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Hulamau
04-12-2009, 12:52 AM
Klis: If Jaguars dance, Broncos pick No. 8
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 04/12/2009 12:30:00 AM MDT

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders can lock themselves into secrecy from now until draft day, and it might not matter.

There is a potential trade so logical, it all but leaps off the draft value chart.

Providing the Jacksonville Jaguars are willing partners, the Broncos could easily leap from their No. 12 overall draft pick to No. 8. (Credit the Walter Camp draft-niks for first pointing this out).

The No. 8 spot would be significant to the Broncos if their preference is defensive tackle B.J. Raji, quarterback Mark Sanchez or Texas defensive end/outside linebacker Brian Orakpo.

As it stands now, someone would have to lace Raji's brownies between now and April 25 for the projected 3-4 nose tackle to fall past Green Bay with the No. 9 pick.

The San Francisco 49ers, having failed with Alex Smith as their franchise quarterback, cannot allow Sanchez to drop beyond their No. 10 pick.

And Orakpo, a physical freak who possesses the greatest pass- rushing potential, probably wouldn't get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Buffalo at No. 11.

According to the last known draft value chart, the No. 8 draft pick is worth 1,400 points while the No. 12 pick is worth 1,200. To those who had a little too much Saturday night fun, that's a difference of 200 points.

That extra third-round pick the Broncos got from the Bears in the Jay Cutler trade? It allows the Broncos to sacrifice their first third- round pick, No. 79 overall. The No. 79 pick is worth 195 points on the draft value chart.

Or close enough.

McDaniels and Xanders would never state their preference with their No. 12 pick. But it's no secret they may have to move up to get him.

Youthful minds.

Forget his lineage to New England and Bill Belichick. By getting superstar-like compensation in return for Cutler (Kyle Orton and two first-round picks, besides the third-rounder), Mc- Daniels could eventually generate comparisons to another Boston sports boss Theo Epstein.

If only McDaniels can break the Elway Curse.

Epstein was 28 when he was daringly hired by Red Sox president Larry Lucchino to become general manager of the storied major- league baseball franchise following the 2002 season. Epstein was 30 when he built a team so strong, it broke the Curse of the Bambino by winning the 2004 World Series.

And as Rockies fans may remember, the Epstein-built Red Sox won another Series in 2007.

The sports nation is becoming increasingly fascinated with the notion that young minds explore beyond conventional wisdom. It may or may not be a coincidence that Joe Ellis, the Broncos' chief operating officer and Pat Bowlen's right-hand man, got his first sports job as a Red Sox vendor.

With the Broncos winning just one playoff game in the 10 years since quarterback John Elway retired, ideas floating outside the normal noggin should at least be worth a try.

No news, good news?

With the NFL draft less than two weeks away, the silence from the NFL office on Brandon Marshall is an encouraging sound to those locked behind closed doors at Dove Valley.

If Marshall were to receive a stiff sentence for violating the league's personal conduct policy, commissioner Roger Goodell, in the name of competitive fairness, likely would have issued his finding before the draft, as he did by levying a three-game suspension on Buffalo running back Marshawn Lynch.

To wit: The commissioner understands that if he was going to suspend Marshall for, say, eight games, the Broncos would have to draft a receiver within the first two rounds.

Marshall, who served a one-game suspension last year, was arrested March 1 in Atlanta following an argument with his fiancee. Charges were dismissed the next morning.

That the charges evaporated almost immediately, coupled with ample evidence that Marshall has genuinely tried to become a better person in the past year (see his volunteer time with at-risk children), may cause Goodell to decide against a harsh ruling that would potentially ruin a promising career.

Marshall can still expect some punishment. But there is reason for the Broncos to hope his suspension will be closer to zero games than eight.

Doggcow
04-12-2009, 01:01 AM
Dear god no. There will be so much talent at 12 and 18 anyway, not to mention tons in the 3rd too!

Hercules Rockefeller
04-12-2009, 01:03 AM
Wow, an entire article of speculation based entirely on the draft pick value chart.

Broncojef
04-12-2009, 01:05 AM
This idea really, really scares me. I hope if we do this its because Raji is still there at #8 and thats the guy they've decided they need long term. Still I'd prefer to hangout at 12 and keep the third rounder. So help me God if this is for Sanchez I'm gonna puke.

OBF1
04-12-2009, 01:23 AM
IF Raji is sitting there at 8, it would be well served to trade up and grab him. If we are indeed going to a 3-4, We have to have a big man in the middle.

