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mikeauran
04-26-2009, 11:48 AM
http://walterfootball.com/offseason2009den.php

2009 NFL Draft Picks:

12. Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
With Tyson Jackson and B.J. Raji off the board, the Broncos didn't have many options here. They took the best player available in Knowshon Moreno. Denver's defense will continue to be epically horrific, but once again, Denver didn't have much of a choice. (Pick Grade: A)

18. Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee
I don't like this at all. Robert Ayers is a 1-year starter who wasn't nearly as productive as some of the other first-round prospects in this class. Ayers isn't a natural fit for the 3-4. Does he balloon up and play on the line? Do you play him at rush linebacker and get debacled in coverage? Then again, this pick was made by the same man who wanted a system quarterback over Jay Cutler. (Pick Grade: C)

37. Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest
Alphonso Smith is an OK pick. I don't know what the Browns plan on doing with their defensive line. The reason for the F? Denver gave up a 2010 first-round pick! If it was Denver's choice and not Chicago's, the Seahawks could be picking in the top five next April. (Pick Grade: F)

48. Darcel McBath, FS, Texas Tech
I guess you can never have too many defensive backs, eh? The Broncos needed a free safety to take over for Brian Dawkins in a year or two, but I really have to wonder what they're going to do with their defensive line. (Pick Grade: B)

64. Richard Quinn, TE, North Carolina
Yet another confusing move by Josh McDaniels, who moved up into this selection. You don't take a blocking tight end in the second round, especially when you have huge holes on your defensive line. It's amazing to me that some teams just don't understand the concept of positional value. I don't care if Quinn becomes a very good player; this selection deserves a Z- because blocking tight ends should never go over defensive linemen in Round 2. (Pick Grade: Z-)

114. David Bruton, FS, Notre Dame
Another defensive back, Josh? I like David Bruton, but it's very apparent that Josh McDaniels has absolutely no idea how to put an NFL team together. What are the Broncos going to do with their defensive line? (Pick Grade: C)

132. Seth Olsen, G, Iowa
Adding offensive line depth is never a bad idea. Reaching for prospects and ignoring the defensive line? That's another story. (Pick Grade: D)

141. Kenny McKinley, WR, South Carolina
Josh McDaniels is either really smart by finding these unknown players who are being considered reaches right now... or he'll be fired by Jan. 1, 2011. I'll lay -200 on the latter. (Pick Grade: D)

NASurfer
04-26-2009, 11:55 AM
this selection deserves a Z- because blocking tight ends should never go over defensive linemen in Round 2. (Pick Grade: Z-)
That's freaking hilarious. There are probably DL question marks aplenty for 3-4 teams in this year's draft but it's hilarious anyway. :D

WABronco
04-26-2009, 11:56 AM
Clearly Josh McDaniels just doesn't know what the NFL draft is all about!

Denver724
04-26-2009, 12:02 PM
Clearly Josh McDaniels just doesn't know what the NFL draft is all about!

Feel free to turn in your resume and see if you can do any better. The haters on this board amaze me.

BroncoBuff
04-26-2009, 12:07 PM
Agree with every word.

I like Alphonso Smith, but we gave up what might be a Top 5 pick ....!!!!!!

McD is acting the child he is ... "I want it NOW!" ... no planning for the future, no delaying gratification ... just trade up, trade up, trade up, trade up.

oubronco
04-26-2009, 12:09 PM
McD is totally clueless

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:12 PM
Sounds like one of the pussies on this board wrote it.

Is this some 8th grader with a blog or something?

DBroncos4life
04-26-2009, 12:12 PM
we don't have any room to trade up next year and draft a QB, looks like McD is willing to get fired with Orton.

WABronco
04-26-2009, 12:13 PM
Feel free to turn in your resume and see if you can do any better. The haters on this board amaze me.

WOOOSH over your head.

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:13 PM
Fired?

LOL

You guys are really a sad bunch.

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:15 PM
Agree with every word.

I like Alphonso Smith, but we gave up what might be a Top 5 pick ....!!!!!!

McD is acting the child he is ... "I want it NOW!" ... no planning for the future, no delaying gratification ... just trade up, trade up, trade up, trade up.

Planning for the future is exactly what he's doing. He made 5 day one picks, and specifically targeted the guys he wanted. It's clear that McDaniels felt it was best to get the players the staff wanted into the fold now, to begin developing them immediately.

That's how you start "planning for the future," not playing Madden Playstation football and stocking 400 draft picks for next year.

This team had gaping holes everywhere and we're installing a new system. Our staff has been extremely active to fill them.

But, you're afraid of your own ****ing shadow. I don't expect you to step back and take any sort of rational look at all of this.

WABronco
04-26-2009, 12:16 PM
Sounds like one of the pussies on this board wrote it.

Is this some 8th grader with a blog or something?

Lol sounds like it.

We're going to be "epically" horrific. He dropped "debacled"...maybe it's Emmit Smith.

And, not like it matters in the 5th round, but how the hell is Kenny McKinley an "unkown" player? How could any self proclaimed guru let that slip?

SoCalBronco
04-26-2009, 12:16 PM
McD is acting the child he is ... "I want it NOW!" .

http://www.imamuseum.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/veruca_salt.jpg

He'll probably end up like Varuca Salt, too.

