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TheDave
04-09-2009, 10:41 PM
WR Percy Harvin, Florida (Jr.)
The first player mentioned by all five executives, Harvin is the clear-cut favorite in this year’s draft class to find trouble after receiving a giant payday. He was very competitive at Florida, even battling through a broken bone in his foot that was publicly referred to as a sprained ankle, helping the Gators win two national championships the past three years. The mention of character concerns about Harvin drew outrage from ardent supporters of Gator Nation after PFW’s 2009 Draft Guide was released. Nonetheless, one executive said Harvin would have to slip to the fourth round for him to consider rolling the dice on Harvin's character. Two others said they would not entertain the idea of drafting him at any price. Coachability, a posse of hangers-on, his lack of respect for authority and drug usage made Harvin a unanimous selection to become a repeated problem in the pros.

WR Michael Crabtree, Texas Tech (Soph.-3)
Crabtree may not have a laundry list of arrests, but his ego is abnormally large to the point where he repeatedly demeaned training staff, his work ethic has been described as “marginal at best,” and his intelligence and ability to handle success remain major question marks. One thorough evaluator compared Crabtree’s mental makeup to that of former LSU and Buccaneers 2004 15th overall pick Michael Clayton, who made a big splash in the NFL as a rookie before going on to average 31 catches, 378 yards and a half-TD catch each of the past four years as he lost focus, bought into the hype and stopped working at his craft the way young receivers must do to be great. Crabtree's competitiveness noticeably stands out on tape, and he did play through injury last season. However, when the Red Raiders were getting whipped by better competition (Oklahoma and Mississippi) during the final two games of the season, Crabtree did not finish either game. After he gets a taste of success in the pros, evaluators are not confident he will be able to handle the trappings of the pro game.

ILB Rey Maualuga, USC
Football is clearly very important to him, and he has endearingly been described as a “war daddy” by evaluators, but questions remain about his maturity, accountability, trustworthiness, intelligence and ability to responsibly handle alcohol. His coaches publicly have contended that he has matured greatly, but some of his actions have continued to suggest otherwise. One executive said he had positioned Maualuga just far enough down in the first round so that he would not be considered with the team’s first pick, hoping he would be gone by the time the second pick came around. Another evaluator said he did not envision Maualuga’s position on his team’s draft board being altered based on his character but, when pressed as to whether he would draft Maualuga in the top 10, said the pick would be “too scary.”

CB Vontae Davis, Illinois (Jr.)
Outside of being demoted several times throughout his career, in the spring and in the fall, Davis may not seem like he has a lot of issues on the surface — with no noted arrests or incidents that scream “problem.” However, his team interviews have been received very poorly, questioning his mental instability, lack of maturity and intelligence issues that clearly show up on tape consistently. He was regularly in the coaches’ doghouse, is very difficult to manage, does not respond well to coaching and may never easily blend into a locker room, as he beats to his own drum.

DT B.J. Raji, Boston College
Defensive tackles may need to be held to a different standard, with the modern-day widebody not needed to play as many snaps in the pros as most are asked to play in college, where fewer schools rotate their defensive linemen the way NFL teams tend to do. In a league where extra mass is rewarded and girth is a big plus defending the run, not all teams even penalize their linemen for not being able to control their weight. However, Raji’s work habits, intelligence and overall maturity, including at least one verified failed drug test, were distractions in college, especially early on, and several executives said they would not be willing to invest a first-round pick in a player with so many questions. Among the aforementioned five players with concerns, however, Raji drew the least criticism because of the improved maturity he showed as a senior after a clerical error cost him his junior season.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2009/wwhi040909.htm

SouthStndJunkie
04-09-2009, 10:51 PM
Percy Harvin sounds like a real piece of work.

Popps
04-09-2009, 11:21 PM
Very interesting, Dave.

Taco brought up an interesting theory that this draft may just not be all that deep, and a bit of a tease, overall. I think that's an interesting concept. Rohirrim countered that you just take "football guys," in a draft like this, which I also like.

I'm starting to lean towards one of USC's "other" LBs as a good option, personally. I also love what I see of the kid from Florida St. if he slips to 12 for us.

I think down at 20, we're going to just be able to take the best athlete available, hopefully on defense and hopefully not a CB.

I think you play it safe in this draft. Take a guy you are sure is a B player as opposed to taking huge risk to knock it out of the park with an A-level guy.

Devil's advocate, though... if Maulaluga slides down to #20, I will admit that it'll be tempting to root for us to pick him. He's absolutely explosive out there.

TheDave
04-09-2009, 11:29 PM
Very interesting, Dave.

Taco brought up an interesting theory that this draft may just not be all that deep, and a bit of a tease, overall. I think that's an interesting concept. Rohirrim countered that you just take "football guys," in a draft like this, which I also like.

I'm starting to lean towards one of USC's "other" LBs as a good option, personally. I also love what I see of the kid from Florida St. if he slips to 12 for us.

I think down at 20, we're going to just be able to take the best athlete available, hopefully on defense and hopefully not a CB.

I think you play it safe in this draft. Take a guy you are sure is a B player as opposed to taking huge risk to knock it out of the park with an A-level guy.

Devil's advocate, though... if Maulaluga slides down to #20, I will admit that it'll be tempting to root for us to pick him. He's absolutely explosive out there.

As for #12 you take tyson Jackson and be thankful that he was there... Fits a need and seems to be the type of tough/big/strong football player that McKidd has spoken about. After that it's BPA all the way to the end.

As far as the draft is concerned... I disagree about the talent available. This draft simply doesn't have the blue chip top 5-10 that we usually see. On the other hand I think the talent is fairly consistent through the first 2 - 3 rounds.

We should have no problem finding players that will help improve our team.

Broncojef
04-09-2009, 11:30 PM
Very interesting, Dave.

Taco brought up an interesting theory that this draft may just not be all that deep, and a bit of a tease, overall. I think that's an interesting concept. Rohirrim countered that you just take "football guys," in a draft like this, which I also like.

I'm starting to lean towards one of USC's "other" LBs as a good option, personally. I also love what I see of the kid from Florida St. if he slips to 12 for us.

I think down at 20, we're going to just be able to take the best athlete available, hopefully on defense and hopefully not a CB.

I think you play it safe in this draft. Take a guy you are sure is a B player as opposed to taking huge risk to knock it out of the park with an A-level guy.

Devil's advocate, though... if Maulaluga slides down to #20, I will admit that it'll be tempting to root for us to pick him. He's absolutely explosive out there.

I'd take Maualuga at 18 in a heartbeat...I'm torn whether we take him at 12 actually. I really want Jackson and Maualuga. I miss having the leader with a two ton heart in the middle ever since Big Al left.

TheDave
04-09-2009, 11:32 PM
I'd take Maualuga at 18 in a heartbeat...I'm torn whether we take him at 12 actually. I really want Jackson and Maualuga. I miss having the leader with a two ton heart in the middle ever since Big Al left.

The only thing I have against Maualuga is that Jasper Brinkley seems to be a VERY similiar player that will be available in round 3.

OrangeRising
04-09-2009, 11:33 PM
I only hope enough team GMs take to heart this subjective and somewhat arbitrary evaluation so that Raji can fall to #12.

He's worth the gamble, and at a position Denver desperately needs.

