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Bronco Rob
04-28-2009, 09:07 AM
Defensive line still needs concrete middle man; coach says tinkering will continue


After spending the past three months dismantling and then slowly rebuilding the Broncos' roster, Josh McDaniels and his staff finally have most of the pieces of what ultimately will be the 2009 team. Denver added two players in the draft who could be immediate starters: running back Knowshon Moreno and defensive end Robert Ayers. Others, such as cornerback Alphonso Smith and tight end Richard Quinn, are expected to push veterans for playing time. But McDaniels said the team will continue to tinker with the roster through August, a statement that makes sense, considering the team still has plenty of needs. Here's a position-by-position look at where the Broncos stand and holes they still need to fill.

Linebackers

What they have:

The Broncos have two solid starters inside in Andra Davis and D.J. Williams, with Wesley Woodyard and Spencer Lar-sen expected to provide depth. The bigger question is outside, where the team lacks players with experience aside from Boss Bailey, who is in the midst of a lengthy rehab from knee surgery. Elvis Dumervil, Darrell Reid, Tim Crowder and Jarvis Moss will get a shot at playing outside in the new 3-4 scheme, but all are being converted from the defensive line.
What they need: Coaches are counting on the former ends, listed above, and particularly Dumervil, to quickly make the transition to outside linebacker. Dumervil was the team's best pass rusher when he was an end, where he was undersized. He'll need to learn to be even more effective in the new position.

Defensive line

What they have: Draft pick Robert Ayers could — and should — be an immediate starter at end. Coaches are looking at several players, including Ronald Fields and Carlton Powell, to compete at nose tackle. Marcus Thomas, entering his third season, could be tried at end and tackle.

What they need: This unit still has the most room for improvement, particularly in the middle. The best 3-4 defenses have a monster nose tackle, and the Broncos ignored the position in the draft.

Secondary

What they have: This group has received perhaps the biggest upgrade since the end of 2008 with the moves made in free agency and the draft. The unit has an interesting combination of veterans and talented young players, which should make for interesting competition at training camp.

What they need: Not much, if anything. The biggest thing that can help the secondary now is to fortify the pass rush.

Quarterback

What they have: With the addition of Tom Brandstater in the sixth round, the Broncos again have three quarterbacks. Kyle Orton likely will end up the starter, beating out Chris Simms, but look for lively competition in camp.

What they need: McDaniels seems confident in Orton and Simms. The need now is for McDaniels to coach Orton to play at least somewhat like Tom Brady. It's the only way folks will forget about the Jay Cutler fiasco.

Offensive line

What they have: Five returning starters. How about that? The team drafted some depth, with guard Seth Olsen and center Blake Schlueter.

What they need: Nothing now, except for the type of production and protection the line provided in 2008.

Tight end

What they have: With Daniel Graham, Tony Scheffler and Richard Quinn — the team's third second-round draft pick last weekend — the Broncos have plenty of depth. But will it stay that way, or will Scheffler be moved?

What they need: If McDaniels isn't going to use Scheffler, and Scheffler isn't going to be happy, maybe the team needs to consider trading him.

Wide receiver

What they have: Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal made up one of the best receiver tandems in the NFL last year and should continue to be that as long as Marshall gets healthy and is on the active roster. Throw in Brandon Stokley and Jabar Gaffney, and this is as solid a receiving corps as they come. Rookie Kenny McKinley adds depth and speed.

What they need: The Broncos need Marshall to get healthy and stay out of trouble. If he doesn't recover well from hip surgery or receives a suspension from the NFL, the team will need a physical No. 1 receiver.

Running back

What they have: This group just got a whole lot better with the addition of first-round draft pick Know-shon Moreno. But it's a crowded backfield with Moreno; free-agent acquisitions Correll Buckhalter, J.J. Arrington and LaMont Jordan; along with Mike Shanahan holdovers Peyton Hillis and Ryan Torain. A couple of those players won't make the final roster.

What they need: Conventional wisdom said the Broncos were set at tailback before the draft. So they really ought to be set now. The Broncos need Moreno to live up to the hype as a superstar running back and a high first-round pick.



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12241372?source=rss

Mogulseeker
04-28-2009, 09:09 AM
I have to give it to McDaniels. He has a plan. I'm bummed we lost Cutler, and I thought we didn't have to give up so much value for Alphonso Smith, but I can see this team potentially going 11-5 this year.

Bronco Rob
04-28-2009, 09:12 AM
I have to give it to McDaniels. He has a plan. I'm bummed we lost Cutler, and I thought we didn't have to give up so much value for Alphonso Smith, but I can see this team potentially going 11-5 this year.


That is definitely in the realm of possibility.

Dutch
04-28-2009, 09:19 AM
I agree.

supermanhr9
04-28-2009, 09:25 AM
we'll see,, it all depends on the backfield. I am not worried about the pass, because you can plug anyone into new englands pass offense and it will work (i.e. matt cassle) but we need to get back the amazing rush and defense, that's how we won 2 in a row!

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 09:39 AM
I'm thinking 12-4 ... at least.

