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View Full Version : It looks like Pass Rushing OLB will be low Priority


rugbythug
04-20-2009, 09:35 AM
It seems to me with the Mini Camp wind down write ups that we will be pretty unlikely to draft a Pass Rushing OLB. I can't see the upside anymore.
Everette Brown, Orakpo, Maybin. These guys are no better than Dumerville, Moss, Crowder. They each have basically the same upside/downside. All can get to the passer. All would be coverage liabilities. I think we will push hard for the Raji/Jackson at 12. And I would not be shocked to see a WR/RB/CB at 18. And I think wood/Mack are a lock at 48 if available.

TheDave
04-20-2009, 09:37 AM
From what I can tell both Raji and Jackson will be gone by #12... we might have to use one of our 3rds to jump Green bay and San Fran.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-20-2009, 09:40 AM
It seems to me with the Mini Camp wind down write ups that we will be pretty unlikely to draft a Pass Rushing OLB. I can't see the upside anymore.
Everette Brown, Orakpo, Maybin. These guys are no better than Dumerville, Moss, Crowder. They each have basically the same upside/downside. All can get to the passer. All would be coverage liabilities. I think we will push hard for the Raji/Jackson at 12. And I would not be shocked to see a WR/RB/CB at 18. And I think wood/Mack are a lock at 48 if available.

I dont really get your logic here. Because they are similar size and play the same position, they are suddenly the same person? Ronald Fields is 330 pounds and plays nose tackle. So is BJ Raji, i guess we're not drafting him either.

Broncoman13
04-20-2009, 09:42 AM
You can never have too many pass rushers. Guys get hurt or have lulls in the season where they are not effective rushing the passer. Can't count on Moss, Doom, or Crowder either. But, if anything this opens the door for the Broncos to select an ILB. Maualuga, Laurinaitis at #18, or Brinkley in the 3rd. I just hope Tyson Jackson is there at #12.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-20-2009, 09:44 AM
I'd still prefer run stoppers, simply because you need to stop the run before you can do anything else on defense. That's why guys like Jackson, Maualuga, Brace make a lot of sense for me with the first 3.

rugbythug
04-20-2009, 09:44 AM
I dont really get your logic here. Because they are similar size and play the same position, they are suddenly the same person? Ronald Fields is 330 pounds and plays nose tackle. So is BJ Raji, i guess we're not drafting him either.

No, actually I am going by college Pedigree. Since none of the six I listed have ever played OLB. Why take the chance on a college Unknown when you have equally pedigreed unknowns on the roster-IMO the chance of success is just as high.

Bronco Boy
04-20-2009, 09:45 AM
That's some extremely rediculous logic.

Mogulseeker
04-20-2009, 09:46 AM
I think it would be a mistake to take a WR on the first day.

rugbythug
04-20-2009, 09:55 AM
From what I can tell both Raji and Jackson will be gone by #12... we might have to use one of our 3rds to jump Green bay and San Fran.

Personally I can't see it. There are only 11 players getting picked before us. IMO

Players I expect to be gone

QB's-Stafford, Sanchez
OT-Smith,Smith, Monroe
WR-Crabtree
OLB-CUrry, Orakpo

If every other pick Breaks against the Broncos. Then I guess you could be right. But IMO I think the chances are actually greater of us having our pick of either rather than neither.

rugbythug
04-20-2009, 09:56 AM
That's some extremely rediculous logic.

it is Rediculous

footstepsfrom#27
04-20-2009, 09:59 AM
It seems to me with the Mini Camp wind down write ups that we will be pretty unlikely to draft a Pass Rushing OLB. I can't see the upside anymore.
Everette Brown, Orakpo, Maybin. These guys are no better than Dumerville, Moss, Crowder. They each have basically the same upside/downside. All can get to the passer. All would be coverage liabilities. I think we will push hard for the Raji/Jackson at 12. And I would not be shocked to see a WR/RB/CB at 18. And I think wood/Mack are a lock at 48 if available.
All can get to the passer? The only guy so far showing he can do that is Elvis. Nobody on the current roster has proven they can play the OLB spot in a 3-4...nobody. Only one guy (Dumervil) has proven he can play at all. Crowder looks like a cut to me, certainly if he's a DE. Moss almost certainly will be cut by this new regime since he's the perfect example of a Shanny high draft pick who isn't living up to expectations...unless he radically improves in TC...nice statement for McHoodie. No current LB looks like a fit there either, including DJ...who IMO may be traded if he's not moved inside. Woodyard might be the only guy they have who can play the spot but he is 30 pounds to light for the OLB spot

Rajil appears to come with some question marks, as does Jackson. Either one would still fit based on them being better than what they have.

WR/RB/CB would be stupid...so that's probably the pick. ;D

socalorado
04-20-2009, 10:01 AM
You can never have too many pass rushers. Guys get hurt or have lulls in the season where they are not effective rushing the passer. Can't count on Moss, Doom, or Crowder either. But, if anything this opens the door for the Broncos to select an ILB. Maualuga, Laurinaitis at #18, or Brinkley in the 3rd. I just hope Tyson Jackson is there at #12.

Exactly.

Also, i think some posters are misreading these kind of articles where a player is mentioned in the context of playing another position.
IMHO, Nolan more than likely is giving these guys a "last" look before the draft to confirm what he already suspects....that they CANT play where he wants them to.

TheDave
04-20-2009, 10:03 AM
Personally I can't see it. There are only 11 players getting picked before us. IMO

Players I expect to be gone

QB's-Stafford, Sanchez
OT-Smith,Smith, Monroe
WR-Crabtree
OLB-CUrry, Orakpo

If every other pick Breaks against the Broncos. Then I guess you could be right. But IMO I think the chances are actually greater of us having our pick of either rather than neither.

