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View Full Version : TSN calls the Smith pick "Genious"


ZONA
04-28-2009, 10:19 PM
The Sports Network
04/28/2009
By Tony Moss, NFL Editor


Clearly, the years of the Broncos throwing any old running back into the fray, and expecting him to be successful, are over. Moreno represents a philosophical change from the Mike Shanahan era to the Josh McDaniels regime, and will help take the pressure off whoever plays quarterback. That said, the Broncos had bigger needs on the defensive side of the football. The selection of Ayers made a bit more sense, as the Tennessee product will fit perfectly into the 3-4 scheme Denver will employ defensively. The pick of Smith in the second round might be one of the underrated genius picks of the first day, as he is a noted playmaker who will have a ton of opportunities playing opposite Champ Bailey. McBath, a converted corner who is not seen as being physical, was a second-round reach. Denver dealt with Pittsburgh in order to select Quinn, a well-regarded blocking tight end, as the final pick of the first day. In the sixth round, the round in which New England got Tom Brady, McDaniels traded up to get Brandstater. Watch Brandstater closely.

1 - Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia (5-11, 217); 1 - Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee (6-3, 272); 2 - Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest (5-9, 193); 2 - Darcel McBath, S, Texas Tech (6-0, 198); 2 - Richard Quinn, TE, North Carolina (6-4. 264) 4 - David Bruton, S, Notre Dame (6-2, 219); 4 - Seth Olsen, OL, Iowa (6-5, 306); 5 - Kenny McKinley, WR, South Carolina (6-0, 189); 6 - Tom Brandstater, QB, Fresno State (6-5, 220); 7 - Blake Schlueter, C, TCU (6-2, 286)

footstepsfrom#27
04-28-2009, 10:41 PM
The Sports Network
04/28/2009
By Tony Moss, NFL Editor

Clearly, the years of the Broncos throwing any old running back into the fray, and expecting him to be successful, are over. Moreno represents a philosophical change from the Mike Shanahan era to the Josh McDaniels regime, and will help take the pressure off whoever plays quarterback.
It's interesting that Denver RB's are disrespected (any old running back) while New England QB's are great players...despite equivilent draft status. "Whoever plays quarterback"...I guess Orton's the next Brady then. ::)

McDman
04-28-2009, 10:41 PM
Well I question there knowledge when they say Ayers will fit perfectly in the 3-4, he's never played it, how do the know if he will or won't?

lex
04-28-2009, 10:42 PM
...in other news, Phil Collins calls the pick "Genesis."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqQv3qef21A

footstepsfrom#27
04-28-2009, 10:43 PM
"Genius" is a vastly over used word these days. It's surprising how little you need to do to get tagged with that. Smith's skill set is the same as Dre Bly's...a guy that cost no draft picks at all, and one many people wanted to run out of town a short time ago.

Dudeskey
04-28-2009, 10:46 PM
Aren't TSN & ESPN one & the same?

bronco0608
04-28-2009, 10:51 PM
And here I was thinking that TSN wrote "genious" in the article.

Only reason I opened the thread, really. Good post, though.

jsco70
04-28-2009, 11:12 PM
It's interesting that Denver RB's are disrespected (any old running back) while New England QB's are great players...


This is a very good point. I'm sure TD's quite offended whenever he hears about the Denver RB system. However, it was pretty hard to deny at least up through Mike Anderson as back after back produced. Particularly Olandis Gary and Ruben Droughns, and to a lesser extent Tatum Bell.

So what is the general conclusions regarding the RB success over the course of the past decade? Is it Bobby Turner? The zone blocking scheme? Shanahan's eye for talent? Personally, I believe the majority of success is due to the zone blocking installed by Alex Gibbs. He revolutionized the scheme and it took awhile for teams to catch on. However, talent certainly played a part as Portis and TD took it to the next level compared to the previous backs I listed.

As for the Smith pick, I like what I hear about him but he'll have to prove it on the field.

lex
04-28-2009, 11:23 PM
This is a very good point. I'm sure TD's quite offended whenever he hears about the Denver RB system. However, it was pretty hard to deny at least up through Mike Anderson as back after back produced. Particularly Olandis Gary and Ruben Droughns, and to a lesser extent Tatum Bell.

So what is the general conclusions regarding the RB success over the course of the past decade? Is it Bobby Turner? The zone blocking scheme? Shanahan's eye for talent? Personally, I believe the majority of success is due to the zone blocking installed by Alex Gibbs. He revolutionized the scheme and it took awhile for teams to catch on. However, talent certainly played a part as Portis and TD took it to the next level compared to the previous backs I listed.

As for the Smith pick, I like what I hear about him but he'll have to prove it on the field.

