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Requiem
04-25-2009, 08:59 PM
The Broncos started the day with the #12, #18 and #48 picks on Day One -- but ended up picking five players in hopes to bolster their offense, defense and special teams in 2009. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding some of the selections, so I have decided to go ahead and give my thoughts on the matter.

Knowshon Moreno, #12 - Absolutely fantastic pick. I didn't want Orakpo. I also didn't want to see the Broncos panic and reach for another player. I know a lot of people think that this is a wasted pick or a luxury pick, but I agree with McDaniels' statement that "When a back like him is available, you take him." Moreno is a superb runner and can catch the ball well. He should be a front contender for OROY honors. I think it is a great selection value wise and I do believe it fit a need. Moreno isn't a rental or a scrub. He is a long-term option for this team and can be a face to our offensive franchise.

Robert Ayers, #18 - Ayers is an extremely interesting prospect, but a quality one. He's a versatile player who will be able to play with his hand up or down. He has drawn some minor comparisons to Adalius Thomas and ultimately I think that is how he will be used. I certainly hope he isn't a one year wonder and do honestly believe his best football is in front of him. I feel much more comfortable with him at #18 than I would have at #12 or someone like Orakpo at #12.

Alphonso Smith, #37 - I absolutely love this pick. I do not mind giving up a future first-rounder because you just "never know" with the value and it is going to save us money in the long-term. He is an absolute ball-hawk and is solid in run support. He's smart and a team leader as well. For 5'9 -- he is extremely stout; had he been 5'11 or 6'0 -- he is easily a first-rounder. It sounds like McDaniels and the Broncos had an extremely high grade on him, first-round value. He can play special teams too as a gunner or returner. That's value. He can also start, but will more than likely be a nickel corner to begin with. Considering Goodman and Bailey's age, along with the lack of depth behind them (Paymah left, Williams still young and unproven) -- it's understandable that the Broncos went in a direction that can pay off immediately and long term.

Darcel McBath, #48 - This is another selection I'm excited about. He profiles as a free safety in the NFL. He has superior ball skills and plays with good instincts. He is also athletic. Yes, people can grade this pick down because of William Moore and others being available -- but does it not fill a need? How much can we expect out of Dawkins and the others in the long-term? McBath also plays special teams. He has the opportunity to learn from one of the best safeties that ever played and can get tips from defensive backs like Champ Bailey as well. I do not fault the Broncos for getting such a player.

Richard Quinn, #64 - At first this pick was not something that settled well with me given the other players on board, especially tight end -- but it does make sense. The tight ends in McDaniels' system primarily serve in a blocking role. Yes we have Graham, but we know that isn't Scheffler's forte. Who is to say Scheffler isn't going to be moved still? Would he even re-sign here in Denver after next season anyways? We didn't have a third tight end on the roster either. Yes, I would have prefered someone else, but Quinn is a great blocking tight end and has decent hands. According to McDaniels, he was excellent in the personal workout and can catch the ball well; but North Carolina didn't utilize him in that fashion.

Overall, I'd give the Broncos a solid B for Day One; with the only issue being the value given up -- and the Quinn selection having some ambiguity. All and all, I believe it was a solid first day. I know we all have our favorite prospects and stuff like that, but honestly -- how can you guys be that disappointed? Long-term RB we've been looking for. A solid option at OLB/DE (Joker) in our defense, along with two defensive backs who will make our secondary younger and a tight end who has the potential to replace Scheffler when he leaves. (He will.)

Not bad at all.

barryr
04-25-2009, 09:02 PM
I agree. I had some other guys I wanted instead, but the picks make sense to me. Time will tell how good these picks were, but I like how "toughness" seems to be a common description of these guys. It's been awhile since this team has been known as tough.

BroncoBuff
04-25-2009, 09:06 PM
You "love" all the picks ... and Quinn "makes sense."

Really?

rovolution
04-25-2009, 09:07 PM
My problem is that we still have no legit NT on this football team.

When Belicheat swooped in and took Brace, i was like oh s***.

I just dont see how you can run a 3-4 without a NT. we currently have none. dont tell me Ronald Fields is a nose tackle. if so, were gonna get gashed up the gut. I dont see any good NT prospects tomorrow. Hopefully next years draft will have more NT options that will be available to us.

Harvitz81
04-25-2009, 09:07 PM
I just hope we move Scheffler for a third tomorrow and get something for him now. There are still a lot of good prospects left like Gilbert, Lee Hill, etc..

Malcontent
04-25-2009, 09:14 PM
Nice to hear a positive review Req..But I still think we reached wayyyy too much on thes 2nd rd guys, and gave up way too much for them. But, if they pan out and are "Eddie Royal" good, we will all love this draft.

scttgrd
04-25-2009, 09:14 PM
They crapped thier pants and all you can say is "great day". You need to take your meds.

bpc
04-25-2009, 09:17 PM
ha ha.

I like Moreno's attitude. I don't like his style of play lasting a long time in the NFL. His frame will not sustain IMO.

Ayers is overrated. Everybody hypes this guy but he had 3.5 sacks his senior year. He was a slippery player at the senior bowl but there wasn't one thing I thought that he did great. 9 career sacks. Not really the guy I want to hang our teams hat on to generate pass rush.

I liked Smith, not for our 1st round pick next year though. He's a nickel corner right now with elite playmaking skills in the pass game. STILL, WE HAVE NO PASS RUSH. Muted. That pick could have been Taylor Mays who just walked right out the door. Chicago's 1st round pick? Fine. Our's? STUPID.

McBath is blah. I liked Moore better.

The cherry on top is the BACKUP TE for 2 3rd round picks. Laughable.

