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View Full Version : OT: Small-Claims Court


TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 09:59 AM
Anyone ever been? I'm being taken to small claims court by a company that was supposed to clean my house and did not do the job they "guaranteed" they would do. Didn't bother sweeping or mopping, didn't clean the microwave, didn't do jack, truthfully. But wanted 3 hours worth of pay for doing what I can do in an hour (and do a better job).

I told them I would pay them for the hour they did, that I had to use the remainder of the money to hire a different service. Didn't hear anything back, until I got a summons.

I'm incredibly pissed off, obviously, but I've never been to small-claims court, so I don't really know what to expect. Any tips? Hints?

Gracias.

PS: Don't hire "Klean It Up Services" or "Clean It Up Services" (in the time I've been working with them, they've changed from a C to a K).

maher_tyler
04-16-2009, 10:03 AM
Anyone ever been? I'm being taken to small claims court by a company that was supposed to clean my house and did not do the job they "guaranteed" they would do. Didn't bother sweeping or mopping, didn't clean the microwave, didn't do jack, truthfully. But wanted 3 hours worth of pay for doing what I can do in an hour (and do a better job).

I told them I would pay them for the hour they did, that I had to use the remainder of the money to hire a different service. Didn't hear anything back, until I got a summons.

I'm incredibly pissed off, obviously, but I've never been to small-claims court, so I don't really know what to expect. Any tips? Hints?

Gracias.

PS: Don't hire "Klean It Up Services" or "Clean It Up Services" (in the time I've been working with them, they've changed from a C to a K).

Not sure...its your word versus theirs. I doubt they make you pay though...or they do and the cleaners have to come back and do the job they were paid to do!!

USMCBladerunner
04-16-2009, 10:07 AM
Dig into that guarantee as much as you can. Ask for documentaiton that itemizes their tasks/time.

To make sure I get this...they are taking you to small claims court over two hours of labor? What are their rates?

snowspot66
04-16-2009, 10:07 AM
Got pictures?

tsiguy96
04-16-2009, 10:09 AM
they changed their name huh, thats funny, likely a tax related or lawsuit related issue...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 10:14 AM
Dig into that guarantee as much as you can. Ask for documentaiton that itemizes their tasks/time.

To make sure I get this...they are taking you to small claims court over two hours of labor? What are their rates?

They "itemized" their time, but didn't do more than half the stuff on the list.

They charged $25/hr. I'm not a rich man, and I don't throw money around, but for good service, I'll happily pay a premium.

Oh, and I left out the best part. The bill came to $75. I offered to pay $25 (as they'd done, roughly, 1/3rd of the work on my 650 Sq. Ft. apartment). They're taking me to Small Claims for $500.

Lemme run that by you again. $500. For a $75 bill. For work they didn't do.

I don't have pictures, unfortunately. But I do have an email from them, stating that since it wasn't to my liking, they would come back and finish the job. But after I balled them out like that, I did NOT want them alone in my place, lest they break every breakable object therein.

mr007
04-16-2009, 10:18 AM
They "itemized" their time, but didn't do more than half the stuff on the list.

They charged $25/hr. I'm not a rich man, and I don't throw money around, but for good service, I'll happily pay a premium.

Oh, and I left out the best part. The bill came to $75. I offered to pay $25 (as they'd done, roughly, 1/3rd of the work on my 650 Sq. Ft. apartment). They're taking me to Small Claims for $500.

Lemme run that by you again. $500. For a $75 bill. For work they didn't do.

I don't have pictures, unfortunately. But I do have an email from them, stating that since it wasn't to my liking, they would come back and finish the job. But after I balled them out like that, I did NOT want them alone in my place, lest they break every breakable object therein.

I've been to small claims court multiple times. First off, they are supposed to make an attempt at resolution prior to providing you with a summons to small claims court. Secondly, they cannot try to come after you for more than the money you owe them.

Honestly, it's $50. The burden of proof is on them to provide documentation that you requested services and agreed to pay them x amount of dollars for those services. The judge will go either way on this one, but there's no way in hell you'd be on the hook for $500. Any documentation you have stating they did not complete the services would greatly benefit you. That email is probably all you need, as they did not perform as they should have, and offered to rectify the situation to which you refused because you received such ****ty service. I seriously doubt you'd lose that one.

theAPAOps5
04-16-2009, 10:19 AM
Well based on your last post you are in trouble. They offered to remedy the situation and you did not give them that opportunity. The $500 comes from legal fees and what not I bet.

worm
04-16-2009, 10:19 AM
Do you have the bill from the service you did immediately following this failed work? Was that work completed within a 3 day time window?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 10:22 AM
Do you have the bill from the service you did immediately following this failed work? Was that work completed within a 3 day time window?

No, it was about a week later. Reputable cleaning services actually have other clients, so it's harder to schedule time.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 10:24 AM
I just wouldn't show. They don't have your social so they can't put a collection against you.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 10:27 AM
I just wouldn't show. They don't have your social so they can't put a collection against you.

Nah, I'm not down with that. They have my name and address, and enough info on me that a sheriff's deputy showed up with the summons.

BroncoLifer
04-16-2009, 10:48 AM
Well based on your last post you are in trouble. They offered to remedy the situation and you did not give them that opportunity. The $500 comes from legal fees and what not I bet.

In Colorado, legal fees are NOT recoverable in Small Claims Court. The whole idea of Small Claims Court is that it is just you, the accuser, witnesses and the judge or magistrate -- no lawyers.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 10:51 AM
Nah, I'm not down with that. They have my name and address, and enough info on me that a sheriff's deputy showed up with the summons.

If you got the summons you have to go, but I would have not answered the door. And if they left the summons on my door I wouldn't have touched it.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 10:54 AM
If you got the summons you have to go, but I would have not answered the door. And if they left the summons on my door I wouldn't have touched it.

Sadly, I wasn't even home. My girlfriend answered the door, and was ****ing PISSED at me when I got home.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 10:55 AM
Well based on your last post you are in trouble. They offered to remedy the situation and you did not give them that opportunity. The $500 comes from legal fees and what not I bet.

What legal fees would they possibly be able to tack on? Colorado small claims court does not allow lawyers except in special circumstances and they can't just pull numbers out of thin air.