Or what about Joe Montant being a system QB?

fdf
04-28-2009, 11:23 PM
"Genius" is a vastly over used word these days.

Of course, these days, overused also are the words: "McDoofus", "idiot", "McStalin", and various epithets based on Jay Cutler's name. I suspect the OrangeMane, by itself, has shifted the distribution of words on all English language websites somewhat more toward epithets. What is it about the internet that causes folks, probably otherwise sensible, to act like 6th graders?

This might as well be some stupid political forum. "BushHitler", "Shrub", "Obamination" etc.

ton80
04-29-2009, 12:36 AM
Well I question there knowledge when they say Ayers will fit perfectly in the 3-4, he's never played it, how do the know if he will or won't?

I want to know if he's going to play outside LB or end. Based on his measurables, he seems fit to play end in a 4-3. What's it going to be with this guy? Anyone have any thoughts?

ZONA
04-29-2009, 01:33 AM
The only reason why I think TSN may really like this move by Denver to pick up Smith is because maybe they have some inside knowledge that many teams had him high on their draft boards. Sure, of all the "mock" drafts you saw you may not have seen him on their for a 1st round pick but as we all know, what ESPN and others have as their "best" players doesn't translate to what teams have on their boards. My only guess is that quite a few teams probably had him somewhere in their top 32 players or top 50, something like that.

footstepsfrom#27
04-29-2009, 02:20 AM
This is a very good point. I'm sure TD's quite offended whenever he hears about the Denver RB system. However, it was pretty hard to deny at least up through Mike Anderson as back after back produced. Particularly Olandis Gary and Ruben Droughns, and to a lesser extent Tatum Bell.

So what is the general conclusions regarding the RB success over the course of the past decade? Is it Bobby Turner? The zone blocking scheme? Shanahan's eye for talent? Personally, I believe the majority of success is due to the zone blocking installed by Alex Gibbs. He revolutionized the scheme and it took awhile for teams to catch on. However, talent certainly played a part as Portis and TD took it to the next level compared to the previous backs I listed.

As for the Smith pick, I like what I hear about him but he'll have to prove it on the field.
It's amazing to me that so many Denver fans don't understand the system Shanahan used here in our running game after seeing it for 13 years of watching it. The ZBS is not a magic formula for success transferable to "any old running back" as The Sporting News described it. What's made it so productive is the fact that it was until recently at least, an aberration...something teams rarely saw because only Denver...then later Atlanta...used it.

The system does not permit untalented runners to succeed, but what it does do is redefine the parameters of the athletic skill set that makes an RB able to gain yards. Power blocking teams put a premium on either power between the tackles or speed and quickness to bounce the play outside. ZBS places the premium on vision, balance and the ability to make an instantaneous decision as the hole opens. Having the vision to see the hole open before it actually does and the ability to cut quickly, decisively and avoid reverting to the normal RB instincts that mean trying to "make a move" are what produce results. Speed is secondary to vision and discipline.

Just because Davis et all were drafted later, doesn't mean they lacked talent, it only means the talent they had fit this system better than the traditional one used by most teams. TD and Ports would have been successful anywhere, and Anderson was also very talented but was drafted late because of his age. Droughns gained over 1000 yards in Cleveland as well as here. Gary got hurt in Denver and wasn't the same. Bell never had the ability to be more than a 15 carry a game back, and his performance in Denver reflected that.

footstepsfrom#27
04-29-2009, 02:37 AM
I want to know if he's going to play outside LB or end. Based on his measurables, he seems fit to play end in a 4-3. What's it going to be with this guy? Anyone have any thoughts?
You just nailed the prime question in this draft that few people are talking about. I gaurantee they'd be talking about it if he were drafted for the Chiefs instead. All the attention's on the CB pick or trading the #1, some on the Quinn pick in the 2nd. Meanwhile...we've spent our Chicago pick on a tweener that IMO seems like less of a sure thing than somebody like Orakpo for example. At 272 pounds he's about 30 pound smaller than the prototype 3-4 DE and his combine forty...4.9...does not inspire confidence that he's equipped to play the OLB spot either. He's quick...we saw that on tape...so was Moss. He's also underdeveloped strengthwise like Moss was, not as much but his combine performance was extremely mediocre. This guy got only 18 reps on the BP...that's cornerback territory. I know what people will say...combine results mean nothing. This of course is untrue.