Broncoman13
04-25-2009, 09:18 PM
Nice write up Req, I agree with the first three picks. Not nearly as high on McBath as you are and I lived in the Panhandle for several years so know Tech football quite well and have paid attention to them the past few years as well. McBath is ordinary. I do think it's funny that many people (scouts) refer to him as a ballhawk and then say he's not a playmaker. WTF is that???

Quinn... meh! Here is a guy that is a terrific blocker at TE.

Travis McCall
Height: 6-2 | Weight: 260 | 40-Time: 4.75

Official Bio

Strengths:
Very good bulk...Great strength...Is tough and physical...Excellent blocker...May offer some versatility...Can also contribute on special teams...Durable...Has lots of experience...Hard worker...Team player.

Weaknesses:
Does not have the height that you'd prefer...Lacks great timed speed and quickness...Wasn't utilized much as a pass catcher...May be a bit of a 'tweener...Was not overly productive...Upside is probably limited.

Notes:
Was a three-year starter in the SEC...Could also project to fullback at the next level...Ranks second on the Crimson Tide's all-time games played list...Received an invitation to the Senior Bowl...Has more potential as a receiver than he showed at Alabama...Was a blocking specialist in college and that will be his ticket to making an NFL roster.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Career Statistics
Year GP Rec Yds YPC TD
2005 12 3 22 7.3 0
2006 13 8 105 13.1 1
2007 13 6 45 7.5 0
2008 13 7 52 7.4 0
Totals 51 24 224 9.3 1

bpc
04-25-2009, 09:18 PM
ha ha.

I like Moreno's attitude. I don't like his style of play lasting a long time in the NFL. His frame will not sustain IMO.

Ayers is overrated. Everybody hypes this guy but he had 3.5 sacks his senior year. He was a slippery player at the senior bowl but there wasn't one thing I thought that he did great. 9 career sacks. Not really the guy I want to hang our teams hat on to generate pass rush.

I liked Smith, not for our 1st round pick next year though. He's a nickel corner right now with elite playmaking skills in the pass game. STILL, WE HAVE NO PASS RUSH. Muted. That pick could have been Taylor Mays who just walked right out the door. Chicago's 1st round pick? Fine. Our's? STUPID.

McBath is blah. I liked Moore better.

The cherry on top is the BACKUP TE for 2 3rd round picks. Laughable.

GoBroncos84
04-25-2009, 09:19 PM
I don't have an issue with any of the players. I think we reached on McBath and Quinn, but I don't mind that we took them. I like Smith a lot, understand the reasoning for drafting him. I just hate that we used a first next year instead of using picks this year to do it. I'm stoked about Knowshon and excited to see what we have with Ayers and Smith. McBath has the skill set to be very good down the line learning from Dawkins and Champ. Quinn fits the system. I just question the value, because McBath and Quinn could have been had later IMO and we paid a big price for Smith. I hope I am wrong, but I think our pick next year will be higher than Chicago, so it would have been better to send that pick. And I think we should have gotten more, like a pick this year or one next year to help compensate for losing a 1st.

No issue with the players selected, big issue with the value and what we gave up. Not having any thirds its going to be hard to get quality d-lineman on day 2

skpac1001
04-25-2009, 09:23 PM
I can see an argument against picking him in the second, but Quinn is the best blocking TE in the draft and looks to have pretty good hands also. When you face as many 3-4 teams as we will and your offensive problems are mostly in the red zone, having two TE set with good blockers on both sides is a good thing.

NFLBRONCO
04-25-2009, 09:23 PM
What is it with Denver WE ALWAYS are afraid to draft front 7 no matter who is in charge. We give up picks like Washington.

Broncoman13
04-25-2009, 09:27 PM
Somebody want to explain to me how we're going to move Tony Scheffler when there are still 5 or 6 TE's that are of the same mold? We won't get a 3rd for him this year and we may not be able to get a 3rd for him next year.

The one thing that is still really bothering me is the pass rush and NT. I think Thomas, Powell, and Peterson can hold down the ends when we show the 3-4 front. But, if the plan is to eventually go to that front on a consistent basis... we need the players now! The 3rd round could have been ideal for some help along the DLine. Maybe a guy will slide in the 4th and 5th rounds... but I doubt we'd even look that way anyhow!

ludo21
04-25-2009, 09:32 PM
we got a TE who most likely will be available in the 5th.. not wise imo..

Jekyll15Hyde
04-25-2009, 09:34 PM
I like Ayers just because of the fact we actually drafted at a position that we needed. I can live with Moreno although I am not in love with the pick at this point.

From there, we traded into day 1 to take players at positions that are not huge needs? Quinn??? WTF. A blocking TE in an offense that will usually put the TE in the slot? I like improving the secondary but that was largely shored up with FA. We need help at basically every front 7 position (less ILB for DJ).

Does McPh|_|ckStick think that he has what needs at DL? If there was not the player that they wanted at a position, I would have rather seen them trade down.

It is clear he is trying to win now and it doesnt look promising to me

barryr
04-25-2009, 09:38 PM
Somebody want to explain to me how we're going to move Tony Scheffler when there are still 5 or 6 TE's that are of the same mold? We won't get a 3rd for him this year and we may not be able to get a 3rd for him next year.

The one thing that is still really bothering me is the pass rush and NT. I think Thomas, Powell, and Peterson can hold down the ends when we show the 3-4 front. But, if the plan is to eventually go to that front on a consistent basis... we need the players now! The 3rd round could have been ideal for some help along the DLine. Maybe a guy will slide in the 4th and 5th rounds... but I doubt we'd even look that way anyhow!

Like for the 100th time, the pass rush in a 3-4 generally comes from your OLB's, not DL. The Steelers have a great pass rusher on their DL? No. The Broncos with Shanahan took for need when it came for defense and passed up on talent and we saw where that got them. Moss and Crowder couldn't even get on the field on a crappy defense no less.

