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Popps
04-28-2009, 12:08 AM
You can all pull this thread up and blast me with it in a couple of years if things go south, but I believe he and the staff are making great strides to improve this team.

Props to him for being a guy who can go out and do what he needs to do. Proper decisions are not always popular ones, and championships aren't won without a few feelings getting hurt along the way.

This isn't about blindly supporting the new staff, but about giving them a little leeway to put their plan into motion, which I can see taking shape. Since the off-season began, the new staff has...

-Signed or drafted over 30 players to improve this team, more than 15 of them on defense.)
-Signed an all-world S and team leader for the defense.
-Brought in a DC with a history as a head coach and a successful coordinator.
-Landed the best RB in college football.
-Landed the best DE/OLB prospect in college football.
-Prioritized a team philosophy over individual, self-serving attitudes.
-Prioritized character players.
-Not only made a verbal commitment to improving special teams, but went out and acquired players to achieve those improvements.
-Conducted a highly targeted draft, adding extra picks now, to develop better players, sooner.
-Rid the defense of the dead weight that had no business of being out on the field.
-Created an atmosphere where players know they're going to compete for a position, no mater what their name is.
-Generated a genuine excitement in the players that is almost tangible and clearly evident when listening to young players like Dumervil and Marshall.

It's been a bumpy ride, but this staff has a highly focused plan and as a Broncos fan, I'm 100% behind them. McDaniels came from a culture of winning and has a track record as a coordinator that speaks for itself, much like our last great head coach.

Flame away, but I'm optimistic.

"...(When) I say we're going to change, I don't think anybody knows what that means. Including some of our players. Yet, they're going to find out. Then once they see us be successful from one week to the next, they're going to say, 'This works.' "

-Broncos Coach, Josh McDaniels

phisig150
04-28-2009, 12:15 AM
I second that. With all due respect to Shanny and the great success he brought over the year, the last decade we grew a little stale. We needed a change of direction desperately. He seems kind of like the Anti-Shanny. Character over talent. Bringing some of what makes the Pats great but putting his own twist on things. I say you give him 3 to 5 years and we won't disappointed. That being said I would rather have had Pioli and maybe a D guy like Spags or Ryan but I've definately warmed up to McDaniels.

Odysseus
04-28-2009, 12:19 AM
I appreciate that Josh is coming in behind a legend in Broncos football coaching, has a spoiled fan base, over indulged players, and despite his ham fisted approach to taking care of business he is willing to make the hard choices in the face of harsh opposition. I think he has a hard road ahead but winning cures all ills. He's made some good individual steps but it's early in the process. I look forward to seeing what the spring training reports yield, what free agents he picks up and seeing what our defense looks like compared to last year. It is refreshing to see a coach whose willing to attack his problems and I wish him and the Broncos organization all the best.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:19 AM
I second that. With all due respect to Shanny and the great success he brought over the year, the last decade we grew a little stale. We needed a change of direction desperately. He seems kind of like the Anti-Shanny. Character over talent. Bringing some of what makes the Pats great but putting his own twist on things. I say you give him 3 to 5 years and we won't disappointed. That being said I would rather have had Pioli and maybe a D guy like Spags or Ryan but I've definately warmed up to McDaniels.

I was a long-time Shanny supporter around here, and still love the guy. It think his message eventually got a little stale, and it was time for a change. (In addition to some very poor GM work over the last decade.) It was his actual coaching that kept his teams competitive, though... which is still a testament to him.

But, to me... the McDaniels hiring is eerily similar to bringing in a young Mike Shanahan, coming off of a great run as a coordinator in SF. Young guy, smart guy, knew exactly what he wanted to do and didn't need to ask anyone's permission to do it. (Aside from Bowlen, who in both cases... totally trusts his coach.)

azbroncfan
04-28-2009, 12:23 AM
Hey he cut the Engelberger so I'm all for him even though some here were claiming he was full of talent and just had poor coaching. Well he is still on the street and no other team showed interest in him and he was a starting DE last year.

Other than running Cutler off and at the end I was okay since he was acting like a primadonna, I have liked the out with the old and in with the new. Only time will tell.

phisig150
04-28-2009, 12:23 AM
Yeah I see where you going with the young offensive geniuses comparison but I think their overall philosophies and personalities are like night and day, which for the future is a good thing.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:26 AM
Hey he cut the Engelberger so I'm all for him even though some here were claiming he was full of talent and just had poor coaching. Well he is still on the street and no other team showed interest in him and he was a starting DE last year.l.

It'll be interesting to see if McCree, Engleberger and the likes can find jobs.

Honestly, like Ian Gold... we were starting guys that were so bad, other teams just flat out didn't want them, even as back-ups.

I do think Engleberger will find work... and not at UPS loading trucks. He'll wind up a cheap, back-up on a team running a 4-3 that needs depth. (As he should have been in Denver.)

OBF1
04-28-2009, 12:31 AM
All in. People seem to forget the crappy team he was handed over. Alot of work needed to be done and he is well on the way to fix it. But unlike some others here, I am smart enough to know it will be a 2 -3 year process.

watermock
04-28-2009, 12:41 AM
http://thedemocraticfanatic.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/josh-mcdaniels1.jpg.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:41 AM
All in. People seem to forget the crappy team he was handed over. Alot of work needed to be done and he is well on the way to fix it. But unlike some others here, I am smart enough to know it will be a 2 -3 year process.

I think people will be surprised by how competitive we are. Our record may not show it, but this team has some talent... and I guarantee you there's going to be a different attitude out there on Sundays.

Hulamau
04-28-2009, 12:45 AM
Excellent summary Popps, completely agree.

This isn't about blind loyalty at all, but simply facing the facts that this team was in need of a change, all due respect to Shanny who I also supported for years.

And look at the s**t storm McD has already endured and still kept his focus and is working double overtime to turn this into a solid cohesive team ASAP.

He's not going to get every detail right and will make plenty of unpopular decisions, and thank goodness he has the fortitude and vision to make those he has too without bending to public opinion.

He'll make his share of mistakes too along the way as every coach does, but he's doing a hell of a lot more right as well, and has the right attitude and big picture plan to restore us again to every year honestly competing for the whole enchilada like the last half of the 1990's.

This year is an unknown and with that brutal schedule we may make overall substantial progress as a team toward our ultimate goal and still miss the playoffs this year. The first half of the season is going to be a huge adjustment period as it is, with so many new and young faces, and a entirely new system on both O and D.

So patience and foresight is the key for enjoying this ride. And to me, it is just ludicrous for fans to want to tar and feather the guy ... and the team ... before anyone has even taken the field! This is NOT an episode of 'As The World Turns', as much as a relatively minor minority of guys here seem to want it to be ... its freakin' hard nose football.

Maybe I'm too old school, but it only makes common sense to at least offer the benefit of whatever doubts they may have and their SUPPORT, and give the guy a chance as he lays out and implements his vision before slitting their wrists.

But hey, whatever floats their boats I guess!

phisig150
04-28-2009, 12:46 AM
I think people will be surprised by how competitive we are. Our record may not show it, but this team has some talent... and I guarantee you there's going to be a different attitude out there on Sundays.

That's all I ask really. Put up a fight. Give me a fun and competitive game to watch every week. Oh and always sweep the Raiders. We can go 2-14 as long as we don't lose to the Raiders. Well I want at least 3 wins this year. Gotta beat "America's" team.

Hulamau
04-28-2009, 12:49 AM
All in. People seem to forget the crappy team he was handed over. Alot of work needed to be done and he is well on the way to fix it. But unlike some others here, I am smart enough to know it will be a 2 -3 year process.

True enough CBF1

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:50 AM
http://www.projo.com/photos/20071006/sp1006_mcdaniels_B_W_10-06-07_967DAB4.jpg

BY ROBERT LEE - Journal Sports Writer

Coaching football was always in Josh McDaniels’ blood.


01:00 AM EDT on Saturday, October 6, 2007

FOXBORO — Josh McDaniels caught the coaching bug early.

His father Thom, the current head coach at Massillon (Ohio) Jackson High School, was a longtime head coach at McKinley High in Canton, Ohio, where Josh went to school.

Through his father, the Patriots’ offensive coordinator learned a passion for coaching at a young age.

“I saw all the regards that my father had from it as a coach himself,” McDaniels said. “I went to college, and I kind of had my eye on that the whole time, and I felt like that was the direction I was going to go in.”

“Just using the experience that I saw my father have, it looked like the way I wanted to go with my life, and that’s kind of why I delved into the coaching profession, to start with,” McDaniels said.

McDaniels said he doesn’t know what he would be doing if it weren’t for coaching.

“I majored in math in college for no other reason than I was good in math,” said McDaniels, who went to John Carroll University, where he was a wide receiver for the Blue Streaks. “[Coaching] is what I had my eye on, really, the whole time.”

At first he thought he would be a high school coach like his father. He said he never dreamed he would be coaching in the NFL.

“I wanted to be a graduate assistant and then move on to some level,” said McDaniels, who has been coaching for eight years. “ never dreamed it would be this one.”

Nick Saban gave McDaniels his first coaching job at Michigan State in 1999 as a graduate assistant. He made the leap from the college ranks to the pros in 2001 when he was hired by New England as a personal assistant/coaching assistant. He quickly expanded his role to include film breakdown and scouting preparation for the defensive coaching staff. He became a full-time coaching assistant in February of 2002. His role included breaking down film and scouting chart preparations for the defensive staff. In 2003, he had additional responsibilities working with the defensive backs.

McDaniels was promoted to quarterbacks coach in 2004. He worked with Tom Brady to help him produce the highest passer rating of Brady’s career (92.6) and the second-highest single-season passer rating in team history.

He continued to work with Brady in 2005, and helped him raise his game to another level. Brady led the NFL in 2005 with a career-best 4,110 passing yards, the second-highest total in Patriots history.

Last season, McDaniels was promoted to offensive coordinator. New England head coach Bill Belichick said McDaniels has been successful as an offensive coordinator because of the experience he had breaking down film and scouting players.

“I think every day is a challenge,” McDaniels said about being offensive coordinator. “Every week is different. That’s really the interesting thing about it, and it’s probably the most challenging thing about it. Each week you come in and what you did to beat the team last week or what you did to try to win the game two weeks ago doesn’t necessarily have an application this week because this team or this defense is totally different. You have to evaluate their players every week and try to find the weaknesses and the strengths of your team and use those to the best of your ability.

“The challenging thing about it is you’re never really sure how somebody is going to play you from one week to the next,” McDaniels added. “You prepare and you know what they’ve done, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s what they are going to do against you that day.” McDaniels said sometimes the game plan has to be changed based on how the defense is playing them. It’s because of that that McDaniels has had to learn how to make changes on the fly.

“Based on what the team does, you might have to go with an instinct or a gut feeling and say, ‘What we planned on doing or what we tried to do in that situation might not be the best thing to do,’ and you call something different and you hope your guys are prepared well, which we have been, for the most part, and able to adjust on the run,” McDaniels said.

McDaniels said working with a quarterback as talented as Brady makes his job a lot easier.

“If we have an idea that we feel is going to work and be successful, he understands why pretty fast,” McDaniels said. “I think we’re fortunate to have him be the guy in the huddle and make sure that everybody else is on the same page as we are. He’s usually pretty quick to adjust and adapt to what we’re doing.”

McDaniels said he has only about 10 to 15 seconds to call a play and get the right personnel in the game. He said the players and the rest of the coaching staff are good at adjusting quickly to game situations.

Natedog24
04-28-2009, 01:02 AM
I honestly don't think this staff will last longer then 3 years but I sure as hell hope they prove me wrong. That said I'm extremely curious to see how McD actually preforms as a coach. Roster building is extremely important but how he preforms as a coach will be what makes or breaks is coaching career in the NFL. We haven't seen anything yet...

Hulamau
04-28-2009, 01:05 AM
I honestly don't think this staff will last longer then 3 years but I sure as hell hope they prove me wrong. That said I'm extremely curious to see how McD actually preforms as a coach. Roster building is extremely important but how he preforms as a coach will be what makes or breaks is coaching career in the NFL. We haven't seen anything yet...

Yes, the proof is in the pudding, but what we have seen so far is encouraging ... and hopeful.

Mr Chatterboodamn
04-28-2009, 01:12 AM
the title of this thread is probably the most intellectually honest by the author to date

Popps
04-28-2009, 01:20 AM
the title of this thread is probably the most intellectually honest by the author to date

If you're going to snipe, you need to be more specific. Otherwise, it's just nanny-nanny-boo-boo.

Know what Im sayin'?

But, sure... I appreciate the staff's work and I'm optimistic. Sorry if that sits poorly with you.

Taco John
04-28-2009, 01:27 AM
I'm of the opinion that it's just as premature to call for his firing as it is to start an appreciation thread.

It's getting sillier by the day.

TDmvp
04-28-2009, 01:36 AM
I just about started a "Josh McDaniels for the Ring of Fame" thread, but thought better of it. Why stop at an appreciation thread after his first draft before a player has even laced a cleat? Let's take this all the way baby!

Let's put Josh McDaniels in the Ring of Fame this year!


I overheard talk here locally in Ohio that they are tearing down a wall and adding onto this building for a wing devoted to Josh ...

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/2940217-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame-Canton.jpg

:clown: :P :clown: :P

slyinky
04-28-2009, 01:42 AM
I'm all in. I firmly believe that we will see a successful team sooner than most believe. By successful, I mean a playoff team by year two. While the front seven hasn't been addressed to many peoples liking, you're not going to be able to fix everything in one offseason. I think we will see improvement in some key areas. Namely giveaway/takeaways, field position/special teams and red zone efficiency. This is a team with a lot of holes and I think McDaniels has attacked the areas that he deemed the most feasible in regards to the personnel that was available through free agency and the draft.

If the players that have been acquired so far under McDaniels prove to be successful, that really only leaves the front seven as a big question mark. The offense should be excellent IMO and so should the secondary and special teams. I don't really think we know what we have for a front seven under Mike Nolan's new defensive scheme. Some of the younger players like Larsen, Woodyard, Marcus Thomas or maybe even Crowder may thrive under Nolan thus making it more clear what areas to address along the front seven next offseason.

I remember praying that Bowlen would hire a young coach by the name of Mike Shanahan, thinking that he would lead the Broncos to a championship. I am just as optimistic about McDaniels. Actually, even more so. By year two under McDaniels we are going to see a well rounded, potent club in all phases of the game. Team oriented players who are competitive and tough. Book it.

Oh, and I am never wrong.:thumbsup:

Mr Chatterboodamn
04-28-2009, 02:41 AM
If you're going to snipe, you need to be more specific. Otherwise, it's just nanny-nanny-boo-boo.

Know what Im sayin'?

But, sure... I appreciate the staff's work and I'm optimistic. Sorry if that sits poorly with you.


Oops -- back to your sophistry crutch again!

Dude, it's simple. You are entirely dogmatic in your "optimistic" polemicals for McDaniels. You never articulate your optimism in an optimistic manner, rather you justify your "optimism" by persistently belittling and alienating your fellow fans.

If you want specifics, I am happy to oblige.

In your prolific body of snide posts, you only acknowledge only those facts which support your unshakable hypotheses. You never engage the other side by trying to understand why they are thinking what they are thinking. You instead regurgitate these selected facts through a logic system where the axioms are all lifted from post-September 11 bumper stickers. Remembers your fundamentals; pathos, ethos, logos.

Also, it wasn't really a snipe, just a backhanded yet honest compliment.

You are entitled to your opinion, everyone else is entitled to his/her own as well. By failing to consider or even acknowledge alternative interpretations of this situation, your so-called optimistic conclusions are intellectually dishonest. This is not because you're wrong, this is because you present your opinions as something more than your "official appreciation" of Josh McDumbsofar. Your typical thread titles are merely games you play with truthful sounding statements, but this title I found to be honest.

Your messages themselves are the main source of fuel in great internet fued between the McDanielstown Koolaid Crew and the thumbsucking Fuddy Duddy ShanaCutler felatio posse.

I hope the situation improves for everyone. Part of that must include the reunification of Broncos' nation. In order to achieve that, I think McDaniels should acknowledge our many great traditions and engage those who will never want to abandon our core identity. I honestly hope that I am wrong about where this is headed.

Atwater His Ass
04-28-2009, 02:56 AM
I really like how he's addressed our #1 weakness along the DL...

NYBronco
04-28-2009, 03:06 AM
I'm optimistic but I didn't get my feelings hurt when Shanahan was let go and or when Jay was given a ticket out of town. Like most things in life/business opportunities come about in many different forms and time frames and you make the best of your situations.

The game is a business and I understand how and why the most recent franchise changing events played themselves out (at least with the information I am privy to).

I also know when the games begin there are those that will always criticise the new coach for all that has transpired regardless of the Broncos success.

cutthemdown
04-28-2009, 03:12 AM
I honestly don't think this staff will last longer then 3 years but I sure as hell hope they prove me wrong. That said I'm extremely curious to see how McD actually preforms as a coach. Roster building is extremely important but how he preforms as a coach will be what makes or breaks is coaching career in the NFL. We haven't seen anything yet...

I think once the game starts he will be a great play caller. Man you are going to love him trust me.

bronco610
04-28-2009, 03:25 AM
As usual it seems there is only you are all in or all out when it comes to supporting the new regime. How about the poll for those of us that don't want to jump to conclusions. Something like I am hoping for the best but I will wait until something has actually been acomplished.

BroncoInSkinland
04-28-2009, 04:11 AM
In keeping with the spirit of this thread thanks to McDaniels for getting us a top RB prospect. I can't wait to see what a true 1st round RB working with Turner behind our incredible line looks like. RBBC has been adequate for us and let us address other areas (at least when 7 of them don't get injured in the same season), but this has the potential to provide an offense punch on par with what I believe Cutler/Marshal/Royal were capable of. Great move, and I will save my bitching for other more appropriate threads.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 04:33 AM
[B]-Signed or drafted over 30 players to improve this team, more than 15 of them on defense.)

And how many play on the front seven you've been screaming about for years? Or does that complaint only exist when Mike Shanahan is coaching the team?

footstepsfrom#27
04-28-2009, 05:32 AM
This thread is absurd.

The Joker
04-28-2009, 05:43 AM
We'll see what happens when they take the field in September.

I like some moves they've made, others I am sceptical about.

I expect us to be improved on defense, still not great but much better on 3rd down which will at least help us get off the field now and again. I expect we'll struggle to stop the run again, unfortunately.

Moreno should really upgrade the running game, he and Hillis should be very nice as a tandem.

The key will ultimately be whether either Orton or Simms can actually make some plays in the passing game. They don't have the ceiling Jay would have had, but with the O-Line, receivers and backs we have to work with there's no reason that our starting QB can't put up some pretty nice numbers.

