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View Full Version : Yes or No: Do you have faith in McDaniels?


slyinky
04-26-2009, 10:38 PM
Now that the draft is over do you have faith in Coach McDaniels at this point?

Personally, I do. I like the fact that he has acquired, both through the draft and free agency, specific players that fit his ideal mold. Players with strong character who are competitive, intelligent and team oriented. A lot of these players are also versatile with the ability to contribute in multiple roles and/or in different facets of their position.

While I would of liked to have seen the front 7 addressed more (especially the down lineman) I feel that he has addressed 3 glaring weaknesses on this team. Field position, defensive turnovers and red zone offense. Bruton should prove to be valuable as a gunner as well as in other areas on special teams. McKinley and company should also contribute. In regards to TO's and pass defense, the DB's drafted are playmakers and ball hawks. Free agent Andre Goodman was one of the league leaders in both Int's and PD last year while Dawkins had 6 FF's and has 34 career Int's. Finally, Moreno's inside running ability and Quinn's blocking should hopefully improve Denver's porous red zone offense. A marked improvement in these 3 areas and I will consider this offseason a success as it would transition this club into a more rounded team.

McDaniels is certainty confident and appears very specific in the direction he wants to take this team. A direction that I feel comfortable with. I have faith...at least for now.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 10:42 PM
On board with a bullet!

TDmvp
04-26-2009, 10:43 PM
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8743/throwback.jpg

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/71354/I-like-pizza?fl_link=

Pseudofool
04-26-2009, 10:44 PM
Fine post, I agree. I was troubled by the lack of Dline players but our UDFAs have helped mitigate my concern.

SoCalBronco
04-26-2009, 10:45 PM
Nope

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 10:45 PM
I don't have faith in him ... yet.

He's the 2nd youngest head coach ever, he has too much power imo, and two of the three most effective people in the organization are gone since he arrived - Cutler and Goodman - and his fingerprints are all over both departures.

So I'm skeptical ... and I think skeptical is the only reasonable view to take in these circumstances.

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2009, 10:50 PM
The honest truth is that we've been so far detached from the draft through Shannahan, that this years draft was very pleasant! McD drafted the guys he wanted and brought them in for a visit also - kind of a unique thing to do for the Broncos (actually draft those who visit).

I have little doubt that he'll run the club well enough to produce his style of team but whether that team wins or not is all the fan base will care about. I'm convinced he knows what he's doing and has the right crew....but, that doesn't always win games. No matter which side of the fence you are on - Jay Cutler was McD's insurance policy....he would have won a lot of games for McD and should have been his best friend this offseason. McD is focused and knows what he wants - I hate seeing get the limping start.

I think we're all packing 'heat' as fans right now waiting for the next criminal act to patrol - I hope he has some early success.

TDmvp
04-26-2009, 10:51 PM
If he wins Yes ...
If not I want him mocked , pointed and laughed at , and deported to Cambodia ...

Unit I have some proof tho I still retain the right to make fun of him as much as humanly possible . Be it childish or not ...

nah nah nah nah nah

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 10:52 PM
Until we play in the games and start winning or losing I'm not ready to say.

Things I like

His football IQ.
His scheme.
His premium on toughness and intelligence for players.
His coaching pedigree.
He has a clear philosophy for what he wants to do with the team.
The coaches he's hired are excellent.
He retained Dennison and Turner.
All his draft picks were good players and difference makers that can play special teams.


Things I don't

The Cutler situation.
The Paxton/Leach deals.
Trading our first next year for Alphonso Smith.
Passing on Ron Brace for Alphonso Smith.


I picked wait and see. I feel more confident than not, but I would be just as stupid as the retards who are on here telling everyone he sucks if I said he was going to be awesome.

The fact is we just don't know. We don't know how our picks will look. We don't know how we'll play next year, and we don't know how good or bad he'll be. I like the type of players he's bringing in and I like his staff. Will it all pan out? No one knows.

SoCalBronco
04-26-2009, 10:54 PM
Until we play in the games and start winning or losing I'm not ready to say.

Things I like

His football IQ.
His scheme.
His premium on toughness and intelligence for players.
His coaching pedigree.
He has a clear philosophy for what he wants to do with the team.
The coaches he's hired are excellent.
He retained Dennison and Turner.
All his draft picks were good players and difference makers that can play special teams.


Things I don't

The Cutler situation.
The Paxton/Leach deals.
Trading our first next year for Alphonso Smith.
Passing on Ron Brace for Alphonso Smith.


I picked wait and see. I feel more confident than not, but I would be just as stupid as the retards who are on here telling everyone he sucks if I said he was going to be awesome.

The fact is we just don't know. We don't know how our picks will look. We don't know how we'll play next year, and we don't know how good or bad he'll be. I like the type of players he's bringing in and I like his staff. Will it all pan out? No one knows.

How long are you willing to give him?

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 10:55 PM
CFA Chris Baker could be better than Ron Brace ... he did the Marcus Thomas belly-flop down the draft boards, but he is a top-flight talent.

I'm really happy about that ... now if only the 1st we gave up was stipulated the lower of the two. We'll see.

Pseudofool
04-26-2009, 10:56 PM
Passing on Ron Brace for Alphonso Smith.I think the gap between Brace and, say, Baker is much, much smaller than Smith and the top UDFA CB.

TDmvp
04-26-2009, 10:59 PM
Until we play in the games and start winning or losing I'm not ready to say.

Things I like

His football IQ.
His scheme.
His premium on toughness and intelligence for players.
His coaching pedigree.
He has a clear philosophy for what he wants to do with the team.
The coaches he's hired are excellent.
He retained Dennison and Turner.
All his draft picks were good players and difference makers that can play special teams.


Things I don't

The Cutler situation.
The Paxton/Leach deals.
Trading our first next year for Alphonso Smith.
Passing on Ron Brace for Alphonso Smith.


I picked wait and see. I feel more confident than not, but I would be just as stupid as the retards who are on here telling everyone he sucks if I said he was going to be awesome.

The fact is we just don't know. We don't know how our picks will look. We don't know how we'll play next year, and we don't know how good or bad he'll be. I like the type of players he's bringing in and I like his staff. Will it all pan out? No one knows.



Hate the Pats scheme . It doesn't do well vs power teams who smash you in the mouth and get after the Qb ... little to finesse for my liking .
But we will see ...

