PDA

View Full Version : i think the biggest problem with mcdaniels rookie drafting experience...


tsiguy96
04-30-2009, 10:46 AM
he was too inflexible, at the end of the day. look at the 4th round safety (burton i think), there was a DT immediately after. i think when it came down to it, he followed the BPA philosophy too far instead of drafting at positions of true need, he always took the higher rated player when we didnt need them. i think if he had a safety rated slightly higher than a DT (like sammy lee hill), he took the safety even though we didnt need another one and we really needed DT.

i think he also got a bit too antsy and traded up too many times when players likely would have fell atleast a bit further, however i think thats also because his draft lists were dwindling far faster than anticipated and he didnt want to risk having to pick an unknown, hed rather get FEWER players, but players that he has spoken to and knew would contribute to the team.

overall for a first draft i think he did really good.

cutthemdown
04-30-2009, 10:48 AM
The Burton pick IMO had a lot to do with special teams. IMO he really wanted to add 2-3 players that could help there.

Rabb
04-30-2009, 10:52 AM
The Burton pick IMO had a lot to do with special teams. IMO he really wanted to add 2-3 players that could help there.

I think you are right on the money

BroncoBuff
04-30-2009, 10:53 AM
The Burton pick IMO had a lot to do with special teams. IMO he really wanted to add 2-3 players that could help there.

That makes sense on Day Two I guess ...

Was Bruton the only ND player drafted ... anybody?

cutthemdown
04-30-2009, 11:00 AM
That makes sense on Day 2 I suppose.

I'm not saying they don't think he can be a starter someday, only that I think his special teams prowess played into Broncos taking Bruton at that spot instead of maybe a big DT that you know won't help on kick coverage.

From what Notre Dame fans say this Bruton kid is pretty crazy on special teams. I guess he likes to come flying in full speed trying to kill people. Broncos could use some of that.

Also I have this feeling Broncos special teams will be manned with a crazier mentality then the past. These guys will be flying around trying to make a roster spot.

Tombstone RJ
04-30-2009, 11:05 AM
Special Teams has been a thorn in the side of the Broncos for a long time (aside from Elam, but even he was just a field goal kicker). STs plays a huge role in field position for both offense and defense.

Slade
04-30-2009, 11:06 AM
McD seems to want backups that are aces on special teams...whereas Shany tried to turn backups into special teamers.

See the Arrington, Griesen, and Burton pickups. All of those guys are known for their special team ability.

IMO, I think it is a welcome change. I mean a 4th string safety will never see the field, so if he is a special team stud then I am thrilled. It is a great philosophy.

BroncoBuff
04-30-2009, 11:12 AM
McD seems to want backups that are aces on special teams...whereas Shany tried to turn backups into special teamers.
This board doesn't care for special teamers either ... in the threead "Which LBs Would You Cut?", Louis Green had as many votes as Boss Bailey.

Louis Green, and Mike Leach for that matter, have been excellent special teamers for us ...

Tombstone RJ
04-30-2009, 11:16 AM
This board doesn't care for special teamers either ... in the threead "Which LBs Would You Cut?", Louis Green had as many votes as Boss Bailey.

Louis Green, and Mike Leach for that matter, have been excellent special teamers for us ...

I'm thinking that if WW doesn't start at LB, then he's gonna be a great STs guy. Hence, I voted Green off the island...

I'm about to vote you off the island too, you lousy, no good liberal.

HorseHead
04-30-2009, 11:16 AM
Yes, Bruton was the only Golden Domer selected in this year's draft...

Me thinks Weiss gave McLovin' the suggestion...

Slade
04-30-2009, 11:21 AM
IMO we are going to have a great special teams unit for a change. I can't wait! It will be so nice to start out with good field position and to make the opponents start out with bad field position. That element has been missing from the Broncos for a long time.

PRBronco
04-30-2009, 11:25 AM
he was too inflexible, at the end of the day. look at the 4th round safety (burton i think), there was a DT immediately after. i think when it came down to it, he followed the BPA philosophy too far instead of drafting at positions of true need, he always took the higher rated player when we didnt need them. i think if he had a safety rated slightly higher than a DT (like sammy lee hill), he took the safety even though we didnt need another one and we really needed DT.

i think he also got a bit too antsy and traded up too many times when players likely would have fell atleast a bit further, however i think thats also because his draft lists were dwindling far faster than anticipated and he didnt want to risk having to pick an unknown, hed rather get FEWER players, but players that he has spoken to and knew would contribute to the team.

overall for a first draft i think he did really good.