If they can do that, and they really should be able, we'll be a pretty competitive team and have a half chance at making the playoffs. If not, we'll be looking at 6 wins or thereabouts.

cmhargrove
04-28-2009, 05:56 AM
If this thread is to be "pulled up" at a later date, then first - I want to say "hi" to myself in the future. "Hey self, you rock! And, you were probably right about this prediction."

That being said, I believe...

1. We are on the right track. Barring major injuries, we could definitely be the 2010 version of the Miami Dolphins. In all reality, that means I think we could sneak up on people and still be competing for the division in the last 2 games of the season.
Our biggest obstacle is still the Chargers, they have the potential for a great year with Merriman returning.
2. I think we have already dumped most of the "dead weight" of the team, and TC will be intense. Everyone competes, no one is safe, best players stay.
4. I think that at least five players from this draft class will still be on the team in four years. Still playing important roles for the team.
5. I believe that by the end of the year, Knowshon Moreno will be one of the three leading candidates for OROY.
6. I believe we will score more points than we did last year.
7. I don't believe 100% in our QB's but the entire team will be getting better while we figure this out. The run game is more important to me, and we have taken that one head on.
8. I believe Josh McDaniels is righting the ship, and the next three years our record will be better than 50/50 (like the last three years).
9. I miss Shanahan, and I miss Cutler, but I feel like we are getting better as a team.
10. Is that specific enough?

dbfan4life
04-28-2009, 07:55 AM
This thread is absurd.

I agree. I can't seem to rally myself around this guy. I agree that it was time for change and was on board for the most part when Shanahan was let go. I know most of us were screaming for a D-minded coach and Pat hires a young O-minded coach. Then I thought, well, if this guy can surround him with a decent staff. I think he's done a knockout job with assembling his staff. Then FA started. Brian Dawkins is the only key free agent I think will contribute. Our weakness was D-line and linebacker - has that even been looked at this offseason? The Cutler fiasco has been hashed and re-hashed but IMO, McDaniels did more than his share to mishandle the situation. Then the draft. I liked the Moreno pick and the Ayers pick. Trading a 1st rounder for 2nd round talent was a head scratcher. I can see that we needed to address secondary with Champ really the only back there worth a darn, but to not address 2 most glaring needs anywhere in the draft just doesn't make sense.

I'm not a negative nelly by any means but I just can't find a single reason for optimism heading into next season. Broncos will always be my team and I'll have that passion but for the first time in a long time, I have zero expectations for the team.

Taco John
04-28-2009, 08:01 AM
I wonder if we should induct Josh into the Ring of Fame this August to show our appreciation...

The Joker
04-28-2009, 08:03 AM
I wonder if we should induct Josh into the Ring of Fame this August to show our appreciation...

We should retire the Head Coach position, in all honesty.

DrFate
04-28-2009, 08:07 AM
What a joke. I don't understand how the guy even walks around Dove Valley with all these Maners hanging onto his balls.

Kaylore
04-28-2009, 08:11 AM
I'm of the opinion that it's just as premature to call for his firing as it is to start an appreciation thread.

It's getting sillier by the day.

This is where I'm at. He's done some things I disagree with and he's done some things I really like. I will say I like more than I don't, but that's just me and until the games are played it's all nonsense really. We'll have to see.

Gcver2ver3
04-28-2009, 08:12 AM
great thread Popps...

i agree with everything you said...

don't pay attention to the nay-sayers...this is the positive energy this board needs...

sadly it won't help, but a good thread nonetheless...

TotallyScrewed
04-28-2009, 08:14 AM
You can all pull this thread up and blast me with it in a couple of years if things go south, but I believe he and the staff are making great strides to improve this team.

Props to him for being a guy who can go out and do what he needs to do. Proper decisions are not always popular ones, and championships aren't won without a few feelings getting hurt along the way.

This isn't about blindly supporting the new staff, but about giving them a little leeway to put their plan into motion, which I can see taking shape. Since the off-season began, the new staff has...

-Signed or drafted over 30 players to improve this team, more than 15 of them on defense.)
-Signed an all-world S and team leader for the defense.
-Brought in a DC with a history as a head coach and a successful coordinator.
-Landed the best RB in college football.
-Landed the best DE/OLB prospect in college football.
-Prioritized a team philosophy over individual, self-serving attitudes.
-Prioritized character players.
-Not only made a verbal commitment to improving special teams, but went out and acquired players to achieve those improvements.
-Conducted a highly targeted draft, adding extra picks now, to develop better players, sooner.
-Rid the defense of the dead weight that had no business of being out on the field.
-Created an atmosphere where players know they're going to compete for a position, no mater what their name is.
-Generated a genuine excitement in the players that is almost tangible and clearly evident when listening to young players like Dumervil and Marshall.

It's been a bumpy ride, but this staff has a highly focused plan and as a Broncos fan, I'm 100% behind them. McDaniels came from a culture of winning and has a track record as a coordinator that speaks for itself, much like our last great head coach.

Flame away, but I'm optimistic.

"...(When) I say we're going to change, I don't think anybody knows what that means. Including some of our players. Yet, they're going to find out. Then once they see us be successful from one week to the next, they're going to say, 'This works.' "

-Broncos Coach, Josh McDaniels

Group hug!!!

Mile High Mojoe
04-28-2009, 08:14 AM
I overheard talk here locally in Ohio that they are tearing down a wall and adding onto this building for a wing devoted to Josh ...

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/2940217-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame-Canton.jpg

:clown: :P :clown: :P:~ohyah!:

Everybody keeps saying McD did a good job with the draft, how so? He had 10 opportunities to draft players for the weakest part of the team, the front 7 and he took one. Every year teams sign the unwanted has been free agents. Some stick some donít itís what happens between the lines thatíll eventually prove if McD deserves canonization. If this is another speculation thread about the future hereís mine.

Moreno may be a home run but somebody still has to play defense and stop the other team. I understand the Broncos wonít be a good team for a while but I also have a guarded optimism. I like any fan want him to succeed but McD hasnít lost his virginity yet. Once it gets popped what will he do? Will the team still think heís the next genius if they come out of the gate 0-4? He doesnít have 3 years to turn the Broncos into Cinderella he probably has 2. If the Broncos are playing bad football after the second half of next year heís gone and should be.

Why isnít there more talk of Nolanís role in the success or failure of the Broncos? All the discussion has been about McD, when Nolan has far bigger fish to fry and his coaching ability will be what makes or breaks McD and the Broncos as a team the next 2 years.

Taco John
04-28-2009, 08:15 AM
This is where I'm at. He's done some things I disagree with and he's done some things I really like. I will say I like more than I don't, but that's just me and until the games are played it's all nonsense really. We'll have to see.

I just hope Nolan can do more with this defensive front 7 than Slowick was able to, considering it's about the same group of guys.

colonelbeef
04-28-2009, 08:16 AM
Oops -- back to your sophistry crutch again!

Dude, it's simple. You are entirely dogmatic in your "optimistic" polemicals for McDaniels. You never articulate your optimism in an optimistic manner, rather you justify your "optimism" by persistently belittling and alienating your fellow fans.

If you want specifics, I am happy to oblige.

In your prolific body of snide posts, you only acknowledge only those facts which support your unshakable hypotheses. You never engage the other side by trying to understand why they are thinking what they are thinking. You instead regurgitate these selected facts through a logic system where the axioms are all lifted from post-September 11 bumper stickers. Remembers your fundamentals; pathos, ethos, logos.

Also, it wasn't really a snipe, just a backhanded yet honest compliment.

You are entitled to your opinion, everyone else is entitled to his/her own as well. By failing to consider or even acknowledge alternative interpretations of this situation, your so-called optimistic conclusions are intellectually dishonest. This is not because you're wrong, this is because you present your opinions as something more than your "official appreciation" of Josh McDumbsofar. Your typical thread titles are merely games you play with truthful sounding statements, but this title I found to be honest.

Your messages themselves are the main source of fuel in great internet fued between the McDanielstown Koolaid Crew and the thumbsucking Fuddy Duddy ShanaCutler felatio posse.

I hope the situation improves for everyone. Part of that must include the reunification of Broncos' nation. In order to achieve that, I think McDaniels should acknowledge our many great traditions and engage those who will never want to abandon our core identity. I honestly hope that I am wrong about where this is headed.

Post of the year. Popps will have a difficult time responding with his arms and legs nailed so tightly to the wall.

Kaylore
04-28-2009, 08:41 AM
I just hope Nolan can do more with this defensive front 7 than Slowick was able to, considering it's about the same group of guys.

Slowik couldn't hold Nolan's jock. I'm actually more excited about the other position coaches like Donatell and Marindale. I don't get Smith over Brace, but even if we took Brace it would have been three years before we saw any meaningful results, so practically speaking there would have been no difference with our front seven this year even if we did get someone. I expect they'll run the 4-3 when they have to and then next year with more free agents and another draft you'll see us make a finalized move to the 3-4. We'll have to wait and see.

Mile High Mojoe
04-28-2009, 08:55 AM
Slowik couldn't hold Nolan's jock. I'm actually more excited about the other position coaches like Donatell and Marindale. I don't get Smith over Brace, but even if we took Brace it would have been three years before we saw any meaningful results, so practically speaking there would have been no difference with our front seven this year even if we did get someone. I expect they'll run the 4-3 when they have to and then next year with more free agents and another draft you'll see us make a finalized move to the 3-4. We'll have to wait and see.Wow, you sure give a lot of kudos to Nolan, he ran the 9ers into the ground with a better set of players on D than the Broncos have and he failed, good position coaches or not he's the boss and the buck will stop with him.

Kaylore
04-28-2009, 08:57 AM
Wow, you sure give a lot of kudos to Nolan, he ran the 9ers into the ground with a better set of players on D than the Broncos have and he failed, good position coaches or not he's the boss and the buck will stop with him.

Nolan is a good coordinator and a below average head coach. He's like Wade Phillips or Norv Turnver. As a coordinator his defenses always play well and he puts a premium on toughness and mental discipline which is what this team needs.

Liebs
04-28-2009, 08:58 AM
seems like we could have done nearly all that you mentioned AND kept our probowl QB, right?

colonelbeef
04-28-2009, 08:59 AM
seems like we could have done nearly all that you mentioned AND kept our probowl QB, right?

of course.

The Joker
04-28-2009, 09:02 AM
He wanted to leave though, as he made perfectly clear.

We'd have had to do without one of Ayers or Moreno though, and would have had no first round pick next year had we kept Cutler.

doonwise
04-28-2009, 09:03 AM
I'm all in -- this team is going places and, while there will be mistakes along the way, I really like this new direction.

SureShot
04-28-2009, 09:04 AM
And how many play on the front seven you've been screaming about for years? Or does that complaint only exist when Mike Shanahan is coaching the team?

I thought for sure Popps would be screaming for this as well, but I guess he thinks it would weaken his McDaniels propaganda machine.

Mile High Mojoe
04-28-2009, 09:10 AM
Nolan is a good coordinator and a below average head coach. He's like Wade Phillips or Norv Turnver. As a coordinator his defenses always play well and he puts a premium on toughness and mental discipline which is what this team needs.It was easy for him to a put a premium and toughness and mental discipline when he was with a team like the Ravens, the players on that team where born with it. The 9ers had several years where he got to draft quality defensive players and the end result was he got fired. Not really a good statement on his ability to coach a Broncos D that has neither talent nor toughness.

Popps
04-28-2009, 09:20 AM
You never articulate your optimism in an optimistic manner.

See, that's what's commonly known as "a flat out lie."

You took a lot of time with that flowery post, only to have the thesis be a complete lie. You're either not paying attention, or your thesaurus is blocking your view of the screen.


In your prolific body of snide posts, you only acknowledge only those facts which support your unshakable hypotheses. You never engage the other side by trying to understand why they are thinking what they are thinking. .

Again, that's either very misguided, or a lie. You need to read more.... or or read more effectively.

I rated our draft a B-. Is B- the new A+? Did I miss something?

As for recognizing the points of those who oppose me, I'll willingly do it if it's being done rationally or reasonably. Check out my response to Rohirrim's complaint that we didn't draft more LBs. I understood his point, didn't completely agree, but credited him because he's a bright poster and makes his cases without calling the coach an "idiot."

So, again... you're incorrect. Sounds to me like maybe you should stick to football and quit going after people personally you can follow the action a little more accurately.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 09:23 AM
Popps, I think you that you think you're someone different than you are here. That post really perfectly described you... I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find someone aside from you that doesn't think it fits to a T.

Popps
04-28-2009, 09:25 AM
And how many play on the front seven you've been screaming about for years? Or does that complaint only exist when Mike Shanahan is coaching the team?

Mike Shanahan went his entire career in Denver without taking the highest projected DE in the draft.

McDaniels managed to do it in his first draft.


We also signed two other FA's and several draft picks who may contribute on the line. How about we watch them play once before we start calling for heads?

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 09:30 AM
Mike Shanahan went his entire career in Denver without taking the highest projected DE in the draft.

McDaniels managed to do it in his first draft.


We also signed two other FA's and several draft picks who may contribute on the line. How about we watch them play once before we start calling for heads?

He also managed to get one of the top defensive linemen for a half a decade in Pryce. So skew facts all you want, you've changed your tune dramatically and for no reason and it's just sad.

Popps
04-28-2009, 09:35 AM
This is where I'm at. He's done some things I disagree with and he's done some things I really like. I will say I like more than I don't, but that's just me and until the games are played it's all nonsense really. We'll have to see.

True, we've got no results outside of gauging the moves he's made and trying to pick up a read on where we're going.

It was more of a sentiment thread, than an "I know he's a hall of fame coach" thread. The question being, are people buying in and feeling like good things are coming for the franchise?

I'm actually surprised how upbeat the sentiment is, but glad to see optimism starting to take over.

Of course, the negative/opposed are always twice as vocal, but they're in the minority. Looks like people are starting to get excited about the direction of this franchise.

Not a bad thing!

colonelbeef
04-28-2009, 09:36 AM
He also managed to get one of the top defensive linemen for a half a decade in Pryce. So skew facts all you want, you've changed your tune dramatically and for no reason and it's just sad.

Shanahan never had high enough draft picks, he was a consistent winner picking in the bottom half of the draft.

Popps
04-28-2009, 09:39 AM
He also managed to get one of the top defensive linemen for a half a decade in Pryce. So skew facts all you want, you've changed your tune dramatically and for no reason and it's just sad.

Pryce was a great pick in 1998. I've mentioned him many, many times. I don't recall him being the top prospect coming out, though he was a fantastic pick.

Nothing has changed, outside of our scheme, which will now generate pass-rush from the OLBs. So, with the addition of the best DE prospect in the draft, I'll have to see what our front seven can do before I can make a specific criticism.

However, I would have liked to have seen one more DL pick on day one. I made that abundantly clear. But, I'm very happy with the one we got.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 09:46 AM
Pryce was a great pick in 1998. I've mentioned him many, many times. I don't recall him being the top prospect coming out, though he was a fantastic pick.

Nothing has changed, outside of our scheme, which will now generate pass-rush from the OLBs. So, with the addition of the best DE prospect in the draft, I'll have to see what our front seven can do before I can make a specific criticism.

However, I would have liked to have seen one more DL pick on day one. I made that abundantly clear. But, I'm very happy with the one we got.

Is that before our after we traded a nut to get back into the 2nd round... twice?

Did you want 2/3 picks?

Or 2/5?

Popps
04-28-2009, 09:46 AM
I wonder if we should induct Josh into the Ring of Fame this August to show our appreciation...

Meh.

It's just about sentiment, Taco. No one is jumping to those conclusions. Why skew the topic? He's been referred to as an "idiot" by a good portion of people here, and there are plenty of threads for that.

Why the need to skew this into something it's not?

Looks like people are excited.

Sorry!

:welcome:

Popps
04-28-2009, 09:48 AM
Is that before our after we traded a nut to get back into the 2nd round... twice?

Did you want 2/3 picks?

Or 2/5?

I would have liked to see us go after someone like Brace in the 2nd. But, we'll see how he pans out. He fell pretty far. Maybe I'll still wish we would have taken him by next season.

I also was resigned to taking CB early. I knew it was coming. We had jack-****. I was just glad it wasn't in the first round.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 09:50 AM
I would have liked to see us go after someone like Brace in the 2nd. But, we'll see how he pans out. He fell pretty far. Maybe I'll still wish we would have taken him by next season.

I also was resigned to taking CB early. I knew it was coming. We had jack-****. I was just glad it wasn't in the first round.

Brace fell in what plane of reality? He went early in the second round...

I can come to terms with taking a CB early, but if that's the case, and you're dead set on doing it, grab Malcom ****ing Jenkins at 12, and grab a back you like in the second.

Kaylore
04-28-2009, 10:02 AM
Shanahan never had high enough draft picks, he was a consistent winner picking in the bottom half of the draft.

That's a bunch of crap. Building a defense isn't about having high draft picks. It's about finding the right players. There are tons of good defenders on good defensive teams that aren't taken in the top 15 of the draft every year. You just need to understand how to evaluate defensive talent and develop it and that is something that more often than not Shanahan wasn't very good at.

BroncoInSkinland
04-28-2009, 10:03 AM
Pryce was a great pick in 1998. I've mentioned him many, many times. I don't recall him being the top prospect coming out, though he was a fantastic pick.

Nothing has changed, outside of our scheme, which will now generate pass-rush from the OLBs. So, with the addition of the best DE prospect in the draft, I'll have to see what our front seven can do before I can make a specific criticism.

However, I would have liked to have seen one more DL pick on day one. I made that abundantly clear. But, I'm very happy with the one we got.

I would have liked one more on day one, and at least one preferably two on day two. It's almost criminal that we will now be wasting not only Champs talents, but Dawkins as well with no pass rush again. Maybe you are right and one piece, a scheme overhaul and the proper coaching will produce pressure, but I highly doubt it.

~Crash~
04-28-2009, 10:07 AM
I would vote but why popps never votes on any polls so ....

SportinOne
04-28-2009, 10:08 AM
here goes popps again.. yawn..

Northman
04-28-2009, 10:11 AM
Not enough options.

Im going with the "wait and see" approach. I dont agree with some of the choices in the second round as far as positions but he says we can compete this year so im expecting better than 8-8 this year. Just win.

labronx
04-28-2009, 10:11 AM
"...(When) I say we're going to change, I don't think anybody knows what that means. Including some of our players. Yet, they're going to find out. Then once they see us be successful from one week to the next, they're going to say, 'This works.' "

-Broncos Coach, Josh McDaniels

Nice Quote

Popps
04-28-2009, 10:13 AM
Brace fell in what plane of reality? He went early in the second round...

