PDA

View Full Version : John Clayton is an idiot


The MVPlaya
04-26-2009, 12:03 AM
Anyone who read his little piece on the Broncos, it feels like home again with all the negative BS press we get.

He had no basis or reasoning to what he said, he just made statements to show what little football IQ he really has.

ZONA
04-26-2009, 12:07 AM
Clayton is just a retard that looks funny, I've always thought that, for years.

Broncosfreak_56
04-26-2009, 12:09 AM
http://www.petruzzo.com/wordpress/GollumMe_9F69/gollum.jpghttp://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/john_clayton.jpg

Atlas
04-26-2009, 01:02 AM
What did Denver do where anyone could be negative?

Atwater His Ass
04-26-2009, 01:03 AM
What did Denver do where anyone could be negative?

I'm really. Man the sun is bright when people crawl out from under that rock.

Natedog24
04-26-2009, 01:05 AM
http://www.petruzzo.com/wordpress/GollumMe_9F69/gollum.jpghttp://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/john_clayton.jpg


http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/mackey.png
The Bronco's drafted bad, mmmkay.

manchambo
04-26-2009, 01:08 AM
What did Denver do where anyone could be negative?


What's funny is how, when independent and knowledgeable people are presented the choice of concluding that McDaniels' totally unexplainable actions are the result of him either being the smartest or the dumbest person in the game right now, they usually choose the latter.

Atwater His Ass
04-26-2009, 01:12 AM
What's funny is how, when independent and knowledgeable people are presented the choice of concluding that McDaniels' totally unexplainable actions are the result of him either being the smartest or the dumbest person in the game right now, they usually choose the latter.

You must not be a real fan.

manchambo
04-26-2009, 01:15 AM
You must not be a real fan.


I'm a Cutler fanboy. In fact I'm totally gay for him.

watermock
04-26-2009, 01:18 AM
Indeed, we get to wait for the inevitable.

We used 3 of our 4 1st rounders on what?

A short DB, a slow RB and a undersized DE.

AND we traded our better 1st to boot.

We could of easily gotten Okoye, Greene, Jenkins without even trading our 2010 top 10 pick.

It's ludicrous to think otherwise.

broncocalijohn
04-26-2009, 01:19 AM
link? Dont critize him on his article when you havent stated a link or at least quotes he has said about the Broncos.

The MVPlaya
04-26-2009, 01:36 AM
link? Dont critize him on his article when you havent stated a link or at least quotes he has said about the Broncos.

Yeah, I'm making all this up.
:rofl:

Atwater His Ass
04-26-2009, 01:45 AM
I'm a Cutler fanboy. In fact I'm totally gay for him.

Makes sense.

Taco John
04-26-2009, 01:54 AM
We've gotten 13 posts into this thread, and still no information on what Clayton said. I don't understand the point of this thread. Are we supposed to talk about what Clayton said, or just talk about Clayton?

If we're supposed to talk about Clayton -- eh, he's kind of a pipsqueak.

If we're supposed to talk about what he said, some information might be helpful.

Blueflame
04-26-2009, 02:03 AM
My impression of the thread was... John Clayton said something mean about McDaniels, so let's make fun of his appearance and call him names....

Steve Sewell
04-26-2009, 02:07 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4100869

"5. Denver rookie head coach Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team. He signed three running backs in free agency and drafted another (Knowshon Moreno (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=24685)). And then he sent Denver's first-round choice in 2010 to Seattle for this year's 37th overall choice, which he used to pick cornerback Alphonso Smith (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=23927). That's bizarre. Mike Shanahan must be laughing at that one."

Atlas
04-26-2009, 02:40 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4100869

"5. Denver rookie head coach Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team. He signed three running backs in free agency and drafted another (Knowshon Moreno (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=24685)). And then he sent Denver's first-round choice in 2010 to Seattle for this year's 37th overall choice, which he used to pick cornerback Alphonso Smith (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=23927). That's bizarre. Mike Shanahan must be laughing at that one."


What about Denver spending $47 million on the secondary in FA, then drafting 3 DBs while ignoring the front seven altogether???

Genius at work

Drek
04-26-2009, 02:42 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4100869

"5. Denver rookie head coach Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team. He signed three running backs in free agency and drafted another (Knowshon Moreno (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=24685)). And then he sent Denver's first-round choice in 2010 to Seattle for this year's 37th overall choice, which he used to pick cornerback Alphonso Smith (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=23927). That's bizarre. Mike Shanahan must be laughing at that one."

