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Drek
04-27-2009, 06:02 PM
A pick by pick breakdown of who I feel the new rookies are best comps for.

Knowshon Moreno - Tiki Barber
Why: Same all around game, neither has what appears to be elite straight line speed but unlike a lot of guys when they strap pads on their wheels don't disappear or even noticeably decline. Very similar lateral mobility and suddenness of movement. The big difference is that Moreno is a bigger, more polished back than Tiki was coming out of college. Doesn't mean Moreno is going to be better as Tiki worked very hard to become an elite back, but all the same things that made Tiki a very special player in this league are present in Moreno.

Robert Ayers - Adalius Thomas
Why: This one has been made multiple times, but its very apt. Thomas was very raw coming out of college and needed a lot of coaching up. Ayers shows similar explosive athleticism and instinctive skill at moving through traffic (literally). Nolan turned Thomas into an all NFL player in Baltimore and I think its very possible he does it again with Ayers. But don't expect Ayers to be a stud right out of the gate. He will need some coaching. Years 2 and 3 will be his big steps in productivity.

Alphonso Smith - Dre Bly
Why: NFL.com had this as his best comp and I don't disagree at all. He's small, but he's aggessive in coverage, incredibly polished in his technique coming straight out of school, and he's got a nose for the ball and hands to match. I'm not talking about the Dre Bly we've had the last few years though. I'm talking about when Dre Bly first came into the NFL leading up to his multiple pro-bowl appearances. Smith might not age gracefully either, but he's got the skills to be an impact nickel out of the gate and very quickly become a stand out starter in the league at CB.

Darcel McBath - Renaldo Hill
Why: McBath, like Hill, is a former CB turned safety. Hill made the transition in the pros, while McBath has already made it and is a more physically gifted athlete than Hill, but the style of play is very similar. Both are cover safeties who can make plays on the ball and aren't afraid to step up and get involved on running plays. I don't expect him to ever become a star in this league, but I think he's also got a pretty high floor and is a safe bet to develop into a starter in the NFL for a respectable stretch of time (4-7 years).

Richard Quinn - Brandon Manumaleuna
Why: He's a blocking house, much like Manumaleuna has been for St. Louis and now San Diego. I think Quinn has more athletic upside as a receiver, but he's a very comparable in line blocker already and of similar size. He'll never be a 50+ catch guy, but he's the kind of guy who's your #2 TE for 6-9 years and is an unsung hero in a team showing a lot of red zone and short yardage success.

David Bruton - Deon Grant
Why: Two big guys with deceptive speed and quality ball skills. Grant has made a very good career for himself thanks to teams being unprepared for his speed and coverage abilities out of such a large safety, and Bruton has that same profile. He'll need to put a lot of work in to reach that level obviously, but physically he's a very good comp and Bruton's style of play on the field is reminiscent of Grant to me.

Seth Olsen - Marshal Yanda
Why: Seems like a pretty easy one. Both are big, power blockers from Iowa. Yanda has been in the league two years and has started 17 games in that span for the Ravens. He was a 3rd round selection in the '07 class, and I think we got a steal here with Olsen largely thanks to such a deep C class forcing all the interior OLs back a bit.

Kenny McKinley - Dominik Hixon
Why: I see a lot of the same play making ability in McKinley that Hixon showed coming out of college. McKinley isn't as versatile a special teamer as Hixon, but he is a more polished route runner as a WR and so will hopefully be able to avoid the growth period we unfortunately couldn't carry Hixon through. Assuming he can stay healthy he'll be a solid contributor for us and very possibly could emerge as our #3 WR in just a few seasons.

Tom Brandstater - Derek Anderson
Why: NFL.com chose Mark Bulger as his best comp, but I think Anderson, another late round selection with great size and an above average arm but questionable fundamentals and play reading ability coming out of college is his best comp. Anderson put a lot of time in to his maturation as a player and was fortunate enough to spend his first two seasons just watching and learning. Brandstater needs the same mindset and the same chance to sit and watch before we should expect him to see any real game action.

