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View Full Version : What if we trade #12 for a 1st Rounder in 2010?


footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 10:16 AM
By nearly all accounts I've read, this is a very weak draft, which to my way of thinking this means the assets we have are worth less, especially near the top of the draft. Some say the value at the top 10 picks is very poor and the talent level at 18-32 is basically the same. I don't like trading up...and I'm not sure how much we'd profit by trading down since other teams know they're not getting great value when the move higher.

Here's a thought...

Why not trade one of our 1st round picks to a team likely to suck this year for their 1st rounder in 2010? It would probably need to be the #12 pick, but so what? It sounds like the 18th is just as good or nearly so. This happens pretty often...a team is either enamored with a certain guy they can't get otherwise because they don't have extra picks this year or else they're simply taking a "cross that bridge when we come to it" approach to losing a 1st rounder next year. Since this is a weak draft and next year is stronger, why keep the extra pick if we can move it? Even if we guessed wrong and somebody has a better than expected year, this year's #12 might be no better than next year's 25th. In fact Mayock and others are saying that's true of this year anyway...so in a stronger draft next year the 25th pick might actually be BETTER than this year's #12 pick...and certainly cheaper to pay.

Going into a stronger 2010 draft with 3 #1 picks would be sweet, especially since we'll have a much better idea what our QB situation looks like by then. The FO would also have been through one draft so they'd have had some time to make any adjustments necessary. Assume for the sake of argument that we trade the #12 pick to the Bills and they finish next season with the 15th pick in the draft. Let's say we finish 7-9 this year and have the 10th pick in 2010 plus Chicago's pick...probably in the 23-30 range....I'll say 26. That would give us picks at 10, 15 and 26 which would easily give us the ammo to move up high enough for almost any player in the draft we want, including a franchise QB (if Orton proves he's not the guy). If Orton proves he's the answer then we have 3 #1 picks in a stronger draft to build the defense with. We could even conceivably wind up with multiple picks in the top 4 rounds with this approach.

Discuss...

Denver724
04-13-2009, 10:24 AM
I would trade #18 for a 1st in 2010 and a high 2nd rounder. I am hoping Freeman falls and this becomes reality. The going rate is a 1st the following year and a 2nd. I will never forget the draft when Quinn was taken. The Browns traded back into the 1st round for a 1st the following year and their 2nd. By the way this was one pick after the Broncos that was traded away for the stud Jarvis Moss (we traded up with the Jags). The Panthers traded back into the 1st round last year. I think they did they same deal.

Popps
04-13-2009, 10:29 AM
I'd be more for trading down this year and maybe picking up a first day pick next year for doing it. I think the top 10 of the draft will be expensive, this year... but after that, I believe we'll see some good bargains.

The sooner we can start developing some of this young talent, the better. Plus, we have two 1st rounders next year, already.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 10:29 AM
I would trade #18 for a 1st in 2010 and a high 2nd rounder. I am hoping Freeman falls and this becomes reality. The going rate is a 1st the following year and a 2nd. I will never forget the draft when Quinn was taken. The Browns traded back into the 1st round for a 1st the following year and their 2nd. By the way this was one pick after the Broncos that was traded away for the stud Jarvis Moss (we traded up with the Jags). The Panthers traded back into the 1st round last year. I think they did they same deal.
That would be even better but I doubt we could get them to take the 18th instead of the 12th and since this draft is weaker I left off the additional pick...but that would utterly rock if we could do it.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 10:30 AM
I'd be more for trading down this year and maybe picking up a first day pick next year for doing it. I think the top 10 of the draft will be expensive, this year... but after that, I believe we'll see some good bargains.

The sooner we can start developing some of this young talent, the better. Plus, we have two 1st rounders next year, already.
Why builld up more assets in a weaker draft?

barryr
04-13-2009, 10:32 AM
The only way I see the Broncos able to trade the #12 pick for a 1st rounder next year, among other things probably, is a team picking in the 20's who wants a QB, assuming Sanchez is still there. And even that is iffy.

But there has to be player a team really wants badly to make such a move and if there is such a player, one would think the Broncos would be taking that guy themselves at 12.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-13-2009, 10:33 AM
That would be even better but I doubt we could get them to take the 18th instead of the 12th and since this draft is weaker I left off the additional pick...but that would utterly rock if we could do it.

It would be utterly retarded to swap first picks for one next year, unless you are also getting a pick (2nd rounder) in return this year. And enough with the "weak draft" ****. This is not the NBA. There are great players ALL throughout a football draft.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 10:38 AM
It would be utterly retarded to swap first picks for one next year, unless you are also getting a pick (2nd rounder) in return this year. And enough with the "weak draft" ****. This is not the NBA. There are great players ALL throughout a football draft.
It's only retarded if you believe you'll get the same or better player this year that you would next year. And no...there are definitely weak drafts in the NFL too. I'm asking why keep a 1st rounder in a weak draft if you can get a better player and possibly for cheaper in the next one? Besides...we may need to get a QB next year and while 2 #1's might not do it...3 almost surely would.

In any case...if someone wants to give us a another pick this year so much the better.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 10:41 AM
The only way I see the Broncos able to trade the #12 pick for a 1st rounder next year, among other things probably, is a team picking in the 20's who wants a QB, assuming Sanchez is still there. And even that is iffy.
Why is that iffy? We made a deal like that with the Skins.
But there has to be player a team really wants badly to make such a move and if there is such a player, one would think the Broncos would be taking that guy themselves at 12.
How so? Every team has different needs and different rankings. Who would have thought Cleveland trades to get Quinn?

I'm asking if you like the idea, not if you think it's possible.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-13-2009, 10:47 AM
It would be utterly retarded to swap first picks for one next year, unless you are also getting a pick (2nd rounder) in return this year. And enough with the "weak draft" ****. This is not the NBA. There are great players ALL throughout a football draft.

There are guys who BECOME great players all throughout the draft. If they were great players coming out of college, they wouldn't be 6th and 7th round picks. Just because teams get lucky on a guy late, which occur in every draft, does not mean this draft isn't weak at the top.

Pony Boy
04-13-2009, 10:47 AM
We might need some stimulus help from Obama to negotiate three 1<SUP>st</SUP> round draft picks in the same year?