OBF1
04-28-2009, 09:41 AM
It still will come down to how fast this team gels. Some good points we made in the original post, alot of positions are set.... But it is still the DL that is in question.

Can coach Nolan make a difference with them?

USMCBladerunner
04-28-2009, 09:44 AM
Jay Cutler can kiss my ass, but losing him will cost this team big time. I don't see 11-5 being very realistic. I say 7-9.

Mogulseeker
04-28-2009, 09:44 AM
I think 9-7 to 10-6 is more realisitic, but as CB said, it depends on how the team gels.

People are putting too much emphasis on Jay Cutler.

The Broncos werent going to win the Super Bowl next year anyway, and frankly I'm glad we lost Cutler's attitude.

Orton is Cutler's polar opposite personality-wise, and I think people will be suprised that, while he might not be a Pro Bowler, he'll have better stats than Jay at seasons end.

I'm more optimisitc about this year than last.

broncsyanks
04-28-2009, 09:45 AM
7-9. let the reconstruction begin

Liquid Courage
04-28-2009, 09:46 AM
Defensive line still needs concrete middle man; coach says tinkering will continue


Defensive line

What they have: Draft pick Robert Ayers could and should be an immediate starter at end. Coaches are looking at several players, including Ronald Fields and Carlton Powell, to compete at nose tackle. Marcus Thomas, entering his third season, could be tried at end and tackle.

What they need: This unit still has the most room for improvement, particularly in the middle. The best 3-4 defenses have a monster nose tackle, and the Broncos ignored the position in the draft.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12241372?source=rss

I guess I am failing to understand what the difference is between getting a guy like Chris Baker as an UDFA - who has equal or better measurables at often times equally unproven programs - than guys who would have otherwise checked this box off had we used an actual pick to get them.

Had we spent a 3rd on a guy like Moala, Miller, Irvin or Scott then I am sure most of the paper pundits would have assumed we met the need; but I don't see anything to indicate these players will be better/worse prospects than Baker who we are getting for next to no risk at all.

Baker was listed at 6'2" and 326lbs (4lbs less than Ron Brace) and aside from a weaker bench press he showed explosiveness and a much better athleticism. Seems to me that with a little coaching (which we can only hope has improved with the new regime) and additional time in the training room, this guy will be just as much a factor yet is completely ignored.

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 09:52 AM
I don't understand the articles foregone conclusion that the 3-4 is the ultimate goal. It doesn't look like that is the goal. They could have drafted Barwin and Kruger for cheap in round 2 if they wanted to go 3-4 really bad. Both of them seem to be good OLB types in the 3-4. Big, fast, agile. Orakpo also and they passed on him.

gyldenlove
04-28-2009, 09:54 AM
I guess I am failing to understand what the difference is between getting a guy like Chris Baker as an UDFA - who has equal or better measurables at often times equally unproven programs - than guys who would have otherwise checked this box off had we used an actual pick to get them.

Had we spent a 3rd on a guy like Moala, Miller, Irvin or Scott then I am sure most of the paper pundits would have assumed we met the need; but I don't see anything to indicate these players will be better/worse prospects than Baker who we are getting for next to no risk at all.

Baker was listed at 6'2" and 326lbs (4lbs less than Ron Brace) and aside from a weaker bench press he showed explosiveness and a much better athleticism. Seems to me that with a little coaching (which we can only hope has improved with the new regime) and additional time in the training room, this guy will be just as much a factor yet is completely ignored.


If only football was played on the track. Did you ever hear of Mike Kudla? you should look him up.

Weight, bench press and 40 yard times have absolutely nothing to do with how you are on the field. I bet you there are 400 lbs guys who can bench press a lot more than Casey Hampton but would look like pins on a bowling alley if you stuck them in the middle of the Steelers defensive line. Football is about skill and instinct, especially the defensive line. There is a reason why Ryan Clady isn't a DT, he has the size of a NT, he is strong and he is very quick, but his skill isn't DT.

Broncoman13
04-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Baker will need to stay out of trouble and I think he will. Marcus Thomas, Kenny Peterson and Carlton Powell will play the 3-4 end while Ayers moves around in the set. On 3rd down passing situations I expect Powell will come out. Ayers and Marcus Thomas willl play in the middle and Peterson and Doom will play at end. Should get a pretty good pass rush on 3rd and long.

Honestly, as long as our CBs aren't playing 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 4... I'll be fine with it!!!

Mogulseeker
04-28-2009, 10:01 AM
7-9. let the reconstruction begin

Cause going 7-9 and reconstructing is soooo much worse than going 8-8 year in and year out, and going 10 years with one playoff win.

It's not even that dreary. The Broncos will have a strong running attack and a good short passing game.

We'll have beeter field position, a much improved defense and red zone offense. Granted, we might make it there fewer times, but we'll be a hell of a lot more efficient.

