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Pony Boy
04-20-2009, 01:37 PM
Denver QB battle underway: With several inches of wet, heavy snow covering their practice fields, the Broncos held their workouts as part of their first minicamp inside their bubble, and each day the quarterbacks were watched under the keen eye of new head coach Josh McDaniels. McDaniels, who tutored Tom Brady and Matt Cassel in New England before replacing Mike Shanahan in Denver, has declared his quarterback competition wide open. While it would appear Kyle Orton is the front-runner, it was clear Sunday that Chris Simms has the stronger arm. But they appeared about equal in every other aspect. McDaniels said last week that he doesn't have a timetable for naming his starter, and he has suggested he'll select a quarterback in the draft. Asked for his assessment of the quarterback situation after just one day on the field, Pro Bowl cornerback Champ Bailey just grinned. "Right now, it's just two good-looking guys out there throwing the ball," said Bailey, who's steadily improving from offseason surgery to fix a dislocated left elbow. "I know what they've done around the league, but I've never played against them, so I really don't know much about them."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/418071/rss

Still sounds like we could draft a QB.?
Interesting that Sims has the stronger arm?
or is this a smoke screen and Orton is a lock?

footstepsfrom#27
04-20-2009, 01:39 PM
They're both better backups with roughly the same experience...tossup if it's a fair fight.

El Guapo
04-20-2009, 01:41 PM
*sigh*

Pony Boy
04-20-2009, 01:46 PM
"Right now, it's just two good-looking guys out there throwing the ball," said Bailey, who's steadily improving from offseason surgery to fix a dislocated left elbow. "I know what they've done around the league, but I've never played against them, so I really don't know much about them."

That's a nice politicly correct answer, I would like to know what Champ really thinks?

gyldenlove
04-20-2009, 02:01 PM
it was clear Sunday that Chris Simms has the stronger arm

When you have a clearly weaker arm than Chris Simms, throwing power is a concern.

BroncoMan4ever
04-20-2009, 02:02 PM
"Right now, it's just two good-looking guys out there throwing the ball," said Bailey, who's steadily improving from offseason surgery to fix a dislocated left elbow. "I know what they've done around the league, but I've never played against them, so I really don't know much about them."

That's a nice politicly correct answer, I would like to know what Champ really thinks?


probably something along the lines of "we traded a 25 year old pro bowler to let one of these guys lead us this year, wtf is wrong with McDaniels?"

cousinal11
04-20-2009, 02:02 PM
Battle?

Florida_Bronco
04-20-2009, 02:04 PM
When you have a clearly weaker arm than Chris Simms, throwing power is a concern.

Simms has a pretty decent arm.

Kaylore
04-20-2009, 02:07 PM
When you have a clearly weaker arm than Chris Simms, throwing power is a concern.

I've watched several Bears games now and this idea that Orton has a weak arm is garbage. It's above average. One of the commentators even used the term "laser" when describing one of his throws.

El Guapo
04-20-2009, 02:11 PM
So then cutler had an "ion cannon" for an arm? Or perhaps a "rail gun" of an arm?


*sigh*

footstepsfrom#27
04-20-2009, 02:17 PM
I've watched several Bears games now and this idea that Orton has a weak arm is garbage. It's above average. One of the commentators even used the term "laser" when describing one of his throws.
Was Namath drunk again?

Pony Boy
04-20-2009, 02:17 PM
I've watched several Bears games now and this idea that Orton has a weak arm is garbage. It's above average. One of the commentators even used the term "laser" when describing one of his throws.

From what I've seen, Orton has an above average arm, that's why I questioned the statment in the article that Sims clearly has the stronger arm?
If he does draft a QB lets hope it's a later round, I would like to see Bomar picked up.

Gcver2ver3
04-20-2009, 02:20 PM
When you have a clearly weaker arm than Chris Simms, throwing power is a concern.

Simms has a pretty strong arm believe it or not...

but i wouldn't buy into that report anyway...Orton's arm is NOT weak...

and you'll come to find that out soon enough...

DomCasual
04-20-2009, 02:23 PM
Was Namath drunk again?

Can I kiss you? I want to kiss you.