Requiem
04-13-2009, 10:48 AM
I don't think Denver is in a position at all to be sacrificing the ability to get better through the draft this year. Yes, I too believe this draft is pretty "average" at some positions, but there are quality players who are immediate upgrades over many current players on our roster all over the draft board. At least din my opinion. I like where we're at as far as the draft goes; even with talent pool concerns.

gyldenlove
04-13-2009, 10:50 AM
I would be open to trading 18 for either a 3rd this year and a 1st and 4th next year or a player and a 1st next year.

Gcver2ver3
04-13-2009, 11:02 AM
a first rounder this year carries more value than a 1st rounder next year...

besides, McD says he's trying to win now...unlike most of you, i believe him...

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 11:04 AM
a first rounder this year carries more value than a 1st rounder next year...
Only for this year.

BABronco
04-13-2009, 11:24 AM
I'd love to do that. Who knows, we may luck out and the team we trade with can completely suck that year and we could have a bidding war on one of the top qbs in the draft.

This draft is pretty pathetic and next year looks pretty promising. Do it!

Rohirrim
04-13-2009, 11:33 AM
This draft is weak in QBs, RBs, WRs, DTs and DEs, but pretty solid in LBs and DBs. McD has announced he'll be going after the BPA at each pick. I assume that means they won't reach just based on need. That's the right way to go about this draft. Get a couple of good LBs, a good safety and CB. Just pick the good stuff. Leave the bad.

SouthStndJunkie
04-13-2009, 11:47 AM
We already have 2 first round picks in 2010....we don't need 3.

I say keep both of them this year.

I could see trading down with one of our first rounders and maybe picking up a 2nd or 3rd round pick in 2010.

TheDave
04-13-2009, 11:48 AM
After reading this and just about every other draft related article I can find... I disagree about the talent in this years draft. Sure if we had a top 5 pick this would not be a good year for that, but with 12 & 18 there is plenty of talent that can help us out.

Four NFL Team Employees Rate for us the Top Twenty Prospects for the 2009 Draft (http://spartannation.com/?p=6083)

<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Jason Smith OT Baylor Scouts Take: “Smith has all of the tools and the most upside of any of the prospects. He is strong, smart and is void of any off-field issues that could hinder a team with such a high pick.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest Scouts Take: “Curry is a football player. He can play any of the LB spots in a 3-4 or a 4-3. He has character and a love for the game. We only rank Smith higher based on OT as a bigger position than a LB.”<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Eugene Monroe OT Virginia Scouts Take: “Monroe is a football player. We love everything about him. In fairness to the young man the only thing that separates him from Smith is that Smith has a little better upside, but still a safe and great pick.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Brian Orakpo DE Texas Scouts Take: “Orakpo is a great athlete who is very fast. Will he take to the coaching of the NFL that he didn’t get at Texas or will he be like a Shaun Rogers and even Roy Williams who have all the talent, but aren’t the most coachable? We think his motor is great and in interviews comes off as very teachable and hungry.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Andre Smith OT Alabama Scouts Take: “This young man is the most talented player in the draft. Without the off field issues that plague him he would CLEARLY be the best player in the draft. Again, without the off-field issues he would be clearly better than Thomas (Joe of the Browns) and Long (Jake) of the Dolphins. He has so many questions, but he has so much talent that you can’t logically rate him any lower than fifth.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State Scouts Take: “This youngster is nothing short of a stud. We haven’t looked at a TE this high in sometime. He has all of the tools to be one of the greatest with an upside that matches Smith at OT. We have even looked at ways to move up. He is a star who loves the game and practice. We looked hard at his off-field demeanor and are convinced he is a great kid.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech Scouts Take: “He has all the tools. Reminds us a lot of Calvin Johnson. Some questions about size, but the tapes don’t lie and there isn’t another receiver in this class that is in his.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Aaron Maybin DE PSU Scouts Take: “The only negative on this kid is his size. He loves the game of football and all aspects including working out and practice. His speed is what separates him. He will flourish in an NFL strength and conditioning system.”<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Robert Ayers DE Tennessee Scouts take: “This is a kid whose out of season workouts and play impressed us and moved him up the board. He hasn’t played a lot of football, and he is raw. He can play the game of football and totally took responsibility for some off-field and maturity issues early in his career. His interviews and checking him out really helped as he has a proven track record of setting himself right.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia Scout Take: “Superb vision and balance and an ability to make good plays. Unlike his QB Stafford, he played better against better competition and will add bulk. He doesn’t have the injury fears of Wells and is the best all around and NFL ready RB in the draft.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Everett Brown DE Florida State Scouts Take: “Super character, super athlete and speed. Hasn’t played a lot of football at DE, but is explosive and can flat out rush the QB. Not as advanced as Ayers, but three years in they will be mirror images of each other.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri Scouts Take: “Not as talented as Crabtree, but he is an incredible athlete and has talent. Where as Crabtree will go anywhere to catch a football, he can hear the footsteps over the middle. That one attribute separates him from being good and great like Crabtree.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Tyson Jackson DE LSUScouts Take: “He is the best rush defender of any of them, but struggles with the rush. He is brutal at the point of attack and strong, so he can grow into more. His rush skills alone warrant him this high, but he is somewhat of a project.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">BJ Raji DT Boston College Scouts Take: “He has a lot of mass and at times can be an immovable object. The problem is that he will be going against guys most of the time on the OL that have those same skills and are more mobile. I will look forward to seeing your list because I doubt others have him as low as we do, but for all the talent there are some issues.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio StateScouts Take: “Jenkins is a rare talent that can play CB or S. Probably better suited for a CB in a Tampa Two type scheme, but still the best skills of any of the DB’s and with a versatility that can play dual spots he is invaluable. Because of his size, he can match up with the Calvin Johnsons and the bigger body receivers in short areas.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Michael Oher OT Mississippi Scouts Take: “Another OT with great skills. Some concern off of the field until you really look at him and do your research. He has all the talents and skills and is a well developed young man. The only issue is the depth of his desire to play and get better. He is simply way too talented to go too far down the draft and we would gladly snap him up anywhere post 15.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Brian Cushing LB USC Scouts Take: “Great instincts, motor, and plays heads up. Great at the point of attack and is able to shed blockers well. He is almost too much of a muscle builder and it affects his movements. Some concern off-field, but will be a good pro football player.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Rey Maualuga LB USC Scouts Take: “Dominant player when he wants to be. He can also take off plays and that hurts him in being rated any higher. He has such a high motor that at times gets overzealous and will miss plays by over pursuing. Great raw talent and is a good locker room guy. Off-field concerns for us however.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Peria Jerry DT Mississippi Scouts Take: “Can puncture the line, create turmoil and move in all directions well. He is married with kids and has his head on straight. Not a physical specimen so will have to adapt to that part of the NFL. If he were a committed gym rat with the physique of some others he would be a top five guy. He isn’t, but seems to be willing to do so. In the NFL he won’t be able to automatically overpower and out-speed guys so that is the only issues with his game.”
Percy Harvin WR Florida Scouts Take: “He is a rare athlete who can catch, do kickoffs and punt returns. He has speed that simply can’t be overlooked and has good hands. He is a risk and we have some concerns away from the field. With that said this is the NFL and we have a tendency to overlook some issues with that much talent. Some at least, just maybe not us.” http://spartannation.com/?p=6083