The Broncos will go 10-6 this year, but miss out on the playoffs, and IF McD plays it right, we could be contenders next year.

eddie mac
04-28-2009, 10:04 AM
I don't understand the articles foregone conclusion that the 3-4 is the ultimate goal. It doesn't look like that is the goal. They could have drafted Barwin and Kruger for cheap in round 2 if they wanted to go 3-4 really bad. Both of them seem to be good OLB types in the 3-4. Big, fast, agile. Orakpo also and they passed on him.

Seems none of those were that high on Denver's board and aside from Kruger the other 2 ended up as basic DE's on base 4-3 teams.

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 10:05 AM
And the article said the conventional wisdom was the team was set at tailback before the draft. That is ludicrous.

Mogulseeker
04-28-2009, 10:12 AM
What they need: McDaniels seems confident in Orton and Simms. The need now is for McDaniels to coach Orton to play at least somewhat like Tom Brady. It's the only way folks will forget about the Jay Cutler fiasco.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12241372?source=rss

I like this quote... basically, we're to believe that if Orton = Brady, than the Broncos = Superbowl Champs!

LOL

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 10:21 AM
Seems none of those were that high on Denver's board and aside from Kruger the other 2 ended up as basic DE's on base 4-3 teams.

My point was all three could have done well at OLB if indeed Denver wanted to go 3-4 really bad. What do you think? Going into the draft I was thinking Nolan wanted to go to the 3-4 really bad like the article assumed. And that led me to believe Barwin, Orakpo, Kruger would fit in really well as OLB's.

It's a moot point now and not that important I suppose. I don't have a problem with Ayers, Smith, McBath, Moreno, Quinn. There are a lot of different ways to build a good football team, I agree with McD there.

Obushma
04-28-2009, 10:23 AM
I don't understand the articles foregone conclusion that the 3-4 is the ultimate goal. It doesn't look like that is the goal. They could have drafted Barwin and Kruger for cheap in round 2 if they wanted to go 3-4 really bad. Both of them seem to be good OLB types in the 3-4. Big, fast, agile.

I have to disagree here a bit.

Kruger ran slow at the combine, I believe it was in the 4.94 range. Now personally, I know that Kruger is faster then that, but that really hurt his chances as a 3-4 rush lb. We have a player in ED who has NFL experience, and in my opinion fits that role already.

I was on the Barwin Bandwagon.

gyldenlove
04-28-2009, 10:52 AM
My point was all three could have done well at OLB if indeed Denver wanted to go 3-4 really bad. What do you think? Going into the draft I was thinking Nolan wanted to go to the 3-4 really bad like the article assumed. And that led me to believe Barwin, Orakpo, Kruger would fit in really well as OLB's.

It's a moot point now and not that important I suppose. I don't have a problem with Ayers, Smith, McBath, Moreno, Quinn. There are a lot of different ways to build a good football team, I agree with McD there.

The problem is still that we had one of the worst defensive lines last years and have done little to improve it. Even if the other units are improved (and the secondary at least is) that may not matter much. It is the same story as on offense, you can have 10 hall of fame runningbacks but if your offensive line can't open holes it doesn't matter much. You can have 10 hall of fame receivers but if your QB has a noodle arm and can't get the ball to them it doesn't matter.

You can have 10 hall of fame cover corners, but if the QB has all day to find an open man it is not going to matter. You can have 10 hall of fame linebackers, but if they get blocked by guards all day, they are not going to stop the run.

IndyBronco
04-28-2009, 11:10 AM
Ptzfvgg

telluride
04-28-2009, 11:19 AM
One thing I think we can agree on: this team is going to be amped and prepared to play every single week. No more of those 2-3 games each season where Shanny simply didn't have the team ready. Those games infuriated me, and they happened every season, like clockwork.

prunch
04-28-2009, 11:33 AM
I think we will be a better team this year for the following reasons:

1. Young talented offense is one year older so they will make up for some of the drop off between cutler and his replacement. Moreno will add more to the running game combined with the maturing of the rest of the young offense. Orton has less flash but he has been productive. Not as good as cutler but i think since it is a team game, he will have the best offense he has ever had and subsequently will have the best stats he has ever had.
2. Offensive time of possession will improve due to more emphasis on the run game or short pass game. We will still have "home runs" but the offense will stay on the field longer.
3. Defense can only improve. Not counting on the rookies much but do expect our secondary has dramatically improved. I see that teams will still be able to run on us but i see a lot less TDs scored against us. When they get in long yardage or closer to the goal line, i see us making more stops. Point 2 above will mean they are not on the field for 40 minutes too.
4. McD seems to be taking special teams seriously and can only improve.

Our schedule is tough so we may not see many more wins but i see a better team.

BroncoMan4ever
04-28-2009, 11:59 AM
I have to give it to McDaniels. He has a plan. I'm bummed we lost Cutler, and I thought we didn't have to give up so much value for Alphonso Smith, but I can see this team potentially going 11-5 this year.

i agree. this team is looking like it will either surprise and kick ass, or is going to completely suck.

i don't think there is any middle ground coming from this team, it is either boom or bust.

Bronco Rob
04-28-2009, 02:05 PM
i agree. this team is looking like it will either surprise and kick ass, or is going to completely suck.

i don't think there is any middle ground coming from this team, it is either boom or bust.

