PDA

View Full Version : Good draft grades


KansasBronco
04-27-2009, 08:33 AM
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=542934

Denver
The Broncos filled some needs and found some parts, but the bottom line is that they are without quarterback Jay Cutler now, and they definitely didn't replace him. Georgia running back Knowshon Moreno was a no-brainer with the first choice, especially since San Diego coveted him. Tennessee defensive end Robert Ayers has the look of a Justin Tuck type; able to rush from an inside position or from the edge.

In the second round, new Broncos GM Brian Xanders went for secondary performers in Wake Forest CB Alphonso Smith, who has a chance to start, and Texas Tech safety Darcel McBath. South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier called Kenny McKinley the best receiver he's ever coached. McKinley started 33 consecutive games and finished with 207 receptions. He could be a steal. The Broncos are still talking about trading productive tight end Tony Scheffler, and that could be a mistake. Fresno State quarterback Tom Brandstater has an NFL arm and was a very interesting pick at No. 174. Grade: B
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9501382


Peter King
I got the feeling Denver was a kid who got $25 from Granny for his birthday, ran out of the house and said, "I better spend this before the old lady tells me to put some in the bank..'' ... Talked to Josh McDaniels, who was clear that "we felt like we had three first-round picks, not two.'' What he meant was taking a 5-9 cornerback Alphonso Smith at number 37 and dealing next year's first-round pick to get it. Randy Cross has told me a few times what a special player Smith might be. We'll see; Denver had him graded the best corner on the board ...

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/042709dnspodraftanalysis.41a7b13.html
Rick Gosselin Dallas Morning News


We filled a lot of needs with this draft. We got maybe the best special teams player in the safety from ND, a steal for our slot WR in McKinnley and 3 starters maybe for next year with our 1st 3 picks.

Paladin
04-27-2009, 08:41 AM
But, but, but people here tell us that the draft was lousy. Why are you trying to undo a two-day rantfest?
(Cue some idiot to tell us that there was not one DT or NT taken. tsk tsk)


Good post. Why can we not wait and see what happens?

vancejohnson82
04-27-2009, 08:51 AM
But, but, but people here tell us that the draft was lousy. Why are you trying to undo a two-day rantfest?
(Cue some idiot to tell us that there was not one DT or NT taken. tsk tsk)


Good post. Why can we not wait and see what happens?


WAIT AND SEE?????

but then we'll actually have to watch some football before forming an opinion!!!

cousinal11
04-27-2009, 08:52 AM
"Good post. Why can we not wait and see what happens?"

I need results today, dammit!

worm
04-27-2009, 09:04 AM
More 'grades'

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2009-04-26-draft-grades_N.htm

B-
Denver Broncos: Solved the problem of an armada of RBs by reaching a bit for Knowshon Moreno. That said, he ought to plug into their shotgun scheme very well. Can catch and block. Logjam of RBs after free-agency signings (Correll Buckhalter, LaMont Jordan, J.J. Arrington) plus the holdovers. DE Robert Ayers was a one-year wonder but has quickness off the edge. Got good help for secondary with pair of second-round picks and the eventual replacement for Tony Scheffler in TE Richard Quinn. S David Bruton could be a stud.

C
Kansas City Chiefs: Bypassed sureshot LB Aaron Curry for DE Tyson Jackson. He'll fit well in Chiefs' 3-4 but he's not much of a pass-rusher and the Chiefs lacked painfully in that department last year after trading Jared Allen. Jackson seems sound but not spectacular as the third overall choice. DT Alex Magee could get snaps in sub package, not a true NT or physical presence. CB Donald Washington was almost a washout at Ohio State and a surprise choice this high (fourth round).

C-
San Diego Chargers: Extreme reach in first round for DE/LB Larry English. Not a team with a lot of needs, so that's probably OK. Protects them against lingering damage in Shawne Merriman's knee. NT Vaughn Martin should be known as Vaughn Mountain (6-3, 331). Could succeed a slowing Jamal Williams. Got no real insurance against premature end to RB LaDainian Tomlinson's career or the one-year franchise package on Darren Sproles. O-linemen are projects.

F
Oakland Raiders: WR Darrius Heyward-Bey seventh? He disappeared for games at a time, is not a well-rounded receiver but boasts the key Raider attribute straight-line speed. Just a huge reach and not enough value here. Same for S Michael Mitchell, taken in the second round but mostly considered a much later pick, though the Chicago Bears said they liked him two picks after Oakland's. WR Louis Murphy blossomed as a senior, OK pick in fourth. LB Slade Norris nothing special.