That leaves 3 picks... Barring a posative test for Dope Raji is gone for sure. That leaves Jackson and I see both Green Bay and San Fran as probable landing spots. Using a 3rd to move ahead of them would be the smart play at this point.

cmhargrove
04-20-2009, 10:10 AM
Just because Crowder and Moss lined up at OLB doesn't mean they're any good at it. The coaches will be looking at film all week to see about that one.

Hopefully, it does mean we are deep at the position, that would be awesome for the team. Hopefully, it does mean we can focus on the D-line.

It would free us up to potentially take a guy like Malcolm Jenkins at #12, which would be a good value pick.


In all honesty, we still don't know what the coaches think of the players. We won't know until the end of the draft on Sunday...

rugbythug
04-20-2009, 10:12 AM
All can get to the passer? The only guy so far showing he can do that is Elvis. Nobody on the current roster has proven they can play the OLB spot in a 3-4...nobody. Only one guy (Dumervil) has proven he can play at all. Crowder looks like a cut to me, certainly if he's a DE. Moss almost certainly will be cut by this new regime since he's the perfect example of a Shanny high draft pick who isn't living up to expectations...unless he radically improves in TC...nice statement for McHoodie. No current LB looks like a fit there either, including DJ...who IMO may be traded if he's not moved inside. Woodyard might be the only guy they have who can play the spot but he is 30 pounds to light for the OLB spot

Rajil appears to come with some question marks, as does Jackson. Either one would still fit based on them being better than what they have.

WR/RB/CB would be stupid...so that's probably the pick. ;D

This is true Nobody has proved they can play OLB. This include the draft picks. The chance for success is the same for the guys on the roster as it is the guys at the combine. Logic would dictate you don't spend resources on an unknown when the unknowns already on the roster have as much chance of success.

You are cutting guys you have not even seen play. I can just as easily say. Well Everette Brown looks like a cut he is to stiff to cover.

rugbythug
04-20-2009, 10:14 AM
Just because Crowder and Moss lined up at OLB doesn't mean they're any good at it. The coaches will be looking at film all week to see about that one.

Hopefully, it does mean we are deep at the position, that would be awesome for the team. Hopefully, it does mean we can focus on the D-line.

It would free us up to potentially take a guy like Malcolm Jenkins at #12, which would be a good value pick.


In all honesty, we still don't know what the coaches think of the players. We won't know until the end of the draft on Sunday...

My point is not that they are any good. Not one person here has any idea. But they have as much of a chance as the guys in the draft.

BroncoBuff
04-20-2009, 10:16 AM
I've been saying this the last week ... we actually have 6-8 decent LBs.

But the cupboard is bare along the line. I think Marcus Thomas has twice as many starts as any one of the others, and with Crowder and Moss at LB now, we have almost nobody on the D-Line.

I'm for going D-Line with 3 or 4 of those first 5 picks :thumbsup:

Gcver2ver3
04-20-2009, 10:17 AM
It seems to me with the Mini Camp wind down write ups that we will be pretty unlikely to draft a Pass Rushing OLB. I can't see the upside anymore.
Everette Brown, Orakpo, Maybin. These guys are no better than Dumerville, Moss, Crowder. They each have basically the same upside/downside. All can get to the passer. All would be coverage liabilities. I think we will push hard for the Raji/Jackson at 12. And I would not be shocked to see a WR/RB/CB at 18. And I think wood/Mack are a lock at 48 if available.

i wouldn't go that far...

personally though i do believe D-line is priority even over edge rushers...

Jackson and or BJ may be our targets and i'm good with that...

but i still believe a pass rusher or two will be drafted fairly early as well...

SonOfLe-loLang
04-20-2009, 10:18 AM
My point is not that they are any good. Not one person here has any idea. But they have as much of a chance as the guys in the draft.

I still don't get your logic. Just because they have a similar skill set, similar strengths and weaknesses, doesn't make them the same player. In high school, i could run great routes, had good hands, but was pretty small and wasnt the fastest guy in the world. Think the broncos should sign me to play the welker position? We have a similar skill set and size.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-20-2009, 10:19 AM
I've been saying this the last week ... we actually have 6-8 decent LBs.

But the cupboard is bare along the line. I think Marcus Thomas has twice as many starts as any one of the others, and with Crowder and Moss at LB now, we have almost nobody on the D-Line.

I'm for going D-Line with 3 or 4 of those first 5 picks :thumbsup:

I agree. I'm all for bigger, nastier dudes in general. Which is why Tjackson, brace, maualuga look pretty nice to me. Stop that run!!

BroncoBuff
04-20-2009, 10:21 AM
I think it would be a mistake to take a WR on the first day.

Agree. Jabar Gaffney is better than this Board's conventional wisdom gives him I think. Plus B-Marsh, Royal and Stokley. That's four who will make the roster, two very young and Gaffney in his prime.

And I'm still very intrigued by Chad Jackson ... if anybody knows Chad Jackson, it's Josh. Chad know's Josh's offense, and Josh knows Chad. If Chad can't make it here and make it now, he really is a bust.

