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View Full Version : How our DEFENSIVE LINE is shaping up ....


BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 01:35 PM
Myself and many others are confounded why we've drafted ZERO d-linemen for the 3-4, despite the fact D-Line is our weakest unit.

Here's some thoughts:

1. Nolan knows what he's doing, I believe that. If he wants 3 DBs and no nosetackles, there must be a good reason.
2. I read/heard Josh thinks Ayers "plays bigger" than his 272. So he bulks up 10 pounds and plays DE.
3. Darrell Reid was playing SOLB in minicamp, but I'm not buying it. He's 288 for heavens sake, he'll move to DE.
4. Maybe they like Marcus Thomas at DE, maybe they REALLY like him there. That would explain a LOT.
5. They must really like Ron Fields at NT. Must be true, even though he's started only 5 or 6 games in his career.
6. Maybe they LOVE Carlton Powell at NT too ... we've drafted 7 guys now and ZERO nosetackles, so they must love somebody

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 01:38 PM
Why is it so hard to understand that this draft is WEAK on 5 technique DEs and NTs??? You people just want us to draft a guy out of need rather than taking the BPA. Obviously, the staff does not care much for the crop of DL talent this year. I'd rather they take a guy they feel good about rather than reaching for need.

TheReverend
04-26-2009, 01:43 PM
We've had picks available for, but passed up:

Ron Brace
Sen'derrick Marks
Sammie Lee Hill
and Terrance Taylor

Four guys that can dominate on the defensive line.

TheReverend
04-26-2009, 01:43 PM
Why is it so hard to understand that this draft is WEAK on 5 technique DEs and NTs??? You people just want us to draft a guy out of need rather than taking the BPA. Obviously, the staff does not care much for the crop of DL talent this year. I'd rather they take a guy they feel good about rather than reaching for need.

And that's bull****.

Finger Roll
04-26-2009, 01:44 PM
agree. some people on here will always have something to complain about even if we just won the superbowl

barryr
04-26-2009, 01:44 PM
Fields was a 4th-5th round pick himself, yet idiots firmly believe there is some great catch to get that will be better than Fields or even Powell, yet another 5th round pick. Amazing. Draft one anyway, forget drfating the most talented player who believe is on the board. Yeah, that always works.

barryr
04-26-2009, 01:46 PM
We've had picks available for, but passed up:

Ron Brace
Sen'derrick Marks
Sammie Lee Hill
and Terrance Taylor

Four guys that can dominate on the defensive line.

Yeah, dominate your ass. Marks isn't even a NT type in a 3-4 and the others are projects. Fields and Powell were also 4th-5th round picks, but those other guys are guaranteed much better options. Clueless.

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 01:53 PM
And that's bull****.

No, it isn't. You simply don't know what you are talking about. The vast consensus is this is a good draft for edge rushers and poor for DTs. That's a fact. The guys you mentioned would not go where they did in a normal year. Absolute fact.

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 01:54 PM
We've had picks available for, but passed up:

Ron Brace
Sen'derrick Marks
Sammie Lee Hill
and Terrance Taylor

Four guys that can dominate on the defensive line.

Agreed ... all four would at least become immediate rotational guys.

Beats Mattias Askew and Ryan McBean, hands down.

Popps
04-26-2009, 01:55 PM
No, it isn't. You simply don't know what you are talking about. The vast consensus is this is a good draft for edge rushers and poor for DTs. That's a fact. The guys you mentioned would not go where they did in a normal year. Absolute fact.

That's pretty much what I've read, as well.

If Brace was such a sure-fire candidate, why did he last so long in the draft?

That said, he's the only guy we passed on that makes me a little nervous, only because NE took him.

But, from what I understand of Nolan's system, a big, round slob at NT isn't always a necessity. Sounds to me more like he runs a system that rotates guys around, depending on situations.

Fields is also supposed to be an excellent run-clogger.

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 01:56 PM
The vast consensus is this is a good draft for edge rushers and poor for DTs.

At the VERY TOP yes ... that's why Everette Brown lasted so long.

But there is high value in those four and others ... for example, we couldda had JARRON FREAKING GILBERT where we drafted a blocking tight end.

JARRON FREAKING GILBERT has insane upside as a 3-4 DE.

Popps
04-26-2009, 01:56 PM
I think people are also discounting the staff's words that we may indeed see plenty of 4-3 sets this year, as well.

DenverBrit
04-26-2009, 01:57 PM
Myself and many others are confounded why we've drafted ZERO d-linemen for the 3-4, despite the fact D-Line is our weakest unit.