Now they did offer a "remedy" to the situation which Moose refused, but after what they did, refusing to allow them to work again is not entirely unreasonable. At the same time, Moose offered to pay for the services they did provide, so he has that advantage.

I just wouldn't show. They don't have your social so they can't put a collection against you.

Garcia, you are an effing moron if you are serious with this statement. Not only do they NOT have to have your social to put collections on your credit report, but if they are awarded a judgment they can use the court to force the defendant to disclose all kinds of personal information that can be used to satisfy the judgment.

Not only that, but then the judgment would almost certainly hit his credit report and that is much more damaging than a collection account and a real PITA to remove. Trust me, I help people repair their credit all the time.

Not showing up to court is, bar none, the worst thing he could do. Why don't you step aside and let the people who know a little bit about this handle it, ok?

theAPAOps5
04-16-2009, 10:55 AM
In Colorado, legal fees are NOT recoverable in Small Claims Court. The whole idea of Small Claims Court is that it is just you, the accuser, witnesses and the judge or magistrate -- no lawyers.

Ah thanks for that I didn't know, never been.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 10:56 AM
If you got the summons you have to go, but I would have not answered the door. And if they left the summons on my door I wouldn't have touched it.

Dude, leave this thread. Your advice is absolutely horrible.

I hope you aren't out advising out people to do this ****, because you could seriously cause them problems.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 10:58 AM
Dude, leave this thread. Your advice is absolutely horrible.

I hope you aren't out advising out people to do this ****, because you could seriously cause them problems.

Bull****. I have done several times and it's never a problem. Take your dumb cop ass down the road. Shouldn't you be out racial profiling people.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 10:58 AM
Thanks for all the responses. I feel pretty good about my chances... hoping that the worst case scenario is I have to pay them $75. But I have a HUGE temper problem, so I need to figure out how to calm that down when I'm speaking to the judge/magistrate/whatever.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 10:59 AM
I've been to small claims court multiple times. First off, they are supposed to make an attempt at resolution prior to providing you with a summons to small claims court. Secondly, they cannot try to come after you for more than the money you owe them.

Honestly, it's $50. The burden of proof is on them to provide documentation that you requested services and agreed to pay them x amount of dollars for those services. The judge will go either way on this one, but there's no way in hell you'd be on the hook for $500. Any documentation you have stating they did not complete the services would greatly benefit you. That email is probably all you need, as they did not perform as they should have, and offered to rectify the situation to which you refused because you received such ****ty service. I seriously doubt you'd lose that one.

Good post. The only possible problem I could see is the court not allowing the email (they can be easily tampered with of course) but he should still try to use it. Hopefully he'll get lucky and the judge will allow it and/or the cleaning company will admit to sending it.

BroncoBuff
04-16-2009, 11:00 AM
Anyone ever been? I'm being taken to small claims court by a company that was supposed to clean my house and did not do the job they "guaranteed" they would do. Didn't bother sweeping or mopping, didn't clean the microwave, didn't do jack, truthfully. But wanted 3 hours worth of pay for doing what I can do in an hour (and do a better job).

I told them I would pay them for the hour they did, that I had to use the remainder of the money to hire a different service. Didn't hear anything back, until I got a summons.

I'm incredibly pissed off, obviously, but I've never been to small-claims court, so I don't really know what to expect. Any tips? Hints?

Gracias.

PS: Don't hire "Klean It Up Services" or "Clean It Up Services" (in the time I've been working with them, they've changed from a C to a K).

A few tips: Understand that you're behind the 8-Ball because you didn't pay - you need to show WHY you didn't pay.

You really need pictures and/or a third party testimony about the condition of the unit after they finished. Anybody who saw the unit after the "Klean Up" is a valuable witness ... two witnesses if you can.

If the landlord dinged you for cleaning - deducted it from your damage/cleaning deposit - that would be golden. Get the letter where s/he deducted cleaning costs from the deposit if there is one. THAT WOULD BE GOLDEN.

And press the Guarantee you mentioned ... that is another big defense for you. Make color photocopies of their "Klean Up" ad that includes the guarantee.

Get those witnesses, bring any photos, bring color copies of their ad with the guarantee, and bring the landlord cleaning deposit deduction letter.

Finally, forget your argument, "I could have done better in less time," that's not relevant.


IN COURT: Do not get angry under any circumstances, and do not interrupt. Don't even look at the other party, just look at the judge, and MAKE EYE CONTACT WITH THE JUDGE when you speak.

And prepare yourself for a split decision ... this sounds like a classic Small Claims split the baby result ... you'll prolly have to pay a portion of their fee.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:00 AM
Garcia, you are an effing moron if you are serious with this statement. Not only do they NOT have to have your social to put collections on your credit report, but if they are awarded a judgment they can use the court to force the defendant to disclose all kinds of personal information that can be used to satisfy the judgment.

Not only that, but then the judgment would almost certainly hit his credit report and that is much more damaging than a collection account and a real PITA to remove. Trust me, I help people repair their credit all the time.

Not showing up to court is, bar none, the worst thing he could do. Why don't you step aside and let the people who know a little bit about this handle it, ok?

You do not have to appear in court if you do not have a summons. You are a puupet and of course you would say what you have said.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:01 AM
Bull****. I have done several times and it's never a problem. Take your dumb cop ass down the road. Shouldn't you be out racial profiling people.

You are a dumbass Garcia, plain and goddamn simple. Refusing summonses is INSANE! Do you even have a clue about this kind of thing? Do you know that they have laws specifically to deal with this kind of thing? They can mail the summonses to you, post it on your property or even post it in the newspaper. It's called Alternative Methods to Service and almost every court has such laws.

And then advising people to not show up for court?

You are a dumbass.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:05 AM
Refusing summonses is INSANE! Do you even have a clue about this kind of thing? Do you know that they have laws specifically to deal with this kind of thing? They can mail the summonses to you, post it on your property or even post it in the newspaper. It's called Alternative Methods to Service and almost every court has such laws.

They would still have to prve you got the summons, which they can't. They have to have your signature to prove it.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:06 AM
You do not have to appear in court if you do not have a summons. You are a puupet and of course you would say what you have said.

Again, you are a dumbass.

If you are being sued, you have to show up in court or you'll get royally ****ed. As I mentioned above, courts have laws to get around people who refuse service. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!