epicSocialism4tw
04-13-2009, 12:08 PM
I like the idea, Footsteps, because it would give us a shot at Cherokee Sam, who is an outstanding kid with outstanding talent, outstanding brains and seems tailor made for the Patroit offense.

Paladin
04-13-2009, 12:13 PM
No. I want instant gratification, this instant!!!

We play to win the game.

Popps
04-13-2009, 12:14 PM
Good list, Dave.... and I totally agree. I love the 12-18 range for bargain-hunting.

SOMEONE will fall to both of our picks, whether it's a guy like Brown, Jackson, Maulaluga, Raji, etc.

I absolutely love where we're sitting in the first round.

epicSocialism4tw
04-13-2009, 12:15 PM
After reading this and just about every other draft related article I can find... I disagree about the talent in this years draft. Sure if we had a top 5 pick this would not be a good year for that, but with 12 & 18 there is plenty of talent that can help us out.

Four NFL Team Employees Rate for us the Top Twenty Prospects for the 2009 Draft (http://spartannation.com/?p=6083)

<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Jason Smith OT Baylor Scouts Take: “Smith has all of the tools and the most upside of any of the prospects. He is strong, smart and is void of any off-field issues that could hinder a team with such a high pick.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest Scouts Take: “Curry is a football player. He can play any of the LB spots in a 3-4 or a 4-3. He has character and a love for the game. We only rank Smith higher based on OT as a bigger position than a LB.”<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Eugene Monroe OT Virginia Scouts Take: “Monroe is a football player. We love everything about him. In fairness to the young man the only thing that separates him from Smith is that Smith has a little better upside, but still a safe and great pick.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Brian Orakpo DE Texas Scouts Take: “Orakpo is a great athlete who is very fast. Will he take to the coaching of the NFL that he didn’t get at Texas or will he be like a Shaun Rogers and even Roy Williams who have all the talent, but aren’t the most coachable? We think his motor is great and in interviews comes off as very teachable and hungry.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Andre Smith OT Alabama Scouts Take: “This young man is the most talented player in the draft. Without the off field issues that plague him he would CLEARLY be the best player in the draft. Again, without the off-field issues he would be clearly better than Thomas (Joe of the Browns) and Long (Jake) of the Dolphins. He has so many questions, but he has so much talent that you can’t logically rate him any lower than fifth.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State Scouts Take: “This youngster is nothing short of a stud. We haven’t looked at a TE this high in sometime. He has all of the tools to be one of the greatest with an upside that matches Smith at OT. We have even looked at ways to move up. He is a star who loves the game and practice. We looked hard at his off-field demeanor and are convinced he is a great kid.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech Scouts Take: “He has all the tools. Reminds us a lot of Calvin Johnson. Some questions about size, but the tapes don’t lie and there isn’t another receiver in this class that is in his.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Aaron Maybin DE PSU Scouts Take: “The only negative on this kid is his size. He loves the game of football and all aspects including working out and practice. His speed is what separates him. He will flourish in an NFL strength and conditioning system.”<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Robert Ayers DE Tennessee Scouts take: “This is a kid whose out of season workouts and play impressed us and moved him up the board. He hasn’t played a lot of football, and he is raw. He can play the game of football and totally took responsibility for some off-field and maturity issues early in his career. His interviews and checking him out really helped as he has a proven track record of setting himself right.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia Scout Take: “Superb vision and balance and an ability to make good plays. Unlike his QB Stafford, he played better against better competition and will add bulk. He doesn’t have the injury fears of Wells and is the best all around and NFL ready RB in the draft.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Everett Brown DE Florida State Scouts Take: “Super character, super athlete and speed. Hasn’t played a lot of football at DE, but is explosive and can flat out rush the QB. Not as advanced as Ayers, but three years in they will be mirror images of each other.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri Scouts Take: “Not as talented as Crabtree, but he is an incredible athlete and has talent. Where as Crabtree will go anywhere to catch a football, he can hear the footsteps over the middle. That one attribute separates him from being good and great like Crabtree.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Tyson Jackson DE LSUScouts Take: “He is the best rush defender of any of them, but struggles with the rush. He is brutal at the point of attack and strong, so he can grow into more. His rush skills alone warrant him this high, but he is somewhat of a project.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">BJ Raji DT Boston College Scouts Take: “He has a lot of mass and at times can be an immovable object. The problem is that he will be going against guys most of the time on the OL that have those same skills and are more mobile. I will look forward to seeing your list because I doubt others have him as low as we do, but for all the talent there are some issues.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio StateScouts Take: “Jenkins is a rare talent that can play CB or S. Probably better suited for a CB in a Tampa Two type scheme, but still the best skills of any of the DB’s and with a versatility that can play dual spots he is invaluable. Because of his size, he can match up with the Calvin Johnsons and the bigger body receivers in short areas.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Michael Oher OT Mississippi Scouts Take: “Another OT with great skills. Some concern off of the field until you really look at him and do your research. He has all the talents and skills and is a well developed young man. The only issue is the depth of his desire to play and get better. He is simply way too talented to go too far down the draft and we would gladly snap him up anywhere post 15.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Brian Cushing LB USC Scouts Take: “Great instincts, motor, and plays heads up. Great at the point of attack and is able to shed blockers well. He is almost too much of a muscle builder and it affects his movements. Some concern off-field, but will be a good pro football player.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Rey Maualuga LB USC Scouts Take: “Dominant player when he wants to be. He can also take off plays and that hurts him in being rated any higher. He has such a high motor that at times gets overzealous and will miss plays by over pursuing. Great raw talent and is a good locker room guy. Off-field concerns for us however.” <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">Peria Jerry DT Mississippi Scouts Take: “Can puncture the line, create turmoil and move in all directions well. He is married with kids and has his head on straight. Not a physical specimen so will have to adapt to that part of the NFL. If he were a committed gym rat with the physique of some others he would be a top five guy. He isn’t, but seems to be willing to do so. In the NFL he won’t be able to automatically overpower and out-speed guys so that is the only issues with his game.”
Percy Harvin WR Florida Scouts Take: “He is a rare athlete who can catch, do kickoffs and punt returns. He has speed that simply can’t be overlooked and has good hands. He is a risk and we have some concerns away from the field. With that said this is the NFL and we have a tendency to overlook some issues with that much talent. Some at least, just maybe not us.” http://spartannation.com/?p=6083

Wow...