Here's some thoughts:

1. Nolan knows what he's doing, I believe that. If he wants 3 DBs and no nosetackles, there must be a good reason.
2. I read/heard Josh thinks Ayers "plays bigger" than his 272. So he bulks up 10 pounds and plays DE.
3. Darrell Reid was playing SOLB in minicamp, but I'm not buying it. He's 288 for heavens sake, he'll move to DE.
4. Maybe they like Marcus Thomas at DE, maybe they REALLY like him there. That would explain a LOT.
5. They must really like Ron Fields at NT. Must be true, even though he's started only 5 or 6 games in his career.
6. Maybe they LOVE Carlton Powell at NT too ... we've drafted 7 guys now and ZERO nosetackles, so they must love somebody

All good thoughts. I really think we have the best collection of Defensive coaches in a long time.
McDaniels is the HC, but there can't be any doubt that Nolan is the one deciding upon defensive players.
There's a plan! ;D

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 01:59 PM
I think people are also discounting the staff's words that we may indeed see plenty of 4-3 sets this year, as well.

That would explain a lot ... our 2-deep is fairly decent for a 4-3 set.

That'd get WW on the field, too ....

cabronco
04-26-2009, 02:04 PM
i think it was the senior Bowl that I watched and saw brace basically get pushed wherever the guy wanted to take him, and to be honest I didnt see alot in raji that I would be fired up about getting either. He plays like a soft pud.

80smith
04-26-2009, 02:04 PM
I think people are also discounting the staff's words that we may indeed see plenty of 4-3 sets this year, as well.

Good point.

LonghornBronco
04-26-2009, 02:05 PM
I'll take a stab at the front 7 opeining day lineup

NT - Fields, Powell
DE - Thomas, Peterson, Reid, Ayers
ROLB - Dumerville, Moss
SOLB - Ayers, Bailey ?
ILB - Williams, AZ guy, Woody,

barryr
04-26-2009, 02:15 PM
At the VERY TOP yes ... that's why Everette Brown lasted so long.

But there is high value in those four and others ... for example, we couldda had JARRON FREAKING GILBERT where we drafted a blocking tight end.

JARRON FREAKING GILBERT has insane upside as a 3-4 DE.

NEWSFLASH: The Broncos didn't like Gilbert that much to take him there. Gilbert also has high bust potential since toughness and agressiveness are questioned and even a move to the OL had been discussed. But the Broncos should just take him even if they don't have him rated highly. Sound stuff.

orange crusher
04-26-2009, 02:18 PM
My theory is that we really won't be seeing as much 3-4 as everyone thinks. One of the first things McDaniels said was that they would play whatever best fit the players strengths. I really think we'll see a hybrid that consists of mostly 4-3, with some 3-4 looks thrown in. After the coaching staff had time to evaluate the current players, I think they just felt that they couldn't complete the transition to a 3-4 in one year. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it - I think it's the only way to keep my sanity after this draft.

STBumpkin
04-26-2009, 02:29 PM
And that's bull****.

Sorry, I'm gonna have to take a proven defensive coordinator's evaluation over your's

cmhargrove
04-26-2009, 02:31 PM
I think people are also discounting the staff's words that we may indeed see plenty of 4-3 sets this year, as well.

Bingo.

And now we have several transitional pieces to get us from 4-3 to 3-4.
Ayers, Reid, and Dumervil will probably be asked to line up at DE, but drop into coverage more often as we transition to the 3-4.

We have two NT sized bodies, and two others that can conceivably handle the job in rotation.

We will be a hybrid, which is what the coaches have alluded to all along. We just need to sit back and watch this happen.

The run game should rock, however.

Rohirrim
04-26-2009, 02:44 PM
Belichick took Brace three picks after Mac traded next year's first for Big Al Smith. But I'm sure, like some of the experts realize on this board, Belichick doesn't realize this is a ****ty draft for DTs and he's an idiot for taking one. I'm guessing Belichick doesn't know much about the position. Fortunately, I can come here where the true knowledge lurks.

BroncoMan4ever
04-26-2009, 02:48 PM
2. I read/heard Josh thinks Ayers "plays bigger" than his 272. So he bulks up 10 pounds and plays DE.


i am thinking Ayers will be our SOLB in the base 3-4 and when we switch into 4-3 allignments he will move to DE and put his hand in the dirt.

he is going to play all over and be asked to do a lot. somewhat our version of Adalius Thomas, sort of a Terrell Suggs, OLB/DE player for us.

i think his best bet would be to stay at around 275, so that he is capable of keeping speed as a LB, but also has a good amount of bulk to play on the line at DE.

Beantown Bronco
04-26-2009, 02:51 PM
Sorry, I'm gonna have to take a proven defensive coordinator's evaluation over your's

A "proven" defensive coordinator was responsible for drafting Jarvis Moss and Tim Crowder. Just sayin'.

Atlas
04-26-2009, 02:53 PM
I'll take a stab at the front 7 opeining day lineup

NT - Fields, Powell
DE - Thomas, Peterson, Reid, Ayers
ROLB - Dumerville, Moss
SOLB - Ayers, Bailey ?
ILB - Williams, AZ guy, Woody,

Powell played the run well in college but he weighs only 305 lbs.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-26-2009, 02:56 PM
I think people are also discounting the staff's words that we may indeed see plenty of 4-3 sets this year, as well.

They've always said it would be a hybrid where people would see both sets, yet everyone (and that includes the media) has interpreted that as they're moving to a 3-4 fulltime.