Gotta say, his speed is electric ... the one ball he caught this year aganist the Jets was an eye-opener.

footstepsfrom#27
04-20-2009, 10:29 AM
This is true Nobody has proved they can play OLB. This include the draft picks. The chance for success is the same for the guys on the roster as it is the guys at the combine. Logic would dictate you don't spend resources on an unknown when the unknowns already on the roster have as much chance of success.
I wouldn't equate a guy in his third season who hasn't proven he even belongs on the team with a #1 draft pick yet to play a down. Coaches are always drawn to potential. Do you honestly think McOpie will look at Crowder like he does a guy he could draft at #12? Crowder's done nothing at all, and Moss is the perfect victim, a high Shanny draft pick who hasn't lived up to expectaions due to injury and slow physical development, plus he has potential character issues that might worry a new coachc. Neither will get an ounce of respect they don't earn in spades.
You are cutting guys you have not even seen play. I can just as easily say. Well Everette Brown looks like a cut he is to stiff to cover.
I'm sure there's plenty of video on all these guys, from both practice and game film, and it's against NFL competition not college guys so it's more definitive. Besides...he's already cut guys before they even went to mini camp so that's a non issue.

socalorado
04-20-2009, 10:33 AM
I wouldn't equate a guy in his third season who hasn't proven he even belongs on the team with a #1 draft pick yet to play a down. Coaches are always drawn to potential. Do you honestly think McOpie will look at Crowder like he does a guy he could draft at #12? Crowder's done nothing at all, and Moss is the perfect victim, a high Shanny draft pick who hasn't lived up to expectaions due to injury and slow physical development, plus he has potential character issues that might worry a new coachc. Neither will get an ounce of respect they don't earn in spades.

I'm sure there's plenty of video on all these guys, from both practice and game film, and it's against NFL competition not college guys so it's more definitive. Besides...he's already cut guys before they even went to mini camp so that's a non issue.

:thumbsup:

Rohirrim
04-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Rey Rey, come on down! ;D

bpc
04-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Jackson should still be there at #12. Then we should flip around and take Michael Johnson at #18. He'll easily beat out Boss Bailey for the SAM position. He'll give us edge rushing ability at the OLB spot and also has the athletic ability to flip around and play in coverage.

If we move to a 4-3 on certain downs, he can put his hand in the ground and play end.

Pony Boy
04-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Moss almost certainly will be cut by this new regime since he's the perfect example of a Shanny high draft pick who isn't living up to expectations...unless he radically improves in TC...nice statement for McHoodie.

I'm afraid you might be right on this, I'm not ready to give up on Moss yet. If we cut or trade him , he is one of those guys that will land on another team and become a player, maybe not pro bowler but a solid starter.

Popps
04-20-2009, 10:39 AM
Tyson Jackson continues to look like our most logical pick, if there. Then, we've got to try to add bodies at DT. The Brace kid looks good, but maybe there are some sleepers out there at NT, as well.

I also wouldn't mind seeing one true 3-4 ILB being brought in.

Also, keep in mind... we will be in position to take one of the best S's in the draft, if we choose. As much as I'd rather we didn't, S or even CB could be a first round consideration.

socalorado
04-20-2009, 10:40 AM
I'm afraid you might be right on this, I'm not ready to give up on Moss yet. If we cut or trade him , he is one of those guys that will land on another team and become a player, maybe not pro bowler but a solid starter.

Really!?!?

He was considered a 3rd down situational DE and nothing more in college, so he would have to go to a team that already good as a 4-3, and maybe he would get some reps, but a solid starter, i am not so sure.
Maybe CAR!?!?!?

gyldenlove
04-20-2009, 10:43 AM
From what I can tell both Raji and Jackson will be gone by #12... we might have to use one of our 3rds to jump Green bay and San Fran.

I am starting to think Raji could very well be there at 12.

I consider Sanchez, Stafford, Monroe, Jenkins, Jason Smith, Curry, Jackson, Crabtree, Andre Smith locks in the top 11.

That makes Oher, Maclin, Orakpo and Raji to battle it out for the top 12. If Oher gets picked ahead of us, I think Raji will be there. Right now the worst case looks to be if Raji, Jackson, Curry and Jenkins all get picked before us, we could end up having to reach for Cushing or get Orakpo if we can't trade down.

BroncoBuff
04-20-2009, 10:46 AM
Everette Brown, Orakpo, Maybin. These guys are no better than Dumerville, Moss, Crowder. They each have basically the same upside/downside.

I dunno about that ... the key threshhold issue for all drafees is whether they can handle the physical nature and speed/toughness required in the NFL. History is littered with the bodies of "can't miss" first-rounders who couldn't handle the rigors of the league.

Dumervil has proven he can, he has passed that threshhold issue. So I think he is ahead of Browne, Maybin, Orakpo.

The other two you mention, Moss and Crowder, they have yet to show they can handle the NFL, so I agree they prolly have similar upside/downsides.

footstepsfrom#27
04-20-2009, 10:56 AM
I am starting to think Raji could very well be there at 12.

I consider Sanchez, Stafford, Monroe, Jenkins, Jason Smith, Curry, Jackson, Crabtree, Andre Smith locks in the top 11.
Jenkins ran a mediocre 4.55 40 at the combine and some teams project him to safety. I don't think he's a top 10 pick but in this CB weak draft maybe he is. I hope he's gone before we pick.
That makes Oher, Maclin, Orakpo and Raji to battle it out for the top 12. If Oher gets picked ahead of us, I think Raji will be there. Right now the worst case looks to be if Raji, Jackson, Curry and Jenkins all get picked before us, we could end up having to reach for Cushing or get Orakpo if we can't trade down.
Moreno might sneak up there too. Of the guys listed, both Orakpo and Rajil could go in the top 10 IMO.

Mogulseeker
04-20-2009, 10:59 AM
Agree. Jabar Gaffney is better than this Board's conventional wisdom gives him I think. Plus B-Marsh, Royal and Stokley. That's four who will make the roster, two very young and Gaffney in his prime.

And I'm still very intrigued by Chad Jackson ... if anybody knows Chad Jackson, it's Josh. Chad know's Josh's offense, and Josh knows Chad. If Chad can't make it here and make it now, he really is a bust.

Gotta say, his speed is electric ... the one ball he caught this year aganist the Jets was an eye-opener.