Don't you think that if they actually wanted that DT they would have taken him? Contrary to popular belief, these people aren't retarded. If after the next few seasons that DT emerges as a force, well then hooray, our front office fails. For now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they have some kind of idea of how to do their job.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-30-2009, 11:32 AM
I think he sees a team with virtually no depth across the board (whose fault is that?), and he's doing what he can to fill it. Obviously the fanbase has seen a terrible Front 7 for years (same question as above) and wants it addressed whereas McD is just coming on the scene. If in '10 or '11, he's still doing the same thing, then there's definitely a reason to complain. Right now there's a blank slate, he doesn't deserve any faith in his picks nor he deserve any derision either because he has no track record. If Shanahan had pulled out this draft, the majority of the board would be scared to death of all 4 picks on defense because they can from positions that Shanahan had an established track record of an inability to find guys through the draft at those positions.

Dagmar
04-30-2009, 11:32 AM
Did you watch his press conference on Sunday night? Whenever he talked about STs he got deadly serious. He realises their importance.

Drek
04-30-2009, 11:39 AM
He's rebuilding the defense from scratch basically and this was a weak draft for DL. I'd say he did the smart thing in taking significantly more talented DBs over DLs who might not even stick in the league through their first season.

vancejohnson82
04-30-2009, 11:46 AM
He's rebuilding the defense from scratch basically and this was a weak draft for DL. I'd say he did the smart thing in taking significantly more talented DBs over DLs who might not even stick in the league through their first season.

Thats what I think too...

I don't think he was too impressed with what we could have gotten at our spot.

The Patriots draft the same way....they draft best value on the board no matter what position....

(uh oh, i think thats going to make me a Patriots fan)

meangene
04-30-2009, 11:56 AM
Actually I give McDaniels a great deal of credit for sticking to his board and not going for a "quick fix" at need positions. It would have been easy to appease the masses and the draft gurus but, even as a rookie head coach in his first draft, he did not lose sight of the big picture. He has a plan and he has the balls to stick to it. Part of that plan is long-term success by drafting the BPA. If he doesn't demonstrate commitment to his plan and faith in his staff, how can he expect the players to follow? I like his confidence and I like his toughness.

Rabb
04-30-2009, 12:40 PM
Special Teams was only behind the horrific front 7 and secondary in terms of things that screwed us last year

I welcome that changing

barryr
04-30-2009, 12:54 PM
Many believe that it will take some time to build the defense, so then why do people get upset they didn't take some project DL, at least in their eyes, and went with guys they thought would be the better players and help the team more?

I think McDaniels would have shown more inflexibility if he has just decided he was going with a DL no matter who it was and where it was, and not worrying about a player higher rated available on their draft board.

When you do things like that, not only do you likely not improve your weakness, but a weakness that develops in a year or two wasn't addressed either since you missed out on some better talent and now your holes are becoming numerous and that's how you keep losing.

Don't forget, this is the NFL. Guys go down with an injury at a moment's notice. You need to draft well regardless of position for when a guy does go down, you need someone who can play at that spot.

c_lazy_r
04-30-2009, 12:55 PM
Don't you think that if they actually wanted that DT they would have taken him? Contrary to popular belief, these people aren't retarded. If after the next few seasons that DT emerges as a force, well then hooray, our front office fails. For now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they have some kind of idea of how to do their job.

Dead on the money!

BroncoBuff
04-30-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm about to vote you off the island too, you lousy, no good liberal.

I might be a lousy liberal ... but I sure as hell don't live on no island! ;D

footstepsfrom#27
04-30-2009, 01:48 PM
Yes, Bruton was the only Golden Domer selected in this year's draft...

Me thinks Weiss gave McLovin' the suggestion...
Bingo.

Drek
04-30-2009, 03:15 PM
Yes, Bruton was the only Golden Domer selected in this year's draft...

Me thinks Weiss gave McLovin' the suggestion...

Or him being one of the best ST gunners in all of college football last year. Take your pick.

Garcia Bronco
04-30-2009, 03:17 PM
I love how people think they know more about our needs than a a multiple Super Bowl Winning experienced paid professional

cmhargrove
04-30-2009, 03:39 PM
You know who I really, really want to watch on Special Teams?