Popps
04-27-2009, 09:09 AM
F
• Oakland Raiders:

LOL

p7superfly
04-27-2009, 09:12 AM
After doing more research on the guys we got - and the UDFA's, I'm not as pissed. Could be pleasantly surprised. We'll see.

The secondary is what killed us last year - b/c if a running back got into the secondary - he was gone. We only had one legit tackler -- Champ. And he was hurt.

I think we could go 8-8 next year. The AFC West is a joke.

socalorado
04-27-2009, 09:21 AM
After doing more research on the guys we got - and the UDFA's, I'm not as pissed. Could be pleasantly surprised. We'll see.

The secondary is what killed us last year - b/c if a running back got into the secondary - he was gone. We only had one legit tackler -- Champ. And he was hurt.

I think we could go 8-8 next year. The AFC West is a joke.

The secondaries success is a direct result of the front 7 getting pressure on the QB. It wasnt so much that the secondary sucked, yes there were piss poor band aids playing (McCree, Manuel) but there was also NO pressure on the opposing QB, which allows any QB to look like a pro bowler.

Domostick
04-27-2009, 09:24 AM
The secondaries success is a direct result of the front 7 getting pressure on the QB. It wasnt so much that the secondary sucked, yes there were piss poor band aids playing (McCree, Manuel) but there was also NO pressure on the opposing QB, which allows any QB to look like a pro bowler.

He was talking about the running back getting to the secondary.

barryr
04-27-2009, 09:25 AM
The Broncos just a few years ago while drafting 3 DL high in the draft thought their pass rush had been solved, so just taking DL high in the draft guarantees NOTHING! But people would rather the Broncos skip over talent and just take needs and hope someone becomes just even a decent player. No sense.

baja
04-27-2009, 09:34 AM
The secondaries success is a direct result of the front 7 getting pressure on the QB. It wasnt so much that the secondary sucked, yes there were piss poor band aids playing (McCree, Manuel) but there was also NO pressure on the opposing QB, which allows any QB to look like a pro bowler.

Not on running plays. Tackling was atrocious in the secondary.

snowspot66
04-27-2009, 09:54 AM
During the season there was an article mentioning a very telling stat. Just from memory so I'm sure I'm wrong on the numbers but right on the principle. Some 50 to 75% of the rushing yards we allowed occured on some 10 to 20% of the rushing plays.

RB's would get past the line and it was like Russia. Wide open fields all the way to the end zone. Nobody could ****ing tackle and everybody had their head up there ass way out of position.

uplink
04-27-2009, 09:57 AM
The broncos grades are tilted to the positive since they essentually had 3 1st round picks. Not to say I don't like the picks.

I think the Bengals could have got 3 future probowlers with their 1st 3 picks.

socalorado
04-27-2009, 09:59 AM
He was talking about the running back getting to the secondary.

Oh! my bad i mis read what he meant.

broncobum6162
04-27-2009, 10:43 AM
The secondaries success is a direct result of the front 7 getting pressure on the QB. It wasnt so much that the secondary sucked, yes there were piss poor band aids playing (McCree, Manuel) but there was also NO pressure on the opposing QB, which allows any QB to look like a pro bowler.

Exactly, that's what I was thinking of the whole draft when we didn't get a NT.
Doesn't matter how good the LB's or DB's are if the other teams whole OL is in the LB's plumbers crack. I do like the UDFA pic ups tho. Ayers should be a stud either @ OLB or DL.

BroncoMan4ever
04-27-2009, 11:18 AM
But, but, but people here tell us that the draft was lousy. Why are you trying to undo a two-day rantfest?
(Cue some idiot to tell us that there was not one DT or NT taken. tsk tsk)


Good post. Why can we not wait and see what happens?

we got Baker and Pedelexeu(sp?) after the draft, and both were guys who should have been taken in the mid rounds. so i am happy. we got some DL help and a lot of really good players in the draft.

KansasBronco
04-27-2009, 12:49 PM
Yes we got some UDFA who many had going in the middle rounds. We also took the best player available approach and it will pay off down the road.

yerner
04-27-2009, 12:55 PM
anytime randy cross weighs in on anything i'm a little skeptical.

cutthemdown
04-27-2009, 12:56 PM
I don't know if Smith was best CB on the board, but Broncos rated him that high. You have to pick a guy rated that high on your board when he slips to the 2nd round. Trust your draft board and stick to it. Best player available is the smart way to build a team. It may take longer to fill all your holes but in the end you have better football players on the field.

cutthemdown
04-27-2009, 01:01 PM
we got Baker and Pedelexeu(sp?) after the draft, and both were guys who should have been taken in the mid rounds. so i am happy. we got some DL help and a lot of really good players in the draft.