Elway777
04-25-2009, 09:45 PM
Terrible draft and when Orakpo becomes the next Ware then I will be crying. The Broncos are switching to a 3-4 and only use one draft pick on defensive front 7. Trading away next years first also hurts are rebuilding that would of came from the Cutler trade. The Broncos could of traded our 48 pick plus a 3 rounder to move up for Smith if they wanted him that much. I cann't beleive I wanted McIdiot to be Head Coach.

Broncoman13
04-25-2009, 09:47 PM
Thanks for pointing that out... wasn't aware of that. I guess I was thinking for some reason that those guys along the DL had to actually open up the LBs to make plays. I guess we should expect all pressure to come from the back 8 as well.

lostknight
04-25-2009, 09:47 PM
I like Moreno for value. I love Ayers. But the Richard Quinn pick is just as a disaster from tom to bottom.

lostknight
04-25-2009, 09:48 PM
Honestly, unless Ron Fields can handle the NT duties, I think we spend a lot more time in 4-3 then 3-4.

Orange_Beard
04-25-2009, 09:54 PM
You are wearing your Orange Colored glasses tonight.

bpc
04-25-2009, 09:55 PM
we got a TE who most likely will be available in the 5th.. not wise imo..

have you seen him run? I've seen cement move faster.

Hell, Ayers almost has more career sacks than this guy has receptions... and that isn't saying very much.

BJ.

Unfortunately die-hard Denver fans deserve much better than what they've got over the past four months and will undoubtably be receiving in the future.

I don't think this team is much better from this draft. Still a 4-12 team IMO. Only now, we won't get a top notch player in what looks to be a pretty strong draft class.

Shame on Pat Bowlen. He sold the fans of the Broncos on what he needed to be competitive in the NFL, hence a new stadium, and then let the fans of Denver and Colorado foot the bill for it. Now we're hearing all these leaks about being in bad financial shape...

SELL BOWLEN. SELL NOW. You aren't making good decisions, future decisions are being made by your cash shortfall and who is going to be suffering? The fans of the Broncos.

We're entering the dark times.

Rohirrim
04-25-2009, 09:55 PM
The first thing this team needed to do (and desperately at that) was stop the run. Not one of these picks helps to do that. So, fail. Moreno is my favorite RB in this draft. Won't do us much good. For every run he can put up, the opposing O will match it. I like Ayers. I don't see where he will bring a whole lot that Dumervil doesn't already bring so, it's a wash. Smith? Secondary was the least weakest unit on defense. We traded a first from next year, which will be a much stronger draft, to get somebody to help our least weakest point on D. Fail. McBath might actually help in the run D, but he won't be stepping up much for a season or two with Hawkins here so, wash. Trading both thirds for a borderline TE/Guard (who would have still been on the board with one of those thirds) when we already have Graham and Sheffler? Uber fail.

The Broncos had the 29th rated defense last season and a horrible collapse the last three games. They flat could not stop the run. None of these picks change that scenario. Unless the Broncos can find some kind of magic in the fourth through seventh rounds tomorrow, they enter the season with basically the same D they left last season with, except possibly reconfigured into a different form. Maybe.

I call the outlook: Grim.

Jekyll15Hyde
04-25-2009, 09:55 PM
The thing that might end up hurting the most is giving up our top 10 pick next year. Just maybe I would have bought into it a little if we had used it on the front 7.

goldengopher1976
04-25-2009, 10:56 PM
The Broncos started the day with the #12, #18 and #48 picks on Day One -- but ended up picking five players in hopes to bolster their offense, defense and special teams in 2009. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding some of the selections, so I have decided to go ahead and give my thoughts on the matter.

Knowshon Moreno, #12 - Absolutely fantastic pick. I didn't want Orakpo. I also didn't want to see the Broncos panic and reach for another player. I know a lot of people think that this is a wasted pick or a luxury pick, but I agree with McDaniels' statement that "When a back like him is available, you take him." Moreno is a superb runner and can catch the ball well. He should be a front contender for OROY honors. I think it is a great selection value wise and I do believe it fit a need. Moreno isn't a rental or a scrub. He is a long-term option for this team and can be a face to our offensive franchise.

Robert Ayers, #18 - Ayers is an extremely interesting prospect, but a quality one. He's a versatile player who will be able to play with his hand up or down. He has drawn some minor comparisons to Adalius Thomas and ultimately I think that is how he will be used. I certainly hope he isn't a one year wonder and do honestly believe his best football is in front of him. I feel much more comfortable with him at #18 than I would have at #12 or someone like Orakpo at #12.

Alphonso Smith, #37 - I absolutely love this pick. I do not mind giving up a future first-rounder because you just "never know" with the value and it is going to save us money in the long-term. He is an absolute ball-hawk and is solid in run support. He's smart and a team leader as well. For 5'9 -- he is extremely stout; had he been 5'11 or 6'0 -- he is easily a first-rounder. It sounds like McDaniels and the Broncos had an extremely high grade on him, first-round value. He can play special teams too as a gunner or returner. That's value. He can also start, but will more than likely be a nickel corner to begin with. Considering Goodman and Bailey's age, along with the lack of depth behind them (Paymah left, Williams still young and unproven) -- it's understandable that the Broncos went in a direction that can pay off immediately and long term.

Darcel McBath, #48 - This is another selection I'm excited about. He profiles as a free safety in the NFL. He has superior ball skills and plays with good instincts. He is also athletic. Yes, people can grade this pick down because of William Moore and others being available -- but does it not fill a need? How much can we expect out of Dawkins and the others in the long-term? McBath also plays special teams. He has the opportunity to learn from one of the best safeties that ever played and can get tips from defensive backs like Champ Bailey as well. I do not fault the Broncos for getting such a player.