Popps
04-09-2009, 11:39 PM
I'd take Maualuga at 18 in a heartbeat...I'm torn whether we take him at 12 actually. I really want Jackson and Maualuga. I miss having the leader with a two ton heart in the middle ever since Big Al left.

Sorry... 18, I meant.

I hate to take ANY major risks, at this point, especially because I think the real bargains will be in the late 1st round. But, he's got rare ability. You just have to wonder with a new coach, one big controversy and one with Marshall outstanding, if he wants to take on any character risks at this point.

I admit, it's tempting. But, I highly doubt it happens.

Doggcow
04-09-2009, 11:41 PM
No Stafford or Sanchez? Poor article IMO, they are far from bustproof.

DHallblows
04-09-2009, 11:49 PM
The only thing I have against Maualuga is that Jasper Brinkley seems to be a VERY similiar player that will be available in round 3.

Let's just get them both! :thumbs:

DBBBSBS
04-09-2009, 11:51 PM
I want them to give up 12 to philly, nyg, bal or tenn and move back and collect a second rounder as well. I am sure atleast 3 of those teams need WR's/OL and will come up. I would be happy with us taking tyson jackson or brain cushing at 18, ron brace, Laurinites, Ayers and ... with the picks we trade back. we will have more bodies and even if we hit on 2 or 3 , this draft will be successful. I meant 2 or 3 in the first few rounds. And few others who can play for a few years as starters/depth. If overall we come out with 4 or 5 impact players.. it is a great draft for this new staff

DBBBSBS
04-09-2009, 11:52 PM
No Stafford or Sanchez? Poor article IMO, they are far from bustproof.

it is not about boom or bust. it is about character and ???'s related to that.

spdirty
04-10-2009, 12:06 AM
Id like to take a chance on Raji at 12 and Maualuga at 18.

baja
04-10-2009, 12:12 AM
I bet we don't take Raji even if he falls to 12.

24champ
04-10-2009, 12:21 AM
No Stafford or Sanchez? Poor article IMO, they are far from bustproof.

Sanchez has bust written all over him.

DBBBSBS
04-10-2009, 12:23 AM
All of a sudden with all these rumors brace in round - 2 sounds like a better option than raji. Though the playing level wont be the same.. atleast we need not keep checking who is in roger's office time and again.

Rey.. i dont care. I would rather have cushing than ray with all this character issues. but my guess is cushing will be taken at 15 by houston

meangene
04-10-2009, 03:33 AM
Percy Harvin sounds like a real piece of work.

Harvin is from my area in Virginia. Here is part of his high school history:

However, he decided to leave his basketball team when his coach informed him that he could not be protected from opponents. Apparently, players on other teams were set out to hurt Percy during a game.

Harvin was suspended for one football game for unsportsmanlike conduct during his junior year, and then was suspended for the final two games of his senior year for making contact with a referee and for inappropriate language. Harvin was later barred by the Virginia High School League from participating in any high school sporting events.

PUNK!

dreasher54
04-10-2009, 05:46 AM
I'd take Maualuga at 18 in a heartbeat...I'm torn whether we take him at 12 actually. I really want Jackson and Maualuga. I miss having the leader with a two ton heart in the middle ever since Big Al left.

I was a little to young when Al left. Why did we let him or did he retire

baja
04-10-2009, 07:20 AM
I was a little to young when Al left. Why did we let him or did he retire

How young are you Al last played on 06.

POSTED: 09/11/2008 12:30:00 AM MDT

Former middle linebacker Al Wilson officially retired from the NFL on Wednesday, more than 18 months after he played his last down for the Broncos.

Wilson, the Broncos' first-round draft pick out of Tennessee in 1999, spent his entire eight-year NFL career in Denver, becoming a five-time Pro Bowler and a favorite among fans and teammates.

"A lot of guys have a hard time leading, but it was just natural for him from the first day he came," coach Mike Shanahan said. "People would gravitate to him."

Wilson suffered a neck injury on Dec. 3, 2006, and had to be carted off the field on a stretcher. He returned to play the rest of the season but has not played since. Wilson announced his retirement on the website jocklife.com.

"He was a great player and a great friend," linebacker D.J. Williams said. "It's his decision, and if he feels like it is time to walk away from the game, that's what he should do."

Wilson was a defensive captain for the Broncos and finished his career with 712 tackles, 21 1/2 sacks and five interceptions.

Williams, who lined up beside Wilson for three years, is now one of the team's defensive captains, and it was Wilson who taught him to be a leader.

"Al loved the game. Not only that, he loved his teammates. Sometimes that's bigger than the game, just the camaraderie, just being around the fellas in the locker room," Williams said. "For me, coming in as a rookie and you don't know what it's about being in the NFL, being a professional, I just kind of followed him around and listened to things he said."

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10431874?source=rss

Rohirrim
04-10-2009, 07:29 AM
Sanchez has bust written all over him.

You need to watch film of Sanchez, in that case. I wouldn't mind him here, but I don't think this is the year for the Broncos to go shopping for any more QBs. Sanchez is totally committed to the game. He's a film room addict and has gotten better every year of the four years he played at SC. He'll be good somewhere.

BroncoInferno
04-10-2009, 07:50 AM
You need to watch film of Sanchez, in that case. I wouldn't mind him here, but I don't think this is the year for the Broncos to go shopping for any more QBs. Sanchez is totally committed to the game. He's a film room addict and has gotten better every year of the four years he played at SC. He'll be good somewhere.

I wouldn't touch an underclassmen QB with a ten foot pole. In the last 15 drafts, 11 of them have gone in the 1st round. Of that group, only Roethlisberger and maybe Aaron Rodgers (nice season last year but jury still out) could be considered successes.

Gcver2ver3
04-10-2009, 07:58 AM
my top 5 riskiest picks

1. Matthew Stafford
2. Conner Barwin (if taken in the 1st round)
3. Daruis Heyward Bay
4. Percy Harvin
5. Aaron Maybin


some honorable mentions are Sanchez, Cushing & Matthews, Freeman, & Crabtree...

i think all of the 1st round grade WRs & QBs are risky this year...

i'm also leary of the USC LBs...they may be overhyped....Rey is a good one to me because you know what you get...a big hitting run stopper...but Cushing/Matthews are being tabbed as these "do everything LBs" and i don't buy it....i also wouldn't be surprised if they are on steroids...

Hotrod
04-10-2009, 08:01 AM
No Stafford or Sanchez? Poor article IMO, they are far from bustproof.

my first thought exactly.

Gcver2ver3
04-10-2009, 08:06 AM
No Stafford or Sanchez? Poor article IMO, they are far from bustproof.

yea i agree...

the article seems to only address character issues...

they should have looked at all aspects, not just character...


i mean, Rey Maluaga is a risk because he can't hold his liquor?...

c'mon....

skpac1001
04-10-2009, 08:08 AM
I wouldn't touch an underclassmen QB with a ten foot pole. In the last 15 drafts, 11 of them have gone in the 1st round. Of that group, only Roethlisberger and maybe Aaron Rodgers (nice season last year but jury still out) could be considered successes.

I wouldn't draft by generalities. Sanchez is much more ready for the NFL then Stafford in my opinion.

BroncoInferno
04-10-2009, 08:13 AM
I wouldn't draft by generalities.