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 12:17 PM
I don't think anyone can say this was a good review. A lot of our picks were pretty good players. Dogging on the guard because "we haven't taken a defensive lineman" yet and so the pick gets a D? That's incredibly dumb. He didn't even evaluate the player. He just said D becuase it wasn't a defensive lineman. The worst drafts in history are the ones where you put need ahead of talent.

WABronco
04-26-2009, 12:17 PM
Fired?

LOL

You guys are really a sad bunch.

http://images.southparkstudios.com/crap/downloads/preview_image_thumbnail.php?id=1847

Rabble rabble rabble!

TonyR
04-26-2009, 12:19 PM
...no planning for the future, no delaying gratification...

I don't totally disagree with your post, but how is drafting young DB's to eventually replace your old ones (and all of our starters are on the wrong side of 30) not planning for the future?

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 12:19 PM
I can't believe we traded our pick next year knowing that we are in a complete build mode. To boot, we have probably the toughest schedule in the NFL. We'll be lucky to go 5-11 or 6-10. A top 10 pick was just traded away for Alphonso Smith. Lots of fail. I love the Broncos but these are sad times for the Orange n Blue diehards.

And we have idiots around here claiming that we're doing good things by trading around... it shows that McD is in command and can work his way around the board. BS. We screwed the pooch. DL and LB were the biggest issues going into the draft. What did we do to secure those positions... POPPS?

WABronco
04-26-2009, 12:19 PM
http://www.imamuseum.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/veruca_salt.jpg

He'll probably end up like Varuca Salt, too.

He's going to jack secret candy from Willy Wonka and blow up into a blueberry?

Lol wait no that wasn't her. Uhhhh he's going to fall down a rotten egg chute? Ah now I get it...very good very good.

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 12:23 PM
Planning for the future is exactly what he's doing. He made 5 day one picks, and specifically targeted the guys he wanted. It's clear that McDaniels felt it was best to get the players the staff wanted into the fold now, to begin developing them immediately.

That's how you start "planning for the future," not playing Madden Playstation football and stocking 400 draft picks for next year.

This team had gaping holes everywhere and we're installing a new system. Our staff has been extremely active to fill them.

But, you're afraid of your own ****ing shadow. I don't expect you to step back and take any sort of rational look at all of this.

Bull**** he's planning for the future. He's running around like a scared little biatch. I really don't get you. Sometimes you seem like a smart guy that can post and follow in an intelligent manner. You support giving up quite possibly a top 10 pick in next year's draft... You want to talk about sad Popps, take a look in the mirror. You've become a blind follower yourself with no grasp on reality. Tell me genius, what are we going to do at DT? Hope like hell somebody gets cut in August so we can plum him in for September. Jeezus Popps, I really thought you were smarter than this. I'm as disappointed in you as I am in the fact that we haven't addressed our biggest needs along the DLine!

Denver724
04-26-2009, 12:24 PM
WOOOSH over your head.

Not really. I just don't think you know what the **** your talking about.

SoCalBronco
04-26-2009, 12:25 PM
Fair analysis. Only thing I would change on the grades is Moreno to B+ because of the needs ignored. I would also increase Ayers from C to B/B+ because of how highly Mayock regards him. The other grades are very fair.

WABronco
04-26-2009, 12:28 PM
Not really. I just don't think you know what the **** your talking about.

Have you not been watching ESPN, at all?

oubronco
04-26-2009, 12:33 PM
Planning for the future is exactly what he's doing. He made 5 day one picks, and specifically targeted the guys he wanted. It's clear that McDaniels felt it was best to get the players the staff wanted into the fold now, to begin developing them immediately.

That's how you start "planning for the future," not playing Madden Playstation football and stocking 400 draft picks for next year.

This team had gaping holes everywhere and we're installing a new system. Our staff has been extremely active to fill them.

But, you're afraid of your own ****ing shadow. I don't expect you to step back and take any sort of rational look at all of this.

and the BIGGEST one of those gaping holes is D-LINE and they totally ignored it!!! just amazing

Denver724
04-26-2009, 12:33 PM
Have you not been watching ESPN, at all?

??????? I think I am going to wait AT LEAST until the end of August before I reflect on this draft. The players need to show what they can do on the field. It is hard to believe all the negative comments on this board concerning our draft.

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 12:34 PM
DL and LB were the biggest issues going into the draft. What did we do to secure those positions... POPPS?

First of all, LB is not the biggest need. We actually have quite a few good ones.

Secondly, you don't reach for need. The DT's in this class sucked. If you don't think they'll pan out, you don't take one "just because". Now I would have taken Ron Brace with the Alphonso pick, but we'll just have to wait and see here. You draft BPA, not for need. If all these picks blossom into good players then we did the right thing. If not and the team still sucks then we didn't.

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 12:36 PM
Planning for the future is exactly what he's doing. He made 5 day one picks, and specifically targeted the guys he wanted. It's clear that McDaniels felt it was best to get the players the staff wanted into the fold now, to begin developing them immediately.

That's how you start "planning for the future," not playing Madden Playstation football and stocking 400 draft picks for next year.

This team had gaping holes everywhere and we're installing a new system. Our staff has been extremely active to fill them.

But, you're afraid of your own ****ing shadow. I don't expect you to step back and take any sort of rational look at all of this.