We know out of the gate that kc and chokeland will be horrid and that the chargers are the only competition in the west.








:thumbs:

DeusExManning
04-28-2009, 02:08 PM
I'm thinking 12-4 ... at least.

I do think, even though I am still against the coaching change, that the Broncos will have a small advantage to begin the year. The unknown. Teams were clearly able to gameplan all of Shanny's tendencies and even though he mastered in the unpredictable, even that became predictable.

This will give us 1 to 2 wins.

I agree with 12-4

SlipperyPete
04-28-2009, 02:54 PM
Let's see...

We've gone 7-9 and 8-8 the past two years. We're switching schemes, both offensively and defensively. The front 7 of our horrid defense got a whopping 1 draft pick worth of help. We have an awful schedule. Marshall may still be suspended. And, oh yeah, WE TRADED OUR QB AWAY.

Oh, yeah, 11-12 wins easy.

Bronco Rob
04-28-2009, 03:38 PM
Let's see...

We've gone 7-9 and 8-8 the past two years. We're switching schemes, both offensively and defensively. The front 7 of our horrid defense got a whopping 1 draft pick worth of help. We have an awful schedule. Marshall may still be suspended. And, oh yeah, WE TRADED OUR QB AWAY.

Oh, yeah, 11-12 wins easy.


oh yee of little faith...........




:D

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 03:56 PM
Quinn is an interesting pick ... we overpaid, but let's just concentrate on how he fits in:

Patriots went several years and won SBs with a Daniel Graham/Ben Watson 1-2 punch ... Quinn is not a Watson-like man-child, but he does set up a 2-TE pairing that's similar.

But then the Pats cut Graham loose ...

So, to the extent McD is McHoodie ... thoughts?

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 04:04 PM
I agree with 12-4

Yeah, 12-4 here, and that'll screw the Seahawks but good. That'll teach them to demand our pick instead of the Bears ...

And what about the Bears? Orlando Pace is too old, Chris Williams is no Ryan Clady, Cutler will be exposed without the wideouts and the O-line, and Earl Bennett will probably not grow into the role. I suppose Desmond Clark and Greg Olson are decent TEs, but Matt Forte walks kinda funny ... I could see him tripping and falling in the players' parking lot and missing half the season.

So the Bears maybe 4-12, at most 6-10 ???

maher_tyler
04-28-2009, 04:13 PM
Let's see...

We've gone 7-9 and 8-8 the past two years. We're switching schemes, both offensively and defensively. The front 7 of our horrid defense got a whopping 1 draft pick worth of help. We have an awful schedule. Marshall may still be suspended. And, oh yeah, WE TRADED OUR QB AWAY.

Oh, yeah, 11-12 wins easy.

The D can't get any worse, i don't care if were changing schemes!! The guys on O are a year older. I don't think we finish 12-4 but i do think we'll be a much better football TEAM than we have been for awhile. I'm predicting 7-9/8-8.

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 04:20 PM
I have to disagree here a bit.

Kruger ran slow at the combine, I believe it was in the 4.94 range. Now personally, I know that Kruger is faster then that, but that really hurt his chances as a 3-4 rush lb. We have a player in ED who has NFL experience, and in my opinion fits that role already.

I was on the Barwin Bandwagon.

Both Barwin and Kruger I liked the measurables and productivity and both were available for cheap. That's how it goes sometimes, you winn some you lose some. I think Denver lost some by not grabbing one of them, especially Kruger. But Nolan didn't want to go to the 3-4, Kruger was a perfect fit for the 3-4 at OLB. Barwin I think also. Look who took Kruger - Baltimore. They knew he would last to the end of the 2nd round and were waiting to tap him. I would have liked to see Denver take the chance on him and Barwin both. Both big, fast, agile guys, both available in the 2nd round. We'll have to see how it plays out.

Where's Plummer???
04-28-2009, 04:21 PM
i could see if McD decides to get rid of scheffler tradin him for a decent nose

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 04:24 PM
The problem is still that we had one of the worst defensive lines last years and have done little to improve it. Even if the other units are improved (and the secondary at least is) that may not matter much. It is the same story as on offense, you can have 10 hall of fame runningbacks but if your offensive line can't open holes it doesn't matter much. You can have 10 hall of fame receivers but if your QB has a noodle arm and can't get the ball to them it doesn't matter.

You can have 10 hall of fame cover corners, but if the QB has all day to find an open man it is not going to matter. You can have 10 hall of fame linebackers, but if they get blocked by guards all day, they are not going to stop the run.

I was talking about drafting Orakpo, Barwin, Kruger. You're talking about something else.

Drek
04-28-2009, 04:55 PM
Let's see...

We've gone 7-9 and 8-8 the past two years. We're switching schemes, both offensively and defensively. The front 7 of our horrid defense got a whopping 1 draft pick worth of help. We have an awful schedule. Marshall may still be suspended. And, oh yeah, WE TRADED OUR QB AWAY.

Oh, yeah, 11-12 wins easy.

Wait, we didn't change D schemes heading into '07? And again heading into '08?