If he didn't show, they could be awarded the full $500 and then use the court to lien his property, levy his bank accounts, garnish his wages...etc. Your advice was so wrong it's mind boggling.

And your police references are just as moronic. You must have missed the part where this is a CIVIL case. Secondly, I just helped a friend of mine beat a lawsuit over a repossession in Atlanta.

Get out of here with your bull**** advice. You don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:08 AM
Again, you are a dumbass.

If you are being sued, you have to show up in court or you'll get royally ****ed. As I mentioned above, courts have laws to get around people who refuse service. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!

If he didn't show, they could be awarded the full $500 and then use the court to lien his property, levy his bank accounts, garnish his wages...etc. Your advice was so wrong it's mind boggling.

And your police references are just as moronic. You must have missed the part where this is a CIVIL case. Secondly, I just helped a friend of mine beat a lawsuit over a repossession in Atlanta.

Get out of here with your bull**** advice. You don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about.

Look , if you don't get a summons they can't do any of that **** in a civil case. And they'll spend more time, energy, and effort to get that 500 bean than it's worth. Which is why SCC is a joke.

BroncoBuff
04-16-2009, 11:09 AM
Any decent Small Claims Court monitors service from the clerk's office, you can't really cheat. They certify mail the papers to the address you give them.

And dodging service is a fool's errand, it never works. At most, it gets you a delay.


Look , if you don't get a summons they can't do any of that **** in a civil case. And they'll spend more time, energy, and effort to get that 500 bean than it's worth. Which is why SCC is a joke.

Actually, the joke in SCC in the difficulty in collecting on a judgment. Good luck on that with any private party. Best way is to send a Certified copy of the Abstract of Judgment to all three credit bureaus ... that'll mean they have to clear the judgment before they can buy a car or house or get any credit.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 11:10 AM
Gentlemen, please. I'm not going to pull a no-show. It's not even an issue. Hopefully, anyone who was in this situation wouldn't either, and if I was just not going to show, I wouldn't be asking for advice on a message board.

Thanks for all the info. Any additional would be helpful.

Buff, much obliged for the info. I'm printing off your response right now. Rep.

Thanks to everyone else as well.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:13 AM
Any decent Small Claims Court monitors service from the clerk's office, you can't really cheat. They certify mail the papers to the address you give them.

And dodging service is a fool's errand, it never works. At most, it gets you a delay.




Actually, the joke in SCC in the difficulty in collecting on a judgment. Good luck ... best way is to send a Certified copty of the Abstract of Judgment to all three credit bureaus.


You can dispute the charge on your credit and get it dropped and for even certified mail to work someone has to be there to take it. Most times they give up.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:13 AM
You do not have to appear in court if you do not have a summons. You are a puupet and of course you would say what you have said.

Garcia, let me make this very clear for you. If you are avoiding the summons THEY WILL USE ALTERNATE METHODS!! In Denver small claims court, they can also serve you by certified mail. And guess what Garcia, refusal to accept that letter will not protect you! There is plenty of caselaw where people have refused those letters and then found out the case went forward and they had a default judgment against them.

rugbythug
04-16-2009, 11:14 AM
OK- SO I have like 6-8 old leases where the People skipped out on them owing me money. Should I be suing all these people?

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:16 AM
Garcia, let me make this very clear for you. If you are avoiding the summons THEY WILL USE ALTERNATE METHODS!! In Denver small claims court, they can also serve you by certified mail. And guess what Garcia, refusal to accept that letter will not protect you! There is plenty of caselaw where people have refused those letters and then found out the case went forward and they had a default judgment against them.

You would have to go to the post office to get the certified mail. Trust me, I have dealt with this several times on the same type of thing. Service provider A says they provide service X and they did not provide the service as stated in an agreement. So they didn't get paid. You don't have to answer every frivilous charged just because some a-hole filed a couple of pieces of paper. You stall them long enough and they give up because the cost out weighs the results.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:17 AM
You can dispute the charge on your credit and get it dropped and for even certified mail to work someone has to be there to take it. Most times they give up.

:rofl:

Dude, again you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Disputing judgments involves the credit bureaus checking the court records online through PACER or the court's website. It's very easily done.

Judgments are very tough to remove. Trust me, I've helped people with this exact same matter.

Now leave the thread and let the big boys handle this.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:18 AM
OK- SO I have like 6-8 old leases where the People skipped out on them owing me money. Should I be suing all these people?

You have to look at what your gain would actually be. You'll waste a great deal of time and money chasing something that will most likely never ever be realized.

snowspot66
04-16-2009, 11:18 AM
Garcia, let me make this very clear for you. If you are avoiding the summons THEY WILL USE ALTERNATE METHODS!! In Denver small claims court, they can also serve you by certified mail. And guess what Garcia, refusal to accept that letter will not protect you! There is plenty of caselaw where people have refused those letters and then found out the case went forward and they had a default judgment against them.

You're missing what he's saying. He's not answering the door. They can't leave it there without a signature. They can pound on his door all day but he's sitting in a room with the lights turned off and waiting for them to give up. He's not refusing to accept the letter. He's simply making it so he's never in a situation where he can accept the letter.

In the end it's 75 bucks. Why not go?

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:19 AM
:rofl:

Dude, again you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Disputing judgments involves the credit bureaus checking the court records online through PACER or the court's website. It's very easily done.

Judgments are very tough to remove. Trust me, I've helped people with this exact same matter.

Now leave the thread and let the big boys handle this.

Judgements are not tough to remove provided you do it the right way.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:24 AM
[Facepalm]

Garcia, you are one thick headed dude, you know that?

You would have to go to the post office to get the certified mail. Duh, that's the whole point.

Trust me, I have dealt with this several times on the same type of thing. :spit: Pardon me if I'm skeptical.

Service provider A says they provide service X and they did not provide the service as stated in an agreement. So they didn't get paid. Hey numbskull, that certified letter is sent BY THE COURT!

You don't have to answer every frivilous charged just because some a-hole filed a couple of pieces of paper. Sure, you don't have to answer those suits. The courts will be happy to award the plantiff a default judgment granting them whatever they ask for.

They have no problem doing that to people who stick their head in the sand.