I am so disappointed in you. After all of your bashing of people for being blind homers that follow like sheep to one side or the other... only to find out you're just a hypocrite. I'm disappointed b/c I thought you were solid. :(

Denver724
04-26-2009, 12:37 PM
First of all, LB is not the biggest need. We actually have quite a few good ones.

Secondly, you don't reach for need. The DT's in this class sucked. If you don't think they'll pan out, you don't take one "just because". Now I would have taken Ron Brace with the Alphonso pick, but we'll just have to wait and see here. You draft BPA, not for need. If all these picks blossom into good players then we did the right thing. If not and the team still sucks then we didn't.

Great post. Spot on!!!

ZONA
04-26-2009, 12:39 PM
All I know is that Mayock said he loves the players we got and is very very satisfied with our first 5 picks. Maybe he didn't like how we went about to get them but said at the end of the day, it's about what players did you add to your team and he loves the players we got. I'll take that any day over what some retard grades us at.

snowspot66
04-26-2009, 12:40 PM
We NEEDED defensive linemen in 05, 06, 07, and 08. What did we get? Not a ****ing thing in 07 for all the wasted picks and the other two years netted us some major offensive talent. 05 was a total disaster with Shanahan's CB grab bag (THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DRAFT ON NEED AND NOT ON TALENT!).

We could have drafted solely for need and ran around picking up defensive linemen left and right and the end result would have been Shanahan getting fired earlier for passing up guys like Cutler, Clady, and Royal and not even having a halfway functional offense.

THIS. WILL. TAKE. TIME. For ****s sakes there's no way we can rebuild the abortion we call a defensive line in one draft ESPECIALLY when it's the weakest defensive linemen draft in some time. We got one guy with a lot of upside and a lot of other talented hard working players who produced in college. But everybody is pissed because had a NEED that apparently outweighs all considerations of talent.

Our team got better this weekend but because it's not on the defensive line everybody is throwing a hissy fit. At the end of next season I hope people start bumping all of these threads with the amazing statistics all of these can't miss rookie 3-4 linemen are going to be posting. And I hope they keep it bookmarked to bump it after two and three years.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-26-2009, 12:43 PM
Ehhhh, no one really liked the '06 and '08 drafts right off the bat and those drafts are the gold standard for the people on this site who are using this review to attack McDaniels.

snowspot66
04-26-2009, 12:45 PM
I am so disappointed in you. After all of your bashing of people for being blind homers that follow like sheep to one side or the other... only to find out you're just a hypocrite. I'm disappointed b/c I thought you were solid. :(

Popps is a sheep now huh? The guy who is going back to analyze how the Patriots ran their offense in order to get context for current events is a sheep but all the people demanding we draft a ton of linemen in a weak DL class just because we need some fat bodies to put up front aren't sheep. Yeah, that makes sense.

nickademus
04-26-2009, 12:46 PM
I don't think anyone can say this was a good review. A lot of our picks were pretty good players. Dogging on the guard because "we haven't taken a defensive lineman" yet and so the pick gets a D? That's incredibly dumb. He didn't even evaluate the player. He just said D becuase it wasn't a defensive lineman. The worst drafts in history are the ones where you put need ahead of talent.

I agree with this 100% the only thing about this draft that has pissed me off has been our trades the players selected have not been bad its just that with what we have given up to get them they have to be great.

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Bull**** he's planning for the future.

When you draft blocking tight ends and lots of secondary/ST help, that's planning for the future, Oskie. The Playstation Madden mindset around here may not be able to wrap around it, but that's exactly what's happening.

I really don't get you. Sometimes you seem like a smart guy that can post and follow in an intelligent manner.

Perhaps if you're not "getting me," you should be questioning your own intelligence, not mine. The logic I've laid out here is pretty simple to follow. You don't have to agree with it, but the staff is building a proper structure, here... and taking the best players they see available.

You want to talk about sad Popps, take a look in the mirror. You've become a blind follower yourself with no grasp on reality.

"Blind follower?"

So, giving our draft grade a B- (that's just above a C+) makes me a "blind follower?"

I think we did a lot of things right, and I'm also giving Nolan and Co. the benefit of the doubt that perhaps there simply wasn't a great deal of DL talent in this draft. (As was suspected going into the draft)

We also landed one of the top DL candidates, and the guy Mayock says will be the best DEFENDER taken in this draft.

Jeezus Popps, I really thought you were smarter than this. I'm as disappointed in you as I am in the fact that we haven't addressed our biggest needs along the DLine!

Look, f#cko, I don't give a flying **** if you're disappointed in me. What are you, my mother?

If you want to play friendly one day, and then ambush me like a 3rd grader the next... have at it. You've been a civil guy in the past, but if you want to be a douche-bag, we can play it that way, too.

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 01:01 PM
First of all, LB is not the biggest need. We actually have quite a few good ones.

Secondly, you don't reach for need. The DT's in this class sucked. If you don't think they'll pan out, you don't take one "just because". Now I would have taken Ron Brace with the Alphonso pick, but we'll just have to wait and see here. You draft BPA, not for need. If all these picks blossom into good players then we did the right thing. If not and the team still sucks then we didn't.

Sometimes when you FAIL or FU@KUP during free agency you HAVE TO REACH IN THE DRAFT! As for having plenty of good LBs on the roster... WHO? Please throw out the names of Crowder and Moss so I can make you sound stupid!