Watch this draft totally kick ass and have a bunch of people eating crow. The board had become overly optimistic last couple yrs, I think this yr it is overly pessimistic. Broncos are much improved from last yr IMO. The 2 safety's we started were absolutely talentless and performed worst then any combo I can remember in NFL history. Those scrubs were that bad.

No we have Dawkins, Hill and a couple rookies to go along with Barrett from last yr. IMO that is such a huge upgrade it isn't even measurable. From crap to a mix of good vets and youthful talent. Great job by Mcdaniels to identify how important that spot is to Denver football. We have a history of great safety play and I think it returns this yr.

Those moves alone could mean up to 10 less tds scored against defense this yr, and maybe 700-800 less yards. That's how much better our new safetys are.

If Bailey healthy and Goodman and Smith play decent on other side our secondary will be about 60-70% better then it was last yr.

El Guapo
04-27-2009, 01:02 PM
More grades from yahoo!


AFC WEST


Denver Broncos
Picks: RB Knowshon Moreno, LB Robert Ayers, CB Alphonso Smith, CB Darcel McBath, TE Richard Quinn, S David Bruton, G Seth Olsen, WR Kenny McKinley, QB Tom Brandstater, C Blake Schlueter.
Positive: Moreno is the best all-around back in the draft.
Negative: Not enough help on the defensive front.
Bottom line: D. It’s hard to argue with the selection of Moreno, who is a terrific player. But you have to wonder what the Broncos are thinking when they take Moreno after signing running backs LaMont Jordan, Correll Buckhalter and J.J. Arrington earlier this offseason in free agency. Sure, the Broncos were ravaged by injury last season at that position, but they worked to fix it already. Considering the needs the Broncos had on the defensive line, not doing more there is highly questionable. Also, giving up a first-round pick in 2010 for the right to get Alphonso Smith could really backfire in a serious way, taking away many of the gains the team made by trading QB Jay Cutler earlier this month.

Kansas City Chiefs
Picks: DE Tyson Jackson, DT Alex Magee, CB Donald Washington, OL Colin Brown, WR Quentin Lawrence, RB Javarris Williams, TE Jake O’Connell, K Ryan Succop.
Positives: Jackson and Magee.
Negative: Needed some skill position help for Matt Cassel.
Bottom line: A-. New Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli turned his first three picks into key foundation players with the selections of Jackson, Magee and by trading for Cassel at the start of free agency. One thing Pioli learned well from New England’s Belichick is to use your top picks on talented big men like Jackson, who is a carbon copy of Richard Seymour (the No. 6 overall pick in the 2001 draft) and then build around those guys. Add Jackson and Magee to Glenn Dorsey from the 2008 draft and suddenly you have the makings of a monster line. Get a few linebackers to go with it and the Chiefs stand to have a terrific defense by 2010.


Oakland Raiders
Picks: WR Darrius Heyward-Bey, S Michael Mitchell, DE Matt Shaughnessy, WR Louis Murphy, DE Slade Norris, DE Stryker Sulak, TE Brandon Myers.
Positives: Speed with Heyward-Bey and Mitchell.
Negatives: Two gigantic reaches with Heyward-Bey and Mitchell.
Bottom line: F. This draft is another cry for help by the Raiders as they keep taking players based on outdated theories about what works in the NFL. While wide receivers and defensive backs are still important, they must be complete players. Neither Heyward-Bey nor Mitchell are anything close to complete. At best, Heyward-Bey was ranked as the No. 3 receiver in the draft by most qualified analysts and should have been drafted somewhere in the 20s, not at No. 7 overall as the first receiver. Likewise, Mitchell was considered a borderline prospect, someone who should have gone in the sixth or seventh round. Furthermore, this was the eighth time in the past nine years that the Raiders have used a first- or second-round pick on a defensive back. They wouldn’t have to do that if they would pick good ones.


