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View Full Version : FYI for future reference on seeing who we were interested in.


Kaylore
04-26-2009, 08:09 PM
Every player that McDaniels drafted they either met them at Dove Valley and did a private workout or attended their pro day. Sometimes they did both. 7 of the three they drafted were players that came to Dove Valley. The other three were players they interviewed and worked out.

McDaniels used all his allotted workouts (30). He said he doesn't create smoke screens and was genuinely interested in every player they looked at.

I only created this thread because it's a stark departure from Shanahan who would purposely ignore players or work guys out as a smoke screen. This is not the case with McDaniels. So next draft just look at who we bring in and we can get a clear idea of what the FO is thinking.

Beantown Bronco
04-26-2009, 08:13 PM
He said he doesn't create smoke screens and was genuinely interested in every player they looked at.



That begs the questions:

1. What picks or combo of picks and players was he willing to trade to move up for Sanchez. He said it wasn't 12 and 18.

2. If he wanted Sanchez, is he not planning on keeping Orton past this season?

ludo21
04-26-2009, 08:13 PM
I also liked how he said in his press conference that they did not draft players who were not able to compete at their respective positions.

So we can expect a lot of competition in camp this TC which will be nice to see and hopefully make our team better.

2KBack
04-26-2009, 08:15 PM
Good. I don't think the cloack and dagger **** works anyway. I want my coaches to get up close looks and workouts with the players they might want to draft.

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 08:18 PM
That begs the questions:

1. What picks or combo of picks and players was he willing to trade to move up for Sanchez. He said it wasn't 12 and 18.

2. If he wanted Sanchez, is he not planning on keeping Orton past this season?

1. I think he decided not to trade up for him just like he said he would. That doesn't mean he wouldn't take him. It just means he wouldn't trade up. He traded up for other picks and overpaid to do so in those instances. He's shown if he really wants a player he'll go after them. In this case he didn't.

2. I think he just wants competition at this point. I have doubts that his interest in Sanchez is indicative of his disappointment in either player. One mini camp doesn't tell you jack.

Beantown Bronco
04-26-2009, 08:21 PM
Fair enough. It just jumps out at me when he says that all his interest was legit, given the pure # and quality of the QBs they looked at. It doesn't exactly scream "confidence in the current stable".

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 08:23 PM
I also liked how he said in his press conference that they did not draft players who were not able to compete at their respective positions.

So we can expect a lot of competition in camp this TC which will be nice to see and hopefully make our team better.

Scheffler is gone and had a year left on his contract anyway. So the TE competition makes sense. We had the worst safeties in the league and while the old guys are an upgrade, the speed and depth is much needed. Center is up in the air. Wiegman is almost done and Hamilton doesn't fit a man scheme. Just going with Lichtensteiger doesn't leave room for injury and still leaves a hole at gaurd. In that sense the linemen make a lot of sense.

We'll see. I hope they're right.

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 08:25 PM
Fair enough. It just jumps out at me when he says that all his interest was legit, given the pure # and quality of the QBs they looked at. It doesn't exactly scream "confidence in the current stable".

Well we also worked out Curtis Painter and a number of other players. We needed another QB at one point Sanchez was projected to fall somewhat near us. They did their due diligence in looking at every position.

One thing I love is they stuck to their mantra of "tough, smart, good character guys" that he advocated on the day he was hired.

TonyR
04-26-2009, 08:25 PM
Lots of questions to ponder. Among the biggest to me are,
1) Why sign 3 RB's in FA and then draft Moreno at 12? And,
2) What the hell is the plan for the D-line?!!?

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 08:28 PM
Lots of questions to ponder. Among the biggest to me are,
1) Why sign 3 RB's in FA and then draft Moreno at 12? And,
Because I honestly believe every back on our team that wasn't those three and isn't named Hillis will be gone. That gives you four backs for the season. Those three are good, but they're not starter material and we all knew that.

2) What the hell is the plan for the D-line?!!?
I guess you go with what you have. We'll probably have to play 4-3 as we transition to what we want to do. One thing I do know: there wasn't a defensive tackle in the draft that would have made a world of difference this year. It was a bad year and even the best DT's take three years to get up to speed.

