PDA

View Full Version : 10 reasons we will be a top 15 defense


iforgotmypassword
04-13-2009, 04:30 PM
I posted some of this on another thread but wanted to know to hear some insight on it......I know I'll take some heat for this as people love to be pessimistic bout our D but I honestly beleive the defense improvements on this team are far more than people realize.

1. Last season ending - last season the whole attitude was simply that the defense was dragging the team down and the wheels just fell off, granted they were dragging us down, a new season brings a new attitude every single time

2. The injuries on Defense - Start of the new season again, we'll start out in full force and I simply can't see us being hit with the injury bug nearly as bad as last year

3. Our youth getting better - Larsen, Woodyard, Barrett, Jack Williams, Powell, Moss, Crowder, Thomas - although learning a new system, they will still be physically better than last year, it's a simple matter of being in a pro off-season program.

4. Returning talent, we honestly do have some talent on that Defense, Champ Bailey, DJ Williams (both missed tons of last year) Thomas is under-rated.... any talent we had is definately back cept for maybe Bly but he had ran his course

5. New Additions granted every off-season people get a little too excited for how good thier new blood are actually gonna be - we did improve the talent level, Brian Dawkins and Reynaldo Hill automatically make the weakest part of our team a very respected and experienced one. Goodman, Feilds, Andra Davis will all contribute.

6. Experience - we simply didn't have it this year and having youth is always good but you need somewhat of a balance.

7. Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan. he has definately created some of the best defenses of the modern era, and more so he makes linebackers better everywhere he goes he turns good linebackers into studs (DJ Williams?)

8. A more balanced offense - Last year we were deadly, but we slung that thing up every play, this year with more running backs (and hopefully less injuries there) I beleive we will have a more balanced offense that can get a lead maintain a lean or come from behind, people may disagree because Mickey D likes to pass alot, but the difference from last year is we [B]HAD TO PASS ALOT[B] liking to pass and having to pass are two completely different things.

9. Improved Specail teams - this always helps your offense and defense, and it's general rule of thumb that 3-4 teams have better specail teams because we have more linebacker builds to kick ass on ST. Plus we just simply can't be any worse than last year.

10. Draft Picks.... you'd have to catasrophically F this draft up to not add alot of talent to this D

SonOfLe-loLang
04-13-2009, 04:34 PM
Improved sure...top 15...dunno about that

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 04:35 PM
Whose on the defense again?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-13-2009, 04:36 PM
I'd be thrilled with top-20 play from our D.

NFLBRONCO
04-13-2009, 04:41 PM
I'd be thrilled with a 3 and out once every qtr this season.

DBBBSBS
04-13-2009, 04:41 PM
Whose on the defense again?

You are not there.. isn't that enough :welcome:

TDmvp
04-13-2009, 04:41 PM
Personally I thought if we had a safety last year who was breathing we would have been so much better ... I seen our safeties take angles and miss read stuff last year that you just can't do and make a pay check for it ...

montrose
04-13-2009, 04:47 PM
I actually think the defense will by much improved this season. Because the rankings are based on yardage I don't know how high we'll be ranked as I think the biggest improvements will come from increased turnovers and less TD's in the red zone. I can't put into words how bad our defensive coaching was. Was there a lack of talent? Sure. But the new staff of Nolan and the tremendous position coaches will not only instill a better scheme than we had last season but I believe they will bring a new toughness and physicality to the defense as well as improved technique such as tackling and pass-rushing moves. If we had brought back the exact same players with this staff I'd be optimistic for significant improvement. That fact we've replaced idiotic, undersized and/or unathletic players (Winborn, Webster, Engelberger, Manual, etc.) with hard-working, smarter, bigger guys (Dawkins, Davis, Hill, Fields, etc.) is another reason for optimism. If we can land on our draft picks to even bring in solid contributing guys, let alone hit in a Clady/Royal fashion, I think our defense could be amongst the most improved units in the league. :homer:

broncofan7
04-13-2009, 05:42 PM
I posted some of this on another thread but wanted to know to hear some insight on it......I know I'll take some heat for this as people love to be pessimistic bout our D but I honestly beleive the defense improvements on this team are far more than people realize.

