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Atlas
04-27-2009, 07:20 PM
AFC WEST

SoCals link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-09afcdraftgrades042709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Denver Broncos
Picks: RB Knowshon Moreno, LB Robert Ayers, CB Alphonso Smith, CB Darcel McBath, TE Richard Quinn, S David Bruton, G Seth Olsen, WR Kenny McKinley, QB Tom Brandstater, C Blake Schlueter.
Positive: Moreno is the best all-around back in the draft.
Negative: Not enough help on the defensive front.
Bottom line: D.
It’s hard to argue with the selection of Moreno, who is a terrific player. But you have to wonder what the Broncos are thinking when they take Moreno after signing running backs LaMont Jordan, Correll Buckhalter and J.J. Arrington earlier this offseason in free agency. Sure, the Broncos were ravaged by injury last season at that position, but they worked to fix it already. Considering the needs the Broncos had on the defensive line, not doing more there is highly questionable. Also, giving up a first-round pick in 2010 for the right to get Alphonso Smith could really backfire in a serious way, taking away many of the gains the team made by trading QB Jay Cutler earlier this month.

Kansas City Chiefs
Picks: DE Tyson Jackson, DT Alex Magee, CB Donald Washington, OL Colin Brown, WR Quentin Lawrence, RB Javarris Williams, TE Jake O’Connell, K Ryan Succop.
Positives: Jackson and Magee.
Negative: Needed some skill position help for Matt Cassel.
Bottom line: A-.
New Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli turned his first three picks into key foundation players with the selections of Jackson, Magee and by trading for Cassel at the start of free agency. One thing Pioli learned well from New England’s Belichick is to use your top picks on talented big men like Jackson, who is a carbon copy of Richard Seymour (the No. 6 overall pick in the 2001 draft) and then build around those guys. Add Jackson and Magee to Glenn Dorsey from the 2008 draft and suddenly you have the makings of a monster line. Get a few linebackers to go with it and the Chiefs stand to have a terrific defense by 2010.



Oakland Raiders
Picks: WR Darrius Heyward-Bey, S Michael Mitchell, DE Matt Shaughnessy, WR Louis Murphy, DE Slade Norris, DE Stryker Sulak, TE Brandon Myers.
Positives: Speed with Heyward-Bey and Mitchell.
Negatives: Two gigantic reaches with Heyward-Bey and Mitchell.
Bottom line: F.
This draft is another cry for help by the Raiders as they keep taking players based on outdated theories about what works in the NFL. While wide receivers and defensive backs are still important, they must be complete players. Neither Heyward-Bey nor Mitchell are anything close to complete. At best, Heyward-Bey was ranked as the No. 3 receiver in the draft by most qualified analysts and should have been drafted somewhere in the 20s, not at No. 7 overall as the first receiver. Likewise, Mitchell was considered a borderline prospect, someone who should have gone in the sixth or seventh round. Furthermore, this was the eighth time in the past nine years that the Raiders have used a first- or second-round pick on a defensive back. They wouldn’t have to do that if they would pick good ones.



San Diego Chargers
Picks: DE/LB Larry English, G Louis Vasquez, DT Vaughn Martin, G Tyronne Green, RB Gartrell Johnson, CB Brandon Hughes, S Kevin Ellison, WR Demetrius Byrd.
Positives: English, Vazquez, Martin.
Negative: Didn’t get top-end running back.
Bottom line: B.
English is a small-college player with big-time pass-rush skills, which the Chargers need after not having linebacker Shawne Merriman last season. Merriman is expected to come back this season, but may not get all of the explosiveness back from what he had prior to his knee injury. Therefore, English may have to be ready sooner than later. Vasquez, Martin and Green are the type of big-body guys the Chargers like on their interior lines and Martin should step right in to replace departed Igor Olshansky. However, the Chargers were really hoping for a shot at Georgia running back Knowshon Moreno, who was taken at No. 12 by Denver, four picks ahead of the Chargers. Moreno was going to be the guy to step in after LaDainian Tomlinson left.

The MVPlaya
04-27-2009, 07:30 PM
Same ole, same ole...so because we didn't decide to draft defensive players we didn't like to fit our needs, we get a D. Broncos are the only team in the NFL that would probably ever get a D draft grade with 2 first round picks because of haters.