No Stafford, no Sanchez.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-13-2009, 12:17 PM
There are guys who BECOME great players all throughout the draft. If they were great players coming out of college, they wouldn't be 6th and 7th round picks. Just because teams get lucky on a guy late, which occur in every draft, does not mean this draft isn't weak at the top.

That's the whole point. It's funny that we all know draft experts should be taken with a grain of salt because this **** is hard to predict, yet you're all buying into the "weak draft." It might seem like a weak draft now, but maybe it'll be quite strong.

And its silly to just swap first round picks for one next year. You have no clue how good that team will be. Remember when we got Washington's pick a few years back, we all thought it would be top 5. Then suddenly Washington got good again.

OBF1
04-13-2009, 12:19 PM
Trading our #12 this year for the possibility of getting a higher pick next year is crazy. You never know what tram will go Dolphins on you are go from 1-15 to 10-6.

There are plenty of good players in the 1st round to go after this year.

NFLBRONCO
04-13-2009, 12:35 PM
Trading our #12 this year for the possibility of getting a higher pick next year is crazy. You never know what tram will go Dolphins on you are go from 1-15 to 10-6.

There are plenty of good players in the 1st round to go after this year.

Remember everyone here was saying top 5 pick from Wash and it ended up being 22. Yeah our luck isn't so good.

I just hope we don't trade #1 for Quinn

DBBBSBS
04-13-2009, 01:04 PM
another retarded thread from the dumb old guy...

SonOfLe-loLang
04-13-2009, 01:27 PM
Remember everyone here was saying top 5 pick from Wash and it ended up being 22. Yeah our luck isn't so good.

I just hope we don't trade #1 for Quinn

Why in god's name would we trade a number one for Quinn?

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 02:21 PM
another retarded thread from the dumb old guy...
Is this your best smack? Only a douche like you beats the same drum accross multiple threads. Your McOpies boyfriend and I hurt your feelings...I get it...move on already.

Cripes.

TheChamp24
04-13-2009, 02:26 PM
First, you have to have someone willing to do this, and IMO, NO player will be worth the gamble to a team. Although I am probably wrong as teams like to reach for guys.
Second, this is under the assumption we'll get a better player the next year. This is purely assumption and not fact. Heck, next year's class could be weak as hell, we don't know what it will be like next year. Pinning hopes on next year's draft, I don't like that. We have needs we need to address now, and while these guys might not be "stars", they can certainly help this team and could become stars.

gyldenlove
04-13-2009, 02:45 PM
First, you have to have someone willing to do this, and IMO, NO player will be worth the gamble to a team. Although I am probably wrong as teams like to reach for guys.
Second, this is under the assumption we'll get a better player the next year. This is purely assumption and not fact. Heck, next year's class could be weak as hell, we don't know what it will be like next year. Pinning hopes on next year's draft, I don't like that. We have needs we need to address now, and while these guys might not be "stars", they can certainly help this team and could become stars.

Almost every year a team trades next years 1st to get a player.

2005 (Washington to Denver)
2006 (none)
2007 (San Fransisco to New England) (Indianapolis to San Fransisco)
2008 (Carolina to Philadelphia)

The Carolina, Philly trade last year looked like this:

Carolina gets number 19

Philly gets 2nd round (43), 4th round (109) and Carolinas 1st round 2010.

Not a bad deal.

Beantown Bronco
04-13-2009, 02:54 PM
The Carolina, Philly trade last year looked like this:

Carolina gets number 19

Philly gets 2nd round (43), 4th round (109) and Carolinas 1st round 2010.

Not a bad deal.

That's the only way Denver should ever even consider such a deal. It should never be a simple "first rounder this year for first rounder next year" type trade. Denver should and would be getting back one or two mid level picks this year + next year's first from whoever they deal with. Anything less simply wouldn't make sense.

Cito Pelon
04-13-2009, 04:10 PM
That's the only way Denver should ever even consider such a deal. It should never be a simple "first rounder this year for first rounder next year" type trade. Denver should and would be getting back one or two mid level picks this year + next year's first from whoever they deal with. Anything less simply wouldn't make sense.

Absolutely. For the 12 a team would have to offer up a lot more than just a 2010 1. It would have to be pretty sweet, because the 12 is an excellent position to be in.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 04:15 PM
Absolutely. For the 12 a team would have to offer up a lot more than just a 2010 1. It would have to be pretty sweet, because the 12 is an excellent position to be in.
My point is not really what else we could get in return, but whether we'd like to be sitting in the 2010 draft with 3 1st rounders and possibly needing a QB. Obviously you get whatever you can get...it just seems smarter to have high picks in a year when the draft is considered better AND there are highly ranked QB's coming out. It's not like we don't have an extra #1 this year anyway.

It's a risk...but even if we dropped down some in the pecking order it seems like the talent level being what it's projected to be it wouldn't make much difference.

DBBBSBS
04-13-2009, 04:32 PM
Is this your best smack? Only a douche like you beats the same drum accross multiple threads. Your McOpies boyfriend and I hurt your feelings...I get it...move on already.

Cripes.

Only a fool like you can start and post so many stupid posts and reach 10k posts.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 04:42 PM
Only a fool like you can start and post so many stupid posts and reach 10k posts.
How would you know what I've posted newbie? You just got here a few days ago and you're already anxiously proving you're a mental midget.

Maybe it's just to much DIVERSITY for ya eh? :wave:

DBBBSBS
04-13-2009, 04:47 PM
How would you know what I've posted newbie? You just got here a few days ago and you're already anxiously proving you're a mental midget.

