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Popps
04-25-2009, 07:43 PM
Overview
Blocking tight ends rarely get the media attention that they deserve, but with quality pass protection and drive blocking at a premium in the National Football League, Quinn's prowess in the trenches has not gone unnoticed by the scouts that have spent quite a bit of time reviewing his game film. With so many NFL tight ends basically pass catchers, a player that performs like an offensive lineman at that position could have a long career ahead of him.

"Big Rich," as his teammates call him, grew up hoping to one day be another Jerry Rice. Mom's home cooking and dad's gene pool quickly eliminated that thought by the time he got to Maple Heights High School, where he grew into becoming the 15th-ranked tight end in the country, according to Rivals.com.

Quinn was also a member of Super Prep's All-Midwest Team. The two-time All-Conference and All-District selection led his team to a 10-2 record and a berth in the playoffs as a senior. Named the team offensive MVP, he recorded 32 catches for 468 yards and 10 touchdowns that year, adding 12 receptions for 254 yards and one touchdown as a junior.

With his size and frame, the Maple Heights High basketball coach recruited him for his team in 2004. In his only season on the hardwood court, he led the conference in rebounds. Prior to enrolling at Maple Heights as a junior, he played two seasons of football at Butler High School, located in Huntsville, Alabama.

Quinn enrolled at the University of North Carolina in January, 2005. He took part in spring drills, going on to play in nine games that season. He saw the bulk of his playing time on special teams, recording one solo tackle vs. Maryland. Scheduled to start in 2006, he suffered a right shoulder blade fracture a week before the season opener vs. Rutgers. Expected to miss three months, the coaching staff decided to grant him a medical hardship.

With Butch Davis having taken over as the Tar Heels' head coach, the offense changed dramatically in 2007. Davis used a lot of multiple receiver formations, relegating the tight ends to mostly blocking chores. Quinn started seven of 12 games, as he caught just four passes for 27 yards (6.8 avg) and a touchdown. He continued to excel on special teams, even returning three short kickoffs for 39 yards. He also displayed solid blocking skills, grading 84.7 percent for blocking consistency.

As a junior, Quinn was named All-American honorable mention by Scout.com. He started all but the Virginia Tech game at tight end, as he collected eight passes for 97 yards (12.1 avg) and one touchdown. He led the team with an 85.5 percent grade for blocking consistency and produced 11 touchdown-resulting blocks in the process.

Scouting Report
GENERAL REPORT: GRADE: 6.40

Body Structure: Quinn has a well-built frame with a proportionately athletic body. He has room on his frame to carry at least another 15 pounds of bulk and displays good upper and lower body muscle definition. He has large hands, long wingspan and good thigh and calf thickness.

Athletic Ability: Quinn is a good athlete with fluid motions and above average balance. He may lack the foot speed to gain acceleration or generate a sudden burst, but does show adequate movement skills upfield. He has a good vertical jump and does a nice job of timing his leaps and extending for the high passes. He runs with a smooth stride and shows adequate change of direction agility when blocking for the ground game into the second level, but lacks the suddenness or quick feet to gain separation after the catch. GRADE: 6.6

Football Sense: Quinn is a good student who is quick to learn and retain plays. He has very good football instincts, showing urgency getting into his routes and stalking linebackers to block when working in space. He learns and retains plays well and will not have problems dealing with the mental aspect of the game. GRADE: 6.5

Character: Quinn is a mature athlete who comes from a supportive family and shows very good responsibility. He is a good student who is compliant and says the right things. He is well-respected by his teammates and coaches, honoring with being one of the team captains for the 2008 season. GRADE: 6.3

Competitiveness: Quinn is very tough and aggressive as a blocker. He shows a determined attitude to compete and generates good strength to combat the defenders in the trenches. He's the type of guy that will stick his nose in the pile and one that will not hesitate to get very physical with his opponent. GRADE: 6.4

Work Habits: Quinn is one of the team's hardest workers. He is not the type that needs stroking by the coaching staff in order to perform and has no problems with hard coaching. He responds well to criticism and will do whatever it takes to improve his play. He worked hard to rehabilitate from his 2006 fractured shoulder blade and is the type that will play until the whistle. GRADE: 6.2

ATHLETIC REPORT: GRADE: 6.12

Release: Quinn releases cleanly off the line, using his size and reach to keep defenders at bay. He is very active with his hands and has the power to run through the jam. He has good eyes reading the zone and does a nice job of sitting down in the soft spots. He shows only adequate foot speed in his route. While he does not have a sudden burst on his release, he runs with a normal stride once he gets into his patterns. GRADE: 6.5

Acceleration: Quinn comes off the ball aggressively and consistently gains advantage by using his size to power through. He is an effective inside and short-area receiver, as he shows good timing and ability to catch the ball in traffic. However, he is not a deep threat due to a lack of speed. GRADE: 5.8

Quickness: Quinn shows short-area quickness and once he gets into his routes he runs with a normal stride, but lacks explosion. He compensates by using his strength and hands to push off the defenders at the line of scrimmage. He is best when used on control and inside patterns, as he has above average lateral agility to quickly gain position. GRADE: 5.6

Route Running: Quinn does not run crisp patterns in the short area, using his power to combat defenders when going across the line of scrimmage. He is effective settling in the zone, using his size to shield the ball from the defender, but his timed speed is adequate at best. He shows good body control adjusting to the ball in flight, but had limited opportunities at UNC to display his soft, natural hands. GRADE: 5.3

Separation Ability: Quinn will struggle to separate upfield, but is effective going across the field and operating in the hook/curl zones. He needs to be crisper coming out of his breaks, as he rounds his cuts often (does not make square cuts). GRADE: 5.2

Ball Concentration: Quinn is a very tough player over the middle of the field. He squares his shoulders, secures the ball, stays low in his pads and drives hard with his legs to gain yardage after the catch. He maintains good focus on the ball and is alert to get back to help when the quarterback is flushed out of the pocket. Nothing will prevent this guy from getting to the passes thrown directly at him, but he needs to refine his footwork, as he will take too many soft angle cuts. GRADE: 6.4

Ball Adjustment: Quinn has not really had many opportunities to show if he can get downfield and adjust to the ball in flight, as he is used more on controlled routes, hooks and curls. He has at least adequate body control, but is not a quick-twitch type of athlete. He makes good body adjustments going for the ball, especially staying at a proper pad level to scoop up the low throws. He is a good jumper, showing proper reach and pluck agility. He will sacrifice his body and take the hit to get to the pass at its high point, relying more on his pinpoint timing that a pure leap. GRADE: 5.7

Leaping Ability: Quinn is a former basketball player with good timing and leaping ability. He has the wingspan and reach to get to the ball at the high point. He is a quick leaper who knows how to plant and jump to get better extension. GRADE: 6.5