You stall them long enough and they give up because the cost out weighs the results. Ignoring SUMMONS will stall nothing.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:26 AM
You're missing what he's saying. He's not answering the door. They can't leave it there without a signature. They can pound on his door all day but he's sitting in a room with the lights turned off and waiting for them to give up. He's not refusing to accept the letter. He's simply making it so he's never in a situation where he can accept the letter.

In the end it's 75 bucks. Why not go?

He's talking about ignoring the summons, period. If he won't accept service, the court sends it certified mail. Ignore that, and the court WILL go forward with the case.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:29 AM
Judgements are not tough to remove provided you do it the right way.

COMPLETE BULL****! All the credit bureaus have to do is check their court records and find the suit. In this age of electronic records, it's EASILY DONE!

You do NOT know what you are talking about.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:30 AM
[Facepalm]

Garcia, you are one thick headed dude, you know that?



That's what all the ladies say. :P

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:31 AM
COMPLETE BULL****! All the credit bureaus have to do is check their court records and find the suit. In this age of electronic records, it's EASILY DONE!

You do NOT know what you are talking about.

Like a said before, you are a bias court monkey. Of course you'll say that, but the reality is different. In our example here, he's already gotten the summons and will have to appear. And most likely he'll beat the complaint, because they didn't provide the service.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:33 AM
Gentlemen, please. I'm not going to pull a no-show. It's not even an issue. Hopefully, anyone who was in this situation wouldn't either, and if I was just not going to show, I wouldn't be asking for advice on a message board.

Thanks for all the info. Any additional would be helpful.

Buff, much obliged for the info. I'm printing off your response right now. Rep.

Thanks to everyone else as well.

Sorry man, I'm not meaning to hijack your thread but what he said was so horribly wrong I couldn't risk some newb finding this thread and following that advice.

Buff gave you pretty solid advice. The only thing I could really add is to contact the company that had to clean the apartment after the first company. Simply showing a bill having the same service done again would be a great help to you. You might get lucky and they will write a letter or serve as a witness stating what kind of shape the place was in before they cleaned it.

You might also check Colorado consumer billing laws. Pulling that $500 out of thin air might just be illegal and you can file a counterclaim.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:35 AM
Like a said before, you are a bias court monkey. Of course you'll say that, but the reality is different.

ROFL! LOL Hilarious!

Dude, you have nothing. These are CIVIL cases. Criminal law, and by proxing, the police have no interest in this. You also conviently ignored the part about me helping people FIGHT these lawsuits and repair their credit.

Trying to paint me with that brush ain't gonna work.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 11:38 AM
Like a said before, you are a bias court monkey. Of course you'll say that, but the reality is different. In our example here, he's already gotten the summons and will have to appear. And most likely he'll beat the complaint, because they didn't provide the service.

Court monkey?

http://www.ukuleleman.net/uploaded_images/Monkey%20Judge-741537.jpg

BroncoBuff
04-16-2009, 11:40 AM
He's talking about ignoring the summons, period. If he won't accept service, the court sends it certified mail. Ignore that, and the court WILL go forward with the case.

That's correct. I'm not doubting Garcia has had successes using some of these tactics, but I don't recommend following his advice. His experiences are the exception, they sound unusual to say the least ... for example, if you could avoid service by simply refusing to sign the summons, the leagl system would break down completely.

MooseGuy ... one more thing: Bring the letter where you offered to pay 1 hour. Don't offer it as evidence unless the judge asks, "have you guys tried to settle this?" Then have it ready. As several have mentioned in here, a good faith effort to settle goes a long way in SCC. If the judge thinks the plaintiff refused to negotiate in good faith, he might dismiss the case in its entirety.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:44 AM
That's correct. I'm not doubting Garcia has had successes using some of these tactics, but I don't recommend following his advice. His experiences are the exception, they sound unusual to say the least ... for example, if you could avoid service by simply refusing to sign the summons, the leagl system would break down completely.


You can't refuse it standing there at the door with the sheriff. All you do it not answer the door, and don't go pickup the certified letter from the post office. The post office will return the letter after 10 days or so and the court won't even be sure they have the right address.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:54 AM
Court monkey?

http://www.ukuleleman.net/uploaded_images/Monkey%20Judge-741537.jpg

LOL. I told you what I would do, but if I were you I would have an attorney handle it. But again, that will cost you more than the 75 beans to begin with.

cutthemdown
04-16-2009, 11:55 AM
Thanks for all the responses. I feel pretty good about my chances... hoping that the worst case scenario is I have to pay them $75. But I have a HUGE temper problem, so I need to figure out how to calm that down when I'm speaking to the judge/magistrate/whatever.

It will be tough for you to win IMO. Hard to prove the cleaning was substandard and easy to prove they provided the service. You are talking about quality of a service which is tough to prove in a courtroom several months later.

IMO the best idea is to offer the company 50 bucks to drop the whole thing.

Irish Stout
04-16-2009, 11:55 AM
OK- SO I have like 6-8 old leases where the People skipped out on them owing me money. Should I be suing all these people?

The answer is entirely dependant on whether or not its worth it to you. First, make sure your leases include provisions for being able to collect collection costs and attorney fees. You can then hire an attorney, who will do all the leg work for you and tell you what to do, what is needed, and when to show up in court. You might also consider assigning these debts to a collection agency... they will pay you a fraction of what they collect, but you may collect something without doing the work.

Second, determine whether or not you will be able to find the people who breached the lease for collection purposes. If this is going to be a big pain in your ass or cost you a lot out of pocket, then consider assinging the debt or giving up on it.

If you decide that its worth it to go for it, then good luck... you're going to win judgments against these guys, but collection is an uphill battle.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 11:58 AM
LOL. I told you what I would do, but if I were you I would have an attorney handle it. But again, that will cost you more than the 75 beans to begin with.

In Denver small claims court attorneys cannot get involved unless there are certain circumstances. This case doesn't meet any of them that I see.

Beantown Bronco
04-16-2009, 12:01 PM
I'm being taken to small claims court by a company that was supposed to clean my house and did not do the job they "guaranteed" they would do.

I'll give you a guarantee:

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Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 12:02 PM
In Denver small claims court attorneys cannot get involved unless there are certain circumstances. This case doesn't meet any of them that I see.

I am not sure about Colorado SCC, but in Vrginia you are certainly allowed one.