But I liked our 3 set last year with Marshall, Royal and Stokley... Gaffney will be welcom at 4... and maybe with Stokley getting up there in age... eh, I don't see Chad Jackson becoming a husge threat with two young'ns

meangene
04-20-2009, 11:09 AM
I think the current staff has high hopes for Doom at the rush linebacker spot but I still think we will look OLB early in this draft. I think we will be looking more at guys who can play the opposite side, drop into coverage and rush the passer. I think that reduces the value of some guys for us (Brown, Orakpo, Maybin) and increases the value of guys like Matthews and Sintim who are a little more versatile. With Jackson's stock rising, neither he nor Raji may be there at #12 and it is too early for Matthews or Sintim. If it falls this way I am thinking Wells or Jenkins at 12.

TheChamp24
04-20-2009, 11:10 AM
IMO, locks for the first 11:
Stafford
J. Smith
Monroe
Curry
Crabtree
A. Smith
Sanchez
Orakpo

Guys with high probability of in top 11:
Jackson
Maclin
Jenkins
Raji

From what I've read, a lot of teams value Jackson pretty high. Personally, he isn't worth a top 10 pick. I would like him only because I feel he would be a solid starter for us at DE. He won't be spectacular and never be considered a Pro Bowler, but a solid starter.

cmhargrove
04-20-2009, 11:34 AM
I think the current staff has high hopes for Doom at the rush linebacker spot but I still think we will look OLB early in this draft. I think we will be looking more at guys who can play the opposite side, drop into coverage and rush the passer. I think that reduces the value of some guys for us (Brown, Orakpo, Maybin) and increases the value of guys like Matthews and Sintim who are a little more versatile. With Jackson's stock rising, neither he nor Raji may be there at #12 and it is too early for Matthews or Sintim. If it falls this way I am thinking Wells or Jenkins at 12.

I agree with you, it is about a difference maker at the position. All of the sudden, we are very old at CB, so Jenkins would make sense.

Wells could be a game changer and help us with our red zone scoring, so i'm with you there.

I will also throw in Maclin because he is a potential game changer. If we surround an average QB with great O-linemen and playmakers at WR, he will look like a pro-bowler. I call this the Kurt Warner model. I don't care about Orton or Simms, if we have a devastating run attack and WR corps.

There could be value here at 12.

However, that being said, I hope we pick defense.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-20-2009, 11:43 AM
I agree with you, it is about a difference maker at the position. All of the sudden, we are very old at CB, so Jenkins would make sense.

Wells could be a game changer and help us with our red zone scoring, so i'm with you there.

I will also throw in Maclin because he is a potential game changer. If we surround an average QB with great O-linemen and playmakers at WR, he will look like a pro-bowler. I call this the Kurt Warner model. I don't care about Orton or Simms, if we have a devastating run attack and WR corps.

There could be value here at 12.

However, that being said, I hope we pick defense.


I will not be too happy if we draft Jenkins first because it would be the continuation of bad policy. Defenses are nothing if their front sevens arent strong. Please please please improve the front seven.

Florida_Bronco
04-20-2009, 11:47 AM
Really!?!? He was considered a 3rd down situational DE and nothing more in college Umm, no.

Drek
04-20-2009, 11:59 AM
I've been saying this the last week ... we actually have 6-8 decent LBs.

But the cupboard is bare along the line. I think Marcus Thomas has twice as many starts as any one of the others, and with Crowder and Moss at LB now, we have almost nobody on the D-Line.

I'm for going D-Line with 3 or 4 of those first 5 picks :thumbsup:

I don't know if I'd use the word "decent".

DJ should probably be solid. Larsen and Davis both seem to profile well for the inside but in the same role. Dumervil has a lot of potential. Woodyard has some decent hope to find a place to stick. In reality though most of these guys are getting shots not because they look real good, but because we just don't have many better options.

Would New England or Baltimore give Woodyard a shot to play ILB? No way in hell. But we have a hole and he's the best option to fill it. Probably not a great option, but there's a better chance he fills it well than someone like Haggans or Boss Bailey.

Taking the mini-camp reports as something of a draft predictor isn't very accurate. Its the staff making the best out of a bad roster. I wouldn't assume anyone is a lock to play any specific position. For example, at current I think DJ might wind up at SOLB, with Woodyard at WILB. But what if Aaron Curry falls within reach? He'd immediately be a better SOLB than DJ, who would move inside and bump Woodyard to the bench.

Maybe Nolan secretly loves Maualuga and he wants to pair him with Davis or Larsen for a pair of hard hitting ILBs. Maybe they love Orakpo and think he can handle SOLB. Its a big unknown at this point because the new staff isn't financially obligated to anyone but DJ in the front seven and you could theoretically get an improvement over any of the front seven at #12 with some luck.

Jenkins ran a mediocre 4.55 40 at the combine and some teams project him to safety. I don't think he's a top 10 pick but in this CB weak draft maybe he is. I hope he's gone before we pick.

Antrel Rolle had very similar numbers and he went #8 overall if I recall, to a team that specifically wanted to play him as a FS.

I don't think there is a team that couldn't feel like addressing a better "value" spot in the top 10, so Jenkins in the top 10 seems like a stretch to me as well, but you never know.

rugbythug
04-20-2009, 12:01 PM
Antrel Rolle had very similar numbers and he went #8 overall if I recall, to a team that specifically wanted to play him as a FS.

I don't think there is a team that couldn't feel like addressing a better "value" spot in the top 10, so Jenkins in the top 10 seems like a stretch to me as well, but you never know.

He was not a FS until he couldn't play corner

BroncoMan4ever
04-20-2009, 01:18 PM
Rajil appears to come with some question marks, as does Jackson. Either one would still fit based on them being better than what they have.