Oh, thats right. We did. And now we're moving towards a scheme that better fits what little front seven talent we have, and is actually being installed by quality coaches who have proven themselves at other stops in the exact same roles throughout their careers.

Bob Slowik was a great DB's coach, but he sucked as a DC. Mike Nolan sucked as an HC, but he's always been a great DC. You can go down the line on this coaching staff and see a bunch of guys who've all had success doing the very job we're asking them to do.

And unlike last year we won't be fielding a pair of corpses at safety, we probably won't have our CBs giving 10+ yards of space on every down, and we probably will stop asking our double digit sack producer to line up in a four point stance and fill lanes when he could instead be getting to the QB and making plays.

Offensively it gets even better. Ignore the fact that we now have a legit stud RB to pair with Hillis and a maturing OL and WR corps. We have the offensive mind behind the system Bates and Shanahan were trying to copy last year. Funny how that works out huh? So instead of a cheap knock off we'll have the real mccoy running the offense, after having much of the talent already prepped for it by the previous regime.

We should've been a 10-6 team last year, at worse, even with the defensive problems. Cutler and Bates gave games away. They did it against Jacksonville, Miami, and worst of the bunch, against Oakland IN DENVER. That isn't even considering the fact that we had chances to close out a three game divisional lead and failed.

Yeah, we can improve on the '08 season, shouldn't be hard as the rest of the division has done very little to improve themselves, while we've purged over a half dozen guys who don't even belong on an active roster but that the previous regime felt should be significant contributors or even starters.

Rock Chalk
04-28-2009, 05:26 PM
The problem is still that we had one of the worst defensive lines last years and have done little to improve it. Even if the other units are improved (and the secondary at least is) that may not matter much. It is the same story as on offense, you can have 10 hall of fame runningbacks but if your offensive line can't open holes it doesn't matter much. You can have 10 hall of fame receivers but if your QB has a noodle arm and can't get the ball to them it doesn't matter.

You can have 10 hall of fame cover corners, but if the QB has all day to find an open man it is not going to matter. You can have 10 hall of fame linebackers, but if they get blocked by guards all day, they are not going to stop the run.

I disagree.

The moment we fired Shanahan and, thus, all his little cronies on the defensive staff, our defensive line improved. Coaching, particularly in the trenches, is very important and Burney was a ****ing horrible coach. Mediator knows more about defensive stuff than anyone here (even if he isnt always right) and he provided some interesting stats about Burney's lines. They got progressively worse EVERY SEASON.

With Ayers, Thomas, Powell and Dumervil/Moss/Crowder combo depending on down and distance, our 4-3 line looks really solid.

And why people seem to think we are going to a 3-4 more than a 4-3 is ridiculous. Everyone of our defensive coaches have experience in BOTH defenses and by the looks of things, we will run a hybrid but be heavily still a 4-3 defense. That being the case, our defense really has greatly improved. We have a true run stopping bad ass safety, a ball hawking safety, a better 2nd corner, a better nickle corner, better coaching up front with better linebackers by default because Webster and Winborn are both gone.

Rohirrim
04-28-2009, 06:05 PM
I disagree.

The moment we fired Shanahan and, thus, all his little cronies on the defensive staff, our defensive line improved. Coaching, particularly in the trenches, is very important and Burney was a ****ing horrible coach. Mediator knows more about defensive stuff than anyone here (even if he isnt always right) and he provided some interesting stats about Burney's lines. They got progressively worse EVERY SEASON.

With Ayers, Thomas, Powell and Dumervil/Moss/Crowder combo depending on down and distance, our 4-3 line looks really solid.

And why people seem to think we are going to a 3-4 more than a 4-3 is ridiculous. Everyone of our defensive coaches have experience in BOTH defenses and by the looks of things, we will run a hybrid but be heavily still a 4-3 defense. That being the case, our defense really has greatly improved. We have a true run stopping bad ass safety, a ball hawking safety, a better 2nd corner, a better nickle corner, better coaching up front with better linebackers by default because Webster and Winborn are both gone.

Unfortunately, Winborn was our #1 tackler last season, which kind of points out how weak we were. The same people who are saying Orakpo couldn't play DE in a 3-4 are saying that Ayers will be great as a 3-4 DE. The two players are almost the exact same size. Ayers made his name rushing out of the three point stance. Why draft him to be a two gap run stuffer? I'm guessing you're right. We're still mostly a 4-3 D.

telluride
04-28-2009, 06:22 PM
I wonder if McDaniels will move some of RBs to try and grab some draft picks. I could see how teams might come out of training camp or preseason with injuries, and need an extra RB or two.

Odysseus
04-28-2009, 06:28 PM
Wait, we didn't change D schemes heading into '07? And again heading into '08?

Oh, thats right. We did. And now we're moving towards a scheme that better fits what little front seven talent we have, and is actually being installed by quality coaches who have proven themselves at other stops in the exact same roles throughout their careers.

Bob Slowik was a great DB's coach, but he sucked as a DC. Mike Nolan sucked as an HC, but he's always been a great DC. You can go down the line on this coaching staff and see a bunch of guys who've all had success doing the very job we're asking them to do.