I think we'll still see a predominantly 4-3 team this year.

BroncoLifer
04-26-2009, 03:13 PM
At the VERY TOP yes ... that's why Everette Brown lasted so long.

But there is high value in those four and others ... for example, we couldda had JARRON FREAKING GILBERT where we drafted a blocking tight end.

JARRON FREAKING GILBERT has insane upside as a 3-4 DE.


With your insane player evaluation skills, why don't you get off the internet and take that NFL front office job you so obviously deserve?

It's a real shame to see such special talent wasted.

BroncoMan4ever
04-26-2009, 03:23 PM
They've always said it would be a hybrid where people would see both sets, yet everyone (and that includes the media) has interpreted that as they're moving to a 3-4 fulltime.

I think we'll still see a predominantly 4-3 team this year.

i agree. i think as the season goes on we will use the 3-4 more and more, but we are still going to see a lot of 4-3

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 03:27 PM
They've always said it would be a hybrid where people would see both sets, yet everyone (and that includes the media) has interpreted that as they're moving to a 3-4 fulltime.

I think we'll still see a predominantly 4-3 team this year.

Well, McD did state recently that we would normally only have 5 or 6 DL active on gameday. If that's the case, we will be going 3-4 more often than not.

oubronco
04-26-2009, 03:34 PM
Why is it so hard to understand that this draft is WEAK on 5 technique DEs and NTs??? You people just want us to draft a guy out of need rather than taking the BPA. Obviously, the staff does not care much for the crop of DL talent this year. I'd rather they take a guy they feel good about rather than reaching for need.

I suppose the TE they took was BPA right :thumbsup:

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 03:38 PM
I suppose the TE they took was BPA right :thumbsup:

I didn't like that pick either. However, there is a need for better production out of short yardage and red zone offense. Quinn paired with Graham in those packages has the chance to improve those results. So, yes, it fits a need. Like I said though, I didn't like that pick, but every other pick we made addressed a need.

gyldenlove
04-26-2009, 03:39 PM
I think we will se a hybrid this year. We will play 4-3 exclusively, but a few talking heads will from time to time call us a 3-4 team, hence the hybrid.

The logic that you shouldn't take a DL player if you don't think he has value is flawed. Even if this is a weak year for DL, there will be several good DL players out of this draft, by not selecting a single one we have mathematically eliminated our chances of getting one of those players.

If Fields is really that good, then I still wonder why he didn't play when Nolan was HC in San Fran, it is not like he was facing particularly qualified competition. He didn't even get an offer from his previous DC who became head coach. I think that says something about just how much he has shown.

Jvonne Parker is at best camp fodder, at worst he is the next Engelberger.

Mcdaniels said himself that he is not sure how Marcus Thomas fits in, so hopes aren't exactly bright for his future.

Mcbean, Clemons, Peterson are all scrubs, no other team wanted them. Rookie DLs never contribute, so Ayers won't do much this year, and since we don't have any other new faces, fat chance that we get any contribution from young DLs next year.

At least we have a ton of defensive backs, maybe we can play 0-4 and have 7 DBs on the field.

TheReverend
04-26-2009, 03:39 PM
Yeah, dominate your ass. Marks isn't even a NT type in a 3-4 and the others are projects. Fields and Powell were also 4th-5th round picks, but those other guys are guaranteed much better options. Clueless.

When did I say Marks would play nose?!? God you get dumber with every breath you take.

gyldenlove
04-26-2009, 03:40 PM
I didn't like that pick either. However, there is a need for better production out of short yardage and red zone offense. Quinn paired with Graham in those packages has the chance to improve those results. So, yes, it fits a need. Like I said though, I didn't like that pick, but every other pick we made addressed a need.

Did we really need a young strong safety who looks the part but lacks instincts, misses tackles and couldn't cover a small table with a large cloth? Because I could swear that is why we have Josh Barrett.

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 03:44 PM
Did we really need a young strong safety who looks the part but lacks instincts, misses tackles and couldn't cover a small table with a large cloth? Because I could swear that is why we have Josh Barrett.

It was the 4th round, dude. All of those players have serious question marks, or else they would have gone way higher.

oubronco
04-26-2009, 03:55 PM
I think we will se a hybrid this year. We will play 4-3 exclusively, but a few talking heads will from time to time call us a 3-4 team, hence the hybrid.

The logic that you shouldn't take a DL player if you don't think he has value is flawed. Even if this is a weak year for DL, there will be several good DL players out of this draft, by not selecting a single one we have mathematically eliminated our chances of getting one of those players.

If Fields is really that good, then I still wonder why he didn't play when Nolan was HC in San Fran, it is not like he was facing particularly qualified competition. He didn't even get an offer from his previous DC who became head coach. I think that says something about just how much he has shown.

Jvonne Parker is at best camp fodder, at worst he is the next Engelberger.

Mcdaniels said himself that he is not sure how Marcus Thomas fits in, so hopes aren't exactly bright for his future.