Blake Schlueter - Ben Hamilton
Why: Schlueter is a surprisingly athletic OL and he uses that to compensate for a lack of size. In that regard he is very similar to Hamilton, but a poor man's Hamilton, as I don't see the same kind of polish and instinctive use of leverage that Hamilton has used to turn a solid collegiate career into a very long and successful pro one. Maybe Hamilton takes him under his wing and guides him along, but best case scenario Schlueter shouldn't be more than practice squad or 3rd string depth for a couple seasons while he hopefully develops.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 06:06 PM
Excellent post ... agree with all but one: Alphonso Smith is very nearly a D-Will clone, albeit a bit less speed.

Calling the guy we just traded a 1st round pick for (possibly a Top 10 pick), calling him Dre Bly is cold! :~ohyah!:

Drek
04-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Excellent post ... agree with all but one: Alphonso Smith is very nearly a D-Will clone, albeit a bit less speed.

Calling the guy we just traded a 1st round pick for (possibly a Top 10 pick), calling him Dre Bly is cold! :~ohyah!:

Dre Bly in his prime was twice the player D-Will ever was (RIP). He was a pro-bowl CB in 2003 and 2004.

As for Smith, his measureables are nearly identical (slightly better infact) to Bly's:
Bly, at 186 pounds, ran a 4.51 second 40-yard dash, 4.09 second 20-yard shuttle, 7.10 3-cone drill, and had a vertical jump of 34 1/2 inches

He isn't like D-Will because right now he's a better CB in man coverage than D-Will ever was. But he's also not nearly as powerful a tackler from the CB position.

D-Will was like an even smaller, even faster Bob Sanders. Dude hit like a ton of bricks. But he wasn't the best DB you'd ever seen when it comes to ball awareness and hands. Smith on the other hand, might just be the best CB in the last few years in both of those categories.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Alphonso Smith is way more physical than Dre Bly will ever be.

Drek
04-27-2009, 06:17 PM
Alphonso Smith is way more physical than Dre Bly will ever be.

I think Bly carries too many negative connotations around here because we had him for the worst, tail end of his pro-career. He didn't let himself get rag dolled around the field.

My big concern with Smith isn't his height. A lot of 5'9" guys do just fine at CB in the NFL. My concern is his toughness. He's real aggressive with WRs until someone fights back, then he tends to pull up. He'll get plenty of chances to out grow that trait facing Marshall (the most physical WR in the league) and Royal (the most physical sub-6'0" guy in the league).

Gcver2ver3
04-27-2009, 06:19 PM
A pick by pick breakdown of who I feel the new rookies are best comps for.

Knowshon Moreno - Tiki Barber
Why: Same all around game, neither has what appears to be elite straight line speed but unlike a lot of guys when they strap pads on their wheels don't disappear or even noticeably decline. Very similar lateral mobility and suddenness of movement. The big difference is that Moreno is a bigger, more polished back than Tiki was coming out of college. Doesn't mean Moreno is going to be better as Tiki worked very hard to become an elite back, but all the same things that made Tiki a very special player in this league are present in Moreno.

Robert Ayers - Adalius Thomas
Why: This one has been made multiple times, but its very apt. Thomas was very raw coming out of college and needed a lot of coaching up. Ayers shows similar explosive athleticism and instinctive skill at moving through traffic (literally). Nolan turned Thomas into an all NFL player in Baltimore and I think its very possible he does it again with Ayers. But don't expect Ayers to be a stud right out of the gate. He will need some coaching. Years 2 and 3 will be his big steps in productivity.

Alphonso Smith - Dre Bly
Why: NFL.com had this as his best comp and I don't disagree at all. He's small, but he's aggessive in coverage, incredibly polished in his technique coming straight out of school, and he's got a nose for the ball and hands to match. I'm not talking about the Dre Bly we've had the last few years though. I'm talking about when Dre Bly first came into the NFL leading up to his multiple pro-bowl appearances. Smith might not age gracefully either, but he's got the skills to be an impact nickel out of the gate and very quickly become a stand out starter in the league at CB.