Hulamau
04-12-2009, 01:29 AM
IF Raji is sitting there at 8, it would be well served to trade up and grab him. If we are indeed going to a 3-4, We have to have a big man in the middle.

Raji is the only one I'd go that far to get as well, and even still Ron Fields isn't chopped liver if you surround him with a couple decent tackles and OLB/DEs. I like Thomas and Carlton Powell on either side of Fields (Or Ravi), or Jackson sliding inside on passing downs if we grab him ( hopefully at #18)

cutthemdown
04-12-2009, 01:33 AM
I think moving up for the sake of a 3rd round pick would be a smart move. No reason to risk missing the guy you want for a 3rd round pick.

TheChamp24
04-12-2009, 01:44 AM
I wouldn't mind a trade up if it only cost us a 3rd round pick, and it was for Raji. I have my doubts about Orakpo.

What I found out also, that a lot of these prospects slotted to go after pick 10, they aren't exactly guys that intrigue me very much, and its like this draft doesn't seem very front loaded at all, which is disapointing. I mean, Jackson seems like a good pick, but it just seems like to me he is a late 1st/2nd round prospect who is jumped up because of the weak class. Raji is already benefitting as I don't think he's top 10 pick good, but whatever.

Popps
04-12-2009, 01:57 AM
I do wish the front office would get the Marshall thing over with. If you want to punish the player, punish him... but you're punishing the team by not allowing us to know where we stand, at this point.

Get it over with, Goddell. We're a couple weeks from the friggin' thing.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-12-2009, 02:48 AM
Even if Marshall got suspended, i dont understand why that would require Denver to draft a receiver in the first 2 rounds. What are the chances that receiver is going to contribute much in those games and, in the grand scheme of things, what does it matter? Last time I checked, you draft for the future...with years in mind. Not a few games.

Atwater His Ass
04-12-2009, 03:05 AM
IF Raji is sitting there at 8, it would be well served to trade up and grab him. If we are indeed going to a 3-4, We have to have a big man in the middle.

I'm ok with this. However, if we trade up (even draft a QB on the first day) I'm killing every kitten I can find until the season starts.

DBBBSBS
04-12-2009, 03:44 AM
This guy stole what is discussed on all blogs and bronco fan sites and makes up articles and he writes crap most of the times. time to close this idiot off in a closet as well

broncofan7
04-12-2009, 05:18 AM
This guy stole what is discussed on all blogs and bronco fan sites and makes up articles and he writes crap most of the times. time to close this idiot off in a closet as well

i concur.....

BroncoMan4ever
04-12-2009, 07:41 AM
why waste another good pick to move up 4 spots, when there is still going to be ample opportunity to get talent at 12 and 18?

baja
04-12-2009, 07:50 AM
I do wish the front office would get the Marshall thing over with. If you want to punish the player, punish him... but you're punishing the team by not allowing us to know where we stand, at this point.

Get it over with, Goddell. We're a couple weeks from the friggin' thing.

good point

Gort
04-12-2009, 07:53 AM
I think moving up for the sake of a 3rd round pick would be a smart move. No reason to risk missing the guy you want for a 3rd round pick.

so you'd trade 2 draft picks for 1 draft pick? i wouldn't.

baja
04-12-2009, 08:16 AM
so you'd trade 2 draft picks for 1 draft pick? i wouldn't.

Depends how much you value the player, guy does have nice teets.

Gort
04-12-2009, 08:25 AM
Depends how much you value the player, guy does have nice teets.

this team needs players to compete. i'd take a 1st round defensive pick and a 3rd round defensive pick over a slightly higher 1st round defensive pick. that's 2 quality players in camp vs. one quality player.

Drek
04-12-2009, 08:38 AM
IF Raji is sitting there at 8, it would be well served to trade up and grab him. If we are indeed going to a 3-4, We have to have a big man in the middle.

Raji is not a great fit as a traditional nose. If we want to run a straight up 3-4 then Raji isn't the guy. He doesn't dominate at stuffing the run like you'd want from a stereotypical NT and he is too good a pass rusher to not let him attack the QB with some regularity.

If we run the 3-4/4-3 hybrid that I think Nolan wants then Raji would be a great fit, but in a straight 3-4 he's only a marginally better option than Ron Brace and possibly even Dorrell Scott.

Tombstone RJ
04-12-2009, 09:23 AM
why waste another good pick to move up 4 spots, when there is still going to be ample opportunity to get talent at 12 and 18?