Yeah, its so bizarre adding a playmaking RB who fits your offensive system.

And a nickel CB who has good man skills and could move into the 1 or 2 spot when Goodman or Bailey hang sit up? What the hell you need him for!?

Should've drafted Jarron Gilbert. I mean he's raw as hell and has never shown anything impressive on a football field, but damn can't he ever jump out of a swimming pool! Thats how you address need. Take guys who might be ready to play two or three years from now, not guys who can contribute day one.

Atwater His Ass
04-26-2009, 02:49 AM
Yeah, its so bizarre adding a playmaking RB who fits your offensive system.

And a nickel CB who has good man skills and could move into the 1 or 2 spot when Goodman or Bailey hang sit up? What the hell you need him for!?

Should've drafted Jarron Gilbert. I mean he's raw as hell and has never shown anything impressive on a football field, but damn can't he ever jump out of a swimming pool! Thats how you address need. Take guys who might be ready to play two or three years from now, not guys who can contribute day one.

So you're cool with trading next year's first rounder for a CB drafted in the 2nd round?

Never Trust a Snake
04-26-2009, 02:55 AM
Should've drafted Jarron Gilbert. I mean he's raw as hell and has never shown anything impressive on a football field, but damn can't he ever jump out of a swimming pool!

Never shown anything impressive on a football field? Gilbert won the WAC Defensive Player of the Year last season. What more do you want from a mid-major defensive lineman?

missingnumber7
04-26-2009, 03:01 AM
What about Denver spending $47 million on the secondary in FA, then drafting 3 DBs while ignoring the front seven altogether???

Genius at work

We've drafted 3 DB's before...and look at how thats worked for us. Best draft pick we had at the time, gets shot, Paymah gets let go, and Foxworth was traded last year. HMMM...is the second coming going to be any better.?

snowspot66
04-26-2009, 06:53 AM
Because there is no difference in taking three CB's in the first three rounds while praying one works out because Indy just torched us again and taking a ball hawking safety and CB both considered to be very solid players. No difference at all......

chex
04-26-2009, 06:59 AM
The real lesson here is that ESPN sucks, unless they say something to back up your opinion.

chex
04-26-2009, 07:01 AM
We've drafted 3 DB's before...and look at how thats worked for us. Best draft pick we had at the time, gets shot, Paymah gets let go, and Foxworth was traded last year. HMMM...is the second coming going to be any better.?

We've drafted 3 DL before too......how'd that go?

dsmoot
04-26-2009, 07:02 AM
http://www.petruzzo.com/wordpress/GollumMe_9F69/gollum.jpghttp://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/john_clayton.jpg

Which one is John Clayton???

Que
04-26-2009, 07:08 AM
http://www.petruzzo.com/wordpress/GollumMe_9F69/gollum.jpghttp://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/john_clayton.jpg

Classic. I approve this message

footstepsfrom#27
04-26-2009, 07:10 AM
http://www.petruzzo.com/wordpress/GollumMe_9F69/gollum.jpghttp://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/john_clayton.jpg
Gollum looks good in a coat & tie.

TonyR
04-26-2009, 07:13 AM
We used 3 of our 4 1st rounders on what?

A short DB, a slow RB and a undersized DE.


I understand some of the negative sentiments about this draft but you lose credibility when you refer to the consensus best RB in this draft as "a slow RB". It's fine to make arguments against this draft but BS like this makes you look like a fool.

Rulon Velvet Jones
04-26-2009, 07:14 AM
Ahahahaha...Moreno is slow. Riiiiiiiight...

CEH
04-26-2009, 07:18 AM
I understand some of the negative sentiments about this draft but you lose credibility when you refer to the consensus best RB in this draft as "a slow RB". It's fine to make arguments against this draft but BS like this makes you look like a fool.

Knowshon is as fast in the 1st qtr as in the 4th. I really like that he will bring a toughness for 4 qtrs.

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 07:19 AM
We've gotten 13 posts into this thread, and still no information on what Clayton said. I don't understand the point of this thread. Are we supposed to talk about what Clayton said, or just talk about Clayton?

If we're supposed to talk about Clayton -- eh, he's kind of a pipsqueak.

If we're supposed to talk about what he said, some information might be helpful.

THIS! I'm still trying to figure out WTF he said... and oh btw, I probably agree already!