Honestly, I don't mind many of the picks. Hate the idea of giving up so much to get them though. Let me give you a little insight into positional value. You don't draft Kickers or Punters in the first round for the same reason you don't draft 2nd or 3rd TEs in the second round! Positional value. A nickel CB in the 2nd, okay... he'll play a ton of snaps. We gave up two 3rd round picks, a value of around 365 points for the final 2nd rounder, a value of 260 points... and then we draft a 2nd or quite possibly a 3rd TE. A little more perspective, the Cowboys gave up #51 (14 picks ahead of our Rich Quinn pick) for #74 and #110. 51 was worth 390 points. 75 and 110 were worth 290 points. You can paint sh!t gold and call it fine jewels, but it's still sh!t at the end of the day.

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 01:04 PM
When you draft blocking tight ends and lots of secondary/ST help, that's planning for the future, Oskie. The Playstation Madden mindset around here may not be able to wrap around it, but that's exactly what's happening.



Perhaps if you're not "getting me," you should be questioning your own intelligence, not mine. The logic I've laid out here is pretty simple to follow. You don't have to agree with it, but the staff is building a proper structure, here... and taking the best players they see available.



"Blind follower?"

So, giving our draft grade a B- (that's just above a C+) makes me a "blind follower?"

I think we did a lot of things right, and I'm also giving Nolan and Co. the benefit of the doubt that perhaps there simply wasn't a great deal of DL talent in this draft. (As was suspected going into the draft)

We also landed one of the top DL candidates, and the guy Mayock says will be the best DEFENDER taken in this draft.



Look, f#cko, I don't give a flying **** if you're disappointed in me. What are you, my mother?

If you want to play friendly one day, and then ambush me like a 3rd grader the next... have at it. You've been a civil guy in the past, but if you want to be a douche-bag, we can play it that way, too.


Have a nut... you're nothing more than Lex but to the opposite extreme. Sorry if saying I'm disappointed in you hurts your feelings so bad. I had a lot of respect for you as a poster... my bad.

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 01:16 PM
Anybody listen to our 2nd rounder's post draft conference? "I didn't even think I'd be drafted, I figured I'd be an undrafted Free Agent."

You all should listen to Quinn's comments. It says a lot about just how bad McD reached. Never mind the fact that he gave up some serious value to get to 64 when he could have given up less to get to 51 (like the Bills did). Man, so sad!

Popps
04-26-2009, 01:17 PM
Have a nut... you're nothing more than Lex but to the opposite extreme. .

Again, a B- grade is a bit above average. Not sure why your panties are bunched up, but it's not as if I'm saying we had a stellar draft.

Sorry if saying I'm disappointed in you hurts your feelings so bad. .

No, it doesn't. Maybe you didn't read my post correctly.

See, anyone who only respects you when they agree with you is very immature. So, why would I be upset about an immature little bitch with twisted panties throwing a temper tantrum because someone dared to disagree with her?

Why would your "respect" concern me, when it really means... only when you agree with my opinion? You need to learn the meaning of the word, sport.

Pull yourself together and we'll talk later.

WABronco
04-26-2009, 01:21 PM
Anybody listen to our 2nd rounder's post draft conference? "I didn't even think I'd be drafted, I figured I'd be an undrafted Free Agent."

You all should listen to Quinn's comments. It says a lot about just how bad McD reached. Never mind the fact that he gave up some serious value to get to 64 when he could have given up less to get to 51 (like the Bills did). Man, so sad!

He was rated exactly where we drafted him by at least one major, credible publication (PFW).

I bet Michael Mitchell didn't think he was going to be drafted in the 2nd round either. Turns out there were at least two teams gunning for him in the round, another unknown player.

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 01:26 PM
Again, a B- grade is a bit above average. Not sure why your panties are bunched up, but it's not as if I'm saying we had a stellar draft.



No, it doesn't. Maybe you didn't read my post correctly.

See, anyone who only respects you when they agree with you is very immature. So, why would I be upset about an immature little b**** with twisted panties throwing a temper tantrum because someone dared to disagree with her?

Why would your "respect" concern me, when it really means... only when you agree with my opinion? You need to learn the meaning of the word, sport.

Pull yourself together and we'll talk later.

Uhh, if you recall I haven't agreed with you for the past several weeks. I can follow an intelligent conversation... as I'm sure you can too. You're saying I need to pull myself together. We've been the worst run stopping Denver Broncos team in franchise history over the past two seasons and we drafted Robert Ayers to improve that. Smith, McBath, and Burton all have one thing in common. They don't support the run real well.

Popps
04-26-2009, 01:33 PM
Uhh, if you recall I haven't agreed with you for the past several weeks. I can follow an intelligent conversation... as I'm sure you can too. You're saying I need to pull myself together. We've been the worst run stopping Denver Broncos team in franchise history over the past two seasons and we drafted Robert Ayers to improve that. Smith, McBath, and Burton all have one thing in common. They don't support the run real well.

You may have missed that our pass defense sucked, too... and it wasn't just a lack of a pass rush. We had garbage at S, and no depth behind Bailey and Bly.

Ayers was brought in to be a top DL prospect for us. He's excellent against the run. Fields is known as a run-clogger, and Andra Davis comes with a rep of being strong against the run.