Well, its simple really. You move up to get a specific player that will not be around when you pick at 12 and 18.

If McD thinks Raji or Orakpo are worth moving up 4 spots to get, then I say hell yah!

If they move up for a QB, I'll shoot my TV.

Paladin
04-12-2009, 09:26 AM
Raji would not be worth the extra pick. In fact, I am made to think he would not be a good value at 12. There is some question as to whether he is a NT prospect. There are several who can be had in the second and even the third round. Even a good O player would be a better value at 12. There is little to be gained trading up this year, Most of the draftnicks on the Draft Board are saying that.

Klis is nuts, and uncreative to boot......

Hamrob
04-12-2009, 09:55 AM
why waste another good pick to move up 4 spots, when there is still going to be ample opportunity to get talent at 12 and 18?I think we are bound and determined to trade up somewhere. Why? I don't think they want to or can afford to sign all these guys.

I don't remembe the article, but McDaniels alluded to having the ability to trade up with so many draft picks. I think they want to...both to get a better player...and also, so they don't have to sign 5 top 85 guys.

My preference would be to stay at 12 and get the BPA that also fits a need....i.e. a front seven guy or I hate to say it...Sanchez if he falls.

Then...do the same thing with your 18...BPA to improve your front seven.

Then with 48...you perhaps throw in a 3rd to move up to the late 1st to grab another key ingrediant to improving our front 7.

12 - Rajii/Tyson Jackson/Sanchez
18 - Cushing/Jerry/Maulaluga
30 - Laurenitus/Hood/Sintim/English

If we get 1 out of each of those tiers...we'll be very, very fortunate! Then we still have the rest of our draft to add depth and gamble a little.

SoCalBronco
04-12-2009, 10:06 AM
I wouldn't mind giving up that 3rd to secure Raji. We need that NT. It is the key to the whole defense.

DrFate
04-12-2009, 10:30 AM
Wow, an entire article of speculation based entirely on the draft pick value chart.

I guess they felt they had to print SOMETHING

:)

DrFate
04-12-2009, 10:31 AM
I wouldn't mind giving up that 3rd to secure Raji. We need that NT. It is the key to the whole defense.

Is the marajuana report a concern, SoCal? Or the talk that he isn't a true 3-4 nose?

DrFate
04-12-2009, 10:33 AM
If they move up for a QB, I'll shoot my TV.

:rofl:

Captain 'Dre
04-12-2009, 10:41 AM
Even if Marshall got suspended, i dont understand why that would require Denver to draft a receiver in the first 2 rounds. What are the chances that receiver is going to contribute much in those games and, in the grand scheme of things, what does it matter? Last time I checked, you draft for the future...with years in mind. Not a few games.

Word.

Mogulseeker
04-12-2009, 11:00 AM
I think it's been said before:

I would be SO for this if it's to get Raji...
Sanchez? Not so much.

barryr
04-12-2009, 11:11 AM
If Raji is there at #12, go ahead and take him, but I don't see the sense in trading up for him. I don't see him as an all pro NT.

BroncoLifer
04-12-2009, 12:01 PM
Even if Marshall got suspended, i dont understand why that would require Denver to draft a receiver in the first 2 rounds. What are the chances that receiver is going to contribute much in those games and, in the grand scheme of things, what does it matter? Last time I checked, you draft for the future...with years in mind. Not a few games.

You are absolutely correct and Klis' comment makes it clear that, to borrow the immortal words of Mel Kiper (one of the few times I can agree with him), it obvious to me right now that Klis just doesn't understand what the draft is all about.

TheChamp24
04-12-2009, 01:47 PM
I think it is hilarious how much value people clamor over a 3rd round pick, assuming that pick will come in and play well.
I'd rather trade up and get a potential stud, rather than sit back and get a quality guy and an average guy.
We don't need quantity right now, we need QUALITY. 5 picks in the first 3 rounds, trade up and secure good talent.

BroncoBuff
04-12-2009, 01:53 PM
I'd give up that 3rd rounder if we can bag Raji .....

NFLBRONCO
04-12-2009, 03:53 PM
If it cost NO a 2nd to move up from 10 to 7 last year. How will it cost Denver a 3rd to move from 12 to 8???? The numbers match but, seems too easy to me.

27atwater
04-12-2009, 03:59 PM
I like Tyson Jackson too much to give up both #1s and a #3 to move up for Raji. If we're gonna reach/overspend for a NT prospect, we should get TJax at #12 and then reach on Brace w/ the #18.