San Diego Chargers
Picks: DE/LB Larry English, G Louis Vasquez, DT Vaughn Martin, G Tyronne Green, RB Gartrell Johnson, CB Brandon Hughes, S Kevin Ellison, WR Demetrius Byrd.
Positives: English, Vazquez, Martin.
Negative: Didn’t get top-end running back.
Bottom line: B. English is a small-college player with big-time pass-rush skills, which the Chargers need after not having linebacker Shawne Merriman last season. Merriman is expected to come back this season, but may not get all of the explosiveness back from what he had prior to his knee injury. Therefore, English may have to be ready sooner than later. Vasquez, Martin and Green are the type of big-body guys the Chargers like on their interior lines and Martin should step right in to replace departed Igor Olshansky. However, the Chargers were really hoping for a shot at Georgia running back Knowshon Moreno, who was taken at No. 12 by Denver, four picks ahead of the Chargers. Moreno was going to be the guy to step in after LaDainian Tomlinson left.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AnW3WhBbK36X.EfmzPhFh4xDubYF?slug=jc-09afcdraftgrades042709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


ouch.

PRBronco
04-27-2009, 01:07 PM
More grades from yahoo!



ouch.

Haha, we got lambasted by Scott at nfldraftcountdown too, he's predicting 4 or 5 wins next year.

Atlas
04-27-2009, 01:14 PM
The broncos grades are tilted to the positive since they essentually had 3 1st round picks. Not to say I don't like the picks.

I think the Bengals could have got 3 future probowlers with their 1st 3 picks.

The Bengals I believe had maybe the best draft of everyone.

Drek
04-27-2009, 01:14 PM
The secondaries success is a direct result of the front 7 getting pressure on the QB. It wasnt so much that the secondary sucked, yes there were piss poor band aids playing (McCree, Manuel) but there was also NO pressure on the opposing QB, which allows any QB to look like a pro bowler.

Really? It isn't a symbiotic relationship all the way around? I'm pretty sure it is.

Example:
The 2007 Denver Broncos were the 19th defense in the league. The DL used most where John Engelberger (15), Sam Adams (11), Marcus Thomas (5), Alvin McKinley (10), and Elvis Dumervil (16).

In 2008 the Denver Broncos where the 30th ranked defense in the league. The DL used most where Ebenezer Ekuban (10), John Engelberger (6), Dewayne Robertson (15), Marcus Thomas (16), Elvis Dumervil (15).

Number in parenthesis is number of games started.

Under the theory that DL is all important, one would have to assume that Ekuban taking 9 starts from Engelberger, Robertson replacing Sam Adams, and Thomas taking all of McKinley's starts in fact lead to a worse defensive line than what we had in '07.

That doesn't pass the smell test for me right there. Especially when you consider that the '07 LBs started DJ inside, Gold at WOLB, and Webster at SOLB with Winborn backing up while the '08 LBs had DJ at his natural WOLB spot, Webster at his natural (though you couldn't tell it from his play) MLB spot, and Winborn at SOLB, backed up by Wesley Woodyard and Spencer Larsen. To me that is yet another unit that looks to have better talent, while the on-field production was worse.

Maybe, just maybe, the massive decline of our already weak '07 defense to '08 had more to do with the complete lack of a single safety capable of helping in coverage or the run, a worthwhile nickel corner, and the loss of Champ Bailey for half the season than it does the DL's production or lack thereof.

We couldn't cover anyone for any length of time, forget the hyperbole about the new DBs needing to cover for 25 seconds, the DBs last year couldn't cover for 5.

To be a dominant D we will need significant improvement at the defensive line. But at this point I'd settle for something even close to league average, and the quickest unit we could rebuild to get those results was the defensive backfield.

Archer81
04-27-2009, 02:58 PM
I liked this draft, we are building for a ball control offense, which will protect a defense that has some holes. The special teams got better, which is always a plus. Some of those UDFA will stick, so we get some defensive line depth. Solid draft, can't wait to see what they do on the field.

:Broncos:

JJJ
04-27-2009, 03:18 PM
The guy from the Sporting News is smoking crack with that F grade for the Bolts while giving your Donks an A-. Bookmark this one to get pulled up in three years.

Rock Chalk
04-27-2009, 05:10 PM
Its funny, I gave us a B- for the draft and not one single person responded to my post.

SoCal's incessant ranting on the draft merited 8 pages worth of responses.

Yet my levelheaded approach was more in line with what most other people have graded.

I guess controversy sells.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 05:24 PM
The Bengals I believe had maybe the best draft of everyone.

That's funny because I think their picks are almost all going to bust big time.

Paladin
04-27-2009, 05:24 PM
I agree with the B grade. I think the O got beter, and I look for better red zone production. The D should be better due to the better play of Dawkins and Hill and Goodman.

The rants about the Dline are getting to be old hat and I am unimpressed with the suthor's belief that no one from the Broncos know a thing about D line play. Doesn't Nolan have some ideas there? Seems to me that most people here understand that.....