Attorneys: Not allowed unless attorney represents self or as full-time employee of partnership or corporation involved in the case. If attorney appears, other side may also have attorney

I would imagine denying you an attorney violates the US Constitution. Either way you can still consult legal advice from a Colorado Attorney.

Irish Stout
04-16-2009, 12:06 PM
Gentlemen, please. I'm not going to pull a no-show. It's not even an issue. Hopefully, anyone who was in this situation wouldn't either, and if I was just not going to show, I wouldn't be asking for advice on a message board.

Thanks for all the info. Any additional would be helpful.

Buff, much obliged for the info. I'm printing off your response right now. Rep.

Thanks to everyone else as well.

Moose dude - This is there case, it is their burden to prove via witness testimony and evidence that they provided service to you at some rate. This will be easy for them to prove. You have affirmative defenses though in breach of contract and breach of warranty.

Here's what I suggest: When they are putting on their case, object any time they offer evidence that you have never seen before. Simply stand up and say objection, foundation and relevance. The judge might smirk at you, but you'll throw the other party off their game and it will be fun. Plus, you may keep them from submitting any documented evidence that you've never seen (although you are entitled to review it before hand if you serve them a written request for it).

They're going to be able to show they cleaned your house. You have to essentially show that they charged $25/hour and that they only worked 3 hours. Whatever documented evidence to this effect you have, collect it. Next, you want to show somewhere that they have given the express warranty (guarantee) for a clean home. Testify yourself and have your gf or someone else who saw the home testify that it wasn't clean. You don't need pictures anymore than they do. Finally close by stating that a) they are not entitled to $500 as the contract was for $75; b) they are not entitled to $75 because they failed to adequately clean the home as is guaranteed; c) that even if they put in $75 worth of work, and that no express guarantee is found, they failed to adequately perform under the implied warranty that service would be done in a reasonable and expected fashion.

Good luck, and your case isn't that bad if you can have testimony in your favor that the cleaning was shoddy.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 12:06 PM
I am not sure about Colorado SCC, but in Vrginia you are certainly allowed one and the rule on their website is unclear about this.:

Attorneys: Not allowed unless attorney represents self or as full-time employee of partnership or corporation involved in the case. If attorney appears, other side may also have attorney

So it sounds like you can have one, but then they say you aren't allowed. I would imagine denying you an attorney violates the US Constitution. Either way you can still consult legal advice from a Colorado Attorney.

It's pretty clear to me. If the one side meets the criteria for having an attorney present, the other side may have one present to even the score.

The whole point of SCC is for consumers to have the ability to handle these affairs in a less formal climate without the need to waste money on attorneys. If you want your attorney to do battle with theirs, you need to take it to district court.

cutthemdown
04-16-2009, 12:07 PM
In Denver small claims court attorneys cannot get involved unless there are certain circumstances. This case doesn't meet any of them that I see.

Is it even worth it over 50 bucks? I hear lawyers tell people at the office all the time that suing people for small amounts of damage, or risk being sued for a small amount, is just not worth it.

To me its worth 50 bucks to not have to go to small claims court.

Unless it's 500 bucks or more I don't think I would do it. I make more in a day then 50 bucks. Until it was about 2 days worth of work I would say screw it.

If you need revenge then blog about how bad of a job they do, tell everyone you know not to use them, follow them around on a day off and picket while they clean etc etc.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 12:08 PM
Is it even worth it over 50 bucks? I hear lawyers tell people at the office all the time that suing people for small amounts of damage, or risk being sued for a small amount, is just not worth it.

To me its worth 50 bucks to not have to go to small claims court.

Unless it's 500 bucks or more I don't think I would do it. I make more in a day then 50 bucks. Until it was about 2 days worth of work I would say screw it.

If you need revenge then blog about how bad of a job they do, tell everyone you know not to use them, follow them around on a day off and picket while they clean etc etc.

That's up to Moose.

Irish Stout
04-16-2009, 12:08 PM
I am not sure about Colorado SCC, but in Vrginia you are certainly allowed one.

Attorneys: Not allowed unless attorney represents self or as full-time employee of partnership or corporation involved in the case. If attorney appears, other side may also have attorney

I would imagine denying you an attorney violates the US Constitution. Either way you can still consult legal advice from a Colorado Attorney.

Garcia is close here.

A defendant in a small claims action is entitled to an attorney. Once the defendant requests an attorney, the plaintiff can also seek counsel. Then the attorneys will charge you 3 times what the case is worth.

cutthemdown
04-16-2009, 12:09 PM
It's pretty clear to me. If the one side meets the criteria for having an attorney present, the other side may have one present to even the score.

The whole point of SCC is for consumers to have the ability to handle these affairs in a less formal climate without the need to waste money on attorneys. If you want your attorney to do battle with theirs, you need to take it to district court.

yep where the damages would have to be over a certain amount. Here in CA anything under 5000.00 is small claims. I think........ Don't quote me on that though.

Honestly 500 dollars might be the minimum you can sue for. Not sure if you can sue for 1 dollar etc, or even 50 dollars.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 12:13 PM
Garcia is close here.

A defendant in a small claims action is entitled to an attorney. Once the defendant requests an attorney, the plaintiff can also seek counsel. Then the attorneys will charge you 3 times what the case is worth.

Yeah I'm seeing that now too.

cutthemdown
04-16-2009, 12:14 PM
That's up to Moose.

Just my 2 cents. Of course men get to make own decisions.

You have to ask yourself what your time is worth etc, how much it really means to you. Stubborn people I would guess would go to the bitter end. Me I would have probably paid the 75 bucks and then not used them again etc.

I have a girl I have known for 10 yrs that cleans my house once every 2 weeks. She spends all day, like 5-6 hours, and I give her 100 bucks.

I doubt I would ever feel comfortable having a stranger in my house cleaning. Too much money around, too many expensive musical instruments and gear etc. I always worry these house cleaners that work for big companies go and tell people like boyfriends, brothers, etc, what houses have the good stuff in them.

I'd be very interested to see a stat that shows whether or not houses that get cleaned professionally have a higher % of burglaries.

Burglars love to know whats in a house before they go in. Getting information from a house cleaner would seem a no brainer for someone in that field of work.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 12:14 PM
yep where the damages would have to be over a certain amount. Here in CA anything under 5000.00 is small claims. I think........ Don't quote me on that though.