Hands: Quinn has large, soft hands and does a nice job of looking the ball in. His punch and hand placement are very effective when blocking, doing a nice job of locking on and steering his man wide from the play. The offensive system that UNC uses relegates the tight end to mostly dump-off and safety valve duties as a receiver. He has large mitts for hands, settles in the zone nicely, does a good job of selling his short-area routes and will secure the ball before turning upfield. He can easily catch the low ball and you will never see him fumble. He can extend for the ball well, but has not had a chance to show if he can catch with his back to the quarterback. GRADE: 6.4

Run After the Catch: Because of so few receptions past the short area, he has not provided scouts with a chance to see him run with the ball. GRADE: N/A

Blocking Ability: Quinn is an aggressive in-line blocker with good initial quickness and hip snap on contact. He shows good overall technique with his hand placement and works to finish, consistently sustaining his blocks. For the running game, he gets to the second level well, doing a nice job of fitting in space. He will consistently position and wall off the defender, showing above average leg drive and hand punch to sustain when blocking in-line. He faces up with size and power when blocking downfield. Just look at the job he did blocking for the ground game vs. Georgia Tech in 2008. He will stalk, wall off and finish with lots of power behind his hand jolt. GRADE: 7.8

Compares To: JOHN OWENS, Seattle -- Quinn is the unquestioned best that this tight end draft crop has to offer as far as blocking ability goes. He has had limited opportunities as a pass catcher and has just adequate timed speed. He will never be the type that will stretch the field and his receiving skills might never develop, but having him on the field is akin to playing with six offensive linemen.

OVERALL GRADE: 6.17

--Report by Dave-Te' Thomas

Career Notes
Quinn started 19 of 34 games at North Carolina, catching 12 passes for 124 yards (10.3 avg) and two touchdowns Gained 37 yards on four kickoff returns (9.3 avg) and recorded two solo tackles Registered 139 knockdowns, 18 touchdown-resulting blocks and 18 downfield blocks, grading 85.08 percent for blocking consistency.

2008 Season
Super Sleeper Team selection by The NFL Draft Report All-American honorable mention by Scout.com Started all but the Virginia Tech game at tight end Gained 97 yards on eight receptions (12.1 avg), including one touchdown Recovered an onside kick for a 2-yard loss and made one solo tackle Graded 85.46 percent for blocking consistency, as he delivered 78 knockdowns, eleven touchdown-resulting blocks and ten blocks down field.

barryr
04-25-2009, 07:48 PM
I'm not crazy about the move, but I understand their thinking. If Graham goes down, they have little behind him who can block at TE and apparently they felt he wouldn't be there with their 3rd round pick. Funny I read that Quinn was recently in Pittsburgh working out for them and that's who they trade with to get him.

Popps
04-25-2009, 07:50 PM
Why, you ask... would McDaniels and company want another blocking tight end?

As I've said, these guys are going to set up their QB to succeed.... and they're going to set this team up to win playoff-style football games:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3206061&type=story

Patriots' offense shows it can grind out an AFC title

"For most of this season, everyone has paid attention to all the big plays we make, to how prolific the passing game has been, with Randy [Moss] and all the wide receivers, and justifiably so," tight end Kyle Brady said. "But when we have to grind it out, even though there haven't been a lot of those occasions, we've been able to do it. And being able to load up today, run the ball when we had to, take the game over on the ground ... it was pretty satisfying."

The Pats' tight end trio of Kyle Brady, Benjamin Watson and little-used Stephen Spach totaled one reception for eight yards on Sunday, but the group's importance went way beyond numbers. With the Pats aligned in a compressed formation, usually with only one wide receiver on the field, all three tight ends had key blocks. And in the second half, versatile running back Heath Evans, often lined up at fullback in an I formation, also made big contributions.

"Those guys, Heath and the tight ends, all made the little kinds of plays that only show up when you're watching the tape," Maroney said. "But they're winning plays, believe me, and they made it easier for me on a day when things were not coming all that easily for our offense."


As I've said, folks... this is what building a winning franchise looks like. It's not always sexy-time. Late 2nd round for an offensive puzzle-piece like this is a logical move.

Part of performing on defense is being able to control the ball on offense, and we're building a playoff-style football team. The scatter-shot draft approach is over.

Atlas
04-25-2009, 07:59 PM
Daniel Graham is the Best blocking TE in the NFL. So Denver full of holes on the defense spends two 3rd round picks to get a blocking TE that caught 8 receptions last year?? Oh yeah, I guess he was projected to go in the 5th round.

Amazing

So I guess the Cutler trade is in.

Denver gets Orton, Ayers, Smith and Quinn, The Bears get Cutler and a 5th rounder still to come.

snowspot66
04-25-2009, 07:59 PM
At least in this context it makes sense even if it seems the price was too high.

Seems to be attempting to build an offense than can dictate what will happen without the need for surprises and tricks.

Finger Roll
04-25-2009, 08:05 PM
Exactly. Blcoking TE is crucial part of the success the pats ran the last few years. I'm sure many fans on here were all pissed off when the broncos drafted Scheffler in round 2 in 2006.

barryr
04-25-2009, 08:10 PM
Daniel Graham is the Best blocking TE in the NFL. So Denver full of holes on the defense spends two 3rd round picks to get a blocking TE that caught 8 receptions last year?? Oh yeah, I guess he was projected to go in the 5th round.

Amazing

So I guess the Cutler trade is in.

Denver gets Orton, Ayers, Smith and Quinn, The Bears get Cutler and a 5th rounder still to come.

BS. Quinn's stock had risen and on more than one draft site, into the 3rd round and considered by some as the best blocking TE in this draft. So stop making up crap and just looking to bitch and moan. Go suck off Cutler somewhere.

UberBroncoMan
04-25-2009, 08:13 PM
This was a stupid pick regardless. We have Daniel freaking Graham.

This guy probably would have been there in 8 selections or whatever it was, when we had our first 3rd round pick.

Dos Rios
04-25-2009, 08:18 PM
... and with Chad Mustard just a phone call away.

Atlas
04-25-2009, 08:18 PM
BS. Quinn's stock had risen and on more than one draft site, into the 3rd round and considered by some as the best blocking TE in this draft. So stop making up crap and just looking to b**** and moan. Go suck off Cutler somewhere.

**** off bitch. I just stated the facts.

Orton, Ayers, Smith and Quinn for Cutler and a 5th. You like that. Fine

Why don't you go suck off McDaniels.

Finger Roll
04-25-2009, 08:19 PM
Daniel Graham is the Best blocking TE in the NFL. So Denver full of holes on the defense spends two 3rd round picks to get a blocking TE that caught 8 receptions last year?? Oh yeah, I guess he was projected to go in the 5th round.

Amazing

So I guess the Cutler trade is in.

Denver gets Orton, Ayers, Smith and Quinn, The Bears get Cutler and a 5th rounder still to come.

we still have the Bears first round pick next year

Atlas
04-25-2009, 08:19 PM
BS. Quinn's stock had risen and on more than one draft site, into the 3rd round and considered by some as the best blocking TE in this draft. So stop making up crap and just looking to b**** and moan. Go suck off Cutler somewhere.