Ok.

Atlas
04-27-2009, 07:35 PM
McDaniels, Broncos Have Dismal 1st Day
Posted: Apr 25th 2009 9:45PM ET by Josh Alper (RSS feed)
Filed Under: Broncos, AFC West, NFL Draft

17 COMMENTS
Just after the first round ended, FanHouse's Will Brinson worked up a list of the five biggest mistakes of the first 32 picks. Number two with a bullet was the Broncos' decision to choose Georgia running back Knowshon Moreno with the 12th overall pick. Moreno is talented, but he went too early and he failed to address the biggest needs on the Bronco team.

So it was a rough start for Brian Xanders and Josh McDaniels, the new G.M. and coach of the Broncos. Unfortunately, the Broncos were just getting warmed up. The first day of the first McDaniels/Xanders draft was full of questionable moves, and could wind up making 2010's draft another day to forget.

Just after the first round ended, FanHouse's Will Brinson worked up a list of the five biggest mistakes of the first 32 picks. Number two with a bullet was the Broncos' decision to choose Georgia running back Knowshon Moreno with the 12th overall pick. Moreno is talented, but he went too early and he failed to address the biggest needs on the Bronco team.

So it was a rough start for Brian Xanders and Josh McDaniels, the new G.M. and coach of the Broncos. Unfortunately, the Broncos were just getting warmed up. The first day of the first McDaniels/Xanders draft was full of questionable moves, and could wind up making 2010's draft another day to forget.

They made a better choice with the 18th pick of the first round. Tennessee's Robert Ayers may have had only one good half out of four college seasons, but he's an impressive athlete who looks like a good fit as a defensive end in their new 3-4 defense. Filling out the front seven of that unit was a must for the Broncos if they hope to contend for anything more than the first overall pick next season.

Of course, they'll need the Bears to crash and burn to actually make such a selection. In a move that qualifies as one of the worst day-one decisions of all, the Broncos dealt their 2010 first-round pick to the Seahawks for the chance to select Wake Forest CB Alphonso Smith. For a team with a new quarterback, new defensive scheme and new front office to deal next year's first-round pick it had better be for a difference making player.

Atlas
04-27-2009, 07:38 PM
Denver Broncos: GRADE: C
Knowshon Moreno is a good running back and Robert Ayers has excellent ability. Alphonso Smith was one of my favorite defensive players to watch in college, but I don’t agree with trading a future No. 1 pick for the rights to pick him. Richard Quinn was selected a little too high for a one-dimensional blocking tight end. David Bruton is an OK player and so is Seth Olsen.

Atlas
04-27-2009, 07:41 PM
Denver Broncos - C-
The Broncos had a golden opportunity to rebuild one of the worst defenses in the league. But they missed it. I like the players that they picked up with their top three. But, again, I don't think that they did enough to address their areas of need. Kenny McKinley was a good pickup in Round 5. But I think they could have had Brian Orakpo and Knowshon Moreno, and then come back with two of the following - Rey Maualuga, Ron Brace, Clint Sintim, William Moore or Sen'Derrick Marks and taken that defense up a notch. They didn't and that was a mistake.

Atlas
04-27-2009, 07:43 PM
Grade: C-



Comment: A franchise gone amuck. Alienating Jay Cutler, a towering talent, to a degree that he had to be sacrificed was bad enough, but then in the draft the club chose to disregard its defensive ills and began with Knowshon Moreno, a running back. He's good, but he isn't going to be tackling anybody. In the second round, the Broncos surrendered their first-round selection next year in order to move up and identify Alphonso Smith, a DB. Curious.

Finger Roll
04-27-2009, 07:59 PM
who cares. Nobody knows how the players in this years draft will turn out anyway. Grading teams draft is comical at this point.

NYBronco
04-27-2009, 08:01 PM
The low draft grades don't surprise me because McDaniels and Xanders have much to prove, they are new and unproven, a mystery.

Reading through all these "experts" (many experienced) analysis I have to wonder what exactly are they grading. Are they grading the potential quality of the player or the coach/GM that selected them? Do they really understand why the picks were made? Do they really care?