Gcver2ver3
04-20-2009, 02:27 PM
I just read that Chris Simms was picked off by Wesley Woodyard in practice...

WW making plays like usual...:thumbs:


-- Broncos QB Update --
Mon Apr 20, 2009 --from FFMastermind.com

The Denver Post reports Broncos QB Chris Simms took the first-team repetitions to start the final day of mini-camp Sunday morning, though it was Orton with the starters when the team ran the two-minute drill to close the two-hour practice. QB Kyle Orton threw the prettiest touchdown on a deep pass to WR Jabar Gaffney in a drill against linebackers and defensive backs. Simms was intercepted by LB Wesley Woodyard, who was playing with the starting linebackers in place of LB D.J. Williams, in a 7-on-7 drill. Both quarterbacks said it is too early especially considering each is in the early stages of learning McDaniels' offense to worry about the competition with each other. "I did some good things. I definitely messed some things up mentally, and definitely missed a few throws physically," Simms said. "So there's a lot of areas to improve on, but you expect that, really, at this time of the year."

http://www.ffmastermind.com/quickbits.php

gyldenlove
04-20-2009, 02:28 PM
I've watched several Bears games now and this idea that Orton has a weak arm is garbage. It's above average. One of the commentators even used the term "laser" when describing one of his throws.

What a commentator says is about as useful as what is written in the media guide.

Orton may not be the second coming of SOB, but he is clearly not a guy who can consistently but the ball on the money when he is going 20 or 30 yards down field. He may be able to hurl it deep when he has to, but the games I have seen with him (5 and counting) his accuracy suffers badly when he goes deep which is an indication that he lacks power and throws unnaturaly to compensate for his arm.

montrose
04-20-2009, 02:40 PM
One of the good things from this camp is that, one week before the draft, McDaniels and Xanders were able to see both of these guys first-hand running their scheme with their players. Obviously playing in shorts is a lot different than live snaps, but I feel better knowing the Broncos have watched these two in person now prior to the draft rather than projecting how they'd fit into the system. I'm not as anti-Sanchez as some are here. While I don't like the idea of moving up for him, if by some crazy circumstance he fell to #12 I wouldn't at all be upset with his selection.

Gcver2ver3
04-20-2009, 02:48 PM
One of the good things from this camp is that, one week before the draft, McDaniels and Xanders were able to see both of these guys first-hand running their scheme with their players. Obviously playing in shorts is a lot different than live snaps, but I feel better knowing the Broncos have watched these two in person now prior to the draft rather than projecting how they'd fit into the system. I'm not as anti-Sanchez as some are here. While I don't like the idea of moving up for him, if by some crazy circumstance he fell to #12 I wouldn't at all be upset with his selection.

well i would...

but still a good post...

colonelbeef
04-20-2009, 02:56 PM
Hard to believe that we are back to watching a Griese-esque performer @ QB.

cousinal11
04-20-2009, 02:56 PM
Simms has a pretty decent arm.

He does, he just takes a while to get rid of it.

supermanhr9
04-20-2009, 03:26 PM
I'm calling it right now, Champ picks off 9 passes, Dawkins 5, and WW (at ILB) 47, therefore we could bring in Jeff george as our QB, our defense is going to drag us to the SHIP!!!!

hahaha,,, sorry I couldn't resist a good WW post, secretly I'm hoping we don't draft a qb at all this year. Next year has a pretty deep QB class coming out and we have 2 first rounders there so if need be we can get any guy we want.

Talk to you later Gentleman

baja
04-20-2009, 04:45 PM
They're both better backups with roughly the same experience...tossup if it's a fair fight.

How many backups do you know that have started for 2 seasons and have a winning won / loss record?

Rock Chalk
04-20-2009, 04:50 PM
What a commentator says is about as useful as what is written in the media guide.

Orton may not be the second coming of SOB, but he is clearly not a guy who can consistently but the ball on the money when he is going 20 or 30 yards down field. He may be able to hurl it deep when he has to, but the games I have seen with him (5 and counting) his accuracy suffers badly when he goes deep which is an indication that he lacks power and throws unnaturaly to compensate for his arm.

So it seems to me then we got rid of a whining QB with the same issues and got one that wants to work hard and be here.

