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SouthStndJunkie
04-10-2009, 08:30 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/nfp-specialty-rankings-3-4-defense/

NFP Specialty Rankings: 3-4 Defense

In the final part of the National Football Post’s position analysis, we take a closer look at the nation’s top 3-4 defensive prospects. Every year, more NFL teams are in need of unique 3-4 position players, so let’s break down the top guys at each spot.

SouthStndJunkie
04-10-2009, 08:33 PM
I am impressed that they have Frantz Joseph, Florida Atlantic as the 3rd ranked 3-4 ILB.

Mediator12
04-11-2009, 12:30 AM
Interesting stuff to say the least.

1. Gilbert as the top 5 Technique in the draft? What are they smoking?
Gilbert has some major warning red flags like being inconsistent in a weak conference, not being very physical or tough as a DL, not being able to anchor against the run or Double team, and he struggled to beat OT's who will never see the light of day in an NFL camp let alone Real OT's. The guy does have tremendous upside, but you do not call a player with Upside the best 5 technique in the whole draft. Especially, when the 5 tech is a grinder gap control position and the guy is a one gap quickness type player.

2. I just got some film of Vaughn Martin, need to grade it though. He could be the highest DL drafted who did not attend the combine. Or, he could be the next Walter Thomas ;D

3. They left off Marlon Favorite of LSU as a NT at the next level. He is much more suited to play NT than Myron Pryor IMHO or several other of those "BIG" players they list as potential NT's.

4. However, I hate the big body argument against playing the run. NT is about attitude, lower body strength, technique, and explosion. The player has to be able to play a 2 gap style and not the single gap most 4-3 fronts utilize. These players are really rare.

Gabe Watson was supposed to be one coming out, but he was not. He could not hold the POA despite his size. The attitude to be a grunt worker is missed by a lot of DT's coming out of College because they all want to be the next Warren Sapp Pass rusher. They do not want to be the 2 gap guy who does the work every down and gets little glory. Attitude is the key to playing the run and very few guys are team players who will do the grunt work for the playmakers anymore. Everyone wants to one gap and have the opportnity to be the guy to make the play every snap.

5. Scott McKillop would make a great 3-4 ILB. So will Nick Reed a former All-American DE for Oregon. Reed Reminds me of Teddy Bruschi and ILB in a 3-4 will be his best position at the next level.

SouthStndJunkie
04-11-2009, 01:29 AM
Interesting stuff to say the least.

1. Gilbert as the top 5 Technique in the draft? What are they smoking?
Gilbert has some major warning red flags like being inconsistent in a weak conference, not being very physical or tough as a DL, not being able to anchor against the run or Double team, and he struggled to beat OT's who will never see the light of day in an NFL camp let alone Real OT's. The guy does have tremendous upside, but you do not call a player with Upside the best 5 technique in the whole draft. Especially, when the 5 tech is a grinder gap control position and the guy is a one gap quickness type player.


I completely agree.

Kaylore
04-11-2009, 10:01 AM
Is there an example of a 3-4 nose tackle under 310 pounds in recent history?

elsid13
04-11-2009, 11:18 AM
Is there an example of a 3-4 nose tackle under 310 pounds in recent history?

Jay Ratliff at 302 pounds starting NT for Dallas.

Mediator12
04-12-2009, 05:58 PM
Is there an example of a 3-4 nose tackle under 310 pounds in recent history?

Kelly Gregg in BAL, Jason Ferguson in MIA, and the aforementioned Jay Ratliff in DAL. Ngata played more NT for BAL this year with Gregg injured, but that has not been his primary position in their defense despite the perception. Heck, they even used him as a rush LB in their nickle sets :welcome:


Personally, I think 310 is the perfect weight for a NT because I want them to be quicker laterally and able to play the counter at the POA. Some guys like Jenkins, Williams, and Rodgers are freakishly quick for 330 lb guys though. However, it does affect there stamina in games and they play in a heavy rotation.

elsid13
04-12-2009, 06:20 PM
Med good call on Gilbert. The NFLN draft crew(Maylock and others) were talking about teams thinking about moving him to LT, because he wasn't nasty enough.

epicSocialism4tw
04-12-2009, 06:49 PM
5. Scott McKillop would make a great 3-4 ILB. So will Nick Reed a former All-American DE for Oregon. Reed Reminds me of Teddy Bruschi and ILB in a 3-4 will be his best position at the next level.

Terrible.

How can anyone think that you know what you are talking about when you dare compare players to The Bruschi?

gyldenlove
04-12-2009, 07:06 PM
Kelly Gregg in BAL, Jason Ferguson in MIA, and the aforementioned Jay Ratliff in DAL. Ngata played more NT for BAL this year with Gregg injured, but that has not been his primary position in their defense despite the perception. Heck, they even used him as a rush LB in their nickle sets :welcome:


Personally, I think 310 is the perfect weight for a NT because I want them to be quicker laterally and able to play the counter at the POA. Some guys like Jenkins, Williams, and Rodgers are freakishly quick for 330 lb guys though. However, it does affect there stamina in games and they play in a heavy rotation.