I don't know man. 1.5 successes out of 11 suggest to me that there really is a major correlation between success and staying all four years in college.

Sanchez is much more ready for the NFL then Stafford in my opinion.

Maybe so. I think we'd be better served to pass on a QB this season, see what we have in Orton/Simms, then reevaluate the position next year when there will be more attractive options from the incoming senior class of QBs.

Drek
04-10-2009, 08:15 AM
Taco brought up an interesting theory that this draft may just not be all that deep, and a bit of a tease, overall. I think that's an interesting concept. Rohirrim countered that you just take "football guys," in a draft like this, which I also like.

Its shallow at the top and at the very back end, but the mid-1st through until the early 4th is good.

I only see three guys I'd want to take in the top 10 (Monroe, J.Smith, and Curry). #12 could pan out well as a result since teams could very well take some surprises and guys we didn't expect could come sliding down. But my ideal would be flipping #12 for a mid-1st and a 2nd or 3rd (whatever we could get).

I'd then like for us to follow that up by trading #18 for a '10 first and a '09 2nd.

Ideal world we'd have one first in the 15-25 range, our 2nd at #48, an additional mid-round 2nd, a late 2nd/early 3rd, our own 3rd, and the Bear's 3rd. It'd also give us three firsts for next year's class. Just take sound football players with our 6 top 100 picks this year, establish the backbone and identity of the team under the new regime, and break out the heavy firepower in next year's draft when we have fewer holes to fill and a better idea what kind of player we want to fill them with.

Tombstone RJ
04-10-2009, 08:19 AM
No Stafford or Sanchez? Poor article IMO, they are far from bustproof.

Eh, this article is talking about character issues, not playing ability.

Broncojef
04-10-2009, 08:29 AM
The only thing I have against Maualuga is that Jasper Brinkley seems to be a VERY similiar player that will be available in round 3.

Guess I don't know alot about Jasper. I watched Maualuga play and was always impressed with his game. I thought all last year damn I wish he were available when we pick. Now that it looks like we got a shot at him draftniks and combine freaks are talking crap about him. I'm not a real big X's and O's guy, I don't evaluate talent but Maualuga is fun to watch and plays with a passion...two huge qualities missing from our Defense this last year (outside Woodyard and Larsen). We need some foundation stones to lay our defense on at some point, I just hope we find one for the front seven sometime soon, its been a long long time.

Broncojef
04-10-2009, 08:34 AM
How young are you Al last played on 06.

POSTED: 09/11/2008 12:30:00 AM MDT

Former middle linebacker Al Wilson officially retired from the NFL on Wednesday, more than 18 months after he played his last down for the Broncos.

Wilson, the Broncos' first-round draft pick out of Tennessee in 1999, spent his entire eight-year NFL career in Denver, becoming a five-time Pro Bowler and a favorite among fans and teammates.

"A lot of guys have a hard time leading, but it was just natural for him from the first day he came," coach Mike Shanahan said. "People would gravitate to him."

Wilson suffered a neck injury on Dec. 3, 2006, and had to be carted off the field on a stretcher. He returned to play the rest of the season but has not played since. Wilson announced his retirement on the website jocklife.com.

"He was a great player and a great friend," linebacker D.J. Williams said. "It's his decision, and if he feels like it is time to walk away from the game, that's what he should do."

Wilson was a defensive captain for the Broncos and finished his career with 712 tackles, 21 1/2 sacks and five interceptions.

Williams, who lined up beside Wilson for three years, is now one of the team's defensive captains, and it was Wilson who taught him to be a leader.

"Al loved the game. Not only that, he loved his teammates. Sometimes that's bigger than the game, just the camaraderie, just being around the fellas in the locker room," Williams said. "For me, coming in as a rookie and you don't know what it's about being in the NFL, being a professional, I just kind of followed him around and listened to things he said."

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10431874?source=rss

God do I miss Al!! I really hope we find a captain like him again soon.

broncofan7
04-10-2009, 08:34 AM
Harvin is from my area in Virginia. Here is part of his high school history:

However, he decided to leave his basketball team when his coach informed him that he could not be protected from opponents. Apparently, players on other teams were set out to hurt Percy during a game.

Harvin was suspended for one football game for unsportsmanlike conduct during his junior year, and then was suspended for the final two games of his senior year for making contact with a referee and for inappropriate language. Harvin was later barred by the Virginia High School League from participating in any high school sporting events.

PUNK!

Yeah, could be worse. At least he didn't take part in a mob beating of people in a bowling alley, ala Allen Iverson. ;)

http://www.nbacriminals.com/

meangene
04-10-2009, 08:49 AM
Yeah, could be worse. At least he didn't take part in a mob beating of people in a bowling alley, ala Allen Iverson. ;)

http://www.nbacriminals.com/

Throw Vick in the mix and the 757 area code gets a bad rap!

no-pseudo-fan
04-10-2009, 09:52 AM
All I need to know is that the guy is a Warrior that loves the game of football. Maturity is gained with age, but true love for the game isn't.

vancejohnson82
04-10-2009, 09:53 AM
Vontae Davis reminds me of DeAngelo Hall....

Thats not a compliment

Rohirrim
04-10-2009, 10:02 AM
Guess I don't know alot about Jasper. I watched Maualuga play and was always impressed with his game. I thought all last year damn I wish he were available when we pick. Now that it looks like we got a shot at him draftniks and combine freaks are talking crap about him. I'm not a real big X's and O's guy, I don't evaluate talent but Maualuga is fun to watch and plays with a passion...two huge qualities missing from our Defense this last year (outside Woodyard and Larsen). We need some foundation stones to lay our defense on at some point, I just hope we find one for the front seven sometime soon, its been a long long time.

Rey does something the old school ILBs used to do; He scares people. If you watch enough film of him playing you'll see it over and over again. I saw one clip where Rey rushes in and starts to leap the FB (who tried to chop him) and the QB just throws the ball out of the EZ. Why? He had time to move. He had plenty of space to his right to take off and look for a dump off receiver. He threw it because Rey made him **** his pants. Every D needs that guy. He likes to drink? Give him cab vouchers. ;D

vancejohnson82
04-10-2009, 10:06 AM
MeanGene,

Iverson was involved in a fight at a bowling alley because a pack of hillbilly white boys tossed him and his buddies out calling them "N******s"

it was all in the police report and although fighting doesnt solve anything its hard for a 17 year old kid to walk away from that...

no-pseudo-fan
04-10-2009, 10:07 AM
Rey does something the old school ILBs used to do; He scares people. If you watch enough film of him playing you'll see it over and over again. I saw one clip where Rey rushes in and starts to leap the FB (who tried to chop him) and the QB just throws the ball out of the EZ. Why? He had time to move. He had plenty of space to his right to take off and look for a dump off receiver. He threw it because Rey made him **** his pants. Every D needs that guy. He likes to drink? Give him cab vouchers. ;D

That's what I am talking about. Rey scares people. He scares WR coming over the middle. He scares RB's looking for an inside hole, or thinking about cutting back an outside run. I will drive him to and from the parties if we draft him.:afro:

~Crash~
04-10-2009, 10:15 AM
Very interesting, Dave.

Taco brought up an interesting theory that this draft may just not be all that deep, and a bit of a tease, overall. I think that's an interesting concept. Rohirrim countered that you just take "football guys," in a draft like this, which I also like.

