simply shocked............or not.

Karma's a b*tch.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:07 AM
It looks like it's not steroids or hgh. Some medicine prescribed to him for "personal use". Here's betting it's some anti-anxiety drug with stimulant features.

vancejohnson82
05-07-2009, 10:08 AM
sucks....as a Boston fan

now it puts a little bit of suspicion over the championships...doesnt help that Big Papi looks like someone put a spell on him

Punisher
05-07-2009, 10:08 AM
Now we have to hear about this for like 8 weeks.

Thanks a lot Manny

tsiguy96
05-07-2009, 10:12 AM
Now we have to hear about this for like 8 weeks.

Thanks a lot Manny

better than favre stuff. atleast for now.

24champ
05-07-2009, 10:16 AM
Gammons was on ESPN saying that it allegedly isn't a PED that Manny tested positive for. Rather it is a drug that is on the banned list.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 10:17 AM
Gammons was on ESPN saying that it allegedly isn't a PED that Manny tested positive for. Rather it is a drug that is on the banned list.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Must suck when the masking agent you use for steroids doesn't mask everything else.

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 10:19 AM
Gammons was on ESPN saying that it allegedly isn't a PED that Manny tested positive for. Rather it is a drug that is on the banned list.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

i'm almost certain the ESPN front page said steroids...

looks like they've changed it...

either way...50 games is 50 games...

24champ
05-07-2009, 10:19 AM
Scott Boras, Ramirez's agent, told ESPN's Peter Gammons that his client did not test positive for steroids, but for a drug that was prescribed by a doctor for a medical condition.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:20 AM
It's not steroids. All over ESPN now. He was prescribed something.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-07-2009, 10:22 AM
Ugh, these stories are so annoying. I know some people care, but i really do not. I'm firmly convinced pretty much everyone in football uses them and i couldnt give half a ****. Its their choice, whatever.

TheChamp24
05-07-2009, 10:23 AM
Still, this tarnishes his reputation big time. You don't get suspended 50 games for just some plain old prescription.

Jason in LA
05-07-2009, 10:24 AM
At this point I'd say every big time home run hitter over recent years was on it. Like it was mentioned earlier in this thread, it could be a masking agent that didn't work, so they fall back on the doctor's note excuse.

And lets not let pitchers off the hook. They were juiced too.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:24 AM
Still, this tarnishes his reputation big time. You don't get suspended 50 games for just some plain old prescription. Sure you do if it's on the banned list. If he went to the Dr. for anxiety and they prescribe something with a stimulant in it; that's illegal--he should have known better and that's why he gets suspended. JC Romero got suspended for buying something at GMC, so legality isn't the point.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-07-2009, 10:26 AM
I hope its weed!

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 10:26 AM
JC Romero got suspended for buying something at GMC, so legality isn't the point.

He got suspended for buying a truck?

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:27 AM
He got suspended for buying a truck?
GNC, or whatever that that vitamin store in teh mall is.

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 10:28 AM
GNC, or whatever that that vitamin store in teh mall is.

Just bustin em.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:28 AM
Evidently, Manny waived his right to appeal. Make of it what you will.

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 10:30 AM
Evidently, Manny waived his right to appeal. Make of it what you will.

When you know you won't win the appeal, it's best to just get the suspension over with as early in the season as possible.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:30 AM
Just bustin em.I figured, but then I started to question if I was remotely close to what the place was called. :thumbsup:

24champ
05-07-2009, 10:30 AM
Gammons talked to the Red Sox FO and they don't believe Manny cheated.

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 10:31 AM
It's not steroids. All over ESPN now. He was prescribed something.

according to his agent...

i don't buy it...

Los Broncos
05-07-2009, 10:36 AM
Wow, are you kidding me?

SouthStndJunkie
05-07-2009, 10:39 AM
Sucks for baseball and its fans....who is the next big name to go down....Albert Pujols?

I never figured Manny would get busted.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:40 AM
according to his agent...

i don't buy it...If we learn what the substance was and why it was prescribed combined with the fact that he didn't appeal would make me wonder if Manny is being truthful here.

Manny's always been a big guy (sure he's added weight), but he never hit 50 bombs, and has produced nearly the same throughout his career (unlike Bonds who got much better post-35).

The easy thing here is to jump to he-did-steroids thinking; I'll withhold judgment until we know more.

