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View Full Version : Smith vs. Raji


broncobum6162
04-26-2009, 10:23 AM
If we were willing to sacrifice one of our first rounders next year for a CB (which we need but not as bad as a NT) why weren't we willing to toss it for a deal to move up 4 spots to get Raji? This whole draft stinks for me because even though we picked up some quality players, we've AGAIN ignored the MAJOR problem and most glaring need w/ this team which is the DL. This has been our achilles heel for 4 years now and the new regime seems content to go around this issue just like Shanahan did. Playoff games are won by great defenses and great defenses are anchored by great defensive lines. And don't even get me started on Quinn! :tearhair:

521 1N5
04-26-2009, 10:24 AM
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cmhargrove
04-26-2009, 10:25 AM
There are several teams in the top 10 that needed a big DT, and they passed on Raji - Why?

We'll see what kind of pro he becomes - if he can truly play 3-4 NT (which he has never played before), whether he looks great without another 330lb DT next to him, and if he is done with his off field issues. Time will tell.

Inkana7
04-26-2009, 10:27 AM
Foneco?

KS Bronco
04-26-2009, 10:29 AM
ive come to accept that our coaching staff and front office know what they are doing since they analyzed these players for 100 hours a week the past few months, and we, as fans, hear 'draft experts' throw out a few names and automatically fall in love with a player, should just watch the games and not think we are coaches.

tsiguy96
04-26-2009, 10:31 AM
ive come to accept that our coaching staff and front office know what they are doing since they analyzed these players for 100 hours a week the past few months, and we, as fans, hear 'draft experts' throw out a few names and automatically fall in love with a player, should just watch the games and not think we are coaches.

qft.

broncobum6162
04-26-2009, 10:34 AM
ive come to accept that our coaching staff and front office know what they are doing since they analyzed these players for 100 hours a week the past few months, and we, as fans, hear 'draft experts' throw out a few names and automatically fall in love with a player, should just watch the games and not think we are coaches.

Do you not agree that we need a major infusion of talent on the DL? Name one major improvement we've done to fix the DL.

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 10:35 AM
We'll see. It will take awhile. DT's take several years to develop, so even if we drafted him we wouldn't see real results until 2011 if that. For perspective, Albert Haynesworth was taken in the top 15 and took four years to show up. Mike Patterson was taken in '05 and didn't really start showing up until later in '07.

These picks will all take time.

Dagmar
04-26-2009, 10:35 AM
http://vi.sualize.us/thumbs/08/12/01/text-6ac0ec1212e521b3e4dd42d1112d316b_h.jpg

tsiguy96
04-26-2009, 10:39 AM
Do you not agree that we need a major infusion of talent on the DL? Name one major improvement we've done to fix the DL.

mike nolan is a defensive genius, if he thinks he can "make do" for a year with the people we have and take the BPA to help other parts of the team, ill agree with him. we DO need dline help, but this may not be the year that we do it, or it could be another 2007 with us reaching for dline help when they suck.

SportinOne
04-26-2009, 10:40 AM
We'll see. It will take awhile. DT's take several years to develop, so even if we drafted him we wouldn't see real results until 2011 if that. For perspective, Albert Haynesworth was taken in the top 15 and took four years to show up. Mike Patterson was taken in '05 and didn't really start showing up until later in '07.

These picks will all take time.

That's great, Kaylore, but now we are another year behind by your logic.

OABB
04-26-2009, 10:43 AM
ragi is overrated. In fact there isn't an NT in this draft that excites me more than fields...I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

I will say this, as a mcd hater, it is hard for me to say this, but all player's drafted so far are all good players, they all fit perfectly in our system, they are good hard worker's and quality character guys.

My only beef with this draft is the expense of these picks. But four good players is better than four good picks.

Mcd is slowly winning me over.

KS Bronco
04-26-2009, 10:46 AM
Do you not agree that we need a major infusion of talent on the DL? Name one major improvement we've done to fix the DL.

just saying possibly our new coaches can get more out of some players we have and that we still have day two to get defense.

OABB
04-26-2009, 10:49 AM
I think Foneco ruined it for the rest of these.... this one is good though.

broncobum6162
04-26-2009, 10:49 AM
mike nolan is a defensive genius, if he thinks he can "make do" for a year with the people we have and take the BPA to help other parts of the team, ill agree with him. we DO need dline help, but this may not be the year that we do it, or it could be another 2007 with us reaching for dline help when they suck.

Well, let's hope he's the genius because we are gonna need it!

Br0nc0Buster
04-26-2009, 10:50 AM
mike nolan is a defensive genius, if he thinks he can "make do" for a year with the people we have and take the BPA to help other parts of the team, ill agree with him. we DO need dline help, but this may not be the year that we do it, or it could be another 2007 with us reaching for dline help when they suck.