1. Last season ending - last season the whole attitude was simply that the defense was dragging the team down and the wheels just fell off, granted they were dragging us down, a new season brings a new attitude every single time

2. The injuries on Defense - Start of the new season again, we'll start out in full force and I simply can't see us being hit with the injury bug nearly as bad as last year

3. Our youth getting better - Larsen, Woodyard, Barrett, Jack Williams, Powell, Moss, Crowder, Thomas - although learning a new system, they will still be physically better than last year, it's a simple matter of being in a pro off-season program.

4. Returning talent, we honestly do have some talent on that Defense, Champ Bailey, DJ Williams (both missed tons of last year) Thomas is under-rated.... any talent we had is definately back cept for maybe Bly but he had ran his course

5. New Additions granted every off-season people get a little too excited for how good thier new blood are actually gonna be - we did improve the talent level, Brian Dawkins and Reynaldo Hill automatically make the weakest part of our team a very respected and experienced one. Goodman, Feilds, Andra Davis will all contribute.

6. Experience - we simply didn't have it this year and having youth is always good but you need somewhat of a balance.

7. Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan. he has definately created some of the best defenses of the modern era, and more so he makes linebackers better everywhere he goes he turns good linebackers into studs (DJ Williams?)

8. A more balanced offense - Last year we were deadly, but we slung that thing up every play, this year with more running backs (and hopefully less injuries there) I beleive we will have a more balanced offense that can get a lead maintain a lean or come from behind, people may disagree because Mickey D likes to pass alot, but the difference from last year is we HAD TO PASS ALOT[B] liking to pass and having to pass are two completely different things.

9. Improved Specail teams - this always helps your offense and defense, and it's general rule of thumb that 3-4 teams have better specail teams because we have more linebacker builds to kick ass on ST. Plus we just simply can't be any worse than last year.

10. [B]Draft Picks.... you'd have to catasrophically F this draft up to not add alot of talent to this D

Didn't we just trade a 3rd year Franchise QB coming off of 4500 yards and 25 TD's--a trade the likes of which has never been seen in recent NFL memory--Can we **** this up??????--ABSO-F-U-C-K-I-N-G--LUTELY. TOP 15 D?

WTF?

1) we have NO NT!
2) we have no rush LB's! -can doom cover? NO. Can Moss rush? NO. hence we have no rush LB
3) We do not have a running game that can control the clock +
no pressure on the other team's QB= other teams having T.O.P advantages = more chances to score and pick up yards. If we are in the top 22 I'd be surprised.

SouthStndJunkie
04-13-2009, 05:44 PM
10 reasons you are high.

That said....I hope you are right.

frerottenextelway
04-13-2009, 05:46 PM
Personally I thought if we had a safety last year who was breathing we would have been so much better ... I seen our safeties take angles and miss read stuff last year that you just can't do and make a pay check for it ...

:thumbs:

We shouldn't have let Lynch go. An old slow m'fer is better than what we fielded.

SportinOne
04-13-2009, 05:48 PM
You have to define what you mean by "Top 15."

Yards allowed? Points allowed? And you also have to consider our schedule. I just don't see it.

In terms of yards, Pitt, Baltimore, Philly, Washington, Giants, Minnesota, Tennessee, Dallas, Tampa Bay, and New England were top 10 last year and there is no way we pass up any of them, yards OR points.

Then you have Indy, San Francisco, Miami, Jets, and San Diego (healthy Merriman). They didn't finish in this order last year but these are all teams who will have a better defense than the Broncos.

It's not going to happen. But 18 or 19 is, at least, possible. Still unlikely.

FireFly
04-13-2009, 05:50 PM
I think we'll take strides. But I also think that statistically it will appear to be minimal. Our schedule has us against some high octane offenses that will score points. Our D is going to have to take BIG strides this year just to keep us from getting obliterated.

I think we'll be better this year, even better next year, maybe even top 15 as you say. I just don't think that the teams we're coming up against will allow for such a statistical improvement.

