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View Full Version : Denver's yearly phobia of drafting DL


NFLBRONCO
04-26-2009, 12:31 PM
What is it with Denver and avoiding DL this year after year. Our DL has been awful forever would it hurt to at least TRY a player or two in theis draft. If they bust they bust but, at least the attempt was made to improve a weak link. I think most fans would just be pleased with effort of DL instead of doing nothing this year.

I understand this draft is weak at DL but, we are so bad on DL I don't think it would hurt bolstering it with one or two selections.

rugbythug
04-26-2009, 12:33 PM
Go back and look at the draft 2 years ago.

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 12:34 PM
2007 - 3 out of 4 picks.

I agree this year is crazy-D-line-phobic ... but there's no history

barryr
04-26-2009, 12:35 PM
What the hell are you talking about? They have drafted DL high in the draft, yet they don't seem to pan out. Bad choices and poor position coaching on the DL has been the problem.

barryr
04-26-2009, 12:38 PM
Not just Moss, Crowder, and Thomas, but the Broncos under Shahanan also drafted Dorsett Davis in the 3rd round, Nick Eason in the 3rd round, Paul Toveissi in the 2nd or 3rd, and Hayworth in the 3rd. And I remember some stiff named Campbell from Florida in the 3rd round several years ago too. Other than Hayworth, who left in free agency, has these guys been considered solid picks to this point?

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 12:39 PM
This year was different because it was one of the worst defensive tackle drafts in years.

SoCalBronco
04-26-2009, 12:40 PM
It was an abomination and an embarassment of biblical proportions. This was the biggest problem. You can't pussy out of it by saying "oh well, we didnt like who was there when we picked". That's bull****. Get over it. You work with the talent. You give up an extra third to get Raji, since you are willing to piss away everything else. Or you give up an extra third to get Brace. Or you just draft the 3-4 skill set players in the later rounds EVEN if you aren't totally in love with them. There's dozens and dozens of DL prospects. You HAVE to find someone you can at least work with. Don't tell me there's no one at all that they feel will fit their system. If that's the case, then change the ****ing system. They're NFL coaches for pete's sake. They're supposed to work with flawed talent and make them useful and help to cover up their flaws. Anyone can work with a perfect prototype prospect. They don't grow on trees. You work with what's available and make them better. That's what a good coach, does. You don't sit back and cry that no one really fits or is really that great. It's not like your spending a first on them. It's Day Two. It's not going to kill you if they dont pan out but you have to at least TRY to get some 3-4 DL prospects in here and work with them. They failed in that task. They utterly failed. They are a failure. What's wrong with bringing in Scott and working with him? What's wrong with bringing in Taylor and working through his flaws? How bout bringing in Hill and giving him some pro coaching to help him out? We have NOTHING on the line. NOTHING that fits the 3-4. They did a nice job of addressing the SOLB spot but nothing on the line. They're asking for suicide if they expect Thomas, Peterson and either Powell or Fields to keep people off LBs. They're going to get thrown in the LB's laps all game every game. You don't have one guy there that people are scared of. There isn't one guy there that commands a double team. They needed to address it, even with flawed prospects. If they didn't want to address it high, then they could have addressed it later, with little risk since it was Day Two.

The LBs are going to have a HELL of a time trying to play in front of this group. The coaches set them up to fail. They set them up to fail. They needed help. We needed help so bad in that area. And we could have had it...even if the help wasnt perfect. It's ok...BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS.

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 12:40 PM
This year was different because it was one of the worst defensive tackle drafts in years.

Exactly. Why is this so hard to understand? We are drafting where the value is.

NFLBRONCO
04-26-2009, 12:41 PM
Not just Moss, Crowder, and Thomas, but the Broncos under Shahanan also drafted Dorsett Davis in the 3rd round, Nick Eason in the 3rd round, Paul Toveissi in the 2nd or 3rd, and Hayworth in the 3rd. Other than Hayworth, who left in free agency, has these guys been considered solid picks to this point?

I totally forget about Moss and Crowder lol. FA I understand.