SouthStndJunkie
05-07-2009, 10:44 AM
Gammons talked to the Red Sox FO and they don't believe Manny cheated.

Of course not, they don't want their titles tainted.

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 10:48 AM
If we learn what the substance was and why it was prescribed combined with the fact that he didn't appeal would make me wonder if Manny is being truthful here.

Manny's always been a big guy (sure he's added weight), but he never hit 50 bombs, and has produced nearly the same throughout his career (unlike Bonds who got much better post-35).

The easy thing here is to jump to he-did-steroids thinking; I'll withhold judgment until we know more.

well you have your outlook and i have mine...

i don't buy it...period....

the guy is blaming his Dr?...please

it's Manny's responsibility to make sure not to take banned substances...if his doc gave him something, he should've taken that straight to the union...

the Doctor said it was ok...i thought it was just lotion, i misremembered, i didn't know what i was being given, etc...we've heard every excuse in the book...

Manny is full of it, just llike the rest...

ColoradoBuff
05-07-2009, 10:50 AM
Viagra???

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:51 AM
Have you read his statement?

"Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me," Ramirez said. "Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now.
"I do want to say one other thing; I've taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons. I want to apologize to [Dodgers owner Frank] McCourt, Mrs. McCourt, [manager Joe] Torre, my teammates, the Dodger organization, and to the Dodger fans. LA is a special place to me and I know everybody is disappointed. So am I. I'm sorry about this whole situation."
And he didn't appeal. Your view sounds pretty emotional and preemptive to me, and thus for the birds.

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 10:53 AM
Manny is about to lose 1/3 of his ridiculous salary. If it truly was his doctor's fault, you can be sure as sh*t that there would be a lawsuit coming to recoup lost wages.

There will be no such lawsuit. You can bank on it.

That tells me all I need to know.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 10:54 AM
Manny is about to lose 1/3 of his ridiculous salary. If it truly was his doctor's fault, you can be sure as sh*t that there would be a lawsuit coming to recoup lost wages.

There will be no such lawsuit. You can bank on it.

That tells me all I need to know.It's not the doctor's responsibility to know what is banned and what isn't. It's Manny's. There will be no law suit.

(And given that Manny didn't even appeal the suspension; I can't imagine he'd go after the doctor, can you?)

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 10:58 AM
Have you read his statement?
And he didn't appeal. Your view sounds pretty emotional and preemptive to me, and thus for the birds.

no i'm a realist, and i hate when people blame others...

it's his fault...i don't need to hear this "my doctor thought it was ok excuse"...

his only comment should be "i made a grave mistake not ensuring the substance i took wasn't on the banned list"...instead he blames his doctor...


i'm not emotional...i'm not a dodger fan or anti-dodger fan...but i don't buy excuses...if you want to, go ahead...but i don't do excuses...and i don't buy into people pretending to play ignorant...

it all smells fishy, thus i don't buy it...

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 10:59 AM
It's not the doctor's responsibility to know what is banned and what isn't. It's Manny's. There will be no law suit.


If the doctor advised him that it would be ok and actually put it in writing, as Manny alludes to, then it is a VERY suitable case.

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 11:00 AM
If the doctor advised him that it would be ok and actually put it in writing, as Manny alludes to, then it is a VERY suitable case.

no it isn't...

it's not the doctor's responsibility, it's Mannys...

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 11:01 AM
no it isn't...

it's not the doctor's responsibility, it's Mannys...

I'm not guessing here.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 11:01 AM
If the doctor advised him that it would be ok and actually put it in writing, as Manny alludes to, then it is a VERY suitable case.No it's not. How much ever you want to believe it. The MLB rules are very clear. Manny even refers to such when he says, "Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility."

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 11:03 AM
I'm not guessing here.

not sure what that means...

but the doctor isn't responsible...the doctor didn't dictate what goes on the list or not...so he isn't an official on what's ok and not ok...

this is all on Manny, not his doctor...

BroncoBuff
05-07-2009, 11:04 AM
The standard line, "my doctor gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me." It strikes me that everybody they nail for steroids ... made a whole lotta money doing them.

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 11:07 AM
No it's not. How much ever you want to believe it. The MLB rules are very clear. Manny even refers to such with the bold quote a few post above.

We're talking past each other here.