The NFL doesn't test these guys for no reason. Sure there are workout warriors who "look like Tarzan play like Jane", but the fact is Ayers did not produce on the field untill halfway through his senior season. He made his money in this draft at the Senior Bowl. There's a possibility he's one of these dudes who takes the big contract and then mails it in. I hope I'm wrong...but for all the reasons listed, I'm not sure why somebody as smart as Mayock thinks he's going to be the best defensive player in the draft. People keep quoting that as if it's a definintive projection...but no other NFL team thought this. If they had he'd have gone much higher.

Elway777
04-29-2009, 03:00 AM
Most of the NFL draft junkies on other message boards call it something else.

Dedhed
04-29-2009, 04:23 AM
"Genius" is a vastly over used word these days. It's surprising how little you need to do to get tagged with that. Smith's skill set is the same as Dre Bly's...a guy that cost no draft picks at all, and one many people wanted to run out of town a short time ago.

You're just parroting whatever draft guide it was who made a comparison between Smith and Bly. Mostly because he had a ton of picks in college like Bly did in the NFL, but it's laziness on the reporter's part because other than the INTs they aren't similar. It's even lazier on your part for taking one reporter's snippet and running around with it as gospel.

Breaker
04-29-2009, 04:49 AM
I don't know about that. Assuming that trading 1st rounder for a 2nd rounder is a good idea, I would have preferred to take Rey Maualuga with that pick, a position of major need. We still could have gotten Alphonso Smith, Darius Butler, Sean Smith, or D.J Moore, if we wanted to grab a CB where we took Darcel McBath, and we could have grabbed Rashad Johnson the S from Alabama in the 4th round. We could have filled the hole at ILB with Rey Rey, taken two quality corners, one in the second and one in third, and picked up a quality S in the fourth.

Its not neccesarily the players that we picked that I have a major issue with, its the fact that most of these positions could have been filled at a later time with quality players and we missed out on two huge needs, DT and ILB.

Drek
04-29-2009, 05:39 AM
"Genius" is a vastly over used word these days. It's surprising how little you need to do to get tagged with that. Smith's skill set is the same as Dre Bly's...a guy that cost no draft picks at all, and one many people wanted to run out of town a short time ago.

Except Dre Bly is old and broke down and Smith is young and has his whole career ahead of him.

Dre Bly was a pro-bowler in '03 and '04. You don't make consecutive pro-bowls from a fluke good season, you do that when you've earned the respect of the competition around the league. We've only seen the couple steps slower, few years older version of Bly here in Denver, but in his prime he was an elite corner.

broncswin
04-29-2009, 07:18 AM
Except Dre Bly is old and broke down and Smith is young and has his whole career ahead of him.

Dre Bly was a pro-bowler in '03 and '04. You don't make consecutive pro-bowls from a fluke good season, you do that when you've earned the respect of the competition around the league. We've only seen the couple steps slower, few years older version of Bly here in Denver, but in his prime he was an elite corner.

Exactly, the Bly we got was into his 2nd year of decline. Bly was one hella corner when he was younger, so if we got a guy that is compared to a young bly I'll take it, ecspecially when you factor in that Smith is very good at coming up and smacking guys in the mouth in the run game as well, that my friends was never part of Bly's game, so I guess thats good right:strong:

colonelbeef
04-29-2009, 07:24 AM
It's amazing to me that so many Denver fans don't understand the system Shanahan used here in our running game after seeing it for 13 years of watching it. The ZBS is not a magic formula for success transferable to "any old running back" as The Sporting News described it. What's made it so productive is the fact that it was until recently at least, an aberration...something teams rarely saw because only Denver...then later Atlanta...used it.

The system does not permit untalented runners to succeed, but what it does do is redefine the parameters of the athletic skill set that makes an RB able to gain yards. Power blocking teams put a premium on either power between the tackles or speed and quickness to bounce the play outside. ZBS places the premium on vision, balance and the ability to make an instantaneous decision as the hole opens. Having the vision to see the hole open before it actually does and the ability to cut quickly, decisively and avoid reverting to the normal RB instincts that mean trying to "make a move" are what produce results. Speed is secondary to vision and discipline.

Just because Davis et all were drafted later, doesn't mean they lacked talent, it only means the talent they had fit this system better than the traditional one used by most teams. TD and Ports would have been successful anywhere, and Anderson was also very talented but was drafted late because of his age. Droughns gained over 1000 yards in Cleveland as well as here. Gary got hurt in Denver and wasn't the same. Bell never had the ability to be more than a 15 carry a game back, and his performance in Denver reflected that.

Listen to this man, he knows of what he speaks. Shanahan was an offensive genuis and he will he sorely missed.

barryr
04-29-2009, 07:29 AM
Looks like some are bound and determined not to like Smith even though they never even saw him play in college. But they know so much more than those that did see him.