Mcbean, Clemons, Peterson are all scrubs, no other team wanted them. Rookie DLs never contribute, so Ayers won't do much this year, and since we don't have any other new faces, fat chance that we get any contribution from young DLs next year.

At least we have a ton of defensive backs, maybe we can play 0-4 and have 7 DBs on the field.

which means 5-11 or 6-10 at best

oubronco
04-26-2009, 03:56 PM
It was the 4th round, dude. All of those players have serious question marks, or else they would have gone way higher.

then why not try a DT instead :wave:

TheReverend
04-26-2009, 04:43 PM
No, it isn't. You simply don't know what you are talking about. The vast consensus is this is a good draft for edge rushers and poor for DTs. That's a fact. The guys you mentioned would not go where they did in a normal year. Absolute fact.

Oh, you're absolutely right. That's why those fools in New England used their picks to make a run on DTs and grab THREE.

What a bunch of rubes!

yerner
04-26-2009, 04:52 PM
So now the broncos don't need any defensive lineman? And they couldn't find any in the last four rounds? Really?

tnedator
04-26-2009, 04:59 PM
So now the broncos don't need any defensive lineman? And they couldn't find any in the last four rounds? Really?

Could they find any that were better than are currently on the roster? That's the question. Clearly, Nolan and McDaniels don't think so. I'm surprised we only drafted one front seven player, but they must see something in those players that we don't.

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 05:04 PM
With your insane player evaluation skills, why don't you get off the internet and take that NFL front office job you so obviously deserve?

Thanks very much, I'm glad you noticed.

I might consider that, but for now I already have a job.

Popps
04-26-2009, 05:13 PM
Sorry to break up the pity party, but anyone who's wondering if we did anything to improve the front seven should check this out...

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First, watch at 3:12. He's lined up as a DT and absolutely blows by the G to force the QB out of the pocket.

Then, watch two plays later. He's standing up as what looks like an OLB, and friggin' levels the ball-carrier.

Then, back to DE.

Looks like they moved this kid everywhere.

Some of you crybabies might want to dry the tears long enough to get a little excited about our first potential impact DL player drafted since Trevor Pryce.

chrisp
04-26-2009, 05:14 PM
I think people are also discounting the staff's words that we may indeed see plenty of 4-3 sets this year, as well.

Amen! We just assume that these fence-sitting statements are just a smokescreen, but actions speak louder than words..

Before the draft we had to know we weren't going to get our NT this year. We have a couple of players that might be able to do it on the roster already but they need time to show if they can do it or not, so perhaps we're only going to tinker with the gap assignments and move people like Elvis back and forth from the d-line on occasion, and perhaps actually not overhaul the defense as much as you might think.

I am in no way shape or form an expert in breaking down game tape, but my abiding memories of the few games I managed to watch on TV last year was that our d-line actually wasn't the worst: we got a fair number of short-yardage stops and the like, but the real horrorshow was whenever anyone broke through the line into the backers and secondary....linebacker and safety play was beyond awful last season, and may in fact have made an average to good d-line look awful....

(yes I do realise I will get flamed worse than Joan of Arc for using the words 'good' and 'd-line' in the same sentence.....)

RocBronc
04-26-2009, 05:14 PM
Regardless if player X is worth pick Y or any of that stuff.... Let's change the debate to what really matters.. That being how can anyone say that this defense after FA and the draft is that much better than last years? Not only talent wise but all of the players will be playing a new scheme (a disadvantage) that isn't suited to several of the players. Even if you say that the offense won't be any worse than last years which is a stretch without Cutler (I like Orton more than most BTW). You're looking at a sub .500 team.

elsid13
04-26-2009, 05:48 PM
Wonder if some would be so calm if Tampa didn't jump Denver and select the QB from Kansas State. I have strange feeling Tampa felt that Denver was going QB in the first if he was available.

Old Dude
04-26-2009, 05:56 PM
I'm just mystified how they can seriously plan on fielding a 3-4 defense with only one NT. Something is missing here.

Br0nc0Buster
04-26-2009, 05:56 PM
Regardless if player X is worth pick Y or any of that stuff.... Let's change the debate to what really matters.. That being how can anyone say that this defense after FA and the draft is that much better than last years? Not only talent wise but all of the players will be playing a new scheme (a disadvantage) that isn't suited to several of the players. Even if you say that the offense won't be any worse than last years which is a stretch without Cutler (I like Orton more than most BTW). You're looking at a sub .500 team.

The scheme we ran last year didnt benefit anyone.

If we kept the same personel our defense would be better simply because we actually have competent coaches on that side of the ball.

We have upgraded both in talent and coaching on defense.
We may have not done as much as some would of liked at once, but any reasonable person would of known it is going to take at least a few years to fix this defense.

Not only was our talent bad, but we would constantly give other teams more than they earned by constant whiffing and over pursuing.

Br0nc0Buster
04-26-2009, 05:57 PM
I'm just mystified how they can seriously plan on fielding a 3-4 defense with only one NT. Something is missing here.