TonyR
04-26-2009, 07:22 AM
...and a undersized DE.


"Robert Ayers is the best defensive player coming out of this draft," said Mayock. "You can get creative with Ayers. He brings you scheme versatility on defense. I think he's a special player."

Mayock had Ayers ranked as the third-best player in the draft behind Virginia tackle Eugene Monroe and Georgia tailback Knowshon Moreno, selected by the Broncos six picks ahead of Ayers.

Again, there are plenty of arguments to be made against this draft. But you need to do better than "slow RB" and "undersized DE".

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 07:28 AM
Yeah, its so bizarre adding a playmaking RB who fits your offensive system.

And a nickel CB who has good man skills and could move into the 1 or 2 spot when Goodman or Bailey hang sit up? What the hell you need him for!?

Should've drafted Jarron Gilbert. I mean he's raw as hell and has never shown anything impressive on a football field, but damn can't he ever jump out of a swimming pool! Thats how you address need. Take guys who might be ready to play two or three years from now, not guys who can contribute day one.

Maybe not Gilbert but how about Ron Brace at 37? We need a NT. We also need some QB pressure. You can draft Champ Bailey clones all day. If you don't get pressure on the QB you'll fail, even Champ Bailey can't cover for 5 or 6 seconds all the time. So at 37 Everette Brown would have made some sense.

I love Knowshon Moreno. One of my favorite players in the past several years. But, you need help on the front 7 and have Orakpo sitting there. You're afraid that the Chargers might take Knowshon... then move up in front of them! Not sure if you noticed but it was costing teams a 6th round pick to move up two spots in the 1st round. We could have VERY easily sent a 4th to move up to #15 in front of the Chargers. Giving us both Orakpo and Moreno which would have been a dream scenario.

We addressed the same positions as we did in Free Agency. Everybody is going what the hell, okay we'll just draft them. Then we don't even draft them. So you think, okay this is obviously a two or three year project... but then we give up our first round pick next year that is VERY likely to be in the top 15 if not the top 10, especially when you consider our schedule next year. You think that Alphonso Smith is a better prospect than say Cody, Mays, McCoy, Bradford, Tebow, Suh, Spikes, or Herzlich??? That's what we gave up for Alphonso Smith!

~Crash~
04-26-2009, 07:32 AM
My impression of the thread was... John Clayton said something mean about McDaniels, so let's make fun of his appearance and call him names....

that is the speed of quite a few broncos fans these days back biting is horses and children and good portion bronco fans these days .:peace:

Wes Mantooth
04-26-2009, 07:32 AM
Clayton looks to be just about right on. We had a horrible day yesterday.

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 07:33 AM
"Robert Ayers is the best defensive player coming out of this draft," said Mayock. "You can get creative with Ayers. He brings you scheme versatility on defense. I think he's a special player."

Mayock had Ayers ranked as the third-best player in the draft behind Virginia tackle Eugene Monroe and Georgia tailback Knowshon Moreno, selected by the Broncos six picks ahead of Ayers.

Again, there are plenty of arguments to be made against this draft. But you need to do better than "slow RB" and "undersized DE".

Moreno IS slow all things considered. But, speed isn't the end all be all. He's a tremendous back that brings all kinds of versatility. I love the pick if we didn't have other major needs. At any rate, I think Moreno has really learned to play with his speed. He is certainly more quick than fast which is fine. His balance, elusiveness, and vision will allow him to run away from defenders negating the speed issue. But what I like most about Knowshon is his intensity. You wanna talk about a sparkplug that gets his teammates fired up... that is Knowshon!

Breaker
04-26-2009, 07:35 AM
Moreno IS slow all things considered. But, speed isn't the end all be all. He's a tremendous back that brings all kinds of versatility. I love the pick if we didn't have other major needs. At any rate, I think Moreno has really learned to play with his speed. He is certainly more quick than fast which is fine. His balance, elusiveness, and vision will allow him to run away from defenders negating the speed issue. But what I like most about Knowshon is his intensity. You wanna talk about a sparkplug that gets his teammates fired up... that is Knowshon!

Exactly. That is IF we didn't have massive needs on the defensive side of the ball.

TonyR
04-26-2009, 07:39 AM
Moreno IS slow all things considered.

Yes, and so was Terrell Davis.

SportinOne
04-26-2009, 07:39 AM
Slow because he ran a 4.5 instead of a 4.3? Quick, see if you can count .2

Most overrated stat ever...