Beantown Bronco
04-26-2009, 08:32 PM
One thing I do know: there wasn't a defensive tackle in the draft that would have made a world of difference this year. It was a bad year and even the best DT's take three years to get up to speed.

So, what you are saying is, we have at least 3 more years of suckage ahead on the DLine? Longer if they don't address it next year.

Pseudofool
04-26-2009, 09:47 PM
So, what you are saying is, we have at least 3 more years of suckage ahead on the DLine? Longer if they don't address it next year.The answer to NT might not be found in the draft...

worm
04-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Every player that McDaniels drafted they either met them at Dove Valley and did a private workout or attended their pro day. Sometimes they did both. 7 of the three they drafted were players that came to Dove Valley. The other three were players they interviewed and worked out.



This strategy appears to have been what caused him to over pay.

Being the control freak he is - if he knew he wanted to draft somebody he personally interviewed, worked out or saw in Dove Valley....and he began seeing those potential picks evaporating. It looks like he got nervous and reached.

Seems like a fairly rigid approach for something as dynamic as the NFL draft.

Of course another possibility of why he reached on a number of picks is..he was channeling Bronco Billy and was drunk with power with his first day as GM. I just did another trade!!! Yaaaay!!!

tsiguy96
04-26-2009, 10:06 PM
....and he began seeing those potential picks evaporating. It looks like he got nervous and reached.
!

i think this is 100% the case, and this is truly one time where i can say experience plays a role in this. he will get better at this over the next 2-3 years but i think as of this year he was getting nervous seeing all his guys come off the boards.

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 10:07 PM
Scheffler is gone and had a year left on his contract anyway. So the TE competition makes sense. We had the worst safeties in the league and while the old guys are an upgrade, the speed and depth is much needed. Center is up in the air. Wiegman is almost done and Hamilton doesn't fit a man scheme. Just going with Lichtensteiger doesn't leave room for injury and still leaves a hole at gaurd. In that sense the linemen make a lot of sense.

We'll see. I hope they're right.

Good capsulization, that all makes sense.

But the elephant in the room ... Ayers the only front 7 pick?!

So, how many of the 30 workouts were front 7 guys? That'd be an interesting tidbit.

JCMElway
04-26-2009, 10:15 PM
So, what you are saying is, we have at least 3 more years of suckage ahead on the DLine? Longer if they don't address it next year.

It's a bit of a gamble, but I think we may have a couple of players in:

Everette Pedescleaux (Northern Iowa)

and

DT Chris Baker (Hampton.)

They mainly have character concerns, but we signed them as free agents, so no big whoop.

Also, we're going to see what Carlton Powell can do as well. So we have a possible depth chart of:

DE: Ayers/Thomas/Powell/Crowder
NT: Fields/Baker/J'vone Parker
DE: Peterson/Reid/Pedescleaux

With a 4-3 look of:

DE: Ayers/Peterson/Moss
DT:Thomas/Powell
DT:Fields/Baker
DE: Doom/Reid/Crowder

Pseudofool
04-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Good capsulization, that all makes sense.

But the elephant in the room ... Ayers the only front 7 pick?!

So, how many of the 30 workouts were front 7 guys? That'd be an interesting tidbit.You're right; that is the elephant. But the only conclusion I'm willing to draw is that they must have really disliked what was available, to ignore the need so much. They can't be happy about the lack of defensive line talent in the draft, either. Any other view colors them with the they-must-all-be-idiots meme, which is as nuanced as vanilla pudding.

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 10:22 PM
DT Chris Baker (Hampton.)


We signed Baker? That's GREAT! He is the Marcus Thomas of this draft ... I saw a story on him ... he was booted from Ohio State or something after he hurt a guy really bad in some bar fight ... had to go to Hampton. But he is very talented and has the size for NT.

This year's Marcus Thomas.

I feel MUCH better about NT ... I'll call it right now: Baker makes the team.

cutthemdown
04-26-2009, 10:30 PM
Well we also worked out Curtis Painter and a number of other players. We needed another QB at one point Sanchez was projected to fall somewhat near us. They did their due diligence in looking at every position.

One thing I love is they stuck to their mantra of "tough, smart, good character guys" that he advocated on the day he was hired.