I imagine Powell, Fields, and Thomas are all going to get a look at NT

barryr
04-26-2009, 05:58 PM
I bet Tampa did think the Broncos would take Freeman, but I doubt the Broncos would have taken him.

Old Dude
04-26-2009, 06:01 PM
I imagine Powell, Fields, and Thomas are all going to get a look at NT

Fields is an NT. No problem there. But they need a backup. Has Thomas or Powell ever even played the position? Why not spend at least a late 4th round pick on someone who has? Instead, they bolster their TE, Safety and Interior line positions. And they never do address the NT. Are they THAT confident in Thomas and/or Powell?

Seems crazy.

Br0nc0Buster
04-26-2009, 06:07 PM
Fields is an NT. No problem there. But they need a backup. Has Thomas or Powell ever even played the position? Why not spend at least a late 4th round pick on someone who has? Instead, they bolster their TE, Safety and Interior line positions. And they never do address the NT. Are they THAT confident in Thomas and/or Powell?

Seems crazy.

I am perplexed as well.
However Powell I think players much "bigger" than his size indicates.
His run stuffing ability was almost super human in college, and he played under 300
I imagine they will ask him to bulk up, but I dont think he is a guy that has to get at 320 to hold the point of attack.

McDaniels made a comment a while back about how young our defensive line was, and he talked about how they still had room to grow and improve.
His reasoning behind passing on linemen this year could be to wait and see what hes got as opposed to drafting guys just to fill up spots and finding out they may or may not be better than what we already have.

I would of preferred he get a NT, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt

DenverBrit
04-26-2009, 06:08 PM
I bet Tampa did think the Broncos would take Freeman, but I doubt the Broncos would have taken him.

You're right, he's the type of QB that doesn't fit McDaniels criteria: consistently good decisions throwing the rock.

TheDave
04-26-2009, 06:09 PM
Fields is an NT. No problem there. But they need a backup. Has Thomas or Powell ever even played the position? Why not spend at least a late 4th round pick on someone who has? Instead, they bolster their TE, Safety and Interior line positions. And they never do address the NT. Are they THAT confident in Thomas and/or Powell?

Seems crazy.

They have to be... That's why I keep saying that this staff must feel VERY different about our current roster than we do.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2009, 06:16 PM
I think people are also discounting the staff's words that we may indeed see plenty of 4-3 sets this year, as well.

when we can't stop **** again this year who are you going to blame?

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2009, 06:26 PM
Mike Nolan knows how to shift defenses around like no other. He tweaks stuff all the time that seems to work - I am excited to see what he can do with this unit as he knows how to put in players to control the line of scrimmage. His defensese are infamous for getting beat deep or giving up a big play only b/c they are so focused on the flats and mid-range game. Ray Lewis was his project as was Ed Reed. I think he's drooling at the opportunity to have a ballhawk CB and a stud DE/OLB in this draft.

Trust me guys, we may give up a few big plays, but for the most part, the defense will be ridiculously better than last years unit.

Drek
04-26-2009, 07:09 PM
At the VERY TOP yes ... that's why Everette Brown lasted so long.

But there is high value in those four and others ... for example, we couldda had JARRON FREAKING GILBERT where we drafted a blocking tight end.

JARRON FREAKING GILBERT has insane upside as a 3-4 DE.

If so then why did he get drafted by a 4-3 team in the 3rd round?

You'd think at least one 3-4 team would've sprung on him right?

Five of the last seven teams to pick before Chicago took him were 3-4 or 3-4 hybrid defenses. None of them cared to take him. What does that tell you?

Oh, you're absolutely right. That's why those fools in New England used their picks to make a run on DTs and grab THREE.

What a bunch of rubes!

Man that was a hell of a run. Stretched from the early 2nd all the way into the late 7th.

At least I'm assuming thats what you mean, since after Brace NE didn't take another DL player until pick 207, and the third at pick 234.

TheReverend
04-26-2009, 07:18 PM
Man that was a hell of a run. Stretched from the early 2nd all the way into the late 7th.

At least I'm assuming thats what you mean, since after Brace NE didn't take another DL player until pick 207, and the third at pick 234.

That'd be cool if that had ANYTHING to do with it.

NE spent over 30% of their picks on DTs in a class that has "****ty 3-4 linemen".

Finger Roll
04-26-2009, 07:35 PM
How do you people think Thomas will play at DE?

gyldenlove
04-26-2009, 07:40 PM
How do you people think Thomas will play at DE?

Thomas will play at DT. We are going to be playing a 40 front very very often this year. I presume the starting formation will be Thomas and Powell in the middle with Ayers and Dumervil rotating at RDE and Peterson and Crowder swapping at LDE.

serious hops
04-26-2009, 07:45 PM
It's great to say that they may be satisfied with what we have, and I won't discount the possibility that Nunnelly might be able to get more out of a few of those guys than the previous hacks, but it sure would've been nice to at least bring in some competition besides Ayers. Shouldn't surprise anyone, though-- Nolan invested a lot more heavily in the back seven than the line when he was the big cheese in San Fran. Looks to me like he prefers to build the defense from the back forward (haven't we seen that movie before?), and IMO this draft has his fingerprints all over it.