**** off bitch. I just stated the facts.

Orton, Ayers, Smith and Quinn for Cutler and a 5th. You like that. Fine

Why don't you go suck off McDaniels.


PS Denver already has the best blocking TE in the NFL.

footstepsfrom#27
04-25-2009, 08:20 PM
Daniel Graham is the Best blocking TE in the NFL. So Denver full of holes on the defense spends two 3rd round picks to get a blocking TE that caught 8 receptions last year?? Oh yeah, I guess he was projected to go in the 5th round.

Amazing

So I guess the Cutler trade is in.

Denver gets Orton, Ayers, Smith and Quinn, The Bears get Cutler and a 5th rounder still to come.
After Cutlergate and the moronic move we made to dump our #1 next year for a 2nd round CB in a weak draft I figured the beat down was over so I left. SURPRISE! Another anal raping was still to come...

This has to be about money...Daniel Graham's money. Remember the Pats let him walk in FA...obviously McStupid is bent on getting as much of the previous team as possible out the door and Bowlen needs to dump salaries. I guess axing the office staff wasn't enough.

I can't wait to see what tomorrow holds. Maybe we can dump our other #1 for a 5th round tackle with a wooden leg.

Atlas
04-25-2009, 08:21 PM
we still have the Bears first round pick next year

No we traded that to get the midget CB.

watermock
04-25-2009, 08:28 PM
Do e have a 1st next year?

barryr
04-25-2009, 08:32 PM
**** off b****. I just stated the facts.

Orton, Ayers, Smith and Quinn for Cutler and a 5th. You like that. Fine

Why don't you go suck off McDaniels.


PS Denver already has the best blocking TE in the NFL.

Your facts are wrong. Graham is also over 30 and there's nobody behind him that can block, so if he goes down, then what? Oh, but happy we'd have some backup DL instead that rarely played.

Popps
04-25-2009, 09:21 PM
Again, this Quinn pick makes perfect sense if you look at what the Patriots have done. In fact, if you're watching any coverage of this thing today, most analysts are saying that these picks fall in line with a lot of past Patriots picks.

I'm not saying I'm not surprised by the way this plays out, but when you break it down... it makes perfect sense.

-The best RB in the draft who is apparently perfect for a 3 WR set.
-3 of the first 4 players defensive players
-A move for the best blocking TE in the draft.

As I've kept saying and will keep saying, the fantasy football days are over, kids. It's time to build a true winning franchise. That sometimes involves taking picks that weren't at the top of some of your geeky-ass draft boards.

garandman
04-25-2009, 09:25 PM
BS. Quinn's stock had risen and on more than one draft site, into the 3rd round and considered by some as the best blocking TE in this draft. So stop making up crap and just looking to b**** and moan. Go suck off Cutler somewhere.

Show me where he is the BEST blocking TE in this years draft... This pick is a joke, GM's are laughing there asses off tonight as they have all offseason...
Your statement is BS

Rohirrim
04-25-2009, 09:27 PM
Do e have a 1st next year?

After this draft I suspect we'll have a very good first next year. :thanku:

TheDave
04-25-2009, 09:30 PM
After this draft I suspect we'll have a very good first next year. :thanku:

To bad we already traded OUR 1st...

Taco John
04-25-2009, 09:35 PM
This was the stupidest draft pick the Broncos have made in decades. We needed front 7, not another blocking TE.

Rohirrim
04-25-2009, 09:48 PM
To bad we already traded OUR 1st...

Yeah. I just found that out. ROFL!

goldengopher1976
04-25-2009, 09:48 PM
Again, this Quinn pick makes perfect sense if you look at what the Patriots have done. In fact, if you're watching any coverage of this thing today, most analysts are saying that these picks fall in line with a lot of past Patriots picks.

I'm not saying I'm not surprised by the way this plays out, but when you break it down... it makes perfect sense.

-The best RB in the draft who is apparently perfect for a 3 WR set.
-3 of the first 4 players defensive players
-A move for the best blocking TE in the draft.

As I've kept saying and will keep saying, the fantasy football days are over, kids. It's time to build a true winning franchise. That sometimes involves taking picks that weren't at the top of some of your geeky-ass draft boards.

Couldn't agree more.

The picks we made today will help our defense as much as a few defensive players would have, and I assume we went offense where we did because the defensive players we targeted were gone.

If Moreno can provide us with the kind of consistent, grind-it-out running attack we've lacked, while running behind a great offensive line and two of the best blocking TEs in the league, our defense will see better field position and be able to play from ahead.

I remember well all the belly-aching after last year's draft, can we at least wait a bit to decide whether or not the sky is falling?

SonOfLe-loLang
04-25-2009, 09:52 PM
I've been a McDaniels supporter from go, but this move makes zero sense to me. It's inexcusable. This team lacked any nastiness on defense. it had none. What was so pressing about getting another blocking tight end that he trades two third rounders to get him. This is not a knock on Quinn, he might be a fine player, but we have a front seven full of holes....this pick shocks me.

While I'm at it, though I like Smith and McBath, its just the same crap flawed philosophy that our d has followed over the years. These players will be USELESS if we cant stop the run and generate pass rush. We better come away with some D-linemen tomorrow

tsiguy96
04-25-2009, 09:53 PM
by the way we traded two thirds for their 2nd and 4th round pick, so we didnt get completely hosed in the deal.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-25-2009, 09:53 PM
This was the stupidest draft pick the Broncos have made in decades. We needed front 7, not another blocking TE.

Well, we've made stupider.,...but yes, its curious

GeniusatWork
04-25-2009, 09:56 PM
Again, this Quinn pick makes perfect sense if you look at what the Patriots have done. In fact, if you're watching any coverage of this thing today, most analysts are saying that these picks fall in line with a lot of past Patriots picks.

I'm not saying I'm not surprised by the way this plays out, but when you break it down... it makes perfect sense.

-The best RB in the draft who is apparently perfect for a 3 WR set.
-3 of the first 4 players defensive players
-A move for the best blocking TE in the draft.

As I've kept saying and will keep saying, the fantasy football days are over, kids. It's time to build a true winning franchise. That sometimes involves taking picks that weren't at the top of some of your geeky-ass draft boards.

After reading the report on Quinn I can see why we wanted to get him. Like having a sixth OL it said. Good at settling into soft spots in zones and walling off LB's at the second level for the running game. Soft hands. He plays special teams. Steelers get our two third rounders that's not real good, they already are about the best team in the AFC. We get their fourth so maybe Pitt will mess up the two thirds and we'll ace the fourth. I wouldn't like to see Pitt ace our two thirds.

Atlas
04-25-2009, 09:57 PM
After reading the report on Quinn I can see why we wanted to get him. Like having a sixth OL it said. Good at settling into soft spots in zones and walling off LB's at the second level for the running game. Soft hands. He plays special teams. Steelers get our two third rounders that's not real good, they already are about the best team in the AFC. We get their fourth so maybe Pitt will mess up the two thirds and we'll ace the fourth. I wouldn't like to see Pitt ace our two thirds.