I'm starting to lean towards one of USC's "other" LBs as a good option, personally. I also love what I see of the kid from Florida St. if he slips to 12 for us.

I think down at 20, we're going to just be able to take the best athlete available, hopefully on defense and hopefully not a CB.

I think you play it safe in this draft. Take a guy you are sure is a B player as opposed to taking huge risk to knock it out of the park with an A-level guy.

Devil's advocate, though... if Maulaluga slides down to #20, I will admit that it'll be tempting to root for us to pick him. He's absolutely explosive out there.


then you would be looking at the wrong LBers !:thumbsup: if you are wanting are real football player hit the link I want this guy at pick #18

Clint Sintim
# 51
LB - LB

Height: 6-3 Weight: 254

Senior

High School/Previous College
Gar-Field H.S.
Previous Experience
3L
Hometown
Woodbridge, Va.




http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=88799&SPID=10606&DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=1133496&Q_SEASON=2008

at pick #12 I want Malcolm Jenkins and make him a FS !:thumbsup:
# 2
Cornerback - CB
Height: 6' 1" Weight: 201
Senior


http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=87746&SPID=10408&DB_OEM_ID=17300&ATCLID=1059260&Q_SEASON=2008

~Crash~
04-10-2009, 10:18 AM
by the way those guys are player first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:afro:

~Crash~
04-10-2009, 10:19 AM
both would start also .

and play all 3 downs

400HZ
04-10-2009, 10:32 AM
Guess I don't know alot about Jasper. I watched Maualuga play and was always impressed with his game. I thought all last year damn I wish he were available when we pick. Now that it looks like we got a shot at him draftniks and combine freaks are talking crap about him. I'm not a real big X's and O's guy, I don't evaluate talent but Maualuga is fun to watch and plays with a passion...two huge qualities missing from our Defense this last year (outside Woodyard and Larsen). We need some foundation stones to lay our defense on at some point, I just hope we find one for the front seven sometime soon, its been a long long time.

Jasper Brinkley is Maualuga minus the hype.

Cool Breeze
04-10-2009, 10:42 AM
Its shallow at the top and at the very back end, but the mid-1st through until the early 4th is good.

I only see three guys I'd want to take in the top 10 (Monroe, J.Smith, and Curry). #12 could pan out well as a result since teams could very well take some surprises and guys we didn't expect could come sliding down. But my ideal would be flipping #12 for a mid-1st and a 2nd or 3rd (whatever we could get).

I'd then like for us to follow that up by trading #18 for a '10 first and a '09 2nd.

Ideal world we'd have one first in the 15-25 range, our 2nd at #48, an additional mid-round 2nd, a late 2nd/early 3rd, our own 3rd, and the Bear's 3rd. It'd also give us three firsts for next year's class. Just take sound football players with our 6 top 100 picks this year, establish the backbone and identity of the team under the new regime, and break out the heavy firepower in next year's draft when we have fewer holes to fill and a better idea what kind of player we want to fill them with.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!! ^5

worm
04-10-2009, 10:49 AM
Vontae Davis reminds me of DeAngelo Hall....

Thats not a compliment

Vontae Davis has bust written all over him. I see him dropping out of the 1st. Amazing considering his athletic ability.

~Crash~
04-10-2009, 10:51 AM
Jasper Brinkley is Maualuga minus the hype.

Brinkley is also in better shape but I think Rey will play way more years .

Rohirrim
04-10-2009, 10:58 AM
Vontae Davis has bust written all over him. I see him dropping out of the 1st. Amazing considering his athletic ability.

In all the years I've been watching the draft, I think Vontae is the first guy I've read about whose personality was described as "weird."

400HZ
04-10-2009, 11:00 AM
Brinkley is also in better shape but I think Rey will play way more years .

The only knock on Brinkley is that sometimes he jacks guys so hard that he ****s himself up. :rofl:

Broncoman13
04-10-2009, 11:17 AM
I agree with Tyson Jackson. Nothing flashy with him but as many have suggested, he is a guy that will play three downs for the next several years and improve the entire defense. Basically, he is a guy that will do the dirty work and help the guys behind him and next to him perform at higher levels. To me, that's exactly why we should consider him at #12.

I wasn't aware of Percy Harvin's issues. I wonder how much of that is "speculation". I've watched a lot of UF football since Urb meyer arrived and I've not heard a negative word one about Percy Harvin. The only thing that scares me about him at this point is his ability to grasp our offense and excel. Wes Welker says you gotta have a brain, so I'd prefer Maclin over the entire group of receivers this year. But I still wouldn't mind Harvin at #18.

Best case scenario right now...

Tyson Jackson at 12 and Clay Mathews Jr/Rey Maualuga/Brian Cushing(in that order) at 18.

As for #12 you take tyson Jackson and be thankful that he was there... Fits a need and seems to be the type of tough/big/strong football player that McKidd has spoken about. After that it's BPA all the way to the end.

As far as the draft is concerned... I disagree about the talent available. This draft simply doesn't have the blue chip top 5-10 that we usually see. On the other hand I think the talent is fairly consistent through the first 2 - 3 rounds.

We should have no problem finding players that will help improve our team.

Mogulseeker
04-10-2009, 11:21 AM
Freeman is a risk as well as Raji, but I think we should go for Raji.

Pony Boy
04-10-2009, 11:32 AM
yea i agree...

the article seems to only address character issues...

they should have looked at all aspects, not just character...


i mean, Rey Maluaga is a risk because he can't hold his liquor?...

c'mon....

It's a roll of the dice with any of these guys.. Give them a couple of million signing bonus cash in their pockets and the keys to a new Bentley and it's a recipe for disaster. I'm just glad we have choices!

meangene
04-10-2009, 12:03 PM
MeanGene,

Iverson was involved in a fight at a bowling alley because a pack of hillbilly white boys tossed him and his buddies out calling them "N******s"

it was all in the police report and although fighting doesnt solve anything its hard for a 17 year old kid to walk away from that...

That's one version of it. I watched the video from the bowling alley and followed the trial pretty closely. He was found guilty and sentenced to prison. Later, he was pardoned by the governor and the trial judge received an appointment to an appellate level bench - all very political.

Actually, I didn't bring up the Iverson incident. My point in responding to the comment about him was that we have had a few athletes from around here get into off-the-field issues - Harvin, DeAngelo Hall, Iverson, Burress, both Vicks, etc. - and we get a bit of a bad rap because of all the publicity when we have a lot of great athletes from here as well who don't get in trouble - Alonzo Mourning, Bruce Smith, etc.

bombquixote
04-10-2009, 02:54 PM
Sanchez has bust written all over him.

Like what, specifically?

And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating we take him. I want us to draft D, D, and more D. But people on this board continually write Sanchez off, and nobody gets specific as to why. So please, edify me.

~Crash~
04-10-2009, 04:17 PM
Like what, specifically?

And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating we take him. I want us to draft D, D, and more D. But people on this board continually write Sanchez off, and nobody gets specific as to why. So please, edify me.

how many under class QB's have made it in the NFL? that said I like him and if he were to make it to 12 sure.

bombquixote
04-10-2009, 04:20 PM
how many under class QB's have mabe it in the NFL? that said I like him and if he were to make it to 12 sure.

I don't know. But how many QBs have made it in the NFL, underclassmen or not?