Taco John
04-26-2009, 07:49 PM
Why is it so hard to understand that this draft is WEAK on 5 technique DEs and NTs???


Why is it hard to understand that we have no NT on a defense that requires a NT?

Old Dude
04-26-2009, 07:51 PM
The thing is that even if we assume they are going to take a "hybrid" approach and play a 4-3 75% of the time - - they STILL need someone who can play NT if Fields gets hurt. Otherwise, there is no 3/4, period.

So they MUST have someone mind as a backup NT. I dunno. Maybe they plan on letting Thomas and Powell battle it out.

serious hops
04-26-2009, 07:55 PM
Forget the 3-4, guys, we're going with the dime as our base defense this year. That's why we took all those DBs.

Rohirrim
04-26-2009, 08:01 PM
Sorry to break up the pity party, but anyone who's wondering if we did anything to improve the front seven should check this out...

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First, watch at 3:12. He's lined up as a DT and absolutely blows by the G to force the QB out of the pocket.

Then, watch two plays later. He's standing up as what looks like an OLB, and friggin' levels the ball-carrier.

Then, back to DE.

Looks like they moved this kid everywhere.

Some of you crybabies might want to dry the tears long enough to get a little excited about our first potential impact DL player drafted since Trevor Pryce.

Damn. I might have to buy me a 91. ;D

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 08:05 PM
This guy really shot up the draft boards ... three weeks ago I drafted him for the chefs at #36 in the Mock Draft.

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 08:06 PM
Wow ... our new DE intercepted the #1 pick in the draft!

4:28

Rohirrim
04-26-2009, 08:07 PM
I just found out that Detroit got Zach Follett with one our 7th round picks. :oyvey:

chadta
04-27-2009, 05:50 AM
Forget the 3-4, guys, we're going with the dime as our base defense this year. That's why we took all those DBs.

i was thinking the quarter

hey it always works for me in madden

Atwater His Ass
04-27-2009, 06:05 AM
Why is it hard to understand that we have no NT on a defense that requires a NT?

It's the laced kool-aid these guys are drinking. Refuse to acknowledge what is really happening whiel sucking FO dick the whole way. Only real fans can do that yo.

cmhargrove
04-27-2009, 07:18 AM
Sorry to break up the pity party, but anyone who's wondering if we did anything to improve the front seven should check this out...

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First, watch at 3:12. He's lined up as a DT and absolutely blows by the G to force the QB out of the pocket.

Then, watch two plays later. He's standing up as what looks like an OLB, and friggin' levels the ball-carrier.

Then, back to DE.

Looks like they moved this kid everywhere.

Some of you crybabies might want to dry the tears long enough to get a little excited about our first potential impact DL player drafted since Trevor Pryce.

I'll have to admit, he is a very intruguing player. Hopefully Nunnely is the guy to polish his skills.

He can beat about any type of block, using speed and power. He is actually very quick into the backfield. And, if you noticed from the film, he actually plays some "stand up" assignments on the end of the line which means he will be great in our hybrid defense. He can compete for SOLB and DE, and is also very dangerous when they move him inside on passing downs.

If he pans out, it will be a great pick. Good skill set and body type.

Drek
04-27-2009, 08:04 AM
That'd be cool if that had ANYTHING to do with it.

NE spent over 30% of their picks on DTs in a class that has "****ty 3-4 linemen".

It does have ****ty 3-4 linemen, thats why they didn't take two of them until the last 40 picks in the draft, guys who probably won't make it through preseason on the Patriots roster.

If you think using a late 6th and late 7th on a couple DLs constitutes faith in the talent pool, then I'd like for you to start sharing what you're smoking. Belichick outright said in an interview leading up to the draft that he thought this year's talent pool was very weak, so its not like him selecting anyone in this class is a huge sign of confidence. They spent much of the day stockpiling future picks.

Mediator12
04-27-2009, 08:17 AM
What this draft says to me is this:

1. They think they have talent along the DL to play their scheme, they really think they have been misused, underdeveloped, and poorly coached. I concur that all those things are true, but I disagree that talent was not part of the problem in the front seven. They are taking an awful chance that these DL and LB's are capable of running their sytem when the whistle blows in August for Preseason.

2. LB is also not getting any love from this draft. Which Is Freaking Crazy IMHO! While I am not against some of the LB's on this team, I just do not see how they hold up over a game an a season being undersized to their new responsibilities. This team faded all together too much down the stretch and size had a lot to do with that.

3. I think people forget that NE used a 3 TE formation an awful lot to run the ball and mix things up. The TE's on the roster outside Graham are not useful RedZone Blockers or dual threats. I get Why they wanted Quinn, But he must have been a lot more valuable than the pundits realized to move up that far to get him.