Killericon
04-13-2009, 05:51 PM
_


<---------

TheChamp24
04-13-2009, 05:56 PM
We will make strides IMO, but top 15? What are you smoking because it must be some freakin good stuff!

SportinOne
04-13-2009, 06:16 PM
We will make strides IMO, but top 15? What are you smoking because it must be some freakin good stuff!

Not many people here are smoking better **** than I've got.. And not even I am high enough to crown us top 15 just because our new coach is "No Nonsense."

broncosteven
04-13-2009, 06:27 PM
:thumbs:

We shouldn't have let Lynch go. An old slow m'fer is better than what we fielded.

Lynch would have helped on 1st and 2nd down last year. Funny but 3rd down has been the killer the last 4 years.

Anyway Lynch started the precedent that Cutler followed. He felt slighted and wanted out of town when told he would only be used in a reduced role.

Cutler watched how a 9 time pro-bowler player acted to being slighted and did the same thing only he was called a crybaby while Lynch was considered classy even though he talked about being a leader on and off the field.

We still need to draft at least one S this year as Dawkins only has a couple years left in the tank, if we are lucky.

chickennob2
04-13-2009, 07:03 PM
1. Last season ending - last season the whole attitude was simply that the defense was dragging the team down and the wheels just fell off, granted they were dragging us down, a new season brings a new attitude every single time


Hmm, yes. And every team in the league is getting a new season, and thus a new attitude, no?


2. The injuries on Defense - Start of the new season again, we'll start out in full force and I simply can't see us being hit with the injury bug nearly as bad as last year


And getting healthy over the offseason applies only to the Broncos. No other teams had injuries last year, or else they will all suffer lots of injuries in training camp.


3. Our youth getting better - Larsen, Woodyard, Barrett, Jack Williams, Powell, Moss, Crowder, Thomas - although learning a new system, they will still be physically better than last year, it's a simple matter of being in a pro off-season program.


Again, only the Broncos have young players, and only those players in Denver will improve physically from a pro off-season program.


4. Returning talent, we honestly do have some talent on that Defense, Champ Bailey, DJ Williams (both missed tons of last year) Thomas is under-rated.... any talent we had is definately back cept for maybe Bly but he had ran his course


So your argument is that Denver didn't lose many talented players? You do of course realize that the same is true of most teams. And almost every team started with far more talent to return than we did. But of course, this will have a positive effect only for the broncos because, I mean, they're playing for the team and the patriot way, right?


5. New Additions granted every off-season people get a little too excited for how good thier new blood are actually gonna be - we did improve the talent level, Brian Dawkins and Reynaldo Hill automatically make the weakest part of our team a very respected and experienced one. Goodman, Feilds, Andra Davis will all contribute.


Little known fact: only the Broncos added players in the offseason.


6. Experience - we simply didn't have it this year and having youth is always good but you need somewhat of a balance.


Having more experience by being a year older, again this can benefit only the Broncos.


7. Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan. he has definately created some of the best defenses of the modern era, and more so he makes linebackers better everywhere he goes he turns good linebackers into studs (DJ Williams?)

8. A more balanced offense - Last year we were deadly, but we slung that thing up every play, this year with more running backs (and hopefully less injuries there) I beleive we will have a more balanced offense that can get a lead maintain a lean or come from behind, people may disagree because Mickey D likes to pass alot, but the difference from last year is we [B]HAD TO PASS ALOT[B] liking to pass and having to pass are two completely different things.

9. Improved Specail teams - this always helps your offense and defense, and it's general rule of thumb that 3-4 teams have better specail teams because we have more linebacker builds to kick ass on ST. Plus we just simply can't be any worse than last year.


Sure.


10. Draft Picks.... you'd have to catasrophically F this draft up to not add alot of talent to this D

Again, the Broncos alone have draft picks.




Basically, 7 of your reasons for why our ranking relative to other teams will improve drastically are things that will affect all teams. So this should provide no boost to our team's relative rankings.

