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View Full Version : Who was the worse DC in the Shanahan era?


baja
04-21-2009, 08:12 AM
And why?

Poll coming....

MileHighMagic
04-21-2009, 08:16 AM
Slowick -- Why? He was in charge of the worst Broncos defense that I have ever witnessed.

shovelpass#30
04-21-2009, 08:20 AM
Slowik. No question. Last season's capitulations were unforgivable.

Beantown Bronco
04-21-2009, 08:21 AM
If Bates was truly the one responsible for the Moss and Crowder selections, then I'd go with him. His scheme wasn't right from the start and the complete switch they had to make to try to run it really screwed them.

Slowik was by no means a great DC, but I don't think anyone could've been successful given (1) the schematic mess that had to be cleaned up after Bates got neutered and (2) the obvious lack of talent he was given to work with (all 7 "starters" that were let go in the last few months are all still unemployed).

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-21-2009, 08:22 AM
Slowick. The guy is a good DBs coach, and a terrible DC.

dbfan21
04-21-2009, 08:28 AM
I knew the second he was promoted to the offical DC, we were in big trouble. I have been watching Bronco football for over 20 years and that (2008) was the worst D I can recall.

TheDave
04-21-2009, 08:30 AM
Slowick and Bates... Hell, every defensive move post Coyer was a trainwreck.

Kaylore
04-21-2009, 08:36 AM
I'm still waiting for Alec and Popps to admit they were wrong about Coyer.

Bates is actually a good coordinator. He's had success before. But we didn't have the players to run his defense and he's not a great GM.

It's obviously Slowick. Promoted because people like him and not because of his skills, Slowick turned this defense into one of the worst ever. And its the same thing he's done every time he's been a coordinator. His philosophies are horrible and his defenses set franchise records for "worst" in several categories everywhere he goes. Losing Slowick alone made us a better team.

Rohirrim
04-21-2009, 08:40 AM
Slowick, hands down. Last year's collapse made NFL history.

worm
04-21-2009, 08:46 AM
Greg Robinson might not even get a vote in this poll....which is amazing seeing as how he would have gotten the majority about 5 years ago.

Just shows you how bad Slowick and Bates really were.

baja
04-21-2009, 08:51 AM
Greg Robinson might not even get a vote in this poll....which is amazing seeing as how he would have gotten the majority about 5 years ago.

Just shows you how bad Slowick and Bates really were.

LOL that is what I wanted to see when I made the poll, if anyone would vote for Greg Robinson. Oh how we all hated him back then.On the DPO it was epic. I think it was even a part of the reason TJ created this site ??,

Yet with the exception of Coyer all have been worse.

telluride
04-21-2009, 08:56 AM
The person most responsible for the worst defense in the Shanahan era is Shanahan.

DrFate
04-21-2009, 08:56 AM
At least spell Robinson's name right. He did win two super bowls as the DC...

TheChamp24
04-21-2009, 08:58 AM
Well, saying Robinson wasn't that bad is like polishing a turd and saying its a diamond. Its still a turd.
Robinson had the most talent on defense of all of them IMO and had the luxury of a more balanced offense attack.
There is a reason why he doesn't have a NFL job right now.

Beantown Bronco
04-21-2009, 08:58 AM
At least spell Robinson's name right. He did win two super bowls as the DC...

Pretty funny. Of the five names listed on the poll, only two are spelled right.

The Joker
04-21-2009, 09:03 AM
Slowick.

I actually felt ashamed watching us play at times last year, something that I never felt before. Under Bates we had some awful displays, and generally it wasn't pretty, but the consistency at which we sucked last year was a whole new level.

All bar maybe 4 or 5 games under Slowick our defense was a complete and utter disgrace.

colonelbeef
04-21-2009, 09:16 AM
Pretty funny. Of the five names listed on the poll, only two are spelled right.

and OP was one of the most vocal for letting Cutler go....



hmm

Gcver2ver3
04-21-2009, 09:35 AM
Anyone voting for someone OTHER than Slowick is missing it...

It's Slowick and it's not even close...

Rhodes and Bates were both nightmares but they have had success in this league as DCs...but they weren't good at adjusting their schemes to match our players at the time...Coyer and Robinson both actually had success with Denver at times, but O-coordinators soon figured them out...

Slowick quite frankly just didn't have any idea what he was doing...

People want to excuse Slowick because of the players we had, but the players was only half the problem...I have never seen a scheme that put players in a position to make plays SO FEW TIMES...

Last year's defense was WITHOUT QUESTION, the worst defense in Broncos history...Slowick had to be held accountable for that...