Honestly 500 dollars might be the minimum you can sue for. Not sure if you can sue for 1 dollar etc, or even 50 dollars.

7500 and under for Colorado. I didn't see a min though

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 12:32 PM
Moose, check your PM's bro.

Crushaholic
04-16-2009, 12:34 PM
Sadly, I wasn't even home. My girlfriend answered the door, and was ****ing PISSED at me when I got home.

Pissed at you? That's rather screwed up...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-16-2009, 12:40 PM
If you need revenge then blog about how bad of a job they do, tell everyone you know not to use them, follow them around on a day off and picket while they clean etc etc.

Done and done. Do a google search for "Klean it Up Services."

BroncoBuff
04-16-2009, 12:43 PM
www.RipoffReport.com (http://www.RipoffReport.com)

rugbythug
04-16-2009, 12:44 PM
Just my 2 cents. Of course men get to make own decisions.

You have to ask yourself what your time is worth etc, how much it really means to you. Stubborn people I would guess would go to the bitter end. Me I would have probably paid the 75 bucks and then not used them again etc.

I have a girl I have known for 10 yrs that cleans my house once every 2 weeks. She spends all day, like 5-6 hours, and I give her 100 bucks.

I doubt I would ever feel comfortable having a stranger in my house cleaning. Too much money around, too many expensive musical instruments and gear etc. I always worry these house cleaners that work for big companies go and tell people like boyfriends, brothers, etc, what houses have the good stuff in them.

I'd be very interested to see a stat that shows whether or not houses that get cleaned professionally have a higher % of burglaries.

Burglars love to know whats in a house before they go in. Getting information from a house cleaner would seem a no brainer for someone in that field of work.

This Juice Hound I knew hired someone to clean his house and they cleaned out his stash. Like 3K worth of Test, D-bol and various other things. I think they took all the money they could find too. What could he do turn them in?

RhymesayersDU
04-16-2009, 01:20 PM
Bull****. I have done several times and it's never a problem. Take your dumb cop ass down the road. Shouldn't you be out racial profiling people.

Why am I not surprised such a classy guy like Garcia Troll has been served with a lawsuit several times?


Love it when things come into focus like this.

Garcia Bronco
04-16-2009, 01:26 PM
Why am I not surprised such a classy guy like Garcia Troll has been served with a lawsuit several times?


Love it when things come into focus like this.

LOL all because a made fun of your Denver Nuggets and kicked your buddy out of here.

I wouldn't classify them as lawsuits either, more like collections for services not provided just like the example cited here.

400HZ
04-16-2009, 01:31 PM
Garcia is close here.

A defendant in a small claims action is entitled to an attorney. Once the defendant requests an attorney, the plaintiff can also seek counsel. Then the attorneys will charge you 3 times what the case is worth.

If you are talking about a $50 bill, then it will be a lot more than 3 times what the case is worth. Also, while a judge cannot block you from receiving professional legal counsel outside of the courtroom, they decide who can appear in their court. That probably applies less in lawsuit-happy states like California, but I know in less stupid states like North Dakota that a judge will not allow lawyers to appear in small claims court unless there are special circumstances. The whole point of small claims court is to cut expensive lawyers out of the process and allow both parties to reach a cheap resolution on a cheap lawsuit. $250/hr lawyers don't jive with that.

Gort
04-16-2009, 02:03 PM
In Colorado, legal fees are NOT recoverable in Small Claims Court. The whole idea of Small Claims Court is that it is just you, the accuser, witnesses and the judge or magistrate -- no lawyers.

we should all take a moment to savor those 2 words. a mere 3 syllables, but never in the history of the English language have two words dovetailed together so perfectly. and sounded so well in sequence...

No. Lawyers.

Shakespeare himself would be proud.


A physician, an engineer and a lawyer were arguing about whose profession was the oldest.

The surgeon announced, "Remember how God removed a rib from Adam to create Eve? Obviously, medicine is the oldest profession."

The engineer replied, "But before that, God created the heavens and the earth from chaos, in less than a week. You have to admit that was a remarkable feat of engineering, and that makes engineering an older profession than medicine."

The lawyer smirked, and said, "Who do you think created the chaos?"

CHANGSTER
04-16-2009, 02:38 PM
Ive been a witness once but on the side getting sued. I was in a friends car completely stopped in traffic and we got hit by someone. The passenger actually sued my friend. The moron says to the judge in court, " if I don't win this, can I sue my friend that was driving?" The judge of course laughed in his face. We all laughed leaving the court room. The look on the idiots face was priceless.

cutthemdown
04-16-2009, 02:43 PM
This Juice Hound I knew hired someone to clean his house and they cleaned out his stash. Like 3K worth of Test, D-bol and various other things. I think they took all the money they could find too. What could he do turn them in?

I have no idea what Test, or D-bol is, but I get it. People you don't trust 100% should never be in your home unsupervised.

Besides we should all get off our asses and clean the house ourselves. If you have kids make them do it.

tonngo0
04-16-2009, 02:51 PM
Oh please, small claim court is nothing to worry about. All Moose needs to show the evidences that they didn't clean his place and show the other clean service fee after the first one didn't do their job. Small claim court has no lawyer.

enjolras
04-16-2009, 02:54 PM
Here's what I suggest: When they are putting on their case, object any time they offer evidence that you have never seen before. Simply stand up and say objection, foundation and relevance. The judge might smirk at you, but you'll throw the other party off their game and it will be fun. Plus, you may keep them from submitting any documented evidence that you've never seen (although you are entitled to review it before hand if you serve them a written request for it).

Up front: I'm not a lawyer. I am a business owner and have been in small claims several times settling various disputes (getting people to pay me/vice versa).

Small claims isn't Boston Legal. The whole thing is very quick and painless. There are no objections and no psuedo-legalese being thrown around. The judge is going to ask you for your side, as them for their side... and then issue a ruling. Watch an episode of the peoples court and you have a pretty good idea of the process. Typically the whole thing lasts less than 5 minutes.

I recommend coming prepared (pictures, bring your girlfriend, whatever...). But don't pretend like your a lawyer. I've won a couple of cases, I suspect, simply because the other side thought they were in an episode of LA Law. Small claims is meant to be an informal and quick way to settle disputes. Just present your side as clearly and concisely as you can...