The guy caught 8 passes last year.

Rohirrim
04-25-2009, 09:58 PM
The guy caught 8 passes last year.

Yeah, but they were real pretty.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-25-2009, 10:00 PM
The guy caught 8 passes last year.

Yeah, not a knock on Quinn, but we have a front seven full of holes. Are we gonna be running a **** ton of 2 TE sets next year with two blocking TE's? is this team in desperate need of Max protecting? And we traded UP to get him? The move is curious. Again, this is not a knock on him, it's just weird.

DBroncos4life
04-25-2009, 10:05 PM
Again, this Quinn pick makes perfect sense if you look at what the Patriots have done. In fact, if you're watching any coverage of this thing today, most analysts are saying that these picks fall in line with a lot of past Patriots picks.

I'm not saying I'm not surprised by the way this plays out, but when you break it down... it makes perfect sense.

-The best RB in the draft who is apparently perfect for a 3 WR set.
-3 of the first 4 players defensive players
-A move for the best blocking TE in the draft.

As I've kept saying and will keep saying, the fantasy football days are over, kids. It's time to build a true winning franchise. That sometimes involves taking picks that weren't at the top of some of your geeky-ass draft boards.
The Pats D is pretty talented at the front seven but he we have a awesome long snapper and two of the best blocking TE's in the game. I for one also had back up blocking TE ranked has a higher problem then the front seven. Hell even picking up 2 new starting safteys and a new starting CB couldn't stop our new HC/GM from spending a few picks on those postions.

Never Trust a Snake
04-25-2009, 10:12 PM
Richard Quinn better be the next Riley ****ing Odoms.

Popps
04-25-2009, 10:20 PM
Couldn't agree more.

The picks we made today will help our defense as much as a few defensive players would have, and I assume we went offense where we did because the defensive players we targeted were gone.

If Moreno can provide us with the kind of consistent, grind-it-out running attack we've lacked, while running behind a great offensive line and two of the best blocking TEs in the league, our defense will see better field position and be able to play from ahead.

I remember well all the belly-aching after last year's draft, can we at least wait a bit to decide whether or not the sky is falling?

Look, you've got forum owners and moderators calling (basically) a third round pick "the worst pick in decades." So, the tone for the "sky is falling" nonsense starts at the top and, like ****... rolls downhill.

As the scouting report says, Quinn is an outstanding blocker, almost a linemen. He's highly regarded by scouts and if you understand the Patriots past success, you see where he fits in.

So, after spending 3 of 4 picks on defense, we took a guy to help protect the QB and solidify the running game.

Translation?

The transition to playoff-style football and away from fantasy football silliness continues.

People around here are afraid of their own shadow. Honestly, it's somewhere between funny and nauseating to watch. But, this team is doing what it needs to do to lay a foundation for success... and many of us remain excited about watching the team's potential play out over the next few years.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-25-2009, 10:24 PM
Look, you've got forum owners and moderators calling (basically) a third round pick "the worst pick in decades." So, the tone for the "sky is falling" nonsense starts at the top and, like ****... rolls downhill.

As the scouting report says, Quinn is an outstanding blocker, almost a linemen. He's highly regarded by scouts and if you understand the Patriots past success, you see where he fits in.

So, after spending 3 of 4 picks on defense, we took a guy to help protect the QB and solidify the running game.

Translation?

The transition to playoff-style football and away from fantasy football silliness continues.

People around here are afraid of their own shadow. Honestly, it's somewhere between funny and nauseating to watch. But, this team is doing what it needs to do to lay a foundation for success... and many of us remain excited about watching the team's potential play out over the next few years.

While I understand your point, i respectfully disagree. Again, i'm not arguing the value of Quinn as a player or taking an offensive player in this position. But it was trading up decent value when we never addressed the front seven. We needed to do that today and with the exception of Ayers, we ignored it in favor of secondary guys. We could have all pro bowlers back there and it wont matter if we can't stop the run.

Taco John
04-25-2009, 10:26 PM
Look, you've got forum owners and moderators calling (basically) a third round pick "the worst pick in decades." So, the tone for the "sky is falling" nonsense starts at the top and, like ****... rolls downhill.





Nonsense.... You've been screaming here for years - YEARS that we need to address defense. And now we're in a draft where we have all the resources in the world to address it, we end up taking positions that we're deepest at on the team.

I like the Moreno pick. I hated both trades up. The Quinn pick was stupid. We don't need a blocking TE - we need an NT, DE, LB.

The good thing out of this draft is that we never have to listen to you whine about the defense. You've lost your credible voice on that subject.

GeniusatWork
04-25-2009, 10:36 PM
The guy caught 8 passes last year.

I'm trying to make the best of it. It was a glowing report in some respects. This is what we have, so I hope for the best. You have to admit his skills translate to a solid NFL career. Not spectacular, but solid.

Popps
04-25-2009, 10:42 PM
While I understand your point, i respectfully disagree. Again, i'm not arguing the value of Quinn as a player or taking an offensive player in this position. But it was trading up decent value when we never addressed the front seven. We needed to do that today and with the exception of Ayers, we ignored it in favor of secondary guys. We could have all pro bowlers back there and it wont matter if we can't stop the run.

No one believes in building out the front seven more than I do, and we did take one of the best prospects in the draft.

Beyond that, there's no question in my mind that our staff was laser-focused on the guys they landed. Much like Shanahan with Royal last year, I didn't like the selection because of other needs, but couldn't deny the kid's talent.

Our secondary was crap, outside of Bailey. We went out and signed Dawkins, plus a couple of young potential quality players to get involved back there, as well as on STs, which McDaniels also mentioned.

Again, you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. A lot of these supposed first round DL/LB prospects slid pretty far. If our guys were laser-locked on players they see as stars or top contributors, then so be it.

The other side-bar to this whole thing is, I think McDaniels may believe he's got a good nucleus of players in the front seven with Ayers/Doom getting after the passer, and Thomas/Fields/Peterson/Reid handling the inside.

Then, you have the Powell/Moss/Crowder wild-cards.

So, I'm just guessing that the staff looked at what was available at those positions and said... who's a lock to be better than any of our prospects right now?

Conversely, they looked at CB/S/Blocking TE and saw major upgrades for the taking.

This staff knew what they wanted and went right out and got it.

Popps
04-25-2009, 10:44 PM
Nonsense.... You've been screaming here for years - YEARS that we need to address defense. And now we're in a draft where we have all the resources in the world to address it, we end up taking positions that we're deepest at on the team.

I like the Moreno pick. I hated both trades up. The Quinn pick was stupid. We don't need a blocking TE - we need an NT, DE, LB.

The good thing out of this draft is that we never have to listen to you whine about the defense. You've lost your credible voice on that subject.

You may have missed the draft today, Taco?