Ambiguous
04-26-2009, 12:46 PM
It was an abomination and an embarassment of biblical proportions. This was the biggest problem. You can't p***Y out of it by saying "oh well, we didnt like who was there when we picked". That's bull****. Get over it. You work with the talent. You give up an extra third to get Raji, since you are willing to piss away everything else. Or you give up an extra third to get Brace. Or you just draft the 3-4 skill set players in the later rounds EVEN if you aren't totally in love with them. There's dozens and dozens of DL prospects. You HAVE to find someone you can at least work with. Don't tell me there's no one at all that they feel will fit their system. If that's the case, then change the ****ing system. They're NFL coaches for pete's sake. They're supposed to work with flawed talent and make them useful and help to cover up their flaws. Anyone can work with a perfect prototype prospect. They don't grow on trees. You work with what's available and make them better. That's what a good coach, does. You don't sit back and cry that no one really fits or is really that great. It's not like your spending a first on them. It's Day Two. It's not going to kill you if they dont pan out but you have to at least TRY to get some 3-4 DL prospects in here and work with them. They failed in that task. They utterly failed. They are a failure. What's wrong with bringing in Scott and working with him? What's wrong with bringing in Taylor and working through his flaws? How bout bringing in Hill and giving him some pro coaching to help him out? We have NOTHING on the line. NOTHING that fits the 3-4. They did a nice job of addressing the SOLB spot but nothing on the line. They're asking for suicide if they expect Thomas, Peterson and either Powell or Fields to keep people off LBs. They're going to get thrown in the LB's laps all game every game. You don't have one guy there that people are scared of. There isn't one guy there that commands a double team. They needed to address it, even with flawed prospects. If they didn't want to address it high, then they could have addressed it later, with little risk since it was Day Two.

The LBs are going to have a HELL of a time trying to play in front of this group. The coaches set them up to fail. They set them up to fail. They needed help. We needed help so bad in that area. And we could have had it...even if the help wasnt perfect. It's ok...BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS.

I think I can read in between lines here... SoCal is not impressed with the draft this year.

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 12:47 PM
It was an abomination and an embarassment of biblical proportions. This was the biggest problem. You can't p***Y out of it by saying "oh well, we didnt like who was there when we picked". That's bull****. Get over it. You work with the talent. You give up an extra third to get Raji, since you are willing to piss away everything else. Or you give up an extra third to get Brace. Or you just draft the 3-4 skill set players in the later rounds EVEN if you aren't totally in love with them. There's dozens and dozens of DL prospects. You HAVE to find someone you can at least work with. Don't tell me there's no one at all that they feel will fit their system. If that's the case, then change the ****ing system. They're NFL coaches for pete's sake. They're supposed to work with flawed talent and make them useful and help to cover up their flaws. Anyone can work with a perfect prototype prospect. They don't grow on trees. You work with what's available and make them better. That's what a good coach, does. You don't sit back and cry that no one really fits or is really that great. It's not like your spending a first on them. It's Day Two. It's not going to kill you if they dont pan out but you have to at least TRY to get some 3-4 DL prospects in here and work with them. They failed in that task. They utterly failed. They are a failure. What's wrong with bringing in Scott and working with him? What's wrong with bringing in Taylor and working through his flaws? How bout bringing in Hill and giving him some pro coaching to help him out? We have NOTHING on the line. NOTHING that fits the 3-4. They did a nice job of addressing the SOLB spot but nothing on the line. They're asking for suicide if they expect Thomas, Peterson and either Powell or Fields to keep people off LBs. They're going to get thrown in the LB's laps all game every game. You don't have one guy there that people are scared of. There isn't one guy there that commands a double team. They needed to address it, even with flawed prospects. If they didn't want to address it high, then they could have addressed it later, with little risk since it was Day Two.

The LBs are going to have a HELL of a time trying to play in front of this group. The coaches set them up to fail. They set them up to fail. They needed help. We needed help so bad in that area. And we could have had it...even if the help wasnt perfect. It's ok...BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS.

Jax did not want to trade the pick after Monroe fell in their lap. It would have certainly cost more than a 3rd to entice them. You can't just say, "well, we should have traded up" as if mere desire can make it happen. That's crap. You have to have a willing team who will do the deal at a reasonable price.

Second, this notion of yours that you draft out of need regardless of how you feel about the players is one of the worst, most ill-formed posts you've ever made. Picking based on need over BPA is ALWAYS a bad idea. We've seen it happen time and again. You draft where the value is. This draft is one of the WORST drafts for DTs in recent memory. You don't just take some chump because you have a need. That's a recipe for disaster. And it's not like the picks we've made have not been need areas. Safety was a bigger disaster last season than DL, IMHO. We clearly needed another corner, too (though I don't like moving the 1st to do it). Your opinion on this is just flat wrong. You NEVER draft purely out of need if there are players you feel a lot better about. To call it "an embarrassment of biblical proportions" is itself an embarassing pronouncement.