Good luck:)

enjolras
04-16-2009, 02:56 PM
Oh, and also don't be surprised if the other side doesn't even bother to show. It's REALLY common for folks to file with small claims (it costs like $10) to pressure you to pay. If they don't show (which happens at least 50% of the time), you win.

cutthemdown
04-16-2009, 03:04 PM
Oh please, small claim court is nothing to worry about. All Moose needs to show the evidences that they didn't clean his place and show the other clean service fee after the first one didn't do their job. Small claim court has no lawyer.

There is a good chance he will lose. Hard to prove the job wasn't good, easy to prove that the workers were there for 3 hours.

Does he have pictures proving work wasn't good etc, a witness that can say it wasn't done right? etc etc.

There are no sure things in a courtroom, even small claims.

Having said that I am 2-0 in small claims court, but I have paralegal training and worked 3 yrs for the LA Public Defender, my brother is a practicing atty, so I had an advantage.

IMO the judge may look at him as a friggin deadbeat who would not pay his bill. Especially if the company has a bunch of statements from other clients saying they do a good job etc? You never know, this company may do this all the time and already know the judge who runs the small claims court in your area.

I would offer to the pay the 50 bucks, see if they will drop it, if not then try and find some evidence other people are not happy with their service. Make sure g/f wife, etc comes in and says i saw it, is was a crappy job, look for a former employee who will come in and say they tell us to go fast and not worry about customer satisfaction.

I wont go into details but I went to small claims with a hydrex pest control company. I played hard ball, got advice from my brother, and had a case with 2 witnesses, one of which was a former employee, pictures, diagrams, statements from neighbors. The look on the owners face when he realized how screwed he was, was worth all the effort.

So if in the right, and the person is going to show in court, show up with tons to support your view, don't expect judge to take your word for it. Show the judge you respect you needs information to make a good decision. Don't show him anything that is hearsay, in other words if your g/f said this job sucks, bring her and have her tell judge it sucked. Speak when spoken too, don't make faces while other person talks, dress nice etc.

BroncoBuff
04-17-2009, 12:11 AM
Having said that I am 2-0 in small claims court, but I have paralegal training and worked 3 yrs for the LA Public Defender, my brother is a practicing atty, so I had an advantage.

Awesome, I was an alternate PD (prvate counsel that takes PD conflicts) all through the 90's until 2003.

The Public Defender in L.A. County is/was named "Judge." :~ohyah!:

Popps
04-17-2009, 12:39 AM
Anyone ever been?


Hey Moose,

I've been once, and won. We took a landlord to court a long time ago who tried to screw us out of a hefty deposit. We took it to him and won, easily.

And... I'm actually headed back again now, years later. Sold a car to someone who came... test drove it... did their inspection, drove off.. then later, tried to claim the front suspension was ****ed up. (It wasn't.) He drove the car with me IN IT. I'm not sure if he's insane, or what. But, I'm not concerned. I even offered to pay a small amount (written) as a good-nature type gesture, even though I had NO probs with the front shocks, etc. He refused, and tried to basically extort a huge sum from me. So, **** 'em. He'll get nothing.

As for your situation, sounds to me like they're wasting their own time. They may well get their $50 out of you, but I have no idea where the $500 nonsense comes from.

My experience with small-claims (have some family in the courts, as well) is that it's generally no-nonsense. Cases happen quickly and the judge usually seems to be seeking true-intent, rather than trying to nitpick legal loopholes. So, he/she will want to know what the intent/delivery of both parties were... and quickly.

So, have whatever case you have preparted to a T. Write it out and be prepared to be concise. Also be prepared to simply get a series of yes or no questions. Every judge is different, and some are REALLY no-nonsense.

Buff and the legal types around here will have better advice, but those have been my experiences.

Also, you CAN DELAY this trial up to 15 days before. I highly suggest you do, if nothing else... just because. If you have ANY legitimate excuse for that day being bad for you, they'll postpone it for up to a couple of months. You can also check to be sure you're being sued in the right venue. If not, you can have it tossed out. Most small claims courts have a help-line, but the postpone thing is very simple, and just involves sending a form to the plaintiff and the clerk/judge.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-17-2009, 07:34 AM
Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate all the advice. I'll start working on writing out my case this weekend, see if I can dig up any more evidence.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-04-2009, 06:21 AM
So, my case is today at 10am. I'll be sure to drop back by and let y'all know how it went.

Florida_Bronco
05-04-2009, 06:22 AM
Good luck.

Beantown Bronco
05-04-2009, 06:30 AM
So, my case is today at 10am. I'll be sure to drop back by and let y'all know how it went.

I can't believe you're showing up. I thought we talked you out of that by now. :wiggle:

Mogulseeker
05-04-2009, 06:33 AM
So, my case is today at 10am. I'll be sure to drop back by and let y'all know how it went.

You didn't happen to write these articles, did you?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1647721/klean_it_up_services_cleaning_service.html?cat=8

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/444/RipOff0444124.htm

Popps
05-04-2009, 06:43 AM
So, my case is today at 10am. I'll be sure to drop back by and let y'all know how it went.

Mine is too, funny enough. (Here in LA)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-04-2009, 02:39 PM
You didn't happen to write these articles, did you?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1647721/klean_it_up_services_cleaning_service.html?cat=8

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/444/RipOff0444124.htm

Sure did. I'm excited that the AC article shows up as the top result in Google.

I was forced to pay the $75 fee, plus court costs (about $60+). What pisses me off isn't that I lost, or that I had to pay the $75. What pisses me off is that I had to pay $30 to file a response, have my day in court, then walk out paying THEIR court costs, ALL for a job that wasn't done.

In the future, I'm just going to pay the money and fire them. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

lostknight
05-04-2009, 02:54 PM
Be very very careful. Judicial decisions get written to your credit report, and can have a far greater effect then a collections notice.

Florida_Bronco
05-04-2009, 03:01 PM
Just curious...did you ever got to that website I PM'd to you and ask them for help?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-04-2009, 03:03 PM
Just curious...did you ever got to that website I PM'd to you and ask them for help?