Richard Quinn, #64 - At first this pick was not something that settled well with me given the other players on board, especially tight end -- but it does make sense. The tight ends in McDaniels' system primarily serve in a blocking role. Yes we have Graham, but we know that isn't Scheffler's forte. Who is to say Scheffler isn't going to be moved still? Would he even re-sign here in Denver after next season anyways? We didn't have a third tight end on the roster either. Yes, I would have prefered someone else, but Quinn is a great blocking tight end and has decent hands. According to McDaniels, he was excellent in the personal workout and can catch the ball well; but North Carolina didn't utilize him in that fashion.

Overall, I'd give the Broncos a solid B for Day One; with the only issue being the value given up -- and the Quinn selection having some ambiguity. All and all, I believe it was a solid first day. I know we all have our favorite prospects and stuff like that, but honestly -- how can you guys be that disappointed? Long-term RB we've been looking for. A solid option at OLB/DE (Joker) in our defense, along with two defensive backs who will make our secondary younger and a tight end who has the potential to replace Scheffler when he leaves. (He will.)

Not bad at all.

Thank you for bringing some much needed sanity. The whole "sky is falling" routine here is already old...I for one am excited about the direction we're taking.

DarkHorse30
04-25-2009, 11:44 PM
The first thing this team needed to do (and desperately at that) was stop the run. Not one of these picks helps to do that. So, fail.
The Broncos had the 29th rated defense last season and a horrible collapse the last three games. They flat could not stop the run. None of these picks change that scenario.

Denver hasn't been able to run the ball or stop the run for the last 2 years. I'd rather fix the running game first, because it seems more fixable than the runstop. I don't want to start drafting D-players willy nilly, because that was always Shanahan's fix to the problem. It seldom worked.
I don't think our defenders knew what they were doing for the last 2 years.....maybe, and this is a VERY optimistic view, our D needs coaching more than they need new personnel. On paper, our defense has players, but it won't get fixed in one year, no matter who we drafted. Bronco fans should be used to their offense bailing out their defense by now - it's been the MO for about 25 years.

That said, it's strange that denver was #2 at running the ball in 2005 (just 3 short years ago) and the runstop was also #2 that same year. What happened? Were the Browncos THAT good? or do we just miss Wilson THAT bad? Or was it just better for the offense to chug and churn and eat enough yards with a running game to keep the D fresh? It's interesting that our offense has been flashy for the last 2 years but not very productive.

Rohirrim
04-25-2009, 11:49 PM
Denver hasn't been able to run the ball or stop the run for the last 2 years. I'd rather fix the running game first, because it seems more fixable than the runstop. I don't want to start drafting D-players willy nilly, because that was always Shanahan's fix to the problem. It seldom worked.
I don't thing our defenders knew what they were doing for the last 2 years.....maybe, and this is a VERY optimistic view, our D needs coaching more than they need new personnel. On paper, our defense has players, but it won't get fixed in one year, no matter who we drafted. Bronco fans should be used to their offense bailing out their defense by now - it's been the MO for about 25 years.

That said, it's strange that denver was #2 at running the ball in 2005 (just 3 short years ago) and the runstop was also #2 that same year. What happened? Were the Browncos THAT good? or do we just miss Wilson THAT bad? Or was it just better for the offense to chug and churn and eat enough yards with a running game to keep the D fresh? It's interesting that our offense has been flashy for the last 2 years but not very productive.

Which explains why I wanted Rey or Cushing. I hope you're right about the coaching idea, because that's about all we've got at this point.

Vegas_Bronco
04-25-2009, 11:49 PM
Great analysis REQ

...very optomistic, but well done.

anon
04-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Good take. I agree. The only problem I have is that we probably overspent and I was initially not so pleased, but thinking it through and reading a bit more about each player and I am optimistic if not totally thrilled with the draft so far.

enjolras
04-25-2009, 11:55 PM
I'm ok, overall, with the picks. Both defensive back field picks should improve the defenses ability to generate turnovers. Ayers is a nice pick-up at DE (particularly if McD is right about his ability to bulk up). A strong running game will take pressure off of the defense.

The whole day was clearly focused on defense (even the Moreno pick), and as such I think it was a very productive day. I always love how folks here are absolutely positive some player could have been gotten later...

I think a lot of these moves where made in anticipation of the uncapped year next year which is going to drive rookie salaries to insane heights. Having picks next year may not be a good thing.

enjolras
04-25-2009, 11:58 PM
Moreno is a superb runner and can catch the ball well. He should be a front contender for OROY honors. I think it is a great selection value wise and I do believe it fit a need. Moreno isn't a rental or a scrub. He is a long-term option for this team and can be a face to our offensive franchise.

The only issue I have is that you can hardly depend on a running back to be available week to week, much less in the long term. They are always one play from a career ender (more so than any other position).. spending first round value on a running back always gives me pause.

Kaylore
04-26-2009, 12:00 AM
I agree with you Req. I like all the players from a strictly football perspective. Quinn will be better than people think and Smith can ball. However you can't deny that giving up a first rounder for a second rounder in a crappy class doesn't make sense. I don't care how much you like them. You have to do something else.

I do like them sticking to their board. Need-schmeed. If they didn't like the positions that people felt we needed at each spot and went with the better player, they did the team more good long term.

watermock
04-26-2009, 12:01 AM
Rookie salaries are going to be hit.

It's a done deal.

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:02 AM
You "love" all the picks ... and Quinn "makes sense."

Really?

Only if you do some homework.

Otherwise, no.

WABronco
04-26-2009, 12:13 AM
REQ U FUGGING R-TARD OMGZORS!!11!

You think you really know better? YOU KNOW BETTER THAN US! GET OUTTA HERE OMGZORS!1!