Dagmar
04-26-2009, 12:47 PM
It was an abomination and an embarassment of biblical proportions. This was the biggest problem. You can't p***Y out of it by saying "oh well, we didnt like who was there when we picked". That's bull****. Get over it. You work with the talent. You give up an extra third to get Raji, since you are willing to piss away everything else. Or you give up an extra third to get Brace. Or you just draft the 3-4 skill set players in the later rounds EVEN if you aren't totally in love with them. There's dozens and dozens of DL prospects. You HAVE to find someone you can at least work with. Don't tell me there's no one at all that they feel will fit their system. If that's the case, then change the ****ing system. They're NFL coaches for pete's sake. They're supposed to work with flawed talent and make them useful and help to cover up their flaws. Anyone can work with a perfect prototype prospect. They don't grow on trees. You work with what's available and make them better. That's what a good coach, does. You don't sit back and cry that no one really fits or is really that great. It's not like your spending a first on them. It's Day Two. It's not going to kill you if they dont pan out but you have to at least TRY to get some 3-4 DL prospects in here and work with them. They failed in that task. They utterly failed. They are a failure. What's wrong with bringing in Scott and working with him? What's wrong with bringing in Taylor and working through his flaws? How bout bringing in Hill and giving him some pro coaching to help him out? We have NOTHING on the line. NOTHING that fits the 3-4. They did a nice job of addressing the SOLB spot but nothing on the line. They're asking for suicide if they expect Thomas, Peterson and either Powell or Fields to keep people off LBs. They're going to get thrown in the LB's laps all game every game. You don't have one guy there that people are scared of. There isn't one guy there that commands a double team. They needed to address it, even with flawed prospects. If they didn't want to address it high, then they could have addressed it later, with little risk since it was Day Two.

The LBs are going to have a HELL of a time trying to play in front of this group. The coaches set them up to fail. They set them up to fail. They needed help. We needed help so bad in that area. And we could have had it...even if the help wasnt perfect. It's ok...BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS.

http://www.superpouvoir.com/Team/Fred/Red_Hulk_Chili_Peper.PNG

NFLBRONCO
04-26-2009, 12:47 PM
Any crap NT's still available in FA?

oubronco
04-26-2009, 01:00 PM
It was an abomination and an embarassment of biblical proportions. This was the biggest problem. You can't p***Y out of it by saying "oh well, we didnt like who was there when we picked". That's bull****. Get over it. You work with the talent. You give up an extra third to get Raji, since you are willing to piss away everything else. Or you give up an extra third to get Brace. Or you just draft the 3-4 skill set players in the later rounds EVEN if you aren't totally in love with them. There's dozens and dozens of DL prospects. You HAVE to find someone you can at least work with. Don't tell me there's no one at all that they feel will fit their system. If that's the case, then change the ****ing system. They're NFL coaches for pete's sake. They're supposed to work with flawed talent and make them useful and help to cover up their flaws. Anyone can work with a perfect prototype prospect. They don't grow on trees. You work with what's available and make them better. That's what a good coach, does. You don't sit back and cry that no one really fits or is really that great. It's not like your spending a first on them. It's Day Two. It's not going to kill you if they dont pan out but you have to at least TRY to get some 3-4 DL prospects in here and work with them. They failed in that task. They utterly failed. They are a failure. What's wrong with bringing in Scott and working with him? What's wrong with bringing in Taylor and working through his flaws? How bout bringing in Hill and giving him some pro coaching to help him out? We have NOTHING on the line. NOTHING that fits the 3-4. They did a nice job of addressing the SOLB spot but nothing on the line. They're asking for suicide if they expect Thomas, Peterson and either Powell or Fields to keep people off LBs. They're going to get thrown in the LB's laps all game every game. You don't have one guy there that people are scared of. There isn't one guy there that commands a double team. They needed to address it, even with flawed prospects. If they didn't want to address it high, then they could have addressed it later, with little risk since it was Day Two.

The LBs are going to have a HELL of a time trying to play in front of this group. The coaches set them up to fail. They set them up to fail. They needed help. We needed help so bad in that area. And we could have had it...even if the help wasnt perfect. It's ok...BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS.