That's potentially three new starters of the front seven, with several other players moving to positions that might suit them better.... and Powell joining the team as basically a draft pick WELL KNOWN as one of the BEST RUN DEFENDERS in college football last season.

Let's also consider that Slowick was our coordinator last season, and now we have a guy with a history of some success.

It is all roses? Probably not. Were we going to fix EVERYTHING this off-season? Unlikely. But, you need to quit panicking, dude. We landed the top DE prospect in this draft... and laid off of a sub-par DL group, according to most experts.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 01:44 PM
Sounds like one of the pussies on this board wrote it.

Is this some 8th grader with a blog or something?

Really this guy is a joke doesn't have the first clue what McD is trying to do here, obviously...Like most of the whiner Pussie Patrol here on the Mane :peace:

Atwater His Ass
04-26-2009, 02:31 PM
we don't have any room to trade up next year and draft a QB, looks like McD is willing to get fired with Orton.

For the long term health of this organization, we can only hope so.

Atwater His Ass
04-26-2009, 02:34 PM
I am so disappointed in you. After all of your bashing of people for being blind homers that follow like sheep to one side or the other... only to find out you're just a hypocrite. I'm disappointed b/c I thought you were solid. :(

Don't know why you ever thought that about ole'poppy. He's as two-faced as they come. This is the same guy that has been bitching (rightfully so) about how this team needs to be building from the DL on out. But he's happy with this draft in which we didn't draft one bonefide 3-4 lineman.

Popps is nothing more than the typical internet kool-aid fan that has no real knowledge and only looks to defend everything the organization does at this point. He just acts all tough about it when people call him out on it, and when people get sick of his act and start to ignore him, he think he's "won".

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 02:35 PM
I am so disappointed in you. After all of your bashing of people for being blind homers that follow like sheep to one side or the other... only to find out you're just a hypocrite. I'm disappointed b/c I thought you were solid. :(

TJesus H what are you smoking tonight Oskie?!

Must be from the emotional overload of seeing all those fat wide bodies masquerading as D-linemen float on by, most of whom are destined to be worthless bench warmers or situational backups at best!

There were no compelling D linemen today worth reaching for when instead we could and DID get some real players to build for the future. And that is PRECISELY what McD did. If you can't see that I'm sorry pal but your the one whose being blind here. Maybe you just need a good night sleep?

There is NO way we are going to fix the whole show in one draft. And there weren' t more than 8 or 9 dlinemen/OLB's in the whole draft worth really looking at and all 32 teams wanted them .... and yet we still got one of the best of them!

Focusing SOLELY on why we didnt draft mostly DLINE as if it was some magical mantra without regard to who was realistically possible for us to get, is being extremely myopic!

EVERY player selected was done deliberately and was a guy we have thoroughly vetted and not some knee jerk spur of the moment reach like Shanny was all to prone to doing when drafting defensive players.

This is a process, and we've definitely enhanced our total team the past two days and built some core resilience and redundancy into this team at key positions. Many, if not most, of whom will contribute some immediately (with the exception of the QB).

It was McD and Xanders very first draft and they got a hell of lot more right than they got wrong. They aren't perfect, infallable Beings descended from a race of Demigods as some of the diehard charter members of 'The OM Pussie Brigade" (OPB) 8') here seem to expect them to be!

And you're usually not with that crowd, right?

Whatever, all this crying about no new Dlineman overlooks Carlton Powell entirely!

He is much better than any of the guys left after round 3 today and probably higher, and all you guys act as if he's some guaranteed bust when he hasn't even had a chance to win .. or lose ..a job yet!

And you know one thing that sealed our fate last year and doomed us to lose those last few games? It was STUPID coaching that made them yank a couple of stud rookie LB's in Woodyard and Larsen playing exllent ball, and instead go with the vets in favor of Webster and DJ returning from injuries when they obviously not ready yet to put 100% on the field. Our tackling and play-making at those positions, which had helped us beat Cleveland and Atlanta with the rookies in went all to sh**ts the last few games!

It wasn't just a lousy scheme and not having any players, it was becuase the coaches went automatically with the vets instead of using the best guys on the field at the time.

We are not going to get Star big name players at every frigging position! Our Dline WILL play better with good coaching in a new disciplined system than in that emotional fiasco last year, no matter what.

And our LB core and Secondary are significantly improved just from the fact of second year guys like Spencer and Woodyard knowing what they are doing now, not to mention Doom and Ayers!

So why not put a cork in trail of tears and gnashing of teeth before the whiners make themselves look any more foolish! That's not like you Oskie! A good sleep might help clarify that the sky really isn't falling. Not just yet anyway.

When we go 0-16 you can start b****in' :-)

bpc
04-26-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm finding this thread highly entertaining.

I tend to agree with Socal on some of the guys we drafted. We got a few good football players in the group.

Do I agree with selling out a high 1st round player for Smith? Time will tell. Smith will have to become a damn good CB in this league to justify his limited ceiling vs. possibly a great player that we could have drafted.

Besides that I feel like we got reached on way too many picks and avoided a few positions that we should have paid more attention to. While I think Moreno is a great person/good player/limited future, we could have found numerous guys in the 3rd, 4th, or 5th round who could have matched what he does on field for a fraction of the cost. I mean, how many top notch resources have we used on HB's this offseason? Hell, we could have saved the pick and spent a little more money on Derrick Ward which would have allowed us to pick up a top notch LB at 12 like Cushing.