3 of the first 4 players we took were defenders, and one was a DE regarded by Mayock as the future "best defensive player in this draft."


Lost credibility? Gosh, I'd hate to lose credibility with you, Taco. They guy that wanted Leinart over Cutler, and hasn't understood this team's needs for the past five years.

Drek
04-25-2009, 10:46 PM
Nonsense.... You've been screaming here for years - YEARS that we need to address defense. And now we're in a draft where we have all the resources in the world to address it, we end up taking positions that we're deepest at on the team.

I like the Moreno pick. I hated both trades up. The Quinn pick was stupid. We don't need a blocking TE - we need an NT, DE, LB.

The good thing out of this draft is that we never have to listen to you whine about the defense. You've lost your credible voice on that subject.

We already took a DE/LB hybrid, and Doom is a better bet to fit the 3-4 than a 2nd or 3rd round rookie would've been.

Who should we have taken at NT? Raji was gone. Ron Brace? I've heard some pretty credible analysts say he wouldn't be more than a 3rd rounder in a decent year. Having watched him play I can see it. He's only climbed up the draft boards because this DT class sucks.

I'm not a big fan of the Alphonso Smith trade because I never like the idea of mortgaging a future 1st. But if they were going to do it they at least chose the right position to do it at. Smith is probably a better CB prospect than anyone you'll find in next year's mediocre class and its a position we'll need to address sooner than later with both Champ and Goodman on the wrong side of 30 now.

This draft sucked for DL talent. The FO chose to take talent at other need positions rather than over pick guys who will probably bust out of the league. Can't really fault them for that.

I don't dislike the Quinn trade quite so much now that I heard we got the Steeler's 4th in return. We can get a solid developmental prospect there almost as easily as the mid-3rd we used to move up. But another blocking TE makes sense if McDaniels is going to build his offense around what Graham offers in that capacity. We can't afford to lose that dimension if Graham gets hurt, or be forced to remove it in a few years when he gets older and is no longer viable.

Popps
04-25-2009, 10:46 PM
Nonsense.... You've been screaming here for years - YEARS that we need to address defense. And now we're in a draft where we have all the resources in the world to address it, we end up taking positions that we're deepest at on the team.

I like the Moreno pick. I hated both trades up. The Quinn pick was stupid. We don't need a blocking TE - we need an NT, DE, LB.

The good thing out of this draft is that we never have to listen to you whine about the defense. You've lost your credible voice on that subject.

Huh!?

RB - I love Hillis, but this was a RBC group, at best. No pure, stud Portis-like back on this team.
DE - We were deep here? Really?
CB-Againg Champ Bailey and jack-**** else.
S-Dawkins and jack-**** else.

So, the "deepest" positions?

Please.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-25-2009, 10:47 PM
No one believes in building out the front seven more than I do, and we did take one of the best prospects in the draft.

Beyond that, there's no question in my mind that our staff was laser-focused on the guys they landed. Much like Shanahan with Royal last year, I didn't like the selection because of other needs, but couldn't deny the kid's talent.

Our secondary was crap, outside of Bailey. We went out and signed Dawkins, plus a couple of young potential quality players to get involved back there, as well as on STs, which McDaniels also mentioned.

Again, you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. A lot of these supposed first round DL/LB prospects slid pretty far. If our guys were laser-locked on players they see as stars or top contributors, then so be it.

The other side-bar to this whole thing is, I think McDaniels may believe he's got a good nucleus of players in the front seven with Ayers/Doom getting after the passer, and Thomas/Fields/Peterson/Reid handling the inside.

Then, you have the Powell/Moss/Crowder wild-cards.

So, I'm just guessing that the staff looked at what was available at those positions and said... who's a lock to be better than any of our prospects right now?

Conversely, they looked at CB/S/Blocking TE and saw major upgrades for the taking.

This staff knew what they wanted and went right out and got it.

I understand the logic, I just think its ultimately a mistake. And factoring in what they gave to get these guys, its baffling. Was Richard Quinn THAT important that we actually traded up for him? I just cant imagine he is. We need some DL prospects and there are a bunch to be had in the 3rd round that are interesting (Baker, Scott, Hill, Taylor). Now we have to hope some slide to the 4th because we were hard up on a blocking tight end (something we already have). Maybe they'll trade Scheff for a 3rd, i dunno, but its a curious decision. Hey, when Mike Shanahan drafted Middlebrooks, Toviessi, Lennie Friedman...i called it ****ing retarded from go.

GeniusatWork
04-25-2009, 10:54 PM
Look, you've got forum owners and moderators calling (basically) a third round pick "the worst pick in decades." So, the tone for the "sky is falling" nonsense starts at the top and, like ****... rolls downhill.

As the scouting report says, Quinn is an outstanding blocker, almost a linemen. He's highly regarded by scouts and if you understand the Patriots past success, you see where he fits in.

So, after spending 3 of 4 picks on defense, we took a guy to help protect the QB and solidify the running game.

Translation?

The transition to playoff-style football and away from fantasy football silliness continues.

People around here are afraid of their own shadow. Honestly, it's somewhere between funny and nauseating to watch. But, this team is doing what it needs to do to lay a foundation for success... and many of us remain excited about watching the team's potential play out over the next few years.

I knew nothing about Quinn, but now I saw the scouting report I like what his potential is. He's what I would call a chain-mover. A player that first moves a DE out of the way then walls off an LB so the RB is sprung out for at least the first down. And also can catch for the first down.

Popps
04-25-2009, 10:59 PM
I understand the logic, I just think its ultimately a mistake. And factoring in what they gave to get these guys, its baffling. Was Richard Quinn THAT important that we actually traded up for him? I just cant imagine he is. .

That's where it just boils down to... who's smarter, you or our staff? I'm not being funny, there's just no other way to look at it. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but you have to admit, these were VERY focused picks. These weren't players dropping into their laps.

So, yes... they apparently DID think these players were THAT important. You heard McD say that Smith was a first round talent and that he had no problem making the move. (Nor did he care where anyone else had him rated.)

So, these weren't "mistakes," they were highly calculated moves, evident much more so because of the methods we used to obtain them.

That said, we lost between 10-20 slots to pick one guy (likely) and we traded 2 3rds for a 2nd and a 4th in the other situation. Not exactly giving up the farm.

The staff used extra picks to maneuver around to get who they wanted, and these are the guys they wanted. They may well BE mistakes, but we won't know that for quite some time.

Popps
04-25-2009, 11:00 PM
I knew nothing about Quinn, but now I saw the scouting report I like what his potential is. He's what I would call a chain-mover. A player that first moves a DE out of the way then walls off an LB so the RB is sprung out for at least the first down. And also can catch for the first down.

Check out the Pats article from the 07 playoff game above. They often run not only 2, but 3 TE sets. These are integral players in their system.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-25-2009, 11:01 PM
That's where it just boils down to... who's smarter, you or our staff? I'm not being funny, there's just no other way to look at it. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but you have to admit, these were VERY focused picks. These weren't players dropping into their laps.