I can come to terms with taking a CB early, but if that's the case, and you're dead set on doing it, grab Malcom ****ing Jenkins at 12, and grab a back you like in the second.

By fell, I mean... any player thought to be a sure-fire impact guy at interior DL goes in the top 5 picks overall.

Brace made it into the second, so despite me liking him on paper, there are clearly questions.

All three of the Patriots starting DL were mid to early first round picks, if I'm not mistaken.

Popps
04-28-2009, 10:14 AM
I would vote but why popps never votes on any polls so ....

Are you kidding? I voted on 200 polls last month, and those were just Baja's!

:)

bowtown
04-28-2009, 10:17 AM
I'm still skeptical but I'm beginning to be swayed... not by you though Popps, so don't get a big head.

vancejohnson82
04-28-2009, 10:29 AM
my favorite thread on the front page.....

I agree with the B- assessment of the draft, but as far as an approach goes and the types of guys we are bringing in, I give it an A

SJ Bronco
04-28-2009, 10:29 AM
I'm toting the party line, but I still don't think highly of Mcdaniels, and if he fails after 3 years, he should be replaced. If he succeeds, that good for us.

bombay
04-28-2009, 10:35 AM
Jury's out on McDaniels.

The Broncos haven't played a game under his tutelege, and not one player that he signed or drafted has seen the field.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 10:46 AM
By fell, I mean... any player thought to be a sure-fire impact guy at interior DL goes in the top 5 picks overall.

Brace made it into the second, so despite me liking him on paper, there are clearly questions.

All three of the Patriots starting DL were mid to early first round picks, if I'm not mistaken.

Can you name one actual impact guy in the interior DL that went top 5 overall?

~Crash~
04-28-2009, 10:47 AM
I think people will be surprised by how competitive we are. Our record may not show it, but this team has some talent... and I guarantee you there's going to be a different attitude out there on Sundays.

oh well that great draft pick will make up for it next year .oops oh well:wave:

Popps
04-28-2009, 10:52 AM
my favorite thread on the front page.....

I agree with the B- assessment of the draft, but as far as an approach goes and the types of guys we are bringing in, I give it an A

Exactly. People are mistaking this for a "crown his ass" thread.

It's just more of a sentiment thread. There's plenty of bashing going around, and the point here is, there's nothing wrong with getting behind the staff and appreciating the moves being made to make this franchise great again.

I can't wait for camp, etc. Hearing Dumervil's excitement got me pretty pumped up.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 10:53 AM
Just for kicks:

Top 3-4 NTs in the NFL:

Name - Round - Pick

Casey Hampton - 1st-19th

Kelly Gregg - 6th round!

Kris Jenkins - 2nd-44th

Vince Wilfork - 1st-21st

Jamal Williams - Supplemental 2nd!

Shaun Rodgers - 2nd-61st

------------

What's important, Popps, is to realize that coming out of college, most of these guys don't have much experience two gapping, and if they do, it's rarely against great competition. The important part is evaluating their measurables, skill set, and work ethic, and they taking it upon your staff to develop the talent.

colonelbeef
04-28-2009, 11:04 AM
That's a bunch of crap. Building a defense isn't about having high draft picks. It's about finding the right players. There are tons of good defenders on good defensive teams that aren't taken in the top 15 of the draft every year. You just need to understand how to evaluate defensive talent and develop it and that is something that more often than not Shanahan wasn't very good at.

The response was to Popps saying Shanahan never managed to take the top rated DE prospect in a draft.

The reason for this is that the top rated DE will always be gone by the time a team like the Broncos picks, as they usually are picking in the 2nd half of the draft year in and year out, and beyond that, in the bottom 3rd.

vancejohnson82
04-28-2009, 11:06 AM
Exactly. People are mistaking this for a "crown his ass" thread.

It's just more of a sentiment thread. There's plenty of bashing going around, and the point here is, there's nothing wrong with getting behind the staff and appreciating the moves being made to make this franchise great again.

I can't wait for camp, etc. Hearing Dumervil's excitement got me pretty pumped up.

I catch the drift of what you are trying to put out there Popps....

I just like the guys that will be playing in orange and blue this year...theres going to be no excuses, no dancing around on defense after giving up first downs, no heads down on the sidelines, no games where we give up 5 straight TDs on defense.....guys like Dawkins, Orton and Nolan won't let that happen

say what you want about the "talent" level on our team coming into camp is one thing, but talking about attitude and intensity is another.....i think we will see a much harder team this year in Denver and thats what I like

as far as record predictions, or calling the draft a boom or bust, I'll wait....but I can't say anything negative about guys like Smith, Moreno or Ayers coming inot the locker room because I think they all have a certain attitude about them...its not a fake, conceited "swagger" but rather a confident, unassuming playmakers' attitude

kamakazi_kal
04-28-2009, 11:06 AM
Shanahan never had high enough draft picks, he was a consistent winner picking in the bottom half of the draft.

:rofl:

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 11:11 AM
I definitely "appreciate" the fact that Josh hasn't done anything yet, that we traded away what might be a Top 10 pick because he failed to get a standard stipulation, and that Jay Cutler and Jim Goodman - two of the three most effective people in the organization (Champ) - are gone, and both their departures have Josh's fingerprints on them.

The only reasonable stance is skepticism ...

This kid has written a lot of big checks.

vancejohnson82
04-28-2009, 11:13 AM
I definitely "appreciate" the fact that Josh hasn't done anything yet, that we traded away what might be a Top 10 pick because he failed to get a standard stipulation, and that Jay Cutler and Jim Goodman - two of the three most effective people in the organization (Champ) - are gone, and both their departures have Josh's fingerprints on them.

The only reasonable stance is skepticism ...

This kid has written a lot of big checks.


how could you put Cutler as one of the three most effective people in the organization?? wasn't it Shanahan who brought him in? wasn't it Cutler who failed to meet expectations leading to Shanahan's firing? I agree with the Goodman call, but we don't know how that went down

skepticism is fine, I guess....but as a fan we are supposed to be optimistic by nature

kamakazi_kal
04-28-2009, 11:17 AM
Here's to hoping that McD is a good coach ........ I know I've hated on the guy and I hope I'm wrong. I'll eat a ton of crow If we go 11-5 like some people think we will.

Allot of questionable moves from a guy who in my opinion got a HC job by riding Bellicheats tailcoat. I just don't like what I view as on the job learning with my team by a first time HC and GM.

kamakazi_kal
04-28-2009, 11:20 AM
how could you put Cutler as one of the three most effective people in the organization?? wasn't it Shanahan who brought him in? wasn't it Cutler who failed to meet expectations leading to Shanahan's firing?

I like how it's cutlers fault for the team collapse but everyone thinks orton has sunshine flowing out his ass cause the rest of his team was good enough to help him every now and then.

From now on there be nobody to blame but the FO.

dbfan4life
04-28-2009, 11:24 AM
how could you put Cutler as one of the three most effective people in the organization?? wasn't it Shanahan who brought him in? wasn't it Cutler who failed to meet expectations leading to Shanahan's firing? I agree with the Goodman call, but we don't know how that went down

skepticism is fine, I guess....but as a fan we are supposed to be optimistic by nature

Optimism is fine when warranted. Fans have just as much right to shake their heads and say things like WTF when their teams takes the two steps back one forward approach.

Inkana7
04-28-2009, 11:29 AM
I like how it's cutlers fault for the team collapse but everyone thinks orton has sunshine flowing out his ass cause the rest of his team was good enough to help him every now and then.

From now on there be nobody to blame but the FO.

How come it's never Cutler's fault for a loss?

vancejohnson82
04-28-2009, 11:34 AM
I like how it's cutlers fault for the team collapse but everyone thinks orton has sunshine flowing out his ass cause the rest of his team was good enough to help him every now and then.

From now on there be nobody to blame but the FO.

no, i never blamed Cutler for the losses

what im not ready to admit was that he was one of the 3 most effective personalities on the team...

but we can pick and choose quotes to supplement arguments if you would like

kamakazi_kal
04-28-2009, 11:34 AM
How come it's never Cutler's fault for a loss?

He had a part in every loss. Just saying when it helps the argument it seems to always be "the players" fault.

To say every loss was his fault alone and for example ..... every bears win was ortons .... just sayin.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 11:36 AM
how could you put Cutler as one of the three most effective people in the organization?? wasn't it Shanahan who brought him in? wasn't it Cutler who failed to meet expectations leading to Shanahan's firing? I agree with the Goodman call, but we don't know how that went down

skepticism is fine, I guess....but as a fan we are supposed to be optimistic by nature

No...

vancejohnson82
04-28-2009, 11:37 AM
He had a part in every loss. Just saying when it helps the argument it seems to always be "the players" fault.

To say every loss was his fault alone and for example ..... every bears win was ortons .... just sayin.

no, you're missing the point of my argument here...

soemone above said CUtler, Champ and Goodman were the top three effective personalities on the team...

if those are our top 3 and we keep going 8-8, maybe they aren't THAT effective after all...

thats all im saying

azbroncfan
04-28-2009, 11:45 AM
You can all pull this thread up and blast me with it in a couple of years if things go south, but I believe he and the staff are making great strides to improve this team.

Props to him for being a guy who can go out and do what he needs to do. Proper decisions are not always popular ones, and championships aren't won without a few feelings getting hurt along the way.

This isn't about blindly supporting the new staff, but about giving them a little leeway to put their plan into motion, which I can see taking shape. Since the off-season began, the new staff has...

-Signed or drafted over 30 players to improve this team, more than 15 of them on defense.)
-Signed an all-world S and team leader for the defense.
-Brought in a DC with a history as a head coach and a successful coordinator.
-Landed the best RB in college football.
-Landed the best DE/OLB prospect in college football.
-Prioritized a team philosophy over individual, self-serving attitudes.
-Prioritized character players.
-Not only made a verbal commitment to improving special teams, but went out and acquired players to achieve those improvements.
-Conducted a highly targeted draft, adding extra picks now, to develop better players, sooner.
-Rid the defense of the dead weight that had no business of being out on the field.
-Created an atmosphere where players know they're going to compete for a position, no mater what their name is.
-Generated a genuine excitement in the players that is almost tangible and clearly evident when listening to young players like Dumervil and Marshall.

It's been a bumpy ride, but this staff has a highly focused plan and as a Broncos fan, I'm 100% behind them. McDaniels came from a culture of winning and has a track record as a coordinator that speaks for itself, much like our last great head coach.

Flame away, but I'm optimistic.

"...(When) I say we're going to change, I don't think anybody knows what that means. Including some of our players. Yet, they're going to find out. Then once they see us be successful from one week to the next, they're going to say, 'This works.' "

-Broncos Coach, Josh McDaniels


Although I agree there has to be at least 10 guys on this site that are better football minds, more football knowledge and could run the team better than Pat and McD.::)

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 11:45 AM
skepticism is fine, I guess....but as a fan we are supposed to be optimistic by nature

That is a solid-gold winning line right there, rep. That line explains lots of the Josh-love here, and I have no problem with that. The very definition of "fan" includes unreserved optimism and positivity, even in the face of questionable circumstances and daunting odds.

If that weren't the case, the Lions wouldn't sell any tickets at all .....

Popps
04-28-2009, 11:48 AM
The response was to Popps saying Shanahan never managed to take the top rated DE prospect in a draft.rd.

Price wasn't the "top rated DE prospect" in the draft.

He was a great selection. Too bad we could have made more like that.

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 11:49 AM
soemone above said CUtler, Champ and Goodman were the top three effective personalities on the team...

if those are our top 3 and we keep going 8-8, maybe they aren't THAT effective after all...

I said that, and I stand by it.

Maybe soon add Clady to that list, even B-Marsh if he could stay outta trouble.

But your logic is flawed ... even the 0-16 Lions have "three most effective guys" in their organization.

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 11:50 AM
Price wasn't the "top rated DE prospect" in the draft.

He was a great selection. Too bad we could have made more like that.

He was a top-rated DT in the draft, though ... remember he was a DT.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:01 PM
That is a solid-gold winning line right there, rep. That line explains lots of the Josh-love here, and I have no problem with that. The very definition of "fan" includes unreserved optimism and positivity, even in the face of questionable circumstances and daunting odds.

If that weren't the case, the Lions wouldn't sell any tickets at all .....


Plus, to me, people should be able to revere a guy like Shanahan, but also understand that sometimes things need to change.

I just can't understand anyone not being excited, at this point. That doesn't mean without reservations, but I really like what this staff is doing, and they're not anywhere near done yet.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:02 PM
He was a top-rated DT in the draft, though ... remember he was a DT.

Of course, and I think he was a much better DT than a DE. I hated moving him outside.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 12:03 PM
Plus, to me, people should be able to revere a guy like Shanahan, but also understand that sometimes things need to change.

I just can't understand anyone not being excited, at this point. That doesn't mean without reservations, but I really like what this staff is doing, and they're not anywhere near done yet.

You just can't be serious?!

If this were still Shanahan, you'd be KILLING this draft and every move so far this off-season.

Taco John
04-28-2009, 12:12 PM
Plus, to me, people should be able to revere a guy like Shanahan, but also understand that sometimes things need to change.

I just can't understand anyone not being excited, at this point. That doesn't mean without reservations, but I really like what this staff is doing, and they're not anywhere near done yet.


What I can't understand is why you'd turn your back on ten years worth of yammering about how it all starts up front on defense, and then go all "appreciation thread" on a guy who says "It all starts with offense first, defensive secondary second, and defensive line last." This, I think, is why people are criticizing your posts on the matter. Maybe you don't see it, but it doesn't come across like you're trying to pump up the fan base. It comes across like you're trying to push an agenda - to drive a deeper wedge between people who are skeptical and people who are not.

I think it would help if you could explain what it is that is causing you to turn your back on almost ten years of what you called Football 101, and go for an approach that runs counter to everything you've been preaching here for so long.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:12 PM
You just can't be serious?!

If this were still Shanahan, you'd be KILLING this draft and every move so far this off-season.

Again, if Shanahan would have landed the top ranked DE prospect in the entire draft, I would have not been "killing" it.

That said, I would have had reservations about the 2nd round... admittedly.

The problem is, Shanahan's track record with regards to DBs in the draft hasn't been great, nor has is track record with DL.

So, I freely admit... McDaniels is getting some benefit of the doubt, at this point. If he shows a pattern of striking out with defensive picks, I think people will become leery of him, as well.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 12:20 PM
Again, if Shanahan would have landed the top ranked DE prospect in the entire draft, I would have not been "killing" it.

That said, I would have had reservations about the 2nd round... admittedly.

The problem is, Shanahan's track record with regards to DBs in the draft hasn't been great, nor has is track record with DL.

So, I freely admit... McDaniels is getting some benefit of the doubt, at this point. If he shows a pattern of striking out with defensive picks, I think people will become leery of him, as well.

That's absurd. If that's how you want to spin your sudden "change of heart" then so be it, but you clearly would've been all over the front page of the board with: "Well, we ignored the DL again folks!" and then spent the entire season claiming Shanahan was stupid for ignoring it and that he needs to go.

You like McDaniels. That's great. But seriously, you're being ridiculously two faced about this entire thing.

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 12:25 PM
Of course, and I think he was a much better DT than a DE. I hated moving him outside.

We shouldda kept Reggie Heyward of course ....

Remember Pryce said about that move, "it feels like I've been let out of prison."

colonelbeef
04-28-2009, 12:34 PM
That's absurd. If that's how you want to spin your sudden "change of heart" then so be it, but you clearly would've been all over the front page of the board with: "Well, we ignored the DL again folks!" and then spent the entire season claiming Shanahan was stupid for ignoring it and that he needs to go.

You like McDaniels. That's great. But seriously, you're being ridiculously two faced about this entire thing.

Precisely. Conveniently avoiding the topic at hand.

Lets put it this way. If Shanahan had gotten rid of Cutler this year, I would have been pissed, just as I am pissed that McDaniels made that mistake. It's called being consistent.

Now, if Shanahan had pulled this same draft, Popps would be livid. The only reason he is pretending to be psyched about how everything played out is because he is in love with McDaniels. Popps and his ilk are being inconsistent.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:40 PM
What I can't understand is why you'd turn your back on ten years worth of yammering about how it all starts up front on defense, and then go all "appreciation thread" .

Again, we have 3 DL spots to fill. We signed several players and drafted the best DE in the draft. What part of that should I be upset with?

We're running a totally different defense with a different DC and different personnel. Pass rush is no longer going to be dependent on DE, but the OLB spots. (Mostly.) We've moved Elvis into a position that should be much more natural for him, and just selected a hybrid DE/OLB that looks to have some nice speed and closing ability.

We also did some work to shore up the offensive line.

It does start up front, and no one has "turned their back" on anything. (Such a dramatic boy!)

So, I believe we've made great strides to improve this team, and we're certainly not done yet. If the defense continues to be a black-hole in the front seven next season, you'll hear me complaining about it next off-season. But, for now... I think we're doing some things right, including getting serious about a DE prospect in the first round.

You don't have to be optimistic, Taco. It's your right to stay pouty about things that already happened. But, just don't ask the rest of us to join you.

Kaylore
04-28-2009, 12:45 PM
I do think Popps raises a good point and about the fact that Shanahan's track record with draft picks. A lot of people would have been throwing food at their TV's if this was the same draft under Shanahan (though a lot of it was thoroughly un-Shanahan) because of the track record and lack of faith in his ability evaluate and select defensive players.

McDaniels has no track record one way or the other. Everyone can whine and piss moan, or cheer and clap their hands about this draft but we really have absolutely no idea how he did. We haven't played a game, so we don't even know what the team really needs. Frankly neither does McDaniels. I don't say that to dog him, but he hasn't seen his own team play in pads yet under the new scheme. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and with no trends to supplement it, we're all just guessing really.

We just don't know. McDaniels talks a good game and I like all the guys he brought in. There's other things I don't like, but really I want to see who these guys are before I think I can form an opinion on what we do and don't need and what we should and should not have done.

The hysteria for one way or the other is weighted heavily on the side of people who have denounced the team as losers for the next two years and I think that says something right there.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:50 PM
That's absurd. If that's how you want to spin your sudden "change of heart" then so be it

It's not a change of heart. I explained it very clearly. I like some of what we've done in the front seven, and we took the best DE prospect in the draft.
I'm sorry I can't make you understand this in any simpler terms.

As I said, enjoy the pouting. I'm not going to stop you.

Popps
04-28-2009, 12:52 PM
I do think Popps raises a good point and about the fact that Shanahan's track record with draft picks. A lot of people would have been throwing food at their TV's if this was the same draft under Shanahan (though a lot of it was thoroughly un-Shanahan) because of the track record and lack of faith in his ability evaluate and select defensive players.