WR/RB/CB would be stupid...so that's probably the pick. ;D

i tell you, don't be too against getting RB in the 1st. because i am predicting Jackson at 12 and then Moreno at 18. i would have said Wells, but he blew off his trip so he is out because of that.

NFLBRONCO
04-20-2009, 01:31 PM
I fully expect a WR and RB selected within our first 5 picks.

footstepsfrom#27
04-20-2009, 01:32 PM
i tell you, don't be too against getting RB in the 1st. because i am predicting Jackson at 12 and then Moreno at 18. i would have said Wells, but he blew off his trip so he is out because of that.
I could see either one at #18 if it weren't for the fact that little hoodie seems bent on sticking with a single back and he's brought in Jordan to pair with Hillis already. Besides...he knows it's the D that got Shanny fired so it's likely he magically finds the BPA to be a defensive guy even if he's not. Jackson...I wouldn't mind at #18...not sure he's that great or worth the 12 spot though. If we got both Rajil and him I'd be fine with it since it's fully addressing the D-line.

ZONA
04-20-2009, 01:38 PM
I say we trade up to snag the best LT in the draft to get some depth behind Clady......................phhshshss, doh.

This is about the time where the fun of picking your mocks and evaluating players ends for me. It's been gone over a thousand times and then some. Now, I'm just gonna kick back and watch it unfold.

:welcome:

montrose
04-20-2009, 01:42 PM
Once word leaked (purposely or not) that KC was strongly considering Jackson, I knew his stock would soar. He's a safe pick at a position of need in a year when teams are making the move to the 3-4. Prior, I thought we'd see a run on the pass-rushing OLBs before #12 but now I still a distinct possiblity Brown and/or Maybin could be available at that spot. With that, I'm not sure if they're the best pick - not because of who we have or don't have on the roster right now - but because you have to take the best player available at the spot and I'm not so sure those guys would be the best value at those spots. It's a real shame Raji isn't a NT or he'd be a slam dunk at #12, unfortunately he's not one so even if he's available at #12 I don't see why I'd waste the pick. What I'm intrigued by is the possiblity that the OLB position drops like the WR spot did last year. With that, I read this morning (I believe at ESPN) that the late-1st round crop of WRs has been leaving some question marks and because of the lack of value at that position, I could see the position dropping again this year. If we could land an intriguing pass-rushing project in round two and use our 1st round picks to land safe, solid prospects on the DL, ILB or even in the secondary - I'd be pretty happy.

barryr
04-20-2009, 01:57 PM
I'd be ok with Moreno with a 1st rounder. I think he's the best all-around RB in the draft.

I have heard all different things about Jackson. He's rising, he's dropping, even into the 2nd round, etc. One guesses, like done with other players, putting out there that a player is dropping so he will drop and they can get the guy.

Cito Pelon
04-20-2009, 02:02 PM
The point of this little exercise was to get a look at what the team already had. If the current players were not up for it, a little lackadaisical, then the coaching staff doesn't want them. Good coaches can tell the difference between who's just toeing (not 'towing', jesus, some of you are beyond belief. Don't you read at all?) the company line and who's a bum.

We'll see if this coaching staff learned anything from their time with the players. The draft will tell us.

400HZ
04-20-2009, 02:08 PM
Agree. Jabar Gaffney is better than this Board's conventional wisdom gives him I think. Plus B-Marsh, Royal and Stokley. That's four who will make the roster, two very young and Gaffney in his prime.

And I'm still very intrigued by Chad Jackson ... if anybody knows Chad Jackson, it's Josh. Chad know's Josh's offense, and Josh knows Chad. If Chad can't make it here and make it now, he really is a bust.

Gotta say, his speed is electric ... the one ball he caught this year aganist the Jets was an eye-opener.

Is he going to cut him again?

footstepsfrom#27
04-20-2009, 02:13 PM
Once word leaked (purposely or not) that KC was strongly considering Jackson, I knew his stock would soar. He's a safe pick at a position of need in a year when teams are making the move to the 3-4.
Safe maybe...but at #3 he would be a serious reach IMO. I think he's a reach at 12 too. In point of fact I'm not sure there's a player in the 1st round that's not a reach there. The 3-4 OLB's are mostly college DE's that might not be able to cover anyone. The ILB's other than Curry don't have the big upside. CB is underwhelming, RB's...only 2 and both have issues...QB would be a mistake. I really think swapping one of these 1st rounders and getting a 1st next year would make the most sense.

Drek
04-20-2009, 02:14 PM
Is he going to cut him again?

That'd just be cold man. C-Jack would be wondering what he's got to do to get away from that guy.

Cito Pelon
04-20-2009, 02:15 PM
I could see either one at #18 if it weren't for the fact that little hoodie seems bent on sticking with a single back and he's brought in Jordan to pair with Hillis already. Besides...he knows it's the D that got Shanny fired so it's likely he magically finds the BPA to be a defensive guy even if he's not. Jackson...I wouldn't mind at #18...not sure he's that great or worth the 12 spot though. If we got both Rajil and him I'd be fine with it since it's fully addressing the D-line.

You'll panic no matter what happens. You're in full panic mode already.

meangene
04-20-2009, 02:19 PM
I agree with you, it is about a difference maker at the position. All of the sudden, we are very old at CB, so Jenkins would make sense.

Wells could be a game changer and help us with our red zone scoring, so i'm with you there.

I will also throw in Maclin because he is a potential game changer. If we surround an average QB with great O-linemen and playmakers at WR, he will look like a pro-bowler. I call this the Kurt Warner model. I don't care about Orton or Simms, if we have a devastating run attack and WR corps.

There could be value here at 12.

However, that being said, I hope we pick defense.

I'm hoping we can find a trade partner to move back and add more picks!