Win for Denver.

gyldenlove
04-20-2009, 04:53 PM
So it seems to me then we got rid of a whining QB with the same issues and got one that wants to work hard and be here.

Win for Denver.

We could have gotten Johnny the retard who would work as hard as anyone and loves Denver too, but I wouldn't call replacing a talented QB with a significantly less talented QB a win.

Where's Plummer???
04-20-2009, 05:00 PM
i say orton gets the job hands down...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrAJNQ_e8Jk&feature=related

i know its against the bears but just so ppl can get a good idea on his arm trength

Bob's your Information Minister
04-20-2009, 05:05 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l4ZZFzs7VIs/RucHGIlac6I/AAAAAAAAAbc/NAqXGwQ8paU/s400/SM1082%7ECripple-Fight-Posters.jpg

Where's Plummer???
04-20-2009, 05:07 PM
of course i just found this... i know its not in a game but i figured if ima provide evidence for orton mite-as-well do the same for simms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOiy56Xqf2I

maher_tyler
04-20-2009, 05:18 PM
All i know is that i'm not gonna be happy if we draft a QB this year!!

baja
04-20-2009, 05:23 PM
Drafting a late round QB is almost a given

BroncoMan4ever
04-20-2009, 05:35 PM
I just read that Chris Simms was picked off by Wesley Woodyard in practice...

WW making plays like usual...:thumbs:


-- Broncos QB Update --
Mon Apr 20, 2009 --from FFMastermind.com

The Denver Post reports Broncos QB Chris Simms took the first-team repetitions to start the final day of mini-camp Sunday morning, though it was Orton with the starters when the team ran the two-minute drill to close the two-hour practice. QB Kyle Orton threw the prettiest touchdown on a deep pass to WR Jabar Gaffney in a drill against linebackers and defensive backs. Simms was intercepted by LB Wesley Woodyard, who was playing with the starting linebackers in place of LB D.J. Williams, in a 7-on-7 drill. Both quarterbacks said it is too early especially considering each is in the early stages of learning McDaniels' offense to worry about the competition with each other. "I did some good things. I definitely messed some things up mentally, and definitely missed a few throws physically," Simms said. "So there's a lot of areas to improve on, but you expect that, really, at this time of the year."

http://www.ffmastermind.com/quickbits.php

i tell you, if Woodyard were 10lbs bigger and got a legit shot at being a starter, he would steal DJ's job

BroncoMan4ever
04-20-2009, 05:37 PM
i say orton gets the job hands down...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrAJNQ_e8Jk&feature=related

i know its against the bears but just so ppl can get a good idea on his arm trength

he has a quick release too, which i really like.

i was upset when we traded Jay, but i am not scared to watch Orton lead the team for a year

Dr. Broncenstein
04-20-2009, 06:01 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_l4ZZFzs7VIs/RucHGIlac6I/AAAAAAAAAbc/NAqXGwQ8paU/s400/SM1082%7ECripple-Fight-Posters.jpg

This is probably the one time you will ever be funny. Bask in the glow.

Natedogg
04-20-2009, 06:19 PM
of course i just found this... i know its not in a game but i figured if ima provide evidence for orton mite-as-well do the same for simms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOiy56Xqf2I

Most people know that's not real. But I'm just sayin.

Where's Plummer???
04-20-2009, 06:20 PM
well considering it was the only good thing i found on simms lol

Florida_Bronco
04-20-2009, 06:25 PM
i tell you, if Woodyard were 10lbs bigger and got a legit shot at being a starter, he would steal DJ's job

Woodyard has a long ways to go before he can dream of taking DJ's job.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Woodyard has a long ways to go before he can dream of taking DJ's job.

Must be a long walk back to the room storing game tapes from last year.

Florida_Bronco
04-20-2009, 06:36 PM
Must be a long walk back to the room storing game tapes from last year.

Must be, seeing as how so many idiots here wanted to start Woodyard over DJ.