Our seventh round draft pick Blake Schlueter. I know the dude is a Center, but he must be a hell of an athlete. The dude weighs 290 and runs a 4.7 40 yard dash.

That is some serious power at 290 lbs. He gonna blow somebody up.

PRBronco
04-30-2009, 04:19 PM
You know who I really, really want to watch on Special Teams?

Our seventh round draft pick Blake Schlueter. I know the dude is a Center, but he must be a hell of an athlete. The dude weighs 290 and runs a 4.7 40 yard dash.

That is some serious power at 290 lbs. He gonna blow somebody up.

Haha isn't Darrell Reid already youtube famous for that? Now we have 2 :D

Odysseus
04-30-2009, 04:43 PM
This board doesn't care for special teamers either ... in the threead "Which LBs Would You Cut?", Louis Green had as many votes as Boss Bailey.

Louis Green, and Mike Leach for that matter, have been excellent special teamers for us ...

If we have a decent offense, a middle of the road defense and a special teams that does not completely suck oddly enough in the AFC Weak this team could make the playoffs.

BroncoBuff
04-30-2009, 04:46 PM
Or him being one of the best ST gunners in all of college football last year. Take your pick.

Third choice: Ty Willingham can't recruit.

Trust me, the Washington Huskies are HORRIBLE ......

baja
04-30-2009, 05:42 PM
Don't you think that if they actually wanted that DT they would have taken him? Contrary to popular belief, these people aren't retarded. If after the next few seasons that DT emerges as a force, well then hooray, our front office fails. For now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they have some kind of idea of how to do their job.

Why more people don't take this attitude I don't know.

Rohirrim
04-30-2009, 06:18 PM
Why more people don't take this attitude I don't know.

What would be the fun in that? ;D

baja
04-30-2009, 06:51 PM
What would be the fun in that? ;D

You do have a point.

broncosteven
04-30-2009, 07:23 PM
he was too inflexible, at the end of the day. look at the 4th round safety (burton i think), there was a DT immediately after. i think when it came down to it, he followed the BPA philosophy too far instead of drafting at positions of true need, he always took the higher rated player when we didnt need them. i think if he had a safety rated slightly higher than a DT (like sammy lee hill), he took the safety even though we didnt need another one and we really needed DT.

i think he also got a bit too antsy and traded up too many times when players likely would have fell atleast a bit further, however i think thats also because his draft lists were dwindling far faster than anticipated and he didnt want to risk having to pick an unknown, hed rather get FEWER players, but players that he has spoken to and knew would contribute to the team.

overall for a first draft i think he did really good.

Did someone hijack your account? You DARE question McD? I thought the dude and the Patriot way was above objective reasoning?

I would rep you if I didn't think you were somehow just posting this thread as bait to trap shanny and cutler lovers.

broncosteven
04-30-2009, 07:32 PM
If we have a decent offense, a middle of the road defense and a special teams that does not completely suck oddly enough in the AFC Weak this team could make the playoffs.

How are you doing QT?
Back to post:

This is what I thought the last 3 years.

We are in full rebuilding mode.

On O:
New QB, Rookie RB, New O System

On D:
Moving to 3-4/changing system
No real Dline upgrade, unless you think Thomas playing a new pos and Ayers will contrib right away is an upgrade.
LB's being converted from DL projected to start, I liked the Davis pickup not sure DJ will fit a 3-4 scheme
CB's more rookies expected to fill Nickle role.
Dawkins only real quality move on D but he is = to getting Lynch.


On ST:
Bad FG
No return specialists
New ST coach
Punter avg at best.

Add in the # of bodies and youth brought in, the youth movement didn't help KFC win those 2 games last year, I think it helped them lose those 14 games though.

Hoping for the best but being realistic. This is the 1st year since 1995 where I don't think we will make the playoffs.

tsiguy96
04-30-2009, 07:36 PM
Did someone hijack your account? You DARE question McD? I thought the dude and the Patriot way was above objective reasoning?