I KNOW it's Manny's responsibility to know what he's putting in his body. I also KNOW how the courts work.

If they get something in writing from the doctor saying prescription x would pass MLB's testing when it clearly didn't, it would be enough to bring a case.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 11:10 AM
The standard line, "my doctor gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me." It strikes me that everybody they nail for steroids ... made a whole lotta money doing them.Who else has said this? I know it seems like it could be a common excuse, but I pay pretty close attention to the issue (big baseball fan). Paul Byrd claimed a Dr. prescribed him HGH, but HGH is obviously banned and has been for sometime.


(I'm guessing the drug had testosterone in it, from what Gammons just said on ESPN, and I'm betting Manny might have some trouble down stairs. If that's the case we'll never know what was taken.)

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 11:11 AM
We're talking past each other here.

I KNOW it's Manny's responsibility to know what he's putting in his body. I also KNOW how the courts work.

If they get something in writing from the doctor saying prescription x would pass MLB's testing when it clearly didn't, it would be enough to bring a case.It comes down to how MLB policy regards the issue. The courts will look at the CBA and come out with the obvious conclusion that Manny has no case against the doctor.

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 11:11 AM
We're talking past each other here.

I KNOW it's Manny's responsibility to know what he's putting in his body. I also KNOW how the courts work.

If they get something in writing from the doctor saying prescription x would pass MLB's testing when it clearly didn't, it would be enough to bring a case.

a case that he would lose...

his doctor isn't qualified to make that claim, the union is...

that's no better than you or I writing out such a statement...

BroncoBuff
05-07-2009, 11:12 AM
I'm betting Manny might have some trouble down stairs. If that's the case we'll never know what was taken.)

LOL

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 11:19 AM
a case that he would lose...

his doctor isn't qualified to make that claim, the union is...

that's no better than you or I writing out such a statement...

How is a doctor not qualified to look at a list of 50 ingredients and tell if what he's about to give a guy has any of them in it? A doctor of all people should know what they are prescribing and what they are telling people to put in their bodies.

Again, I don't want anyone to get the impression that I believe Manny isn't responsible here. I just want to make it clear that if a doctor says something like this on the record (which I don't believe happened here), there would be some repurcussion. Especially with Manny. He has proven that he is not going to sit by and let someone take his money without a fight.

Smelvin
05-07-2009, 11:21 AM
Manny was taking medication to help treat a medical condition which is common in players signed to 1 and 2 year deals.

The name of the condition is Iwanttogetpaiditis

DomCasual
05-07-2009, 11:29 AM
The Dodgers are a bunch of thugs. That 13-0 home start should read like this:

13-0*

:D

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 11:46 AM
How is a doctor not qualified to look at a list of 50 ingredients and tell if what he's about to give a guy has any of them in it? A doctor of all people should know what they are prescribing and what they are telling people to put in their bodies.

Again, I don't want anyone to get the impression that I believe Manny isn't responsible here. I just want to make it clear that if a doctor says something like this on the record (which I don't believe happened here), there would be some repurcussion. Especially with Manny. He has proven that he is not going to sit by and let someone take his money without a fight.You're making a moral argument not a legal one.

24champ
05-07-2009, 11:50 AM
The Dodgers are a bunch of thugs. That 13-0 home start should read like this:

13-0*

:D

Ha!

If that's the case...then...


ROCKIES 2007 NL CHAMPIONS *

DomCasual
05-07-2009, 11:55 AM
Ha!

If that's the case...then...


ROCKIES 2007 NL CHAMPIONS *

Dude, you're just bitter. The Dodgers are about to go on a 6-44 run.

24champ
05-07-2009, 12:02 PM
Dude, you're just bitter. The Dodgers are about to go on a 6-44 run.

Doubtful.

Torre will make some adjustments, and keep the ship righted. We still have Matt Kemp, Casey Blake and the best infield defense in the NL. I'm not worried about our playoff chances.


Meanwhile the Rockies are wandering off the NL West reservation this year.:welcome:

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 12:05 PM
You're making a moral argument not a legal one.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

A moral argument would be one in favor of telling the doctor that he should voluntarily inform his patient of every ingredient in the script.

A legal argument would be one in favor of advising Manny what he should do AFTER the doctor voluntarily did something he shouldn't have done. In short, a doctor should never, ever do what this one supposedly did. By doing so, one opens themself up to a whole set of legal complications.