McDaniels has no track record one way or the other. Everyone can whine and piss moan, or cheer and clap their hands about this draft but we really have absolutely no idea how he did. We haven't played a game, so we don't even know what the team really needs. Frankly neither does McDaniels. I don't say that to dog him, but he hasn't seen his own team play in pads yet under the new scheme. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and with no trends to supplement it, we're all just guessing really.

We just don't know. McDaniels talks a good game and I like all the guys he brought in. There's other things I don't like, but really I want to see who these guys are before I think I can form an opinion on what we do and don't need and what we should and should not have done.

The hysteria for one way or the other is weighted heavily on the side of people who have denounced the team as losers for the next two years and I think that says something right there.


Exactly. Again, I moaned about Royal, and he turned out a stud.

Shanahan had developed a very poor track record in the draft and FA over the last decade.

McDaniels comes in with a clean slate, and many of us like the direction.

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Again, we have 3 DL spots to fill. We signed several players and drafted the best DE in the draft. What part of that should I be upset with?

Wait, be honest - you were pimping this draft before the CFAs were signed.

And as far as "best DE," no ... Ayers is a SOLB, it's been announced.

So we drafted ZERO defensive linemen.

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 01:01 PM
McDaniels has no track record one way or the other.

And therein lies the problem. We turned over the personnel decisions to the kid. We had Jim Goodman, and somehow ... somehow ... he was canned after Bowlen said we were all set to go in the FO.

I tell you one thing for sure - If Goodman was in the big chair this weekend, we'd have stipulated the Seahawks get the lower of the two.

Rookie mistake, no doubt.

Popps
04-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Wait, be honest - you were pimping this draft before the CFAs were signed.

And as far as "best DE," no ... Ayers is a SOLB, it's been announced.

So we drafted ZERO defensive linemen.

He played both in college, and projects to be playing both for us, which is exciting when he's considered to be potentially the best defender in the 2009 draft.

Again, we've got 3 positions on the DL to fill, and more emphasis is going to be on the OLB spots.

I think the scheme change alone will make Dumervil much more effective.

Well, I gave the draft a B-. Not exactly pimping it. Though, you're right, I did like the street FA pick-ups quite a bit.

Popps
04-28-2009, 01:10 PM
I just hope Nolan can do more with this defensive front 7 than Slowick was able to, considering it's about the same group of guys.

You do raise a good point... Nolan alone should be considered when wondering if this defense is any better.

This staff came in and threw out the trash, immediately. That was the first sign (to me) that they were on the right track. "Starters" like Engelberger were sent packing instantly.

But, you're wrong about being the "same group of guys," taco.

Do you realize that almost 100% of our front seven will be new, or playing different positions?

It's not the same group of guys, it's not the same scheme and it's certainly not the inept prior DC trying to figure out how to use them.

Taco, do you think Dumervil being locked up by a massive LT on every play... and being free to stand up and move around/rush the passer are the same thing?

They're not. This is a completely different defense and people need to realize how needs change when schemes change.

Kaylore
04-28-2009, 01:22 PM
I would like to add one area I do appreciate about McDaniels is he's stuck to his plan and not let popular perception cloud what he thinks we need to do. The media is really piling on and he hasn't budged from what he thinks the team needs to get better. That's a leader I can get behind.

epicSocialism4tw
04-28-2009, 01:24 PM
McDaniels has made many mistakes (some of them severe) in a very short period of time, and has admitted that he is learning on the job.

We all hope for the sake of our favorite team that he finds some sort of formula that works.

Every fan should temper their entusiasm given the results of his decision-making thus far, and every fan should hope that he can pull it together.

However, regardless of the outcome this season, he has set himself at odds with many fans. Its his job to win them back.

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 01:25 PM
I love the three d-linemen CFAs ... especially Baker.

Old Dude
04-28-2009, 01:29 PM
I haven't made up my mind yet. It's too soon to tell.

McD has one big strike against him, AFAIC - not for trading Cutler - but for letting the whole thing get so out of hand.

They did get decent value for him, and time will tell whether they spent it wisely.

I also wonder about the whole Bly deal - more from a salary cap angle than anything else, but it's not quite a strike.

I have no idea whether the F/A signings will work out or not, and neither does anyone else at this point. I think Dawkins is definitely going to help, but the bigger key will be guys like Fields, Davis and Goodman. These could be great bargains that help turn around the defense, or they could be wasted cash.

I don't know how this year's draft will look three years from now. (or even three months from now)

I don't know what kind of staff McD has brought in, or whether they'll be able to coach up the youngsters. At least they kept a couple of our best people. And it will be hard to do any worse than the defensive coaches that were replaced.

I have no idea what kind of coach he's going to be in terms of game-planning, play calling etc. I suspect he's pretty good, but Shanny was sometimes in a class by himself.

I do like several aspects of his coaching philosophy - especially the emphasis on character and the team in general - but is that really new? Everyone says that, but when push comes to shove, they all overlook a lot of stuff if the player performs on the field.


For now, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but what other choice do we have?

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 02:32 PM
I do think Popps raises a good point and about the fact that Shanahan's track record with draft picks. A lot of people would have been throwing food at their TV's if this was the same draft under Shanahan (though a lot of it was thoroughly un-Shanahan) because of the track record and lack of faith in his ability evaluate and select defensive players.

McDaniels has no track record one way or the other. Everyone can whine and piss moan, or cheer and clap their hands about this draft but we really have absolutely no idea how he did. We haven't played a game, so we don't even know what the team really needs. Frankly neither does McDaniels. I don't say that to dog him, but he hasn't seen his own team play in pads yet under the new scheme. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and with no trends to supplement it, we're all just guessing really.

We just don't know. McDaniels talks a good game and I like all the guys he brought in. There's other things I don't like, but really I want to see who these guys are before I think I can form an opinion on what we do and don't need and what we should and should not have done.

The hysteria for one way or the other is weighted heavily on the side of people who have denounced the team as losers for the next two years and I think that says something right there.

Jim Goodman put enough pie in peoples faces recently to buy benefit of the doubt.

That's something McD DOESN'T have right now, at least in my eyes. It's easy enough to be skeptical about the FO after he signs a writer at ESPN to be the head of scouting and Xanders who has no personnel experience.

Imo, they really let that inexperience or flat out unqualification show, this past weekend. Out of roughly 500 prospects, they had 100 on the board... that's just ****ing fantastic. That certainly showed at the end of the draft.

And Quinn... brilliant move. Alphonso Smith, he seems like a great guy, and he's got awesome coordination and he's very fluid, which will count for nothing against "jump ball" throws and bigger targets... something San Diego has already been using to convert third downs at will against us.

Knowshon I know I'll come to love, and it's a necessity with our QB quality.

Ayers, well you'd be hard pressed to find someone saying good things about him before I did (<--shameless self-promotion), and I think in time he'll be a great asset to a 3-4.

After that... well:

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1237576337_daffy-jerking.gif

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 02:33 PM
PS. My "brilliant move" comment on Quinn was sarcasm.

BroncoBuff
04-28-2009, 02:39 PM
PS. My "brilliant move" comment on Quinn was sarcasm.

I laughed ;D

broncosteven
04-28-2009, 03:03 PM
You can all pull this thread up and blast me with it in a couple of years if things go south, but I believe he and the staff are making great strides to improve this team.

Props to him for being a guy who can go out and do what he needs to do. Proper decisions are not always popular ones, and championships aren't won without a few feelings getting hurt along the way.

This isn't about blindly supporting the new staff, but about giving them a little leeway to put their plan into motion, which I can see taking shape. Since the off-season began, the new staff has...

-Signed or drafted over 30 players to improve this team, more than 15 of them on defense.)
-Signed an all-world S and team leader for the defense.
-Brought in a DC with a history as a head coach and a successful coordinator.
-Landed the best RB in college football.
-Landed the best DE/OLB prospect in college football.
-Prioritized a team philosophy over individual, self-serving attitudes.
-Prioritized character players.
-Not only made a verbal commitment to improving special teams, but went out and acquired players to achieve those improvements.
-Conducted a highly targeted draft, adding extra picks now, to develop better players, sooner.
-Rid the defense of the dead weight that had no business of being out on the field.
-Created an atmosphere where players know they're going to compete for a position, no mater what their name is.
-Generated a genuine excitement in the players that is almost tangible and clearly evident when listening to young players like Dumervil and Marshall.

It's been a bumpy ride, but this staff has a highly focused plan and as a Broncos fan, I'm 100% behind them. McDaniels came from a culture of winning and has a track record as a coordinator that speaks for itself, much like our last great head coach.

Flame away, but I'm optimistic.

"...(When) I say we're going to change, I don't think anybody knows what that means. Including some of our players. Yet, they're going to find out. Then once they see us be successful from one week to the next, they're going to say, 'This works.' "

-Broncos Coach, Josh McDaniels

There is some brown stuff on your nose, might want to wipe off after you get that and the man goo dripping down your chin.

LOL just couldn't resist POPS!

Popps
04-28-2009, 03:29 PM
There is some brown stuff on your nose, might want to wipe off after you get that and the man goo dripping down your chin.

LOL just couldn't resist POPS!


Good lord, one of those metaphors would have been gross enough.

Taco John
04-28-2009, 03:51 PM
Good lord, one of those metaphors would have been gross enough.

word up. For real.

Taco John
04-28-2009, 04:01 PM
I'm not hating on the guy. I'm just not loving on him either.

To me, it looks like this team is going to have the same problem it had last year: soft up front on Defense. I look at our front seven, and I expect to see our defense in the bottom third of the league against the rush, and worse - injuries for our linebackers and secondary. I think the most significant upgrade we've made on defense is Dawkins (a safety), but the most significant boost we'll get is through Champ Bailey coming back healthy (hopefully for a full season).

I think it's great that Popps can paint an optimistic picture, despite the fact that what we're seeing right now runs contrary to what he's preached for the last ten years. But regardless of all the great window dressing, I'm having a difficult time understanding how we're going to stop the run having made zero upgrades on the defensive line. Maybe someone has better insight than I do into why we're going to be better against the run this year than last.

Rohirrim
04-28-2009, 04:07 PM
I'm not hating on the guy. I'm just not loving on him either.

To me, it looks like this team is going to have the same problem it had last year: soft up front on Defense. I look at our front seven, and I expect to see our defense in the bottom third of the league against the rush, and worse - injuries for our linebackers and secondary. I think the most significant upgrade we've made on defense is Dawkins (a safety), but the most significant boost we'll get is through Champ Bailey coming back healthy (hopefully for a full season).

I think it's great that Popps can paint an optimistic picture, despite the fact that what we're seeing right now runs contrary to what he's preached for the last ten years. But regardless of all the great window dressing, I'm having a difficult time understanding how we're going to stop the run having made zero upgrades on the defensive line.

I really doubt Champ makes it through this season. He'll be doing too much tackling of RBs.

Popps
04-28-2009, 04:41 PM
I think it's great that Popps can paint an optimistic picture, despite the fact that what we're seeing right now runs contrary to what he's preached for the last ten years.

Again, if that were true... you'd have a case. Unfortunately for you, it's not.

It's possible that 100% of our front seven will be new blood or switching positions. For you to say we've done nothing is just goofy.

We just took arguably the highest rated front seven defender in the draft, Taco.

How can you sit there and say we've done nothing?

Let me break it down a little for you...

We're not even half-way through the off-season, and so far we've done the following to address the front seven...

-Dumped a total liability in Engelberger
-Drafted the best DE/LB prospect in the draft
-Signed two young FA DT's, specifically geared to fit in Nolan's system
-Removed Elvis Dumervil from a spot as a full-time, hand on the ground DE... where he had no business playing.
-Moved Elvis to OLB, where he'll likely be much better suited to use his skill-set.
-Signed an experienced vet, well-known as a good run defender and familiar with our defensive system. (Davis.)
-We'll also get a free draft pick of sorts with the return of Powell, who projects to compete at DT.
-Signed several intriguing prospects for the DL as FA's.


So, again... we're potentially looking at an ENTIRELY NEW front seven.

Your fantasy about us doing nothing and using the "same guys" is just the usual pouty, spin-doctoring created so you can pick a losing argument with me.

Popps
04-28-2009, 04:43 PM
Add to that, big-time improvements in the secondary, some youth injection for the D and a coordinator with an actual history of success as opposed to some yes-man without a plan, and again... forgive some of us if we're a little more optimistic than we were last season after the mighty Boss Bailey/Marlon McCree signings as the solutions to our defensive woes.

TheReverend
04-28-2009, 04:44 PM
This is just hilarious now.

Popps
04-28-2009, 04:44 PM
I really doubt Champ makes it through this season. He'll be doing too much tackling of RBs.

Hope you're wrong. I love that guy.

Though, he's probably been our best tackler the last few seasons, when healthy.

Popps
04-28-2009, 04:45 PM
This is just hilarious now.

Good, bro. See... turn that frown upside down. You can't pout your WHOLE life!

:welcome:

Northman
04-28-2009, 04:45 PM
McDaniels has no track record one way or the other. Everyone can whine and piss moan, or cheer and clap their hands about this draft but we really have absolutely no idea how he did. .

End thread.

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 05:01 PM
I like the change. I want to see some tough football played. I'm tired of getting our ass kicked.

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 05:17 PM
This is just hilarious now.

You are one grumpy old man.

orangenblue2
04-28-2009, 05:25 PM
Maybe someone has better insight than I do into why we're going to be better against the run this year than last.

Bingo...I think their last names are Nolan and McDaniels...

kamakazi_kal
04-28-2009, 07:41 PM
MAN, popps wipe that stuff off your chin .... your trying and reaching so hard it's ..... well it's damn funny.

ooooops all over your face kid.

Odysseus
04-28-2009, 09:08 PM
I am willing to bet the improved condition of our safeties will be a factor in having a much better defense but I don't see this defense being better than middle of the pack.

Where's Plummer???
04-28-2009, 09:18 PM
just me or does Orton look hung over in this pic??

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090419/capt.80f7f2bd932c4e71850b917d947ed57c.broncos_mini camp_football_codz101.jpg

kamakazi_kal
04-28-2009, 09:29 PM
just me or does Orton look hung over in this pic??

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090419/capt.80f7f2bd932c4e71850b917d947ed57c.broncos_mini camp_football_codz101.jpg

naw ... thats orton sayin

"sooooo..... in a 5 man set theirs no RB, soooo who can I dump the ball too then?

that's Mcd thinkin.

"man, i really ...... SIMMS .... start warming up."

Popps
04-28-2009, 09:29 PM
MAN, popps wipe that stuff off your chin .... your trying and reaching so hard it's ..... well it's damn funny.

ooooops all over your face kid.

Wow, so it's the same joke someone already made, only you made it less funny than the first time.

Great work! You've really been an asset to the forum since joining.

kamakazi_kal
04-28-2009, 09:30 PM
Wow, so it's the same joke someone already made, only you made it less funny than the first time.

Great work! You've really been an asset to the forum since joining.

Thanks ..... i do my best. :rofl:

Hey bud, you missed a spot.

Popps
04-28-2009, 09:35 PM
I am willing to bet the improved condition of our safeties will be a factor in having a much better defense but I don't see this defense being better than middle of the pack.


Certainly, our secondary had no help up front last year... and hopefully the new scheme/coach/talent will improve that issue. We also deal with injuries, and two of the least instinctual starting safeties I've ever seen.

The secondary basically went to hell when Lynch retired. He might have lost a step, but he knew where to be out there and helped keep the secondary in order.

Now, we'll have another guy of the same ilk, hopefully a healthy Champ... and some young guys who look to have starting potential to groom.

Plus, we signed Hill and Goodman, who both figure to be regular players. We actually paid Goodman pretty well, so I expect him to be a starter as we groom Smith.

Odysseus
04-28-2009, 10:09 PM
Certainly, our secondary had no help up front last year... and hopefully the new scheme/coach/talent will improve that issue. We also deal with injuries, and two of the least instinctual starting safeties I've ever seen.

The secondary basically went to hell when Lynch retired. He might have lost a step, but he knew where to be out there and helped keep the secondary in order.

Now, we'll have another guy of the same ilk, hopefully a healthy Champ... and some young guys who look to have starting potential to groom.

Plus, we signed Hill and Goodman, who both figure to be regular players. We actually paid Goodman pretty well, so I expect him to be a starter as we groom Smith.

I think Champ needs to have a big year this year. I'm not sure what he's got left in the tank. He's been struggling and the annual re-destruction of our defense has to be hard.

Nolan is a great coach and this is his opportunity to prove to the league his success is not a fluke. I am not convinced in anything regarding our defense until the middle of the season. The annual meltdowns on defense qualifies for it's own series on YouTube.

We have had strong on field coaches several times in our past but all that confidence and leadership created a vacuum at the top. We need coaches that do delegate instead of abdicate. We will have to see if that plays out.

If the defense rates higher than 20 across the board I hate to say this but I will feel some mild sense of satisfaction.

Mile High Mojoe
04-28-2009, 10:18 PM
McDaniels has made many mistakes (some of them severe) in a very short period of time, and has admitted that he is learning on the job.

We all hope for the sake of our favorite team that he finds some sort of formula that works.

Every fan should temper their entusiasm given the results of his decision-making thus far, and every fan should hope that he can pull it together.

However, regardless of the outcome this season, he has set himself at odds with many fans. Its his job to win them back.I don't how it could be summed up any better than this. It is his job to win the fans back. How? With wins on the field, the regular season, the playoffs and the Super Bowl. The bar is set high but that's the way it should be, anything shorter is something we shouldn't accept.

Last year's 8-8 season just doesn't cut it. It's getting to and winning Super Bowls NOW, not 5 years from now or 3 years or even 2 years from now. If the Cardinals can make it to the Super Bowl and be only one play away from winning it why can't the Broncos? If he's a genius show us the money. If he really believed that blowing off Cutler was best for the Broncos, then let's see him win with Orton or Simms.

IMO patting McD on the fanny is total BS because he hasn't deserved it yet, what he has done is make poor personnel decisions thus far. It doesn't make you a bad fan to deserve and expect the best. He wanted the job, he got it, now get it done. That's it and that's all.

ScottXray
04-28-2009, 10:50 PM
I don't how it could be summed up any better than this. It is his job to win the fans back. How? With wins on the field, the regular season, the playoffs and the Super Bowl. The bar is set high but that's the way it should be, anything shorter is something we shouldn't accept.

Last year's 8-8 season just doesn't cut it. It's getting to and winning Super Bowls NOW, not 5 years from now or 3 years or even 2 years from now. If the Cardinals can make it to the Super Bowl and be only one play away from winning it why can't the Broncos? If he's a genius show us the money. If he really believed that blowing off Cutler was best for the Broncos, then let's see him win with Orton or Simms.