McDaniels is acting like he's running this franchise on Madden 2009. Ultimately Pat Bowlen is to blame. He has done nothing move this team closer to the super bowl. In fact he's blown the whole deal up, opting for affordability above competitiveness and super bowl championships.

lex
04-26-2009, 02:55 PM
I said this in another thread but last season we had a healthy discussion on Slowiks infamous 10 yard cushion. It was pointed out by myself and others that its hard to generate a pass rush when youre playing with such cushions that yield easy reads for the QB and WRs. But basically, it was theorized that Slowik was doing this to compensate for poor safeties. And actually, the drafting this year kind of points to this. It says that much of the lack of production from our defensive line is a result of compensating for poor safety play that resulted in 10 yard cushions. Where you can see this is in the Smith pick. If Il Duce/Nolan really felt it was because of our front 7, then Brace made a lot of sense. But they passed on a player who Belichick thought was good enough to draft. Again, it doesnt seem like Il Duce/Nolan thinks our DLine was as bad as many of us do.

When you think about it, our biggest issue was not being able to come up with stops on 3rd downs (again often due to the 10 yard cushion). Those failures allowed the opposing offenses to run and pass for more yards after failing to come up with stops. It could also be that they arent sure about the Dline yet because of the cushion, in which case they dont feel comfortable making personnel moves to replace guys.

Of course, it could also be true that Josh refuses to take positions that take a while to develop due to him wanting to solidify his job. If this is the case, its yet another failure of Bowlen and a huge reason for why its a good idea to have a legitimate GM that can block a coach's short term thinking.

Rohirrim
04-26-2009, 03:00 PM
Walter Cherepinsky is some cast off from an Iggles board who never has anything but nasty, unknowledgable comments to make about the Broncos, like most East Coast hacks. I would take anything he says with a major grain of salt.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 03:02 PM
I said this in another thread but last season we had a healthy discussion on Slowiks infamous 10 yard cushion. It was pointed out by myself and others that its hard to generate a pass rush when youre playing with such cushions that yield easy reads for the QB and WRs. But basically, it was theorized that Slowik was doing this to compensate for poor safeties. And actually, the drafting this year kind of points to this. It says that much of the lack of production from our defensive line is a result of compensating for poor safety play that resulted in 10 yard cushions. Where you can see this is in the Smith pick. If Il Duce/Nolan really felt it was because of our front 7, then Brace made a lot of sense. But they passed on a player who Belichick thought was good enough to draft. Again, it doesnt seem like Il Duce/Nolan thinks our DLine was as bad as many of us do.

When you think about it, our biggest issue was not being able to come up with stops on 3rd downs (again often due to the 10 yard cushion). Those failures allowed the opposing offenses to run and pass for more yards after failing to come up with stops. It could also be that they arent sure about the Dline yet because of the cushion, in which case they dont feel comfortable making personnel moves to replace guys.

Of course, it could also be true that Josh refuses to take positions that take a while to develop due to him wanting to solidify his job. If this is the case, its yet another failure of Bowlen and a huge reason for why its a good idea to have a legitimate GM that can block a coach's short term thinking.

Agree pretty much with your first two point Lex. McD has made a point several times not to put all the blame on the players we have .. and the ones that were mostly doggin' it are gone. but on how they were used as well.

At least give him and Nolan the benefit that they might know what they've got and how it fits in with what they want to do a wee bit better that any of us judging it all through the myopic lens of what happened last year. Give them some time to turn the thing around and if by the end of the season the D still sucks and hasn't shown any improvement then start throwing eggs.

Rohirrim
04-26-2009, 03:07 PM
Agree pretty much with your first two point Lex. McD has made a point several times not to put all the blame on the players we have .. and the ones that were mostly doggin' it are gone. but on how they were used as well.

At least give him and Nolan the benefit that they might know what they've got and how it fits in with what they want to do a wee bit better that any of us judging it all through the myopic lens of what happened last year. Give them some time to turn the thing around and if by the end of the season the D still sucks and hasn't shown any improvement then start throwing eggs.

I can see your point, but then again, we Broncos fans have already spent quite a few years waiting for a defense to develop. Now, basically, we are starting the same wait all over again. The frustration level is kicked up a little higher, naturally. I think there were some better LBs available in this draft than what the Broncos have now, or could at least complement much better what we have. I also think there were some good D linemen in this draft, better than what the Broncos have, although I'm a big fan of Powell and expect great things out of him. Also Thomas, who I haven't given up on. We're holding onto the idea that the players we have are better and what they needed was Slowik out and Nolan in. I can buy that. What choice do we have now?

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 07:03 PM
You may have missed that our pass defense sucked, too... and it wasn't just a lack of a pass rush. We had garbage at S, and no depth behind Bailey and Bly.

Ayers was brought in to be a top DL prospect for us. He's excellent against the run. Fields is known as a run-clogger, and Andra Davis comes with a rep of being strong against the run.

That's potentially three new starters of the front seven, with several other players moving to positions that might suit them better.... and Powell joining the team as basically a draft pick WELL KNOWN as one of the BEST RUN DEFENDERS in college football last season.