Slow down there.....9er fans would definitely disagree with you on that one

tsiguy96
04-26-2009, 10:51 AM
Well, let's hope he's the genius because we are gonna need it!

thats the plan :afro:

regardless, if nothing else i expect this team to give effort we havent seen in a long time. everyone will play harder, and i dont imagine we will be one of the worst defenses in the league again. if we are #20 we are doing damn good.

broncobum6162
04-26-2009, 10:53 AM
ragi is overrated. In fact there isn't an NT in this draft that excites me more than fields...I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

I will say this, as a mcd hater, it is hard for me to say this, but all player's drafted so far are all good players, they all fit perfectly in our system, they are good hard worker's and quality character guys.

My only beef with this draft is the expense of these picks. But four good players is better than four good picks.

Mcd is slowly winning me over.

Maybe so but my point is this. Is he any more overrated than Smith? Between the 2 for what it cost us I'd rather have Raji. My major b@#$%ch about this is that we blew one of our firsts next year for a player this year in a draft that is considered weak. Can't stand Belecheat but gotta give him props for the way he's loading up for next year.

WABronco
04-26-2009, 10:56 AM
http://vi.sualize.us/thumbs/08/12/01/text-6ac0ec1212e521b3e4dd42d1112d316b_h.jpg

LOL!

footstepsfrom#27
04-26-2009, 10:57 AM
ive come to accept that our coaching staff and front office know what they are doing since they analyzed these players for 100 hours a week the past few months, and we, as fans, hear 'draft experts' throw out a few names and automatically fall in love with a player, should just watch the games and not think we are coaches.
You don't need to be a Mensa candidate to know this team's ignored defensive needs for years and the results speak for themselves. If you think "being a coach" qualifes these guys as sports geniuses, think again. Your awe of their cognitive powers is misplaced. Anyone choosing this career could achieve similar knowlege simply by spending time at it. If coaches were smarter they'd be brain surgeons, not guys picking football players.

tsiguy96
04-26-2009, 10:58 AM
Maybe so but my point is this. Is he any more overrated than Smith? Between the 2 for what it cost us I'd rather have Raji. My major b@#$%ch about this is that we blew one of our firsts next year for a player this year in a draft that is considered weak. Can't stand Belecheat but gotta give him props for the way he's loading up for next year.

the thing is it doesnt matter if you classify this whole draft as weak, we took a single player from the draft who has teh character, work ethic and skills to be a player on this team NOW. he has teh skills of a first round CB by far, however his height was considered a problem, if nolan thinks it wont be i trust him.

HEAV
04-26-2009, 11:14 AM
Ragi, Ragi...Ragi?!

His name is Raji. You ****ing Madden playing, weekend fantasy football, beer drinking NFL coach...

I love how Mcdaniels has brought out the trolls of the orangemane and allowed them to add a few post counts to their name...

vancejohnson82
04-26-2009, 11:18 AM
this has Foneco written all over it...

manchambo
04-26-2009, 11:21 AM
ive come to accept that our coaching staff and front office know what they are doing since they analyzed these players for 100 hours a week the past few months, and we, as fans, hear 'draft experts' throw out a few names and automatically fall in love with a player, should just watch the games and not think we are coaches.

Then get the **** off this board. If no one should discuss what the team does, and everyone should just shut up and watch the game, wtf are you doing here? Why would we even have such a forum?

Comments like these drive me right out of my mind. It's just a way of saying you don't agree with a point someone else has made, don't have a substantive way of responding, and will therefore make some borderline-retarded moralistic comment about trusting the coaches, being a true fan, not being a whiner, or something similarly inane.

The OP also is borderline-retarded, btw, because it fails to recognize that getting Raji would have cost two picks, our number 12 and whatever we had to trade to move up, while Smith was acquired straight up for the pick. The proper comparison, in other words, is Smith and Moreno vs. Raji if you assume, as the OP does, that next year's first would have been the price to move up and get Raji.

Now look what you snivelling fuqtards have made me do. I actually just said something in defense of McStupid. You people are going to make me have a stroke.

tsiguy96
04-26-2009, 11:25 AM
Then get the **** off this board. If no one should discuss what the team does, and everyone should just shut up and watch the game, wtf are you doing here? Why would we even have such a forum?

Comments like these drive me right out of my mind. It's just a way of saying you don't agree with a point someone else has made, don't have a substantive way of responding, and will therefore make some borderline-retarded moralistic comment about trusting the coaches, being a true fan, not being a whiner, or something similarly inane.
.

discussion is one thing, condemning the team constantly when we havent seen a damn thing from them is completely different. the smart fans are willing to give teh team and players a chance, the idiot fans like apparently the majority of this board are saying the season is over, all the picks suck, mcdoofus sucks etc etc etc

see the difference? if someone is a bust, most of us will call it as it is. none of the players we have picked are busts (yet), and the players you people who think we HAVE to pick them or the draft was a waste are NOT stars (yet)

manchambo
04-26-2009, 11:30 AM
discussion is one thing, condemning the team constantly when we havent seen a damn thing from them is completely different. the smart fans are willing to give teh team and players a chance, the idiot fans like apparently the majority of this board are saying the season is over, all the picks suck, mcdoofus sucks etc etc etc

see the difference? if someone is a bust, most of us will call it as it is. none of the players we have picked are busts (yet), and the players you people who think we HAVE to pick them or the draft was a waste are NOT stars (yet)

Then we should shut this pointless board down until the games start, because there's no basis for discussion until we see if the players are any good.