Los Broncos
04-13-2009, 07:04 PM
A 3 and out in the 4th quarter is what I'm hoping for.

broncofan7
04-13-2009, 07:07 PM
A 3 and out in the 4th quarter is what I'm hoping for.

In the 4th quarter, the other teams will more than likely have their second teamers out there--and I don't have much faith is us stopping Kevin Kolb or even Tyler Thigpen ;)

Anaximines
04-13-2009, 07:09 PM
Yeah, I think we'll improve. Then again, I think you could string together an argument like this about every side of every team every offseason.

broncosteven
04-13-2009, 07:11 PM
If they could find one phase of the game to get good at and focus on that I would be happy.

I don't care where the D is ranked if they can't make a stop when they need to.

I say with the 3-4 focus on stopping the run. Punish ball carriers and force them to pass. Do not allow teams like Buffalo with their 3rd string back to run on the D late in the season at home and we may win some games.

BroncoBuff
04-13-2009, 07:12 PM
There's only one way to go .... UP.

2KBack
04-13-2009, 07:12 PM
The difference between the number 30th defense in points allowed (Denver) and the 15th is only about a touchdown. Allowing one fewer TD a game seems reasonable to me.

Los Broncos
04-13-2009, 07:12 PM
In the 4th quarter, the other teams will more than likely have their second teamers out there--and I don't have much faith is us stopping Kevin Kolb or even Tyler Thigpen ;)

That's true but after last season 3 and outs would be nice.

We should bet Baja on rather our first defensive series will be 3 and out our not.

broncosteven
04-13-2009, 07:17 PM
There's only one way to go .... UP.

Not really, KFC was worse than we were. so was one other team who I cannot remember right now.

We could get worse, especially because we have a new HC and DC and will be playing guys like Moss and Doom out of position.

I don't think we will but it could happen. My glass is always 1/2 empty.

OBF1
04-13-2009, 07:20 PM
my god....

You guys are out of your collective minds. Our defense had to get better to suck. We were so damn bad every team in the league looked forward to playing against us. We lost ZERO on the defensive side of the ball and added better players and a defensive coach that atleast has a clue on how to put together a game plan.

IF we draft well, this team has to be better than last season. Some teams will get hit by the injury bug, others will just not be as good as last year due to age of players, new coaching schemes and loss of key players. Top 15 maybe not, but vastly improved for sure.

go_broncos
04-13-2009, 07:21 PM
We will have top 15 defense because Mike Shanahan is no longer our coach.

Rock Chalk
04-13-2009, 07:29 PM
Well it will help that Cutler isnt throwing interceptions all over the field this year :)

BroncsRule
04-13-2009, 07:38 PM
7. Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan. Mike Nolan. he has definately created some of the best defenses of the modern era, and more so he makes linebackers better everywhere he goes he turns good linebackers into studs (DJ Williams?)

Really? I totally don't get the Nolan love.

Mike Nolan's career ranking as a DC (when not coaching a Defense anchored by Ray Lewis):

16th in yards allowed

15th in pts allowed

If you include his years in SF (where he was ultimately responsible for Defensive performance as HC), his career ranking drops to 19th (in yards allowed).

Also, he didn't build that Ravens D that won the super bowl (Marvin Lewis did) - Nolan took it over in '02 and presided over it's demise.

Granted - he has taken over some crappy D's (Giants, Redskins, Jets), and brought them up from total suckage to middle of the road - but he has never, ever built a Defense that would be considered "some of the best defenses of the modern era".

broncofan7
04-13-2009, 07:45 PM
Well it will help that Cutler isnt throwing interceptions all over the field this year :)

You're an idiot.

TDmvp
04-13-2009, 07:47 PM
Well it will help that Cutler isnt throwing interceptions all over the field this year :)



Career Stats


Orton

Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int
505 913 55.3 5,319 5.8 30 27


Cutler

Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int
762 1,220 62.5 9,024 7.4 54 37


I had no idea Orton threw that many picks... Jeez ...
and Cutler threw almost as many TDs in one season (25) then Orton has thrown in 3 or 4 year career (30)... but different teams with different schemes ... hehe ...