24champ
04-10-2009, 04:21 PM
Like what, specifically?

And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating we take him. I want us to draft D, D, and more D. But people on this board continually write Sanchez off, and nobody gets specific as to why. So please, edify me.

First of all, my definition of a bust, is a player being taken with a high pick and not living up to those expectations ..specifically for Sanchez who will be a first round QB and first round QBs have high expectations. I don't believe Sanchez will live up to the hype, and that's what April is all about right now...hype.


Facts tell me that he is an underclassman with ONE YEAR OF STARTING EXPERIENCE. The success rate for underclassmen QBs are very low...couple that with a QB with only ONE year of experience in the PAC-10, makes the success rate extremely low. Then there is the fact he is short for a QB, doesn't throw great, injury concerns. It adds up and you are taking on a real project here. Sure he has talent, a lot of QBs are but it will take time and IMO he is not worth a first round pick.

The lack of talent of this year's draft is why Sanchez came out in the first place because he saw his chance to make some big money. It's telling to me that Pete Carrol told the media that Sanchez is making a mistake...

"We don't see this decision the same. ... Mark is going against the grain on this decision. He knows that. He knows that coming out early is a tremendous challenge for a quarterback. And the statistics don't back up that it's easy to be successful the way he's going about it. We know that, he knows that. ... I don't agree with the assessment of the decision."

Rarely does a CFB coach come out and say this. Usually they suck it up and say they are happy for so and so and the family and leave it at that.


Better option for the Broncos would be to get a QB in the later rounds. One who will be put in the same situation as Sanchez (by being backup learning the system for a few years etc.) would be if picked at 12/18 and will be cheaper and can be groomed under McDaniels.

At the same time see what we have in Orton/Simms. There won't be high expectations for these QBs, but it will be different for Sanchez because he holds a first round tag on him and fans certainly won't be patient to see him play.

BroncoInferno
04-10-2009, 04:21 PM
how many under class QB's have mabe it in the NFL?

Mayock pointed out the other day that in the last 15 drafts, 11 underclassmen have gone in the 1st round. Of that group, only Roethlisberger and maybe Aaron Rodgers (jury still out) could be considered successes. That's pretty hideous. I would not go anywhere near an underclassmen QB.

bombquixote
04-10-2009, 04:50 PM
First of all, my definition of a bust, is a player being taken with a high pick and not living up to those expectations ..specifically for Sanchez who will be a first round QB and first round QBs have high expectations. I don't believe Sanchez will live up to the hype, and that's what April is all about right now...hype.


Facts tell me that he is an underclassman with ONE YEAR OF STARTING EXPERIENCE. The success rate for underclassmen QBs are very low...couple that with a QB with only ONE year of experience in the PAC-10, makes the success rate extremely low. Then there is the fact he is short for a QB, doesn't throw great, injury concerns. It adds up and you are taking on a real project here. Sure he has talent, a lot of QBs are but it will take time and IMO he is not worth a first round pick.

The lack of talent of this year's draft is why Sanchez came out in the first place because he saw his chance to make some big money. It's telling to me that Pete Carrol told the media that Sanchez is making a mistake...

"We don't see this decision the same. ... Mark is going against the grain on this decision. He knows that. He knows that coming out early is a tremendous challenge for a quarterback. And the statistics don't back up that it's easy to be successful the way he's going about it. We know that, he knows that. ... I don't agree with the assessment of the decision."

Rarely does a CFB coach come out and say this. Usually they suck it up and say they are happy for so and so and the family and leave it at that.


Better option for the Broncos would be to get a QB in the later rounds. One who will be put in the same situation as Sanchez (by being backup learning the system for a few years etc.) would be if picked at 12/18 and will be cheaper and can be groomed under McDaniels.

At the same time see what we have in Orton/Simms. There won't be high expectations for these QBs, but it will be different for Sanchez because he holds a first round tag on him and fans certainly won't be patient to see him play.

Great specifics. That's what I'm talking about. Thanks.

As far as taking a QB, I'm with you on seeing what we have in Orton/Simms. Everything I've read indicates that next year's QB class is WAY better than this year's, so if Orton/Simms doesn't pan out, or only pans out as a stopgap, then next years is the year to draft a QB. If we need to do that, I say draft a QB high, get a franchise player. But all of our high picks this year should be for defense, defense, defense.

skpac1001
04-10-2009, 05:22 PM
You know, the statistician (Dave Lewin) who originally published the article that called attention to the dangers of taking a junior qb had other nuggets of wisdom to drop. For example, Brohm is the best franchise qb in the draft, Matt Ryan isn't worth a first round pick, Flacco isn't worth a first day pick. Any GM who makes his decisions based on historical statistics rather then experienced evaluation of key individual skills and personalities of each player is taking bigger risks, not smaller ones.

El Minion
04-10-2009, 06:12 PM
Like what, specifically?

And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating we take him. I want us to draft D, D, and more D. But people on this board continually write Sanchez off, and nobody gets specific as to why. So please, edify me.

Draft '09: The Quarterbacks (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/column.aspx?sport=NFL&columnid=60&articleid=32164)

You may have thought last year's quarterback crop was weak. Not only is the 2009 class littered with ho-hum seniors, its best prospects are underclassmen. Save Ben Roethlisberger, a fourth-year junior who made 38 college starts and had already graduated from Miami of Ohio when he declared for the 2004 draft, no early-entrant quarterback has fully panned out since Commissioner Paul Tagliabue allowed sub-seniors to turn pro in 1990.

The most notorious first-round busts of the past two decades are underclassman quarterbacks: Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Rex Grossman, Todd Marinovich, Andre Ware, Tommy Maddox, Rick Mirer, and Heath Shuler. Fellow early entrants Vince Young, Byron Leftwich, and Michael Vick are on the borderline of "bust" status.

Along similar lines, Football Outsiders statistician David Lewin discovered three years ago that college starts and completion rate -- a direct indication of accuracy -- are the two most telling predictors of NFL quarterback success. Lewin, who's also worked as a statistical consultant in the NBA, has had his QBs hypothesis plugged by countless media members, including NFL.com's Gil Brandt and ESPN's Todd McShay. Even Pete Carroll hinted at it when trying to convince Mark Sanchez to stay in school. Lewin's theory has become a widely accepted reference in QB evaluation.

Here is a link to the original quarterback projection article (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2006/college-quarterbacks-through-prism-statistics). Lewin premises that because QBs with the most starts are seen more by scouts, those scouts naturally make a more sound evaluation. Some are thrown off by physical prowess (see Kyle Boller, Akili Smith, JaMarcus Russell), but the ultimate test of an elite quarterback is accuracy. If a QB is drafted high, he will likely already possess the physical traits to succeed. If he is not accurate, however, he is far more likely to fail.

I interviewed Lewin for this column and have included summarized commentary from our conversation for each quarterback in the top 15.