IMO patting McD on the fanny is total BS because he hasn't deserved it yet, what he has done is make poor personnel decisions thus far. It doesn't make you a bad fan to deserve and expect the best. He wanted the job, he got it, now get it done. That's it and that's all.


Your'e right...wins will solve everything.

However , you can't compare this years schedule, to the one last year.
SD absolutely went in the tank at the years start....We had a THREE game lead practically given to us....and that Shanahan team managed to blow it.
Not only that they Blew it 52-21 in the last game. Annother EMBARASSMENT
and blow out loss.

If the Broncos go 8-8 THIS year I think they will have shown tremendous improvement! Comparing it to last year and saying it doesn't cut it would be
a bit unfair. With all the changes that have been made, and the schedule, and the changes in schemes and personnel, 8-8 will be a Fantastic job. Anything more than that would rate a "coach of the year" type season.


So if they DON'T go 8-8, but come close, you won't see me calling for a new HC.

I'm not ALL IN with McDaniels yet, but I think he deserves more than one year. Shanny left the cupboard pretty bare, and this is only the FIRST trip to the maarket..

Blueflame
04-28-2009, 11:16 PM
Your'e right...wins will solve everything.

However , you can't compare this years schedule, to the one last year.
SD absolutely went in the tank at the years start....We had a THREE game lead practically given to us....and that Shanahan team managed to blow it.
Not only that they Blew it 52-21 in the last game. Annother EMBARASSMENT
and blow out loss.

If the Broncos go 8-8 THIS year I think they will have shown tremendous improvement! Comparing it to last year and saying it doesn't cut it would be
a bit unfair. With all the changes that have been made, and the schedule, and the changes in schemes and personnel, 8-8 will be a Fantastic job. Anything more than that would rate a "coach of the year" type season.


So if they DON'T go 8-8, but come close, you won't see me calling for a new HC.

I'm not ALL IN with McDaniels yet, but I think he deserves more than one year. Shanny left the cupboard pretty bare, and this is only the FIRST trip to the maarket..

And it showed.

OrangeRising
04-28-2009, 11:19 PM
Your'e right...wins will solve everything.

However , you can't compare this years schedule, to the one last year.
SD absolutely went in the tank at the years start....We had a THREE game lead practically given to us....and that Shanahan team managed to blow it.
Not only that they Blew it 52-21 in the last game. Annother EMBARASSMENT
and blow out loss.

If the Broncos go 8-8 THIS year I think they will have shown tremendous improvement! Comparing it to last year and saying it doesn't cut it would be
a bit unfair. With all the changes that have been made, and the schedule, and the changes in schemes and personnel, 8-8 will be a Fantastic job. Anything more than that would rate a "coach of the year" type season.


So if they DON'T go 8-8, but come close, you won't see me calling for a new HC.

I'm not ALL IN with McDaniels yet, but I think he deserves more than one year. Shanny left the cupboard pretty bare, and this is only the FIRST trip to the maarket..

You really can't be serious. Shanny left a rock-solid O-Line, a Pro-Bowl QB, Outstanding WR's/TE's and a mish-mash of RBs that, in the case of Peyton Hillis, offered some real promise.

The defense was a mess, and remains a mess, unless the Josholites want to preach the greatness that will be Mike Nolan, a couple of rookie unknowns and a few more who weren't even drafted. A mess.

But a bare cupboard? I would bet that half the teams in the NFL would love to have the offensive cupboard Mike left behind, apparently not Josh McDaniels, but just about anyone else.

But a bare cupboard? Bit of a reach maybe?

summerdenver
04-28-2009, 11:44 PM
Your'e right...wins will solve everything.

However , you can't compare this years schedule, to the one last year.
SD absolutely went in the tank at the years start....We had a THREE game lead practically given to us....and that Shanahan team managed to blow it.
Not only that they Blew it 52-21 in the last game. Annother EMBARASSMENT
and blow out loss.

If the Broncos go 8-8 THIS year I think they will have shown tremendous improvement! Comparing it to last year and saying it doesn't cut it would be
a bit unfair. With all the changes that have been made, and the schedule, and the changes in schemes and personnel, 8-8 will be a Fantastic job. Anything more than that would rate a "coach of the year" type season.


So if they DON'T go 8-8, but come close, you won't see me calling for a new HC.

I'm not ALL IN with McDaniels yet, but I think he deserves more than one year. Shanny left the cupboard pretty bare, and this is only the FIRST trip to the maarket..

WTF. We did not loose any one from the offense last year except Jay who if rumors were to be beleived was not cerebral enough to play in the new scheme anyway. We replaced him with a winner (17-2)!!!! at QB

(on aside note did you know Orton was eager to report to work on the first day!!!!)

We have very good RB now and got rid of the all the defensive coaches. We spent ton of money improving the secondary and we have spent 3 first round picks in draft this year. In what way are we inferior to last years team that went 8-8 inspite of Jay playing drunk most of the games?. Please explain.

(on a side note did you hear how much respect Bears players showed including Urlacher about our QB? That tells me i need to know that he is a winner and they are actually jealous of us.)

If Orton was 17-2 with poor offensive line and no receivers, then how good he will be now that he has one of the best OLs and explosive receivers and a master like McDaniels to teach him?

Unlike last year we have a brilliant motivator as coach now and he will preach the importance of playing as a team to the young players and they will not quit like last year.

So please tell me in what way is this team inferior to last years team? We have better coaches, supeiror drafting and better talent. Oh btw, we have 19th ranked schedule this year.

GreatBronco16
04-28-2009, 11:47 PM
WTF. We did not loose any one from the offense last year except Jay who if rumors were to be beleived was not cerebral enough to play in the new scheme anyway. We replaced him with a winner (17-2)!!!! at QB

(on aside note did you know Orton was eager to report to work on the first day!!!!)

We have very good RB now and got rid of the all the defensive coaches. We spent ton of money improving the secondary and we have spent 3 first round picks in draft this year. In what way are we inferior to last years team that went 8-8 inspite of Jay playing drunk most of the games?. Please explain.

(on a side note did you hear how much respect Bears players showed including Urlacher about our QB? That tells me i need to know that he is a winner and they are actually jealous of us.)

If Orton was 17-2 with poor offensive line and no receivers, then how good he will be now that he has one of the best OLs and explosive receivers and a master like McDaniels to teach him?

Unlike last year we have a brilliant motivator as coach now and he will preach the importance of playing as a team to the young players and they will not quit like last year.

So please tell me in what way is this team inferior to last years team? We have better coaches, supeiror drafting and better talent. Oh btw, we have 19th ranked schedule this year.


I'll sum it up for you. No Jay Cutler means this team can't win a game. Or something along those lines.

summerdenver
04-29-2009, 12:22 AM
I'll sum it up for you. No Jay Cutler means this team can't win a game. Or something along those lines.

Come on dude don't let the big arm fool you. He was huge distraction and clearly lacked leadership skills. We are a better team even without a talented individual because we are a team now.

Why do you think we are inferior team than last year? did we loose any one important [layer? we are getting Champ back healthy and added boat load of talent why such gloom and doom?

Popps
04-29-2009, 12:39 AM
I think by a bare cupboard, I'm guessing ScottXwas referring more to the defense and special teams, both of which basically have to be re-built from scratch. Without those, a high-yardage offense isn't worth much. (As we've seen the last couple of seasons.)

Mile High Mojoe
04-29-2009, 01:22 AM
Your'e right...wins will solve everything.

However , you can't compare this years schedule, to the one last year.
SD absolutely went in the tank at the years start....We had a THREE game lead practically given to us....and that Shanahan team managed to blow it.
Not only that they Blew it 52-21 in the last game. Annother EMBARASSMENT
and blow out loss.

If the Broncos go 8-8 THIS year I think they will have shown tremendous improvement! Comparing it to last year and saying it doesn't cut it would be
a bit unfair. With all the changes that have been made, and the schedule, and the changes in schemes and personnel, 8-8 will be a Fantastic job. Anything more than that would rate a "coach of the year" type season.


So if they DON'T go 8-8, but come close, you won't see me calling for a new HC.

I'm not ALL IN with McDaniels yet, but I think he deserves more than one year. Shanny left the cupboard pretty bare, and this is only the FIRST trip to the maarket..My point is that if heís the great Coach heís been made out to be, if heís the unsurpassed guru of teaching a nobody like Cassel to be a so called great QB then why canít we expect him to take a mediocre QB like Orton, a good OL, the best Rookie Stud RB to come out of the 2009 Draft along with all the great draft picks Popps says heís supposedly made and make them into a winner now?

I donít have any delusions, weíll be lucky to see a 4 win season with the talent we have on D. I just donít see why McDaniels should be immune from criticism or doubt when some of the moves he made starting with the Cutler trade make him look like an arrogant little Hoodie Jr. Wannabe. He deserves the hot seat, he put his own a$$ into, letís see if he can coach his way out of it.

It didnít stop with the trade, he signed a fragile Chris Simms to a $3 million dollar contract, dumped yet more money in 3 RBís (Buckhalter, Arrington and Jordan, guys nobody wanted and who would be riding the pine on other teams) then drafts Moreno? Then he had 10 opportunities to address the weakest unit on the team and he took ONE guy ...ONE to fill the huge hole that is the front 7?

Tacoís right, basically the front 7 has about the same talent level as last year with a couple of new free agents mixed in. We may or may not see improvement in the defensive backfield even with the aging Dawkins or the Rookies. What good does a great group of DBís do us anyway if we canít stop the run or get within 5 yards of a QB with a pass rush? Dawkins and Champ not only will be running their collective fannies off trying to cover theyíll probably lead the team in tackles because we donít have anyone other than DJ that can tackle at the second level.

We needed a NT, and more LBís not 3 DBís, 2 OL, 1 TE and another smurf WR. If heís the kind of coach who can make something out of nothing on offense why did he draft so many offense players? He deserves the hot seat, he put his own a$$ into, letís see if he can coach his way out of it. He canít blame Shanahan for leaving the cupboard bare, this is his team now and the expectations shouldnít be any lower for him than any other Coach in the NFL.

Excuse me for the long rant here I just started posting in here again a few days ago and Iím sure others have made the same points better than I have. I guess I let my passion get the better of me. Ending this on a good note, Iím excited to see what Moreno brings to the dance, he may end up being the one bright spot in what looks to be a very long and difficult season for the Broncos.

cutthemdown
04-29-2009, 01:33 AM
Mile High Mojo if I may I'd like to jump in.

I think its not only ok to critique the moves and say you think they are dumb. I do that a lot when moves don't make sense. But what you need from a draft is players who can become good NFL starters. If you start falling into a mode where you target positions more then you do overall talent you run into the trouble Broncos have been in.

To write off these picks as dumb before they play doesn't IMO qualify as a critique its more like just being upset because you don't like the coach.

For all the people pissed off only winning will fix the relationship. For sure if he had taken Brace etc and he ended up stinking that would not have helped except for the short term.

If the Midget WR, OL, TE, DB become good NFL players the draft is a success, it doesn't matter what position they play.

Blueflame
04-29-2009, 01:33 AM
Jon Kitna has the skills to kill even the best secondary in the league if he has enough time to knit an afghan in the pocket (zero pass rush).

Popps
04-29-2009, 01:40 AM
My point is that if heís the great Coach heís been made out to be, if heís the unsurpassed guru of teaching a nobody like Cassel to be a so called great QB then why canít we expect him to take a mediocre QB like Orton, a good OL, the best Rookie Stud RB to come out of the 2009 Draft along with all the great draft picks Popps says heís supposedly made and make them into a winner now?.

Wow, that might be a world record for run-on sentences.

Oh, and I didn't say all of his draft picks were great. I graded us at a B-. Some good, some risky, and I would have done a couple things differently. But, I'm a guy on a message board.

I just donít see why McDaniels should be immune from criticism or doubt


Who said he was? The bashers have run rampant on this board. Quite the contrary, anyone pedaling a bit of optimism around here has been met with a barrage of attacks about "McBastard," or whatever cute name you chose to use.

he may end up being the one bright spot in what looks to be a very long and difficult season for the Broncos.
.

Yea, because the last few have been stellar. Not difficult at all, right? Sub .500 record, being made a laughing stock on national TV during must-win games. That's been great!

Judging by the response to the poll, you're in the extreme minority with the gloom-doom outlook for the season. So, it may look long and difficult to you, but most of us are excited about the direction this franchise is taking.

Mile High Mojoe
04-29-2009, 01:50 AM
Mile High Mojo if I may I'd like to jump in.

I think its not only ok to critique the moves and say you think they are dumb. I do that a lot when moves don't make sense. But what you need from a draft is players who can become good NFL starters. If you start falling into a mode where you target positions more then you do overall talent you run into the trouble Broncos have been in.

To write off these picks as dumb before they play doesn't IMO qualify as a critique its more like just being upset because you don't like the coach.

For all the people pissed off only winning will fix the relationship. For sure if he had taken Brace etc and he ended up stinking that would not have helped except for the short term.

If the Midget WR, OL, TE, DB become good NFL players the draft is a success, it doesn't matter what position they play.

I understand that you canít pinpoint players or draft from a position of need only. Maybe the crop of defenders was weaker this year but I just canít believe that some of the players he passed on wouldnít have helped us on D. Weíve had the O the bad D is what has sunk the Broncos for a decade.

I donít dislike McD in fact Iíd have to say when I spent the time watching his press conference after the second day of the draft he seemed to be confident in making his case for what he did in the draft. I admire that and he does seem to talk a good game but until he delivers on the field with better results than an 8-8 season he deserves the hammer and the case could be made that we had no business firing Shanahan.

SouthStndJunkie
04-29-2009, 02:02 AM
You can all pull this thread up and blast me with it in a couple of years if things go south, but I believe he and the staff are making great strides to improve this team.

Props to him for being a guy who can go out and do what he needs to do. Proper decisions are not always popular ones, and championships aren't won without a few feelings getting hurt along the way.

This isn't about blindly supporting the new staff, but about giving them a little leeway to put their plan into motion, which I can see taking shape. Since the off-season began, the new staff has...

-Signed or drafted over 30 players to improve this team, more than 15 of them on defense.)
-Signed an all-world S and team leader for the defense.
-Brought in a DC with a history as a head coach and a successful coordinator.
-Landed the best RB in college football.
-Landed the best DE/OLB prospect in college football.
-Prioritized a team philosophy over individual, self-serving attitudes.
-Prioritized character players.
-Not only made a verbal commitment to improving special teams, but went out and acquired players to achieve those improvements.
-Conducted a highly targeted draft, adding extra picks now, to develop better players, sooner.
-Rid the defense of the dead weight that had no business of being out on the field.
-Created an atmosphere where players know they're going to compete for a position, no mater what their name is.
-Generated a genuine excitement in the players that is almost tangible and clearly evident when listening to young players like Dumervil and Marshall.

It's been a bumpy ride, but this staff has a highly focused plan and as a Broncos fan, I'm 100% behind them. McDaniels came from a culture of winning and has a track record as a coordinator that speaks for itself, much like our last great head coach.

Flame away, but I'm optimistic.

"...(When) I say we're going to change, I don't think anybody knows what that means. Including some of our players. Yet, they're going to find out. Then once they see us be successful from one week to the next, they're going to say, 'This works.' "

-Broncos Coach, Josh McDaniels

Looks like you tried to write his Hall of Fame bio.

I think an 'Appreciation Thread' is kind of silly at his juncture.

I am not happy about the Cutler fiasco....but am willing to give McDaniels a chance. I am not happy about Bowlen firing Shanny....but I can't hold that against McDaniels.

That said....I am not going to 'appreciate' him until I see some wins. We uprooted a solid and stable franchise and shook it up. Sometimes change is good and sometimes change is bad.

At this point, I am simply observing.

Blueflame
04-29-2009, 02:13 AM
Wow, that might be a world record for run-on sentences.

Oh, and I didn't say all of his draft picks were great. I graded us at a B-. Some good, some risky, and I would have done a couple things differently. But, I'm a guy on a message board.



Who said he was? The bashers have run rampant on this board. Quite the contrary, anyone pedaling a bit of optimism around here has been met with a barrage of attacks about "McBastard," or whatever cute name you chose to use.



Yea, because the last few have been stellar. Not difficult at all, right? [Sub .500 record, being made a laughing stock on national TV during must-win games. That's been great!

Judging by the response to the poll, you're in the extreme minority with the gloom-doom outlook for the season. So, it may look long and difficult to you, but most of us are excited about the direction this franchise is taking.

The Shanahan-era Broncos were only sub .500 twice. (1999 and 2007) Twice in 14 years.

Perhaps a visual will help....

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/Shanahanerawinchart.jpg

footstepsfrom#27
04-29-2009, 02:41 AM
Jon Kitna has the skills to kill even the best secondary in the league if he has enough time to knit an afghan in the pocket (zero pass rush).
Kitna knits?

TailgateNut
04-29-2009, 06:59 AM
The Shanahan-era Broncos were only sub .500 twice. (1999 and 2007) Twice in 14 years.

Perhaps a visual will help....

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/Shanahanerawinchart.jpg




.........and the "orange crush days" were awesome. If you look at his post Elway days he's at 4-.500 or less and 6 greater than middle of the pack.
Get over it. He's gone and we have a new coach which you, I and the players will have to deal with. The hangings can commence after this season if you're still part of the "posse".:D

~Crash~
04-29-2009, 07:00 AM
WTF. We did not loose any one from the offense last year except Jay who if rumors were to be beleived was not cerebral enough to play in the new scheme anyway. We replaced him with a winner (17-2)!!!! at QB

(on aside note did you know Orton was eager to report to work on the first day!!!!)

We have very good RB now and got rid of the all the defensive coaches. We spent ton of money improving the secondary and we have spent 3 first round picks in draft this year. In what way are we inferior to last years team that went 8-8 inspite of Jay playing drunk most of the games?. Please explain.

(on a side note did you hear how much respect Bears players showed including Urlacher about our QB? That tells me i need to know that he is a winner and they are actually jealous of us.)

If Orton was 17-2 with poor offensive line and no receivers, then how good he will be now that he has one of the best OLs and explosive receivers and a master like McDaniels to teach him?

Unlike last year we have a brilliant motivator as coach now and he will preach the importance of playing as a team to the young players and they will not quit like last year.

So please tell me in what way is this team inferior to last years team? We have better coaches, supeiror drafting and better talent. Oh btw, we have 19th ranked schedule this year.

yep I guess he was smart enough to run Shanahans O but not this ass hats O ....nice keep coming up with this crap . I would of read past your first line but I don't read fail

rastaman
04-29-2009, 07:01 AM
seems like we could have done nearly all that you mentioned AND kept our probowl QB, right?