Personally...gimme TJax and Sintim in rd 1 and draft Taylor and Scott in rd #3...both are solid NT prospects.

tsiguy96
04-12-2009, 04:00 PM
If it cost NO a 2nd to move up from 10 to 7 last year. How will it cost Denver a 3rd to move from 12 to 8???? The numbers match but, seems too easy to me.

takes two to dance, whoever they traded with probably said 2nd or no dice and NO really wanted (was it ellis?) so they had to make the move so they got him.

tsiguy96
04-12-2009, 04:01 PM
also, i really hope we dont move up to get raji. he is a 43 DT, not a 34 NT by most accounts. sure he could PLAY nt, but the jets tried the same thing with d-rob and it clearly didnt work. if he was a sure fire NT id say yes, but there are multiple NT like brace (who is supposed to be the more conventional NT instead of DT) that can be had later

DBBBSBS
04-12-2009, 06:15 PM
I like Tyson Jackson too much to give up both #1s and a #3 to move up for Raji. If we're gonna reach/overspend for a NT prospect, we should get TJax at #12 and then reach on Brace w/ the #18.

Personally...gimme TJax and Sintim in rd 1 and draft Taylor and Scott in rd #3...both are solid NT prospects.

who is giving up both the #1's ?

giving 3rd (79th) to move from 12 to 8. and if raji is there and it is to get him.. i dont mind at all

mhgaffney
04-12-2009, 06:17 PM
It would be cheaper to move up and get Brace in the second round.

SoCalBronco
04-12-2009, 07:01 PM
If it cost NO a 2nd to move up from 10 to 7 last year. How will it cost Denver a 3rd to move from 12 to 8???? The numbers match but, seems too easy to me.

That's a good point, but this is not a very deep draft. Everyone will be trying to trade down so they'll probably take anything thats not horrible just to accomplish the trade down.

footstepsfrom#27
04-12-2009, 07:10 PM
That's a good point, but this is not a very deep draft. Everyone will be trying to trade down so they'll probably take anything thats not horrible just to accomplish the trade down.
SoCal...correct this if it's wrong since you're paying more attention to this than I am, but from what I've heard this draft's value is in the mid-first downward, with the picks 1-10 not being appreciably different than those from 18-32...meaning it would be foolish to trade up. That said...I agree on the NT spot being key. In your opinion can this BC kid be a top flight NT or not? If not I don't see another guy worth moving up for.

Also...do you think Everette Brown will be thre at #18 and if so...is he a DE or an OLB in the NFL? If he's there would you take him there? I've seen this guy listed as high as #5 and as low as the 2nd round. Where's he slotting right now?

SoCalBronco
04-12-2009, 07:14 PM
SoCal...correct this if it's wrong since you're paying more attention to this than I am, but from what I've heard this draft's value is in the mid-first downward, with the picks 1-10 not being appreciably different than those from 18-32...meaning it would be foolish to trade up. That said...I agree on the NT spot being key. In your opinion can this BC kid be a top flight NT or not? If not I don't see another guy worth moving up for.

Also...do you think Everette Brown will be thre at #18 and if so...is he a DE or an OLB? If he's there would you take him there? I've seen this guy listed as high as #5 and as low as the 2nd round. Where's he slotting right now?

Raji certainly has more skills than you would expect for a 3-4 NT in the sense that he's not purely a space-eater. He's disruptive. I think that's valuable. I don't just want some no-talent ultra fatass. I think Raji would be a good NT, although not immediately. He definitely would attract a double-team. There are some character concerns out there, though. I don't think Brown will be there at 18, or even 12, but I'd love Brown too as a 3-4 OLB prospect. I think Brown is probably going to go in the top 10 somewhere.

Finger Roll
04-12-2009, 07:14 PM
Did anybody see espn try to pass this same article up as a rumor to get bronco and jag fans to sign up for insider info

Hercules Rockefeller
04-12-2009, 07:21 PM
I think it is hilarious how much value people clamor over a 3rd round pick, assuming that pick will come in and play well.
I'd rather trade up and get a potential stud, rather than sit back and get a quality guy and an average guy.
We don't need quantity right now, we need QUALITY. 5 picks in the first 3 rounds, trade up and secure good talent.

Yeah, a "stud" because it's a weak draft. Hopefully the Broncos trade up and get a guy who would be a mid-1st in any other draft year.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-12-2009, 07:23 PM
SoCal...correct this if it's wrong since you're paying more attention to this than I am, but from what I've heard this draft's value is in the mid-first downward, with the picks 1-10 not being appreciably different than those from 18-32...meaning it would be foolish to trade up.