Broncoman13
04-26-2009, 07:44 AM
Yes, and so was Terrell Davis.

Moreno is much faster (and quicker) than Terrell Davis. TD was more powerful but Knowshon is a much more developed runner than TD.

Sorry if people don't like or want to hear the fact that he is a 4.6 guy. Not that it matters b/c he's learned to use that speed to his advantage by focusing on other things such as spin moves, stutter steps, hurdles, and an above average stiff arm.

Drek
04-26-2009, 07:59 AM
So you're cool with trading next year's first rounder for a CB drafted in the 2nd round?

I'm not crazy about it, but I'll wait for the dust to settle. Someone referenced McDaniels saying the 1st given up is the lesser of the two #1's next year. If thats the case and the Broncos had Smith anywhere on their board from the early to late 20's then they made a good move. I'd take the bet that at least one of the Broncos or Bears is a playoff team next year.

Never shown anything impressive on a football field? Gilbert won the WAC Defensive Player of the Year last season. What more do you want from a mid-major defensive lineman?

Wow the WAC, thats a DL powerhouse conference. Oh, and he played DT there, not a 5-tech DE.

Its not my evaluation saying that he's incredibly raw and unproven, its pretty much every draft analyst and professional out there. Raw but big upside, still on the board through round 2.

Maybe not Gilbert but how about Ron Brace at 37? We need a NT. We also need some QB pressure. You can draft Champ Bailey clones all day. If you don't get pressure on the QB you'll fail, even Champ Bailey can't cover for 5 or 6 seconds all the time. So at 37 Everette Brown would have made some sense.
Everette Brown would make no sense. One, we already had drafted Ayers and have Dumervil, Reid, Moss, Crowder, etc. as rush OLB types. Is it stocked with proven talent? No but you got a lot of guys with some potential. Two, notice how he didn't even get taken by a 3-4 team? Those questions about his ability to move to LB full time appear to be in the minds of a lot of FOs.

I love Knowshon Moreno. One of my favorite players in the past several years. But, you need help on the front 7 and have Orakpo sitting there. You're afraid that the Chargers might take Knowshon... then move up in front of them! Not sure if you noticed but it was costing teams a 6th round pick to move up two spots in the 1st round. We could have VERY easily sent a 4th to move up to #15 in front of the Chargers. Giving us both Orakpo and Moreno which would have been a dream scenario.
Supposedly they were looking to move #18 up but couldn't find a taker. However, they prefered Ayers over Orakpo so they wouldn't have taken anyone differently.

If Ayers was the pick at #12 and Moreno at #18 I think a lot of people would be viewing this differently, but that misses the logic of what was on the board at the time. Moreno was probably BPA at #12 and the only RB they'd be willing to take in the first round. Ayers, Orakpo, English, and the USC guys were all still on the board, with five picks between our first and second selections. They bet on Ayers sliding through due to more players in that talent pool and they were right, despite three of the five picks going to DE/OLB types.

That shows some good diagnosis of how other teams view this draft, and knowing where you can get the players you want.

We addressed the same positions as we did in Free Agency. Everybody is going what the hell, okay we'll just draft them. Then we don't even draft them. So you think, okay this is obviously a two or three year project... but then we give up our first round pick next year that is VERY likely to be in the top 15 if not the top 10, especially when you consider our schedule next year. You think that Alphonso Smith is a better prospect than say Cody, Mays, McCoy, Bradford, Tebow, Suh, Spikes, or Herzlich??? That's what we gave up for Alphonso Smith!
As I said previously, lets wait and see what the exact stipulations of that compensation actually is.

As for where we took our picks, it makes sense for a team looking to build a legitimate long term defense. We signed some stop gap solid veterans in the secondary, but we need a layer of depth behind them. Ideally that layer of depth will be able to contribute from day one, and it can.

I'm looking forward to see what they do in rounds 4-7 because to me that is where you finally start to see some ok DL value. Nothing special but some developmental NTs and some solid 5-tech prospects are going to come off the board in that range. If we walk away with a handful of them I'll be fairly satisfied with this draft.

SouthStndJunkie
04-26-2009, 08:02 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4100869

"5. Denver rookie head coach Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team. He signed three running backs in free agency and drafted another (Knowshon Moreno (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=24685)). And then he sent Denver's first-round choice in 2010 to Seattle for this year's 37th overall choice, which he used to pick cornerback Alphonso Smith (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&id=23927). That's bizarre. Mike Shanahan must be laughing at that one."