Try this example on:

Paralegals are not allowed to give legal advice.

A client calls a paralegal directly and asks a legal question. They get an answer from the paralegal without checking with the attorney and they run with it. It turns out badly for the client. Even though the client has ultimate responsibility for the decision and the paralegal doesn't have the grounds to say what they said, the firm can still be (and most definitely will be) sued by the client. And the client will most likely win.

24champ
05-07-2009, 12:05 PM
LOS ANGELES – A source close to Manny Ramirez(notes) said Thursday that the illegal substance for which the Los Angeles Dodgers slugger tested positive was not “an agent customarily used for performance enhancing.”

At least not on the baseball diamond. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the substance is supposed to boost sex drive. It is not Viagra, but a substance that treats the cause rather providing a temporary boost in sexual performance, the source said.

Ramirez tested positive for the substance during spring training, then was administered a second test more recently, and it also was positive. Major League Baseball notified Ramirez of the second positive test after Wednesday night’s Dodgers victory over the Washington Nationals. Ramirez admitted to having taken the substance and declined to appeal. His 50-game suspension begins today.

“The substance is not a steroid and it is not human-growth hormone,” the source said.

Ramirez, the source said, acquired the substance through a prescription from a doctor in Miami for his medical condition. The source intimated that Ramirez might bring legal action against the physician.

Ramirez released the following statement Thursday morning: “Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was okay to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.

The Dodgers, who have won a Major League record 13 consecutive home games to start the season, will be without Ramirez until July 3. Outfielder Xavier Paul was promoted from triple-A to take Ramirez’s place on the roster. The suspension will cost Ramirez close to $8 million in lost wages.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ai5MrKVJ.WCDqDjpjf3yj7kd0bYF?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

DomCasual
05-07-2009, 12:06 PM
Doubtful.

Torre will make some adjustments, and keep the ship righted. We still have Matt Kemp, Casey Blake and the best infield defense in the NL. I'm not worried about our playoff chances.


Meanwhile the Rockies are wandering off the NL West reservation this year.:welcome:

After you're 6-44 run, the Rockies (who will go, say, 35-15 over that time) will be up by 11 games.

I can feel it. We've been toying with the division up until now. This is when it all starts!

Natedog24
05-07-2009, 12:13 PM
Dude, you're just bitter. The Dodgers are about to go on a 6-44 run.

Dodgers play .500 ball over this stretch and will still be light years ahead of the Rockies. Remember the Dodgers without Manny, Raffy and Casey Blake were around a .500 team last year. Now we lose Manny but we still have Blake/Raffy plus one of the hottest hitters in baseball in Orlando Hudson who was also not on last years team. This is still a good lineup without Manny, just not a great one anymore.

Natedog24
05-07-2009, 12:17 PM
After you're 6-44 run, the Rockies (who will go, say, 35-15 over that time) will be up by 11 games.

I can feel it. We've been toying with the division up until now. This is when it all starts!

Not with the Xman Xavier Paul coming up from AAA. He is so good we left him in AAA just so we wouldn't embarrass NL pitching too much. Manny who 8')

Gcver2ver3
05-07-2009, 12:18 PM
Not with the Xman Xavier Paul coming up from AAA. He is so good we left him in AAA just so we wouldn't embarrass NL pitching too much. Manny who 8')

Ramirez...

OBF1
05-07-2009, 12:24 PM
Change the title of the thread... It was not roids.

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 12:25 PM
Change the title of the thread... It was not roids.

Because Manny and Boras say so? As far as I can tell, they are the only sources that have been quoted so far.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 12:26 PM
Because Manny and Boras say so? As far as I can tell, they are the only sources that have been quoted so far. No, because there's no confirmation what it was that he took; we shouldn't jump to conclusions no matter how logical they might seem to some.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 12:30 PM
I totally called it:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer

Mile High Mojoe
05-07-2009, 12:31 PM
I never cared much for Manny so this great. This story illustrates just how high of an opinion he had for himself and how low of an opinion he had for the game of baseball and the Dodgers fans. Enjoy the suspension Manny thanks you for helping improve the Rockies chances of winning the division. Moron! One day Favre then Manny what do these kinds of self-indulging messages say to our kids?