I read one draft analysis where Denver was given a Z-. WTF is that all about? I take it as someone who doesn't understand the method behind the "madness" or simply someone who was offended by the Cutler eventual trade and the way it was handled. Either way (or any other way) to grade a Z- is childish.

ro_50
04-27-2009, 08:05 PM
We live in a world of instant gratification where these draft pundits (most of them are not informative either) give out grades to the NFL Draft EVEN BEFORE they even participate in minicamp.

cutthemdown
04-27-2009, 08:05 PM
The get the low grades because it wasn't what experts expected. If they give it a good grade it's like admitting that they were wrong.

If these experts were really that good they would be working for NFL teams.

broncosteven
04-27-2009, 08:06 PM
Atlas, didn't you know Homer mode is back on and set to full?

Personally I am waiting until I see execution on the field.

cutthemdown
04-27-2009, 08:09 PM
who cares. Nobody knows how the players in this years draft will turn out anyway. Grading teams draft is comical at this point.

Reading what they say about the players is funny. I mean we all know from previous drafts you are lucky if you even get 3 starters from a draft. That maybe goes up a little with 2 firsts but not much.

The trade of Cutler will never equal up with what we got. That's just how it goes when a player screws you and says he won't play, won't call back, want's to be traded. All Broncos can keep doing is trying to select good football players each draft regardless of position.

You do that and find starters, your team will end up good. If by start of his 2nd yr Mcdaniels hasn't added some more beef upfront then I will start to worry.

IMO after 2 FA periods, 2 Rookie drafts, he will have found some DT/DE etc that are the best player available and he will make the move.

Tyson Jackson I'm sure was wanted but he just went to high.

Finger Roll
04-27-2009, 08:09 PM
I don't see why this draft is a C. We'll probally have 4 starters or more coming out of this draft in a year or 2. Does that sound like a C to you considering most drafts have 1 or 2 starters from it.

Finger Roll
04-27-2009, 08:13 PM
The get the low grades because it wasn't what experts expected. If they give it a good grade it's like admitting that they were wrong.

If these experts were really that good they would be working for NFL teams.

I agree. I trust the worst scout on an NFL team over any hack who grades drafts for a living

broncosteven
04-27-2009, 08:42 PM
I don't see why this draft is a C. We'll probally have 4 starters or more coming out of this draft in a year or 2. Does that sound like a C to you considering most drafts have 1 or 2 starters from it.

I do look at draft grades, I look at power rankings during the season. I don't seem to agree with them but I look anyway.

I prefer to see what happens on the field. This franchise needs to win and win quickly.

Ayers is an admited project who at best will bring pressure, not sacks, same thing I heard from Moss when he was drafted. That is fine, so far Moss hasn't proved it on the field.

Knowshon may be the best RB in the draft, cool now run and catch the football this year at the NFL level. Don't be a project like McFadden was showing some promise but end up not being able to make it through 16 games.

The CB, if he wins the Nickel job and shows promise or even wins the 2nd CB slot then great job giving up the future 1st round pick! If not we over paid.

I am dubfounded by the Blocking TE pick. Is he Grahm's replacement in 2 years or is Grahm out this year? Not sure why this guy was picked.

If any of the 2nd day picks stick around for a couple years in 2nd and 3rd string roles than great.

We won't know for years but based on what we know now it is interesting to read this stuff.

TonyR
04-27-2009, 08:47 PM
Ayers is an admited project who at best will bring pressure, not sacks, same thing I heard from Moss when he was drafted. That is fine, so far Moss hasn't proved it on the field.


This is at least the 2nd thread where I've seen you try to compare Ayers to Moss. I don't know for sure but I'm willing to bet Mayock didn't call Moss the best defensive player in the draft...

ZachKC
04-27-2009, 08:47 PM
Same ole, same ole...so because we didn't decide to draft defensive players we didn't like to fit our needs, we get a D. Broncos are the only team in the NFL that would probably ever get a D draft grade with 2 first round picks because of haters.

Ok.

I think this is in your head...it is what it is. It doesn't help your case that Denvers' drafts have sucked ass. How is Jarvis Moss holding up?