And unlike last year we won't be fielding a pair of corpses at safety, we probably won't have our CBs giving 10+ yards of space on every down, and we probably will stop asking our double digit sack producer to line up in a four point stance and fill lanes when he could instead be getting to the QB and making plays.

Offensively it gets even better. Ignore the fact that we now have a legit stud RB to pair with Hillis and a maturing OL and WR corps. We have the offensive mind behind the system Bates and Shanahan were trying to copy last year. Funny how that works out huh? So instead of a cheap knock off we'll have the real mccoy running the offense, after having much of the talent already prepped for it by the previous regime.

We should've been a 10-6 team last year, at worse, even with the defensive problems. Cutler and Bates gave games away. They did it against Jacksonville, Miami, and worst of the bunch, against Oakland IN DENVER. That isn't even considering the fact that we had chances to close out a three game divisional lead and failed.

Yeah, we can improve on the '08 season, shouldn't be hard as the rest of the division has done very little to improve themselves, while we've purged over a half dozen guys who don't even belong on an active roster but that the previous regime felt should be significant contributors or even starters.

We should have easily won 10 games last year so winning 10 games this year, IMHO, is not much of an expectation. The fact that Raiders and Chiefs are in real rebuilding mode gives us an advantage.

This team still lacks a real defense that can change with play makers, execution and the pure will to take games away from teams. We laid down last year on defense and it was embarrassing. Everybody is on the bubble and they need to produce right away.

Broncos have not had a real running game in years. It does not matter if they are a pass first offense. When they run the ball they need to either burn up time or tear up yards. There is a difference between dictating a 1,000 yard running game or playing catch up and by accident running 1,000 yards. We need to dictate on offense and keep our defense off the field.

I am looking forward to seeing what kind of team this really is.

Odysseus
04-28-2009, 06:30 PM
I wonder if McDaniels will move some of RBs to try and grab some draft picks. I could see how teams might come out of training camp or preseason with injuries, and need an extra RB or two.

That would be incredibly lucky. I am not against having some good luck.

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 06:40 PM
I wonder if McDaniels will move some of RBs to try and grab some draft picks. I could see how teams might come out of training camp or preseason with injuries, and need an extra RB or two.

No way. Denver is thin at RB. I don't get where you guys think we're loaded. We have Corell, Hillis, Moreno, Selvin, as potential starters. JJ and Lamont as backups. That's it. Torain isn't coming back until December. We'll have to add backs, not subtract them.

BroncoMan4ever
04-28-2009, 06:43 PM
We know out of the gate that kc and chokeland will be horrid and that the chargers are the only competition in the west.



:thumbs:

i don't think we can count on the Chiefs being doormats anymore. they may not be good this year, but they are beginning to head in the right direction. plus we can't count on Herm shooting himself in the foot and taking the Chiefs down with him.

the Raiders will still suck

and with the Chargers, unless LT gets back to form and Merriman is healthy again, they are not head and shoulders above everyone else in the West and it might become a dog fight at the end of the season for the AFC West title.

Odysseus
04-28-2009, 06:44 PM
No way. Denver is thin at RB. I don't get where you guys think we're loaded. We have Corell, Hillis, Moreno, Selvin, as potential starters. JJ and Lamont as backups. That's it. Torain isn't coming back until December. We'll have to add backs, not subtract them.

We have so many backs I forgot about Torain. I guess I'm not much of a Broncos fan forgetting the "train".

I agree. I think we need a playmaker at RB. A guy who just carries the ball does not solve any problems.

BroncoMan4ever
04-28-2009, 06:46 PM
No way. Denver is thin at RB. I don't get where you guys think we're loaded. We have Corell, Hillis, Moreno, Selvin, as potential starters. JJ and Lamont as backups. That's it. Torain isn't coming back until December. We'll have to add backs, not subtract them.

Moreno starts and gets the bulk of the carries. Hillis is our version of the Pats Faulk, Jordan is a goal line/power back. JJ is a change of pace and return guy. Buckhalter is headed for IR, and Torain and Young are about to start searching the want ads.

we are pretty deep at RB

Br0nc0Buster
04-28-2009, 06:48 PM
Unfortunately, Winborn was our #1 tackler last season, which kind of points out how weak we were. The same people who are saying Orakpo couldn't play DE in a 3-4 are saying that Ayers will be great as a 3-4 DE. The two players are almost the exact same size. Ayers made his name rushing out of the three point stance. Why draft him to be a two gap run stuffer? I'm guessing you're right. We're still mostly a 4-3 D.

It doesnt matter if they are the same size, they have different skills.
Ayers plays much bigger than his size, while Orakpo seems to play smaller(as evident of him being mauled by TEs at times)

I am not sure yet if Ayers will be an end or OLBm, but he was good against the run, so he could fit at end

Bronco Rob
04-28-2009, 06:57 PM
i don't think we can count on the Chiefs being doormats anymore. they may not be good this year, but they are beginning to head in the right direction. plus we can't count on Herm shooting himself in the foot and taking the Chiefs down with him.

the Raiders will still suck

and with the Chargers, unless LT gets back to form and Merriman is healthy again, they are not head and shoulders above everyone else in the West and it might become a dog fight at the end of the season for the AFC West title.