OrangeRising
04-26-2009, 11:02 PM
No. He has thrown a brick through our future with that inbecile Seahawks trade.

The Quinn move was almost as amateurish. The Cutler thing goes without saying.

Goodness, maybe he can coach.

The sooner gone, the better.

Popps
04-26-2009, 11:05 PM
No. He has thrown a brick through our future with that inbecile Seahawks trade.

The Quinn move was almost as amateurish. The Cutler thing goes without saying.

Goodness, maybe he can coach.

The sooner gone, the better.

That's the spirit! Root for failure!

Pseudofool
04-26-2009, 11:08 PM
He has thrown a brick through our future with that inbecile Seahawks trade. We're talking at most two dozen draft slots. Overreact much.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2009, 11:11 PM
That's the spirit! Root for failure!

He traded that way for some Smith guy.

Wes Mantooth
04-26-2009, 11:16 PM
Nope. Not until he wins games.

Popps
04-26-2009, 11:17 PM
We're talking at most two dozen draft slots. Overreact much.

That could mean the difference between Jarvis Moss (first rounder) and Eddie Royal (second rounder.)

The horror!

Look, it's a questionable move. I understand the rationale behind it. If it works, good move. If not... bad risk.

But, it's not a friggin' team-breaker. They liked this kid a lot, and wanted to get him in and start developing him now, not wait another year for a maybe.

TDmvp
04-26-2009, 11:20 PM
All I know is that this is the first time in my life my friends who are Bengals fans have been telling me they was sorry to hear about my team and our coach/player losses and gains ... and actually feeling sorry for me and being careful of bringing it up or saying the wrong thing LOL ...


Could be worse I guess ... I could be a Bengals fan ...
But still feels strange for my team not to be stable , solid , and respected .

Mr Chatterboodamn
04-26-2009, 11:21 PM
I don't have faith in him ... yet.

He's the 2nd youngest head coach ever, he has too much power imo, and two of the three most effective people in the organization are gone since he arrived - Cutler and Goodman - and his fingerprints are all over both departures.

So I'm skeptical ... and I think skeptical is the only reasonable view to take in these circumstances.

Accord...except I think it's reasonable for people to think whatever they want about McDaniels due to the magnitude of his impact in such a short time. An objective "reasonable" standard should span many different cognitive bents and personality types. I don't blame people who "drink the koolaid" or permanently hate his guts or people like us who hate his napolean act so far but haven't drawn any final conclusions. While I would argue that our shared view is quite reasonable under the circumstances, I think it speaks more to similar standards for evaluating character and extracting truths. I really wish I was behind our new coach's approach 100% by this point but I don't like most of what he's done.

I don't like the "hoodie" tradition...I like individuals who borrow the components of their approach from others, but never in a wholesale fasion, and always based on their own conscience and character. He has almost unilaterally gutted the key aspects I loved about the team in the past and it remains to be seen what he will ultimately offer as an alternative. If it's verbatim Patriots-style disgusting football, I'm never gonna be down with that. I hope it's something different. The Knowshown pic actually gives me hope that he will be a more run-oriented coach that we first believed.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2009, 11:21 PM
Its much easier to package two first round picks to move up to get a more talented player in a draft then one popps.

Crushaholic
04-26-2009, 11:25 PM
I absolutely still have faith in him. It's only April.

Taco John
04-26-2009, 11:30 PM
I want to give him the benefit of a doubt, but he manages not to earn it. When we were looking for a coach, I thought a 32 year old guy wouldn't have the experience to handle touchy player situations on an immature team. He tripped over the dog the first step in the door.

Now with this puzzling draft. I've watched and followed the draft every year for as long as I can remember. I can't ever remember being this dumbfounded. We need defense, and we take mostly offense. We give up first round value in order to take second rounders in a weak draft. We take TEs when we need NTs. And to make it worse, the people on this board happy to see Shanahan fired because he never drafted defense are all on here rationalizing why the smart thing to do was shun defensive players.

There were two picks this draft that I liked - the first two. The rest seem like good players, but I can't fathom what they're doing on the team when our front 7 looks so thin right now - especially the NT position.

I'm on the wait and see plan though. So far, I haven't seen anything significant that McDaniels has brought to the table that we were missing with Shanahan - and worse, I feel like we've taken steps backwards. But, I'll give him the opportunity to prove that we're moving forward. I would think that in his mind, anything less than the playoffs is a failure - and I personally feel the same way about it.

Popps
04-26-2009, 11:40 PM
He tripped over the dog the first step in the door.

You, the biggest Griese supporter of all time, using that metaphor? Funny.

We need defense, and we take mostly offense. .

3 of the first 4 picks were defensive players, including the top-ranked DE in the draft.

We give up first round value in order to take second rounders in a weak draft. .

We obtained a high 2nd round for a 1st next year. They targeted a player they wanted and got him, and can begin developing that player now, instead of playing roulette next season. Risky? Sure, but this staff knew exactly what they wanted.

So far, I haven't seen anything significant that McDaniels has brought to the table that we were missing with Shanahan - .

How could you "see" anything? We haven't held a single practice. Drafts are crap-shoots, at best. We watched Shanahan and Co. butcher up the draft and FA for most of the past decade, so let's not pretend there was some standard to live up to, here.

We've brought in something like 25 players so far to try to improve this team, and we're not even to training camp, yet.

Yes, I would have liked to have seen another DL pick on day one. But, Nolan likely didn't see anything outstanding, and conversely... the staff saw great value elsewhere. (Again, like the Eddie Royal pick... we didn't necessarily need him, but he paid off big-time.)

This looks to me like a staff doing the little things to build a proper foundation.... drafting and signing quality, good character guys, filling out STs, filling out positional needs and setting up a base to build from.

Pseudofool
04-26-2009, 11:42 PM
McD clearly values character more than Shanahan ever did; he is bringing that to the table.

lex
04-26-2009, 11:46 PM
Accord...except I think it's reasonable for people to think whatever they want about McDaniels due to the magnitude of his impact in such a short time. An objective "reasonable" standard should span many different cognitive bents and personality types. I don't blame people who "drink the koolaid" or permanently hate his guts or people like us who hate his napolean act so far but haven't drawn any final conclusions. While I would argue that our shared view is quite reasonable under the circumstances, I think it speaks more to similar standards for evaluating character and extracting truths. I really wish I was behind our new coach's approach 100% by this point but I don't like most of what he's done.