Naw. I should have. My buddy is running for a state Senate vacancy, and I'm doing all his communications, so I got sucked in to that and really didn't do all my extra work for this. I should have done as you recommended. I did print off a lot of your advice and use it, though.

theAPAOps5
05-04-2009, 03:05 PM
Be very very careful. Judicial decisions get written to your credit report, and can have a far greater effect then a collections notice.

If its an open judgement yes. I had one on mine, I didn't even know I still owed any money. It was for a small fee but court costs were added. But once I took care of it it showed up closed and my credit score went up.

But I think it only goes on credit report if you dont' show and don't pay.

Florida_Bronco
05-04-2009, 03:06 PM
Naw. I should have. My buddy is running for a state Senate vacancy, and I'm doing all his communications, so I got sucked in to that and really didn't do all my extra work for this. I should have done as you recommended. I did print off a lot of your advice and use it, though.

That's a shame that you were so busy. But on the bright side you didn't get stuck with the $500 or so that they were shooting for.

I guess that in itself is a small victory.

El Minion
05-04-2009, 03:52 PM
www.RipoffReport.com (http://www.RipoffReport.com)
Yelp (http://www.yelp.com/) is also good

Florida_Bronco
05-04-2009, 05:29 PM
If its an open judgement yes. I had one on mine, I didn't even know I still owed any money. It was for a small fee but court costs were added. But once I took care of it it showed up closed and my credit score went up.

But I think it only goes on credit report if you dont' show and don't pay.

The paid judgments can still be reported. Whether they will or not depends alot on how up to date the Denver SCC are, meaning do they provide the court records for online viewing.

Ultimately though, he don't have much to worry about. Sure, his credit score might take a hit, but only for a little while. It shouldn't pose a problem, even if he needs a home or auto loan in the very near future.

footstepsfrom#27
05-04-2009, 05:40 PM
Don't make the judge mad.

http://www.purefiller.com/wp-content/uploads/mathis-300x289.jpg

Popps
05-04-2009, 05:58 PM
Be very very careful. Judicial decisions get written to your credit report, and can have a far greater effect then a collections notice.

Excellent advice.

Popps
05-04-2009, 05:59 PM
My case was this morning. Went exceedingly well, though I won't know the results for a couple of weeks. I'd be shocked if it's anything less than a full judgment in my favor. The guy really had no leg to stand on, and should have taken my offer to settle. Now, he'll likely get nothing.

We'll see.

GreatBronco16
05-04-2009, 06:22 PM
You have to look at what your gain would actually be. You'll waste a great deal of time and money chasing something that will most likely never ever be realized.

My parents rented their rental house to a couple of women. Well they tore the place up and took off owing about 6 months of rent along with the damages. They wanted to sue them, but the judge told them that it would be a waste of their time and money to try and pursue it. Said that they would never see that money. Now the judge did say after all of that, that he knew the people and had to deal with them before.

My thing is, why can they not arrest these people and throw them in jail?

Florida_Bronco
05-04-2009, 06:36 PM
My thing is, why can they not arrest these people and throw them in jail?

It's a civil matter.

GreatBronco16
05-04-2009, 07:22 PM
It's a civil matter.

That's it? A civil matter? So people can just do these kinds of things and not have to worry about jail time because of it being a civil matter? That seems pretty ****ty to me. Just saying.

Florida_Bronco
05-04-2009, 07:35 PM
That's it? A civil matter? So people can just do these kinds of things and not have to worry about jail time because of it being a civil matter? That seems pretty ****ty to me. Just saying.

That's basically it. If we arrest people who don't pay their rent, are we going to start arresting people who don't pay their credit card bills too?

It sure sucks that they did that to your parents, but unfortunately that's the risk all landlords make.

GreatBronco16
05-04-2009, 07:37 PM
That's basically it. If we arrest people who don't pay their rent, are we going to start arresting people who don't pay their credit card bills too?

It sure sucks that they did that to your parents, but unfortunately that's the risk all landlords make.

It's not as much of them not paying the rent, but the damage they did to the house. That is destruction of private property.

Florida_Bronco
05-04-2009, 07:56 PM
It's not as much of them not paying the rent, but the damage they did to the house. That is destruction of private property.

Yeah, but since they were legal tenants of the home it becomes a civil issue.

Your parents might check with the state though. If it can be determined that the damage was willful and malicious, then they might have some recourse with a criminal complaint.

broncocalijohn
05-09-2009, 12:14 PM
Concerning small claims court... if you have pictures, that always helps but the best thing for your proof is that you hired another cleaning service immediatley after the botched cleaning service. Bring that receipt and list of items they did for cleaning. Hopefully, the crew that cleaned remembers your home and can write (in english) a letter for the court. You offered $25 and they refused by wanting to come out and clean again. Let the judge know that you refused this option not based on the opinion that the job wasnt done to your satisfaction but that it wasnt done at all! If you only paid $50 to finish the job, you will probably need to pay the $25. If it was more, let the judge know that you were offering $25 because you thought it would only cost approximatley $50 to finish the job. Also, find dir ton the company. The name change might be because they have a ton of negative responses to their services. Check the old and new name under the Better Business Bureau and google the name for other websites that people can put positive and negative claims for or against the company. Dont worry about the $500 as they will be laughed at.

cutthemdown
05-09-2009, 02:31 PM
Awesome, I was an alternate PD (prvate counsel that takes PD conflicts) all through the 90's until 2003.

The Public Defender in L.A. County is/was named "Judge." :~ohyah!:

I was just a peon but I was there in late 90's soooooo. My boss was a guy names John Gonzales who managed the paralegals and the interns I guess.

All I ever did was do the pre-screening interviews for felony arraignments. Most of the other interns couldn't hang going into the cell area to take interviews.

Basically I was just trying to make sure there info was correct, and that they were eligible for the PD. I do remember the ALT PD at a table in the back of the courtroom where I took the cases the PD wasn't or couldn't.

Can't remember the name of the ATTY who usually the did the arraignments but she was a big ugly fat lady. I remember that.

Funny thing was even though I was a peon, after doing it for like 2-3 weeks I realized I was god. Guys would sit in those holding cells until I decided they got interviewed and went out into the court. If someone was rude to me, or didn't kiss my ass, I would bump them to the back and they could sit all day until the last bus back to county. LOL, those were the days.

HEY DUMPTRUCK!!!!!!!!!!! If you worked for the PD then you have heard that before.