That is Mayock's belief, that the same relative talent level is available in the late teens/early 20's as there is in the Top 10.

SoDak Bronco
04-12-2009, 07:28 PM
That is Mayock's belief, that the same relative talent level is available in the late teens/early 20's as there is in the Top 10.

i agree with this, but when it comes to NT and QB, if they like Raji or Sanchez, it is def. worth the risk of trading up to grab "his" guy at #8. i know most people are not wanting anything to do with Sanchez, I personally would be all for grabbing him. Obviously it is a HUGE risk, but and it is a big but, if he pays off, we are a much better team with a top tier QB. ( I dont think orton or simms gives us that). Plus if we are trading up to 8 i dont thin Raji is there anyways.

FYI I hope we stay at #12 draft Tyson Jackson who is an immediate starter on our line. At #18 go after the best available defender, likely a Brian Cushing, P jerry, or possibly if he slips Ayers from Tenn.

footstepsfrom#27
04-12-2009, 07:38 PM
i agree with this, but when it comes to NT and QB, if they like Raji or Sanchez, it is def. worth the risk of trading up to grab "his" guy at #8. i know most people are not wanting anything to do with Sanchez, I personally would be all for grabbing him. Obviously it is a HUGE risk, but and it is a big but, if he pays off, we are a much better team with a top tier QB. ( I dont think orton or simms gives us that). Plus if we are trading up to 8 i dont thin Raji is there anyways.

FYI I hope we stay at #12 draft Tyson Jackson who is an immediate starter on our line. At #18 go after the best available defender, likely a Brian Cushing, P jerry, or possibly if he slips Ayers from Tenn.
Is Tyson Jackson a difference maker? From what I've read on him, he reminds me of Marcus Spears.

If Raji is good enough to be a solid starter in the middle I'd rather have him. Sanchez would be a major mistake IMO. He's less talented than either Freeman or Sanford and probably a product of the USC talent around him, much like Leinert. I can't see any scenario where McDaniels tries to move up for a QB anyway since that would be an admission that we need a QB.

TheChamp24
04-12-2009, 07:39 PM
Is Tyson Jackson a difference maker? From what I've read on him, he reminds me of Marcus Spears.

If Raji is good enough to be a solid starter in the middle I'd rather have him. Sanchez would be a major mistake IMO. He's less talented than either Freeman or Sanford and probably a product of the USC talent around him, much like Leinert. I can't see any scenario where McDaniels tries to move up for a QB anyway since that would be an admission that we need a QB.

Jackson IMO isn't a difference maker.

I think too many people are enamored with Tyson Jackson on these boards IMO.

footstepsfrom#27
04-12-2009, 07:39 PM
Raji certainly has more skills than you would expect for a 3-4 NT in the sense that he's not purely a space-eater. He's disruptive. I think that's valuable. I don't just want some no-talent ultra fatass. I think Raji would be a good NT, although not immediately. He definitely would attract a double-team. There are some character concerns out there, though. I don't think Brown will be there at 18, or even 12, but I'd love Brown too as a 3-4 OLB prospect. I think Brown is probably going to go in the top 10 somewhere.
So if Raji is gone but Brown is there at 8 would you do the deal for him?

SoCalBronco
04-12-2009, 07:42 PM
So if Raji is gone but Brown is there at 8 would you do the deal for him?

I wouldn't trade up for Brown, even though I think he'll make a good 3-4 pass rushing OLB, although I would definitely take him at 12. That's because I think there are several fairly good 3-4 pass rushing OLB prospects in this draft. But there is a dearth of quality NT prospects and having a quality NT is almost always a prerequisite for having a good 3-4 defense.

broncosteven
04-12-2009, 08:09 PM
I do wish the front office would get the Marshall thing over with. If you want to punish the player, punish him... but you're punishing the team by not allowing us to know where we stand, at this point.

Get it over with, Goddell. We're a couple weeks from the friggin' thing.

I'll take care of it!

PaintballCLE
04-12-2009, 08:32 PM
This Violates The New Om Posting Rules...........ban Him Lol

dbfan21
04-13-2009, 07:07 AM
Jumping in late in the thread here (sorry), but I am not really in favor of moving up. Just beciase we CAN move up, doesn't mean we SHOULD. With so many holes to fill and depth to build, having five pics in the first three rounds is exactly what we need.