I actually got to watch the QB play live twice. Once his JR yr, once his SR yr. He's a big guy but you will be surprised how quick he is. I think he ran a 4.95 at the combine and was in the top 5 for qbs in the 3 cone. He also had a good Shuttle time which shows he's quick and nimble.

I'm looking forward to seeing him in preseason.

cutthemdown
04-26-2009, 10:32 PM
Good capsulization, that all makes sense.

But the elephant in the room ... Ayers the only front 7 pick?!

So, how many of the 30 workouts were front 7 guys? That'd be an interesting tidbit.

This draft had only a few 5 technique DE and really only a couple true NT. It may be that Mcdaniels just didn't think the ones available were that good.

Hard to fix the whole front 7 in one offseason but hopefully Ayers can help with the pass rush.

Doom and Ayers coming from opposite ends could create some good outside pressure.

Mr Chatterboodamn
04-26-2009, 10:38 PM
I only created this thread because it's a stark departure from Shanahan who would purposely ignore players or work guys out as a smoke screen. This is not the case with McDaniels. So next draft just look at who we bring in and we can get a clear idea of what the FO is thinking.

I think it's a good practice (shock!). The draft is such a crapshoot no matter how you go about it, that I think you can only benefit from such information. At worst, even if someone jumps ahead of you to steal a player you've shown interest in, you will have also probably weeded out just as many potential bad selections beforehand. Although I didn't like the draft day trades like most, I hope this draft class turns out to be awesome. I'm definitely already excited to watch Moreno play behind our line.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 10:12 AM
Bump!

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 10:26 AM
Bump!

I'm thinking that because we signed THREE talented and undoubtedly coveted 3-4 D-line CFAs .... that you're right Khan. Josh and Nolan saw little or nothing of value in the draft for linemen, that maybe skipping over that spot was the plan. Maybe Josh was in touch with these guys' agents, "Okay agent, you and every agent in the league knows we're hurting for d-linemen. If we skip over d-line in the draft, will your guy siign here? It's his best chance to succeed."

I'm theorizing this because of an interesting story about the courting of CFAs last year concerning Tyler Polumbus ... he had 3 or 4 big-name coaches calling him the minute the draft ended, Shanahan, Tony Dungy, Mike Tomlin.

Something's gotta explain how we landed all 3 of these guys ... lots of teams are going 3-4 and are in need.

mwill07
04-27-2009, 10:31 AM
well, the obvious next question then - is there a complete list of players that McD visited personally, and/or visited Dove Valley?

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 10:33 AM
well, the obvious next question then - is there a complete list of players that McD visited personally, and/or visited Dove Valley?

Exactly. I read where there's a 30-player limit on workouts ... I wanna see the list.

broncobum6162
04-27-2009, 10:35 AM
Exactly. I read where there's a 30-player limit on workouts ... I wanna see the list.

Yea, me too. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna see da list!

~Crash~
04-27-2009, 10:36 AM
Every player that McDaniels drafted they either met them at Dove Valley and did a private workout or attended their pro day. Sometimes they did both. 7 of the three they drafted were players that came to Dove Valley. The other three were players they interviewed and worked out.

McDaniels used all his allotted workouts (30). He said he doesn't create smoke screens and was genuinely interested in every player they looked at.

I only created this thread because it's a stark departure from Shanahan who would purposely ignore players or work guys out as a smoke screen. This is not the case with McDaniels. So next draft just look at who we bring in and we can get a clear idea of what the FO is thinking.

So he tells 31 teams what we are going to do brilliant :thumbsup:

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 10:36 AM
Exactly. I read where there's a 30-player limit on workouts ... I wanna see the list.

It is done!
My buddy MUG has compiled this list over on BF.