Darcel McBath - Renaldo Hill
Why: McBath, like Hill, is a former CB turned safety. Hill made the transition in the pros, while McBath has already made it and is a more physically gifted athlete than Hill, but the style of play is very similar. Both are cover safeties who can make plays on the ball and aren't afraid to step up and get involved on running plays. I don't expect him to ever become a star in this league, but I think he's also got a pretty high floor and is a safe bet to develop into a starter in the NFL for a respectable stretch of time (4-7 years).

Richard Quinn - Brandon Manumaleuna
Why: He's a blocking house, much like Manumaleuna has been for St. Louis and now San Diego. I think Quinn has more athletic upside as a receiver, but he's a very comparable in line blocker already and of similar size. He'll never be a 50+ catch guy, but he's the kind of guy who's your #2 TE for 6-9 years and is an unsung hero in a team showing a lot of red zone and short yardage success.

David Bruton - Deon Grant
Why: Two big guys with deceptive speed and quality ball skills. Grant has made a very good career for himself thanks to teams being unprepared for his speed and coverage abilities out of such a large safety, and Bruton has that same profile. He'll need to put a lot of work in to reach that level obviously, but physically he's a very good comp and Bruton's style of play on the field is reminiscent of Grant to me.

Seth Olsen - Marshal Yanda
Why: Seems like a pretty easy one. Both are big, power blockers from Iowa. Yanda has been in the league two years and has started 17 games in that span for the Ravens. He was a 3rd round selection in the '07 class, and I think we got a steal here with Olsen largely thanks to such a deep C class forcing all the interior OLs back a bit.

Kenny McKinley - Dominik Hixon
Why: I see a lot of the same play making ability in McKinley that Hixon showed coming out of college. McKinley isn't as versatile a special teamer as Hixon, but he is a more polished route runner as a WR and so will hopefully be able to avoid the growth period we unfortunately couldn't carry Hixon through. Assuming he can stay healthy he'll be a solid contributor for us and very possibly could emerge as our #3 WR in just a few seasons.

Tom Brandstater - Derek Anderson
Why: NFL.com chose Mark Bulger as his best comp, but I think Anderson, another late round selection with great size and an above average arm but questionable fundamentals and play reading ability coming out of college is his best comp. Anderson put a lot of time in to his maturation as a player and was fortunate enough to spend his first two seasons just watching and learning. Brandstater needs the same mindset and the same chance to sit and watch before we should expect him to see any real game action.

Blake Schlueter - Ben Hamilton
Why: Schlueter is a surprisingly athletic OL and he uses that to compensate for a lack of size. In that regard he is very similar to Hamilton, but a poor man's Hamilton, as I don't see the same kind of polish and instinctive use of leverage that Hamilton has used to turn a solid collegiate career into a very long and successful pro one. Maybe Hamilton takes him under his wing and guides him along, but best case scenario Schlueter shouldn't be more than practice squad or 3rd string depth for a couple seasons while he hopefully develops.


nice comps, but as i've said...Knowshon = Thurman Thomas...

Thurman didn't have the straight line speed, but he could do it all...

terrific agility, pretty tough (although Moreno may be tougher), a great receiver and could block...3 down back all day long...

Broncosfreak_56
04-27-2009, 06:20 PM
I think Bly carries too many negative connotations around here because we had him for the worst, tail end of his pro-career. He didn't let himself get rag dolled around the field.

My big concern with Smith isn't his height. A lot of 5'9" guys do just fine at CB in the NFL. My concern is his toughness. He's real aggressive with WRs until someone fights back, then he tends to pull up. He'll get plenty of chances to out grow that trait facing Marshall (the most physical WR in the league) and Royal (the most physical sub-6'0" guy in the league).
I think that would go to Steve Smith, but Royal is right behind him.