I totally agree we did not need a small corner we have one in Jack Williams and we damn sure didn't need a TE that caught a wopping 12 passes that is a blocking TE what the hell does Graham do best

rmsanger
04-26-2009, 01:02 PM
No DL is a term used too loosely. We have a phobia of draft DTs or now specifically a NT. We've had a crap load of bust DEs.

barryr
04-26-2009, 01:02 PM
Fields and Powell were each 4th-5th round picks and at NT at the moment, yet we're to believe in a weak draft for DL there is just someone so much better(it's a guarantee you know) waiting there in those same rounds? Amazing the dumb crap that's believed by some.

Odysseus
04-26-2009, 01:05 PM
Which is worst? The fact the Broncos don't pick up DL players, pick defensive busts in every round, or let DL players who produce leave?

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 01:11 PM
We could have drafted JARRON GILBERT with that last-2nd round pick.

Instead we take a blocking TE. A blocking TE. :moody:


The only explanation is we're gonna play 4-3 the majority of the time.

TheDave
04-26-2009, 01:24 PM
I think people need to come to grips with the fact that our FO has a different opinion of the Dline than we do...

They did nothing in the draft and next to nothing in FA (minus Fields) to address it. We have to assume they like what they have a hell of a lot better than most of us.

Br0nc0Buster
04-26-2009, 01:26 PM
I was suprised we were not more aggressive going after linemen, however I remembered one of McDaniels' comments about how young our linemen were, and how they hadnt reached their potential yet.

Kinda makes me think unless there was someone they were in love with within reach, they would just see what they got this year.

I am quite nervous about the Dline, as most of the guys we got seem to be backups at best, but guys like Ayers, Powell, Thomas do in fact have potential.

We will just have to see.

Regardless I see our defense being better than last years

BroncoMan4ever
04-26-2009, 01:27 PM
i am a little upset that guys i thought would be good for us were bypassed in favor of others, however, i am just going under the assumption that, Nolan either didn't care for any of the DL talent in this draft, which is understandable because this draft is weak, or he thinks we already have a few decent guys on the roster. plus McDaniels has said we weren't done in FA so we very well may be bringing in more veteran DL help.

oubronco
04-26-2009, 01:49 PM
Fields and Powell were each 4th-5th round picks and at NT at the moment, yet we're to believe in a weak draft for DL there is just someone so much better(it's a guarantee you know) waiting there in those same rounds? Amazing the dumb crap that's believed by some.

Fields was a backup for the 49ers and Powell we have no idea about he was drafted as a DT for the 4-3 and how the hell are they supposed to develop any NT's for the 3-4 if they don't draft any that seems pretty dumb to me

Finger Roll
04-26-2009, 01:56 PM
if we stay mostly at 4-3 (which i think we will) won't Ayers be considered a DL? Plus the bust rate for a DT in the first 3 rounds is very high. I think more than any position except maybe QB and WR

Swedish Extrovert
04-26-2009, 01:57 PM
Jarvis Moss

Paul Toveissi

Man-Goblin
04-26-2009, 02:05 PM
I find it quite amusing that people steadfastly assume the Broncos can always trade up or trade down if they want to. It takes two teams to make a trade, and there may not have been any takers. So what do you do then? You take the best player on your board.

And as for drafting flawed players simply because they fit the scheme, isn't that what they already have? I'd say go with the flawed players you've got for a year if you have to, and address other areas with players you're more comfortable with.

But ya know, that's just me. I'm sure other people would be happy with the team drafting more ****ty players as long as they are projected to fit the scheme.

barryr
04-26-2009, 02:15 PM
Fields was a backup for the 49ers and Powell we have no idea about he was drafted as a DT for the 4-3 and how the hell are they supposed to develop any NT's for the 3-4 if they don't draft any that seems pretty dumb to me

Again, you assume the DT's available after Raji, that the Broncos liked any of them. It's quite possible they didn't like any of them and explains why they didn't draft them.

Rohirrim
04-26-2009, 02:18 PM
The strength of this draft was LBs. The Broncos didn't take a single one.

NFLBRONCO
04-26-2009, 02:19 PM
What's Ayers OLB

oubronco
04-26-2009, 02:20 PM
Again, you assume the DT's available after Raji, that the Broncos liked any of them. It's quite possible they didn't like any of them and explains why they didn't draft them.

then I suppose that they think as well as you that what D-line was on the field last year other than swapping Ekuban for Fields is going to be good enough?

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 02:22 PM
The strength of this draft was LBs. The Broncos didn't take a single one.

Ayers projects to OLB.