The chefs are a joke. They paid Matt Grbac errr Cassel 15 million for his Scott Mitchell'esque season. Tony Gonzalez is gone and the only decent O-lineman Brian Waters wants out of kc..

The defense had 10 whole sacks last season and their solution was to sign some over the hill linebackers.....

;)

Dukes
04-28-2009, 07:09 PM
No way. Denver is thin at RB. I don't get where you guys think we're loaded. We have Corell, Hillis, Moreno, Selvin, as potential starters. JJ and Lamont as backups. That's it. Torain isn't coming back until December. We'll have to add backs, not subtract them.

Unless Selvin has naked pics of Bobby Turner he won't make it through training camp

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 07:42 PM
Moreno starts and gets the bulk of the carries. Hillis is our version of the Pats Faulk, Jordan is a goal line/power back. JJ is a change of pace and return guy. Buckhalter is headed for IR, and Torain and Young are about to start searching the want ads.

we are pretty deep at RB

HaHa, very funny. I'm rolling on the floor.

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 07:53 PM
Unless Selvin has naked pics of Bobby Turner he won't make it through training camp

With 8 backs on the roster today, they better hope he makes it through camp.

No sweat, they'll add some backs happy to get pay to exercise the D.

fdf
04-28-2009, 08:07 PM
. . . we probably won't have our CBs giving 10+ yards of space on every down.

Lord, I got tired of that. Year in and year out. It was our "guaranteed third down" conversion defense.

Odysseus
04-28-2009, 09:04 PM
Lord, I got tired of that. Year in and year out. It was our "guaranteed third down" conversion defense.

Our Swiss Cheese defensive line created that but playing 10 yards off the play in order to PREVENT our defense from doing anything is lame.

Drek
04-29-2009, 04:12 AM
Our Swiss Cheese defensive line created that but playing 10 yards off the play in order to PREVENT our defense from doing anything is lame.

You can't blame that on the DL. Slowik was in love with that even when the DL was semi-doing its job. He's been doing it with more and more frequency since he got here.

I blame it on Champ honestly. Champ is great giving that cushion, it lures a QB in and he's got the instincts and athleticism to snap back, close the gap, and make a play on the ball before the WR can stop him.

But he's one of only two or three CBs in the entire league who can do that. Bly in his prime might have been able to, but we didn't have a prime years Bly on this team. Paymah, Fxoworth (when he was here), Bell, and Jack Williams sure as **** couldn't. You got to coach to your talent and everything, but you coach to all of your talent, not just the superstar who can do it all.

rastaman
04-29-2009, 06:03 AM
I think 9-7 to 10-6 is more realisitic, but as CB said, it depends on how the team gels.

People are putting too much emphasis on Jay Cutler.

The Broncos werent going to win the Super Bowl next year anyway, and frankly I'm glad we lost Cutler's attitude.

Orton is Cutler's polar opposite personality-wise, and I think people will be suprised that, while he might not be a Pro Bowler, he'll have better stats than Jay at seasons end.

I'm more optimisitc about this year than last.

I predict 4-6 wins this season and 8-10 wins in 2010. Had Cutler stayed, I could see 9-10 wins this season. Followed by 11-14 wins in 2010. Loosing Cutler will prove to have set the Broncos back by two years, and thats if McDaniels overhauling of the Broncos to fit his image. Its a risky plan McDaniels has embarked upon. But hey, Bowlen will give McD 4-6 years to work his magic.

alkemical
04-29-2009, 06:25 AM
I predict 4-6 wins this season and 8-10 wins in 2010. Had Cutler stayed, I could see 9-10 wins this season. Followed by 11-14 wins in 2010. Loosing Cutler will prove to have set the Broncos back by two years, and thats if McDaniels overhauling of the Broncos to fit his image. Its a risky plan McDaniels has embarked upon. But hey, Bowlen will give McD 4-6 years to work his magic.

I agree - 4-6 wins is my call.

Mogulseeker
04-29-2009, 06:27 AM
I don't see it.

Our defense will be better.
Our ST will be better
Our offense might drop off a little, but will be more efficient.

We could (and should) have went 11-5 last year. Say we arent as lucky as last year and our offensive drop-off costs us two games - not likely - that puts us at 8-8.

Jay Cutler was good, but not THAT important.

Bronco Rob
04-29-2009, 01:09 PM
I don't see it.

Our defense will be better.
Our ST will be better
Our offense might drop off a little, but will be more efficient.

We could (and should) have went 11-5 last year. Say we arent as lucky as last year and our offensive drop-off costs us two games - not likely - that puts us at 8-8.

Jay Cutler was good, but not THAT important.





:thumbs:

SlipperyPete
04-30-2009, 04:46 PM
Wait, we didn't change D schemes heading into '07? And again heading into '08?

Oh, thats right. We did.