BroncoBuff
04-20-2009, 02:25 PM
I read this morning that the late-1st round crop of WRs has been leaving some question marks and because of the lack of value at that position, I could see the position dropping again this year. If we could land an intriguing pass-rushing project in round two and use our 1st round picks to land safe, solid prospects on the DL, ILB or even in the secondary - I'd be pretty happy.

This.

TheDave
04-20-2009, 02:28 PM
I'm hoping we can find a trade partner to move back and add more picks!

IMO we have more than enough picks... 5 picks in the 1st 84 is plenty.

What we need to do is hit on these picks.

NFLBRONCO
04-20-2009, 02:42 PM
IMO we have more than enough picks... 5 picks in the 1st 84 is plenty.

What we need to do is hit on these picks.

If we go all D with first 5 we do but, if Baskin drafts a WR and RB in first 84 we could use 1 or 2 more.

Yep hitting on picks is a must like every year.

cutthemdown
04-20-2009, 03:13 PM
It seems to me with the Mini Camp wind down write ups that we will be pretty unlikely to draft a Pass Rushing OLB. I can't see the upside anymore.
Everette Brown, Orakpo, Maybin. These guys are no better than Dumerville, Moss, Crowder. They each have basically the same upside/downside. All can get to the passer. All would be coverage liabilities. I think we will push hard for the Raji/Jackson at 12. And I would not be shocked to see a WR/RB/CB at 18. And I think wood/Mack are a lock at 48 if available.

If we got Alex Mack in 2nd round I would **** myself. IMO he is one of the surest things in the draft.

IMO he will go bottom of the first, very top of the 2nd. We would maybe have to trade up in the 2nd or down in the first.

Honestly though the 18th pick for a center that probably makes 3-4 pro bowls and starts for 10 yrs isn't a reach IMO.

cutthemdown
04-20-2009, 03:14 PM
Is he going to cut him again?

I wouldn't be surprised.

Drek
04-20-2009, 05:24 PM
IMO we have more than enough picks... 5 picks in the 1st 84 is plenty.

What we need to do is hit on these picks.

We should trade back to add more 2010 value.

That way in 2010 we can trade back again for 2011 value.

Teams are willing to overpay late in the first or early in the second to jump back in for a guy they really like. Why not take the pay off from the Cutler deal to exploit that? That is how you turn it into a Herschel Walker level of deal.

TheDave
04-20-2009, 07:49 PM
We should trade back to add more 2010 value.

That way in 2010 we can trade back again for 2011 value.

Teams are willing to overpay late in the first or early in the second to jump back in for a guy they really like. Why not take the pay off from the Cutler deal to exploit that? That is how you turn it into a Herschel Walker level of deal.

Unfortunately we need our talent now... McDaniels leash isn't long enough to bank on the 2011 Draft. If he trades some of this years picks to improve our position next year then proceedes to go 2-14... he isn't going to get a chance to use them. I have a feeling he knows that.

Drek
04-20-2009, 08:08 PM
Unfortunately we need our talent now... McDaniels leash isn't long enough to bank on the 2011 Draft. If he trades some of this years picks to improve our position next year then proceedes to go 2-14... he isn't going to get a chance to use them. I have a feeling he knows that.
He'll be here through his contract, Bowlen has a history of being a fairly patient owner and I doubt he's going to want to pay three coaches at once.

In this draft you have a lot of pretty comparable players between picks 15-50, and from 51-100. There is a pretty deep pool for the FO to pick from at a few need positions this year (primarily pass rushing 3-4 OLBs). The FO has the flexibility to trade down, still get a solid player, and have more value for the next draft.

TheDave
04-20-2009, 08:24 PM
He'll be here through his contract, Bowlen has a history of being a fairly patient owner and I doubt he's going to want to pay three coaches at once.

In this draft you have a lot of pretty comparable players between picks 15-50, and from 51-100. There is a pretty deep pool for the FO to pick from at a few need positions this year (primarily pass rushing 3-4 OLBs). The FO has the flexibility to trade down, still get a solid player, and have more value for the next draft.

I don't disagree with your assemsment of this draft, but I think you are way off on the length of McDaniels leash.

1st Shanahan will have a job next year so bowlen won't be paying his salary... and if McDaniels puts together a couple of losing seasons he tenure will probably be about as long as Wade Philips.

Look the point of this is use your picks now. Sure if some team comes in and radically over pays for your spot, I understand that. But barring that situations, we need the talent NOW. The sooner we get these kids in our system the sooner they can develop into real NFL players.

UberBroncoMan
04-20-2009, 08:38 PM
I've been saying this the last week ... we actually have 6-8 decent LBs.

But the cupboard is bare along the line. I think Marcus Thomas has twice as many starts as any one of the others, and with Crowder and Moss at LB now, we have almost nobody on the D-Line.

I'm for going D-Line with 3 or 4 of those first 5 picks :thumbsup:

I too think we're fine at LB this year. We have so many LB's and a few of them are young and filled with potential (especially Woodyard).

D.J. is going to be a starter... Andra Davis will as well. We also got Boss Bailey, Crowder, Dumervil, Larsen, Moss, Reid, and Woodyard. We're stacked there and only four get to be starters.

If we can get Jackson from LSU and Jerron Gilbert for our DE's in the 3-4 I think we'll do great.

I actually believe Carlton Powell is going to be an awesome NT for us. In college he held runners to negative yardage. As an NT he just needs to fill up holes and hold the line, which seems to be his forte as opposed to pass rushing.

We just need to solidify our 3-4 DE's and we'll be money. We can spend the rest on depth, maybe we can get Sean Smith as a future Safety or CB prospect.

azbroncfan
04-20-2009, 08:38 PM
I doubt it as all Denver has on their roster for LB's are underachieving DE converted to OLB, poor fitted ILB for 3-4, and 2 WLB for a 4-3 that don't really fit the new system but one WW is always around the ball and deserves a chance and the other is a very average overpaid LB that doesn't fit new system (DJ). The rest have been injury riddled. I think 2 new LB's get picked in this draft.