I don't like the "hoodie" tradition...I like individuals who borrow the components of their approach from others, but never in a wholesale fasion, and always based on their own conscience and character. He has almost unilaterally gutted the key aspects I loved about the team in the past and it remains to be seen what he will ultimately offer as an alternative. If it's verbatim Patriots-style disgusting football, I'm never gonna be down with that. I hope it's something different. The Knowshown pic actually gives me hope that he will be a more run-oriented coach that we first believed.



Cosign

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 11:53 PM
You, the biggest Griese supporter of all time, using that metaphor? Funny.
Still fighting that Griese fight too, I see.

Seven years later.

So does this mean you'll still be fighting the Cutler fight in 2016?


3 of the first 4 picks were defensive players, including the top-ranked DE in the draft.
He knows who we drafted Popps ... he clearly meant front 7.


We obtained a high 2nd round for a 1st next year. They can begin developing that player now, instead of playing roulette next season. Risky? Sure, but this staff knew exactly what they wanted.
What?! Why is next season's pick roulette, but this season' pick NOT roulette? Next year's pick is a FIRST rounder ..... why is a FIRST round pick roulette, but a second round not? Is that pre-sweetened or unsweetened Koolaid you got there?


Drafts are crap-shoots, at best. We watched Shanahan and Co. butcher up the draft and FA for most of the past decade, so let's not pretend there was some standard to live up to, here.
WHAT?! Yes there most certainly IS a standard to live up to ... the last three years were the best 3-year run of drafts in our fifty-year history!

Please.


We've brought in something like 25 players so far to try to improve this team, and we're not even to training camp, yet.
Yes, I would have liked to have seen another DL pick on day one. But, Nolan likely didn't see anything outstanding, and conversely... the staff saw great value elsewhere. (Again, like the Eddie Royal pick... we didn't necessarily need him, but he paid off big-time.)
That makes sense ... congratulations.


This looks to me like a staff doing the little things to build a proper foundation.... drafting and signing quality, good character guys, filling out STs, filling out positional needs and setting up a base to build from.
I could've written this part for you Friday, you're so predicatable.

There was never any doubt you were gonna sign on to whomever Saint Joshua drafted. :thumbs:

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 11:58 PM
This is surprising. The shrill is so loud from the dissenters that I assumed that 75% of them hated him with a passion. It reminds of the "silent majority" speech.

Elway777
04-27-2009, 12:10 AM
Aside from trading away our Franchise Qb that took 10 years to find, Trading away our hightest draft pick we could have in 20 years for a Nickle Corner,Switching to the 3-4 but only drafting one player that might fit the scheme if we are lucky, I have all the confidence in the world in Him . Why not offer him a 10 year extention.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 12:11 AM
This is surprising. The shrill is so loud from the dissenters that I assumed that 75% of them hated him with a passion. It reminds of the "silent majority" speech.
As in Barry Goldwater? ... excellent!

Well I am skeptical about him in the front office, but I feel confident our offense will rock ... if the guys can learn it. Even the o-linemen have a steep learning curve. Kuper's dad says Chris's head is swimming with all the complicated, new stuff.

2010 will be exciting ... Josh and Nolan will have installed and taught everything. I'm thinking we'll be above .500 n 2010.

lex
04-27-2009, 12:16 AM
As in Barry Goldwater? ... excellent!

Well I am skeptical about him in the front office, but I feel confident our offense will rock ... if the guys can learn it. Even the o-linemen have a steep learning curve. Kuper's dad says Chris's head is swimming with all the complicated, new stuff.

2010 will be exciting ... Josh and Nolan will have installed and taught everything. I'm thinking we'll be above .500 n 2010.

2010? What an awesome ploy to hang on to your job. If Pat Bowlen interviews for the head coaching job again, they can just say, "yeah, Pat, I have this system...its really great but it takes 4 years to implement...but in the meantime Im going to do everything I can to make your franchise unlikeable...but again, its an awesome system after 4 years...are you down with that?"

The sad part is that we know Pat will likely say, "sign me up buddy...I got your back."

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 12:18 AM
One year is not much to give the kid here ... anybody gets one year.

lex
04-27-2009, 12:22 AM
One year is not much to give the kid here ... anybody gets one year.


OK, but how many coaches are this reviled before theyve even coached a game? Pat may have no choice.

slyinky
04-27-2009, 12:32 AM
Josh may not have addressed the front 7 like everyone wanted but one area that he did address is defensive turnovers. A very important area that I think was overlooked a lot during the Shanahan era. Last year we were last in both takeaways and giveaway/takeaway ratio. Our defense had a pathetic total of just 13 takeaways last year. By far the worst in the NFL. Free agent signee Andre Goodman from Miami (a team that went from a record of 1-15 to the playoffs this last year while leading the league in giveaway/takeaway ratio of +17) had 5 Int's himself compared to just 6 total for Denver. Dawkins forced 6 fumbles last year while the entire Broncos D recovered 7. Alphonso Smith had 7 Int's last year and 8 the year before. McBath and Bruton had 6 and 3 each.

I realize getting pressure on the QB is a big factor in creating turnovers but it appears that McDaniels felt that it was more feasible to address other pressing needs. Aside from the takeaways we were last in average field position and horrible in the red zone and he has addressed these areas.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 12:35 AM
Was Bruton the only Golden Domer drafted?

Taco John
04-27-2009, 12:49 AM
You, the biggest Griese supporter of all time, using that metaphor? Funny.



3 of the first 4 picks were defensive players, including the top-ranked DE in the draft.



We obtained a high 2nd round for a 1st next year. They targeted a player they wanted and got him, and can begin developing that player now, instead of playing roulette next season. Risky? Sure, but this staff knew exactly what they wanted.



How could you "see" anything? We haven't held a single practice. Drafts are crap-shoots, at best. We watched Shanahan and Co. butcher up the draft and FA for most of the past decade, so let's not pretend there was some standard to live up to, here.

We've brought in something like 25 players so far to try to improve this team, and we're not even to training camp, yet.