1. Mark Sanchez, Southern Cal

Height/Weight: 6'3/225
College Experience: Fourth-year junior
Projected 40: 4.70
Comparison: Aaron Rodgers
2008 Stats: 241-of-366 (65.8%), 3,207 Yds, 34 Tds, 10 Ints, 3 Rush Tds

Positives: This class is not laden with pro-ready QBs, but of those eligible Sanchez most closely resembles an NFL signal caller. He took the vast majority of his snaps from center in a pro-style offense, tore apart elite college defenses, and often stood out as the best player on the field. Sanchez is highly elusive in the pocket, throws exceptionally well on the run, and took only 17 sacks in 13 games as a junior behind an offensive line that started four underclassmen, including three sophomores. His arm strength is close to ideal and he delivers the football quickly. Sanchez is a leader, outwardly competitive, and doesn't ruffle under pressure. He has the physical makeup of a franchise QB.

Negatives: Sanchez started 16 college games, a startlingly low number. He did not beat out John David Booty, a fringe NFL player, for a starting job in 2006 or 2007. Sanchez was temporarily suspended from USC for a sexual assault accusation in April 2006. Charges were later dropped. Sanchez went against coach Carroll's recommendation to stay in school another year. Carroll has countless ties to pro teams and his disapproval reflects poorly on Sanchez.

Lewin on Sanchez: It's difficult to doubt Sanchez's ability to be a big-time QB despite his low starts total. His body of work is excellent and he demonstrated accuracy as a junior. Sanchez's production in the Steve Sarkisian system is clearly superior to Booty's. However, low-start guys have the most to gain from sitting early in their careers. Sanchez needs to be in a situation like Matt Cassel or Aaron Rodgers. If he has to play right away, there is a strong chance Sanchez will fail. Seattle at No. 4 would be a good fit. The Seahawks could start Matt Hasselbeck for 2-3 more seasons while Sanchez prepares.

Verdict: Teams that need immediate help (Detroit, Tampa, Minnesota) may shy from Sanchez because they know the long odds raw passers face. But Sanchez could be a gem for a team that can groom him (Tennessee, Chicago, Jets, Buffalo, San Francisco). Sanchez is unlikely to be ready before 2010, but his skill set smacks of star potential. Sanchez should be comfortable with an extended waiting period because he's already spent two years behind Booty and one behind Matt Leinart.

2. Josh Freeman, Kansas State

Height/Weight: 6'6/250
College Experience: Third-year junior
Projected 40: 4.68
Comparison: More athletic Jason Campbell
2008 Stats: 224-of-382 (58.6%), 2,945 Yds, 20 Tds, 8 Ints, 3.8 YPC, 14 Rush Tds

Positives: Freeman is physically stronger than any QB in the draft and it translates to the field. His arm power is superior to Sanchez and Matthew Stafford's, and Freeman is extremely difficult to bring down. Playing behind an offensive line that was devoid of pro prospects and started a 6'3 left tackle, Freeman took only 15 sacks in 2008. It led to increased experience throwing on the run, although his completion rate fell from 63.3% to 58.6%. Freeman can outrun most defensive linemen and linebackers and will be a legitimate threat for positive rushing yards at the next level. K-State's offense used spread concepts, but Freeman spent plenty of time under center and the learning curve shouldn't be steep.

Negatives: Freeman exhibits inconsistent accuracy outside the pocket and his touch on short-to-intermediate throws needs work. While he developed into a superb decision maker by his junior year, Freeman played out of control at times early in his career. He also faced loosy-goosy Big 12 defenses and needs time to adjust to NFL game speed. As an underclassman, most areas of Freeman's game need touch-up, including his footwork and defensive recognition.

Lewin on Freeman: Freeman is big, mobile, and has a highly impressive arm. The talent surrounding him was incredibly poor last season; Kansas State's top runner averaged only 3.5 yards per carry. Freeman was second on the team in rushing. You can present the Joe Flacco argument for Freeman as a big-time talent with a big-time arm for whom it could all come together in the right situation. Having posted superior numbers with a worse supporting cast against a pretty tough schedule, Freeman is a better prospect than Matthew Stafford.

Verdict: Like any underclassman QB, Freeman needs to sit the bench for at least one year. He would've benefited immeasurably from a senior season, assuming his awful line didn't get him hurt. Freeman is not ready to play, but his ceiling is higher than any quarterback that will be taken in April. That upside makes Freeman worth drafting in the second round, ideally by a team with a starter who can hold down the fort for 1-2 seasons.

3. Matthew Stafford, Georgia

Height/Weight: 6'3/228
College Experience: Third-year junior
Projected 40: 4.78
Comparison: Kyle Boller
2008 Stats: 235-of-383 (61.4%), 3,459 Yds, 25 Tds, 10 Ints, 1 Rush Td

Positives: Stafford has as many college starts (34) as a senior who started three years. Georgia won all three bowl games Stafford played in and he comes from a balanced, pro-style offense. Stafford faced the best defenses D-I can offer playing in the SEC. He won't be a plus-yardage running threat in the pros, but is a gifted athlete (Stafford can dunk a basketball) and a dangerous on-the-run passer. Stafford's arm strength is ideal and he flashes the ability to make all the throws. He is a vocal leader, releases the football quickly, and has good pocket presence.

Negatives: Elite arm strength has covered up Stafford's flaws. He throws off his back foot often and is considered raw in his reads. Stafford tended to go in the tank for long stretches at Georgia and his teams underachieved (e.g. the Dogs were D-I's consensus top team entering 2008 but finished 13th). Stafford is prone to head-scratching under and overthrows. He was surrounded by NFL talent (Knowshon Moreno, Mohamed Massaquoi, Thomas Brown, Kregg Lumpkin, Danny Ware, Martrez Milner) in college, but never put up outstanding numbers.

Lewin on Stafford: Completing passes is the fundamental thing quarterbacks should do and Stafford is in the red-flag area with a 56.9 career completion rate. NFL starters must complete 60% of their throws. Stafford's college team was never as good as it should've been and he wasn't as good as he should've been either. D.J. Shockley and David Greene put up similar numbers in the same system and won SEC titles -- something Stafford never did. Scouts might compare Stafford to Carson Palmer and Jay Cutler physically, but he's in the Rex Grossman, Dave Ragone, and Brodie Croyle range from a production standpoint.

Verdict: Lewin noted that Stafford's college stats and success level were unimpressive with so many tools and weapons, and there's no reason to think he'll be a better pro than collegiate. While Stafford will surely be a top-ten pick, his track record says he'll be a long-term starter whose team tops out in the 9-7 range because of inconsistent quarterback play. Stafford will look like a Pro Bowler in one game, and Joey Harrington in the next.

4. Nate Davis, Ball State

Height/Weight: 6'2/217
College Experience: Third-year junior
Projected 40: 4.65
Comparison: David Garrard
2008 Stats: 258-of-401 (64.3%), 3,591 Yds, 26 Tds, 8 Ints, 4.7 YPC, 5 Rush Tds

Positives: Like Stafford, Davis boasts a high number (34) of college starts for an underclassman. A standout athlete, Davis could've played D-I hoops after setting his high school's all-time scoring record. The 2008 MAC Offensive POY is accurate, having completed 60.3% of his career attempts at Ball State with a 74:20 TD to INT ratio. Davis plays with a gunslinger mentality and flashes leadership skills. He is willing to take hits and will be a positive-yardage scrambling threat in the pros. Davis can deliver the football quickly and possesses enough arm strength to make all the necessary NFL throws.