Bob
04-26-2009, 02:53 PM
I think people need to come to grips with the fact that our FO has a different opinion of the Dline than we do...

They did nothing in the draft and next to nothing in FA (minus Fields) to address it. We have to assume they like what they have a hell of a lot better than most of us.

Our FO must have not watched any games from last year. I hate McDanels, and have ben unimpressed with this draft and off seasaon. I hear Shanny will be available in 2010.

I dont mind Moreno in the first, but to not address our run defence in any real way shows me, we are going to have more of the same. All I want (every year) is one 330 DT, that can stop the run, is that too much to ask?)

barryr
04-26-2009, 03:03 PM
then I suppose that they think as well as you that what D-line was on the field last year other than swapping Ekuban for Fields is going to be good enough?

Or maybe not done in free agency. Oh that's right, that is something McDaniels has stated. But hey, let's continue to get stupid and bitch because the Broncos didn't take someone Kiper said.

Killericon
04-26-2009, 04:11 PM
I hope that McDaniels wasn't drafting with this year in mind. That would make me feel much better.

oubronco
04-26-2009, 04:16 PM
Or maybe not done in free agency. Oh that's right, that is something McDaniels has stated. But hey, let's continue to get stupid and b**** because the Broncos didn't take someone Kiper said.

**** Kiper!!! I'm just pissed we traded up so many times and used next years #1 to boot to strengthen up the secondary cause lord knows they needed another short CB and S project along with another blocking TE

Popps
04-26-2009, 04:32 PM
The strength of this draft was LBs. The Broncos didn't take a single one.

There were only three LBs taken in the first round, unless you include Ayers, who they have listed as a LB... in which case, we took one.

Conversely, there were 6 OL and 6 WR.

More likely, Ayers will be a multi-positional player.

So, judging by how the draft played out, the league apparently didn't think LB was the deepest position in the draft, and really.. only one LB went in the top 10.

I'm with you, I would have liked to see us get a true hammer for the ILB spot, but unless you think Maulaluga was that guy (and most apparently don't) .... it's not as if we whiffed on any sure things.

My big question is with regards to the SSOLB spot, really. I think we have players for the middle and WOLB, but I sincerely hope we're not counting on Boss Bailey for anything.

Plus, the off-season isn't over and beyond that, I think the staff is going to have to get a look at these guys in practice before they really know what they have.

barryr
04-26-2009, 04:39 PM
**** Kiper!!! I'm just pissed we traded up so many times and used next years #1 to boot to strengthen up the secondary cause lord knows they needed another short CB and S project along with another blocking TE

You know, people are really showing ignorance with their "short" garbage to describe Smith. There are plenty of 5'9 CB's in the NFL, and starting by the way, and none had the 20+ interceptions in college like Smith did. Darrent Williams was in the 5'8-5'9 range, so did you also refer to him as "short?" I bet not. If a guy can play, he can play and obviously the Broncos think he can and at a high level.

Rohirrim
04-26-2009, 06:32 PM
There were only three LBs taken in the first round, unless you include Ayers, who they have listed as a LB... in which case, we took one.

Conversely, there were 6 OL and 6 WR.

More likely, Ayers will be a multi-positional player.

So, judging by how the draft played out, the league apparently didn't think LB was the deepest position in the draft, and really.. only one LB went in the top 10.

I'm with you, I would have liked to see us get a true hammer for the ILB spot, but unless you think Maulaluga was that guy (and most apparently don't) .... it's not as if we whiffed on any sure things.

As far as Ayers goes, I'm really wondering if he will be OLB.

My big question is with regards to the SSOLB spot, really. I think we have players for the middle and WOLB, but I sincerely hope we're not counting on Boss Bailey for anything.

Plus, the off-season isn't over and beyond that, I think the staff is going to have to get a look at these guys in practice before they really know what they have.

I think Rey dropped because he's not a great pass coverage guy (just adequate) and because he has some issues with anger management. They don't realize he's Samoan. All Samoans have anger management issues. ;D

j/k all you pc pollyannas out there.

I think Rey will go to many pro bowls once the Bengals crap out, screw it up and trade him to someone like the Pats.

I also wonder if Ayers will go to OLB. This hybrid might be more 4-3 than 3-4.

Malcontent
04-26-2009, 06:46 PM
Remember the year we took DT-Nick Eason and his Clemson teammate
DT-Bryant Mcneal in the 4th rd(I think)..Uuugh...

And did anyone notice Raji looks soft and pudgy?