Br0nc0Buster
04-27-2009, 06:26 PM
I think that would go to Steve Smith, but Royal is right behind him.

Both are freakishly strong for their size.
I remember someone saying Royal could bench 400 lb.

broncosteven
04-27-2009, 06:27 PM
Gene = to no one. He is one of a kind and cannot be compared to mere mortals.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 06:31 PM
I think Bly carries too many negative connotations around here because we had him for the worst, tail end of his pro-career. He didn't let himself get rag dolled around the field.

My big concern with Smith isn't his height. A lot of 5'9" guys do just fine at CB in the NFL. My concern is his toughness. He's real aggressive with WRs until someone fights back, then he tends to pull up. He'll get plenty of chances to out grow that trait facing Marshall (the most physical WR in the league) and Royal (the most physical sub-6'0" guy in the league).

I don't know. This is pretty physical.
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The guy had eight sacks. He's not afraid to attack the line of scrimmage.

Gcver2ver3
04-27-2009, 06:41 PM
I don't know. This is pretty physical.
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The guy had eight sacks. He's not afraid to attack the line of scrimmage.

the more i research this Smith kid the more i see wht McD wanted him...

he is a true friggin playmaker...

broncosteven
04-27-2009, 06:48 PM
I think Bly carries too many negative connotations around here because we had him for the worst, tail end of his pro-career. He didn't let himself get rag dolled around the field.

My big concern with Smith isn't his height. A lot of 5'9" guys do just fine at CB in the NFL. My concern is his toughness. He's real aggressive with WRs until someone fights back, then he tends to pull up. He'll get plenty of chances to out grow that trait facing Marshall (the most physical WR in the league) and Royal (the most physical sub-6'0" guy in the league).

I thought Bly picked up his game last year after Champ went down. He wasn't as good as Champ but he did elevate his play.

If any of the CB's we got in the draft can play as well as Bly and make the team I will be happy with the draft.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 06:52 PM
Drek, that's some detailed, in-depth stuff, thanks.

Still can't see Smith as Bly ... but the rest sound great.


Do the CFAs now ...

Vegas_Bronco
04-27-2009, 06:59 PM
Ayers = Suggs....he's more of a sell out for the pass than anything else. I hope we can get him to stop the run also and he should be sick. We've already seen clips of him hiding behind the DT out of sight from the FB and then jumping the RB after the FB has passed. HE'S GOT REAL SKILLS and if he does all things right...we will have one hell of a defender.

Gcver2ver3
04-27-2009, 07:05 PM
Ayers = Suggs....he's more of a sell out for the pass than anything else. I hope we can get him to stop the run also and he should be sick. We've already seen clips of him hiding behind the DT out of sight from the FB and then jumping the RB after the FB has passed. HE'S GOT REAL SKILLS and if he does all things right...we will have one hell of a defender.

i don't mean to diss your analysis but Ayers is nothing like Suggs...

Ayers doesn't at all sell out vs the pass...he only has 9 career sacks...

he does however get a lot of penetration into the backfield for stops...i'd have to look again, but i think he had 24 tackles for losses in a short career of playing time at Tennessee...

if Ayers started to develop some of Sugg's pass rushing ability, it'd be an added bonus...

i agree with you on the part of him having skill...i'm excited about him...

but he's not Suggs...Ayers is a bigger guy who played DE, OLB, and DT for the Volunteers...

Finger Roll
04-27-2009, 07:06 PM
Ayers = Suggs....he's more of a sell out for the pass than anything else. I hope we can get him to stop the run also and he should be sick. We've already seen clips of him hiding behind the DT out of sight from the FB and then jumping the RB after the FB has passed. HE'S GOT REAL SKILLS and if he does all things right...we will have one hell of a defender.