Yes, I would have liked to have seen another DL pick on day one. But, Nolan likely didn't see anything outstanding, and conversely... the staff saw great value elsewhere. (Again, like the Eddie Royal pick... we didn't necessarily need him, but he paid off big-time.)

This looks to me like a staff doing the little things to build a proper foundation.... drafting and signing quality, good character guys, filling out STs, filling out positional needs and setting up a base to build from.



I can't even take anything I read from you on this draft seriously. McDaniels has totally upended your whole image here. You've spent so much time hammering into us, on and on and on and on about how you're all about the defensive line, the defensive front 7, yammer yammer yammer... And then we spend a draft where we give it a single look while going all over the board for Tight Ends, Runningbacks, Quarterbacks, and Defensive Backs -- and when we all get to see your take on the matter and find out that it was all just so much talk coming out of you.

It's clear that no matter what McDaniels had done in this draft, you'd have spun it as "building a proper foundation." You'd have said the same thing if he drafted all Defensive front seven guys. He'd have been praised for seeing what Shanahan couldn't see, and that it all starts up front on defense -- your viewpoint, which for what it's worth, McDaniels has pretty much panned. It's amusing to me that you caught the irony of my "tripping on the dog" crack, but you haven't yet acknowledged the irony that everything McDaniels has done to this point has pretty well busted up anything that you've ever had to say. It all starts with the defensive front line? Uh -- apparently not. McDaniels approach so far says it all starts with the running game and the defensive front 7 is an afterthought.

What I don't understand is why you'd abandon your entire football philosophy in deferrment to an approach that you've been arguing against for almost a decade: offense first, defensive secondary second, and defensive line last. It gives me pause. If you are willing to abandon ten years of stances, maybe there's more to McDaniels than I had first imagined.

Maybe you can explain it to me: What part of the approach that starts by building the offense and the defensive secondary as a priority, and hardly gives consideration to the defensive line finally converted you?

Elway777
04-27-2009, 12:50 AM
Josh may not have addressed the front 7 like everyone wanted but one area that he did address is defensive turnovers. A very important area that I think was overlooked a lot during the Shanahan era. Last year we were last in both takeaways and giveaway/takeaway ratio. Our defense had a pathetic total of just 13 takeaways last year. By far the worst in the NFL. Free agent signee Andre Goodman from Miami (a team that went from a record of 1-15 to the playoffs this last year while leading the league in giveaway/takeaway ratio of +17) had 5 Int's himself compared to just 6 total for Denver. Dawkins forced 6 fumbles last year while the entire Broncos D recovered 7. Alphonso Smith had 7 Int's last year and 8 the year before. McBath and Bruton had 6 and 3 each.

I realize getting pressure on the QB is a big factor in creating turnovers but it appears that McDaniels felt that it was more feasible to address other pressing needs. Aside from the takeaways we were last in average field position and horrible in the red zone and he has addressed these areas. I love Dawkins and I love Smith but the Broncos traded most likely a top 5 pick for him. The Broncos should know by now if your front 7 stucks then you cann't stop anybody.

FireFly
04-27-2009, 01:16 AM
"Yes, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. More Kool Aid please!"

I selected this, but giving him the benefit of the doubt hardly seems like drinking Kool Aid.

I'm ok with ALL of the picks he made, but like almost everyone else I don't like what he gave up to get them. I think Smith is too short to be an elite corner but I hope I'm wrong, and I would have like to have seen Brace in a Bronco's uniform.

I'm sure for our 1st next year we could have even snuck into in the bottom of the 1st this year, or higher than we did in the 2nd.

I think he knows what he's doing. He clearly has a plan imo. I don't know that its all going to work, but then with a new coach you never do. I'd have done it differently, but then that doesn't really count for much!

He's not the most awesome coach in history just yet, but I'm not ready to run him out of town either. I have more hope than not that he'll get it right eventually. This year or next he'll right the ship.

I liked his point that we still have a full 7 round draft next year.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 01:24 AM
I think Bruton was the only Notre Dame guy drafted ... is that true?

Blueflame
04-27-2009, 01:27 AM
There's no point at all in voting on this poll... my position seems pretty clear without casting one.

slyinky
04-27-2009, 01:27 AM
I love Dawkins and I love Smith but the Broncos traded most likely a top 5 pick for him. The Broncos should know by now if your front 7 stucks then you cann't stop anybody.
I think Smith is a good pick but I was definitely not in favor of trading next years first for him. In McDaniels defense, though, I'm sure he doesn't foresee having a losing record next year but with our schedule I am not all that confident. That and the Paxton signing are the two decisions by McDaniels that I question.

Not real exited that he traded up for Quinn in the second, either.

slyinky
04-27-2009, 01:32 AM
I selected this, but giving him the benefit of the doubt hardly seems like drinking Kool Aid.
According to the McDaniels haters it is.

footstepsfrom#27
04-27-2009, 02:28 AM
No.

Dumping a possible top 10 pick for a 2nd round CB and drafting Chad Mustard's replacement with another 2nd round pick?

Things have a long ways to go before I have faith in him

NYBronco
04-27-2009, 02:54 AM
Yes, I have faith in the man.

I continued to have faith in Shanahan before his departure with growing reservation and endured his growth as a young coach to "mastermind" category.

worm
04-27-2009, 06:28 AM
This is surprising. The shrill is so loud from the dissenters that I assumed that 75% of them hated him with a passion. It reminds of the "silent majority" speech.

Perspective is everything. I think the loudest shrill over the past months has come from the other side.

cousinal11
04-27-2009, 06:46 AM
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3><INPUT id=rb_optionnumber_3 type=radio value=3 name=optionnumber>Uhm, wait and see attitude for me.</LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3> </LABEL><LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3></LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3>-Moreno will actually help the defense</LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3></LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3>-Ayers seems like a solid pick</LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3></LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3>-Smith is going to be a player. Watched him in the ACC for years, guy is a football player. You guys are going to love him. Smart, tough, serious ball skills.</LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3></LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3></LABEL>
<LABEL for=rb_optionnumber_3>After that, I was lost. I'm going to need a new head scratcher. </LABEL>

DrFate
04-27-2009, 07:16 AM
The draft pretty much reinforces how I felt about the guy before. Inexperienced and making decisions for today that seem to hurt the future of the franchise. When you can turn a first round pick into a 2nd round player, you've done something special. It is all too likely that the first for next year is a top 10 pick. If that is the case, Smith had better be Darrell Green.