NYBronco
04-20-2009, 06:44 PM
Denver QB battle underway: With several inches of wet, heavy snow covering their practice fields, the Broncos held their workouts as part of their first minicamp inside their bubble, and each day the quarterbacks were watched under the keen eye of new head coach Josh McDaniels. McDaniels, who tutored Tom Brady and Matt Cassel in New England before replacing Mike Shanahan in Denver, has declared his quarterback competition wide open. While it would appear Kyle Orton is the front-runner, it was clear Sunday that Chris Simms has the stronger arm. But they appeared about equal in every other aspect. McDaniels said last week that he doesn't have a timetable for naming his starter, and he has suggested he'll select a quarterback in the draft. Asked for his assessment of the quarterback situation after just one day on the field, Pro Bowl cornerback Champ Bailey just grinned. "Right now, it's just two good-looking guys out there throwing the ball," said Bailey, who's steadily improving from offseason surgery to fix a dislocated left elbow. "I know what they've done around the league, but I've never played against them, so I really don't know much about them."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/418071/rss

Still sounds like we could draft a QB.?
Interesting that Sims has the stronger arm?
or is this a smoke screen and Orton is a lock?

McDaniels is just saying that because he knows that if he speaks out of line the players will start to cry, whine and pout eventually leading to them asking for a trade out of town.

Where's Plummer???
04-20-2009, 06:53 PM
McDaniels is just saying that because he knows that if he speaks out of line the players will start to cry, whine and pout eventually leading to them asking for a trade out of town.

is that a cutler crack? Hilarious!

http://www.profootballtalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cutleradoption.JPG

loborugger
04-20-2009, 06:58 PM
*sigh*

+1

If Orton cant beat out Spleen-less Simms, we are in deep doo doo - see KC last year.

frerottenextelway
04-20-2009, 07:06 PM
So it seems to me then we got rid of a whining QB with the same issues (20 to 30 yard passes)....

Cutler
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds.
att cmp pct yds td int
23 53 43.4 751 7 3

Peyton
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds.
att cmp pct yds td int
14 40 35.0 385 2 1

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2009, 07:07 PM
From what I've seen, Orton has an above average arm, that's why I questioned the statment in the article that Sims clearly has the stronger arm?

The practices took place in the bubble. What the article didn't make clear was that the media was all relegated to a roped-off area outside the bubble.

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2009, 07:09 PM
Cutler
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds.
att cmp pct yds td int
23 53 43.4 751 7 3

Peyton
Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds.
att cmp pct yds td int
14 40 35.0 385 2 1

Do those stats indicate how far the ball traveled in the air or do they take into account YAC?

NYBronco
04-20-2009, 07:13 PM
is that a cutler crack? Hilarious!

http://www.profootballtalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cutleradoption.JPG

Sure is... I have to do my part to provide a fair and balanced Bronco board viewpoint with all the McDaniel cracks. ^5

Paladin
04-20-2009, 07:24 PM
In the Orton tube, if that had been Cutler throwing, it would have been an intercept at the goal line, followed by Cutler yelling at Royal for being off route. (pout, pout)

frerottenextelway
04-20-2009, 07:34 PM
Do those stats indicate how far the ball traveled in the air or do they take into account YAC?

Those stats do not include YAC, only air travel. :thumbsup:

edit: to clarify, the total yards and TD's do include YAC, but they are only for balls that traveled 20-30 past the LOS (hope that makes sense). Ie., a screen that went 25 yards wouldn't be included.

BroncoBuff
04-20-2009, 07:36 PM
I'm tellin' you guys, Simms is much better than you think. I watched the Bucaneers on all the time the early games on the Ticket in '05 and '06 (my gf thinks Jon Gruden is "yummy" :oyvey:), and Chris Simms is tough, serious gamer. And of course the spleen thing is not a chronic problem, Peter Forsberg played hockey years after he lost his. I just don't know why that franchise battled him over the injury, or why Gruden treated so badly.

I'm calling this battle 50-50 ... but I'm guessing Simms pulls an upset.

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2009, 07:38 PM
Those stats do not include YAC, only air travel. :thumbsup:

edit: to clarify, the total yards and TD's do include YAC, but they are only for balls that traveled 20-30 past the LOS (hope that makes sense). Ie., a screen that went 25 yards wouldn't be included.

What site?