Again, the Broncos don't make this trade if they believe Smith isn't going to be an elite type player. He hasn't even played a preseason game yet and already he's "no better than Bly." That's from people who want him to fail. How sad. "Bronco fans" actually wanting a guy to fail.

MileHighMagic
04-29-2009, 08:25 AM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.element/img/4.0/global/writer_headshots/peter_king.jpg Peter King > INSIDE THE NFL

1. Detroit Lions
Matthew Stafford | Quarterback | Georgia

2. St. Louis Rams
Jason Smith | Tackle | Baylor

3. Kansas City Chiefs
Tyson Jackson | Defensive end | LSU

*UPDATE*
4. Seattle Seahawks
Michael Crabtree | Wide receiver | Texas Tech

5. Cleveland Browns
Aaron Curry | Linebacker | Wake Forest

6. Cincinnati Bengals
B.J. Raji | Defensive tackle | Boston College

7. Oakland Raiders
Jeremy Maclin | Wide receiver | Missouri

*UPDATE*
Jaguars trade pick to Redskins
8. Washington Redskins
Mark Sanchez | Quarterback | USC

9. Green Bay Packers
Andre Smith | Tackle | Alabama

*UPDATE*
10. San Francisco 49ers
Eugene Monroe | Tackle | Virginia

11. Buffalo Bills
Aaron Maybin | Defensive end | Penn State

12. Denver Broncos
Brian Orakpo | Defensive end | Texas

*UPDATE*
Redskins trade pick to Jaguars
13. Jacksonville Jaguars
Michael Oher | Tackle | Mississippi

14. New Orleans Saints
Malcolm Jenkins | Cornerback | Ohio State

15. Houston Texans
Brian Cushing | Linebacker | USC

16. San Diego Chargers
Knowshon Moreno | Running back | Georgia

17. New York Jets
Connor Barwin | LB-DE-TE | Cincinnati

18. Denver Broncos (from Bears)
Peria Jerry | Defensive tackle | Mississippi

19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Josh Freeman | Quarterback | Kansas State

*UPDATE*
20. Detroit Lions (from Cowboys)
Robert Ayers | DE-LB | Tennessee

21. Philadelphia Eagles
LeSean McCoy | Running back | Pitt

22. Minnesota Vikings
Alex Mack | Center | Cal

23. New England Patriots
Percy Harvin | Wide receiver | Florida

*UPDATE*
Falcons trade pick to Bills
24. Buffalo Bills
Brandon Pettigrew | Tight end | Oklahoma State

25. Miami Dolphins
Clay Matthews | Linebacker | USC

26. Baltimore Ravens
Rey Maualuga | Linebacker | USC

*UPDATE*
27. Indianapolis Colts
Darrius Heyward-Bay | Wide receiver | Maryland

*UPDATE*
Bills trade pick to Falcons
28. Atlanta Falcons
Evander "Ziggy" Hood | DT | Missouri

29. Cleveland Browns (from Giants)
Alphonso Smith | Cornerback | Wake Forest

Cleveland acquires this pick and a fourth-rounder from the WR-needy Giants in exchange for Braylon Edwards. Smith might be the best cover guy in the draft.

30. Tennessee Titans
Max Unger | Center | Oregon

31. Arizona Cardinals
Donald Brown | Running back | UConn

32. Pittsburgh Steelers
Vontae Davis | Cornerback | Illinois

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/24/mock/index.html

Mogulseeker
04-29-2009, 08:31 AM
And here I was thinking that TSN wrote "genious" in the article.

Only reason I opened the thread, really. Good post, though.

That's the reason why I opened it up too. I thought TSN had a horrible gaffe in journalism.

Otherwise, the news is just blah.

Elway777
04-29-2009, 01:01 PM
I guess it could be a genius move if the Broncos sign Wilfork with the money from the rookie contract next year and Smith becomes a All Pro corner.

The Moops
04-29-2009, 07:02 PM
I would never give up a #1 for a second-round pick . . . but I have to say, I loved this kid at Wake. He is a great playmaker and a great kid.

Small, but so was Darrell Green . . .

I am willing to wait a couple years to hold judgment.

footstepsfrom#27
04-29-2009, 07:16 PM
You're just parroting whatever draft guide it was who made a comparison between Smith and Bly. Mostly because he had a ton of picks in college like Bly did in the NFL, but it's laziness on the reporter's part because other than the INTs they aren't similar. It's even lazier on your part for taking one reporter's snippet and running around with it as gospel.
First, I didn't read it anywhere, I said it because they're similar in stature and speed and both are gambling CB's who create turnovers. Second, there's nothing lazy about drawing a comparison based on the things I just stated. I guess I need to read every jot and tittle on the web before I dare to post...

Whatever.