I can't really say that I disagree with Clayton's take.

Steve Prefontaine
04-26-2009, 08:19 AM
Yeah, its so bizarre adding a playmaking RB who fits your offensive system.

You didn't really address Clayton's point. He said nothing about Moreno being a bad pick. His point was that Denver signed 3 FA running backs and then used their first pick on....a RB. You have to admit it appears that Denver's planning this offseason is a bit inconsistent. One way or another there is wasted money or picks.

Drek
04-26-2009, 08:32 AM
You didn't really address Clayton's point. He said nothing about Moreno being a bad pick. His point was that Denver signed 3 FA running backs and then used their first pick on....a RB. You have to admit it appears that Denver's planning this offseason is a bit inconsistent. One way or another there is wasted money or picks.

Makes sense to me. We signed solid depth, not gamebreakers. We drafted a gamebreaker.

Arrington isn't a great receiver out of the backfield, he was brought in to be a change of pace home run hitter and help in the return game.

Jordan is just adding some size to the depth chart, probably competing directly with Torain for the short yardage backup role.

The guys who were looking at significant playing time though was the winner of a positional battle between Buckhalter/Young, and Peyton Hillis.

Is Moreno a massive upgrade over Buckhalter and Young? Yep. Are both of those guys health concerns while Moreno is not? Yep.

It puts Buckhalter or Young (whichever one makes it through pre-season) into the role they should be in, #3 back who gets 5-10 looks a game while Moreno is getting 15-20 and Hillis is getting 10-15.

Steve Prefontaine
04-26-2009, 08:56 AM
Makes sense to me. We signed solid depth, not gamebreakers. We drafted a gamebreaker.

Arrington isn't a great receiver out of the backfield, he was brought in to be a change of pace home run hitter and help in the return game.

Jordan is just adding some size to the depth chart, probably competing directly with Torain for the short yardage backup role.

The guys who were looking at significant playing time though was the winner of a positional battle between Buckhalter/Young, and Peyton Hillis.

Is Moreno a massive upgrade over Buckhalter and Young? Yep. Are both of those guys health concerns while Moreno is not? Yep.

It puts Buckhalter or Young (whichever one makes it through pre-season) into the role they should be in, #3 back who gets 5-10 looks a game while Moreno is getting 15-20 and Hillis is getting 10-15.

Once again, I'm not arguing the Moreno pick. I like it and it makes sense and he (hopefully) is a major upgrade over our current stable.

I think the mistakes were made with all the "depth" signings you mention. I can see a role for Arrington, but the Buckhalter signing doesn't make much sense to me. Wasted money IMO.

What would you project as the depth chart?

Never Trust a Snake
04-27-2009, 02:13 PM
Wow the WAC, thats a DL powerhouse conference. Oh, and he played DT there, not a 5-tech DE.

Its not my evaluation saying that he's incredibly raw and unproven, its pretty much every draft analyst and professional out there. Raw but big upside, still on the board through round 2.

Not every lineman is going to come from a BCS conference, Gilbert dominated his competition like he was suppose to, recording 22 TFL and 9.5 sacks last season.

While he didn't play in a 3-4 at San Jose St., he did show versatility playing both inside and outside in Dick Tomey's and Ken Burns' defense.

You say Gilbert is "unproven", well every defensive lineman coming into the NFL is "unproven". You are wrong though when you act like Gilbert did nothing at the collegiate level, which couldn't be further from the truth.

I agree with you though that Gilbert needs to improve his technique. He is raw in that sense. He did play on his ability a lot, but he's also a very smart player with great makeup.

I am not upset at all the Broncos didn't draft Gilbert, but I hate to see somebody say he did nothing on the field when that is not justified.

Rohirrim
04-27-2009, 02:21 PM
We've gotten 13 posts into this thread, and still no information on what Clayton said. I don't understand the point of this thread. Are we supposed to talk about what Clayton said, or just talk about Clayton?

If we're supposed to talk about Clayton -- eh, he's kind of a pipsqueak.

If we're supposed to talk about what he said, some information might be helpful.

:rofl:

bronco militia
04-27-2009, 02:28 PM
I can't really say that I disagree with Clayton's take.

other than Shanny had a few draft days just like Mc****face

Natedogg
04-27-2009, 02:38 PM
http://www.dentrocine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/robocop_murphy.jpghttp://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/john_clayton.jpg