WABronco
04-26-2009, 12:15 AM
I agree with you Req. I like all the players from a strictly football perspective. Quinn will be better than people think and Smith can ball. However you can't deny that giving up a first rounder for a second rounder in a crappy class doesn't make sense. I don't care how much you like them. You have to do something else.

I do like them sticking to their board. Need-schmeed. If they didn't like the positions that people felt we needed at each spot and went with the better player, they did the team more good long term.

HE BETTER BE HE ONLY HAD 12 RECEPTIONS OMGZORS FIRE MCRTARD PLX!11!

I find the amount of McDaniel's support in this thread nauseating!

/sarcasm

Taco John
04-26-2009, 03:09 AM
Quinn will be better than people think...


Quinn could be the next Tony Gonzalez, and it still won't change the fact that we still don't have a NT. I think we did some things right in this draft - namely the first two rounds. But I can't understand why we'd give up so much value and not come away with a NT on the first day to show for it.

BroncoMan4ever
04-26-2009, 03:30 AM
Quinn could be the next Tony Gonzalez, and it still won't change the fact that we still don't have a NT. I think we did some things right in this draft - namely the first two rounds. But I can't understand why we'd give up so much value and not come away with a NT on the first day to show for it.

we are going after Taylor or Hill today.


my only query into day 1 is McBath. i like him but find it odd that we took him when William Moore was still on the board.

Drek
04-26-2009, 03:31 AM
Quinn could be the next Tony Gonzalez, and it still won't change the fact that we still don't have a NT. I think we did some things right in this draft - namely the first two rounds. But I can't understand why we'd give up so much value and not come away with a NT on the first day to show for it.

Who in this draft would've changed that?

Everyone here likes to b**** about how we needed more DLs, well ****ing name 'em.

Raji? He's Haloti Ngata with less of a mean streak, less technique and fundamental skill, and more character questions. That the guy you would've wanted to trade up for? There's a better chance he's the next Jimmy Kennedy than the next Vince Wilfork, by a long shot. Oh, and a team picking three spots ahead of us wanted him, so we'd have been overpaying to move up.

Brace? I've heard more than a few commentators state that if this was any other DL draft class he'd be a 3rd rounder at best. He's one dimensional and raw. He's not going to pay off for anyone in '09 and thats why the Pats took him, they can afford to sit and develop him for a season. We can't.

After that who?

Dorrell Scott? Still on the board.

Jarron Gilbert? See above.

Travis Taylor? We'll have the chance to draft him if we want a hell of a lot later.

Sammie Lee Hill? Same as Taylor.

If there were so many great DLs that we were passing on how come other teams weren't taking them?

There were seven DLs (not DE/OLB tweeners) taken in the first two rounds. Only four went to 3-4 teams, two of them before we got on the clock the very first time.

Its a horrible DL class. It sucks that its the year we had a lot of draft firepower, but it is what it is. Instead of over picking a bunch of 3rd round DL talent like a lot of GMs would've we should be happy that the FO recognized this talent deficiency in the draft pool and instead targeted guys they thought could contribute right away at other need positions.

eddie mac
04-26-2009, 03:37 AM
we got a TE who most likely will be available in the 5th.. not wise imo..

He was rated a lot higher than the 5th rd.

He'd moved into the top 75 of 2 boards that mattered within the last week and was a 3A pick on PFW's around the NFL info draft board.

His receiving skills shown at his pro-day turned a lot of coaches heads.

watermock
04-26-2009, 03:39 AM
Excuses.

Jesus Christ.

We have 10 picks and half of teams run 3/4 and your telling me there were no picks?

I didn't want the 3/4 anyway, we didn't have the personel.

Broncos_OTM
04-26-2009, 07:00 AM
William Moore is one of my favorite prospects. But he doesnt fit what we are doing. He plays very undisciplined. people have questioned his instincts.and the injury bug kinda hurt him.

Mcbath from everything i have read is the most complete safety i dont know about that but i think he is better scheme wise with what we are running then Moore.

Alphonso smith is a good pick but man we got MURDERED on value a first rounder. if it wasnt for the first rounder i would have been really cool with this draft and given it high marks but as it stands i really think we screwed ourselves.

I like the players i hate the value.

cmhargrove
04-26-2009, 07:15 AM
Who in this draft would've changed that?

Everyone here likes to b**** about how we needed more DLs, well ****ing name 'em.

Raji? He's Haloti Ngata with less of a mean streak, less technique and fundamental skill, and more character questions. That the guy you would've wanted to trade up for? There's a better chance he's the next Jimmy Kennedy than the next Vince Wilfork, by a long shot. Oh, and a team picking three spots ahead of us wanted him, so we'd have been overpaying to move up.

Brace? I've heard more than a few commentators state that if this was any other DL draft class he'd be a 3rd rounder at best. He's one dimensional and raw. He's not going to pay off for anyone in '09 and thats why the Pats took him, they can afford to sit and develop him for a season. We can't.

After that who?

Dorrell Scott? Still on the board.

Jarron Gilbert? See above.

Travis Taylor? We'll have the chance to draft him if we want a hell of a lot later.

Sammie Lee Hill? Same as Taylor.

If there were so many great DLs that we were passing on how come other teams weren't taking them?

There were seven DLs (not DE/OLB tweeners) taken in the first two rounds. Only four went to 3-4 teams, two of them before we got on the clock the very first time.

Its a horrible DL class. It sucks that its the year we had a lot of draft firepower, but it is what it is. Instead of over picking a bunch of 3rd round DL talent like a lot of GMs would've we should be happy that the FO recognized this talent deficiency in the draft pool and instead targeted guys they thought could contribute right away at other need positions.