The draft may work out great for you guys...it may not. People who do analysis could look like idiots or geniuses. Lets not act like it has anything to do with the myth you folks created about people hating the Broncos.

TonyR
04-27-2009, 08:52 PM
It doesn't help your case that Denvers' drafts have sucked ass.

2006 "sucked ass"? 2008, too? And last I checked we even got 2 starters in 4 picks in 2007.

s0phr0syne
04-27-2009, 09:01 PM
I think this is in your head...it is what it is. It doesn't help your case that Denvers' drafts have sucked ass. How is Jarvis Moss holding up?

The draft may work out great for you guys...it may not. People who do analysis could look like idiots or geniuses. Lets not act like it has anything to do with the myth you folks created about people hating the Broncos.



I think the next-day draft grade analysts end up with egg on their face more often than not. I mean, after KC traded away Jared Allen last year, everyone was all over their nuts about their draft. Denver's draft was much more low key.

However, IMO, Denver's draft was far more fruitful in its first year returns (and if not more, than at least as good as) compared to KC's.

TotallyScrewed
04-27-2009, 09:06 PM
I do look at draft grades, I look at power rankings during the season. I don't seem to agree with them but I look anyway.

I prefer to see what happens on the field. This franchise needs to win and win quickly.

Ayers is an admited project who at best will bring pressure, not sacks, same thing I heard from Moss when he was drafted. That is fine, so far Moss hasn't proved it on the field.

Knowshon may be the best RB in the draft, cool now run and catch the football this year at the NFL level. Don't be a project like McFadden was showing some promise but end up not being able to make it through 16 games.

The CB, if he wins the Nickel job and shows promise or even wins the 2nd CB slot then great job giving up the future 1st round pick! If not we over paid.

I am dubfounded by the Blocking TE pick. Is he Grahm's replacement in 2 years or is Grahm out this year? Not sure why this guy was picked.

If any of the 2nd day picks stick around for a couple years in 2nd and 3rd string roles than great.

We won't know for years but based on what we know now it is interesting to read this stuff.


I agree with this.

Here's why I'm not buying that this draft was anything better than a "C".

Denver needed help in the defensive front in the worst way. Now, from what I hear, Josh doesn't believe that there's anything wrong with the players Denver has; it was just poorly coached. While coaching might have been a problem, the players still must win head to head battles and I didn't see that very often so I think that the players aren't talented enough to win.

We'll see, is all that we can do...I'm just not buying it yet.

Finger Roll
04-27-2009, 09:22 PM
I do look at draft grades, I look at power rankings during the season. I don't seem to agree with them but I look anyway.

I prefer to see what happens on the field. This franchise needs to win and win quickly.

Ayers is an admited project who at best will bring pressure, not sacks, same thing I heard from Moss when he was drafted. That is fine, so far Moss hasn't proved it on the field.

Knowshon may be the best RB in the draft, cool now run and catch the football this year at the NFL level. Don't be a project like McFadden was showing some promise but end up not being able to make it through 16 games.

The CB, if he wins the Nickel job and shows promise or even wins the 2nd CB slot then great job giving up the future 1st round pick! If not we over paid.

I am dubfounded by the Blocking TE pick. Is he Grahm's replacement in 2 years or is Grahm out this year? Not sure why this guy was picked.

If any of the 2nd day picks stick around for a couple years in 2nd and 3rd string roles than great.

We won't know for years but based on what we know now it is interesting to read this stuff.

comparing Ayers to Moss isn't a good one. Moss was a boom or bust who had potential to be great because of his natural pass rush skills but lacked the bulk or strength to contribute right away. His ceiling was very high but hasn't added any size or functional strength which is why he hasn't progressed at all. Ayers is a safer pick but doesn't have as high of a ceiling because he doesn't have the natural athetisism as Moss.

bowtown
04-27-2009, 09:30 PM
Now, from what I hear, Josh doesn't believe that there's anything wrong with the players Denver has; it was just poorly coached.

Where are you hearing this? Do you have a quote where Josh has actually said this?

ZachKC
04-27-2009, 10:06 PM
I think the next-day draft grade analysts end up with egg on their face more often than not. .