BroncoBuff
04-20-2009, 09:01 PM
I agree. I'm all for bigger, nastier dudes in general. Which is why Tjackson, brace, maualuga look pretty nice to me. Stop that run!!

With WW working inside this weekend, we already have 4 ILB keepers, two in their prime and two young'uns. So I'm not high on Maualuga for this roster. I agree with the othet two there ...

TJax-#12 ... Jenkins (as a safety)-#18 ... Brace-#48.

Anybody think Mizzou safety William Moore will last until #79?

TheChamp24
04-20-2009, 09:17 PM
I too think we're fine at LB this year. We have so many LB's and a few of them are young and filled with potential (especially Woodyard).

D.J. is going to be a starter... Andra Davis will as well. We also got Boss Bailey, Crowder, Dumervil, Larsen, Moss, Reid, and Woodyard. We're stacked there and only four get to be starters.

If we can get Jackson from LSU and Jerron Gilbert for our DE's in the 3-4 I think we'll do great.

I actually believe Carlton Powell is going to be an awesome NT for us. In college he held runners to negative yardage. As an NT he just needs to fill up holes and hold the line, which seems to be his forte as opposed to pass rushing.

We just need to solidify our 3-4 DE's and we'll be money. We can spend the rest on depth, maybe we can get Sean Smith as a future Safety or CB prospect.

I think you are overrating our defensive players.
Saying we just need 3-4 DE's and our defense will be "money" is somewhat laughable to me.

baja
04-20-2009, 09:24 PM
Unfortunately we need our talent now... McDaniels leash isn't long enough to bank on the 2011 Draft. If he trades some of this years picks to improve our position next year then proceedes to go 2-14... he isn't going to get a chance to use them. I have a feeling he knows that.

I disagree Dave. I bet Bowlen had to agree to guarantee McD he would have at least two years to work with before he took the job. McD had a plan and knew he was highly sought after candidate therefore he was not going to settle for a one year trial deal because he knew and shared that knowing with Bowlen that his make over would take at a minimum two seasons and be wanted assurances that he would have the full two seasons to show that his plan would work and got it.

baja
04-20-2009, 09:30 PM
I don't disagree with your assemsment of this draft, but I think you are way off on the length of McDaniels leash.

1st Shanahan will have a job next year so bowlen won't be paying his salary... and if McDaniels puts together a couple of losing seasons he tenure will probably be about as long as Wade Philips.

Look the point of this is use your picks now. Sure if some team comes in and radically over pays for your spot, I understand that. But barring that situations, we need the talent NOW. The sooner we get these kids in our system the sooner they can develop into real NFL players.

We have ten picks and we signed several free agents so if we can trade one of those higher picks for a better pick or two next season than we should do that. We can parlay the cutler trade into extra picks for years if we play it right. This is the way to build a dynasty IMO.

TheDave
04-20-2009, 09:44 PM
If someone is willing to overpay for talent this year then it is something to consider... But i doubt teams will be willing to pay too much for a draft that is widely believed to have fairly consitent talent between picks 10 and 40.

Beyond that I completely disagree that we can simply risk a pick now because we have 8 or 9 more and signed a bunch of 30 something FA. I think people have forgotten just how pathetic this defense was last year and to top it off we just lost our best player on the offense. I promise you if this team goes into the tank Pat Bowlen isn't going to be nearly as patient as some of you think.

baja
04-20-2009, 10:00 PM
If someone is willing to overpay for talent this year then it is something to consider... But i doubt teams will be willing to pay too much for a draft that is widely believed to have fairly consitent talent between picks 10 and 40.

Beyond that I completely disagree that we can simply risk a pick now because we have 8 or 9 more and signed a bunch of 30 something FA. I think people have forgotten just how pathetic this defense was last year and to top it off we just lost our best player on the offense. I promise you if this team goes into the tank Pat Bowlen isn't going to be nearly as patient as some of you think.

We already have Cutler's serviceable replacement and a big improvement at back up

Our secondary is solid right now because of free agency and we have a damn good core at LB

We need a RB and ST help along with starters on the D line if we can trade one of our firsts for a first and a second or third next season than that has way more value accrued than that one player this year because next year we can make the same trade again and again double up this is the true way to fast track building a team in the draft.

TheDave
04-20-2009, 10:12 PM
We already have Cutler's serviceable replacement and a big improvement at back up

Our secondary is solid right now because of free agency and we have a damn good core at LB

We need a RB and ST help along with starters on the D line if we can trade one of our firsts for a first and a second or third next season than that has way more value accrued than that one player this year because next year we can make the same trade again and again double up this is the true way to fast track building a team in the draft.

A damn good core at LB? Beside Andra Davis none of them have ever played in a 3-4. We don't know if any of them will be able to play their new positions. On top of that we have a Back up NT in Fields and no one who has ever played the 5 tech at DE.

As for the secondary... we improved at safety assuming that Dawkins can still play @ 36 years old. Oh that and champ is a year older comming off of an injury riddled year. I'm not convinced our secondary is as good as you think they are.

And don't get me started on drop off from Cutler to Orton.

Look Baja, I realize you want to be posative here, but this team is in serious need of youth and talent on Defense and possibly a long term replacement at QB. Then assuming we get all that we get to take a bunch of unproven players into the hardest schedule I've ever seen.

Our front office better have one hell of a draft or a completely different FO might be making the picks next year. I'm hoping for the best here, but you are kidding yourself if you think we are just a RB and a coiuple of D lineman away.

baja
04-20-2009, 10:20 PM
A damn good core at LB? Beside Andra Davis none of them have ever played in a 3-4. We don't know if any of them will be able to play their new positions. On top of that we have a Back up NT in Fields and no one who has ever played the 5 tech at DE.