I would rep you if I didn't think you were somehow just posting this thread as bait to trap shanny and cutler lovers.

no one can say this draft was flawless, i think mcdaniels did get a little trigger happy with all the trades and i think we wont see this many next year, but then again he could have just really wanted those guys...

no one said hes perfect, what ive been saying is he has done nothing to deserve the criticism that he is getting so far, considering he is trying (and making efforts to) put an entire team on the field. that DJ williams quote where he said the D felt like second class players has stuck with me, and i gaurantee its not like that with mcdaniels.

broncosteven
04-30-2009, 07:41 PM
no one can say this draft was flawless, i think mcdaniels did get a little trigger happy with all the trades and i think we wont see this many next year, but then again he could have just really wanted those guys...

no one said hes perfect, what ive been saying is he has done nothing to deserve the criticism that he is getting so far, considering he is trying (and making efforts to) put an entire team on the field. that DJ williams quote where he said the D felt like second class players has stuck with me, and i gaurantee its not like that with mcdaniels.

Glad to see you break off from suckling his teat and get some air!

Free thought is a good thing!

I hope you continue to look at the complete picture in the future.

tsiguy96
04-30-2009, 07:44 PM
Glad to see you break off from suckling his teat and get some air!

Free thought is a good thing!

I hope you continue to look at the complete picture in the future.

ive always looked at the complete picture: there isnt one

he has not coached an NFL game, and thus he has not failed yet. he is not the reason jay cutler is gone, he may (or may not have) had a far better draft than shanahan averaged over his career, and the players seem to love him. morons like you tend to ignore this and dismiss his work now instead of waiting to see how it all turns out, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Pony Boy
04-30-2009, 08:04 PM
Don't you think that if they actually wanted that DT they would have taken him? Contrary to popular belief, these people aren't retarded. If after the next few seasons that DT emerges as a force, well then hooray, our front office fails. For now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they have some kind of idea of how to do their job.

Excellent point! I think if you look at the signing bonus they gave Chris Baker (6-2 326) it's obvious they had him rated higher than several DT's that were drafted. He might of been the target all along, he has tremendous potential if he can keep his head on straight. He could be a real sleeper.

broncosteven
04-30-2009, 08:07 PM
ive always looked at the complete picture: there isnt one

he has not coached an NFL game, and thus he has not failed yet. he is not the reason jay cutler is gone, he may (or may not have) had a far better draft than shanahan averaged over his career, and the players seem to love him. morons like you tend to ignore this and dismiss his work now instead of waiting to see how it all turns out, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Great latch, neither of my kids latched on to the wife, she had to pump.

BTW is his milk blue and orange or is it still Red, white and blue?

LOL

Kaylore
04-30-2009, 08:07 PM
I think his problem is he is the only guy in the room who didn't have the magic crystal ball that foresaw what a failure he is. Someone should let him know all those picks are busts and he'll win two games next year. :pity:

broncosteven
04-30-2009, 08:16 PM
I think his problem is he is the only guy in the room who didn't have the magic crystal ball that foresaw what a failure he is. Someone should let him know all those picks are busts and he'll win two games next year. :pity:

I am trying to remain open until I get to see the product on the grid iron but it is tough when you are a born and bred pessimist.

BTW I was quoting KFC record above and not saying that we were going to have same results.

I didn't expect playoffs in Wade's 1st year, I didn't expect them in Shanny's 1st year. When Revee's took over I was young enough to think the Broncos should win every game because I was a Bronco fan so I probably expected SB every year until about '83, I admit to thinking Floyd's last game was going to be after the SB.

fontaine
05-01-2009, 02:42 AM
He's rebuilding the defense from scratch basically and this was a weak draft for DL. I'd say he did the smart thing in taking significantly more talented DBs over DLs who might not even stick in the league through their first season.

I don't have a problem with that.

But if that was McD's reasoning then why didn't he do more prior to the draft to build up the front 7 and I'm not talking about the backup FAs we signed. Surely McD didn't just realize a couple of days ago that the draft was weak in the DL area and given the amount of cap space and picks we had then why not address the DL through FA?

I understand Smith might have been the best CB on their board but if you're going to trade away your first then why not do it for the best DE in the league in Peppers? The options were definitely there in FA, but McD didn't follow it up, whether it be guys like Chris Canty or Peppers so it's not like he should get a pass just because there was a weak DL class.

cutthemdown
05-01-2009, 03:10 AM
I don't have a problem with that.

But if that was McD's reasoning then why didn't he do more prior to the draft to build up the front 7 and I'm not talking about the backup FAs we signed. Surely McD didn't just realize a couple of days ago that the draft was weak in the DL area and given the amount of cap space and picks we had then why not address the DL through FA?