Maybe it's just to much DIVERSITY for ya eh? :wave:

Have you heard of sampling theory ? Your quality posts from the past can be seen from the few you have been posting lately or may be you are like shanny, had some good years and you are thinking you are way too good. But in reality you have become a mental midget and you are thinking others are so.. Hilarious!

Drek
04-13-2009, 04:56 PM
I don't really get this whole "its a weak draft, horrible time to have a ton of picks!" meme that is starting to saturate this board.

Its weak at the top, only Aaron Curry, Jason Smith, and Eugene Monroe are legit top 5 prospects. I'd only add Crabtree and Andre Smith to that list when talking about top 10 prospects.

But the value from the early teens of the first round back to about the mid-3rd is very good, especially for 3-4 OLB types, interior linemen, and WR. The ILB class is a little shallower than everyone thought heading in, but its still better than any season in the last few years considering total depth of the talent pool. The OT class is very nice through the first round, arguably better than last year's rich class. The RB pool goes about 4 rounds deep. Safety lacks the top end stud (unless you count Malcolm Jenkins, who will probably play FS in the NFL) but its fat with good talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

It really sucks at corner and DT is, like almost every year, very shallow. It doesn't have the massive waves of depth that last year's class had, but last year's class was something of an aberation in its own right. There aren't many prototypical 4-3 DEs of any real value (which is why Ayers is climbing so fast), but those are rare as hell too.

The place to be in this draft is about 15-100. That is where you can hit good value. Our first pick is just a hair earlier, not a huge penalty as you're just talking a few million over the life of the deal. Our second 1st is right in the start of the sweet spot. We've now got a 2nd and two 3rds that stay within the heart of that range.

Ideal world we'll be able to flip #12 to move into the late teens/early 20's and recoup a late 2nd/early 3rd in the process, then flip #18 for a '10 first and a 2nd this year. Not because there aren't two good value picks to be made at each spot, but instead because if we do that we still have a 1st in the early part of the fat part of this draft and pick up two additional picks in the middle of the sweet spot while also securing more '10 value.

That way in 2010 we can again trade a 1st for future picks and continue to stockpile back through the draft. The Cutler trade can pay dividends if McDaniels just makes smart picks, but it'll pay its highest return if we use this new found wealth of picks to wheel and deal, positioning ourselves for the prospects we want while parlaying value inequalities into future value. That way we're draft rich not just in '09 and '10, but also in '11, '12, and for just as long as we can find teams willing to let us extort multiple picks from them, which if the draft's history is any example, there's a team willing to rob Peter to pay Paul every single year, if not multiple teams, so it could go on for quite some time.

cutthemdown
04-13-2009, 05:05 PM
We would get an extra 3rd or 2nd round pick to trade a pick this yr for a pick next yr. Picks a yr away are valued slightly less.

We would need to get something, like a 3rd rounder this yr, or a 3rd and a 4th next yr IMO.

I like the idea though I mentioned it in several other threads.

cutthemdown
04-13-2009, 05:06 PM
I don't really get this whole "its a weak draft, horrible time to have a ton of picks!" meme that is starting to saturate this board.

Its weak at the top, only Aaron Curry, Jason Smith, and Eugene Monroe are legit top 5 prospects. I'd only add Crabtree and Andre Smith to that list when talking about top 10 prospects.

But the value from the early teens of the first round back to about the mid-3rd is very good, especially for 3-4 OLB types, interior linemen, and WR. The ILB class is a little shallower than everyone thought heading in, but its still better than any season in the last few years considering total depth of the talent pool. The OT class is very nice through the first round, arguably better than last year's rich class. The RB pool goes about 4 rounds deep. Safety lacks the top end stud (unless you count Malcolm Jenkins, who will probably play FS in the NFL) but its fat with good talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

It really sucks at corner and DT is, like almost every year, very shallow. It doesn't have the massive waves of depth that last year's class had, but last year's class was something of an aberation in its own right. There aren't many prototypical 4-3 DEs of any real value (which is why Ayers is climbing so fast), but those are rare as hell too.

The place to be in this draft is about 15-100. That is where you can hit good value. Our first pick is just a hair earlier, not a huge penalty as you're just talking a few million over the life of the deal. Our second 1st is right in the start of the sweet spot. We've now got a 2nd and two 3rds that stay within the heart of that range.

Ideal world we'll be able to flip #12 to move into the late teens/early 20's and recoup a late 2nd/early 3rd in the process, then flip #18 for a '10 first and a 2nd this year. Not because there aren't two good value picks to be made at each spot, but instead because if we do that we still have a 1st in the early part of the fat part of this draft and pick up two additional picks in the middle of the sweet spot while also securing more '10 value.

That way in 2010 we can again trade a 1st for future picks and continue to stockpile back through the draft. The Cutler trade can pay dividends if McDaniels just makes smart picks, but it'll pay its highest return if we use this new found wealth of picks to wheel and deal, positioning ourselves for the prospects we want while parlaying value inequalities into future value. That way we're draft rich not just in '09 and '10, but also in '11, '12, and for just as long as we can find teams willing to let us extort multiple picks from them, which if the draft's history is any example, there's a team willing to rob Peter to pay Paul every single year, if not multiple teams, so it could go on for quite some time.


Some players like Lauranatis would have went higher last yr. Lot's of good linebacking we should grab one of them for sure just like last yr with the OT.

Hell maybe grab 2 linebackers because they do seem to play good right away if they are going to be good ones.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 05:11 PM
But the value from the early teens of the first round back to about the mid-3rd is very good, especially for 3-4 OLB types, interior linemen, and WR. The ILB class is a little shallower than everyone thought heading in, but its still better than any season in the last few years considering total depth of the talent pool. The OT class is very nice through the first round, arguably better than last year's rich class. The RB pool goes about 4 rounds deep. Safety lacks the top end stud (unless you count Malcolm Jenkins, who will probably play FS in the NFL) but its fat with good talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

It really sucks at corner and DT is, like almost every year, very shallow. It doesn't have the massive waves of depth that last year's class had, but last year's class was something of an aberation in its own right. There aren't many prototypical 4-3 DEs of any real value (which is why Ayers is climbing so fast), but those are rare as hell too.
OK assuming what you're saying is accurate; it breaks down that the things we need most; 3-4 OLB's, RB's, S, and DT...are all there into the 2nd or 3rd except for the DT spot. It sounds like we could fill 3 spots with a reasonable shot at starting, 4 if you count picking up another pick in a trade with one of the 1st rounders. The only thing on your list that looks like it requires the #12 pick for might be Raji or Jackson if they think he's gone by 18. So why not stock up for next year JUST IN CASE...we need a real shot at a franchise QB next season? Stockpiling picks is great...but most of the time the one thing you can't find after the top of the draft is a true top tier QB.