We need to run a lot and not make him have to win games for us that is for sure ... try to shorten the games and not get in shoot outs.
Long as we win I can live with it being ugly tho.
But it is going to be hard .

bronco610
04-13-2009, 07:53 PM
Top 10 defense !!!!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.:~ohyah!:

broncosteven
04-13-2009, 07:59 PM
Career Stats


Orton

Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int
505 913 55.3 5,319 5.8 30 27


Cutler

Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int
762 1,220 62.5 9,024 7.4 54 37


I had no idea Orton threw that many picks... Jeez ...
and Cutler threw almost as many TDs in one season (25) then Orton has thrown in 3 or 4 year career (30)... but different teams with different schemes ... hehe ...


We need to run a lot and not make him have to win games for us that is for sure ... try to shorten the games and not get in shoot outs.
Long as we win I can live with it being ugly tho.
But it is going to be hard .

Perception is different than Reality.

orange skier
04-13-2009, 08:40 PM
My thoughts in December of last year.....we were a strong safety and a middle linebacker away from a much better defense.......now we have a new coach, and some pretty significant upgrades, and we have some serious draft picks to bolster this thing.......I'd be very surprised if we weren't top 20.......and I think we have a legitimate shot at top 15.......it's too bad we lost our QB......I'm getting excited for the draft..........

TheChamp24
04-13-2009, 09:44 PM
My thoughts in December of last year.....we were a strong safety and a middle linebacker away from a much better defense.......now we have a new coach, and some pretty significant upgrades, and we have some serious draft picks to bolster this thing.......I'd be very surprised if we weren't top 20.......and I think we have a legitimate shot at top 15.......it's too bad we lost our QB......I'm getting excited for the draft..........

A safety and a MLB would not have made last years sorry defense that much better.
Tell me, who the heck starts on the DL. All I can say is Marcus Thomas, and even he hasn't shown a whole lot.
Top 15 is no way in hell we overturn that fast. I want to be optimistic like that, but the realist knows how crappy the defense is and supposed "star" players like DJ Williams are in fact average players.

baja
04-13-2009, 09:54 PM
Really? I totally don't get the Nolan love.

Mike Nolan's career ranking as a DC (when not coaching a Defense anchored by Ray Lewis):

16th in yards allowed

15th in pts allowed

If you include his years in SF (where he was ultimately responsible for Defensive performance as HC), his career ranking drops to 19th (in yards allowed).

Also, he didn't build that Ravens D that won the super bowl (Marvin Lewis did) - Nolan took it over in '02 and presided over it's demise.

Granted - he has taken over some crappy D's (Giants, Redskins, Jets), and brought them up from total suckage to middle of the road - but he has never, ever built a Defense that would be considered "some of the best defenses of the modern era".

How dare you say this stuff? Even if it is true.

DBroncos4life
04-13-2009, 10:00 PM
Losing Cutler alone should bump the D to the top 15.

Broncos4tw
04-13-2009, 10:33 PM
I think we'll definitely improve (how could you not), but we'll see by how much. If we continue our inability to produce a pass rush, we're still going to be one-dimensional, and get kicked around the field. We don't scare anyone at the moment.

Top 15? I think that's a bit of a stretch. Even if we manage an excellent draft, these are rookies folks, not vets. It's going to take a couple years to get this defense going. Imo, best case is #20 or so. Maybe 18, if very lucky.

slyinky
04-13-2009, 10:35 PM
In 2006 the Broncos defense ranked 14th.

.....2006..................D-line................2009...........
Ebenezer Ekuban..........................Marcus Thomas
Kenard Lang................................Ron Fields
Gerard Warren.............................Kenny Peterson
Michael Myers

.............................LB's................. ...................
Ian Gold......................................Andra Davis
D.J. Williams................................Boss Bailey
Al Wilson.....................................Elvis Dumervil
.................................................D J Williams

.............................DB's................. ...................
Darrent Williams.............................Andre Goodman
Champ Bailey................................Champ Bailey
John Lynch...................................Reynaldo Hill
Nick Ferguson................................Brian Dawkins

If the draft produces a couple solid defensive starters, I could see it as a possibility.

fdf
04-13-2009, 10:38 PM
Granted - he has taken over some crappy D's (Giants, Redskins, Jets), and brought them up from total suckage to middle of the road - but he has never, ever built a Defense that would be considered "some of the best defenses of the modern era".