As for the secondary... we improved at safety assuming that Dawkins can still play @ 36 years old. Oh that and champ is a year older comming off of an injury riddled year. I'm not convinced our secondary is as good as you think they are.

And don't get me started on drop off from Cutler to Orton.

Look Baja, I realize you want to be posative here, but this team is in serious need of youth and talent on Defense and possibly a long term replacement at QB. Then assuming we get all that we get to take a bunch of unproven players into the hardest schedule I've ever seen.

Our front office better have one hell of a draft or a completely different FO might be making the picks next year. <b> I'm hoping for the best here, but you are kidding yourself if you think we are just a RB and a coiuple of D lineman away.

That is not at all what i said.

We are going to find three starters at LB out of the 6 or 7 candidates vying for the spots and some of the others will play too. We likely will draft one or two LBs that leaves 8 draft choices, we will probably take a corner leaving 7 we will take a QB & a RB down to 5 we will take 4 players on the D line that leaves one for a trade for two next year. Keep in mind we are not going very far this year so we bite the bullet a little and have a payoff in more picks for several years if we play it right.

TheDave
04-20-2009, 10:27 PM
That is not at all what i said.

We are going to find three starters at LB out of the 6 or 7 candidates vying for the spots and some of the others will play too. We likely will draft one or two LBs that leaves 8 draft choices, we will probably take a corner leaving 7 we will take a QB & a RB down to 5 we will take 4 players on the D line that leaves one for a trade for two next year. Keep in mind we are not going very far this year so we bite the bullet a little and have a payoff in more picks for several years if we play it right.

Fair enough, we will see how this thing goes. I just can't see past all the holes on this team. I really hoping that Nolan is one hell of a good Coordinator, because right I see a lot of square pegs being jammed into those round holes.

As I've said 100X this offseason... I'm hoping for the best ;D

BroncoBuff
04-20-2009, 10:31 PM
I say .....

#12 - Tyson Jackson - Richard Seymour type will be a l-o-n-g-t-i-m-e stalwart
#18 - Malcolm Jenkins - as a safety, a pretty big hitter, he could be the nickel back right away
#48 - Ron Brace - a real NT, I love Powell and they have confidence in Fields, but neither's ever been a starter


And I like Clemson NT Dorrell Scott late in the draft ... a powerful sleeper at NT.

baja
04-20-2009, 10:44 PM
Fair enough, we will see how this thing goes. I just can't see past <b>all the holes on this team. </b> I really hoping that Nolan is one hell of a good Coordinator, because right I see a lot of square pegs being jammed into those round holes.

As I've said 100X this offseason... I'm hoping for the best ;D

True that but we are not filling them all in one season so what we got here is a two draft project at a minimum my point is accept that and maximize it.

footstepsfrom#27
04-21-2009, 02:31 AM
We have ten picks and we signed several free agents so if we can trade one of those higher picks for a better pick or two next season than we should do that. We can parlay the cutler trade into extra picks for years if we play it right. This is the way to build a dynasty IMO.
I've seen this view expressed in here several times. If this was as easy as some of you seem to think than every team in the NFL would be trying this every year. You need the right parter, the right player available and the right spot in the draft to make it work. I'd be happy if they could simply move up in next years draft by shipping a #1 and get a real franchise QB when Bradford comes out...assuming he comes out.

Taco John
04-21-2009, 03:05 AM
If Raji or Jackson is not there at 12, we should do everything we can to trade down and take more shots at DTs and LBs. And most importantly, take Ron Brace before Green Bay gets him in the second. We absolutely can't go empty handed as far as NTs go, and drafting one late is equivalent to not drafting one at all.

TheChamp24
04-21-2009, 03:21 AM
If Raji or Jackson is not there at 12, we should do everything we can to trade down and take more shots at DTs and LBs. And most importantly, take Ron Brace before Green Bay gets him in the second. We absolutely can't go empty handed as far as NTs go, and drafting one late is equivalent to not drafting one at all.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading down, to only trade up in the 2nd round really.
Get Louis Delmas, Ron Brace, maybe Mack or Unger to shore up the middle of the line.

kappys
04-21-2009, 06:50 AM
I can't believe anyone thinks we are set at any position on the front 7. Are these the same guys that played in the crushed orange front seven for us last year?

Personally the only spots I think we have legit players at are ILB (WILB = DJ/WW, SILB = Davis/Larsen) and one DE spot (Marcus Thomas was very effective in Slowik's crappy 3-4 scheme last year as a DE - I think it will continue). Doom may or may not be effective - but we probably at least have to take the chance that he will be since you can't address every spot at once.

baja
04-21-2009, 07:11 AM
Well I'll take out 5 year rebuild over your 30 year rebuild any day. ;D

Beantown Bronco
04-21-2009, 07:52 AM
I bet Bowlen had to agree to guarantee McD he would have at least two years to work with before he took the job.

Well, if you want to be technical, he guaranteed him a 4 year contract at $2 mil per year. ;D

baja
04-21-2009, 08:08 AM
Well, if you want to be technical, he guaranteed him a 4 year contract at $2 mil per year. ;D

True but I'm saying McD made it clear this change over to his system would not be a one season process and got some assurances from Bowlen that he understood that. My statement was in response to the claim McD had to win this year therefore he did not have the luxury of trading picks this year for more picks next year and I think he does have that flexibility.

Beantown Bronco
04-21-2009, 08:12 AM
Just bustin' em.

I agree. Unless they go 0-16 or so this season and the team completely quits on him (or McDaniels commits a major felony), I think it's safe to say that he'll be around for at least two seasons.