Negatives: Davis had a 22-12 career record at Ball State, but was 5-7 out of conference. He faced weaker competition than Stafford, Freeman, and Sanchez. Apparently knowing he'd declare for the draft late in his college career, Davis tanked with five turnovers against Buffalo in Ball State's final regular season game and went 9-of-29 against Tulsa in the GMAC Bowl, appearing frightened by the Golden Hurricane's blitzes. BSU dropped both contests. Davis tends to hold onto the football too long and took 40 sacks in his final two seasons.

Lewin on Davis: What stands out about Davis is that he stayed accurate after losing top wideout Dante Love to career-ending injury in Week 4. Davis had success throughout his college career, putting up better numbers than Patrick Ramsey, Charlie Batch, and J.P. Losman against similar competition. While he isn't in the Ben Roethlisberger, Chad Pennington, or Byron Leftwich range, Davis is a solid second-tier prospect with the potential to be an NFL starter.

Verdict: Davis has all the tools and his resume as a three-year starter with a strong completion rate is impressive. However, his record outside the MAC and late-career collapse makes it clear that Davis will face a steep learning curve. If he is thrown into the fire like Tarvaris Jackson, Davis probably will not fulfill expectations. He isn't ready to handle the pressure.

Continue story ...

El Minion
04-10-2009, 06:37 PM
You know, the statistician (Dave Lewin) who originally published the article that called attention to the dangers of taking a junior qb had other nuggets of wisdom to drop. For example, Brohm is the best franchise qb in the draft, Matt Ryan isn't worth a first round pick, Flacco isn't worth a first day pick. Any GM who makes his decisions based on historical statistics rather then experienced evaluation of key individual skills and personalities of each player is taking bigger risks, not smaller ones.

The problem with statistics is are they descriptive or predictive analysis. He does appear to miss the mark last year but lets give Ryan and Flacco another year to see if they are one year wonders or can improve their game.

Draft '08: The Quarterbacks (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/features/column.aspx?sport=Nfl&columnid=60&articleid=29927)

1. Brian Brohm, Louisville

Height/Weight: 6'3/224
College Experience: Fourth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.79
Comparison: Carson Palmer
2007 Statistics: 308-of-473 (65.1%), 4,024 Yds, 30 Tds, 12 Ints, 3 Rush Tds

Positives: An all-state high school point guard who was drafted by the Rockies in 2004, Brohm is a natural athlete. He started three and a half years at Louisville and never completed under 63.6% of his passes. Brohm's release, touch, and all-around mechanics are outstanding. His preparation and passion for the game is comparable to Peyton Manning's. Brohm is adept at reading coverages and was effective in new coach Steve Kragthorpe's more pro-style offense after Bobby Petrino left for the Falcons in early 2007.

Negatives: Brohm tore his ACL ten games into the 2005 season and missed three games in 2006 following thumb surgery. Brohm also had surgery on his throwing shoulder in January of 2007, although he didn't appear to lose any arm strength, averaging 8.51 yards per attempt with more passes thrown and yards than ever.

Lewin on Brian Brohm: There is very little not to like about Brohm. People were turned off by Louisville's struggles in 2007, but Brohm stayed exceptionally accurate. He hardly ever threw interceptions in college. In terms of execution, Brohm compares to Tom Brady. He is as close to a surefire franchise quarterback as there is in this year's draft.

Verdict: Brohm's arm isn't on Andre Woodson's level, but his combination of accuracy, smarts, and work ethic is the best in the draft. Durability is a concern, but his specific injuries haven't been recurring. Brohm is unlikely to be the top QB taken because of all the hype surrounding Matt Ryan, but he has the best chance to be a Pro Bowl caliber player. Brohm is still likely to go in the middle of the first round, and could creep into the top ten.

2. Andre Woodson, Kentucky

Height/Weight: 6'4/234
College Experience: Fifth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.80
Comparison: Jason Campbell
2007 Statistics: 327-of-518 (63.1%), 3,709 Yds, 40 Tds, 11 Ints, 3 Rush Tds

Positives: Woodson took over after Shane Boyd's departure in 2005 and started the next three years, improving markedly in each. Woodson was never injured during his college career. He has ideal arm strength, and has been known to throw the ball 70-80 yards downfield. He also isn't afraid to tuck and run. Woodson is from a military background, has a disciplined personality, and showed excellent decision making skills against elite college competition.

Negatives: Woodson has a somewhat deliberate throwing motion. He can get happy feet in the pocket and pat the ball too much. Woodson took at least 30 sacks in each of his three years as a starter, although his protection was inconsistent and SEC opponents hardly had to worry about the Kentucky running game. Woodson will not be a scrambler in the NFL.

Lewin on Andre Woodson: Woodson's accuracy is not spectacular, but he projects as an above average to good starting NFL quarterback. Brett Favre got away with a windup, and Woodson's isn't in Byron Leftwich's league. The only way Woodson should fail is if NFL coaches tinker with his delivery. Teams can be very confident using a late first-round pick on Andre Woodson.

Verdict: Woodson threw for 358 yards and four TDs against a highly talented Florida State secondary in the Music City Bowl. He entered the offseason a potential top-15 pick. His stock now appears to be falling after a shaky Senior Bowl showing. It is amazing that three seasons of superb production in the SEC could be erased by one pre-draft event. Considering who coached him (QB-breaking 49ers coordinator Mike Martz) and that every quarterback on the South squad (also Colt Brennan, Erik Ainge) struggled in those practices, it is no surprise that Woodson, whose skill set is the exact opposite of a Martz QB, did as well. Woodson has a minor mechanical flaw, but it will be a crime if he falls well into the second round.

3. Matt Ryan, Boston College

Height/Weight: 6'5/221
College Experience: Fifth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.82
Comparison: pre-Super Bowl XLII Eli Manning
2007 Statistics: 388-of-654 (59.3%), 4,507 Yds, 31 Tds, 19 Ints, 2 rush Tds

Positives: Ryan redshirted as a freshman and took over for injured Quinton Porter as a third-year sophomore. He showed toughness playing through a foot injury as a junior. Ryan had a weak supporting cast at BC, but still found ways to win. He has ideal intangibles and is a proven leader. He doesn't have a cannon, but possesses good arm strength and can make most of the NFL-required throws. Ryan's best attributes are his picturesque delivery and consistency in the clutch.

Negatives: Ryan only started for two and a half seasons. His completion rates dropped each year. Ryan missed a game as a fourth-year junior with a high ankle sprain and underwent offseason foot surgery. He will force throws into coverage and threw too many picks as a senior. Ryan's upside is limited because of his only above average combination of athleticism and arm strength.

Lewin on Matt Ryan: Ryan's number of pass attempts as a senior is staggering and may have contributed to his modest completion rate. Ryan is like Carson Palmer in going through his progressions and his mechanics are flawless. But his production just wasn't that great in college and his inconsistent decision making sends up a red flag. People fall in love with guys like Matt Ryan, but he certainly isn't worth the No. 1 pick overall. Ryan would be a better fit in the second round.

Verdict: Ryan's completion percentage to college starts ratio is not nearly as impressive as Woodson or Brian Brohm's. He wasn't surrounded by great weapons, but did have an elite offensive line. Because he can look so special on film, Ryan will be a first-round pick and projects as a solid NFL starter. But his tendency to force things is a flaw that can be uncorrectable. Ryan's decision to withdraw from pre-draft events also will not help him on April 26.