Ayers is actually a better run stuffer than pass rusher at this point according to the draft experts

Broncoman13
04-27-2009, 07:36 PM
Drek, what makes you think Ayers is like Adalius Thomas? Don't get me wrong, I hope you are right... I'd love it if you were right, but I don't see it. Adalius Thomas was a 4.5 guy at the same size. He was also much stronger (10 reps stronger) and was better in terms of lateral agility. Finally, he was referred to as 'the coordinator' by his teammates in Baltimore. His knowledge of the system and his opponents was incredible. I'm not sure that Ayers has that.

Love the comp for Knowshon btw. I think the world of Tiki both on and off the field. He was a good dude that was easy to root for. I have no doubt that Moreno will be the same way!

Alphonso Smith does compare favorably to Dre Bly... the St. Louis Rams' Dre Bly that is.

Anyhow, when you have a chance tell me why you think Ayers compares to Thomas. I'm surprised that people are making that comp... but I'm no expert!

Hulamau
04-27-2009, 09:06 PM
Smiths style reminds me more of Champ than Bly. He's a real ball hawk and tackles like a demon. Just watching his anticipation and tracking the WR before the pass gets there visibly looks like Champ.

The kid has STUD written all over him!

lex
04-27-2009, 09:10 PM
I can see the Barber comparison. They look similar in their gait. I dont really remember him being as athletic as Rockwell Moreno...he may have been slightly faster though.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-27-2009, 09:16 PM
I still say Alphonso Smith reminds me of Terrell Buckley in coverage, though seems like a more aggressive tackler. Both seem to know when to take chances and both have a knack for the pick

watermock
04-27-2009, 09:21 PM
Wow.

Every pick is going to be Thurman.

Didn't the Bills have a defense?

I love how every pick is going be so and so.

We used 3 firsts and cost ourselves next year both.

WHY wouldn't we have a good draft? We wasted picks.

Let's see what 8, 18 do next year in a deeper draft alonbg with 2 seconds and 2 thirds.

We had enough movement available to run the room and we acted compulsively.

:homer on

Drek
04-27-2009, 09:47 PM
Drek, what makes you think Ayers is like Adalius Thomas? Don't get me wrong, I hope you are right... I'd love it if you were right, but I don't see it. Adalius Thomas was a 4.5 guy at the same size. He was also much stronger (10 reps stronger) and was better in terms of lateral agility. Finally, he was referred to as 'the coordinator' by his teammates in Baltimore. His knowledge of the system and his opponents was incredible. I'm not sure that Ayers has that.

Love the comp for Knowshon btw. I think the world of Tiki both on and off the field. He was a good dude that was easy to root for. I have no doubt that Moreno will be the same way!

Alphonso Smith does compare favorably to Dre Bly... the St. Louis Rams' Dre Bly that is.

Anyhow, when you have a chance tell me why you think Ayers compares to Thomas. I'm surprised that people are making that comp... but I'm no expert!
I'm not putting a lot of stock in this year's 40 times myself. A lot of guys who've ran faster in previous pro days, or made massive jumps in their own pro-days this year make me question the veracity of it.

I heard they installed a new surface in Indy, maybe that had something to do with it, but I find it hard to believe that suddenly every single player across the board suddenly got slower than their comps in the last several drafts, who they've been running just fine with in college the last few seasons.

As for the Adalius Thomas comparison, Thomas didn't become that kind of field general until Nolan coached him into it. He was a late round pick based almost entirely on his potential. Ayers is the same. If you watch the kid's game footage from the tail end of his senior year and from the senior bowl you see a guy who is freakishly disruptive. He took on some of the best OLs in this class at the senior bowl and was rag dolling them out of the way or spinning off them like their feet where in cement. He's a much better athlete than the combine numbers indicate.

They're of similar builds, they've shown similar versatility in college. I think Nolan has identified that in him and it is why they chose Ayers specifically to coach into that kind of versatile player.

That isn't to say he's going to step in and be Adalius Thomas right away, or ever. But I think that is what Nolan sees in him and its why we pursued him so early in the draft. If Ayers is dedicated to becoming all he can be as a pro Nolan and Martindale are two great guys to have coaching him. He could be really special in a few seasons.