So, yes... they apparently DID think these players were THAT important. You heard McD say that Smith was a first round talent and that he had no problem making the move. (Nor did he care where anyone else had him rated.)

So, these weren't "mistakes," they were highly calculated moves, evident much more so because of the methods we used to obtain them.

That said, we lost between 10-20 slots to pick one guy (likely) and we traded 2 3rds for a 2nd and a 4th in the other situation. Not exactly giving up the farm.

The staff used extra picks to maneuver around to get who they wanted, and these are the guys they wanted. They may well BE mistakes, but we won't know that for quite some time.

A lot of times, common sense of the fan actually makes more sense than the people involved. This is hardly unique to football, but all sports. We all questioned on the spot why Dallas would give up so much for Roy Williams, it appears we were right. We all laugh when the celtics sign brian scalabrine to a long term deal. We were all right. This, to me, is the same kind of thinking. To me, its obvious that...to stop the run, you have to acquire guys to do that. We didnt. I've watched the "acquire cover guys to aid the pass rush" philosophy for a few years now and it doesnt work.

Popps
04-25-2009, 11:11 PM
A lot of times, common sense of the fan actually makes more sense than the people involved. .

I actually agree with that. So, again... it just boils down to who made the right call. Clearly, these picks were no accident. Maybe you are right, and the staff over-thought these picks. We'll see.

I personally don't think so. I think they could have done a few things differently, which is why I'd call day 1 a B-. But, I do understand it, and I do see big upside.

To me, its obvious that...to stop the run, you have to acquire guys to do that. We didnt. I've watched the "acquire cover guys to aid the pass rush" philosophy for a few years now and it doesnt work.

Well, Rohirrim has been mentioning this as well, and it's not without merit.
But, Ayers is said to be a very strong player...

Strengths: Ayers is a strong defensive end who is an asset against the run. He stacks and sheds really quickly and knows how to properly use his hands. Technically sound tackler who delivers a wallop.


and another...

Run Defense: Ayers showed in 2008 that he is consistent getting leverage to take on blockers. He can usually control the isolated blocker with good hand quickness and foot balance. There are times where he can get high off the ball and, because of his lack of ideal strength at the point, he struggles to neutralize. However, he does a decent job to anchor, staying low in his pads. He had problems vs. offensive tackles and tight ends when they covered him up and he failed to contain. With added experience in 2008, he showed he can stack, shed, extend and slide to make the plays on the corner. He is slippery at the line with his rip and swim moves, making it difficult for the tackles to make a reach block on him. GRADE: 7.7

Sounds to me like he's above average against the run, at minimum.


You also have to consider that we're running a whole new system. We have NO IDEA how guys like Thomas, Reid and Fields are going to pan out. (Not to mention Powell and others.)

We may very well have better weapons than you realize, and I'm guessing McDaniels/Nolan looked at that group and said... there's no one outside the top 10 that is an obvious improvement over what we have already.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-25-2009, 11:16 PM
I actually agree with that. So, again... it just boils down to who made the right call. Clearly, these picks were no accident. Maybe you are right, and the staff over-thought these picks. We'll see.

I personally don't think so. I think they could have done a few things differently, which is why I'd call day 1 a B-. But, I do understand it, and I do see big upside.



Well, Rohirrim has been mentioning this as well, and it's not without merit.
But, Ayers is said to be a very strong player...

Strengths: Ayers is a strong defensive end who is an asset against the run. He stacks and sheds really quickly and knows how to properly use his hands. Technically sound tackler who delivers a wallop.


and another...

Run Defense: Ayers showed in 2008 that he is consistent getting leverage to take on blockers. He can usually control the isolated blocker with good hand quickness and foot balance. There are times where he can get high off the ball and, because of his lack of ideal strength at the point, he struggles to neutralize. However, he does a decent job to anchor, staying low in his pads. He had problems vs. offensive tackles and tight ends when they covered him up and he failed to contain. With added experience in 2008, he showed he can stack, shed, extend and slide to make the plays on the corner. He is slippery at the line with his rip and swim moves, making it difficult for the tackles to make a reach block on him. GRADE: 7.7

Sounds to me like he's above average against the run, at minimum.


You also have to consider that we're running a whole new system. We have NO IDEA how guys like Thomas, Reid and Fields are going to pan out. (Not to mention Powell and others.)

We may very well have better weapons than you realize, and I'm guessing McDaniels/Nolan looked at that group and said... there's no one outside the top 10 that is an obvious improvement over what we have already.

That's true that they might value what they already have on the Dline more than I do, but greater football minds than my own also thought Nate Webster would be solid at Mike last year:) I hope they know what they're doing.

Atlas
04-25-2009, 11:18 PM
As the scouting report says, Quinn is an outstanding blocker, almost a linemen. He's highly regarded by scouts and if you understand the Patriots past success, you see where he fits in.

.

If Denver wanted to get a blocking TE to back up Graham they could have re-signed Mustard.

snowspot66
04-25-2009, 11:28 PM
I have to agree with Popps. I think it's more of a case of thinking what was available (at DT/DE) wouldn't be that much better than what we had and not a case of thinking everything we have is just fine and dandy. They definitely chose positions we have or will have a major need at and got guys that not only have great potential but should be head and shoulders above the guys we trotted out last year.

I believe we greatly improved today. Top ten D? Not a chance. But we could definitely break the top 20 and maybe even 15 if we get a bit of luck and I think we would all kill for that kind of improvement at this point after the last two years.

This defense is going to be a project for the next three years. We need to keep doing what we did today. Add quality players and not hit the "Oh ****" button like we did in 07.

Drek
04-25-2009, 11:30 PM
If Denver wanted to get a blocking TE to back up Graham they could have re-signed Mustard.

Kinda defeats the purpose if they're looking to not only add depth but also add Graham's not so distant replacement.

Graham is 30 years old and makes a whole heap of money. I'd be surprised if he's here in two or three years.

Atlas
04-25-2009, 11:49 PM
Kinda defeats the purpose if they're looking to not only add depth but also add Graham's not so distant replacement.

Graham is 30 years old and makes a whole heap of money. I'd be surprised if he's here in two or three years.

TEs especially blocking TEs can play well into their mid 30's. I guess if they want to reduce cost and cut Graham than that is just another reason for Bowlen to sell the team.

GeniusatWork
04-25-2009, 11:54 PM
Check out the Pats article from the 07 playoff game above. They often run not only 2, but 3 TE sets. These are integral players in their system.

No need to sell me. I like the pick after reading the scout rport. Steep cost though.

And I don't really care what the Pats have done. Denver isn't going tyo run the Pats system.