TheReverend
04-21-2009, 09:39 AM
Pretty funny. Of the five names listed on the poll, only two are spelled right.

Consider the source.

Natedogg
04-21-2009, 09:59 AM
Shanny's undoing was Rhodes's hiring.

He tried to completely change the personnel of the D, failed, and put the Defensive side of the team into a hole it never climbed out of.

Not saying he's a bad coach. But the instability on D was what was Shanny's greatest flaw. That instability started with the hiring of Rhodes.

AND OF COURSE I VOTED FOR SLO DICK

cousinal11
04-21-2009, 10:04 AM
Slowick.

3 & 20 or so against Miami late in the game. Pennington can't even throw it 20 yards, so we blitz (3rd blitz called in 8 weeks), and the rest is history.

But, it was Jay's fault.

Rock Chalk
04-21-2009, 10:05 AM
I'm still waiting for Alec and Popps to admit they were wrong about Coyer.

Bates is actually a good coordinator. He's had success before. But we didn't have the players to run his defense and he's not a great GM.

It's obviously Slowick. Promoted because people like him and not because of his skills, Slowick turned this defense into one of the worst ever. And its the same thing he's done every time he's been a coordinator. His philosophies are horrible and his defenses set franchise records for "worst" in several categories everywhere he goes. Losing Slowick alone made us a better team.

Wrong? What exactly were we wrong about?

Coyer was the best DC of that bunch, but that doesnt mean we were wrong about him and his lack of ability to adjust to the changing offenses he faced. By no means was he a horrible DC, but he also certainly had his flaws. He had more talent than any of the DCs save Robinson to work with but once he was figured out, Denver was beaten every time.

He was excellent in the first half of the season, but was epic fail down the stretch of every season.

Was that his fault? I dont know. I know that when you get beat on the same out pattern because you have your CB playing 7 yards off every time over and over and over again and you dont change at any point, its madness. MADNESS i tell you.

That being said, I would rather have Coyer than Slowik or Bates. But Jesus it doesnt take a genius to figure that out. With that in mind, there are about 12 other guys Id rather have than Coyer and we got one of them now (though he's only marginally better than Coyer IMO).

Further, do you think Bates or even Slowik for that matter, would have had more success than they did if they had Coyer's players?

TheReverend
04-21-2009, 10:05 AM
Shanny's undoing was Rhodes's hiring.

He tried to completely change the personnel of the D, failed, and put the Defensive side of the team into a hole it never climbed out of.

Not saying he's a bad coach. But the instability on D was what was Shanny's greatest flaw. That instability started with the hiring of Rhodes.

AND OF COURSE I VOTED FOR SLO DICK

Shanahan's average defensive ranking is 11... as an offensive minded coach... including last year's debacle.

The only HC in recent times that touches that ranking is Bill Cowher who spent the majority of his career working with one of the most brilliant defensive minds in NFL history.

baja
04-21-2009, 10:10 AM
Consider the source.

Well if it ain't the resident judge.

Is there a word for people that trash others in order to not feel quite so pathetic about themselves Professor?

bombquixote
04-21-2009, 10:12 AM
Well between Slowick and Slowick, I'm gonna go with....Slowick.

baja
04-21-2009, 10:15 AM
Wrong? What exactly were we wrong about?

Coyer was the best DC of that bunch, but that doesnt mean we were wrong about him and his lack of ability to adjust to the changing offenses he faced. By no means was he a horrible DC, but he also certainly had his flaws. He had more talent than any of the DCs save Robinson to work with but once he was figured out, Denver was beaten every time.

He was excellent in the first half of the season, but was epic fail down the stretch of every season.

Was that his fault? I dont know. <b>I know that when you get beat on the same out pattern because you have your CB playing 7 yards off every time over and over and over again and you dont change at any point, its madness. MADNESS i tell you.</b>

That being said, I would rather have Coyer than Slowik or Bates. But Jesus it doesnt take a genius to figure that out. With that in mind, there are about 12 other guys Id rather have than Coyer and we got one of them now (though he's only marginally better than Coyer IMO).

Further, do you think Bates or even Slowik for that matter, would have had more success than they did if they had Coyer's players?

That's the painful part, we should have changed up that D in the AFCC game. What was Big Ben's QB rating that day anyway?

sisterhellfyre
04-21-2009, 10:24 AM
Shanny's undoing was Rhodes's hiring.

I voted for Ray Rhodes too. With Slowik we knew in advance (based on his track record in Green Bay) that his abilities were questionable at best. With Bates we knew as he took over that the players weren't there to fit the scheme he wanted to run. That was one of the most glaring recent examples of mismatched players and coaches. It would be right up there with the Bears or Lions adopting the run-&-shoot offense.