I've asked before, I'll ask again (McDaniels cultists, please feel free to answer) - in the presser, he said 'this draft wasn't deep in good players that fit our system'. If that is the case, WHY trade next years picks for this years players, when it is generally accepted that next years draft has better players?

colonelbeef
04-27-2009, 07:41 AM
I'm somewhere in between 'no' and 'wait and see' as pertaining to his coaching ability. His personnel decisions left plenty to be desired, signing 3 RB's and 3 S and then drafting at both positions early and often, the awful trades including losing the 1st rounder for next year to grab an undersized corner, drafting a blocking TE when a) the position is already filled and b) it's a reach to begin with, the loss of the best player on the team who is playing for peanuts over an ego clash, all terrible rookie mistakes.

He might end up being a good coach, but this offseason has been a circus at best and a disaster at worst, only the most blind of the faithful would say otherwise. To say that you have ultimate confidence in him after this awful offseason, not to mention the fact that you haven't seen him coach a single game, is downright homerism and wishful thinking.

You can't have total confidence in something you've never seen.

BroncoInSkinland
04-27-2009, 08:25 AM
I wen't with no. The three best moves I see this off season are signing Dawkins, drafting Knowshon, and getting good value for Cutler once the situation played out. All three of those put together don't come close to missing on Orakpo, Brace, or whoever thier top picks for NT/DE were, let alone the damage done by driving away/letting slip away a Franchise QB. Add in trading away the first next year, and it has been disastrous. I understand the drafting philosophy of BPA, but with glaring needs in the front 7, and having done nothing to address them in FA, I expected us to at least make an attempt to solve our issues in the draft. Failing to do so has taken my already low opinion of McDaniels and NE staff outside of NE to staggeringly low levels.

listopencil
04-27-2009, 08:32 AM
I'm starting to calm down and come back from the ledge after a particularly infuriating draft. I like the idea of having a stud RB to pair w/ Hillis. Ayers could be a really nice 4-3/3-4 transitional guy. I like that TE we picked up. Shoot- I was overjoyed when we signed Graham and he sounds like Graham Jr. And I know we needed to get some young guys in our secondary. So we got some good stuff done.

I'm not going to get into the stupid bull**** because it's already been hashed out over and over again, but I'll put off carving McD's skull w/ a rusty fork for now.

listopencil
04-27-2009, 08:34 AM
I went with "wait and see" by the way.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 09:54 AM
How long are you willing to give him?

Probably a year will give me some idea. He said himself that the guys he took were taken to make an immediate impact. If they haven't then that raises questions about his selecting ability. If front seven guys we passed on look good then that's also a knock, especially if we have issues on defense. On the other hand, if the team plays better and the majority of the picks are playing well then that bodes well for his talent selection and he needs a few years to load the team with his guys.

If we're bad next year then he'll be on the hot seat on '10. If the picks look good and we're at least competing in a very tough schedule then he deserves 3 years.

Rohirrim
04-27-2009, 10:03 AM
I'm in the "wait and see" club. I was on his side through the Cutler deal. I'm actually glad that Cutler is gone because I suspect he has some mental issues, frankly. This draft is a complete puzzle to me. The first two picks I'm on board with. Trading a first for Lil Al is mind-boggling. Trading again for a TE/OG is also squirrelly. Not picking up some Dlinemen is jaw-dropping. I disagree with Lil Mac that there wasn't anybody in this draft that could compete with what we've got. I think Alex Magee and Fili Moala could have started here. I guess we'll see about that. Lil Mac is young, bold and hard headed. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, train wreck.

gyldenlove
04-27-2009, 10:04 AM
I trust him as a coach, I think he will be a good head coach who like Mike Shanahan will be able to win a few games with solid scheming, preparation and knowing how to compensate for weaknesses.

I have almost no faith in him as a front office guy, like Shanahan he seems to be a guy who has problems seeing the big picture in evaluating players and I think that we could be in for trouble if we do not keep the final player personnel say away from him.

Rabb
04-27-2009, 10:06 AM
Yes, I would have liked to have seen another DL pick on day one. But, Nolan likely didn't see anything outstanding, and conversely... the staff saw great value elsewhere

I think this is a great point that goes overlooked, it is way too easy to blame everything on McDaniels but nobody considers that he just might have been told by Nolan to pass on some guys

Ambiguous
04-27-2009, 10:12 AM
How long are you willing to give him?

You've got to give him at least a season before you can even start leaning in a direction. After 2 or 3 years of sucking he can be run out of town.

Bronx33
04-27-2009, 10:20 AM
I give him 2 seasons to show some promise then i will pee on everbodys leg like the beef, frerotteand elway, garrand ect ect and the negative nancy club laying all out on the line now before we have even seen one freaking game.

Taco John
04-27-2009, 10:23 AM
I find it very hard to believe that Nolan would rather have no NT on this defense than any of the guys he could have gotten on day one - or even day two for that matter.

How in the hell are we going to run a 3-4 defense with no NT?

Man-Goblin
04-27-2009, 10:26 AM
I just want some more Kool-Aid, please.

Bronx33
04-27-2009, 10:27 AM
I find it very hard to believe that Nolan would rather have no NT on this defense than any of the guys he could have gotten on day one - or even day two for that matter.

How in the hell are we going to run a 3-4 defense with no NT?

yes or no taco ( do you have any faith)

broncobum6162
04-27-2009, 10:32 AM
I find it very hard to believe that Nolan would rather have no NT on this defense than any of the guys he could have gotten on day one - or even day two for that matter.

How in the hell are we going to run a 3-4 defense with no NT?

I tried to bring up that point yesterday to no avail. I was trying to make the point that if were were gonna burn a 1st for next year, do it for Raji and boy was I told I was wrong. Oh well, the Hoodie apologists will have their take on this as well as those like me who are on the fence. I don't want to see him fail as that means the whole organization fails with him. I just really haven't seen enough decisions from him yet to make me wanna start drinkin the Koolaid. I'm doing a lot of head scratching and did a lot of cussin the last few days but for now I'm ready to move on and see what happens. There is really nothing else we can do but hope the decisions that have been made work for the best of the team. I am happy w/ the attempt we made by signing some Dline UDFAs.