Yep! McDaniels has already made his made bed. I'm expecting McD to acheive the same level of success over a 4 year period that Shanny accomplished!!!

When you think about it, McDaniels is taking over the team and scenario that Shanny took over in 1995. The records of the coaches both McD and Shanny replaced are the same. Except unlike McD, Shanny did not trade the Franchise QB!!! However, both McD and Shanny managed to draft their star RB's with their first draft as head coaches with acquiring Moreno and TD.

So in the next 4 years, I expect McD to go 48-16 regular season, 7-1 post season, and two SB victories.

Many of the McDaniels fan club membership want to lower the bar of expectation for McDaniels. The bar has already been set by what Shanny accomplished in his first 4 years. Bowlen will give McD 6 years to accomplish hhalf as much as what Shanny accomplished in his first 4 years.

barryr
04-29-2009, 07:05 AM
Hmm, looks like some did not read what the title of this thread was. Just became another "McDaniels is an idiot and should be fired before the season starts" type thread and good thing since we haven't had enough of those started by the same people over and over again.

rastaman
04-29-2009, 07:18 AM
Hmm, looks like some did not read what the title of this thread was. Just became another "McDaniels is an idiot and should be fired before the season starts" type thread and good thing since we haven't had enough of those started by the same people over and over again.

Good point......what's their to be appreciative about in the first place when youconsider we don't know what type of product McD will put on the field. After all he's a rookie 32 year old HC who has yet to win a single game in the NFL yet. This thread has gotten alittle ahead of itself.

epicSocialism4tw
04-29-2009, 07:33 AM
Hmm, looks like some did not read what the title of this thread was. Just became another "McDaniels is an idiot and should be fired before the season starts" type thread and good thing since we haven't had enough of those started by the same people over and over again.

It's Popps. You understand from the get-go that it is an antagonistic thread.

If one doesnt know Popps' history here, then they can tell that its antagonistic by the title. Why would someone "appreciate" McD now? Theres nothing to appreciate, really. He has a string of questionable personnel moves and asset fumbles under his belt and not a game has been played yet. There have been no successes for McD.

Does that mean that it is impossible for him to succeed? No. Not by any means. He has gutted the roster in many ways and brought in his guys. There will be no excuses for failure, as he is set up for success by his own standards.

I hope that McD can pull it together, because even non-Broncos fans are shocked by the stunts that he has pulled thus far.

colonelbeef
04-29-2009, 07:55 AM
Your'e right...wins will solve everything.

However , you can't compare this years schedule, to the one last year.
SD absolutely went in the tank at the years start....We had a THREE game lead practically given to us....and that Shanahan team managed to blow it.
Not only that they Blew it 52-21 in the last game. Annother EMBARASSMENT
and blow out loss.

If the Broncos go 8-8 THIS year I think they will have shown tremendous improvement! Comparing it to last year and saying it doesn't cut it would be
a bit unfair. With all the changes that have been made, and the schedule, and the changes in schemes and personnel, 8-8 will be a Fantastic job. Anything more than that would rate a "coach of the year" type season.


So if they DON'T go 8-8, but come close, you won't see me calling for a new HC.

I'm not ALL IN with McDaniels yet, but I think he deserves more than one year. Shanny left the cupboard pretty bare, and this is only the FIRST trip to the maarket..

Nothing you posted makes any sense whatsoever.

So, having the same record as last year is a "tremendous improvement" according to you?

Shanahan left the cupboard "pretty bare" except of course for the offense having star after star, all under the age of 25- including the best young OL, WR tandem, HB/FB in Hillis, and QB, again ALL UNDER THE AGE OF 25. Just player after player with unlimited potential, all just starting their careers- and the cupboard is bare? Most talented young O in the league. In other words, a full cupboard, and you have zero understanding of either a) pro football or b)where the Broncos factually stood going into this offseason.

Shanahan left a star studded, super young O, tons of cap space, and good draft picks with which to rebuild the defense around Champ and DJ. He left the cupboard absolutely stocked, and if you think otherwise, you are beyond ****ing lost.

Popps
04-29-2009, 09:44 AM
It's Popps. You understand from the get-go that it is an antagonistic thread.

If one doesnt know Popps' history here, then they can tell that its antagonistic by the title. Why would someone "appreciate" McD now?

Look, I don't even know who you are. Let's start there.

But, it sounds like you spend a lot of time thinking about me. So, let me throw you a bone and address your misguided post.

I very clearly laid out why the new staff should be appreciated, or at least in about 75% of our opinions, he does. The first post of this thread gives a laundry list of moves we've made, and an attitude many of us (include the players) believe he's bringing to the team.

Then, you move on to say there's "nothing to appreciate."

That's your opinion, skippy... and you're in the minority to believe so. So, the "NO" option is the one you should have clicked.... but it appears your gloom and doom bull**** isn't flying with most posters here, despite squeaky wheels like yourself being the loudest around here.

vancejohnson82
04-29-2009, 10:00 AM
It's Popps. You understand from the get-go that it is an antagonistic thread.

If one doesnt know Popps' history here, then they can tell that its antagonistic by the title. Why would someone "appreciate" McD now? Theres nothing to appreciate, really. He has a string of questionable personnel moves and asset fumbles under his belt and not a game has been played yet. There have been no successes for McD.

Does that mean that it is impossible for him to succeed? No. Not by any means. He has gutted the roster in many ways and brought in his guys. There will be no excuses for failure, as he is set up for success by his own standards.

I hope that McD can pull it together, because even non-Broncos fans are shocked by the stunts that he has pulled thus far.


No....I think this thread was an optimistic thread,trying to get people on board with looking forward to the season and getting excited about the moves made..

instead, the posse from the "McDaniels is in Over His Head", "We Are Screwed" threads hijacked it and started with the doom and gloom crap

epicSocialism4tw
04-29-2009, 10:11 AM
Look, I don't even know who you are. Let's start there.

I have been the other main proponent of the "defensive front seven" solution here on this board for a long time. Taco John even used a sig I gave him in when he lost a bet based on whether or not Jay Cutler would have solved the problems with the franchise that he ascribed to Jake Plummer.

But, it sounds like you spend a lot of time thinking about me. So, let me throw you a bone and address your misguided post.

Ha!

No, Ive just been around awhile. We spent alot of time talking about the D-line.

I very clearly laid out why the new staff should be appreciated, or at least in about 75% of our opinions, he does. The first post of this thread gives a laundry list of moves we've made, and an attitude many of us (include the players) believe he's bringing to the team.

Then, you move on to say there's "nothing to appreciate."

Let me know when there is something tangible to appreciate other than a string of disasterous personnel moves.

That's your opinion, skippy... and you're in the minority to believe so. So, the "NO" option is the one you should have clicked.... but it appears your gloom and doom bull**** isn't flying with most posters here, despite squeaky wheels like yourself being the loudest around here.

My opinion is reasonable. The guy has not been intelligent in the way that he has handled anything thus far. I dont need to rehash all of the ways he has flubbed up, and I dont have to because it is common knowledge among Broncos fans. The simple fact that just about every Broncos fan is aware of how he has flubbed up out of the gates should be an indicator to you that he has not been very smart. His unpopularity is due to his mistakes and what seems like his unbridled arrogance. He has fired or traded popular, talented players. He has used the assets that he accumulated in questionable manners. He basically spat on everything created by a very popular hall-of-fame coach.

It should be easy to see why he would not be trusted. He hasnt earned trust, but he has earned increasing skepticism.

It will take his actions to reverse that opinion.

Popps
04-29-2009, 10:14 AM
Again, he's turned over the entire front seven, brought in 30 players and in many opinions, changed the attitude of the franchise to one where players know they'll have to fight for a job, and team comes first.

So, to many of us, that's tangible. As I said, no one is stopping anyone from staying in pouty-land. You're welcome to reside there permanently. This is simply a thread that offers up the alternative.

Sorry that bums you out so much.

gyldenlove
04-29-2009, 10:30 AM
This isn't about blindly supporting the new staff, but about giving them a little leeway to put their plan into motion, which I can see taking shape. Since the off-season began, the new staff has...

-Signed or drafted over 30 players to improve this team, more than 15 of them on defense.) And quite a few of them have no business on an NFL team, Jvonne Parker anyone? Of the people we have signed and drafted we have added a bunch of good DBs, some RBs of varying quality, some QBs of questionable quality, some defensive linemen of dubious quality (maybe except Ayers) and a few odds and ends of various quality
-Signed an all-world S and team leader for the defense. That is a big stretch, by that logic Simeon Rice was all-world when we got him
-Brought in a DC with a history as a head coach and a successful coordinator. A successful DC, but poor HC
-Landed the best RB in college football. yup
-Landed the best DE/OLB prospect in college football. That is a stretch
-Prioritized a team philosophy over individual, self-serving attitudes.
-Prioritized character players.
-Not only made a verbal commitment to improving special teams, but went out and acquired players to achieve those improvements.
-Conducted a highly targeted draft, adding extra picks now, to develop better players, sooner. We had 10 draft picks before the draft and ended up with 10 players, we didn't add any picks
-Rid the defense of the dead weight that had no business of being out on the field.and then proceeded to bring in Jvonne Parker and Darrell Reid, except for Andra Davies the front 7 seem to consist entirely of players from the Shanahan era
-Created an atmosphere where players know they're going to compete for a position, no mater what their name is.
-Generated a genuine excitement in the players that is almost tangible and clearly evident when listening to young players like Dumervil and Marshall.

It's been a bumpy ride, but this staff has a highly focused plan and as a Broncos fan, I'm 100% behind them. McDaniels came from a culture of winning as did Nolan, he didn't so well and has a track record as a coordinator that speaks for itself, much like our last great head coach.

Flame away, but I'm optimistic.

"...(When) I say we're going to change, I don't think anybody knows what that means. Including some of our players. Yet, they're going to find out. Then once they see us be successful from one week to the next, they're going to say, 'This works.' "

-Broncos Coach, Josh McDaniels

The same way the players are replaceable, as is the coach. I support the Broncos team and will continue to do so, but I am still not sold on the direction we have taken. I hope we win and if we do I will give all credit to Mcdaniels.

epicSocialism4tw
04-29-2009, 10:36 AM
Again, he's turned over the entire front seven, brought in 30 players and in many opinions, changed the attitude of the franchise to one where players know they'll have to fight for a job, and team comes first.

So, to many of us, that's tangible. As I said, no one is stopping anyone from staying in pouty-land. You're welcome to reside there permanently. This is simply a thread that offers up the alternative.

Sorry that bums you out so much.

Pouty-land?

People see a franchise moving in a direction that may or may not be positive, and juxtaposed with that is the loss of a franchise QB that was considered the cornerstone of a Colts-like dominant offense as the young star players all developed together.

vancejohnson82
04-29-2009, 10:53 AM
Pouty-land?

People see a franchise moving in a direction that may or may not be positive, and juxtaposed with that is the loss of a franchise QB that was considered the cornerstone of a Colts-like dominant offense as the young star players all developed together.

Colts-like????

Peyton Manning - a quiet, systematic quarterback with an uncanny ability to always make the right throw

Marvin Harrison - humble man, excellent route runner, always where he is supposed to be who makes catches all over the field....

Edgerrin James - an every down running back


VS.

Jay Cutler - great arm, erratic and sometimes makes the wrong throw...known for ruffling some feathers with his words

Brandon Marshall - the "new" breed of WR...not a great route runner but has great hands...can disappear sometimes during games

RB - we didnt really have one


we werent close to being the Colts

TailgateNut
04-29-2009, 11:03 AM
. As I said, no one is stopping anyone from staying in pouty-land. You're welcome to reside there permanently. .


LOL He's been in the "dumps" since the election. ....and as many of the others in "pouty-land", feels he knows best and/or better than those who currently decide what they feel is best for the organization. The whole draft second guessing game is laughable until you see what the unit as a whole can and does accomplish.

As in business, one good man doesn't make a company. It takes a good leader, good managers, and good field personell, all with a one for all, all for one attitude.

TailgateNut
04-29-2009, 11:07 AM
Pouty-land?

People see a franchise moving in a direction that may or may not be positive, and juxtaposed with that is the loss of a franchise QB that was considered the cornerstone of a Colts-like dominant offense as the young star players all developed together.

Oy vey! Cutler the (speaking of Pouty-land) "I'll throw a temper tantrum" QB was to be the cornerstone. A cornerstone who would have possible alienated half the team with his attitude. That one?

Get off the wagon already, the constant bitching, moaning and second guessing is tiring.

Popps
04-29-2009, 11:07 AM
Sorry Blueflame, .500 record over the last three years. (Not sub-.500.) You are correct.

That said, given the collapse this season, lack of a defense and single playoff win in 10 years, needling the minutia to death on this thing is probably not worth either of our time.

Time to move into the future.

TailgateNut
04-29-2009, 11:10 AM
Colts-like????

Peyton Manning - a quiet, systematic quarterback with an uncanny ability to always make the right throw

Marvin Harrison - humble man, excellent route runner, always where he is supposed to be who makes catches all over the field....

Edgerrin James - an every down running back


VS.

Jay Cutler - great arm, erratic and sometimes makes the wrong throw...known for ruffling some feathers with his words

Brandon Marshall - the "new" breed of WR...not a great route runner but has great hands...can disappear sometimes during games

RB - we didnt really have one


we werent close to being the Colts


Although I can't stand Peyton, to compare Cutler to him at this stage of his career is assinine.
In addition, if skillet can see the future in his crystal ball, maybe he can enlighten us all as to when Brandons' next suspension will occur. Considering he's also part of the "dream team".:wiggle:

vancejohnson82
04-29-2009, 11:19 AM
Although I can't stand Peyton, to compare Cutler to him at this stage of his career is assinine.
In addition, if skillet can see the future in his crystal ball, maybe he can enlighten us all as to when Brandons' next suspension will occur. Considering he's also part of the "dream team".:wiggle:

a comparison to the Colts is just too far out in left field to let slide

they were and kind of still are, a model of consistency...our offense was the complete opposite

Broncos4tw
04-29-2009, 11:20 AM
Any coach can come in and utterly dismantle your team, and hire a bunch of new people to take their places. I think he has done some stupid things, and some good things.

But none of that matters. It's all about getting W's, nothing more or less. I'll appreciate him a lot more once we start winning games. He hasn't DONE anything yet.

I'll be happy to go back and claim he did know what he was doing all along, and even throw in a "All Hail McD!" chant, if he gets the job done down the road. It's a bit premature to be giving a guy that has 0 wins for us an appreciation thread. What if this combination of talent and coaches ends up being a complete bomb? What then?

Wait and see, I say.

TailgateNut
04-29-2009, 11:25 AM
a comparison to the Colts is just too far out in left field to let slide

they were and kind of still are, a model of consistency...our offense was the complete opposite

Thank you. Some folks just don't get the FACT that of all the games we won last season, if not handed to us by a ref, we barely "eeked out" the W, or prevent the L in many of them.

colonelbeef
04-29-2009, 11:36 AM
Colts-like????

Peyton Manning - a quiet, systematic quarterback with an uncanny ability to always make the right throw

Marvin Harrison - humble man, excellent route runner, always where he is supposed to be who makes catches all over the field....

Edgerrin James - an every down running back


VS.

Jay Cutler - great arm, erratic and sometimes makes the wrong throw...known for ruffling some feathers with his words

Brandon Marshall - the "new" breed of WR...not a great route runner but has great hands...can disappear sometimes during games

RB - we didnt really have one


we werent close to being the Colts

You know nothing of Peyton Manning if you think he is quiet, and Marvin Harrison is humble.

You know that Marvin Harrison was involved in a shooting still being investigated, and that Peyton Manning was accused of sexually harassing a female trainer while @ Tenn right? You are comparing players who have yet to even touch their prime to 10+ year vets, which simply is not fair.

You guys will go to any length to justify the bs currently going on @ dove valley

colonelbeef
04-29-2009, 11:38 AM
Any coach can come in and utterly dismantle your team, and hire a bunch of new people to take their places. I think he has done some stupid things, and some good things.

But none of that matters. It's all about getting W's, nothing more or less. I'll appreciate him a lot more once we start winning games. He hasn't DONE anything yet.

I'll be happy to go back and claim he did know what he was doing all along, and even throw in a "All Hail McD!" chant, if he gets the job done down the road. It's a bit premature to be giving a guy that has 0 wins for us an appreciation thread. What if this combination of talent and coaches ends up being a complete bomb? What then?

Wait and see, I say.

Good post. All this thread really signifies is that Popps and the rest of anti-Cutler crew is along for the ride on McDaniels' nuts regardless of what has or will transpire.

summerdenver
04-29-2009, 11:46 AM
yep I guess he was smart enough to run Shanahans O but not this ass hats O ....nice keep coming up with this crap . I would of read past your first line but I don't read fail

I get that my attempt at sarcasm has failed miserably. However, don't give up at the first line and read the full post. You might even liike it. ;)

vancejohnson82
04-29-2009, 12:10 PM
You know nothing of Peyton Manning if you think he is quiet, and Marvin Harrison is humble.

You know that Marvin Harrison was involved in a shooting still being investigated, and that Peyton Manning was accused of sexually harassing a female trainer while @ Tenn right? You are comparing players who have yet to even touch their prime to 10+ year vets, which simply is not fair.

You guys will go to any length to justify the bs currently going on @ dove valley

You are reaching here.....the Marvin Harrison thing is over and he was never a suspect....and Peyton Manning may not be humble but he plays the game inside of the system...

When's the last time you saw Peyton Manning throw his defense under the bus? When's the last time you saw Marvin Harrison dancing after catching a 10 yard pass...

Please, the only people looking to "justify" themselves are the people who are clamoring for McDaniels head before a game is played....

The comparison to the Colts was stupid...I tried to be nice about it at first...but it was a dumb comparison, plain and simple

summerdenver
04-29-2009, 12:23 PM
When's the last time you saw Peyton Manning throw his defense under the bus?

You are really reaching here. Jay may not be the most likeable person around
but when did he ever throw the defense under the bus? Do you have any link of any of the statements he made to this affect?

TotallyScrewed
04-29-2009, 12:27 PM
That's a bunch of crap. Building a defense isn't about having high draft picks. It's about finding the right players. There are tons of good defenders on good defensive teams that aren't taken in the top 15 of the draft every year. You just need to understand how to evaluate defensive talent and develop it and that is something that more often than not Shanahan wasn't very good at.

I think what the poster was referring to was Top Talent in the first round; which is where all of the blue chip d-line picks are. I'm not defending Shanahan. His defense picks were for the most part poor or worse. But by your own standard, McDaniels is forfeiting...he doesn't want to take a chance on talent that may need time to develop...at least not in rounds 1-3.

I agree that during the Shanahan era (minus this last year or two) the draft was a joke and free-agency was a head slap.