3. Robert Ayers is the same versatile prospect that Tyson Jackson displays. The real difference is that Jackson has a much better body of work than Ayers. Ayers can Play LDE and inside DT in the nickel pass rush. He is very adept at the skillset for a 5 tech as he has good power at the POA and Can set the edge in the run. I just wonder how quickly he can impact for this team. He reminds me of a less experienced Crowder. Same frame, similar skillset, mental issues with consistency.

4. Finally, it is apparent that DEN still intends to win with Offense this year by putting the majority of its resources into building that scheme. That is no surprise with McDaniels pulling the strings. I believe they think a better schemed and coached Defense will get them to average this year like many had hoped would happen last year preseason. Its way too early to jump one way or the other, but that approach looks imminent. I just hope it works!

gunns
04-27-2009, 08:19 AM
That's pretty much what I've read, as well.

If Brace was such a sure-fire candidate, why did he last so long in the draft?

That said, he's the only guy we passed on that makes me a little nervous, only because NE took him.

But, from what I understand of Nolan's system, a big, round slob at NT isn't always a necessity. Sounds to me more like he runs a system that rotates guys around, depending on situations.

Fields is also supposed to be an excellent run-clogger.

Time is a great soother. While I'm still leery of McDaniels, as with Shanahan I will give these players...and the coaches a chance. I will be very interested to see what Nolan does with these guys and I'm getting more hopeful everyday. The only sentence I do not agree with in your post is about Brace. There are plenty of players that fall and turn out to be great and after watching NE maneuver I have to say I have more respect for Belichick in the draft. That being said, it should be an interesting year. Still mad about the 2010 1st rounder though.

broncobum6162
04-27-2009, 08:20 AM
Myself and many others are confounded why we've drafted ZERO d-linemen for the 3-4, despite the fact D-Line is our weakest unit.

Here's some thoughts:

1. Nolan knows what he's doing, I believe that. If he wants 3 DBs and no nosetackles, there must be a good reason.
2. I read/heard Josh thinks Ayers "plays bigger" than his 272. So he bulks up 10 pounds and plays DE.
3. Darrell Reid was playing SOLB in minicamp, but I'm not buying it. He's 288 for heavens sake, he'll move to DE.
4. Maybe they like Marcus Thomas at DE, maybe they REALLY like him there. That would explain a LOT.
5. They must really like Ron Fields at NT. Must be true, even though he's started only 5 or 6 games in his career.
6. Maybe they LOVE Carlton Powell at NT too ... we've drafted 7 guys now and ZERO nosetackles, so they must love somebody

Great thread, one of the best so far. We can only hope that what you are saying is true cause at this point we have what we have. I hope you are right cause if not, we are really gonna suck at defense again next year.

Old Dude
04-27-2009, 08:59 AM
UFDA Chris Baker is a guy, much like Thomas, who might have been a 2nd round pick, but for character issues and immaturity. Googling him up, I found a lot of draft discussions where people were speculating that he might be a bargain in the 5th or 6th round. The character issue in his case seems to involve anger management rather than drugs, and he's had a year or two to mature. (Ayers had an off-field incident as well, then straightened up his act.)

So there's one possibility for a backup. But you still have to think that the staff is satisfied with Thomas or Powell because Baker is still an awful big roll of the dice.

I suppose that if they really are employing a flexible "hybrid" approach, they simply can't invest too many of their resources in 3/4 "specialized backups." Instead, they are more likely to try to find backup guys who can be an "adequate" player in either scheme. Maybe that's where Powell and Thomas fall.

chickennob2
04-27-2009, 09:39 AM
from: http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8987

'"I was telling my family, 'I think Denver is the team waiting just for me,'" Ayers said. "When I met with (Linebackers) Coach (Don) Martindale (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=9615), he pretty much told me I was his guy, but you try to not get your hopes too high. You try to just go along with it, try not to get too high.'


So if the linebackers coach tells him he's his guy, doesn't this indicate Ayers will be playing more at an OLB spot than the 5-tech?

TheReverend
04-27-2009, 10:04 AM
It does have ****ty 3-4 linemen, thats why they didn't take two of them until the last 40 picks in the draft, guys who probably won't make it through preseason on the Patriots roster.

If you think using a late 6th and late 7th on a couple DLs constitutes faith in the talent pool, then I'd like for you to start sharing what you're smoking. Belichick outright said in an interview leading up to the draft that he thought this year's talent pool was very weak, so its not like him selecting anyone in this class is a huge sign of confidence. They spent much of the day stockpiling future picks.

You're absolutely right. NE of all teams doesn't think there's any value to late round picks... especially sixth rounders... :spit:

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 11:49 AM
from: http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=8987

'"I was telling my family, 'I think Denver is the team waiting just for me,'" Ayers said. "When I met with (Linebackers) Coach (Don) Martindale (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=9615), he pretty much told me I was his guy, but you try to not get your hopes too high. You try to just go along with it, try not to get too high.'


So if the linebackers coach tells him he's his guy, doesn't this indicate Ayers will be playing more at an OLB spot than the 5-tech?

Yeah, looks like that ... but then why would McD say Ayers "plays bigger" than his size?

eddie mac
04-27-2009, 12:07 PM
And that's bull****.