Archer81
04-27-2009, 10:33 AM
Seems some people prefer the Broncos fail. I dont quite get the hysteria around here lately. Its a game, for the love of God. Calm down.


:Broncos:

lex
04-27-2009, 10:40 AM
I think Bowlen is the bigger problem. And McDaniels has a lot to prove in a short time.

gyldenlove
04-27-2009, 10:47 AM
I find it very hard to believe that Nolan would rather have no NT on this defense than any of the guys he could have gotten on day one - or even day two for that matter.

How in the hell are we going to run a 3-4 defense with no NT?

We are not going to play 3-4. We are going to play a hybrid consisting 4-3 with some mentions of 3-4 and maybe the odd 3-4 formation for passing situations.

I would guess we are going to play the same ratio of 4-3 to 3-4 we did in 2008. Right now I would guess our base formation is: Peterson/Crowder - Thomas - Fields - Ayers/Dumervil

Bronx33
04-27-2009, 10:49 AM
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! can anybody just stay on the subject without posting failure posts?

TheManeMan
04-27-2009, 10:55 AM
I don't have faith in him ... yet.

He's the 2nd youngest head coach ever, he has too much power imo, and two of the three most effective people in the organization are gone since he arrived - Cutler and Goodman - and his fingerprints are all over both departures.

So I'm skeptical ... and I think skeptical is the only reasonable view to take in these circumstances.

2nd youngest?!?

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/stats/youngest_coaches.jsp

no-pseudo-fan
04-27-2009, 11:09 AM
I am a wait and see guy, but I want to say I support what he is doing. Did he pass on Raji or Jackson for Moreno? No, they were already gone. I like the Ayers pick, and it is hard to find a person that doesn't like Smith(the player not the move to acquire him). We are going to be able to score in goalline situations now. We didn't reach to draft project DL. I am kind of excited to see what the team looks like. I think that our offense creates too many mismatch problems. I also think that our defensive will be coached better, and will be put into position to make plays.

Taco John
04-27-2009, 11:15 AM
Probably a year will give me some idea. He said himself that the guys he took were taken to make an immediate impact. If they haven't then that raises questions about his selecting ability. If front seven guys we passed on look good then that's also a knock, especially if we have issues on defense. On the other hand, if the team plays better and the majority of the picks are playing well then that bodes well for his talent selection and he needs a few years to load the team with his guys.

If we're bad next year then he'll be on the hot seat on '10. If the picks look good and we're at least competing in a very tough schedule then he deserves 3 years.

I agree with this 100%

Taco John
04-27-2009, 11:23 AM
yes or no taco ( do you have any faith)

So far I see more reasons to doubt McDaniels than to believe in him. But that being said, I think he at least deserves the opportunity to pove himself.

Faith? No. I have no cause for blind faith. I have a healthy skepticism of the situation with the hopes that McDaniels will prove that skepticism unfounded. Currently, I do believe that we are further away from winning a Superbowl now than we were on January 1st of this year. It's my sincere hope that I'm wrong.

I don't have faith. I have expectations.

Tombstone RJ
04-27-2009, 11:37 AM
I'll chug the cool Aid for now, why not? Sure, my favorite QB is gone but let's all be honest here--Jay Cutler simply did not want to play for McD and he showed absolutely no maturity, at all, in the way he handled a tuff situation. He's gone, it sucks, but it's time to move on.

I like McD's draft philosophy: Get the guys you want, don't waste picks on players just to fill a need. I really, really liked it when he said "I'm not gonna draft a guy just to cut him." Right on McD. Too bad Shanny couldn't do the same thing (Marcus Nash, Paul Toviessi, and trading up in the 3rd round for Clarrett, just to name a few).

I know the Cutler fiasco has really put a damper on many fans perspectives, and rightly so. But lets see what Orton and Simms can do with a fantastic offensive line and some real weapons at their disposal.

Paladin
04-27-2009, 11:49 AM
You, the biggest Griese supporter of all time, using that metaphor? Funny.



3 of the first 4 picks were defensive players, including the top-ranked DE in the draft.



We obtained a high 2nd round for a 1st next year. They targeted a player they wanted and got him, and can begin developing that player now, instead of playing roulette next season. Risky? Sure, but this staff knew exactly what they wanted.



How could you "see" anything? We haven't held a single practice. Drafts are crap-shoots, at best. We watched Shanahan and Co. butcher up the draft and FA for most of the past decade, so let's not pretend there was some standard to live up to, here.

We've brought in something like 25 players so far to try to improve this team, and we're not even to training camp, yet.

Yes, I would have liked to have seen another DL pick on day one. But, Nolan likely didn't see anything outstanding, and conversely... the staff saw great value elsewhere. (Again, like the Eddie Royal pick... we didn't necessarily need him, but he paid off big-time.)

This looks to me like a staff doing the little things to build a proper foundation.... drafting and signing quality, good character guys, filling out STs, filling out positional needs and setting up a base to build from.

Great post, Popps.

Garcia Bronco
04-27-2009, 11:55 AM
I do have faith in him.

Paladin
04-27-2009, 11:56 AM
From what I see right now, 36% of the members of this board grouse a lot......


Down to 25%..... Lot of grousing and whining that takes up too much of the bandwidth, IMO......

Garcia Bronco
04-27-2009, 12:03 PM
Aside from trading away our Franchise Qb that took 10 years to find, Trading away our hightest draft pick we could have in 20 years for a Nickle Corner,Switching to the 3-4 but only drafting one player that might fit the scheme if we are lucky, I have all the confidence in the world in Him . Why not offer him a 10 year extention.

We can't afford to pay two 1st round picks in an uncapped year.

colonelbeef
04-27-2009, 12:03 PM
I can't even take anything I read from you on this draft seriously. McDaniels has totally upended your whole image here. You've spent so much time hammering into us, on and on and on and on about how you're all about the defensive line, the defensive front 7, yammer yammer yammer... And then we spend a draft where we give it a single look while going all over the board for Tight Ends, Runningbacks, Quarterbacks, and Defensive Backs -- and when we all get to see your take on the matter and find out that it was all just so much talk coming out of you.