OFFENSE

QB
Curtis Painter (Purdue) - 5th-6th Round

RBs
Knowshon Moreno (Georgia) - Early - Mid Round 1
Chris Wells (Ohio State) - Early-Mid Round 1
Donald Brown (Connecticut) - Mid-Late Round 1
Rashad Jennings (Liberty) - Early Round 2

WRs
Mike Thomas (Arizona) - Late Round 2 (also has value as a return specialist)
Eron Riley (Duke) - Late Round 3 - Round 6
Pat White (West Virginia) - Round 3 - Round 4 (Worked him out as a WR)

TE
Richard Quinn (North Carolina) - Round 6 - Undrafted FA (Badass blocking TE)

OC
Eric Wood (Louisville) - Late Round 1 - Early Round 2



DEFENSE

DTs
BJ Raji (Boston College) - Early Round 1
Roy Miller (Texas) - 5th Round - 7tth Round (Pure 2 gap NT)

OLB/DEs
Connor Barwin (Cincinnati) - Mid-Late Round 1
Robert Ayers (Tennessee) - Mid - Late Round 1
David Veikune (Hawaii) - Late Round 3 - Early Round 5
Victor Butler (Oregon State) - Round 4 - Round 6
Cody Brown (Connecticut) - Late Round 2 - Round 3
Brian Orakpo (Texas) - Early Round 1

CBs
Malcom Jenkins (Ohio State) - Early-Mid Round 1
Kevin Barnes (Maryland) - Early Round 3 - Round 4

S
Chip Vaughn (Wake Forest) - Late Round 2 - Round 3

dbfan21
04-27-2009, 10:37 AM
Gosh...it's so hard to figure out what they were thinking over the last few weeks.

Here's a question: How much would you be willing to pay to sit in on meetings at Dove Valley and listen to their draft philosophy? Me personally, I'd scrape together every penny I had and may consider selling one of my kids (j/k on that last remark).

Honestly though, it must be fascinating to watch the draft activity take place!

gyldenlove
04-27-2009, 10:38 AM
Because I honestly believe every back on our team that wasn't those three and isn't named Hillis will be gone. That gives you four backs for the season. Those three are good, but they're not starter material and we all knew that.


I guess you go with what you have. We'll probably have to play 4-3 as we transition to what we want to do. One thing I do know: there wasn't a defensive tackle in the draft that would have made a world of difference this year. It was a bad year and even the best DT's take three years to get up to speed.

I honestly believe that Torain will force his way in if he doesn't get injured again. All else being equal, there is no way you pick Jordan over Torain.

Hillis and Moreno will get the majority of the workload, that seems obvious, Buckhalter seems to be the short yardage guy and I would say Jordan/Torain will be a change of pace guy. Arrington may or may not make the team depending on how the returner duties are handled.

We are going to play 4-3 almost exclusively this year, I don't see us play 3-4 as much more than a gimmick formation. The problem with defensive linemen is that they NEVER contribute as rookies, so the longer we wait to address the issue the longer it will take for us to get just decent. Next years draft is by all accounts full of talent at DT with as many as 5 DTs who could be solid 1st round picks, but since odds are any of them will not contribute in year 1, we are looking at 2011 as the earliest year of contribution. That means another 2 years at least of defensive averageness or worse.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Here is a more up to date list.

MUGs list

OFFENSE

QB
Curtis Painter (Purdue) - 5th-6th Round

RBs
Knowshon Moreno (Georgia) - Early - Mid Round 1
Chris Wells (Ohio State) - Early-Mid Round 1
Donald Brown (Connecticut) - Mid-Late Round 1
Rashad Jennings (Liberty) - Early Round 2
Lesean Mccoy (Pittsburch) - Late Round 1, Early Round 2

WRs
Mike Thomas (Arizona) - Late Round 2 (also has value as a return specialist)
Eron Riley (Duke) - Late Round 3 - Round 6
Pat White (West Virginia) - Round 3 - Round 4 (Worked him out as a WR)

TE
Richard Quinn (North Carolina) - Round 6 - Undrafted FA (Badass blocking TE)

OC
Eric Wood (Louisville) - Late Round 1 - Early Round 2



DEFENSE

DTs
BJ Raji (Boston College) - Early Round 1
Roy Miller (Texas) - 5th Round - 7tth Round (Pure 2 gap NT)

OLB/DEs
Connor Barwin (Cincinnati) - Mid-Late Round 1
Robert Ayers (Tennessee) - Mid - Late Round 1
David Veikune (Hawaii) - Late Round 3 - Early Round 5
Victor Butler (Oregon State) - Round 4 - Round 6
Cody Brown (Connecticut) - Late Round 2 - Round 3
Brian Orakpo (Texas) - Early Round 1
Brian Cushing (USC) - Round 1
Paul Kruger (Utah) - Round 2 - Round 3