Good points, after Brace, there weren't any true NT options taken - they are still on the board. If we can pick one or two up in rounds 4-7, this could all play out nicely.

gyldenlove
04-26-2009, 08:03 AM
Knowshon Moreno.

What I like: He is my top rated RB in this draft, he can do every thing, run inside, outside, catch, split wide. He has attitude, he fights hard, he has been productive at the highest level.

What I don't like: There is no aspect of our offense that is as bad as any aspect of our defense. Realisticly I think in the long run upgrading the D would make more of a difference. RBs often do not last that long, so by the time Moreno is exiting his prime we may just have found our defense.

Robert Ayers.

What I like: He is very diverse and can play DE in 4-3 as well as in 3-4. I believe when all is said and done Ayers will move to 5-tech. He has been compared to Adalius Thomas, but that ignores the fact that he lacks quickness, Ayers is much slower over short distances than Thomas and the other top OLB prospects. However he has experience playing inside and I think that is where he will end up.

What I don't like: Nothing really.


Alphonso Smith.

What I like: Good cover corner with the best ball skills of any DB in the draft, is excellent in zone. Smith will provide depth at CB and will probably end up competing with JMFW for the nickel position either this year or next, they are both shorter guys who fit the nickel very well. The pick we traded could be conditional, no details have been released and there is still a chance that we traded the lower of our 2 picks next year.

What I don't like: The 2010 draft is stronger by some considerable margin than the 2009 draft. With the way we have failed to improve the defensive front and by proxy the run defense, it should come as no surprise if we end up drafting in the top 16 again next year, and if we have to give up that, we got taken big time. Smith will never be a starter in this league, he is too short and too slow and even though he likes to get physical, he gives up half a foot and 15 pounds on a lot of starting wideouts meaning that in a jam situation he will get ragdolled. We could have had Darius Butler or Ron Brace, Brace may never be a star, but Butler will have a better career than Smith.


Darcel Mcbath.

What I like: Centerfielder with excellent range, good ball skills and speed. He was rising towards the end of the predraft scouting and may not have lasted as long as some expect on the board.

What I don't like: We could have had Sean Smith or Rashard Johnson whom I think are both more diverse and better in coverage. Mcbath is a player I am SURE we could have drafted in the 3rd round as evidenced by the fact that there are still some very good safeties left.


Richard Quinn.

What I like: Superior blocker who never had much chance at getting involved in the passing game, however he showed really solid hands at the combine as a reciever and may actually be one of the premier complete tight ends in the draft.

What I don't like: The 3rd round is essentially the second best round in terms of draft prep since you have all night to set a board for your picks like you do in the 1st round. We don't get that opportunity now, and have to play react drafting the rest of the day unless we give up more draft picks. I think Quinn would have been available to us with our normal draft pick in the 3rd, this pick really has that peestained smell of panic. I am not so sure that TE is really that high on the list of players we needed when we could have Jarron Gilbert or Lawrence Sidbury.


Overall this draft seems like Xanders and Mcdaniels failed to stay cool and wait it out, they saw players they liked and paniced and gave up more than they should have to get those players who at least had some probability of falling. By mortgaging a pick in a very strong 1st round in 2010 to get a nickel CB they have limited our ability to correct what weaknesses the team has this year and in the worst case scenario have given up a really good pick in a strong draft that could have landed us a top DL, LB or QB.

Since giving out player ratings is completely arbitrary at this point, I won't do it, but this day 1 does seem to confirm that Xanders and Mcdaniels just aren't ready and experienced enough to run a franchise through these hectic activities, they got creamed during the opening of free agency and so far they have gotten taken during the draft.

The recap of the Jay Cutler trade:

Cutler and a top 5th rounder for Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith, Richard Quinn and Kyle Orton. Was Cutler really only worth a nickel CB, a blocking TE, Orton and a DE with no real position on our team yet?

mattob14
04-26-2009, 10:25 AM
The Broncos started the day with the #12, #18 and #48 picks on Day One -- but ended up picking five players in hopes to bolster their offense, defense and special teams in 2009. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding some of the selections, so I have decided to go ahead and give my thoughts on the matter.

Knowshon Moreno, #12 - Absolutely fantastic pick. I didn't want Orakpo. I also didn't want to see the Broncos panic and reach for another player. I know a lot of people think that this is a wasted pick or a luxury pick, but I agree with McDaniels' statement that "When a back like him is available, you take him." Moreno is a superb runner and can catch the ball well. He should be a front contender for OROY honors. I think it is a great selection value wise and I do believe it fit a need. Moreno isn't a rental or a scrub. He is a long-term option for this team and can be a face to our offensive franchise.

Robert Ayers, #18 - Ayers is an extremely interesting prospect, but a quality one. He's a versatile player who will be able to play with his hand up or down. He has drawn some minor comparisons to Adalius Thomas and ultimately I think that is how he will be used. I certainly hope he isn't a one year wonder and do honestly believe his best football is in front of him. I feel much more comfortable with him at #18 than I would have at #12 or someone like Orakpo at #12.

Alphonso Smith, #37 - I absolutely love this pick. I do not mind giving up a future first-rounder because you just "never know" with the value and it is going to save us money in the long-term. He is an absolute ball-hawk and is solid in run support. He's smart and a team leader as well. For 5'9 -- he is extremely stout; had he been 5'11 or 6'0 -- he is easily a first-rounder. It sounds like McDaniels and the Broncos had an extremely high grade on him, first-round value. He can play special teams too as a gunner or returner. That's value. He can also start, but will more than likely be a nickel corner to begin with. Considering Goodman and Bailey's age, along with the lack of depth behind them (Paymah left, Williams still young and unproven) -- it's understandable that the Broncos went in a direction that can pay off immediately and long term.