That would be a welcome change.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 11:09 PM
In 2006 the Broncos defense ranked 14th.

.....2006..................D-line................2009...........
Ebenezer Ekuban..........................Marcus Thomas
Kenard Lang................................Ron Fields
Gerard Warren.............................Kenny Peterson
Michael Myers

.............................LB's................. ...................
Ian Gold......................................Andra Davis
D.J. Williams................................Boss Bailey
Al Wilson.....................................Elvis Dumervil
.................................................D J Williams

.............................DB's................. ...................
Darrent Williams.............................Andre Goodman
Champ Bailey................................Champ Bailey
John Lynch...................................Reynaldo Hill
Nick Ferguson................................Brian Dawkins

If the draft produces a couple solid defensive starters, I could see it as a possibility.
I don't see it.

Look at who we have here: Fields at NT? He's a backup with 9 starts in 4 years, and that position is where the 3-4 starts. Kenny Petersen's another backup and he couldn't even start here last year. Neither of these guys is starter quality and I don't think Petersen's a DE anyway, even in the 3-4. I'm not sure if Marcus Thomas is either, though I guess he's the best we got...I think he's a better inside player though. At LB Boss is back...for how long who knows...is that good or bad news? Davis at OLB is an upgrade and I want to see what Elvis has there...he's a mystery right now though. I remember asking people in here if they thought he should gt a shot at LB and everyone laughed...not so funny now huh? Then there is DJ...will he play up to his potential in this D? Who knows? Frankly I'd rather see Woodyard in there even though he's smaller. In the secondary only Champ's established as a top shelf guy...let's hope he stays healthy...Dawkins should be fine but he's probaly slowed somewhat...he's this year's version of Lynch I guess. The other two are OK...Hill's an upgrade but how could he not be? I'm actually hoping the Barrett kid beats him out though...we need to get the younger guys in there.

Factor in a couple rookies from the draft and maybe we get better that way, but moving up more than maybe 24 or so doesn't seem that reasonable. Our D-line's still the biggest issue and if we open with the guys slotted in there now it's still lacking in talent. We need to get 4-5 starters out of this draft on defense who get in there by next year.

Ambiguous
04-14-2009, 12:47 AM
There's only one way to go .... UP.

I've been banking on this for way too long... remember 2007? How many people here saw us getting worse this year?

At least we now have a proven guy running the D, but still it will be an epic turnaround if we hit 16 while moving to a 3-4. Really that's all I want to see from this season.

epicSocialism4tw
04-14-2009, 12:56 AM
Reasons someone could be deluded into thinking that our defense is in the top half:

5) Super homerism
4) Said person has never seen a football game before in their life
3) Sudden stroke places said person mentally in 1977
2) A constant blind bowing to McD has created some sort of vertigo
1) You ate acid before the game

baja
04-14-2009, 07:09 AM
We will have a defense ranked in the top half of the league, bank it.

iforgotmypassword
10-04-2009, 09:04 PM
bump

Doggcow
10-04-2009, 09:06 PM
I thought we'd be a top 10 too. Didn't expect us to be this awesome though. Good thread.

hookemhess
10-04-2009, 09:07 PM
Top 10 defense !!!!



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.:~ohyah!:

Fail.

Rock Chalk
10-04-2009, 09:22 PM
Improved sure...top 15...dunno about that

How about #1! :)

Rock Chalk
10-04-2009, 09:22 PM
Reasons someone could be deluded into thinking that our defense is in the top half:

5) Super homerism
4) Said person has never seen a football game before in their life
3) Sudden stroke places said person mentally in 1977
2) A constant blind bowing to McD has created some sort of vertigo
1) You ate acid before the game

Good call skillet head :)