Let's also consider that Slowick was our coordinator last season, and now we have a guy with a history of some success.
It is all roses? Probably not. Were we going to fix EVERYTHING this off-season? Unlikely. But, you need to quit panicking, dude. We landed the top DE prospect in this draft... and laid off of a sub-par DL group, according to most experts.


This is the only thing that gives me any hope in this defense. I think we're going to be a decent offense with a both 10 defense again. Fortunately I think McD by himself can help us score more points. Add Moreno to that and I have a lot of confidence in our offense right now. Orton can throw the ball 5 yards which is where he will hit McMarshal and McRoyal and let them gain some yards after the catch. I think it's funny that people think that Quinn was added to protect Orton. He was added b/c as a TE he can line up a little wider and block (very effectively!) on the quick screens that McD loves to run. This offense will be fun and potent even if it is lacking in the intermediate areas.

As for the defense. Come on bro. I agree that we were extremely soft vs the pass and a lot of that had to do with the secondary as well as the pass rush. But rather than spending (collectively) $20-30m on Hill, Goodman, Buckhalter, Arrington, Jordan, Reid, and a few other FAs, wouldn't it have made sense to sign either Bart Scott or Chris Canty? I suppose we just put together the draft plan in recent weeks will be your response which leads me to my next point of having very little direction this offseason.

Gcver2ver3
04-26-2009, 07:09 PM
18. Robert Ayers, DE, Tennessee
I don't like this at all. Robert Ayers is a 1-year starter who wasn't nearly as productive as some of the other first-round prospects in this class. Ayers isn't a natural fit for the 3-4. Does he balloon up and play on the line? Do you play him at rush linebacker and get debacled in coverage? Then again, this pick was made by the same man who wanted a system quarterback over Jay Cutler. (Pick Grade: C)



uhm...debacled?...

is that you Emmitt?...

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 07:20 PM
TJesus H what are you smoking tonight Oskie?!

Must be from the emotional overload of seeing all those fat wide bodies masquerading as D-linemen float on by, most of whom are destined to be worthless bench warmers or situational backups at best!

There were no compelling D linemen today worth reaching for when instead we could and DID get some real players to build for the future. And that is PRECISELY what McD did. If you can't see that I'm sorry pal but your the one whose being blind here. Maybe you just need a good night sleep?

There is NO way we are going to fix the whole show in one draft. And there weren' t more than 8 or 9 dlinemen/OLB's in the whole draft worth really looking at and all 32 teams wanted them .... and yet we still got one of the best of them!

Focusing SOLELY on why we didnt draft mostly DLINE as if it was some magical mantra without regard to who was realistically possible for us to get, is being extremely myopic!

EVERY player selected was done deliberately and was a guy we have thoroughly vetted and not some knee jerk spur of the moment reach like Shanny was all to prone to doing when drafting defensive players.

This is a process, and we've definitely enhanced our total team the past two days and built some core resilience and redundancy into this team at key positions. Many, if not most, of whom will contribute some immediately (with the exception of the QB).

It was McD and Xanders very first draft and they got a hell of lot more right than they got wrong. They aren't perfect, infallable Beings descended from a race of Demigods as some of the diehard charter members of 'The OM Pussie Brigade" (OPB) 8') here seem to expect them to be!

And you're usually not with that crowd, right?

Whatever, all this crying about no new Dlineman overlooks Carlton Powell entirely!

He is much better than any of the guys left after round 3 today and probably higher, and all you guys act as if he's some guaranteed bust when he hasn't even had a chance to win .. or lose ..a job yet!

And you know one thing that sealed our fate last year and doomed us to lose those last few games? It was STUPID coaching that made them yank a couple of stud rookie LB's in Woodyard and Larsen playing exllent ball, and instead go with the vets in favor of Webster and DJ returning from injuries when they obviously not ready yet to put 100% on the field. Our tackling and play-making at those positions, which had helped us beat Cleveland and Atlanta with the rookies in went all to sh**ts the last few games!

It wasn't just a lousy scheme and not having any players, it was becuase the coaches went automatically with the vets instead of using the best guys on the field at the time.

We are not going to get Star big name players at every frigging position! Our Dline WILL play better with good coaching in a new disciplined system than in that emotional fiasco last year, no matter what.

And our LB core and Secondary are significantly improved just from the fact of second year guys like Spencer and Woodyard knowing what they are doing now, not to mention Doom and Ayers!

So why not put a cork in trail of tears and gnashing of teeth before the whiners make themselves look any more foolish! That's not like you Oskie! A good sleep might help clarify that the sky really isn't falling. Not just yet anyway.

When we go 0-16 you can start b****in' :-)


So you think that McD is better at drafting than Shanny? Shanny couldn't draft to save his life right?

You're kind of on the right track here though and I agree with you. We are not going to be extraordinary next year. We have some serious building to do. I'm actually okay with that and expected it given our tough schedule next year. Hell, I figured even with Cutler running the offense and Nolan/McD improving the defense/offense/"kicking game", we were a 7 or 8 win team b/c of the uber tough schedule. Now without Cutler I'm guessing 7 wins would be a great success. I think 5-11 is probably likely. Either way, we're given up a top 15 pick next year for Alphonso Smith... who I think is a good player. Perhaps you're getting too much beachtime and have sunned your common sense out, but giving up a potential top 10 pick while rebuilding for a 2nd round pick is flat out stupid! If Shanny had done something like that what would you say. Seriously, take a step back and think about in those terms.