FireFly
04-13-2009, 05:24 PM
Wow...

No Stafford, no Sanchez.

Hey wow! Well spotted.

I'd love for them both to fall to 12, someone would have to be willing to move up for them?

I like the idea of trying to pick up another 1st next year, but wouldn't want to do it for anything less than an additional 2nd this year.

I also disagree with it being a weak draft class, I think its just weak in the top 7-8. After that and particularly beyond 10, there will be good players taken.

FireFly
04-13-2009, 05:27 PM
Some players like Lauranatis would have went higher last yr. Lot's of good linebacking we should grab one of them for sure just like last yr with the OT.

Hell maybe grab 2 linebackers because they do seem to play good right away if they are going to be good ones.

I'd completely endorse this. Lauranatis is another player I'd love to see in a broncos uniform even though the hype for him in minimal at this point. i don't want to reach for him or anything, but if things fell out and we were in a spot where he was one of the BPA's, I'd be very happy for us to take him.

And I love the idea of 2 LB's in the 1st. Or one in the first and one in the second.

OABB
04-13-2009, 05:34 PM
Have you heard of sampling theory ? Your quality posts from the past can be seen from the few you have been posting lately or may be you are like shanny, had some good years and you are thinking you are way too good. But in reality you have become a mental midget and you are thinking others are so.. Hilarious!

dude...I don't even know what this thread is about, but I just want to say that you are the biggest ahole this website has. And that is saying a lot.

You only come here and insult people about their threads(montrose...etc.) and yet you post the stupidest **** here.

you even neg repped me because my adopt a bronco was Matt Cassel.

I just wanted to come here and remind everyone what a giant giant pile of vaginal discharged soaked douche bag you are in case any one forgot.

That is all, bye bye.

footstepsfrom#27
04-13-2009, 05:39 PM
dude...I don't even know what this thread is about, but I just want to say that you are the biggest ahole this website has. And that is saying a lot.

You only come here and insult people about their threads(montrose...etc.) and yet you post the stupidest **** here.

you even neg repped me because my adopt a bronco was Matt Cassel.

I just wanted to come here and remind everyone what a giant giant pile of vaginal discharged soaked douche bag you are in case any one forgot.

That is all, bye bye.
Quit picking on him...he's got a lot of *diversity* to overcome. ;D

cutthemdown
04-13-2009, 05:39 PM
Just remember people that its better to get a stud at any position then a bust at the spot you need.

Broncos just need to draft three or four players that turn into good NFL starters. Sure it would be nice to get a total star, but starters that play well is the goal.

Honestly I will take a stud RB over a crap bust DE. I'm not saying any of them are busts only that you have to hope the team chooses best players and really could care less what position they play.

I like a couple of the centers in this draft and some of the guards. We have 3 young olineman, 1 vet, and then an old war horse at center. Don't be surprised if the team remedies that by end of the 3rd or 4th round, hell maybe even higher.

BroncoInferno
04-13-2009, 06:49 PM
By nearly all accounts I've read, this is a very weak draft, which to my way of thinking this means the assets we have are worth less, especially near the top of the draft. Some say the value at the top 10 picks is very poor and the talent level at 18-32 is basically the same. I don't like trading up...and I'm not sure how much we'd profit by trading down since other teams know they're not getting great value when the move higher.

Here's a thought...

Why not trade one of our 1st round picks to a team likely to suck this year for their 1st rounder in 2010? It would probably need to be the #12 pick, but so what? It sounds like the 18th is just as good or nearly so. This happens pretty often...a team is either enamored with a certain guy they can't get otherwise because they don't have extra picks this year or else they're simply taking a "cross that bridge when we come to it" approach to losing a 1st rounder next year. Since this is a weak draft and next year is stronger, why keep the extra pick if we can move it? Even if we guessed wrong and somebody has a better than expected year, this year's #12 might be no better than next year's 25th. In fact Mayock and others are saying that's true of this year anyway...so in a stronger draft next year the 25th pick might actually be BETTER than this year's #12 pick...and certainly cheaper to pay.

Going into a stronger 2010 draft with 3 #1 picks would be sweet, especially since we'll have a much better idea what our QB situation looks like by then. The FO would also have been through one draft so they'd have had some time to make any adjustments necessary. Assume for the sake of argument that we trade the #12 pick to the Bills and they finish next season with the 15th pick in the draft. Let's say we finish 7-9 this year and have the 10th pick in 2010 plus Chicago's pick...probably in the 23-30 range....I'll say 26. That would give us picks at 10, 15 and 26 which would easily give us the ammo to move up high enough for almost any player in the draft we want, including a franchise QB (if Orton proves he's not the guy). If Orton proves he's the answer then we have 3 #1 picks in a stronger draft to build the defense with. We could even conceivably wind up with multiple picks in the top 4 rounds with this approach.

Discuss...

I don't think it has ever happened where a team traded a current years #1 for a #1 the next year straight up. Usually what happens is something like what we did with the Skins in '05, traded down into round 3 in exchange for the 2006 #1 pick. That is the type of deal we would look to do. For example, if Freeman is at #18, some team may want to move from the top of round 2 to get him. So, we move to, say, pick 35 and get a #1 next season. But a straight up one for one would be dumb. Too many unknown variables. The team you trade with may end up being a lot better than they currently look, so you may end up picking in the 20s the next year. And what currently looks like a strong draft may look a lot different in a year.

Cito Pelon
04-13-2009, 09:42 PM
My point is not really what else we could get in return, but whether we'd like to be sitting in the 2010 draft with 3 1st rounders and possibly needing a QB. Obviously you get whatever you can get...it just seems smarter to have high picks in a year when the draft is considered better AND there are highly ranked QB's coming out. It's not like we don't have an extra #1 this year anyway.

It's a risk...but even if we dropped down some in the pecking order it seems like the talent level being what it's projected to be it wouldn't make much difference.