I agree but at the same time thats just the draft. You see that as a slam where I see it as the reality of the process.

dsmoot
04-28-2009, 02:46 AM
AFC WEST

SoCals link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-09afcdraftgrades042709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Oakland Raiders
Picks: WR Darrius Heyward-Bey, S Michael Mitchell, DE Matt Shaughnessy, WR Louis Murphy, DE Slade Norris, DE Stryker Sulak, TE Brandon Myers.
Positives: Speed with Heyward-Bey and Mitchell.
Negatives: Two gigantic reaches with Heyward-Bey and Mitchell.
Bottom line: F.
This draft is another cry for help by the Raiders as they keep taking players based on outdated theories about what works in the NFL. While wide receivers and defensive backs are still important, they must be complete players. Neither Heyward-Bey nor Mitchell are anything close to complete. At best, Heyward-Bey was ranked as the No. 3 receiver in the draft by most qualified analysts and should have been drafted somewhere in the 20s, not at No. 7 overall as the first receiver. Likewise, Mitchell was considered a borderline prospect, someone who should have gone in the sixth or seventh round. Furthermore, this was the eighth time in the past nine years that the Raiders have used a first- or second-round pick on a defensive back. They wouldn’t have to do that if they would pick good ones.




Has Oakland morphed into the St.Louis/Arizona Cardinals of the NFL draft the recent 3 to 4 years excluded. What would be amusing would be to see comments from Raider Nation following this draft.

24champ
04-28-2009, 02:59 AM
This is at least the 2nd thread where I've seen you try to compare Ayers to Moss. I don't know for sure but I'm willing to bet Mayock didn't call Moss the best defensive player in the draft...

Mayock says a lot of things.

He was critical about the Broncos trading Cutler. He also said they should get Sanchez otherwise if McDaniels goes 4-12 with Orton he will be canned at the end of the year.

bowtown
04-28-2009, 06:37 AM
Mayock says a lot of things.

He was critical about the Broncos trading Cutler. He also said they should get Sanchez otherwise if McDaniels goes 4-12 with Orton he will be canned at the end of the year.

I'm no great McDaniels appologist, but to think he's getting canned after one year, even if we go 1-15, is crazy talk. Mayock should stick to rating draft prospects.

BroncoInSkinland
04-28-2009, 07:28 AM
1. Grading drafts this early is pretty much the same as asking whether or not a team addressed its needs. There is no performance to base objective opinions of the players selected upon, so you are left with questiosn like did the d-line recieve the help they needed. I view the low grades as experts being critical of the Broncos for not addressing thier biggest areas of concern. That having been said, if the players perform well, these grades will be way off even if areas of concern were not addressed. I believe we did get several high quality players that will be NFL starters very soon, and will probably have average to great careers. That however still does not address the continuing problem we have with our line.

2. Please don't say that having an extra pick means we should have a higher draft grade. We got those extra picks from somewhere, and as a result we need more picks to pan out. We had an extra 1st and a few lower rounds. If you think in an average 7 pick draft you should end up with two starters from your draft class for it to be an ok draft, then from this draft we should get three starters. Having those extra picks actually makes it more difficult to have what is considered a successful draft, as you need more picks to pan out.

colonelbeef
04-28-2009, 08:02 AM
Grade: C-



Comment: A franchise gone amuck. Alienating Jay Cutler, a towering talent, to a degree that he had to be sacrificed was bad enough, but then in the draft the club chose to disregard its defensive ills and began with Knowshon Moreno, a running back. He's good, but he isn't going to be tackling anybody. In the second round, the Broncos surrendered their first-round selection next year in order to move up and identify Alphonso Smith, a DB. Curious.

This is the general consensus across the football observing world.

barryr
04-28-2009, 08:05 AM
Rating a draft before the players even play? This is the stupidity that goes on every year. This is also how teams that draft busts get good grades since those players haven't shown they can't play yet. Useless to worry about grades on drafts BEFORE they have even played a game.

colonelbeef
04-28-2009, 08:05 AM
Mayock says a lot of things.

He was critical about the Broncos trading Cutler. He also said they should get Sanchez otherwise if McDaniels goes 4-12 with Orton he will be canned at the end of the year.