Darcel McBath, #48 - This is another selection I'm excited about. He profiles as a free safety in the NFL. He has superior ball skills and plays with good instincts. He is also athletic. Yes, people can grade this pick down because of William Moore and others being available -- but does it not fill a need? How much can we expect out of Dawkins and the others in the long-term? McBath also plays special teams. He has the opportunity to learn from one of the best safeties that ever played and can get tips from defensive backs like Champ Bailey as well. I do not fault the Broncos for getting such a player.

Richard Quinn, #64 - At first this pick was not something that settled well with me given the other players on board, especially tight end -- but it does make sense. The tight ends in McDaniels' system primarily serve in a blocking role. Yes we have Graham, but we know that isn't Scheffler's forte. Who is to say Scheffler isn't going to be moved still? Would he even re-sign here in Denver after next season anyways? We didn't have a third tight end on the roster either. Yes, I would have prefered someone else, but Quinn is a great blocking tight end and has decent hands. According to McDaniels, he was excellent in the personal workout and can catch the ball well; but North Carolina didn't utilize him in that fashion.

Overall, I'd give the Broncos a solid B for Day One; with the only issue being the value given up -- and the Quinn selection having some ambiguity. All and all, I believe it was a solid first day. I know we all have our favorite prospects and stuff like that, but honestly -- how can you guys be that disappointed? Long-term RB we've been looking for. A solid option at OLB/DE (Joker) in our defense, along with two defensive backs who will make our secondary younger and a tight end who has the potential to replace Scheffler when he leaves. (He will.)

Not bad at all.

I agree with almost all of this Req. My one caveat is the 1st round pick next year. IF this is our pick (unconditionally) then I think we overpaid for Smith. If it's the lower of our two picks, or has conditions attached, then I'm fine with the move. As for the trade for Quinn, the Browns are on the clock at pick #104 and the ONLY players who have been draft from #79 to this point that I'd have any interest in are Brandon Tate (who I don't think we would've been interested in anyway), Stephen McGee, and Dorrell Scott. If we draft a couple of guys like Taylor, Brinkley, or Zach Potter in the 4th (which is looking realistic at this point), I really think we're getting the same quality of talent in round 4 that we would've picked up with the 2 3rds anyway.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 10:31 AM
The Broncos started the day with the #12, #18 and #48 picks on Day One -- but ended up picking five players in hopes to bolster their offense, defense and special teams in 2009. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding some of the selections, so I have decided to go ahead and give my thoughts on the matter.

Knowshon Moreno, #12 - Absolutely fantastic pick. I didn't want Orakpo. I also didn't want to see the Broncos panic and reach for another player. I know a lot of people think that this is a wasted pick or a luxury pick, but I agree with McDaniels' statement that "When a back like him is available, you take him." Moreno is a superb runner and can catch the ball well. He should be a front contender for OROY honors. I think it is a great selection value wise and I do believe it fit a need. Moreno isn't a rental or a scrub. He is a long-term option for this team and can be a face to our offensive franchise.

Robert Ayers, #18 - Ayers is an extremely interesting prospect, but a quality one. He's a versatile player who will be able to play with his hand up or down. He has drawn some minor comparisons to Adalius Thomas and ultimately I think that is how he will be used. I certainly hope he isn't a one year wonder and do honestly believe his best football is in front of him. I feel much more comfortable with him at #18 than I would have at #12 or someone like Orakpo at #12.

Alphonso Smith, #37 - I absolutely love this pick. I do not mind giving up a future first-rounder because you just "never know" with the value and it is going to save us money in the long-term. He is an absolute ball-hawk and is solid in run support. He's smart and a team leader as well. For 5'9 -- he is extremely stout; had he been 5'11 or 6'0 -- he is easily a first-rounder. It sounds like McDaniels and the Broncos had an extremely high grade on him, first-round value. He can play special teams too as a gunner or returner. That's value. He can also start, but will more than likely be a nickel corner to begin with. Considering Goodman and Bailey's age, along with the lack of depth behind them (Paymah left, Williams still young and unproven) -- it's understandable that the Broncos went in a direction that can pay off immediately and long term.

Darcel McBath, #48 - This is another selection I'm excited about. He profiles as a free safety in the NFL. He has superior ball skills and plays with good instincts. He is also athletic. Yes, people can grade this pick down because of William Moore and others being available -- but does it not fill a need? How much can we expect out of Dawkins and the others in the long-term? McBath also plays special teams. He has the opportunity to learn from one of the best safeties that ever played and can get tips from defensive backs like Champ Bailey as well. I do not fault the Broncos for getting such a player.

Richard Quinn, #64 - At first this pick was not something that settled well with me given the other players on board, especially tight end -- but it does make sense. The tight ends in McDaniels' system primarily serve in a blocking role. Yes we have Graham, but we know that isn't Scheffler's forte. Who is to say Scheffler isn't going to be moved still? Would he even re-sign here in Denver after next season anyways? We didn't have a third tight end on the roster either. Yes, I would have prefered someone else, but Quinn is a great blocking tight end and has decent hands. According to McDaniels, he was excellent in the personal workout and can catch the ball well; but North Carolina didn't utilize him in that fashion.

Overall, I'd give the Broncos a solid B for Day One; with the only issue being the value given up -- and the Quinn selection having some ambiguity. All and all, I believe it was a solid first day. I know we all have our favorite prospects and stuff like that, but honestly -- how can you guys be that disappointed? Long-term RB we've been looking for. A solid option at OLB/DE (Joker) in our defense, along with two defensive backs who will make our secondary younger and a tight end who has the potential to replace Scheffler when he leaves. (He will.)

Not bad at all.

On board with your take 100% Requiem!

Taco John
04-26-2009, 10:33 AM
Who in this draft would've changed that?

Everyone here likes to b**** about how we needed more DLs, well ****ing name 'em..