As for Smith/Bly, yes. You can't base it off the Bly we've had the last few years. While he was soldiering on pretty tough for us (through injuries to both himself and Champ, leaving him the lone legitimate CB on the roster) he was still a shadow of his former self. Smith has the talent to match, maybe even exceed, Dre Bly's peak with the same skill set. That is a hell of a lot more than most top 10 picks ever amount to.

Drek, that's some detailed, in-depth stuff, thanks.

Still can't see Smith as Bly ... but the rest sound great.


Do the CFAs now ...

That'd be tough. I was trying to find comps of similar strengths and weaknesses at similar points in their careers. Not a lot of UDFA NTs and 5-techs that I can think of to compare.

I don't mean these to be a "who this guy will perform like" kind of statement. More of a "this is about the range of talent I think this guys has" kind of thing. They might not live up to it, they might outperform the comp by a wide margin, its just the guys I think best give an indicator of where each guy's strengths and weaknesses are along with what they need to do in order to become successful pros.

Vegas_Bronco
04-27-2009, 09:51 PM
i don't mean to diss your analysis but Ayers is nothing like Suggs...

Ayers doesn't at all sell out vs the pass...he only has 9 career sacks...

he does however get a lot of penetration into the backfield for stops...i'd have to look again, but i think he had 24 tackles for losses in a short career of playing time at Tennessee...

if Ayers started to develop some of Sugg's pass rushing ability, it'd be an added bonus...

i agree with you on the part of him having skill...i'm excited about him...

but he's not Suggs...Ayers is a bigger guy who played DE, OLB, and DT for the Volunteers...


When a guy can play the edge (similar to Suggs) like he does and redirects inside naturally on the QB or RB better than most at his level (which makes him a great run stopper now) - he will be utilized as a QB presser in the NFL. He plays the edge a hell of a lot better than any DE/OLB we've had in this system. You'll see him use his speed when necessary and I have no doubt that he'll have 8-12 sack season within the next 2 years....no doubt. Then, maybe, we can start to have the Suggs conversation - until then we'll keep watching him break double teams up in preseason and get to the RB.

Maybe this will help me make the point:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4094354
http://www.wikio.com/video/988169
WATCH THE 2nd VID....

Tell me again, if that don't look a lot more like a natural pass rusher....damn half that video is him wreaking havoc on the QB. He's a great pickup for us either way and I have no doubt that in 1-2 years he'll have 'Suggs' numbers.


ROTB Community Mock Draft: With the 41th Overall Pick, the Green Bay Packers Select... by Hawkwind on Apr 15, 2009 1:59 PM MDT in 2009 Off Season 0 comments

Robert Ayers (DE), Tennessee

6'3", 272

The Packers have many needs on the defensive side of the ball as they look to move to the 3-4 next year. They have decent depth at the NT position, if not great quality. Aaron Kampman will be moving to OLB next season, leaving a gaping hole at DE, where the Packers lack depth and quality at this time. With this in mind, the Packers select Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee. Weighing in at 272, Ayers is currently a little undersized to play DE in the 3-4 scheme. Some scouts feel that he has the ability to put on 10-15 pounds which would put him right in the sweet spot for the position. Even if this endeavor fails however, it is thought he could make the move to OLB as well. This versatility makes Ayers the right pick here. He is first round talent, with some recent mock drafts having him go as high as 11. There is no doubt that he is better suited as a 4-3 DE at this time, but getting a player of Ayers' ability at 41 is hard to pass on.

Positives: Ayers is a unique combination of athleticism wrapped in a big package and some teams are even working him out as a outside linebacker. He's a natural athlete with a good burst and great balance. He's a physical player with a powerful punch who holds his ground against the run and is an impressive bull rusher. He's able to shed blocks and makes plays in pursuit. He's got some versatility and is really rising up draft boards after a great performance during the Senior Bowl week and workouts.