I understand Smith might have been the best CB on their board but if you're going to trade away your first then why not do it for the best DE in the league in Peppers? The options were definitely there in FA, but McD didn't follow it up, whether it be guys like Chris Canty or Peppers so it's not like he should get a pass just because there was a weak DL class.

Well for one Peppers will want big big money. Mcdaniels may feel a more measured rebuilding is needed. Be patient, draft good players and don't reach because of need, reach for them because you think they will be good NFL pro's. If it takes an extra yr or 2 to find the stud DT then so be it.

Peppers is a good player and I would love for him to be a Bronco, but after you trade the high pick for him, you have to give him a ton of money.

As much as it sucks, football is about money also so those considerations need to be factored in. By not having 2 more first round picks to sign next yr maybe we can still be active in FA.

Hopefully Broncos get good deals on Moreno and Ayers, anyone hear who their agents are yet?

cutthemdown
05-01-2009, 03:16 AM
I already see this Bronco team being better then last yr. I was really down on team last yr because I had no idea how good Clady and Harris would become. Those 2 players working out is so huge for the team it's hard to measure.

Losing Cutler hurts but I think Broncos offense has enough weapons that Orton or Simms will be able to score 24plus points a game. Good oline, some good wr, good TE, good RB, I mean really the offense is stacked people.

On the other side safety's are better and we have 2 new young players in Smith and Ayers to throw in. They may be young but the talent they are replacing was Engleberger and an older Dre Bly. If anything we are more athletic with ayers and smith. Plus Woodyard has an extra yr, I'm hoping he looks a little bigger.

We still seem defecient in the front 7 but not as bad as last yr.

fontaine
05-01-2009, 03:51 AM
Well for one Peppers will want big big money. Mcdaniels may feel a more measured rebuilding is needed. Be patient, draft good players and don't reach because of need, reach for them because you think they will be good NFL pro's. If it takes an extra yr or 2 to find the stud DT then so be it.

Peppers is a good player and I would love for him to be a Bronco, but after you trade the high pick for him, you have to give him a ton of money.

As much as it sucks, football is about money also so those considerations need to be factored in. By not having 2 more first round picks to sign next yr maybe we can still be active in FA.


That's irrelevant.

We don't have to pay Cutler what would have been one of the biggest deals in NFL history. We could have easily afforded Peppers. The fact is McD chose not to go after guys like Peppers/Canty etc in FA when the DL class was supposedly weak in the draft.

Drek
05-01-2009, 05:04 AM
I don't have a problem with that.

But if that was McD's reasoning then why didn't he do more prior to the draft to build up the front 7 and I'm not talking about the backup FAs we signed. Surely McD didn't just realize a couple of days ago that the draft was weak in the DL area and given the amount of cap space and picks we had then why not address the DL through FA?

I understand Smith might have been the best CB on their board but if you're going to trade away your first then why not do it for the best DE in the league in Peppers? The options were definitely there in FA, but McD didn't follow it up, whether it be guys like Chris Canty or Peppers so it's not like he should get a pass just because there was a weak DL class.

Peppers has never played in a 3-4 and is quite possibly the most wildly inconsistent player in the NFL. He looks like the best DL in the league on 5-10 snaps a game, the rest he ranges from slightly below to slightly above average. He's not the kind of guy you pay monstrous money to or bring into a locker room that already needs a chemistry makeover. Add that the price for him is a 1st and a 3rd (which the Panthers have apparently never backed down from) and you got a lot of reasons why you don't want to go get him.

Chris Canty signed with a strictly 4-3 team, what does that tell you? He isn't worth the $7M per year that he's now going to get as a 5-tech. I'd say its tough to justify it for him being a DE/DT multipurpose player in a 4-3.

I know we have some financial flexibility right now, but so does the rest of the league. High end FAs all got overpaid this year. We can't be as bold financially as a lot of teams because we do have some quality young players on the verge of extensions. Also, next year's uncapped season will likely see a massive wave of veteran cuts as teams shed big contracts. It'll splash the FA pool and make for a legitimate buyer's market. That is when we should enter FA strong.

Despite that we did still sign the best NT available on the FA market (Ron Fields, as sad as that is) and the best ILB who was reasonably willing to sign with anyone but the Ravens or Jets (Andra Davis, Lewis never even talked to another team and Bart Scott basically took the same plane as Rex Ryan to NYC).

If the FA market for DLs wasn't so damn aweful you might have seen some teams less willing to overdraft what few decent DL prospects this draft had.