It's clear that no matter what McDaniels had done in this draft, you'd have spun it as "building a proper foundation." You'd have said the same thing if he drafted all Defensive front seven guys. He'd have been praised for seeing what Shanahan couldn't see, and that it all starts up front on defense -- your viewpoint, which for what it's worth, McDaniels has pretty much panned. It's amusing to me that you caught the irony of my "tripping on the dog" crack, but you haven't yet acknowledged the irony that everything McDaniels has done to this point has pretty well busted up anything that you've ever had to say. It all starts with the defensive front line? Uh -- apparently not. McDaniels approach so far says it all starts with the running game and the defensive front 7 is an afterthought.

What I don't understand is why you'd abandon your entire football philosophy in deferrment to an approach that you've been arguing against for almost a decade: offense first, defensive secondary second, and defensive line last. It gives me pause. If you are willing to abandon ten years of stances, maybe there's more to McDaniels than I had first imagined.

Maybe you can explain it to me: What part of the approach that starts by building the offense and the defensive secondary as a priority, and hardly gives consideration to the defensive line finally converted you?

I think it's clear. They are in love.

Garcia Bronco
04-27-2009, 12:05 PM
I find it very hard to believe that Nolan would rather have no NT on this defense than any of the guys he could have gotten on day one - or even day two for that matter.

How in the hell are we going to run a 3-4 defense with no NT?

We have players that can play NT right now. Plus we are doing a hybrid defense this year, and vets will be much better than rookies.

BroncoInSkinland
04-27-2009, 12:11 PM
Oh and I am thinking about the nickname Mc_aniels if these UDFA's don't pan out. Better than McDouche?

Taco John
04-27-2009, 12:15 PM
We have players that can play NT right now.


I guess we'll see about that...

lex
04-27-2009, 12:18 PM
Oh and I am thinking about the nickname Mc_aniels if these UDFA's don't pan out. Better than McDouche?

Thats not bad. You could also go with Il Duce. You could branch off that and go with Il Douche if you want. See the two Il Duces even look alike. Check out their jaws.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/lexlucid/mussolinimcdaniels.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/lexlucid/mcdanielsmussolini.jpg

DenverBrit
04-27-2009, 12:53 PM
We have players that can play NT right now. Plus we are doing a hybrid defense this year, and vets will be much better than rookies.

I agree!

I'm curious as to which 3-4 NT was available and would start this year??

The team needs offensive weapons as well as defensive players.

Or are the Cutler leg warmers satisfied with last years 16th best offense as well as the worst D and ST combination in decades? I'm not.

It will take more than one off season to fix.

outdoor_miner
04-27-2009, 12:56 PM
I find it very hard to believe that Nolan would rather have no NT on this defense than any of the guys he could have gotten on day one - or even day two for that matter.

How in the hell are we going to run a 3-4 defense with no NT?

See - that's what allows me to have a little faith in what happened this weekend (some of which admittedly left me scratching my head). McDaniels has a DC with tons of experience whispering in his ear. Unless he's a total Napoleon, he is working with Nolan in lock-step. I highly doubt Nolan would come into a situation where he is given no say in evaluating the defense and identifying players he believes will fit his scheme. So, it only makes sense that Nolan believes that the best value on defense this year resided in the secondary, and that he has enough talent up front to make itwork.

This is further supported by Ayers comments that the Linebackers coach pretty much told him that "he was his guy". Clearly, the positional coaches are given some amount of input into this process.

DenverBrit
04-27-2009, 12:57 PM
Thats not bad. You could also go with Il Duce. You could branch off that and go with Il Douche if you want. See the two Il Duces even look alike. Check out their jaws.


Grow up!

ScottXray
04-27-2009, 01:23 PM
I'm in the Wait and See dept.

The draft has me puzzled, but others have pointed out that the top 3-4 Players taken were going to have immediate impact in at least one or more phases (O, D and ST) of the game. McD got the players he wanted, using whatever picks he needed to ensure that they got the players they wanted to both fill needs and get the BPA.

We aren't going to know how this all washes out until we are at least partway through next season, or maybe even after next season!

I couldn't say that he inspires confidence yet, but one thing is for sure....He isn't standing pat, and this Team is going to reflect HIS philosophy of football, and not what we have seen for the last few years.

It's too bad that our schedule is so tough next year....but if they are finishing the year with wins and we don't end up getting blown out a few
times along the way, I like the direction.
:thumbsup:

listopencil
05-04-2009, 01:27 PM
Hmmm..."Mc_aniels"...I like it.

Paladin
05-04-2009, 01:48 PM
:deadhorse


Are we done yet?

Crushaholic
05-04-2009, 02:12 PM
:deadhorse


Are we done yet?

It's not even summertime...

Caligula
05-04-2009, 02:46 PM
I want to give him the benefit of a doubt, but he manages not to earn it. When we were looking for a coach, I thought a 32 year old guy wouldn't have the experience to handle touchy player situations on an immature team. He tripped over the dog the first step in the door.

Now with this puzzling draft. I've watched and followed the draft every year for as long as I can remember. I can't ever remember being this dumbfounded. We need defense, and we take mostly offense. We give up first round value in order to take second rounders in a weak draft. We take TEs when we need NTs. And to make it worse, the people on this board happy to see Shanahan fired because he never drafted defense are all on here rationalizing why the smart thing to do was shun defensive players.

There were two picks this draft that I liked - the first two. The rest seem like good players, but I can't fathom what they're doing on the team when our front 7 looks so thin right now - especially the NT position.

I'm on the wait and see plan though. So far, I haven't seen anything significant that McDaniels has brought to the table that we were missing with Shanahan - and worse, I feel like we've taken steps backwards. But, I'll give him the opportunity to prove that we're moving forward. I would think that in his mind, anything less than the playoffs is a failure - and I personally feel the same way about it.


Quoted for truth...especially the red.

Caligula
05-04-2009, 02:49 PM
See - that's what allows me to have a little faith in what happened this weekend (some of which admittedly left me scratching my head). McDaniels has a DC with tons of experience whispering in his ear. Unless he's a total Napoleon, he is working with Nolan in lock-step. I highly doubt Nolan would come into a situation where he is given no say in evaluating the defense and identifying players he believes will fit his scheme. So, it only makes sense that Nolan believes that the best value on defense this year resided in the secondary, and that he has enough talent up front to make itwork.