If this were the Chiefs, Chargers, or Raiders we would be laughing at them. Not b/c the picks were poor, but b/c they were screwing up their value in the future. We had positioned ourselves nicely for the future. We had the ability to draft high next year and then trade down with our 2nd #1 and carry that forward. I'm disappointed b/c I thought that McD would have learned that from Bilicheat. The master once again turned two third round picks this year into two 2nd round picks next year. His 2nd round picks are just as good as our #18 and #37 picks. It's not so much about the players, its about the value you gave up to get those players. And finally, wtf is up with taking McBath over William Moore... or even the super leader Rashad Johnson?

SonOfLe-loLang
04-26-2009, 07:35 PM
This is the only thing that gives me any hope in this defense. I think we're going to be a decent offense with a both 10 defense again. Fortunately I think McD by himself can help us score more points. Add Moreno to that and I have a lot of confidence in our offense right now. Orton can throw the ball 5 yards which is where he will hit McMarshal and McRoyal and let them gain some yards after the catch. I think it's funny that people think that Quinn was added to protect Orton. He was added b/c as a TE he can line up a little wider and block (very effectively!) on the quick screens that McD loves to run. This offense will be fun and potent even if it is lacking in the intermediate areas.

As for the defense. Come on bro. I agree that we were extremely soft vs the pass and a lot of that had to do with the secondary as well as the pass rush. But rather than spending (collectively) $20-30m on Hill, Goodman, Buckhalter, Arrington, Jordan, Reid, and a few other FAs, wouldn't it have made sense to sign either Bart Scott or Chris Canty? I suppose we just put together the draft plan in recent weeks will be your response which leads me to my next point of having very little direction this offseason.

Lacking in the intermediate areas? Explain.

I personally see an offense that is very explosive and full of depth around Orton. Now, Orton is a bit of an unknown quantity, but I do know he's playing in back of arguably the best line in football, throwing to a fantastic group of receivers (Marshall, Royal, Gaffney, Stokely, Scheff..pretty good) and now we've added a game breaking runner to go along with a good group filled with different skill sets (and a few of them who can really catch out of the backfield.)

I see only two possible things holding back this offense.
1) If Orton really does suck, but he's not a mistake prone Qb and has a nice arm.

2) The offense being installed is completely new and, apparently, incredibly complex. So if results dont come immediately, it might be due to the learning curve of the offense. That's just a natural drawback of learning something new.

But, on paper, I think its amazing how many facets of the offensive game McDaniels has covered. Seriously, we have offensive players that really cover all formations and all styles.

gunns
04-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Sounds like one of the pussies on this board wrote it.

Is this some 8th grader with a blog or something?

Nope, it was written by someone that doesn't have the bias of being a Bronco fan, either hate filled or a sheep. And yes, I am one of the pussies. ;D

I'm just wondering what we're going to use for a D line. Any suggestions? Once again we have an offense and basically no D. I don't see the rationale in firing Shanahan at this point and I was one for it.

Popps
04-26-2009, 10:45 PM
Nope, it was written by someone that doesn't have the bias of being a Bronco fan, either hate filled or a sheep. And yes, I am one of the pussies. ;D

I'm just wondering what we're going to use for a D line. Any suggestions? Once again we have an offense and basically no D. I don't see the rationale in firing Shanahan at this point and I was one for it.

Well, again... people stating we don't have a D-line probably aren't looking at this rationally.

We just selected the top DE prospect in the entire draft, according to Mayock and many others.

We also signed Fields and Reid, two guys Nolan was high on. Does anyone on this board have proof that they won't produce as well as one of these 2nd -7th round picks would have? Unlikely. More likely, Nolan has some idea what he's doing, and these guys will fit the system nicely.

I also believe that Thomas will play very well as a 3-4 DE, and Powell will get a look. I'll guarantee you Nolan/McD did a ton of homework on Powell before this draft, as he was basically a free draft pick.

Also consider, we now move Elvis into a role where he's more suited. He won't be locked in the grasp of a 400 LB ****ing LT on every play. He'll be able to use some of that speed and agility in space to make plays.

People need to remember that DL in a 3-4 isn't about flashy play. It's about eating up blockers and clogging running lanes, something Fields is said to excel at doing.

Beyond that, the off-season isn't over. We already signed an intriguing LB and DT as street free agents, and I wouldn't be surprised to see us take a look at additional help from NFL free agents.

Is every piece in place? No, but we've done a LOT to shore up this defense. Rome wasn't built in a friggin' day. We knew this season could be rocky. We're building out a proper team structure, not panicking and signing bums like Sam Adams, Simeon Rice, Moss and Crowder.

BroncoBuff
04-27-2009, 12:42 AM
All these guys with the alibis saying "there were no good d-linemen" ... it's all 100% rationalization and Josh-Koolaid gulpers.

You guys can prove me wrong, though: point to one post you made before the draft saying that, saying we'll hve trouble getting d-linemen because there aren't many worth the picks. If you can't point to one, then all your explanations are merely after-the-fact alibi and excuse-making.

Which is okay ... but just don't criticize us Front 7 guys as if we're making silly complaints, and are foolishly "reaching" for talent that's not there. Belichick found plenty of talent there. Nuff said.