Is it really???

Then tell me why there were only 2 5-tech projected DL players taken by 3-4 teams between the 10th pick and the end of the 4th rd.

Furthermore tell me why so called superstud 5 tech players such as Gilbert, Moala, Hill, Scott, Jerry, Marks, Knighton, Miller, Irvin and Taylor all ended up on 4-3 teams between Rd's 1 and 4???

Yes this was a Super draft for 5-tech players. The evidence is right there supporting another great argument from your goodself.

Bronco Yoda
04-27-2009, 12:07 PM
Mike Nolan knows how to shift defenses around like no other. He tweaks stuff all the time that seems to work - I am excited to see what he can do with this unit as he knows how to put in players to control the line of scrimmage. His defensese are infamous for getting beat deep or giving up a big play only b/c they are so focused on the flats and mid-range game. Ray Lewis was his project as was Ed Reed. I think he's drooling at the opportunity to have a ballhawk CB and a stud DE/OLB in this draft.

Trust me guys, we may give up a few big plays, but for the most part, the defense will be ridiculously better than last years unit.

Now that's the type of feel good rah, rah I needed. I don't necessarily believe it but I'll take it and head off in a better mood. :sunshine:

Have a great day everyone :peace:

eddie mac
04-27-2009, 12:12 PM
That'd be cool if that had ANYTHING to do with it.

NE spent over 30% of their picks on DTs in a class that has "****ty 3-4 linemen".

We got similar quality if not better 3-4 linemen in UDFA than they drafted at those picks.

broncosteven
04-27-2009, 12:13 PM
... ... we've drafted 7 guys now and ZERO nosetackles, so they must love somebody

In a pinch Gene can play NT, DE, ILB, goalie, G/C, FB on a good day and kick Jim Otto style.

TheReverend
04-27-2009, 12:20 PM
Is it really???

Then tell me why there were only 2 5-tech projected DL players taken by 3-4 teams between the 10th pick and the end of the 4th rd.

Furthermore tell me why so called superstud 5 tech players such as Gilbert, Moala, Hill, Scott, Jerry, Marks, Knighton, Miller, Irvin and Taylor all ended up on 4-3 teams between Rd's 1 and 4???

Yes this was a Super draft for 5-tech players. The evidence is right there supporting another great argument from your goodself.

...Because a lot of them went as UTs and some went as NTs... it's kind of how that works... like some potential hybrid OLBs went as DE's and some others went as SAMs.

Was this a serious post?

brncobrett
04-27-2009, 12:26 PM
Maybe their still thinking about making a play for Peppers?? Now wouldn't that change everything........?

Old Dude
04-27-2009, 01:06 PM
I think we're broke.

Rohirrim
04-27-2009, 01:19 PM
I think we're broke.

The fear nobody wants to speak.

lex
04-27-2009, 01:22 PM
The fear nobody wants to speak.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Bowlen needs to get out of the game but he wont.

summerdenver
04-27-2009, 01:23 PM
Is it really???

Furthermore tell me why so called superstud 5 tech players such as Gilbert, Moala, Hill, Scott, Jerry, Marks, Knighton, Miller, Irvin and Taylor all ended up on 4-3 teams between Rd's 1 and 4???



Other than Gilbert none of the others project as 5 tech. Bears took him to play the UT role (shot the gaps) and spell Tommy Harris.

Prototype 5 Tech for 3-4 is 6-4 or taller with long arms as they need to gain leverage against OTs. Their main job is to not rush the passer but to hold the edge so you want them to be stronger and preferably 290+ as they have to hold the edge. Most of the guys you mentioned do not project as 5 techs IMHO.

eddie mac
04-27-2009, 01:27 PM
Other than Gilbert none of the others project as 5 tech. Bears took him to play the UT role (shot the gaps) and spell Tommy Harris.

Prototype 5 Tech for 3-4 is 6-4 or taller with long arms as they need to gain leverage against OTs. Their main job is to not rush the passer but to hold the edge so you want them to be stronger and preferably 290+ as they have to hold the edge. Most of the guys you mentioned do not project as 5 techs IMHO.

So wtf are people yapping we never drafted any of these players???

elsid13
04-27-2009, 04:38 PM
Other than Gilbert none of the others project as 5 tech. Bears took him to play the UT role (shot the gaps) and spell Tommy Harris.

Prototype 5 Tech for 3-4 is 6-4 or taller with long arms as they need to gain leverage against OTs. Their main job is to not rush the passer but to hold the edge so you want them to be stronger and preferably 290+ as they have to hold the edge. Most of the guys you mentioned do not project as 5 techs IMHO.

I sorry but I going to disagree with you on a lot of the players. Hill, Scott, Knighton weren't going to be DEs in this system, they would have kicked inside and played the nose (zero technique). They have the body to hold the point of attack and each of the teams that drafted them - Chicago, Jax and St. Louis - are going to expect them to play two gap and control the line. All three would have be very good picks to start depth in hybrid defense that denver might be playing.