This is further supported by Ayers comments that the Linebackers coach pretty much told him that "he was his guy". Clearly, the positional coaches are given some amount of input into this process.

Really... so you find it hard to believe that our new Coach would be arrogant enough to draft who HE wanted rather than listen to anyone else? You think he's just not that cocky?

I would actually tend to lean the other way. Listening to him brag about HIS system, you would think he invented the forward pass. He's cocky, arrogant, and believes he knows better than anyone else. He very much would ignore his coach if HE wanted a blocking TE instead of a player of need like a NT.

Jason in LA
05-04-2009, 04:31 PM
I don't have any faith in the guy, but I'll be rooting for him.

watermock
05-04-2009, 04:48 PM
Evidently "Hoodie Sr" saw enough talent to draft THREE NT's including Brace, and managed to shore up his '10 draft as well.

We won't win 3 games outside the division next year.

Br0nc0Buster
05-04-2009, 05:05 PM
Evidently "Hoodie Sr" saw enough talent to draft THREE NT's including Brace, and managed to shore up his '10 draft as well.

We won't win 3 games outside the division next year.

Pretend like we drafted Chris Baker in the 5th.
I dont think anyone would of actually complained had we done that

OBF1
05-04-2009, 05:07 PM
Evidently "Hoodie Sr" saw enough talent to draft THREE NT's including Brace, and managed to shore up his '10 draft as well.

We won't win 3 games outside the division next year.

What is it with you idiots jumping on the Hoodie bandwagon, First everyone calls him a cheat and piece of ****, Now you want our coach to follow in his foot steps.

The reason the Pat's could draft some players in this draft that WE COULD NOT is simple.... They have a NT named Vince Wilfork...ever heard of him, One of the best NT's in the NFL. They can draft projects to sit behind and learn from him, Where if the Bronco's bring in total green DT that has never played the NT position who would they learn from and how long will it take for them to even start playing ?

Shannahan and Cutler are gone and are never coming back. Deal with it or move on and find a new team to cheer for, Some of you have totally lost the reason you became a BRONCOS fan in the first place...... Mock you are excused since you are a Vikings fan anyways.

scttgrd
05-04-2009, 05:46 PM
Ah, the I can't explain it so you should find another team stance. Classic, but it still reeks of desperation.

listopencil
10-28-2009, 03:51 PM
How in the world did this not get bumped?

L'ingMAO.

Williams
10-28-2009, 04:05 PM
Evidently "Hoodie Sr" saw enough talent to draft THREE NT's including Brace, and managed to shore up his '10 draft as well.

We won't win 3 games outside the division next year.

D'oh!

tnedator
10-28-2009, 04:05 PM
How in the world did this not get bumped?

L'ingMAO.

Since you did, how many of these guys have changed their position?

No, McDouche, McIdiot, McRetard, McSatan etc. is destroying this once proud franchise.

/yardo, 24champ, anthonypacino, BABronco, bap454, Billy Clyde Puckett, BoiseBluTurf, Breaker, broncofan7, BroncoInSkinland, Caligula, cdesignmaster, colonelbeef, Connecticut Bronco Fan, cranesu, Dean, DeusExShanahan, DrFate, El Minion, Elway777, frerottenextelway, garandman, go_broncos, hambone13, Hamrob, hdtech96, Jason in McLA, Jesterhole, JWD, lander, Mecklomaniac, MileHighMagic, NagRagger, Never Trust a Snake, OrangeRising, Orbital, Peremptor, serious hops, SoCalBronco, spdavis3, SureShot, TheReverend, watermock, Willynowei, x123z

BroncoBuff
10-28-2009, 04:10 PM
I don't have faith in him ... yet.

He's the 2nd youngest head coach ever, he has too much power imo, and two of the three most effective people in the organization are gone since he arrived - Cutler and Goodman - and his fingerprints are all over both departures.

So I'm skeptical ... and I think skeptical is the only reasonable view to take in these circumstances.

Good post at the time :thumbs:

BroncoBuff
10-28-2009, 04:11 PM
Quoted for truth...especially the red.

Yes, those were very reasonable positions.

Hulamau
10-28-2009, 05:13 PM
Amazing how many "McNumbskulls" were sooooo sure Josh was a bust back then eh:-)!! No need to rub it in too much, but I have to admit its fun to have a look back .... :sunshine:

The thing is, McDaniels DID show so many characteristics, smarts and an intensity and focus on detail from the very beginning that was a HUGE WAVING FLAG that he had the makings of a truly special coach right from the beginning

And that talent was there for anyone with eyes to see and who were not too emotionally stunned and/or angry over Shanny and Cutler both taking a Swan dive off the high board back to back.

I think too many folks just got emotionally blinded by their feelings for Shanny and Cutler to see through the fog at what was staring them right in the face.

Most of us who were gung ho from the beginning didn't feel that way, and so strongly, just because we were drinking kool aid no matter what!! ... we just recognized the clear potential that is apparent now to everyone.

And that is, that we are DAMN lucky to have Pat Bowlen making such decisions and that he had the foresight and moxie to hire a 32 years old Whiz kid who is only gonna get better like a fine wine as the years pass!

If Bowlen had picked Spags or one of the other candidates for HC this year, I wouldn't have been nearly so optimistic and excited all along as I was.

I didn't know we would start this strong, and I still expect us to have a rough patch along the way with this schedule and while we continue to improve... but I'm thinking playoffs are looking VERY good right now, and even the idea of that was a joke to 95% of the football public three months ago....GO BRONCOS!

DB-Freak
10-28-2009, 05:34 PM
And that is, that we are DAMN lucky to have Pat Bowlen making such decisions and that he had the foresight and moxie to hire a 32 years old Whiz kid who is only gonna get better like a fine wine as the years pass!


Never question a man who has style to back up his moxie.

slyinky
10-28-2009, 06:06 PM
Good post at the time :thumbs:

I like my posts better. :peace:

listopencil
10-28-2009, 06:11 PM
Since you did, how many of these guys have changed their position?

No, McDouche, McIdiot, McRetard, McSatan etc. is destroying this once proud franchise.



To be honest I really did say that I wanted the details of how we got Smith, because I was going to carve them in the back of McD's skull with a rusty fork. I said it in the chat room during the draft.

slyinky
12-20-2009, 05:16 PM
Not anymore.