Blueflame
04-29-2009, 12:33 PM
You are reaching here.....the Marvin Harrison thing is over and he was never a suspect....and Peyton Manning may not be humble but he plays the game inside of the system...

When's the last time you saw Peyton Manning throw his defense under the bus? When's the last time you saw Marvin Harrison dancing after catching a 10 yard pass...

Please, the only people looking to "justify" themselves are the people who are clamoring for McDaniels head before a game is played....

The comparison to the Colts was stupid...I tried to be nice about it at first...but it was a dumb comparison, plain and simple

I've seen Peyton Manning throw his O-line... and his kicker... under the bus.

vancejohnson82
04-29-2009, 12:35 PM
You are really reaching here. Jay may not be the most likeable person around
but when did he ever throw the defense under the bus? Do you have any link of any of the statements he made to this affect?

The following comes from Michael Silver's Morning Rush:

The San Diego Chargers had just won the AFC West title in resounding fashion, defeating the Broncos, 52-21, to earn the right to host the Indianapolis Colts in a first-round playoff game six days later, and Cutler stopped to answer an unambiguous question: Was it fair to conclude that the team he just played is for real?

ďThese guys?Ē the Pro Bowl quarterback asked, gesturing to the players celebrating behind him. ďSan Diego? No, I donít think so. I think Indyíll handle Ďem pretty good. We really canít stop anybody, and thatís the bottom line.Ē



and I don't even have a problem with it.....but Peyton never did that early on in his career when he had some ****ty defenses

TotallyScrewed
04-29-2009, 12:44 PM
no, you're missing the point of my argument here...

soemone above said CUtler, Champ and Goodman were the top three effective personalities on the team...

if those are our top 3 and we keep going 8-8, maybe they aren't THAT effective after all...

thats all im saying

Ever hear of the "weakest link theory"? Three strong links can't hold a bad chain together.

TotallyScrewed
04-29-2009, 12:46 PM
[QUOTE=vancejohnson82;2401726]no, you're missing the point of my argument here...

soemone above said CUtler, Champ and Goodman were the top three effective personalities on the team...

if those are our top 3 and we keep going 8-8, maybe they aren't THAT effective after all...

thats all im saying[/QUOTE

vancejohnson82
04-29-2009, 12:48 PM
[QUOTE=vancejohnson82;2401726]no, you're missing the point of my argument here...

soemone above said CUtler, Champ and Goodman were the top three effective personalities on the team...

if those are our top 3 and we keep going 8-8, maybe they aren't THAT effective after all...

thats all im saying[/QUOTE


we didnt have ONE weak link last year

summerdenver
04-29-2009, 01:01 PM
The following comes from Michael Silver's Morning Rush:

The San Diego Chargers had just won the AFC West title in resounding fashion, defeating the Broncos, 52-21, to earn the right to host the Indianapolis Colts in a first-round playoff game six days later, and Cutler stopped to answer an unambiguous question: Was it fair to conclude that the team he just played is for real?

ďThese guys?Ē the Pro Bowl quarterback asked, gesturing to the players celebrating behind him. ďSan Diego? No, I donít think so. I think Indyíll handle Ďem pretty good. We really canít stop anybody, and thatís the bottom line.Ē



and I don't even have a problem with it.....but Peyton never did that early on in his career when he had some ****ty defenses

Ok fair enough. I don't view it as a shot at our defense but at the same time I can see how others could interpret it that way.

TotallyScrewed
04-29-2009, 01:50 PM
The following comes from Michael Silver's Morning Rush:

The San Diego Chargers had just won the AFC West title in resounding fashion, defeating the Broncos, 52-21, to earn the right to host the Indianapolis Colts in a first-round playoff game six days later, and Cutler stopped to answer an unambiguous question: Was it fair to conclude that the team he just played is for real?

ďThese guys?Ē the Pro Bowl quarterback asked, gesturing to the players celebrating behind him. ďSan Diego? No, I donít think so. I think Indyíll handle Ďem pretty good. We really canít stop anybody, and thatís the bottom line.Ē

and I don't even have a problem with it.....but Peyton never did that early on in his career when he had some ****ty defenses

So now this thread moves onto "It's Cutler's fault!" Wow...surprise, surprise. But truth be told "that defense didn't stop anybody" and to say so is...perhaps not a rally the team cry but still truth.

I really wonder how the McD fans (at this point) will react if Powell becomes an elite player? Do you see the twist here since he's a Shanahan pick? It's humourous that Popps even points to him as another draft choice for McD's first season.

I also find it funny that if you're in the camp of "wait and see" that's as good as a "I'm all in". Popp you might want to consider the accuracy of your poll before you declare a landslide victory.

kamakazi_kal
04-29-2009, 02:25 PM
So now this thread moves onto "It's Cutler's fault!" Wow...surprise, surprise. But truth be told "that defense didn't stop anybody" and to say so is...perhaps not a rally the team cry but still truth.

I really wonder how the McD fans (at this point) will react if Powell becomes an elite player? Do you see the twist here since he's a Shanahan pick? It's humourous that Popps even points to him as another draft choice for McD's first season.

I also find it funny that if you're in the camp of "wait and see" that's as good as a "I'm all in". Popp you might want to consider the accuracy of your poll before you declare a landslide victory.

notice: common sense is not welcome in this thread :end notice

kamakazi_kal
04-29-2009, 02:29 PM
[QUOTE=vancejohnson82;2403157]

ďThese guys?Ē the Pro Bowl quarterback asked, gesturing to the players celebrating behind him. ďSan Diego? No, I donít think so. I think Indyíll handle Ďem pretty good. We really canít stop anybody, and thatís the bottom line.Ē
[QUOTE]

HA HA If that were McD making that statement it would be him holding people accountable, from cutler it's arrogant whining.

Popps
04-29-2009, 03:20 PM
I really wonder how the McD fans (at this point) will react if Powell becomes an elite player? Do you see the twist here since he's a Shanahan pick? It's humourous that Popps even points to him as another draft choice for McD's first season.

I also find it funny that if you're in the camp of "wait and see" that's as good as a "I'm all in". Popp you might want to consider the accuracy of your poll before you declare a landslide victory.

Wow, Totally Screwed... things not going so well for you?

Let me quickly mop up the **** you just left on the board...

Powell being a "free draft pick" is nothing more than an observation. It's one more player that will compete for a role at NT/DT. I'm not sure why your skirt is all blown up over this issue, or you're choosing to make this a Mike Shanahan mini-drama. It was a simple observation, and an accurate one.

Personally, if he succeeds... I'm happy. Why? I'm a Broncos fan. I'm not one of these "only on my terms" crybabies littering up this board. I rooted for Shanahan for 14 years and now I'll root for McDaniels. (Weird, huh?)


As for the accuracy of the poll... funny, all of you pouty-land types seem to feel the need to tell those you are optimistic that they have no right to be. It's as if you need people to be as miserable as you are.

How about just letting some fans be excited? Is it that painful for you?

GreatBronco16
04-29-2009, 05:18 PM
Come on dude don't let the big arm fool you. He was huge distraction and clearly lacked leadership skills. We are a better team even without a talented individual because we are a team now.

Why do you think we are inferior team than last year? did we loose any one important [layer? we are getting Champ back healthy and added boat load of talent why such gloom and doom?

I was in no way being serious. I was just giving the answer the Jay Cutler jungle nut hair swingers would have given you.

In no way do I think we are an inferior team compared to last year, and I can't wait to see this team on game day.

NYBronco
04-29-2009, 05:25 PM
Any coach can come in and utterly dismantle your team, and hire a bunch of new people to take their places. I think he has done some stupid things, and some good things.

But none of that matters. It's all about getting W's, nothing more or less. I'll appreciate him a lot more once we start winning games. He hasn't DONE anything yet.

I'll be happy to go back and claim he did know what he was doing all along, and even throw in a "All Hail McD!" chant, if he gets the job done down the road. It's a bit premature to be giving a guy that has 0 wins for us an appreciation thread. What if this combination of talent and coaches ends up being a complete bomb? What then?

Wait and see, I say.

Up until the "All Hail McD!" I seriously thought you were talking about Shanahan and all his defensive mastemindedness.

Gcver2ver3
04-29-2009, 05:48 PM
You are really reaching here. Jay may not be the most likeable person around
but when did he ever throw the defense under the bus? Do you have any link of any of the statements he made to this affect?

you're joking right?...


i have personally seen him throw the D under the bus during live interviews with the NFL Network and the Dan Patrick Show...

and that doesn't even include his infamous after game comment of the Chargers whoopin we took where he told the press that our defense can't stop anybody...

where you been?...

gyldenlove
04-29-2009, 06:57 PM
Wow, Totally Screwed... things not going so well for you?

Let me quickly mop up the **** you just left on the board...

Powell being a "free draft pick" is nothing more than an observation. It's one more player that will compete for a role at NT/DT. I'm not sure why your skirt is all blown up over this issue, or you're choosing to make this a Mike Shanahan mini-drama. It was a simple observation, and an accurate one.

Personally, if he succeeds... I'm happy. Why? I'm a Broncos fan. I'm not one of these "only on my terms" crybabies littering up this board. I rooted for Shanahan for 14 years and now I'll root for McDaniels. (Weird, huh?)


As for the accuracy of the poll... funny, all of you pouty-land types seem to feel the need to tell those you are optimistic that they have no right to be. It's as if you need people to be as miserable as you are.

How about just letting some fans be excited? Is it that painful for you?

I haven't agreed with you much the last couple of months, but here we do agree.

If Powell succeeds it is great, hell if Jarvis Moss suddenly wakes up tomorrow playing like Reggie White it would be amazing, if Alphonso Smith comes in and plays like Champ 5 years ago or Richard Quinn turns out to be one of the most dominant TEs ever it would rock.

It doesn't matter if a player is a Shanahan player or a Mcdaniels player, they are Broncos and hence I will cheer for success. I don't like what Mcdaniels have done so far and I am not sold on the direction the team is going, but I will cheer for success none the less.

A few people at least seem to have gotten so invested in anti-Mcdaniels or anti-preMcdaniels that they have lost sight of what being a Broncos fan is about. Hell, last year I knew the defense sucked and I think most of us here did, but did we stop cheering for them when they took the field? Being a fan is not about not criticizing the team, it is not about drinking the kool-aid and it is not about believing the team to be without fault because we know that is not the case, it is about cheering for the team and hoping they win and have success any way possible.

We need TC to roll around so we can get some hype going and get excited about the team again - it can't come fast enough.

gunns
04-29-2009, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by cmhargrove
6. I believe we will score more points than we did last year.


Who cares? We could have scored more points last year and it wouldn't have meant a thing when the opposing team is scoring even more points.

I am developing my off season optimism. I don't agree with McDaniels seeming focus on offense, and I don't agree with his trading our first away. But then I rarely have agreed with Shanahan in the off season on everything in the past 10 years. I am absolutely thrilled with McDaniels focus on the safety position. I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst (and that came from Shanahan).

~Crash~
04-29-2009, 07:14 PM
Who cares? We could have scored more points last year and it wouldn't have meant a thing when the opposing team is scoring even more points.

I am developing my off season optimism. I don't agree with McDaniels seeming focus on offense, and I don't agree with his trading our first away. But then I rarely have agreed with Shanahan in the off season on everything in the past 10 years. I am absolutely thrilled with McDaniels focus on the safety position. I'm hoping for the best and preparing for the worst (and that came from Shanahan).

oh you are full of **** you are his bigest fan

~Crash~
04-29-2009, 07:16 PM
NFLBRONCO come again ?

~Crash~
04-29-2009, 07:22 PM
also I see plenty of regulars like my self saying no way in hell I vote in popps so called the world is great poll . popps has and does not vote in polls that he does not win in .

hey popps you still a Republican something tells me you just might cave in what party you belong to. Come on man it is not hard to lose ever now and then .

Popps
04-29-2009, 07:35 PM
also I see plenty of regulars like my self saying no way in hell I vote in popps so called the world is great poll . popps has and does not vote in polls that he does not win in .

hey popps you still a Republican something tells me you just might cave in what party you belong to. Come on man it is not hard to lose ever now and then .

Dude, honestly... try to lay off the sauce before posting. Honestly, you can't even make sense of that ****.

What poll do you want me to vote on that I (apparently) haven't? Let me make you happy. Post a link. I want you to feel better.

Republican? :spit:

Now, that's funny.

Popps
04-29-2009, 07:44 PM
A few people at least seem to have gotten so invested in anti-Mcdaniels or anti-preMcdaniels that they have lost sight of what being a Broncos fan is about. Hell, last year I knew the defense sucked and I think most of us here did, but did we stop cheering for them when they took the field? Being a fan is not about not criticizing the team, it is not about drinking the kool-aid and it is not about believing the team to be without fault because we know that is not the case, it is about cheering for the team and hoping they win and have success any way possible.

We need TC to roll around so we can get some hype going and get excited about the team again - it can't come fast enough.

Exactly. I think as the season draws closer, most reasonable fans are going to find it harder and harder to continue to fabricate some kind of grudge against the new staff. But, those same people are also geared up to go ape-**** at the first sign of trouble. (And there will be some, as we rebuild, of course.)

But, look at the poll results. Most fans around here are optimistic. It's a great time to be a Broncos fan, imo.

~Crash~
04-29-2009, 07:47 PM
Dude, honestly... try to lay off the sauce before posting. Honestly, you can't even make sense of that ****.

What poll do you want me to vote on that I (apparently) haven't? Let me make you happy. Post a link. I want you to feel better.

Republican? :spit:

Now, that's funny.

so now you are a Democrat nice .

~Crash~
04-29-2009, 08:03 PM
this is the same guy that was one of the biggest Bush fans ... by the ways I am not a democrat well I am not a republican no more either but popps is full of crap I guess it is his way of believing in what he thinks is control . I still would vote Bush into office by the way again gladly he got that we were in the right I have a problem with big government .

I am now an idependent and am pissed at both partys

~Crash~
04-29-2009, 08:14 PM
I would bet 50 % of you ****ing pussy have me on iggy good for you .


we have become the ****ing raiders



our owner I am am ****ing old I cannot remember.

if crazy ass AL said this poopsie would of put this on his tag line !

get it right we look really silly right now . could we win sure but not ****ing likely since we got a crazy ass senile ass owner .

Popps
04-29-2009, 08:15 PM
O.K. boss.

Yikes.

bronco610
04-29-2009, 11:58 PM
I would bet 50 % of you ****ing p***Y have me on iggy good for you .


we have become the ****ing raiders



our owner I am am ****ing old I cannot remember.

if crazy ass AL said this poopsie would of put this on his tag line !

get it right we look really silly right now . could we win sure but not ****ing likely since we got a crazy ass senile ass owner .

??? ??? ???

Odysseus
04-30-2009, 12:03 AM
O.K. boss.

Yikes.

Great thread. Let me know when this thing fully melts down! :spit:

Kaylore
04-30-2009, 12:07 AM
I would bet 50 % of you ****ing p***Y have me on iggy good for you .


we have become the ****ing raiders



our owner I am am ****ing old I cannot remember.

if crazy ass AL said this poopsie would of put this on his tag line !

get it right we look really silly right now . could we win sure but not ****ing likely since we got a crazy ass senile ass owner .
<img src="http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=15709&stc=1&d=1147936819">

Popps
04-30-2009, 12:15 AM
Great thread. Let me know when this thing fully melts down! :spit:

People have given it their best shot.

There's actually some decent conversation peppered in here, too. (Believe it or not.)

I just love the poll results. Fans are getting behind this team again, and despite the usual suspects that will be looking/hoping for failure around here, I think Broncos fans are going to have a renewed spirit this coming season.

I remember some of these dopes saying that the fans were going to strike... not renew season tickets, blah... blah... blah.

They don't know Broncos fans very well, I guess.

fontaine
04-30-2009, 03:57 AM
I was really hoping that McDaniels would show something in this draft to really go after the front 7, but the only thing we got there is a LBer who's raw and still 2 years away from making an impact.

In his defense, McDaniels did say that there was no point drafting front 7 guys who you feel wouldn't make the team in an average/weak draft.

But if that was the case then why not use the picks/$$$$ for players like Peppers, Free agents etc that would help the front 7? It just looks like this guy is just working day to day rather than really having foresight and plans to get this defense where it needs to be in two/three years.

Pretty disapointing.

Broncomutt
04-30-2009, 05:37 AM
I'm hoping McDaniels is going to be the type of coach who isn't afraid to turn up the heat when he has a lead. Throttle his opponents. Run the score up. Piss everyone else in the league off.

When he has a team down, he step on their necks.

Unless we were playing the Raiders, I haven't seen that in a long time.

colonelbeef
04-30-2009, 06:11 AM
You are reaching here.....the Marvin Harrison thing is over and he was never a suspect....and Peyton Manning may not be humble but he plays the game inside of the system...

When's the last time you saw Peyton Manning throw his defense under the bus? When's the last time you saw Marvin Harrison dancing after catching a 10 yard pass...

Please, the only people looking to "justify" themselves are the people who are clamoring for McDaniels head before a game is played....

The comparison to the Colts was stupid...I tried to be nice about it at first...but it was a dumb comparison, plain and simple

I've seen Peyton Manning throw his OL and kicker under the bus multiple times, and I'm sure he would have thrown the D under as well, if they were to blame.

You just don't know anything about Peyton Manning and have chosen to tow the company line on Jay Cutler. I'm sure it's the easy thing to do, but it is not an objective view whatsoever.

TailgateNut
04-30-2009, 06:23 AM
, but it is not an objective view whatsoever.


....and yours are?ROFL!

Dukes
04-30-2009, 06:45 AM
I think people will be surprised by how competitive we are. Our record may not show it, but this team has some talent... and I guarantee you there's going to be a different attitude out there on Sundays.

I agree, I'd be VERY surprised if we are blown out like the dozen or so time the past two seasons.

TheReverend
04-30-2009, 06:47 AM
I do love that this thread is clearly just baiting and that it's almost to ten pages.

So I will help with another post. :)

vancejohnson82
04-30-2009, 07:11 AM
I've seen Peyton Manning throw his OL and kicker under the bus multiple times, and I'm sure he would have thrown the D under as well, if they were to blame.

You just don't know anything about Peyton Manning and have chosen to tow the company line on Jay Cutler. I'm sure it's the easy thing to do, but it is not an objective view whatsoever.


I'm seriously sick of the elitist **** you post at times.....Obviously, as a football fan I know nothing of Peyton Manning apparently...thats such a crock of ****....

Peyton Manning is the consummate "team" player...in post game interviews he uses words like "we" and "us" while Jay Cutler storms out or refuses to acknowledge that it is a team game...which I attribute to being young and confident....but we arent allowed to have opinions that shade a little bit to the left or right on this board anymore, so you automatically tell me that I'm "towing the Jay Cutler company line".....whatever the hell that means in this context...