When Shanahan hired Rhodes, he came in with a big resume for putting together fire-breathing defenses. He SO did not live up to that reputation! His playcalls and gameplans were unimaginative and inflexible. We could also say about Slowik, but probably not about Bates because he never had a chance from the start. But beyond even Slowik and Bates, Rhodes checked out (mentally, at least) and just mailed it in later when it became clear things were NOT going his way. Bates and Slowik at least hung in there and kept trying, even if their efforts amounted only to feeble thrashing.

TheReverend
04-21-2009, 10:51 AM
Well if it ain't the resident judge.

Is there a word for people that trash others in order to not feel quite so pathetic about themselves Professor?

I think the word is "baja". Maybe we should just ask Meck...?

Holier than thou and world class ass-hat baja going after resident good-guy Meck:

Aren't you the guy that told me to not take this internet business too serious you fuuuning phony. You should see the rep comments I get when I point out to you what a contrived individual you are. Lets see, first you are the #1 Bronco fan with your 100,000 dollar bus than you find out you even with the shiny bus and buying all the beer you can't buy friends at tailgate parties so you stomp off and buy a ranch and become a cowboy. Bet the real cowboys don't like you either do they. I love it when I piss you off you phony. Hey I know, want to pay me to leave too. ha ha ha. Patch had your number.

baja
04-21-2009, 10:54 AM
I think the word is "baja". Maybe we should just ask Meck...?

Holier than thou and world class ass-hat baja going after resident good-guy Meck:

Your employer must value you highly for that hour a day you manage to work.

TheReverend
04-21-2009, 11:01 AM
Your employer must value you highly for that hour a day you manage to work.

Not nearly as much as your employer values your oustanding contributions to society:

http://www.germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50290141/Red_Kidney_Beans.jpg

...but somehow I get by... :rofl:

Kaylore
04-21-2009, 11:03 AM
Further, do you think Bates or even Slowik for that matter, would have had more success than they did if they had Coyer's players?

Hilarious! Absolutely not. I would bet on it. Coyer basically had the same players and still managed a decent defense even when Wilson left and the safeties lost their speed. Bates tried to add guys to fit his system and it didn't happen. And Slowick, well Slowick has sucked everywhere he's been. Under the Slowick the defense was worse than it was under Bates. The only one you could make an argument for is Bates, and Bates runs a different system so technically the answer there is also "no, Bates would not have run a better defense."

Just admit you and Popps were as wrong as wrong can be about Coyer and once he left town our defense went to crap. Imagine if Coyer had a good defensive line to work with and not Mario Fatafehi or the Browncos. Even with those guys we were top five against the run every year and top ten in scoring defense.

TheReverend
04-21-2009, 11:06 AM
Hilarious! Absolutely not. I would bet on it. Coyer basically had the same players and still managed a decent defense even when Wilson left and the safeties lost their speed. Bates tried to add guys to fit his system and it didn't happen. And Slowick, well Slowick has sucked everywhere he's been. Under the Slowick the defense was worse than it was under Bates. The only one you could make an argument for is Bates, and Bates runs a different system so technically the answer there is also "no, Bates would not have run a better defense."

Just admit you and Popps were as wrong as wrong can be about Coyer and once he left town our defense went to crap. Imagine if Coyer had a good defensive line to work with and not Mario Fatafehi or the Browncos. Even with those guys we were top five against the run every year and top ten in scoring defense.

The bolded statement is certainly debatable. It was a record breaking defense to start the year and as Al wore on, it got exponentially worse.

I love Jim Bates and his contributions to the game, but I WILL fault him for the failed DJ experiment. I thought it was a great idea too, but throwing any available resource at a proven quantity for Mike and his system probably would've been a success.

baja
04-21-2009, 11:10 AM
Not nearly as much as your employer values your oustanding contributions to society:

http://www.germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50290141/Red_Kidney_Beans.jpg

...but somehow I get by... :rofl:


Didn't you know I rob banks, I don't have an employer.

But I'm out of this pissing match the rest of the board deserves a break. see ya....

Beantown Bronco
04-21-2009, 11:11 AM
When Shanahan hired Rhodes, he came in with a big resume for putting together fire-breathing defenses. He SO did not live up to that reputation! His playcalls and gameplans were unimaginative and inflexible.