I can see your point, but it would take some more than just a 2010 swap for the 12. Bird in the hand vs. two in the bush.

baja
04-13-2009, 09:45 PM
I can see your point, but it would take some more than just a 2010 swap for the 12. Bird in the hand vs. two in the bush.

Bush hasn't been president for over 3 months now can't you let go of the guy/ Oh wait that bush like in shrubbery, right. Never Mind.

Cito Pelon
04-13-2009, 09:56 PM
I don't really get this whole "its a weak draft, horrible time to have a ton of picks!" meme that is starting to saturate this board.. . . .the value from the early teens of the first round back to about the mid-3rd is very good, especially for 3-4 OLB types, interior linemen . . . . .

Agreed.

anon
04-13-2009, 10:08 PM
In another thread, somebody brought up the idea of starting a "trust fund" of draft picks. With all picks we have from the Cutler trade, we can basically build up a strong number of picks, especially in rounds 2-4.

For example, we trade #12 or #18 for a 2nd round pick this year and a 1st round pick next year. Then next year, we'll have 3 first round picks -- we can trade one of them for a first the next year and another 2nd rounders, and so on and so on. I think if we are able to consistently stockpile a bunch of picks in rounds 2-5, the franchise will be able to reload regularly and contend. Picking high increases your chances of finding a superstar, but the meat of a team still comes from the middle rounds.

I also agree about being safe and drafting for solid, lunchpail value, rather than going for the "Mel Kiper" home runs. Unfortunately for us, DE and DT are probably some of the bust prone of high draft picks -- aside from dealing with just the transition to the NFL, there often are "motor" questions about some of these big fellahs. Even some of the ones who manage to prove themselves in the NFL still don't bring it every play, as the questions with Peppers and Haynesworth demonstrate. Regardless, it seems like we're going to have to take a gamble here with our 1st round pick this year. LBs, RBs seem to be safer picks in general.

BABronco
04-14-2009, 12:16 AM
In another thread, somebody brought up the idea of starting a "trust fund" of draft picks. With all picks we have from the Cutler trade, we can basically build up a strong number of picks, especially in rounds 2-4.

For example, we trade #12 or #18 for a 2nd round pick this year and a 1st round pick next year. Then next year, we'll have 3 first round picks -- we can trade one of them for a first the next year and another 2nd rounders, and so on and so on. I think if we are able to consistently stockpile a bunch of picks in rounds 2-5, the franchise will be able to reload regularly and contend. Picking high increases your chances of finding a superstar, but the meat of a team still comes from the middle rounds.

I also agree about being safe and drafting for solid, lunchpail value, rather than going for the "Mel Kiper" home runs. Unfortunately for us, DE and DT are probably some of the bust prone of high draft picks -- aside from dealing with just the transition to the NFL, there often are "motor" questions about some of these big fellahs. Even some of the ones who manage to prove themselves in the NFL still don't bring it every play, as the questions with Peppers and Haynesworth demonstrate. Regardless, it seems like we're going to have to take a gamble here with our 1st round pick this year. LBs, RBs seem to be safer picks in general.

Kinda what i was getting at earlier, but you put it much better. I like the OP idea. If we got another first next year we would own a little shy of 10% of the #1 picks. Odds are one of those picks are going to be a high one.

Perhaps with that high pick we can start a bidding war for Tebow/Bradford/McCoy ... whoever it maybe that has fallen to our spot (this depends on our qb situation of course but if you believe McD about Orton then no worries) and get a couple good picks from a desperate team.

Actually, I'm kinda in love with this idea. I wonder what kind of bidding war we could get going on.

ZONA
04-14-2009, 01:06 AM
We already have 2 first round picks in 2010....we don't need 3.

I say keep both of them this year.

I could see trading down with one of our first rounders and maybe picking up a 2nd or 3rd round pick in 2010.

The more I think about it this sounds like the best option and probably one that more teams would be interested in as well. I don't think you will see many teams line up to take our 12th for their 1st and 2nd rounder next year, when that draft is supposed to be a very strong draft.

But I would not trade out 12th. I'd love to see if Jackson is there with that pick and I would snag him. If we do land him, you bet, I would be open to moving down from #18 to say #25 if we could secure a 2nd round pick next year for it.

lex
04-14-2009, 01:11 AM
The more I think about it this sounds like the best option and probably one that more teams would be interested in as well. I don't think you will see many teams line up to take our 12th for their 1st and 2nd rounder next year, when that draft is supposed to be a very strong draft.

But I would not trade out 12th. I'd love to see if Jackson is there with that pick and I would snag him. If we do land him, you bet, I would be open to moving down from #18 to say #25 if we could secure a 2nd round pick next year for it.

How good does a 3-4 DE have to be for him to be worth a #12 pick?

Drek
04-14-2009, 04:32 AM
OK assuming what you're saying is accurate; it breaks down that the things we need most; 3-4 OLB's, RB's, S, and DT...are all there into the 2nd or 3rd except for the DT spot. It sounds like we could fill 3 spots with a reasonable shot at starting, 4 if you count picking up another pick in a trade with one of the 1st rounders. The only thing on your list that looks like it requires the #12 pick for might be Raji or Jackson if they think he's gone by 18. So why not stock up for next year JUST IN CASE...we need a real shot at a franchise QB next season? Stockpiling picks is great...but most of the time the one thing you can't find after the top of the draft is a true top tier QB.
Thats exactly what I finished the post you quoted with.

We've got a wealth of picks this year, and a start on it for next year. We should be looking to use some of our higher value picks this year to add high value picks in next year's class, plus more picks in the heart of this draft's depth.

We don't need to keep #12 or #18, but we should probably look to keep one pick in the top 25. Other than that I'm all for moving back if it means we get deals like what Carolina and Philly swung last year, with Philly picking up a '09 first, an early 2nd, and an early 4th, for the 19th pick.

Its not worth giving up a 1 for a 1 because you can definitely get a team to give you a lot more. Too many organizations think they're in win now mode and will sacrafice future picks to try and make the '09 splash. Dallas is a big candidate for that this year, since they don't have a 1st but do have a 2nd and the Lion's fourth. I'd trade them #18 for those two picks and their '10 first.

That is the very best way to play this. Parlay the riches we possess in this year's draft into what basically amounts to interest building wealth. Every year we trade back we in actuality would've gotten more picks and more value for Cutler.