Yeah. We did. And the defense kept getting worse each time.

Guess what? It's still going to stink. And we're working completely back-asswards to fix it, adding corners and safeties when we should be loading up on as many warm bodies at linemen and linebackers as we can find.

I know I can hardly wait to see our new 35 year old safety get beaten over and over because there's nothing even resembling a pass rush to help him.

Offensively it gets even better.

LOL

You would have to be the most blind orange-bleeding homer in history to think that, in the span of one offseason, the combo of McDaniels + Orton will have our 2009 offense even remotely comparing to the offense we had a year ago with Cutler.

We should've been a 10-6 team last year, at worse

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

I don't even know what to say to that. If the refs don't blow the call, we lose to San Diego. If the Falcons WR doesn't drop the TD pass, we lose to Atlanta. If the Saints don't send out an injured kicker, we lose to New Orleans.

We LUCKED into being 8-8, and you're talking about 10 wins like we're actually that good. This just in: WE AREN'T.

Yeah, we can improve on the '08 season, shouldn't be hard as the rest of the division has done very little to improve themselves

San Diego rarely makes any moves. They went 8-8 without Merriman and now they're getting him back.

KC not having Herm Edwards is probably good for 2-3 more wins by itself. And they're actually building a defense the right way, focusing on boosting their defensive line and linebackers. If they hadn't traded Gonzalez, I'd have no doubt they would sweep us this year. As it stands now, I'm only slightly confident we can pull one out at home.

You've also ignored arguably the biggest issue of all, the fact that our schedule is about a million times worse than last year's.

In 2008 we were a fraud of a team that got exposed down the stretch. We traded away our best player, who also happened to play the single most important position on the field. We've done less than the bare minimum to help our greatest weakness, the defensive front seven.

What kind of bizarre prescription for rose-colored glasses does your doctor have you on?

SlipperyPete
04-30-2009, 04:54 PM
The chefs are a joke. They paid Matt Grbac errr Cassel 15 million for his Scott Mitchell'esque season.

Just so we're all clear, you think Matt Cassel is a joke. Yet McD, the coach you think is going to have us in double-digit wins, wanted to trade for him.

Which is it? Is McD a genius who's already shaped this roster into a contender, or is he an idiot who wanted us to trade for Scott Mitchell?

The defense had 10 whole sacks last season and their solution was to sign some over the hill linebackers.....

Actually, their solution was to completely revamp their front seven, which is how smart teams -- like, say, the New England Patriots -- have built their defenses.

Guys like Vrabel and Thomas won't be helping KC in 3 years, but they're solid veterans who will keep those spots warm until the Chiefs find their replacements.

Their strategy of focusing on the front seven is exactly what we should be doing, and the glaring difference in how Pioli approaches it and how McDaniels does is more than enough proof that we can abandon this idea of how we're doing everything "the Patriot way".

Bronco Rob
04-30-2009, 05:49 PM
Just so we're all clear, you think Matt Cassel is a joke. Yet McD, the coach you think is going to have us in double-digit wins, wanted to trade for him.

Which is it? Is McD a genius who's already shaped this roster into a contender, or is he an idiot who wanted us to trade for Scott Mitchell?



Actually, their solution was to completely revamp their front seven, which is how smart teams -- like, say, the New England Patriots -- have built their defenses.

Guys like Vrabel and Thomas won't be helping KC in 3 years, but they're solid veterans who will keep those spots warm until the Chiefs find their replacements.

Their strategy of focusing on the front seven is exactly what we should be doing, and the glaring difference in how Pioli approaches it and how McDaniels does is more than enough proof that we can abandon this idea of how we're doing everything "the Patriot way".


PUHLEEZE...

I never claimed MickeyD was a genius..

BUT Matt Cassel is Elvis Grbac jr...

Vrabel & Thomas are done..zero tread left on those tires...In fact they should retire instead of risking their already precarious health..

I mean they are risking their lives to play on a team that won SIX GAMES IN TWO SEASONS..in fact the Detroit Lions have won more games then the chefs have....

pathetic...

Odysseus
04-30-2009, 07:36 PM
You can't blame that on the DL. Slowik was in love with that even when the DL was semi-doing its job. He's been doing it with more and more frequency since he got here.

I blame it on Champ honestly. Champ is great giving that cushion, it lures a QB in and he's got the instincts and athleticism to snap back, close the gap, and make a play on the ball before the WR can stop him.

But he's one of only two or three CBs in the entire league who can do that. Bly in his prime might have been able to, but we didn't have a prime years Bly on this team. Paymah, Fxoworth (when he was here), Bell, and Jack Williams sure as **** couldn't. You got to coach to your talent and everything, but you coach to all of your talent, not just the superstar who can do it all.

I think our DL could have been better stopping the run, pressuring the QB or anything. It was amazing to watch the DL inconsistency. I am not a professional coach but that kind of crazy inconsistency is maddening.

I think Bailey had to play TOO MUCH of the field. He many million tackles did he get last season? We need to upgrade our cornerbacks from the top down to the bench. We need to get lucky and find one big DT.