I don't know about that part. If I'm remembering correctly, he came up with the "rush two DLinemen" scheme, where Ian Gold was somehow one of the DLinemen. I found that alignment to be extremely imaginative. Stupid and completely ineffective, but imaginative.

baja
04-21-2009, 11:15 AM
Hilarious! Absolutely not. I would bet on it. Coyer basically had the same players and still managed a decent defense even when Wilson left and the safeties lost their speed. Bates tried to add guys to fit his system and it didn't happen. And Slowick, well Slowick has sucked everywhere he's been. Under the Slowick the defense was worse than it was under Bates. The only one you could make an argument for is Bates, and Bates runs a different system so technically the answer there is also "no, Bates would not have run a better defense."

Just admit you and Popps were as wrong as wrong can be about Coyer and once he left town our defense went to crap. Imagine if Coyer had a good defensive line to work with and not Mario Fatafehi or the Browncos. Even with those guys we were top five against the run every year and top ten in scoring defense.

Is Coyer the DC in Miami? Where is Rhodes now (Seattle?) Robinson is coaching in college. Bates is out of football again? Where is Slowick?

TheReverend
04-21-2009, 11:21 AM
Is Coyer the DC in Miami? Where is Rhodes now (Seattle?) Robinson is coaching in college. Bates is out of football again? Where is Slowick?

Wrong, wrong and wrong...

Coyer is the DC in Indy, and Bates is the DC in Tampa...

Edit: Forgot to add that Rhodes is with the Texans.

Beantown Bronco
04-21-2009, 11:22 AM
Under the Slowick the defense was worse than it was under Bates.

Depends on which time period you are looking at. 1st half of 2007 under Bates was at least debatably worse than the 2nd half of that year, when Slowik took over.

If you are comparing 2007 to 2008, then you have to acknowledge that Bates had a healthy Champ and John Lynch...which Slowik didn't have.

DenverBrit
04-21-2009, 11:26 AM
Rhodes.....huge disappointment.

Bates......WTF??

Slowick........Shanny killer!!

Coyer.......good guy, ok DC.

Robinson.......Attack, attack, attack, prevent. = SB wins

Looking back at the DCs, is it any wonder the Broncos Defensive drafts were so bad?

Give McD credit, he's a young, rookie HC yet he brought in Nolan, a former HC as his DC.
With Nolan and the rest of the D coaches, it looks like the best Broncos Defensive staff in more than a decade. :thumbsup:

But then again, I thought Rhodes was going to be the answer.

Kaylore
04-21-2009, 04:25 PM
Is Coyer the DC in Miami? Where is Rhodes now (Seattle?) Robinson is coaching in college. Bates is out of football again? Where is Slowick?

Bates is the DC in Tampa. Slowick is the positions coach in Detroit.

Florida_Bronco
04-21-2009, 04:41 PM
If Bates was truly the one responsible for the Moss and Crowder selections, then I'd go with him. His scheme wasn't right from the start and the complete switch they had to make to try to run it really screwed them. Crowder and Moss were perfect fits for Bates' scheme and the whole reason they were selected. What caused their downfall was not replacing Jacob Burney with a decent DL coach. Even then, Crowder had a good rookie year and Moss was showing flashes before he broke his leg. Also, you had a huge fall off with Ian Gold in 07, DJ had to learn his 3rd position in 4 years, Lynch got hurt...etc etc.

On top of all that, we scrapped his scheme midseason and turned it over to Slowik. We had no patience with Bates and it cost us, big time. Bates had proven himself in Miami and Green Bay. Had we given him the time to implement his scheme and proper position coaches, he would have done just fine here.


Slowik was by no means a great DC, but I don't think anyone could've been successful given (1) the schematic mess that had to be cleaned up after Bates got neutered and (2) the obvious lack of talent he was given to work with (all 7 "starters" that were let go in the last few months are all still unemployed). Slowik, unlike Bates, has failed everywhere he's been.

DomCasual
04-21-2009, 04:57 PM
I went against the grain and chose Bates. It's scary how bad the last two have been.

I just remember having to switch the entire system on a Bye week the year Bates was here. Maybe that came from Shanahan - who knows? But that was a cluster.

But the correct answer actually involves a rusty fork in my eye. That's the result of watching the past few years of Bates and Slowik.

Ironlung
04-21-2009, 05:35 PM
Slowik ran the worst, and most embarrassing defense I've ever seen.

Corners lined up 12 yards off the LOS on 3rd and 1. nuff said. Rich Camarillo anybody? Isn't that the scrub wr's name from miami who caught like 12-15 balls against Denver last year? Miami snapped the ball and threw directly down the LOS to that POS over, and over, and over again but Slowik refused to get rid of the 12 yard cushion.

I believe that was the game that finally made Marshall step up and say something about the gawd awful scheme Slowik was runnin.

uplink
04-21-2009, 06:56 PM
Slowick should have resigned after the season to save Shannys job.