I like a NT to be in the 315 to 320 area, I want him to be at least as big as the center he will face.

eddie mac
04-12-2009, 09:22 PM
Ratliff is very average NT but a very good 3-4 end yet the pricks that run the Dallas Cowboys seem set on keeping him there. For some reason he cant defend the run at all from the Nose position yet when they move him back to DE he does it very well.

Mediator12
04-12-2009, 09:43 PM
Terrible.

How can anyone think that you know what you are talking about when you dare compare players to The Bruschi?

The master needs a pupil to complete the cycle. Soon, The Bruschi will leave the NFL with his disciple in place. He shall Be Called The Reed.....

Mediator12
04-12-2009, 09:48 PM
Ratliff is very average NT but a very good 3-4 end yet the pricks that run the Dallas Cowboys seem set on keeping him there. For some reason he cant defend the run at all from the Nose position yet when they move him back to DE he does it very well.

Dallas is unique in how they approach the 3-4. They one gap more with their front seven and allow the NT to penetrate rather than play both A-gaps. Most 3-4 Base fronts play two gap along the DL and variable according to coverage from the LB's and Safeties.

What is interesting about Ratliff is he does OK against Double teams, he just can not anchor at the POA. He can get off and split OK, but the guys around him do not fill the gap he does not take very well. I think the Phillips Version of the 3-4 is much more pass rush friendly than run friendly to a NT.

socalorado
04-13-2009, 08:01 AM
interesting list. So Wes is saying that Curry cant or shouldnt play in a 3-4 apparently. Also, no Laurinitus, which i have been saying here forever just doesnt fit the 3-4 scheme, he will get washed out of too many plays.
But no Curry?!?!
Suprised Barwin is as high as he is, notice no Orakpo anywhere? I think that guy could be a huge bust. No Maybin either. Another guy who scares me in the 3-4 at the next level.
I think Cushing is a guy DEN should target. I just thinks hes plain good, and yes, will get better.

Med, whats your take of Dorell Scott?!?!?

Mediator12
04-13-2009, 09:35 AM
I need to make a thread about Scott. I'll break him down as a NT there, but he is the guy no one is talking about that could be a real good if not better option than those 2 at NT. He has a better mentality than either Brace or Raji to play a non-glamour position of NT. In fact, he is the top NT prospect I have on my board because of that. He can play NT in either a 4-3 or a 3-4 and that makes him very valuable in this draft. Very few players with his size, skill, and mentality playing DT coming out.

socalorado
04-13-2009, 09:44 AM
I need to make a thread about Scott. I'll break him down as a NT there, but he is the guy no one is talking about that could be a real good if not better option than those 2 at NT. He has a better mentality than either Brace or Raji to play a non-glamour position of NT. In fact, he is the top NT prospect I have on my board because of that. He can play NT in either a 4-3 or a 3-4 and that makes him very valuable in this draft. Very few players with his size, skill, and mentality playing DT coming out.

See this is what i was thinking a while back. I really only watched a few Clemson games, and i never really focused in on him. I was always either watching the RBs (obviously) or i was watching their secondary. As of then, a safety was a more important factor with DEN, so thats where i was at then. Fun team to watch regardless. But as i looked more and more at NT prospects, his size and weight alone fit the mold, then a few analysts said he had the ability to play both a DT or the coveted NT at the next level, so i just put him in a few mocks to fill a spot, but it seems he really has some serious potential to be a true power NT. This could really be good news for DEN in terms of Brace possibly being gone by #48.

I would love to get your complete overview of him if possible.
Thanks

rugbythug
04-13-2009, 02:57 PM
What about Powell as our NT? I keep coming back to this. He seems like the Right kind of Mentality for the position, Judging from his interviews and Bio.

Elway777
04-13-2009, 09:49 PM
What about Powell as our NT? I keep coming back to this. He seems like the Right kind of Mentality for the position, Judging from his interviews and Bio.
I also read that he is up to 325 pounds. If the Broncos miss out on a Nose tackle in draft then Fields and Powell could do a good job.

Mediator12
04-14-2009, 11:35 AM
I also read that he is up to 325 pounds. If the Broncos miss out on a Nose tackle in draft then Fields and Powell could do a good job.

Where did you hear powell was @ 325? That is a lot of weight to put on in one year, but he has the right mentality and skillset to play NT in the NFL. That would be huge for DEN to get a guy like Powell to be a Rotational NT with Fields.

Thanks Elway777.

Elway777
04-14-2009, 01:03 PM
Where did you hear powell was @ 325? That is a lot of weight to put on in one year, but he has the right mentality and skillset to play NT in the NFL. That would be huge for DEN to get a guy like Powell to be a Rotational NT with Fields.

Thanks Elway777. I read it at Football future message board for the Broncos.

rugbythug
04-14-2009, 02:21 PM
Where did you hear powell was @ 325? That is a lot of weight to put on in one year, but he has the right mentality and skillset to play NT in the NFL. That would be huge for DEN to get a guy like Powell to be a Rotational NT with Fields.

Thanks Elway777.

Depends on what the weight looked like. Not that hard to put on the weight Raji and Brace have hanging about their midsection. I mean I did it in less than a semester when I first started college. And that was with out even trying.

azbroncfan
04-14-2009, 03:26 PM
Is there an example of a 3-4 nose tackle under 310 pounds in recent history?

I'm surprised you didn't know that one of your Zoobie players for the steelers plays effective in place of Hampton.