I'm still trying to figure out how Cutler completed twice as many passes as he threw and Manning completed three times as many as he threw. Now THAT'S impressive. :wiggle:

frerottenextelway
04-20-2009, 07:44 PM
What site?

I'm still trying to figure out how Cutler completed twice as many passes as he threw and Manning completed three times as many as he threw. Now THAT'S impressive. :wiggle:

Oops. LOL

It's from ESPN stats, go to a player's stats, then go to splits - it's toward the bottom of that page.

Here's Peyton's splits
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1428

And Cutler
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=9597

All kinds of cool numbers for stat geeks. :approve:

TheDave
04-20-2009, 08:37 PM
Orton's arm if fine... I've gotten to see 3 of his games from last year, and he is no where near the "noodle arm" status that bear fan would have you believe. Granted he is not on the same planet as cutler is, but he has more than enough arm strength to get the job done.

baja
04-20-2009, 08:47 PM
Orton's arm if fine... I've gotten to see 3 of his games from last year, and he is no where near the "noodle arm" status that bear fan would have you believe. Granted he is not on the same planet as cutler is, but he has more than enough arm strength to get the job done.


Another good man is coming around. ;D

Pony Boy
04-20-2009, 08:52 PM
Orton's arm if fine... I've gotten to see 3 of his games from last year, and he is no where near the "noodle arm" status that bear fan would have you believe. Granted he is not on the same planet as cutler is, but he has more than enough arm strength to get the job done.

It's crazy how your mind can play tricks on you, cause it's crazy as hell when I read your posts they are in Nick Nolte's voice!:rofl:

baja
04-20-2009, 11:57 PM
It's crazy how your mind can play tricks on you, cause it's crazy as hell when I read your posts they are in Nick Nolte's voice!:rofl:

So that is why you chose the avatar you did?

Kaylore
04-21-2009, 12:12 AM
What a commentator says is about as useful as what is written in the media guide.

Orton may not be the second coming of SOB, but he is clearly not a guy who can consistently but the ball on the money when he is going 20 or 30 yards down field. He may be able to hurl it deep when he has to, but the games I have seen with him (5 and counting) his accuracy suffers badly when he goes deep which is an indication that he lacks power and throws unnaturaly to compensate for his arm.

Actually deep throws are the worst gauge for arm strength, so you should adjust your criteria for deciding what you think is a good arm. Cutler wasn't accurate down field either, especially compared to other "weaker" armed players. That doesn't have anything to do with arm strength.

Orton has a lot of zip on the intermediate passes and his release is pretty fast. His footwork is very good too. He's a decent QB. The idea that he's Brian Griese II is also false. He doesn't take sacks like Griese and has more arm strength (but then who doesn't.)

azbroncfan
04-21-2009, 12:21 AM
Actually deep throws are the worst gauge for arm strength, so you should adjust your criteria for deciding what you think is a good arm. Cutler wasn't accurate down field either, especially compared to other "weaker" armed players. That doesn't have anything to do with arm strength.

Orton has a lot of zip on the intermediate passes and his release is pretty fast. His footwork is very good too. He's a decent QB. The idea that he's Brian Griese II is also false. He doesn't take sacks like Griese and has more arm strength (but then who doesn't.)


Exactly. Pennington has a more accurate deep ball that Cutler. Cutler's deep ball actually isn't much better than Plummer's.

SoCalBronco
04-21-2009, 12:24 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2681&dateline=1240211005

Old........ Friend? Josh....you've managed to destroy just about every good thing about this team, but like a poor marksman, you.....keep.... missing..... the target.

Josh...I have the secret to Broncos success. You're too stupid to figure it out on your own, so your going to have to come down here to get it. You're going to have to come down here.

I've done far worse than destroy the good aspects of Broncos...I have hurt the fans............and I wish to go on hurting them. I will leave them as the Giants left my 16-0 all time highest scoring offense. Alone... in the depths of infamy on the trash heap of NFL history...buried alive......buried alive.

JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!

Pony Boy
04-21-2009, 10:18 AM
So that is why you chose the avatar you did?

I guess I really never thought about it, I might change mine to John Wayne, you might want to think about a change too! LOL

baja
04-21-2009, 10:21 AM
No no mine's cool.;D