GeniusatWork
04-26-2009, 12:04 AM
I understand the logic, I just think its ultimately a mistake. And factoring in what they gave to get these guys, its baffling. Was Richard Quinn THAT important that we actually traded up for him? I just cant imagine he is. We need some DL prospects and there are a bunch to be had in the 3rd round that are interesting (Baker, Scott, Hill, Taylor). Now we have to hope some slide to the 4th because we were hard up on a blocking tight end (something we already have). Maybe they'll trade Scheff for a 3rd, i dunno, but its a curious decision. Hey, when Mike Shanahan drafted Middlebrooks, Toviessi, Lennie Friedman...i called it ****ing retarded from go.

If Quinn can live up to that scout report, can move the chain in crucial situations he's an asset. Giving Pittsbugh the best team in the AFC our two thirds for him and a fourth I hope that Pitt doesn't get better from it.

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:13 AM
No need to sell me. I like the pick after reading the scout rport. Steep cost though.

And I don't really care what the Pats have done. Denver isn't going tyo run the Pats system.

I think there will be a lot of similarities, judging by the personnel McDaniels is acquiring... which is fine with me. It's a very difficult system for defenses to deal with.

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:14 AM
TEs especially blocking TEs can play well into their mid 30's. I guess if they want to reduce cost and cut Graham than that is just another reason for Bowlen to sell the team.

Huh!?

Bowlen is going to sell the team because we drafted a blocking tight end at the end of the 2nd round?

cabronco
04-26-2009, 12:26 AM
I can't wait for next year to really fortify the defensive front. Oh ya and pick up our next franchise quarterback. I just have a bad feeling we'll get a wr or two & fullback instead.

SoDak Bronco
04-26-2009, 12:27 AM
WTF are we doing

Drek
04-26-2009, 12:40 AM
TEs especially blocking TEs can play well into their mid 30's. I guess if they want to reduce cost and cut Graham than that is just another reason for Bowlen to sell the team.

Graham has some pass catching skills. Supposedly Quinn here impressed people in drills with his pass catching skills as well.

When Graham hits age decline that is the part of his game that he will lose first. Also, not wanting to pay a blocking TE over $5M a year (the fat back end of Graham's deal) is more about not wanting to waste cap space than budget I'm sure.

Popps
04-26-2009, 12:42 AM
I still think it's much less likely this is a Graham replacement, but rather a compliment. Both of them can block their asses off and catch when need be.... and NE has a history of going to multiple TE sets at times.

I'd think we'll be even more likely to use those formations as we look to protect Orton or Simms as they develop in our system.

Drek
04-26-2009, 12:46 AM
I still think it's much less likely this is a Graham replacement, but rather a compliment. Both of them can block their asses off and catch when need be.... and NE has a history of going to multiple TE sets at times.

I'd think we'll be even more likely to use those formations as we look to protect Orton or Simms as they develop in our system.

I think it'll be a complimentary role at first, but the ultimate goal will be for Quinn to replace Graham as the primary TE I would imagine. That eventuality really isn't that far down the line.

Atlas
04-26-2009, 01:06 AM
Huh!?

Bowlen is going to sell the team because we drafted a blocking tight end at the end of the 2nd round?

No, the previous poster stated that this TE was drafted because Graham made a lot of money and would probably not be with Denver very long because of it. I stated that if Bowlen's cost cutting gets to where he has to reach for a blocking TE in the 2nd round so he can cut Graham than he needs to sell the team.

WHy is Denver is such terrible financial shape?

TheChamp24
04-26-2009, 01:07 AM
This pick was stupid.
We used 3 picks on defense, but 2 of them were on DB's. Where is the help to solidify the front 7?
Don't try to tell me we are fine there. I have no freakin clue we have anybody that can start on the DL, Ayers isn't a DE in the 3-4 btw, he is an OLB guy if I'm correct.
I think we could sat back, with a good likelihood we get a decent NT prospect in the 3rd and possibly could've gotten Quinn in the 3rd too. If not, could've used it on someone else for DL.

Popps
04-26-2009, 01:14 AM
No, the previous poster stated that this TE was drafted because Graham made a lot of money and would probably not be with Denver very long because of it. I stated that if Bowlen's cost cutting gets to where he has to reach for a blocking TE in the 2nd round so he can cut Graham than he needs to sell the team.

WHy is Denver is such terrible financial shape?

Well, times are tough... but I haven't heard we're any worse than any other team, financially. We drafted two 1st rounders and were pretty active in free agency, given... no huge contracts.

What makes you think we're in "terrible" financial shape?

GeniusatWork
04-26-2009, 01:18 AM
I think there will be a lot of similarities, judging by the personnel McDaniels is acquiring... which is fine with me. It's a very difficult system for defenses to deal with.

Similarities, but not wholesale changes. I'm not disagreeing with you. McD retained Dennison and Bobby Turner for a reason. They had a system that he liked and didn't want to disrupt. A flexible system that he wanted to incorporate. Basically, I don't like to hear that this is NE West, and will argue against it, OK?

Popps
04-26-2009, 01:19 AM
This pick was stupid.
We used 3 picks on defense, but 2 of them were on DB's. Where is the help to solidify the front 7?
Don't try to tell me we are fine there..

Ayers is going to play a little DE and a little LB. Versatility is a constant theme on Patriots/McDaniels' teams. Expect all of our linemen to move around.

As for taking two secondary guys, yes... I would have preferred two front seven and one DB. But, we did take the DL pick first, and he's highly regarded.

Beyond that, you need to know you're drafting an improvement over what we have at those positions, and the staff must not have been convinced that they could have. So, instead... they addressed huge needs in the secondary. (Also guys that can play on STs, which is crucial.)

In a perfect world, yes... we take another front seven guy. But, it's not panic -time, either. We got one potential stud, and as I keep saying... I think the scheme shift works MUCH better for a few guys already on our roster.

Popps
04-26-2009, 01:22 AM
Similarities, but not wholesale changes. I'm not disagreeing with you. McD retained Dennison and Bobby Turner for a reason. They had a system that he liked and didn't want to disrupt. A flexible system that he wanted to incorporate. Basically, I don't like to hear that this is NE West, and will argue against it, OK?

:giggle:

Yea, I don't think we are. Even if we bring in a lot of NE philosophy, don't sweat it. We basically brought the entire SF 49ers culture to Denver in the mid-90s, and that worked out well. I never mind influence coming in from winning organizations.

I do agree that we'll see some similarities in the running game. (More so than the passing game.)

I can't wait to see this kid run. People forget what it was like to have a back like Davis or Portis. They forget how it puts opposing defenses in such bad spots at all times. Plus, I still believe Hillis should be getting plenty of first down carries.

Atlas
04-26-2009, 02:01 AM
Well, times are tough... but I haven't heard we're any worse than any other team, financially. We drafted two 1st rounders and were pretty active in free agency, given... no huge contracts.

What makes you think we're in "terrible" financial shape?

The Denver Post stated that that Denvertraded their first ound pick in 2010 for the 2nd rond this year partly because they didn't want to pay for that pick. Bowlen has been on the cheap all offseason.