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 12:32 PM
No, because there's no confirmation what it was that he took; we shouldn't jump to conclusions no matter how logical they might seem to some.

I would accept changing it for that reasoning. What I objected to was the post above that said it should be changed because "it was not roids."

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 12:35 PM
I totally called it:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

boston.com has this latest gem:

However, two sources told ESPN's T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is HCG -- human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a women's fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO."

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 12:37 PM
boston.com has this latest gem:

However, two sources told ESPN's T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is HCG -- human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a women's fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO." If that's true, that does change things. But it doesn't make sense that a Doctor would prescribe it to Manny, if so, the Doctor is in trouble too. I think people might be jumping the gun a little bit.

DomCasual
05-07-2009, 12:38 PM
boston.com has this latest gem:

However, two sources told ESPN's T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is HCG -- human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a women's fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO."

Man, Clomid gave my wife crazy ovarian cysts. I wonder if any of those guys had that?

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 12:43 PM
ESPN is reporting it is HCG.

Beantown Bronco
05-07-2009, 12:46 PM
If that's true, that does change things. But it doesn't make sense that a Doctor would prescribe it to Manny, if so, the Doctor is in trouble too. I think people might be jumping the gun a little bit.

Apparently HCG can be had without a prescription, so there may never even have been a doctor involved.

Pseudofool
05-07-2009, 12:50 PM
Apparently HCG can be had without a prescription, so there may never even have been a doctor involved.
Something is fishy, for sure.

DomCasual
05-07-2009, 01:19 PM
Apparently HCG can be had without a prescription, so there may never even have been a doctor involved.

HCG is the latest diet fad here. You get injections for it, and it supposedly jump starts your metabolism.

My favorite part is this. While you are taking it, you are on an eating regimen that limits you to 500 calories per day.

But it's the HCG that makes you lose the weight. Honest.

ohiobronco2
05-07-2009, 01:31 PM
Doubtful.

Torre will make some adjustments, and keep the ship righted. We still have Matt Kemp, Casey Blake and the best infield defense in the NL. I'm not worried about our playoff chances.


Meanwhile the Rockies are wandering off the NL West reservation this year.:welcome:

AWWW. Poor Alfie, it's just not your day. First your Lakers fight like little girls and your other LA man crush gets busted for cheating. OH NOES.

azbroncfan
05-07-2009, 01:48 PM
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. At least he was able to use the classic default excuse and blame it on a doctor.

24champ
05-07-2009, 01:48 PM
Kind of weird that Ohio follows me around like a lost puppy...creepy actually.

TheChamp24
05-07-2009, 03:39 PM
Dodgers play .500 ball over this stretch and will still be light years ahead of the Rockies. Remember the Dodgers without Manny, Raffy and Casey Blake were around a .500 team last year. Now we lose Manny but we still have Blake/Raffy plus one of the hottest hitters in baseball in Orlando Hudson who was also not on last years team. This is still a good lineup without Manny, just not a great one anymore.

Yeah, you really think Orlando's going to keep hitting .340+? I remember last year the DBacks were off to an insane start with their offense killing it and their pitching throwing darts.
What happened? They woke up and played like their normal selves.
Heck, Kemp's already going back to his normal self after hovering around .400.
And Blake? The same guy who's hitting .225?
Your Dodgers hot start is going to give them a heads up in the division, I still see them winning it based on this start, but they'll probably be around the 88 win mark come October.

Natedog24
05-07-2009, 04:31 PM
Yeah, you really think Orlando's going to keep hitting .340+? I remember last year the DBacks were off to an insane start with their offense killing it and their pitching throwing darts.
What happened? They woke up and played like their normal selves.
Heck, Kemp's already going back to his normal self after hovering around .400.
And Blake? The same guy who's hitting .225?
Your Dodgers hot start is going to give them a heads up in the division, I still see them winning it based on this start, but they'll probably be around the 88 win mark come October.

Don't care about the record, only were we finish in the NL West. Don't need ODog to hit .340, only need him to remain a massive upgrade over last years version of Jeff Kent (which shouldn't be too hard) and to avoid any kind of major injury.

My major original point was that the Dodgers hovered around .500 baseball before they added Manny and after Furcal went down with his back injury. They play .500 baseball over this 50 game stretch without Manny they are probably still in a very good position to win NL West and that is your goal in the regular season, to win your division.