Ron Brace.

Dagmar
04-26-2009, 10:33 AM
You "love" all the picks ... and Quinn "makes sense."

Really?

Is your belly getting in the way of your eyes?

YES. That is what he said. Not all Bronocs fans turned into self haters when Shanny left.

peacepipe
04-26-2009, 10:34 AM
The first thing this team needed to do (and desperately at that) was stop the run. Not one of these picks helps to do that. So, fail. Moreno is my favorite RB in this draft. Won't do us much good. For every run he can put up, the opposing O will match it. I like Ayers. I don't see where he will bring a whole lot that Dumervil doesn't already bring so, it's a wash. Smith? Secondary was the least weakest unit on defense. We traded a first from next year, which will be a much stronger draft, to get somebody to help our least weakest point on D. Fail. McBath might actually help in the run D, but he won't be stepping up much for a season or two with Hawkins here so, wash. Trading both thirds for a borderline TE/Guard (who would have still been on the board with one of those thirds) when we already have Graham and Sheffler? Uber fail.

The Broncos had the 29th rated defense last season and a horrible collapse the last three games. They flat could not stop the run. None of these picks change that scenario. Unless the Broncos can find some kind of magic in the fourth through seventh rounds tomorrow, they enter the season with basically the same D they left last season with, except possibly reconfigured into a different form. Maybe.

I call the outlook: Grim. Dumervil can't play both sides at the same time. It'll probably be Dumervil on one side with Ayers on the other side.

footstepsfrom#27
04-26-2009, 10:50 AM
The Broncos started the day with the #12, #18 and #48 picks on Day One -- but ended up picking five players in hopes to bolster their offense, defense and special teams in 2009. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding some of the selections, so I have decided to go ahead and give my thoughts on the matter.

Knowshon Moreno, #12 - Absolutely fantastic pick. I didn't want Orakpo. I also didn't want to see the Broncos panic and reach for another player. I know a lot of people think that this is a wasted pick or a luxury pick, but I agree with McDaniels' statement that "When a back like him is available, you take him." Moreno is a superb runner and can catch the ball well. He should be a front contender for OROY honors. I think it is a great selection value wise and I do believe it fit a need. Moreno isn't a rental or a scrub. He is a long-term option for this team and can be a face to our offensive franchise.

Robert Ayers, #18 - Ayers is an extremely interesting prospect, but a quality one. He's a versatile player who will be able to play with his hand up or down. He has drawn some minor comparisons to Adalius Thomas and ultimately I think that is how he will be used. I certainly hope he isn't a one year wonder and do honestly believe his best football is in front of him. I feel much more comfortable with him at #18 than I would have at #12 or someone like Orakpo at #12.

Alphonso Smith, #37 - I absolutely love this pick. I do not mind giving up a future first-rounder because you just "never know" with the value and it is going to save us money in the long-term. He is an absolute ball-hawk and is solid in run support. He's smart and a team leader as well. For 5'9 -- he is extremely stout; had he been 5'11 or 6'0 -- he is easily a first-rounder. It sounds like McDaniels and the Broncos had an extremely high grade on him, first-round value. He can play special teams too as a gunner or returner. That's value. He can also start, but will more than likely be a nickel corner to begin with. Considering Goodman and Bailey's age, along with the lack of depth behind them (Paymah left, Williams still young and unproven) -- it's understandable that the Broncos went in a direction that can pay off immediately and long term.

Darcel McBath, #48 - This is another selection I'm excited about. He profiles as a free safety in the NFL. He has superior ball skills and plays with good instincts. He is also athletic. Yes, people can grade this pick down because of William Moore and others being available -- but does it not fill a need? How much can we expect out of Dawkins and the others in the long-term? McBath also plays special teams. He has the opportunity to learn from one of the best safeties that ever played and can get tips from defensive backs like Champ Bailey as well. I do not fault the Broncos for getting such a player.

Richard Quinn, #64 - At first this pick was not something that settled well with me given the other players on board, especially tight end -- but it does make sense. The tight ends in McDaniels' system primarily serve in a blocking role. Yes we have Graham, but we know that isn't Scheffler's forte. Who is to say Scheffler isn't going to be moved still? Would he even re-sign here in Denver after next season anyways? We didn't have a third tight end on the roster either. Yes, I would have prefered someone else, but Quinn is a great blocking tight end and has decent hands. According to McDaniels, he was excellent in the personal workout and can catch the ball well; but North Carolina didn't utilize him in that fashion.

Overall, I'd give the Broncos a solid B for Day One; with the only issue being the value given up -- and the Quinn selection having some ambiguity. All and all, I believe it was a solid first day. I know we all have our favorite prospects and stuff like that, but honestly -- how can you guys be that disappointed? Long-term RB we've been looking for. A solid option at OLB/DE (Joker) in our defense, along with two defensive backs who will make our secondary younger and a tight end who has the potential to replace Scheffler when he leaves. (He will.)

Not bad at all.
:homer: :homer: :homer:

BroncoInferno
04-26-2009, 10:59 AM
Quinn could be the next Tony Gonzalez, and it still won't change the fact that we still don't have a NT. I think we did some things right in this draft - namely the first two rounds. But I can't understand why we'd give up so much value and not come away with a NT on the first day to show for it.

This was a poor draft for NTs, Taco. I agree we need one, but after Raji there was a huge drop off. I thought we might go Brace in the 2nd, but in most drafts he's a 3rd of 4th round guy. You don't draft a guy just for the sake of it. They obviously did not put much value in the NTs available beyond Raji. I am glad they went with the board rather than picking a NT they were not crazy about just out of need.

Odysseus
04-26-2009, 11:12 AM
This draft is not impressive. I am looking forward to spring training reports.