Drek
04-26-2009, 02:05 AM
No, the previous poster stated that this TE was drafted because Graham made a lot of money and would probably not be with Denver very long because of it. I stated that if Bowlen's cost cutting gets to where he has to reach for a blocking TE in the 2nd round so he can cut Graham than he needs to sell the team.

WHy is Denver is such terrible financial shape?

Graham's tenure with Denver is probably short lived because the expected end of his athletic peak happens to coincide with the peak value of his contract.

Its got nothing to do with the financial state of the franchise. Its just not good business to pay a declining TE $5M a season.

OBF1
04-26-2009, 02:56 AM
This was the stupidest draft pick the Broncos have made in decades. We needed front 7, not another blocking TE.

2 words.... MARCUS NASH. This pick makes alot more sense.

p7superfly
04-26-2009, 03:25 AM
1st round? Good.

2nd round and next year? A massacre.

Totally happy with 2/5 of our picks. The rest? Keep Cutler. We got Ayers, an undersized corner, and a 3rd for Cutler...

I'd take Cutler over that any day.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 05:09 AM
Couldn't agree more.

The picks we made today will help our defense as much as a few defensive players would have, and I assume we went offense where we did because the defensive players we targeted were gone.

If Moreno can provide us with the kind of consistent, grind-it-out running attack we've lacked, while running behind a great offensive line and two of the best blocking TEs in the league, our defense will see better field position and be able to play from ahead.

I remember well all the belly-aching after last year's draft, can we at least wait a bit to decide whether or not the sky is falling?

True enough and the draft isn't even half over. As I recall we got Wesley Woodyard in FA last year!

Relax folks a few of you guys have been reading too much Weasel Worm John Clayton lately. Wonder why Clayton isn't running a draft room if hes so skilled at 'building a team'. What a joke.

eddie mac
04-26-2009, 06:17 AM
Quinn is the 2nd best complete TE in the draft and at least 2 teams were looking at him in the early 3rd rd.

Graham plus Quinn in a 2 TE set = ball control running game guaranteed. No-one will stop Moreno.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 06:25 AM
Ayers is going to play a little DE and a little LB. Versatility is a constant theme on Patriots/McDaniels' teams. Expect all of our linemen to move around.

As for taking two secondary guys, yes... I would have preferred two front seven and one DB. But, we did take the DL pick first, and he's highly regarded.

Beyond that, you need to know you're drafting an improvement over what we have at those positions, and the staff must not have been convinced that they could have. So, instead... they addressed huge needs in the secondary. (Also guys that can play on STs, which is crucial.)

In a perfect world, yes... we take another front seven guy. But, it's not panic -time, either. We got one potential stud, and as I keep saying... I think the scheme shift works MUCH better for a few guys already on our roster.

This is the key point you make Popps, that seems to escape most of the Nervous Nelly's here who have spent too much time memorizing all the Mocks of Mel Kiper etc the past few months.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, all you have to do is go cue up McDs pre-draft presser on Friday and the whole philosophy comes pouring right out!

One reason the Patriots have been so consistently successful is because they DON'T do like most other teams and focus mainly on the hyped names. They evaluate every player in the draft relative to how they feel they meet their needs within their complex and highly flexible style of game planning.

I'm glad he isn't just picking all the usual suspects, if so Bowlen could have hired any chump on the Mane with a strong opinion!

McD went on and on about how each assistant coach and coordinator was hired because of their ability to get the most out of their existing players and really coach em up. And that is what they were going to do .. get much more out of the existing players and put them in better position to succeed.

The obvious areas where they feel they need better talent they are trying to fill now.

But look how many LB's we have to work with now, and with guys like Spencer Larsen, DJ, Andra Davis, Woodyard, as well as Darrel Reid, Doom, Moss and perhaps Crowder as OLB/DE guys now joined with the very versatile Ayers, they may be perfectly happy with those four of the front seven as it is.

Choosinga front three rotation from Marcus Thomas, Powell (who I think is going to surprise a lot of people) , Kenny Peterson, and again Reid, Ayers, perhaps Crowder and Askew vying for rotation at DE along with serviceable though not dominant NT in Fields, our front seven problems are likely not any where near as bad as they looked last year.

Not to mention that we'll surely add at least a few more DL men today and having X-man. Hill, a health Champ, Goodman and this firecracker in Alphonso as well as McBath and Barrett coming off the bench and all tackling from the backfield, I suspect were gong to be more than marginally improved on the D.

It's funny how some of these guys here seem to have fixed in their minds a static snapshot of how the D played last year with a confusing back and forth scheme that was constantly being revamped in mid-season, and have projected the same thing onto this year as if nothing has changed at all so far!!!

And assuming that the D this year with the maturing young guys and an entirely new coaching staff and all the new guys we have upgraded including now Adding Ayers, Smith and McBath is automatically going to suck BIG TIME simply because we didn't land Raji or Jackson!

Its like driving off a cliff while looking in the review mirror.

I'm giving McD a lot of rope for two seasons to turn this thing around and fully expect that by years end we'll be a lot more competitive and not getting embarrassed again as the crap we laid the last three games of 08 even with our "super-star QB there to save the day.

The Whole team had packed it in and Shanny seemed utterly powerless to motivate anyone. This is a new year guys. Enjoy it!

NYBronco
04-26-2009, 06:29 AM
I look for Quinn to help us get into the end zone in an area where we were severely lacking last year... the red zone. With Moreno, our offensive line, WR's and a system QB I expect to see improvement.

Hulamau
04-26-2009, 06:36 AM
I look for Quinn to help us get into the end zone in an area where we were severely lacking last year... the red zone. With Moreno, our offensive line, WR's and a system QB I expect to see improvement.

Ditto NYBronco I see substantial improvements are likely on both sides of the ball and special teams with Reid as well as Larsen, Woodyard, Smith McBath and Barrett on special teams too. And Eddie has another years experience and a full training camp to improve as a Kickoff punt returner.

And both Kern and Prater will no doubt be more consistent with their second full years as starters.

Sometimes a lot of change is just what the Doctor ordered, where there is a solid plan behind it, some youthful energy and enthusiasm and the ability to motivate people and instill real discipline as well. I see elements of all of these things in play here now and that is what has me excited. There will be some learning bumps getting it all together but the ship is heading in the right direction at last.

NYBronco
04-26-2009, 06:52 AM
1st round? Good.

2nd round and next year? A massacre.

Totally happy with 2/5 of our picks. The rest? Keep Cutler. We got Ayers, an undersized corner, and a 3rd for Cutler...

I'd take Cutler over that any day.

It's understandable to feel comfortable with Cutler. He had two and a half years to build up your confidence level. But Jay is long gone. The more I read about these new players and how our coaches will use them I feel comfortable with the direction they are taking us. I am grateful Cutler didn't turn out to be Leinart and/or Young. Absolutely no trade value even near what Cutler secured for us. Of course with either Leinart or Young there wouldn't have been the firestorm Denver received of trade talk concerning these underperforming QB's.