And yet there are a bunch of people here, strangely, discussing the draft. Including you. And you are willing to say good things about some of the players. So it's not that you think people shouldn't discuss things before the games start, and it's not that you think people shouldn't talk about how good the players they drafted will be. They just shouldn't do it if they disagree with you.

broncobum6162
04-26-2009, 11:56 AM
Ragi, Ragi...Ragi?!

His name is Raji. You ****ing Madden playing, weekend fantasy football, beer drinking NFL coach...

I love how Mcdaniels has brought out the trolls of the orangemane and allowed them to add a few post counts to their name...

So please forgive me for misspelling his last name. And many thanks for calling me a troll. It would be nice to have an adult conversation about the draft and our differences w/o resorting to childish name calling. I think the many people who have actually met me on the board would tell you I'm as true blue(and orange) of a fan as the next guy. Besides, I don't play Madden, I don't do fantasy football but I do drink beer. And no I never have been nor do I claim to be an NFL coach. Its pretty bad when you can't question the reasoning behind 2 different scenarios w/o being called a troll. And what gives you the right to call me a troll for misplacing a "J" w/ a "G"? Lighten up man.

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:07 PM
Do you not agree that we need a major infusion of talent on the DL? Name one major improvement we've done to fix the DL.

1. Drafting the best DE in college football, according to Mayock.
2. Adding Fields, a guy Nolan thinks highly of in his system.
3. Adding Reid as a rotation DT/DE and resigning Peterson for the same.
4. Changing a scheme, which will likely result in better fits for guys like Dumervil and maybe even Moss.

So, the work has begun. It may not all happen at once, and the staff may believe they have more pieces in place than you do.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 12:09 PM
Do you not agree that we need a major infusion of talent on the DL? Name one major improvement we've done to fix the DL.

Darrel Reid, Ayers, Ron Fields, Carlton Powell all are better for those positions than the guys who are no longer here we fielded last year. Next question ...???

Marchus Tohoms in year 3 in this system is gonna be a standout. mark it down. Carlton Powell is going to do well too. Fields can hold his own and plug the middle though hes not as disruptive as Raji in penetration.

All in all I take Smith because if we trade up for Raji and spend the extra number one next year to do so ( which would really be over kill) then we lose Moreno too and having TWO playmakers like Moreno AND Smith on the team for years to come outweighs even a fatty like Raji ... assuming Raji even pans out in the NFL.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 12:10 PM
Do you not agree that we need a major infusion of talent on the DL? Name one major improvement we've done to fix the DL.

Darrel Reid, Ayers, Ron Fields, Carlton Powell all are better for those positions than the guys who are no longer here we fielded last year. Next question ...???

Marcus Thomas in year 3 in this system is gonna be a standout. mark it down. Carlton Powell is going to do well too. Fields can hold his own and plug the middle though hes not as disruptive as Raji in penetration.

All in all I take Smith because if we trade up for Raji and spend the extra number one next year to do so ( which would really be over kill) then we lose Moreno too and having TWO playmakers like Moreno AND Smith on the team for years to come outweighs even a fatty like Raji ... assuming Raji even pans out in the NFL.

broncobum6162
04-26-2009, 01:12 PM
1. Drafting the best DE in college football, according to Mayock.I agree, but will probably be used as an OLB in 3-4
2. Adding Fields, a guy Nolan thinks highly of in his system. Fields only has 1 sack and 97 tackles in 5 years
3. Adding Reid Only 2.5 sacks & 79 tackles in careeras a rotation DT/DE and resigning Peterson for the same.
4. Changing a scheme, which will likely result in better fits for guys like Dumervil and maybe even Moss. Moving them to OLB

So, the work has begun. It may not all happen at once, and the staff may believe they have more pieces in place than you do.


Popps, I put my thoughts in bold above. Most of what I feel we have done is what we've have done in the past. Bring in a few DL free agents and hope they stick and draft linebackers and DBs. Yes I believe Ayers will have an impact on defense and maybe they will use him on the DL. I believe we have shored up our linebackers by moving Moss, Doom and Crowder to LB. DB's also look good. Lets hope Nolan's system works better than the last. It definitly can't do worse. I just long for the days in many years past when we actually had a pass rush.