"He was critical" is putting it mildly. Mayock thinks Cutler is the best young QB in the game and cannot understand how the Broncos let him go under any circumstances. He thinks it was moronic to let him get away, especially with 3 years left on his deal.

colonelbeef
04-28-2009, 08:08 AM
I'm no great McDaniels appologist, but to think he's getting canned after one year, even if we go 1-15, is crazy talk. Mayock should stick to rating draft prospects.

maybe. but if at the same time Cutler wins 12 games and the Bears go deep, the calls for his head will be loud and clear.

GeniusatWork
04-28-2009, 10:00 AM
It will take 2 years to see if indeed the Broncos fouled out. They got some good players in the draft. They passed on some front 7 players I thought would help. The RB situation was not pretty so drafting Moreno was a good idea. I keep seeing people mention Torain. Torain won't be at 100% until December, if ever, you can forget all about him until at least December. We had Correll and Hillis. Those were our 2 backs. 2 backs don't last a full season.

DrFate
04-28-2009, 10:17 AM
I'm no great McDaniels appologist, but to think he's getting canned after one year, even if we go 1-15, is crazy talk.

So basically you feel the guy is untouchable? Regardless of the record or on-field performance, he is safe for at least 2+ years?

Odysseus
04-28-2009, 10:29 AM
Draft grades are only one factor in the off season. Free agents make as much or more of an impact. Injuries are a critical factor. Grades are as subjective as the coaches view of what the BPA for that team really is.

We can have a miserable draft and still have a stellar season or a great draft and not function well as a team.

It comes down to teamwork, execution, and good coaching.

bowtown
04-28-2009, 11:11 AM
So basically you feel the guy is untouchable? Regardless of the record or on-field performance, he is safe for at least 2+ years?

Yes. I wasn't a fan of the Shanahan firing or of the McDaniles hiring, but if you don't give a guy at least 2+ years to put his system in place then why make the change at all? If you expect him to just come in and keep things the way they were under Shanahan, then why fire Shanahan? I'm not in love with some of the moves this kid has made so far, but I'm certainly not going to scream for him to be axed until he has had a fair chance to to prove that he can or cannot win. That simply can't be done in one season, we have seen that on a micro scale with D Coordinators on this team, the same applies to head coaches ten fold. Bowlen understands that. He made a change for a reason and he's going to let McDaniels prove whether it was wise or not.

I say there is absolutely zero chance that Bowlen even considers firing McDaniels after this season, no matter what the outcome of the Broncos or Bears, and I think there is almost as little chance of him being fired after year 2.

broncosteven
04-28-2009, 12:56 PM
This is at least the 2nd thread where I've seen you try to compare Ayers to Moss. I don't know for sure but I'm willing to bet Mayock didn't call Moss the best defensive player in the draft...

Who cares who called who what? Moss was projected to go in late 1st round, we moved up to get him. He has not panned out. Ayers is not going to come in and dominate, I am guessing they work him in which was the same plan for Moss as he was undersized then injured. They didn't expect Moss to start and dominate his 1st year and they are not expecting Ayers to start and dominate this year either.

They are on record that they targeted Ayers as their guy, I wanted the Broncos to get their guys. I just hope he does better than Moss has. I believe he will.

gyldenlove
04-28-2009, 01:09 PM
Yes. I wasn't a fan of the Shanahan firing or of the McDaniles hiring, but if you don't give a guy at least 2+ years to put his system in place then why make the change at all? If you expect him to just come in and keep things the way they were under Shanahan, then why fire Shanahan? I'm not in love with some of the moves this kid has made so far, but I'm certainly not going to scream for him to be axed until he has had a fair chance to to prove that he can or cannot win. That simply can't be done in one season, we have seen that on a micro scale with D Coordinators on this team, the same applies to head coaches ten fold. Bowlen understands that. He made a change for a reason and he's going to let McDaniels prove whether it was wise or not.

I say there is absolutely zero chance that Bowlen even considers firing McDaniels after this season, no matter what the outcome of the Broncos or Bears, and I think there is almost as little chance of him being fired after year 2.

Considering that both Bowlen and Mcdaniels have said that the expectation is winning, I would be disappointed if the we don't follow through on that.