As for what I'm saying, I know its accurate. Just compare prospects to other players when they came out. Orakpo and Everette Brown measure up every bit with Shawn Merriman (who used roids to reach that level) and Demarcus Ware when they came out of college. Both where taken in the 10-15 range. Doesn't mean Orakpo and Brown will be those kinds of guys, but they have that kind of prospect pedigree.

BJ Raji is a perfect corellation in my eyes for Haloti Ngata, the 14th overall pick a few years back. Raji will go slightly higher because there isn't a Mario Williams, Reggie Bush, or three very promising QBs just to name a few ahead of him, but he's worthy of a top 15 pick without a doubt.

And thats just going over the top end. LeSean McCoy, Rashard Jennings, and a handful of other RBs who will go between the 2nd and 4th rounds this year all have what it takes to perform well at the NFL level and compare very well to their peers in last year's draft class who went in the same range. There isn't quite the top end depth that we saw last year with McFadden, Stewart, Johnson, Felix Jones, and Mendenhall, but the quality of player teams will be taking in round 2 this year will be a pretty comparable back to what they took in last year's class.

As for the 3-4 DE, I think this class is very rich at 3-4 DE prospects, but they're all later round draft and develop types. Will Johnson, Zach Potter, Rulon Davis, Khalif Mitchell, and a host of others all have the physical tools and experience on the line. They just need it converted over to the 5-tech and developed appropriately. Take Zach Potter for example. Tall, has a nose for passing lanes, but isn't a natural pass rusher. Well you don't need that in a 5-tech DE, just the ability to create a little push. He's a dead ringer for Brett Keisel of the Steelers, but he needs to go somewhere that'll give him the development time to become that kind of player.

Fixing the Broncos franchise starts with the player development process more than anything else. We need to get to where the Steelers, Pats, Colts, and Ravens are where we're using the draft to fill maybe one or two immediate holes cheaply, but then using the rest of our picks on developmental guys who pay off a couple years down the road when those diamonds in the rough have been polished. Until our organization gets that figured out (which Shanahan was miles away from doing) this will always be one step behind the afore mentioned teams when it comes to actually winning football games.

baja
04-14-2009, 07:30 AM
In another thread, somebody brought up the idea of starting a "trust fund" of draft picks. With all picks we have from the Cutler trade, we can basically build up a strong number of picks, especially in rounds 2-4.

For example, we trade #12 or #18 for a 2nd round pick this year and a 1st round pick next year. Then next year, we'll have 3 first round picks -- we can trade one of them for a first the next year and another 2nd rounders, and so on and so on. I think if we are able to consistently stockpile a bunch of picks in rounds 2-5, the franchise will be able to reload regularly and contend. Picking high increases your chances of finding a superstar, but the meat of a team still comes from the middle rounds.

I also agree about being safe and drafting for solid, lunchpail value, rather than going for the "Mel Kiper" home runs. Unfortunately for us, DE and DT are probably some of the bust prone of high draft picks -- aside from dealing with just the transition to the NFL, there often are "motor" questions about some of these big fellahs. Even some of the ones who manage to prove themselves in the NFL still don't bring it every play, as the questions with Peppers and Haynesworth demonstrate. Regardless, it seems like we're going to have to take a gamble here with our 1st round pick this year. LBs, RBs seem to be safer picks in general.

Great plan I like it.We could build a great team and maintain it for a good long time.

The biggest question about the McDaniels era for me is can they draft?

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2009, 07:36 AM
How good does a 3-4 DE have to be for him to be worth a #12 pick?

Richard Seymour.

lex
04-14-2009, 05:46 PM
Richard Seymour.

So, a 3-4 DE has to be as good as Richard Seymour for him to be worth taking at 12? Is that what your saying? If so, its probably worth pointing out that out in the 2001 draft class, 7 of the first 13 picks were defensive linemen. Four of them were DTs. Seymours value wasnt over inflated by a dearth of DTs.

Beantown Bronco
04-14-2009, 08:02 PM
So, a 3-4 DE has to be as good as Richard Seymour for him to be worth taking at 12? Is that what your saying?

Yes

If so, its probably worth pointing out that out in the 2001 draft class, 7 of the first 13 picks were defensive linemen. Four of them were DTs. Seymours value wasnt over inflated by a dearth of DTs.

Why is it worth noting that a bunch of teams reached on guys that didn't live up to where they were drafted?

3. Cleveland Browns - Gerard Warren, DT Florida
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Justin Smith, DE Missouri
6. New England Patriots - Richard Seymour, DT Georgia
7. San Francisco 49ers (from Seattle from Dallas) - Andre Carter, DE California
10. Green Bay (from Seattle) - Jamal Reynolds, DE Florida State
12. St. Louis Rams (from Kansas City) - Damione Lewis, DT Miami
13. Jacksonville Jaguars - Marcus Stroud, DT Georgia

How many of those teams other than the Pats, knowing then what they know now, would make the same selection? And that's not even taking into account the fact that the debate was specifically 3-4 DEs. It's not a position that typically gets drafted that high.

lex
04-14-2009, 11:38 PM
Yes



Why is it worth noting that a bunch of teams reached on guys that didn't live up to where they were drafted?

3. Cleveland Browns - Gerard Warren, DT Florida
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Justin Smith, DE Missouri
6. New England Patriots - Richard Seymour, DT Georgia
7. San Francisco 49ers (from Seattle from Dallas) - Andre Carter, DE California
10. Green Bay (from Seattle) - Jamal Reynolds, DE Florida State
12. St. Louis Rams (from Kansas City) - Damione Lewis, DT Miami
13. Jacksonville Jaguars - Marcus Stroud, DT Georgia

How many of those teams other than the Pats, knowing then what they know now, would make the same selection? And that's not even taking into account the fact that the debate was specifically 3-4 DEs. It's not a position that typically gets drafted that high.

They were drafting to what they felt were needs.

Beantown Bronco
04-15-2009, 07:27 AM
They were drafting to what they felt were needs.

I understand that, but the question was "worth". I'm sure if you asked those teams today, all but one or two will say it wasn't "worth it" to make those selections.

Regardless, none of them outside of Seymour were 3-4 DEs which was the original criteria anyway. I will stand firm on this. If you are going to take a 3-4 DE with the 12th pick in the draft, they better be dominant. Serviceable, marginal, or bust-like won't get it done.