My problem with the way the team WAS, happens to be that I saw it becomign more of a "ME" first type of organization...from Marshall trying to pull out the black glove in a tight game with two minutes left, to Cutler throwing the defense under the bus, to the defense dancing for 30 seconds after giving up anything less than 10 yards, to our punters and RBs getting arrested for pot and steroids....it was a very bad direction for the organization

And I didnt agree with the firing of Shanny but I support the coach we have now and I like the attitude he's bringing with him....if that turns you off to the Broncos or him, maybe thats a good thing because its probably turning away the players that I don't want here

but you're right, dude....I don't watch football and I don't know anythign about Peyton Manning.....when you're done icing your elbow (thats obviously sore from patting yourself on the back) please enlighten me and let me know how Peyton Manning isnt a team player

And for the record, if anyone has the right to call out guys on their team, its a veteran like Peyton Manning...a guy who paid his dues and earned respect in the locker room and around the league....

TailgateNut
04-30-2009, 07:15 AM
I'm seriously sick of the elitist **** you post at times.....Obviously, as a football fan I know nothing of Peyton Manning apparently...thats such a crock of ****....

Peyton Manning is the consummate "team" player...in post game interviews he uses words like "we" and "us" while Jay Cutler storms out or refuses to acknowledge that it is a team game...which I attribute to being young and confident....but we arent allowed to have opinions that shade a little bit to the left or right on this board anymore, so you automatically tell me that I'm "towing the Jay Cutler company line".....whatever the hell that means in this context...

My problem with the way the team WAS, happens to be that I saw it becomign more of a "ME" first type of organization...from Marshall trying to pull out the black glove in a tight game with two minutes left, to Cutler throwing the defense under the bus, to the defense dancing for 30 seconds after giving up anything less than 10 yards, to our punters and RBs getting arrested for pot and steroids....it was a very bad direction for the organization

And I didnt agree with the firing of Shanny but I support the coach we have now and I like the attitude he's bringing with him....if that turns you off to the Broncos or him, maybe thats a good thing because its probably turning away the players that I don't want here

but you're right, dude....I don't watch football and I don't know anythign about Peyton Manning.....when you're done icing your elbow (thats obviously sore from patting yourself on the back) please enlighten me and let me know how Peyton Manning isnt a team player

And for the record, if anyone has the right to call out guys on their team, its a veteran like Peyton Manning...a guy who paid his dues and earned respect in the locker room and around the league....

Great post.

Especially the breakdown of the direction our team has been taking the past few years.
..and an honorable mention for:"when you're done icing your elbow (thats obviously sore from patting yourself on the back)" :rofl:

TheReverend
04-30-2009, 07:19 AM
I like the mic'd up clip where Peyton and Saturday almost get into a fight and their old LT (before Ugoh... recently retired, was awesome) had to drag Peyton away.

People need to just understand it's a competitive game of MEN and that competitive people get into it. It happens.

It says NOTHING about Peyton Manning OR Jay Cutler other than they give a ****.

baja
04-30-2009, 07:48 AM
I would bet 50 % of you ****ing p***Y have me on iggy good for you .


we have become the ****ing raiders



our owner I am am ****ing old I cannot remember.

if crazy ass AL said this poopsie would of put this on his tag line !

get it right we look really silly right now . could we win sure but not ****ing likely since we got a crazy ass senile ass owner .

Ignore! Never you are too much fun.

TailgateNut
04-30-2009, 07:58 AM
I would bet 50 % of you ****ing p***Y have me on iggy good for you .


we have become the ****ing raiders



our owner I am am ****ing old I cannot remember.

if crazy ass AL said this poopsie would of put this on his tag line !

get it right we look really silly right now . could we win sure but not ****ing likely since we got a crazy ass senile ass owner .

Your posts are simply AMAZING.:spit:

Lay off the crack, it damages the gray matter!

Punisher
04-30-2009, 08:51 AM
http://thm-a04.yimg.com/image/65443437f27ce64a
http://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/32fb3dc8389cdbb6
http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/2372da2e038e8d94

TailgateNut
04-30-2009, 08:54 AM
http://thm-a04.yimg.com/image/65443437f27ce64a
http://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/32fb3dc8389cdbb6
http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/2372da2e038e8d94

and????

Punisher
04-30-2009, 08:55 AM
I would bet 50 % of you ****ing p***Y have me on iggy good for you .


we have become the ****ing raiders



our owner I am am ****ing old I cannot remember.

if crazy ass AL said this poopsie would of put this on his tag line !

get it right we look really silly right now . could we win sure but not ****ing likely since we got a crazy ass senile ass owner .

<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FT4YbO_1mvA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FT4YbO_1mvA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>

Punisher
04-30-2009, 09:02 AM
and????

Oh i thought this was an Appreciation thread :~ohyah!:

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
04-30-2009, 11:37 AM
Joshua McDaniels is one day going to lead our Broncos to Super Sunday just like Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan, the "Promised Land".

epicSocialism4tw
04-30-2009, 12:50 PM
http://thm-a04.yimg.com/image/65443437f27ce64a
http://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/32fb3dc8389cdbb6
http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/2372da2e038e8d94

Thats the "um...I dont...uh...let me see...well...its like this...you uh...um..." look.

Dude looks like he's trying really hard to get a couple of neurons to depolarize.

epicSocialism4tw
04-30-2009, 12:52 PM
Joshua McDaniels is one day going to lead our Broncos to Super Sunday just like Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan, the "Promised Land".

Hold up there, brotha.

You may want to think about cutting back on the Red Bull.

BroncoBuff
04-30-2009, 01:20 PM
I "appreciate" that Josh is an excellent offensive mind.

I "appreciate" that Josh's youthful exuberance is infectious - I love it.


But I also "appreciate" that Josh's fingerprints are all over the losses of two of the three most effective people in our organization.

Therefore I "appreciate" that this kid has written alotta big checks.

We'll see.

Odysseus
04-30-2009, 03:09 PM
People have given it their best shot.

There's actually some decent conversation peppered in here, too. (Believe it or not.)

I just love the poll results. Fans are getting behind this team again, and despite the usual suspects that will be looking/hoping for failure around here, I think Broncos fans are going to have a renewed spirit this coming season.

I remember some of these dopes saying that the fans were going to strike... not renew season tickets, blah... blah... blah.

They don't know Broncos fans very well, I guess.

I dumped my season tickets. I don't have any need to have beer, barf or bull**** on me. I am tired of paying for pre season slop. I am tired of expensive parking lots, crowds, lines and serious drop in IQ of the fans. The food outside the box seats tastes like a virgin sacrifice. The people in the box seats don't care about the fans, team or game. The South stands where I have sat for years is dead. It was a matter of time.

I don't know what Josh is going to do. He's got my attention. I want to see if he is smarter than his critics or if he's an unproven arrogant idiot who flames and dies hard. I think it comes down to does this team win. If the team wins any flaws on his part will be forgiven. Remember how we adored Cutler so much when he came here? Now we abhor him? Why? How did he change? It's the same guy. I think he's a decent enough guy. I do not fault him for his position. I am waiting to see his team and see what they look like. It doesn't matter what we talk about. It is all speculation until spring training. When it's spring training than it's focused speculation. I want to see what this guy has.

TailgateNut
05-01-2009, 08:08 AM
I dumped my season tickets. I don't have any need to have beer, barf or bull**** on me. I am tired of paying for pre season slop. I am tired of expensive parking lots, crowds, lines and serious drop in IQ of the fans. The food outside the box seats tastes like a virgin sacrifice. The people in the box seats don't care about the fans, team or game. The South stands where I have sat for years is dead. It was a matter of time.

I don't know what Josh is going to do. He's got my attention. I want to see if he is smarter than his critics or if he's an unproven arrogant idiot who flames and dies hard. I think it comes down to does this team win. If the team wins any flaws on his part will be forgiven. Remember how we adored Cutler so much when he came here? Now we abhor him? Why? How did he change? It's the same guy. I think he's a decent enough guy. I do not fault him for his position. I am waiting to see his team and see what they look like. It doesn't matter what we talk about. It is all speculation until spring training. When it's spring training than it's focused speculation. I want to see what this guy has.


Let's see. You dumped your season tix, complaining of all types of "issues", but to my recollection I've never heard of you attending any games.

HMMMM, interesting!

Rohirrim
05-01-2009, 08:32 AM
Joshua McDaniels is one day going to lead our Broncos to Super Sunday just like Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan, the "Promised Land".

You mean he'll march us into the neighboring country, wipe out everybody living there, and steal all their property? When do we start? ;D

ScottXray
05-19-2009, 08:53 PM
You mean he'll march us into the neighboring country, wipe out everybody living there, and steal all their property? When do we start? ;D


Hilarious! Hilarious!

If only the Broncos would do that! Steal the ball, Rape their women and give someone else a beat down they never forget.

As far as the new coach, and what I said earlier in the thread. Shanny left the defensive cupboard bare. Face it ..we had no talent on that side of the ball, and it seemed he thought we were ok, if he could just score more. But he never really got anything out of that impressive offense he put together. Some how he never got it to gel. Maybe the gods had it in for him what with all the injuries. Keeping Slowik was a maajor mistake.

With the schedule that we have , if the Broncos went 8-8 again and shanny was still the coach, how many would say he did a good job, what with all the personnel changes and the new defensive players and coaches and scheme changes? We'll never know. He's not here anymore.

And yes Micky has stepped on his dick some with personnel decisions (or lack thereof) and so his Leadership is open to question. The Cutler thing went down , but I think Jay wanted to leave early on, and he wasn't too upfront with the team about it. Personally I think it was going to happen no matter what Micky did. Jay is a stubborn person.

Draft....I was WTF when we kept taking offensive players. And the trade of our first next year was a real F*** up. But the UDFAs we got may be part of the answer, and we did pick up some players that will help in FA.

As I said , I'm not all in. Overall ,wins will be the cure for what ails us. So I'll wait and see, and if we go 8-8 I won't be disappointed or calling for heads. This is not an endorsement of Micky, just a wait and see position.

Popps
10-13-2009, 12:44 PM
.
You can all pull this thread up and blast me with it in a couple of years if things go south, but I believe he and the staff are making great strides to improve this team.

Props to him for being a guy who can go out and do what he needs to do. Proper decisions are not always popular ones, and championships aren't won without a few feelings getting hurt along the way.

This isn't about blindly supporting the new staff, but about giving them a little leeway to put their plan into motion, which I can see taking shape. Since the off-season began, the new staff has...

-Signed or drafted over 30 players to improve this team, more than 15 of them on defense.)
-Signed an all-world S and team leader for the defense.
-Brought in a DC with a history as a head coach and a successful coordinator.
-Landed the best RB in college football.
-Landed the best DE/OLB prospect in college football.
-Prioritized a team philosophy over individual, self-serving attitudes.
-Prioritized character players.
-Not only made a verbal commitment to improving special teams, but went out and acquired players to achieve those improvements.
-Conducted a highly targeted draft, adding extra picks now, to develop better players, sooner.
-Rid the defense of the dead weight that had no business of being out on the field.
-Created an atmosphere where players know they're going to compete for a position, no mater what their name is.
-Generated a genuine excitement in the players that is almost tangible and clearly evident when listening to young players like Dumervil and Marshall.

It's been a bumpy ride, but this staff has a highly focused plan and as a Broncos fan, I'm 100% behind them. McDaniels came from a culture of winning and has a track record as a coordinator that speaks for itself, much like our last great head coach.

Flame away, but I'm optimistic.

"...(When) I say we're going to change, I don't think anybody knows what that means. Including some of our players. Yet, they're going to find out. Then once they see us be successful from one week to the next, they're going to say, 'This works.' "

-Broncos Coach, Josh McDaniels

Popps
10-13-2009, 12:45 PM
Loved that quote then... love it more now.

Popps
10-13-2009, 12:50 PM
I just hope Nolan can do more with this defensive front 7 than Slowick was able to, considering it's about the same group of guys.

:spit:

Awesome.

BroncoInSkinland
10-13-2009, 12:53 PM
I would have liked one more on day one, and at least one preferably two on day two. It's almost criminal that we will now be wasting not only Champs talents, but Dawkins as well with no pass rush again. Maybe you are right and one piece, a scheme overhaul and the proper coaching will produce pressure, but I highly doubt it.

You were right, I was wrong, and I am VERY glad we aren't wasting Champ and Dawkins. Overall the line is doing very well, but Doom specifically deserves mention. I never thought he would be able to generate this kind of pressure from OLB. I definately have some crow to eat here.

Cito Pelon
10-13-2009, 12:56 PM
If this thread is to be "pulled up" at a later date, then first - I want to say "hi" to myself in the future. "Hey self, you rock! And, you were probably right about this prediction."

That being said, I believe...

1. We are on the right track. Barring major injuries, we could definitely be the 2010 version of the Miami Dolphins. In all reality, that means I think we could sneak up on people and still be competing for the division in the last 2 games of the season.
Our biggest obstacle is still the Chargers, they have the potential for a great year with Merriman returning.
2. I think we have already dumped most of the "dead weight" of the team, and TC will be intense. Everyone competes, no one is safe, best players stay.
4. I think that at least five players from this draft class will still be on the team in four years. Still playing important roles for the team.
5. I believe that by the end of the year, Knowshon Moreno will be one of the three leading candidates for OROY.
6. I believe we will score more points than we did last year.
7. I don't believe 100% in our QB's but the entire team will be getting better while we figure this out. The run game is more important to me, and we have taken that one head on.
8. I believe Josh McDaniels is righting the ship, and the next three years our record will be better than 50/50 (like the last three years).
9. I miss Shanahan, and I miss Cutler, but I feel like we are getting better as a team.
10. Is that specific enough?

That was pretty good.

Cito Pelon
10-13-2009, 12:58 PM
I agree. I can't seem to rally myself around this guy. I agree that it was time for change and was on board for the most part when Shanahan was let go. I know most of us were screaming for a D-minded coach and Pat hires a young O-minded coach. Then I thought, well, if this guy can surround him with a decent staff. I think he's done a knockout job with assembling his staff. Then FA started. Brian Dawkins is the only key free agent I think will contribute. Our weakness was D-line and linebacker - has that even been looked at this offseason? The Cutler fiasco has been hashed and re-hashed but IMO, McDaniels did more than his share to mishandle the situation. Then the draft. I liked the Moreno pick and the Ayers pick. Trading a 1st rounder for 2nd round talent was a head scratcher. I can see that we needed to address secondary with Champ really the only back there worth a darn, but to not address 2 most glaring needs anywhere in the draft just doesn't make sense.

I'm not a negative nelly by any means but I just can't find a single reason for optimism heading into next season. Broncos will always be my team and I'll have that passion but for the first time in a long time, I have zero expectations for the team.

That was not so good.

BroncoInSkinland
10-13-2009, 01:01 PM
In keeping with the spirit of this thread thanks to McDaniels for getting us a top RB prospect. I can't wait to see what a true 1st round RB working with Turner behind our incredible line looks like. RBBC has been adequate for us and let us address other areas (at least when 7 of them don't get injured in the same season), but this has the potential to provide an offense punch on par with what I believe Cutler/Marshal/Royal were capable of. Great move, and I will save my b****ing for other more appropriate threads.

On the other hand, I liked Moreno from the second we drafted him, I would have gone another direction with the first pick, but I was never down on McDaniels for this pick. Knowshon rocks. ;D

Cito Pelon
10-13-2009, 01:32 PM
You were right, I was wrong, and I am VERY glad we aren't wasting Champ and Dawkins. Overall the line is doing very well, but Doom specifically deserves mention. I never thought he would be able to generate this kind of pressure from OLB. I definately have some crow to eat here.

The beauty of this D is they keep their assignments. When NE came to town they were gonna neutralize the outside passrush. They did that, so Denver didn't panic. They didn't go nuts trying to sack Brady, they just kept him in the pocket. Brady does a lot of damage sliding around, especially to his left. Elvis didn't try to beat Light on the outside rush, he kept contain mostly.

Popps
10-13-2009, 03:06 PM
On the other hand, I liked Moreno from the second we drafted him, I would have gone another direction with the first pick, but I was never down on McDaniels for this pick. Knowshon rocks. ;D

McD deserves a few props for Buckhalter, too. He took a lot of flak for the signing (why, I'm not sure) and that guy has been a steady performer for us.

BroncoInSkinland
10-13-2009, 04:38 PM
McD deserves a few props for Buckhalter, too. He took a lot of flak for the signing (why, I'm not sure) and that guy has been a steady performer for us.

Yeah, Buckhalter has been very good for us, I was pretty neutral on him, I have quiet a few Eagles fans as friends, and was hyped over Dawkins from the get go. They sold me on Bucky as a good RB, but I thought he might have injury issues. I don't think I talked much about him in preseason, he's been a lot more useful than I thought he would be though.

Popps
10-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Yeah, Buckhalter has been very good for us, I was pretty neutral on him, I have quiet a few Eagles fans as friends, and was hyped over Dawkins from the get go. They sold me on Bucky as a good RB, but I thought he might have injury issues. I don't think I talked much about him in preseason, he's been a lot more useful than I thought he would be though.

He's got nice burst through the hole for a guy who's had like 4 leg-replacements.

I hope he's back to 100% soon. Things could get a little scary if Moreno went down and Hillis still in the doghouse to some extent.

kamakazi_kal
10-13-2009, 06:02 PM
C-buck was always good in Philly. Injury prone yes. In philly he was always an great fill in for Westbrook and production never fell off much. That says allot about the guy.

Cito Pelon
10-13-2009, 06:07 PM
He's got nice burst through the hole for a guy who's had like 4 leg-replacements.

I hope he's back to 100% soon. Things could get a little scary if Moreno went down and Hillis still in the doghouse to some extent.

Hillis will step up if needed. He has the blahs right now because he wanted to be featured. He's moping a little bit I think.

kamakazi_kal
10-13-2009, 06:22 PM
Joshua McDaniels is one day going to lead our Broncos to Super Sunday just like Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan, the "Promised Land".

Man..... what is it with you. I mean, proud to be Jewish .... we get it.

Popps
10-13-2009, 09:23 PM
Hillis will step up if needed. He has the blahs right now because he wanted to be featured. He's moping a little bit I think.

You would have thought this to be a guy McDaniels could really work wonders with, given his talents. I'd say at this stage, you have to assume there's more than meets the eye with this situation, and at least SOME form of the rumors about his coachability are showing to be true.

Hopefully he'll overcome it. He's incredibly talented.

Popps
10-19-2009, 10:00 PM
Hey Josh,



Thanks again.

:thumbsup: