PDA

View Full Version : What's the smartest BPA in the 1st if no D-linemen is taken?


footstepsfrom#27
04-21-2009, 09:48 AM
This might not be the sexy pick...but I think it might be the smart pick:

http://www.collegefootballfansite.com/images/photos/14489.jpg

I've thought through what Little Hoodie says about the Broncos taking the proverbial BPA in this draft. Will he? Debatable...lots of coaches say that but when it comes down to it they try to fill a hole even if they're reaching a bit while still preaching BPA. Let's assume he's serious though, and examine what that really means, because there are exceptions here.

For starters, I think we can limit this discusion to the first round only. Teams will take more risks and reach for players later even if they say they're using the BPA approach, so all of this applies here only to picks 12 and 18. Nobody's going to care if they reach for a guy in the 6th round.

Here are five criteria that I think define the limitations of drafting the BPA for Denver:

1) They won't draft a player who doesn't fit the scheme since he's obviously not the BPA for this team even if he's the most talented on the board. The best example here is Raji, the DT who according to most, is not a true nose tackle in the 3-4 defense. I’m thinking Gerard Warren here. It's unlikely he's there at 12 anyway, probably going at least by #9 to GB, but even if he is, how can they take him if he's not going to play the nose? Doing so would be foolish if you think he doesn't fit your defense. Eliminate him on that basis plus him probably being gone anyway. Also eliminate any OLB or DE who does not fit the mold of the 3-4 defense or any smallish DT not big enough for the NT spot. That means Peria Jerry, who is too small to play NT. He's also 25 years old.

2) They could move up but it won't be for a player whose talent does not warrant it. In the top 10 picks that means Malcolm Jenkins IMO. Yes he's a good cover 6'1", 200 pounder in a weak CB class...he also ran a mediocre 4.55 forty. Sorry...if you're going to get a top 10 contract you better have more jets than that as a cover corner. A lot of teams see him as a safety. If you take a safety in the top 12 he better be a lock for stardom, and Jenkins isn't. He's off the board. I'll freak if they take this guy...especially if they have to trade up.

3) They won't draft anyone in the first round that has to play a different position in the pros if they can avoid it. See Jenkins again on this one because they CAN avoid it. Should we eliminate Tennesee's 6'3" 272 pound DE Robert Ayers on the basis of him having to switch to a 3-4 LB? I don't think so on the basis of his ability, but in this draft that appears to have an abundance of 3-4 OLB types available into the 3rd and 4th round, it doesn’t make sense to force a pick this high for a 3-4 OLB. Brian Orakpo has the size/speed ratio to play either a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB and he’s a physical freak but something about his Texas roots makes me not trust him. If he's there at 12 though they probably have to take him based on talent alone. FSU's Brown and PSU's Maybin are a notch behind size-wise...more tweeners and without quite the same speed. I think they nix Peria Jerry on this basis also. Can he play 3-4 DE instead of inside in a 4-3 defense? Maybe...maybe not...I'd put him alongside Jenkins as a guy they probably don't want to have to tinker with, especially since they have to already do this with Thomas. He's supposedly not that tough against the run so that makes it hard to see him as a potential DE here.

4) They won't draft players with character issues, at least I hope not. I know a lot of people like Rey Rey...but here's my definition of a guy that Little Hoodie considers a character issue; anybody who might be a "me" guy...anybody who might be a flava clown, or too hard headed to understand and accept that it's all about it being McDaniels way or the highway...somebody who is a threat to become contentious in other words. Is he a bad guy? Maybe not...but something about that reporter incident bothers me...it was creepy. But I see some Romo in this guy both the good and the bad. I think he could be all pro or he could be a wack-job. I also dislike the idea of spending a #1 on a guy who might be coming off the field on passing downs. More to the point...I think McDaniels wants guys he doesn't have to fight with. In other words anyone that looks like they might have an ego bigger than Josh's...cross 'em off the list. That takes care of Vontae Davis too.

5) They obviously won't draft a QB, OT, WR or 4-3 OLB. If Little Hoodie actually does pull off some crazy deal and draft Sanchez, I think even his fans on this board will be ready to run this guy out of town. He knows he's committed to Orton/Simms at least for this year, so any QB will be a later round guy. Forget OT of course and scratch all the receivers off the list. None are that great anyway...including Crabtree IMO. I can't possibly see him taking a receiver in round 1, if at all.

Whose left?

These are the guys in no particular order that fit the criteria and are all possible first round picks based on talent, though some will probably slide; Aaron Curry, Brian Orakpo, Tyson Jackson, Brian Cushing, Brandon Pettigrew, Clay Mathews, Knowshon Moreno, Chris Wells, Darius Butler, Donald Brown, Max Unger, Alex Mack, James Laurinaitis

Of those 13, only 3 are likely to be gone; Curry, Orakpo (maybe) and Jackson...if you believe the hype on him. Unless they truly believe that either Jackson or Raji is a true impact player, why force picking a D-line guy if he's not a difference maker? It would be a mistake despite how badly we need those guys. Of the remaining guys...none stand out as being worth the 12th pick. This tells me they're best move is probably moving down with this pick if Raji and Jackson are gone. I'd like to see them move it for a 2nd and maybe a 4th now and a #1 next year. Assuming they might move down to about 21-26 spots to the 33-38 area they could still possibly grab somebody off that list, though only 4 defenders remain, and two of those, Cushing and Mathews…reportedly failed steroid tests.

From what I've seen, Laurinaitis has slipped a bit. Some say he's there in the 2nd round. I don't believe it but who cares anyway? Why risk it? This guy’s won every award you can win for linebackers, he's very solid in pass coverage meaning he'd be an every down ILB for us, and while not the Butkus hitter type that Rey Rey is...he's a solid tackler and he picked off 5 passes last year. Basically he does it all...this kid has some Spielman in him. I'd take Laurinaitis since there are more 3-4 OLB types (English) available later. He'd be a very nice upgrade for us in the middle, a vocal leader and a guy who will play every down. With the extra #2 we could hopefully get Brace for the NT spot and still have another 2 to take a safety or maybe even somebody like Mack if he's still around.

Here's how we could wind up in rounds 1-3...

18- Laurinaitis
33-38- Brace
48- Mack
84- English

3 #1 picks in 2010...then we fill the NT spot with a cheaper, more natural nose guy than Raji, fill two LB spots and pick up a O-line starter for 2010 as well.

Rohirrim
04-21-2009, 10:13 AM
I think you are waaaay overplaying the character concerns on Rey. And he is not a "me" guy at all. He's just a bit wild. The key difference between Laurenitis and Rey is that Rey's strength is against the run. Thats L's weakness. L needs a good line in front of him to protect him. He won't get that here, at least for a while. L's strength is coverage. I don't think that's the Broncos' biggest weakness. Nolan can use many of the pieces he's got in the secondary and with the existing LB core to provide adequate coverage. What he doesn't have is the pieces to create a pass rush and shut down the run. That should be the focus of this draft. Rey suits that to a tee. That's why I say if we can walk away with Tyson, Rey and Chung, we just got a whole lot better against the run and with improving the pass rush.

NFLBRONCO
04-21-2009, 10:20 AM
This might not be the sexy pick...but I think it might be the smart pick:

http://www.collegefootballfansite.com/images/photos/14489.jpg

I've thought through what Little Hoodie says about the Broncos taking the proverbial BPA in this draft. Will he? Debatable...lots of coaches say that but when it comes down to it they try to fill a hole even if they're reaching a bit while still preaching BPA. Let's assume he's serious though, and examine what that really means, because there are exceptions here.

For starters, I think we can limit this discusion to the first round only. Teams will take more risks and reach for players later even if they say they're using the BPA approach, so all of this applies here only to picks 12 and 18. Nobody's going to care if they reach for a guy in the 6th round.

Here are five criteria that I think define the limitations of drafting the BPA for Denver:

1) They won't draft a player who doesn't fit the scheme since he's obviously not the BPA for this team even if he's the most talented on the board. The best example here is Raji, the DT who according to most, is not a true nose tackle in the 3-4 defense. I’m thinking Gerard Warren here. It's unlikely he's there at 12 anyway, probably going at least by #9 to GB, but even if he is, how can they take him if he's not going to play the nose? Doing so would be foolish if you think he doesn't fit your defense. Eliminate him on that basis plus him probably being gone anyway. Also eliminate any OLB or DE who does not fit the mold of the 3-4 defense or any smallish DT not big enough for the NT spot. That means Peria Jerry, who is too small to play NT. He's also 25 years old.

2) They could move up but it won't be for a player whose talent does not warrant it. In the top 10 picks that means Malcolm Jenkins IMO. Yes he's a good cover 6'1", 200 pounder in a weak CB class...he also ran a mediocre 4.55 forty. Sorry...if you're going to get a top 10 contract you better have more jets than that as a cover corner. A lot of teams see him as a safety. If you take a safety in the top 12 he better be a lock for stardom, and Jenkins isn't. He's off the board. I'll freak if they take this guy...especially if they have to trade up.

3) They won't draft anyone in the first round that has to play a different position in the pros if they can avoid it. See Jenkins again on this one because they CAN avoid it. Should we eliminate Tennesee's 6'3" 272 pound DE Robert Ayers on the basis of him having to switch to a 3-4 LB? I don't think so on the basis of his ability, but in this draft that appears to have an abundance of 3-4 OLB types available into the 3rd and 4th round, it doesn’t make sense to force a pick this high for a 3-4 OLB. Brian Orakpo has the size/speed ratio to play either a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB and he’s a physical freak but something about his Texas roots makes me not trust him. If he's there at 12 though they probably have to take him based on talent alone. FSU's Brown and PSU's Maybin are a notch behind size-wise...more tweeners and without quite the same speed. I think they nix Peria Jerry on this basis also. Can he play 3-4 DE instead of inside in a 4-3 defense? Maybe...maybe not...I'd put him alongside Jenkins as a guy they probably don't want to have to tinker with, especially since they have to already do this with Thomas. He's supposedly not that tough against the run so that makes it hard to see him as a potential DE here.

4) They won't draft players with character issues, at least I hope not. I know a lot of people like Rey Rey...but here's my definition of a guy that Little Hoodie considers a character issue; anybody who might be a "me" guy...anybody who might be a flava clown, or too hard headed to understand and accept that it's all about it being McDaniels way or the highway...somebody who is a threat to become contentious in other words. Is he a bad guy? Maybe not...but something about that reporter incident bothers me...it was creepy. But I see some Romo in this guy both the good and the bad. I think he could be all pro or he could be a wack-job. I also dislike the idea of spending a #1 on a guy who might be coming off the field on passing downs. More to the point...I think McDaniels wants guys he doesn't have to fight with. In other words anyone that looks like they might have an ego bigger than Josh's...cross 'em off the list. That takes care of Vontae Davis too.

5) They obviously won't draft a QB, OT, WR or 4-3 OLB. If Little Hoodie actually does pull off some crazy deal and draft Sanchez, I think even his fans on this board will be ready to run this guy out of town. He knows he's committed to Orton/Simms at least for this year, so any QB will be a later round guy. Forget OT of course and scratch all the receivers off the list. None are that great anyway...including Crabtree IMO. I can't possibly see him taking a receiver in round 1, if at all.

Whose left?

These are the guys in no particular order that fit the criteria and are all possible first round picks based on talent, though some will probably slide; Aaron Curry, Brian Orakpo, Tyson Jackson, Brian Cushing, Brandon Pettigrew, Clay Mathews, Knowshon Moreno, Chris Wells, Darius Butler, Donald Brown, Max Unger, Alex Mack, James Laurinaitis

Of those 13, only 3 are likely to be gone; Curry, Orakpo (maybe) and Jackson...if you believe the hype on him. Unless they truly believe that either Jackson or Raji is a true impact player, why force picking a D-line guy if he's not a difference maker? It would be a mistake despite how badly we need those guys. Of the remaining guys...none stand out as being worth the 12th pick. This tells me they're best move is probably moving down with this pick if Raji and Jackson are gone. I'd like to see them move it for a 2nd and maybe a 4th now and a #1 next year. Assuming they might move down to about 21-26 spots to the 33-38 area they could still possibly grab somebody off that list, though only 4 defenders remain, and two of those, Cushing and Mathews…reportedly failed steroid tests.

From what I've seen, Laurinaitis has slipped a bit. Some say he's there in the 2nd round. I don't believe it but who cares anyway? Why risk it? This guy’s won every award you can win for linebackers, he's very solid in pass coverage meaning he'd be an every down ILB for us, and while not the Butkus hitter type that Rey Rey is...he's a solid tackler and he picked off 5 passes last year. Basically he does it all...this kid has some Spielman in him. I'd take Laurinaitis since there are more 3-4 OLB types (English) available later. He'd be a very nice upgrade for us in the middle, a vocal leader and a guy who will play every down. With the extra #2 we could hopefully get Brace for the NT spot and still have another 2 to take a safety or maybe even somebody like Mack if he's still around.

Here's how we could wind up in rounds 1-3...

18- Laurinaitis
33-38- Brace
48- Mack
84- English

3 #1 picks in 2010...then we fill the NT spot with a cheaper, more natural nose guy than Raji, fill two LB spots and pick up a O-line starter for 2010 as well.

JL is the type of player Denver HAS ALWAYS drafted in the past. I want a physical nasty player
player that brings emotion and fires up his teammates. If JL is a Bronco I hope for the best with him. I won't jump up and down either.

Broncoman13
04-21-2009, 10:23 AM
I think you are waaaay overplaying the character concerns on Rey. And he is not a "me" guy at all. He's just a bit wild. The key difference between Laurenitis and Rey is that Rey's strength is against the run. Thats L's weakness. L needs a good line in front of him to protect him. He won't get that here, at least for a while. L's strength is coverage. I don't think that's the Broncos' biggest weakness. Nolan can use many of the pieces he's got in the secondary and with the existing LB core to provide adequate coverage. What he doesn't have is the pieces to create a pass rush and shut down the run. That should be the focus of this draft. Rey suits that to a tee. That's why I say if we can walk away with Tyson, Rey and Chung, we just got a whole lot better against the run and with improving the pass rush.

I wouldn't say Laurinaitis' weakness is against the run. He may not play with as much intensity as Maualuga vs the run, but it's not a weakness either. Rey is a more flashy player, but only a two down player at this point. JL starts from day one, is a team captain/vocal leader very early on and stays on the field. Instincts, smarts, leadership, all advantage JL.

footstepsfrom#27
04-21-2009, 10:25 AM
I think you are waaaay overplaying the character concerns on Rey. And he is not a "me" guy at all. He's just a bit wild.
Yeah...I hear ya...BUT:

A lot of guys who are "just a bit wild" when they're broke, turn into something else with millions in their pocket. I have an uneasy feeling about the guy...and his thing with the female reporter was just weird. Maybe it's nothing...maybe it's not. In any case...he strikes me as a guy who might have problems with McDaniels for some reason. I have a feeling McHoodie is going to have very little patience with anyone who doesn't ask how high when he says jump. Like I said...I see something of Romo in this guy...I could be wrong.
The key difference between Laurenitis and Rey is that Rey's strength is against the run. Thats L's weakness. L needs a good line in front of him to protect him. He won't get that here, at least for a while. L's strength is coverage. I don't think that's the Broncos' biggest weakness.
It might not be their biggest weakness, but if Rey Rey has to leave the field on passing downs, is he worth a #1 pick? What happens if they play the Colts? I just think the OSU kid is a better all around player even if he's not as high profile or flashy.

Rohirrim
04-21-2009, 10:35 AM
Yeah...I hear ya...BUT:

A lot of guys who are "just a bit wild" when they're broke, turn into something else with millions in their pocket. I have an uneasy feeling about the guy...and his thing with the female reporter was just weird. Maybe it's nothing...maybe it's not. In any case...he strikes me as a guy who might have problems with McDaniels for some reason. I have a feeling McHoodie is going to have very little patience with anyone who doesn't ask how high when he says jump. Like I said...I see something of Romo in this guy...I could be wrong.

It might not be their biggest weakness, but if Rey Rey has to leave the field on passing downs, is he worth a #1 pick? What happens if they play the Colts? I just think the OSU kid is a better all around player even if he's not as high profile or flashy.


I don't know the exact numbers. I suppose I could look them up. But just from watching games it seemed to me that Rey was pretty good at getting his share of INTs. A lot of that has to do with supplying the pass rush, which has been Denver's biggest issue for years. I really doubt Rey is confined to being just a two down LB.

BroncoBuff
04-21-2009, 10:43 AM
Laurinitis is vastly overrated imo ... he really sucked in the BCS game a year ago, that might've been why he returned for his senior year.

If we're going away from D-Line like your premise says, I'll go with his teammate and take Malcolm Jenkins as a free safety. Outside of our D-Line, safety is still the weakest spot on the roster. And Jenkins has great instincts and he can really hit .... I could see Barrett and Jenkins pairing as Broncos safeties for a long time.


Besides, LB is not a REAL position of need here. Just look at the roster, LB is not that bad.

socalorado
04-21-2009, 10:44 AM
I wouldn't say Laurinaitis' weakness is against the run. He may not play with as much intensity as Maualuga vs the run, but it's not a weakness either. Rey is a more flashy player, but only a two down player at this point. JL starts from day one, is a team captain/vocal leader very early on and stays on the field. Instincts, smarts, leadership, all advantage JL.

JL has a HUGE problem against the run. All of his tackles are downfield. He gets washed outta way too many plays, and to his credit doesnt give up on the play, but has to assist and track downfield to make a play on the opponent.
JL however will be a very solid WILL in a 4-3 eventually in the NFL. To me just cant play ILB in a 3-4/4-3..

telluride
04-21-2009, 10:45 AM
What's with this "Little Hoodie" stuff? Is it supposed to be clever? Or biting? Just seems juvenile, frankly.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-21-2009, 10:59 AM
I don't know the exact numbers. I suppose I could look them up. But just from watching games it seemed to me that Rey was pretty good at getting his share of INTs. A lot of that has to do with supplying the pass rush, which has been Denver's biggest issue for years. I really doubt Rey is confined to being just a two down LB.

My prediction:

if Rey is drafted by the Broncos, the fans will LOVE this guy. He's a pocket explosion.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-21-2009, 10:59 AM
What's with this "Little Hoodie" stuff? Is it supposed to be clever? Or biting? Just seems juvenile, frankly.

welcome to the mane

Inkana7
04-21-2009, 11:03 AM
Laurinitis ****ing sucks. All he does is jump on piles.

BroncoBuff
04-21-2009, 11:04 AM
Davis, Larsen, DJ, Woodyard, Haggans = 5 ILBs, 4 surefire keepers

Reid, Dumervil, Moss, Green, Boss, Crowder = 6 OLBs, 3 surefire keepers (and Green is a special team ace)

On the other hand, D-Line is empty ... Marcus Thomas has more NFL starts than all the other D-Linemen combined.

Gcver2ver3
04-21-2009, 11:06 AM
Davis, Larsen, DJ, Woodyard, Haggans = 5 ILBs, 4 surefire keepers

Reid, Dumervil, Moss, Green, Boss, Crowder = 6 OLBs, 3 surefire keepers (and Green is a special team ace)

On the other hand, D-Line is empty ... Marcus Thomas has more NFL starts than all the other D-Linemen combined.

very good observations...

i think we're clearly going D-line this draft...

but i still expect another pass rusher added to the mix...

Rohirrim
04-21-2009, 11:07 AM
Davis, Larsen, DJ, Woodyard, Haggans = 5 ILBs, 4 surefire keepers
Reid, Dumervil, Moss, Green, Boss, Crowder = 6 OLBs, 3 surefire keepers (and Green is a special team ace)

On the other hand, D-Line is empty ... Marcus Thomas has more NFL starts than all the other D-Linemen combined.

Yeah, but there aren't a whole lot of sure fire D linemen in this draft. Even Tyson is considered more of a 3/4 DE, two gap, run stuffer type (which is fine by me). There are effort questions about Raji, which is the one question you don't want to have about a NT. Then, there are a bunch who are going to be OLB in a 3/4 led by Brown. The two best D lineman in this draft (to me) are Peria and Ayers, and they're both 4-3 DEs! I suggest we beef up that front three to stop the run later in the draft (Dorrell Scott?) and get the pass rush from the outside. We already have Doom who is a proven pass rusher and could play one of the OLB spots or move up on the line. That leaves getting a pass rusher from the middle. Is there anybody in this draft better at that than Rey?

gyldenlove
04-21-2009, 11:10 AM
We need DL like Chiefs fans need some sense beaten into them.

Essentially we should come out of day 1 with at least two DL players. If we can't get one at 12, which seems likely, then we have to get players with 18 and 48 or the picks we trade to get.

BroncoBuff
04-21-2009, 11:19 AM
Yeah, but there aren't a whole lot of sure fire D linemen in this draft. Even Tyson is considered more of a 3/4 DE, two gap, run stuffer type (which is fine by me).
Fine by me too ... that's what I think we need most. A stout, run-stopping 3-4 DE. Tyson Jackson reminds people of Richard Seymour, which wuld be perfect. I hope he's there at 12 ... Doom and DJ and WW and the 3-4 system in general will generate pressure from new places that we haven't seen in the past.


I suggest we beef up that front three to stop the run later in the draft (Dorrell Scott?) and get the pass rush from the outside. We already have Doom who is a proven pass rusher and could play one of the OLB spots or move up on the line. That leaves getting a pass rusher from the middle. Is there anybody in this draft better at that than Rey?

Drafting Rey Rey means we'll be forced to keep 5 ILBs, because we're definitely not gonna cut Andra Davis, Spencer Larsen, DJ Williams or Wesley Woodyard.

I love Dorrell Scott in the 4th or 5th round, and I like Ron Brace at 48. That's two NTs, plus T-JAx and another 3-4 DE, plus Malcolm Jenkins or maybe William Moore at safety ... we need to go defense, defense, defense.

baja
04-21-2009, 11:24 AM
33-38- Brace
48- Mack
84- English

3 #1 picks in 2010...then we fill the NT spot with a cheaper, more natural nose guy than Raji, fill two LB spots and pick up a O-line starter for 2010 as well.

I like this idea and I would use 18 in a trade for a player that can help us now.

Also it would to make sense to trade the 12 pick for a 1 next year and a player now and keep the 18.

Rohirrim
04-21-2009, 11:47 AM
Fine by me too ... that's what I think we need most. A stout, run-stopping 3-4 DE. Tyson Jackson reminds people of Richard Seymour, which wuld be perfect. I hope he's there at 12 ... Doom and DJ and WW and the 3-4 system in general will generate pressure from new places that we haven't seen in the past.




Drafting Rey Rey means we'll be forced to keep 5 ILBs, because we're definitely not gonna cut Andra Davis, Spencer Larsen, DJ Williams or Wesley Woodyard.

I love Dorrell Scott in the 4th or 5th round, and I like Ron Brace at 48. That's two NTs, plus T-JAx and another 3-4 DE, plus Malcolm Jenkins or maybe William Moore at safety ... we need to go defense, defense, defense.

To me, we are not hurting as bad as some on here might think. IMO, Carlton Powell and K. Peterson are going to do a good job. I'm not on board with the idea of reaching for a NT (Raji) when the guy you really want will be there next year (Cody). I haven't given up on Marcus Thomas either. Then, there is the secret weapon: McChesney! ;D I think having Nolan here will give these guys new life.

My theory would be to get the three guys who will stop the bleeding in your worst area: Rush defense. It's basic triage. First stop the bleeding. To me, that would be Tyson Jackson, Rey and Patrick Chung. The added bonus with Rey is that he also is a great blitzer. The added bonus with Chung is he makes people pay on the short routes over the middle.

As far as which LBs would play where if Rey came in I'm sure Nolan would be about the best guy you could have to leave that decision to.

montrose
04-21-2009, 11:49 AM
To answer the question of the thread title. It might be Malcolm Jenkins.

bowtown
04-21-2009, 11:50 AM
It would be a mistake despite how badly we need those guys. Of the remaining guys...none stand out as being worth the 12th pick. This tells me they're best move is probably moving down with this pick if Raji and Jackson are gone.

If none of them are worth the first pick then who in the world is going to trade up for them? The difference between the players at 12 and at 30 is negligable this year and I just don't see any names left at 12 that teams will be jumping over each other to get at. People so casually state that we should trade down, and then get all upset when we don't, but in actuallity, trading down, especially in this draft is going to be a nearly impossible thing to do.

PRBronco
04-21-2009, 12:07 PM
My prediction:

if Rey is drafted by the Broncos, the fans will LOVE this guy. He's a pocket explosion.

I'm sorry but that expression amuses me to no end.

Also, you're right, I don't really want them to draft Rey, for all the usual reasons, but it'll be hard not to like him if we do.

want2bAbronco2
04-21-2009, 12:21 PM
No way we will take 3 1st rnd picks next year. Dont think anyone has ever had 3 1st, have they? I still say we go with Dline/LB/RB/DB with first 2 picks. I dont mind JL but wont jump for joy. I would rather Jenkins at 12 and Ray at 18. We need a big hard hitting force in the middle, we have lacked that for a few years now.

lookin' glass
04-21-2009, 01:41 PM
I think the Jets had 3 or 4 1st rd. picks the year they took Shaun Ellis.

tsiguy96
04-21-2009, 01:51 PM
if we dont draft rey rey, it sure will be fun watching him play in SD....

BroncoBuff
04-21-2009, 01:53 PM
BPA not a D-Linemen: Malcolm Jenkins as a safety

We need safeties BADLY ... but we already have decent LBs.


I'm starting a thread on the LB situation now ....

DrFate
04-21-2009, 01:54 PM
What's with this "Little Hoodie" stuff? Is it supposed to be clever? Or biting? Just seems juvenile, frankly.

The correct designation is 'Hoodie Jr.'...

SonOfLe-loLang
04-21-2009, 02:10 PM
I think the Jets had 3 or 4 1st rd. picks the year they took Shaun Ellis.

Ellis, Pennington, John Abraham, Anthony Becht were their 4 i believe

footstepsfrom#27
04-21-2009, 02:49 PM
What's with this "Little Hoodie" stuff? Is it supposed to be clever? Or biting? Just seems juvenile, frankly.
Then you should have enjoyed it.

chaz
04-21-2009, 03:07 PM
Yeah, but there aren't a whole lot of sure fire D linemen in this draft. Even Tyson is considered more of a 3/4 DE, two gap, run stuffer type (which is fine by me). There are effort questions about Raji, which is the one question you don't want to have about a NT. Then, there are a bunch who are going to be OLB in a 3/4 led by Brown. The two best D lineman in this draft (to me) are Peria and Ayers, and they're both 4-3 DEs! I suggest we beef up that front three to stop the run later in the draft (Dorrell Scott?) and get the pass rush from the outside. We already have Doom who is a proven pass rusher and could play one of the OLB spots or move up on the line. That leaves getting a pass rusher from the middle. Is there anybody in this draft better at that than Rey?

I miss your first point completely, as Tyson is a protoype 5-technique which is EXACTLY what we need.

However your final point is huge and exactly right, Rey can bring the house up the middle and make QBs think quick. I don't buy him as only a two down guy....he's one hell of a blitzer on passing downs.

footstepsfrom#27
04-21-2009, 03:19 PM
BPA not a D-Linemen: Malcolm Jenkins as a safety

We need safeties BADLY ... but we already have decent LBs.
Yeah...who?

Our best OLB is a guy who won't start and when he plays he'll be on the inside not the outside. Our best starter has never played in a 3-4 and has already shown he's suited mainly for the weak side, where he won't be playing... and the key rush-side LB position is manned by a guy people have been bagging on for two years for an inability to rush the passer against better OT's...that's while he was playing his natural position at LDE...not having to line up standing up. Most argued before McOpie's arrival that he couldn't play LB at all.

Our best hope is a Brownco.

I'm afraid I don't share your optimism.

Here's the main problem...the draft probably won't give us a D-line guy who can make an impact. It's just not that good for those guys. Even the top of the draft is iffy on D-linemen. The preponderance of 3-4 LB's later probably limits our choices in the first round to ILB, Safety or RB. Jenkins? He' supposed to be gone ahead of us. Are you really willing to trade up for a guy with marginal speed, average size and somebody we have to move to another position? I don't think he's that good. If we're moving up why not take Jackson since he's at least a D-line fit? I'd rather move down, take the best or 2nd best ILB (depending on your POV) and pick up more picks for a 2010 run at Bradford.

DrFate
04-21-2009, 03:59 PM
I'm afraid I don't share your optimism.