Negatives: Ayers ran into some off the field problems and clashed with coaches early in his college career but by all accounts has matured over the past couple of seasons. Those problems kept him from becoming a starter until his senior season and for that reason he's still somewhat raw in some areas. He needs to develop better pass rush moves and work on maintaining leverage. His lack of starting experience has also prevented him from having great instincts and he can be undisciplined at times.

summerdenver
04-27-2009, 09:56 PM
good post Drek.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 10:09 PM
If Lichtensteiger and Olson can move in behind Casey and Ben as they retire ... Knowshon will do some WICKED damage in this league for a very long time. Hillis too. Simms too.

BroncoMan4ever
04-27-2009, 10:14 PM
i like it all except the Brandstater - Anderson comparison.

maybe in measurables they are similar, but unlike Anderson; Brandstater is not a statue behind the line, and has a more complete skill set coming out of college than Anderson did.

the skill is there for Brandstater, it just needs to be put together

BroncoMan4ever
04-27-2009, 10:16 PM
If Lichtensteiger and Olson can move in behind Casey and Ben as they retire ... Knowshon will do some WICKED damage in this league for a very long time. Hillis too. Simms too.

my only problem with Lichtensteiger and Schleuter are they are dudes with short arms. a large part of the reason Clady was great his rookie year is he was athletic and has very long arms.

Man-Goblin
04-27-2009, 10:58 PM
The Patriots haven't exactly gotten their money's worth from Thomas. Just ask them or their fans.

Carmelo15
04-27-2009, 11:23 PM
I just watched that 2nd video you posted Vegas. WOW. That's all I have to say. This guy is a monster. He is great at rushing the passer but even better against the run. I saw him playing standing up on a few of those plays. He even had an interception against Matthew Stafford in there. I really see his versatility and absolutely agree with the Adalius Thomas comparison.

I never knew how good this guy is man! Why he wasn't a top 5 pick makes no sense to me. He clearly better than Orakpo because he really knows how to play the run. Also way better than Tyson Jackson he is jus all over the field and straight up makes plays. Only guy you can possibly argue is better than is Raji. But I would have to say Ayers looks better than Raji even. Would've been ideal if we could've ended up with Raji at 12 and Ayers at 18. But Moreno was a great pick and I'm glad they took BPA and got the best RB prospect since Adrian Peterson

Back to Ayers, man now I know why Mike Mayock is on his nuts so hard. This guy is a stud. Curry may be the safer pick but Ayers seems to have greater potential. Now Mayock's prediction of Ayers being the best defensive player of this draft seems a realistic prediction. He is definitely the best lineman prospect in my opinion.

Broncos had a great draft. I already loved Moreno and Alphonso picks but was very skeptical on Ayers. Count me sold now. Dude is a beast! Great draft Broncos!

Drek
04-28-2009, 03:49 AM
my only problem with Lichtensteiger and Schleuter are they are dudes with short arms. a large part of the reason Clady was great his rookie year is he was athletic and has very long arms.

But Clady was at LT, these guys will be inside at OC and OG. Arm length is far more important for people playing on the outside.

Here's an article by Nolan Naworcki on the subject in fact, extolling arm length but it shows how exceptional arm length is primarily an OT stat:

LINK (http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/rock041409.htm)

Also, as you can see in the article, Olsen's arms are just 1/8th of an inch below the desired threshold for OTs, well within what you'd want from a guard. I couldn't find numbers on Lichtensteiger's arm length unfortunately.

i like it all except the Brandstater - Anderson comparison.

maybe in measurables they are similar, but unlike Anderson; Brandstater is not a statue behind the line, and has a more complete skill set coming out of college than Anderson did.

the skill is there for Brandstater, it just needs to be put together

I'd agree that he is more athletic and mobile than Anderson, but neither one is going to keep opposing DCs up at night thinking about how to stop them from scrambling for first downs.

The core skill set and weaknesses relevant to playing the QB position seem pretty similar to me, thats all. I don't think anyone has a true 100% comp in the league, everyone has their own little wrinkle or unique trait.