ILB
James Laurinaitis (Ohio State) - Late Round 1 - Early Round 2

CBs
Malcom Jenkins (Ohio State) - Early-Mid Round 1
Kevin Barnes (Maryland) - Early Round 3 - Round 4
Darius Butler (Connecticut) - Round 2/3
Alphonso Smith (Wake Forest) - Late Round 1 - Early Round 2

S
Chip Vaughn (Wake Forest) - Late Round 2 - Round 3
Louis Delmas (Western Michigan) - Round 2


28 of the 30 players we are allowed to meet with.

Rohirrim
04-27-2009, 10:43 AM
Here is a more up to date list.

Judging by that, he didn't conclude that DT was much of a need.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 10:44 AM
Wow .... looks like they were gonna draft a RB come heck or high water.

Beantown Bronco
04-27-2009, 10:44 AM
Richard Quinn (North Carolina) - Round 6 - Undrafted FA (Badass blocking TE)

Round 6 or later would've been nice.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 10:57 AM
Richard Quinn (North Carolina) - Round 6 - Undrafted FA (Badass blocking TE)

Round 6 or later would've been nice.

This.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 11:01 AM
Richard Quinn (North Carolina) - Round 6 - Undrafted FA (Badass blocking TE)

Round 6 or later would've been nice.

He was a third round prospect. Even in a perfect storm he doesn't make it through round four.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 11:07 AM
Judging by that, he didn't conclude that DT was much of a need.
I would say he didn't conclude that many of the defensive tackles in this draft fit our system, which again is exactly what he said. It's not like grocery shopping (Parcell's analogy notwithstanding) It's job placement. You don't just say "I need a defensive tackle" and then go to the defensive tackle aisle and grab one. A players ability to fit into a system is paramount to their success. Drafting guys that will have a role on your team and fit with what you do increases their chance for success. The Steelers are really good at this.

Rohirrim
04-27-2009, 11:12 AM
I would say he didn't conclude that many of the defensive tackles in this draft fit our system, which again is exactly what he said. It's not like grocery shopping (Parcell's analogy notwithstanding) It's job placement. You don't just say "I need a defensive tackle" and then go to the defensive tackle aisle and grab one. A players ability to fit into a system is paramount to their success. Drafting guys that will have a role on your team and fit with what you do increases their chance for success. The Steelers are really good at this.

I'll be real curious to see what his "system" is. His second pick was a DE whose forte is pass rushing from the hand in the dirt position. It seems to me that taking a guy like Ayers and putting weight on him to turn him into a 3-4 two-gap DE would be a waste of talent. And yet putting him at OLB too closely resembles what I assume they're going to do with Doom, so it seems to me a duplication of effort at the position. What I had to admit was that I have no clue what this "system" is going to be. If I had to guess right now, I would have to go with some kind of base 4-3.

BroncoMan4ever
04-27-2009, 11:15 AM
That begs the questions:

1. What picks or combo of picks and players was he willing to trade to move up for Sanchez. He said it wasn't 12 and 18.

2. If he wanted Sanchez, is he not planning on keeping Orton past this season?

i think unless Orton has a really good year, he was planned as a 1 year stop gap until a young QB took his job. i am betting that is still the issue, with Bradstrater.

also, on the Sanchez possibility. i think the interest was more on the slim chance that Sanchez actually fell to us. In a way checking to see if he was a guy that they would like to have, and the interest was genuine, but not as high as it was made out to be. More like, sure we would be interested in him if he is available when we picked, but we're not trading up for him.

outdoor_miner
04-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Here is a more up to date list.

Very interesting... They brought Orakpo in for a workout. So, they at least had initial interest. Clearly, they did not like something about him.

tsiguy96
04-27-2009, 11:41 AM
Very interesting... They brought Orakpo in for a workout. So, they at least had initial interest. Clearly, they did not like something about him.

the question with orakpo was how he converts to a 3-4. i guess nolan didnt want him, BUT on PFT during the draft it said mcdaniels was trying to move into the 13-16 spot...not sure for who though, ayers or orakpo