The truth is this: with the exception of reciever and OT positions, Hoodie Jr. could throw a dart at a Kiper/McShay compilation and improve this team. A round 1 player at any other position should be able to start from day one.

Rohirrim
04-21-2009, 04:30 PM
I miss your first point completely, as Tyson is a protoype 5-technique which is EXACTLY what we need.

However your final point is huge and exactly right, Rey can bring the house up the middle and make QBs think quick. I don't buy him as only a two down guy....he's one hell of a blitzer on passing downs.

My first point is that Tyson is not a pass rusher, which is what a lot of teams value most highly in a DE. But, like I said, he's perfect for what the Broncos need; A run stuffing two gapper who can jam his side of the line, take up two guys and let the rush do its work. Now, if we can just find the rush component. Oh yeah. Rey. ;D

chaz
04-21-2009, 05:13 PM
My first point is that Tyson is not a pass rusher, which is what a lot of teams value most highly in a DE. But, like I said, he's perfect for what the Broncos need; A run stuffing two gapper who can jam his side of the line, take up two guys and let the rush do its work. Now, if we can just find the rush component. Oh yeah. Rey. ;D

Gotchya! :thumbsup:

Dedhed
04-21-2009, 05:54 PM
The only thing worse than Laurinitis in the 1st would be Laurinitis in a 3-4.

BroncoBuff
04-21-2009, 05:56 PM
Can't stand Laurinitis ...

footstepsfrom#27
04-21-2009, 05:58 PM
My first point is that Tyson is not a pass rusher, which is what a lot of teams value most highly in a DE. But, like I said, he's perfect for what the Broncos need; A run stuffing two gapper who can jam his side of the line, take up two guys and let the rush do its work. Now, if we can just find the rush component. Oh yeah. Rey. ;D
How many of those type guys populate the league and were taken well below the first round? I just can't see the value with Jackson. If Raji were a true NT I'd trade up for him, but since he's not...who is there that we really can't live without? For all we know Carlton Powell and Thomas provide just as much.

Hamrob
04-21-2009, 07:02 PM
I think little hoodie will try to make the first day exciting. He'll probably trade up for somebody like Sanchez.

Why...because after the Cutler thing...he is in a corner. He has to appease the fans and also (like Mayock says) find an excuse. My guess for our 2 first round selections

Sanchez
Rey Rey

If needed....Rey could hit the bench on passing downs while WW played on passing downs. They'd work it out. By the way....who the hell did NE ever have with speed at the LB position? O.k. Mayo...last year...who else?

They seemed to have done pretty good with guys who you wouldn't normally think could cover the pass. Rey-Rey will be just fine.

Crushaholic
04-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Bring in the Son of Animal...:thumbs:

lex
04-22-2009, 01:51 AM
Yeah...who?

Our best OLB is a guy who won't start and when he plays he'll be on the inside not the outside. Our best starter has never played in a 3-4 and has already shown he's suited mainly for the weak side, where he won't be playing... and the key rush-side LB position is manned by a guy people have been bagging on for two years for an inability to rush the passer against better OT's...that's while he was playing his natural position at LDE...not having to line up standing up. Most argued before McOpie's arrival that he couldn't play LB at all.

Our best hope is a Brownco.

I'm afraid I don't share your optimism.

Here's the main problem...the draft probably won't give us a D-line guy who can make an impact. It's just not that good for those guys. Even the top of the draft is iffy on D-linemen. The preponderance of 3-4 LB's later probably limits our choices in the first round to ILB, Safety or RB. Jenkins? He' supposed to be gone ahead of us. Are you really willing to trade up for a guy with marginal speed, average size and somebody we have to move to another position? I don't think he's that good. If we're moving up why not take Jackson since he's at least a D-line fit? I'd rather move down, take the best or 2nd best ILB (depending on your POV) and pick up more picks for a 2010 run at Bradford.

Success on 3rd downs is huge in the NFL and for that reason the 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 5 cant be dismissed. As much as people like to kvetch about our LBs last year, our lack of success on 3rd downs was a huge part of our struggles. No one was saying our talent was the greatest but it was also undermined by Slowik. Plus, Engelberger and Webster are gone.