Before the Mcdaniels firing we were a .500 team with the worst defense and ST in the league - with a new head coach dedicated to improve the ST and defense we could have and should have been above .500. If Mcdaniels gets us there he has fully deserved all the accolades people put on him as an offensive coordinator. If Mcdaniels doesn't get us just close to there he has failed, he took a young team that went .500 and dismantled it, if that is the case we need to bring a new HC who can control the rebuilding and has FO experience.

bowtown
04-28-2009, 01:25 PM
Considering that both Bowlen and Mcdaniels have said that the expectation is winning, I would be disappointed if the we don't follow through on that.

Before the Mcdaniels firing we were a .500 team with the worst defense and ST in the league - with a new head coach dedicated to improve the ST and defense we could have and should have been above .500. If Mcdaniels gets us there he has fully deserved all the accolades people put on him as an offensive coordinator. If Mcdaniels doesn't get us just close to there he has failed, he took a young team that went .500 and dismantled it, if that is the case we need to bring a new HC who can control the rebuilding and has FO experience.

But how do you know that you don't already have a HC and FO that can handle it if you don't give them the time and patience that it takes to succeed? Every team says that the expectation is winning every year. You don't get rid of a Shanahan unless you are willing to taking a step back before moving forward, no matter what is said, and allowing a new coach to implement his scheme takes time. If you actually believe that McDaniels will be given no leway and be required to win immediately or be fired, you are going to be very disappointed. Don't say I didn't warn you.

STBumpkin
04-28-2009, 01:47 PM
Remember how KC 'won' last year's draft? They won it so well that they were back up there this year drafting #3. Draft rankings are superfluous until all players in the draft have a chance to develop.

Rulon Velvet Jones
04-28-2009, 01:55 PM
If you want to see some stupid crap, it's easy to find archived ESPN draft grades of year's past on ESPN.com. Steelers got a C+ for the Polamalu draft.

R8R H8R
04-28-2009, 02:38 PM
But how do you know that you don't already have a HC and FO that can handle it if you don't give them the time and patience that it takes to succeed? Every team says that the expectation is winning every year. You don't get rid of a Shanahan unless you are willing to taking a step back before moving forward, no matter what is said, and allowing a new coach to implement his scheme takes time. If you actually believe that McDaniels will be given no leway and be required to win immediately or be fired, you are going to be very disappointed. Don't say I didn't warn you.


I agree completely for 2 main reasons. 1. Depending on whether Shanny coaches next year and how much he gets paid, Bowlen wouldn't fire McDaniels and have possibly 3 HC's on his payroll.
2. Bowlen has to save face after firing a legend so he will give McDaniels some time to run his system, as he should.

R8R H8R
04-28-2009, 02:44 PM
If you want to see some stupid crap, it's easy to find archived ESPN draft grades of year's past on ESPN.com. Steelers got a C+ for the Polamalu draft.

Good point. The Steelers are one of a handfull of teams that year-in and year-out replinsh thier roster with good drafts. The are a good example of the benefits of using the BPA philosophy and sticking with it.

gyldenlove
04-28-2009, 02:50 PM
But how do you know that you don't already have a HC and FO that can handle it if you don't give them the time and patience that it takes to succeed? Every team says that the expectation is winning every year. You don't get rid of a Shanahan unless you are willing to taking a step back before moving forward, no matter what is said, and allowing a new coach to implement his scheme takes time. If you actually believe that McDaniels will be given no leway and be required to win immediately or be fired, you are going to be very disappointed. Don't say I didn't warn you.

If I hire a mechanic to make my car go faster and he then breaks the engine, I am not going to trust him to fix it.

If we need to go into full rebuilding mode it will be because of the actions of Mcdaniels and Xanders, there is no way I want them at the wheel to fix the mess they created.

gyldenlove
04-28-2009, 02:52 PM
Good point. The Steelers are one of a handfull of teams that year-in and year-out replinsh thier roster with good drafts. The are a good example of the benefits of using the BPA philosophy and sticking with it.

Techinically it is not BPA when you trade up as much as we do. Then it is just BP.

The A means available, but every player is available when you trade up. BPA means sitting tight and taking the best player no matter who he is.

What Mcdaniels and Xanders did was some sort of weird none-need based targeting system.