The Patriots haven't exactly gotten their money's worth from Thomas. Just ask them or their fans.

Nope, but Nolan sure did.

lex
04-28-2009, 10:49 AM
I saw Ayers being compared to Willie McGinest. Im not sure. Its hard to know withouth knowing where he plays. I kind of think he'll play DE due to the fact that Doom can bring the heat at rush LB.

gyldenlove
04-28-2009, 11:09 AM
Kenny McKinley - Dominik Hixon
Why: I see a lot of the same play making ability in McKinley that Hixon showed coming out of college. McKinley isn't as versatile a special teamer as Hixon, but he is a more polished route runner as a WR and so will hopefully be able to avoid the growth period we unfortunately couldn't carry Hixon through. Assuming he can stay healthy he'll be a solid contributor for us and very possibly could emerge as our #3 WR in just a few seasons.

I would say:

Kenny Mckinley - Brandon Stokley
Both are undersized for starting WRs by common standards, both have solid hands and are crafty route runners, both lack the top speed to go deep and the strength to consistently block on the outside.

I see Ayers as an Aaron Schobel kind of player.

Gcver2ver3
04-28-2009, 12:47 PM
When a guy can play the edge (similar to Suggs) like he does and redirects inside naturally on the QB or RB better than most at his level (which makes him a great run stopper now) - he will be utilized as a QB presser in the NFL. He plays the edge a hell of a lot better than any DE/OLB we've had in this system. You'll see him use his speed when necessary and I have no doubt that he'll have 8-12 sack season within the next 2 years....no doubt. Then, maybe, we can start to have the Suggs conversation - until then we'll keep watching him break double teams up in preseason and get to the RB.

Maybe this will help me make the point:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4094354
http://www.wikio.com/video/988169
WATCH THE 2nd VID....

Tell me again, if that don't look a lot more like a natural pass rusher....damn half that video is him wreaking havoc on the QB. He's a great pickup for us either way and I have no doubt that in 1-2 years he'll have 'Suggs' numbers.


ROTB Community Mock Draft: With the 41th Overall Pick, the Green Bay Packers Select... by Hawkwind on Apr 15, 2009 1:59 PM MDT in 2009 Off Season 0 comments

Robert Ayers (DE), Tennessee

6'3", 272

The Packers have many needs on the defensive side of the ball as they look to move to the 3-4 next year. They have decent depth at the NT position, if not great quality. Aaron Kampman will be moving to OLB next season, leaving a gaping hole at DE, where the Packers lack depth and quality at this time. With this in mind, the Packers select Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee. Weighing in at 272, Ayers is currently a little undersized to play DE in the 3-4 scheme. Some scouts feel that he has the ability to put on 10-15 pounds which would put him right in the sweet spot for the position. Even if this endeavor fails however, it is thought he could make the move to OLB as well. This versatility makes Ayers the right pick here. He is first round talent, with some recent mock drafts having him go as high as 11. There is no doubt that he is better suited as a 4-3 DE at this time, but getting a player of Ayers' ability at 41 is hard to pass on.

Positives: Ayers is a unique combination of athleticism wrapped in a big package and some teams are even working him out as a outside linebacker. He's a natural athlete with a good burst and great balance. He's a physical player with a powerful punch who holds his ground against the run and is an impressive bull rusher. He's able to shed blocks and makes plays in pursuit. He's got some versatility and is really rising up draft boards after a great performance during the Senior Bowl week and workouts.

Negatives: Ayers ran into some off the field problems and clashed with coaches early in his college career but by all accounts has matured over the past couple of seasons. Those problems kept him from becoming a starter until his senior season and for that reason he's still somewhat raw in some areas. He needs to develop better pass rush moves and work on maintaining leverage. His lack of starting experience has also prevented him from having great instincts and he can be undisciplined at times.

i hope you're right...

socalorado
04-28-2009, 01:30 PM
Good post Dr. Drekl