4. Chad Henne, Michigan

Height/Weight: 6'3/228
College Experience: Fourth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.79
Comparison: Jake Plummer
2007 Statistics: 162-of-278 (58.3%), 1,938 Yds, 17 Tds, 9 Ints, 0 Rush Tds

Positives: Henne has rare experience as a four-year starter. He gets another leg up because of his time under center in Michigan's pro-style offense. Henne has close to an ideal arm and can make all the necessary throws. He is especially accurate in the vertical game. Henne is mechanically sound and puts good touch on underneath passes. He can be a game manager and is effective on play fakes.

Negatives: Considering his weapons (Mario Manningham, Adrian Arrington, Mike Hart), Henne should have put up better numbers across the board in college. He doesn't always know when to throw the ball away and can be streaky. Henne will not be a running threat in the NFL. His senior year was his worst, as Henne struggled while playing through a separated shoulder.

Lewin on Chad Henne: Henne was never all that accurate at Michigan, but his college pedigree and skill set are similar to Brady Quinn's. With loads of starts against top defenses, Henne established that he can play at a pretty high level. Scouts do not miss on guys who started all four years. Henne is probably the No. 2 quarterback in the draft, behind only Brohm, and just ahead of Woodson and Ryan.

Verdict: Henne's college stats were never prolific, which could be due to a number of factors (i.e. opponents, conservative UM offense). He also never got much better after his freshman season. But Henne has the intangibles, toughness, and physical traits to be a ten-year starter and an above average NFL quarterback. His stock is on the rise after a strong showing at the Senior Bowl, and it wouldn't be a surprise if he's a late first-round pick. Just don't expect many Pro Bowl appearances.

5. Josh Johnson, San Diego

Height/Weight: 6'3/198
College Experience: Fourth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.61
Comparison: Steve McNair
2007 Statistics: 206-of-301 (68.4%), 2,988 Yds, 41 Tds, 1 Int, 101 carries (7.2 YPC), 2 Tds

Positives: Johnson is the top athlete among QBs who will be drafted. He has speed to pick up yards with his feet and moves to elude defenders in the open field. Johnson started three years at USD and never completed less than 66.3% of his passes. He improved by leaps and bounds each season. Johnson faced weak competition in D-IAA, but excelled against higher level players and won Offensive MVP of the East-West Shrine Game. He is a legitimate dual threat who is not known to be involved in dog fighting.

Negatives: Johnson must add weight to his frame to hold up at the next level, and more bulk could slow him down. He is considered to have a good arm, but must work on his touch. He also faces a major jump up in not only competition, but concepts as he learns an offense that will be much more complex and demanding than the one he played in at San Diego. Johnson is highly unlikely to make an impact during his initial one to two NFL seasons.

Lewin on Josh Johnson: In comparing two D-IAA quarterbacks, Johnson clearly is a better prospect than Joe Flacco. These are the Steve McNair-type numbers you look for from sub-Division I QBs.

Verdict: Johnson was recruited by Jim Harbaugh before Harbaugh took the coaching job at Stanford. Johnson drew interest from D-I schools, but was not offered scholarships. His high school used a run-first attack, with Johnson's cousin Marshawn Lynch the centerpiece on offense. Johnson broke his leg as a prep junior. Clearly he is a project, but Johnson's elite multi-faceted skills make him well worth a third- or fourth-round pick. Because Johnson has exhibited a high degree of accuracy, he is a far better prospect than Tarvaris Jackson was at this time two years ago.


9. Joe Flacco, Delaware

Height/Weight: 6'6/232
College Experience: Fifth-year senior
Projected 40: 5.0
Comparison: Andrew Walter
2007 Statistics: 331-of-521 (63.5%), 4,263 Yds, 23 Tds, 5 Ints, 4 Rush Tds

Positives/Negatives: A classic dropback passer, Flacco has possibly the strongest pure arm in the draft. His accuracy at Delaware was solid, but Flacco faced weak D-IAA competition. He possesses tremendous size and is hard to bring down. However, Flacco played in a shotgun-heavy offense in college and struggled taking snaps from center at the Senior Bowl. His footwork is poor, and he has a slow dropback. Flacco also lacks any kind of mobility.

Lewin on Joe Flacco: Flacco's inability to beat out Tyler Palko for a starting job at Pitt sends up an immediate red flag. He posted good numbers in two seasons, but they still weren't on McNair or Chad Pennington's level. You want D-IAA guys to dominate like Josh Johnson. Flacco carries a lot of risk, and isn't worth a first-day pick.

Verdict: Flacco was behind Tyler Palko on the Pittsburgh depth chart early in his college career. He transferred to D-IAA Delaware, sat out the 2005 season, and began starting in 2006. Flacco has some intriguing tools, but wasn't good enough to beat out a quarterback that ultimately went undrafted and likely doesn't have a career in the NFL. Using reason, the idea that Flacco should be a second- or third-round draft pick is illogical. Flacco is more of a second-day to late second-day prospect who should be viewed as a project, not relied on to play within the next two seasons.

Tombstone RJ
04-10-2009, 07:00 PM
The problem with statistics is are they descriptive or predictive analysis. He does appear to miss the mark last year but lets give Ryan and Flacco another year to see if they are one year wonders or can improve their game.

Draft '08: The Quarterbacks (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/features/column.aspx?sport=Nfl&columnid=60&articleid=29927)

1. Brian Brohm, Louisville

Height/Weight: 6'3/224
College Experience: Fourth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.79
Comparison: Carson Palmer
2007 Statistics: 308-of-473 (65.1%), 4,024 Yds, 30 Tds, 12 Ints, 3 Rush Tds

Positives: An all-state high school point guard who was drafted by the Rockies in 2004, Brohm is a natural athlete. He started three and a half years at Louisville and never completed under 63.6% of his passes. Brohm's release, touch, and all-around mechanics are outstanding. His preparation and passion for the game is comparable to Peyton Manning's. Brohm is adept at reading coverages and was effective in new coach Steve Kragthorpe's more pro-style offense after Bobby Petrino left for the Falcons in early 2007.

Negatives: Brohm tore his ACL ten games into the 2005 season and missed three games in 2006 following thumb surgery. Brohm also had surgery on his throwing shoulder in January of 2007, although he didn't appear to lose any arm strength, averaging 8.51 yards per attempt with more passes thrown and yards than ever.

Lewin on Brian Brohm: There is very little not to like about Brohm. People were turned off by Louisville's struggles in 2007, but Brohm stayed exceptionally accurate. He hardly ever threw interceptions in college. In terms of execution, Brohm compares to Tom Brady. He is as close to a surefire franchise quarterback as there is in this year's draft.

Verdict: Brohm's arm isn't on Andre Woodson's level, but his combination of accuracy, smarts, and work ethic is the best in the draft. Durability is a concern, but his specific injuries haven't been recurring. Brohm is unlikely to be the top QB taken because of all the hype surrounding Matt Ryan, but he has the best chance to be a Pro Bowl caliber player. Brohm is still likely to go in the middle of the first round, and could creep into the top ten.

2. Andre Woodson, Kentucky

Height/Weight: 6'4/234
College Experience: Fifth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.80
Comparison: Jason Campbell
2007 Statistics: 327-of-518 (63.1%), 3,709 Yds, 40 Tds, 11 Ints, 3 Rush Tds

Positives: Woodson took over after Shane Boyd's departure in 2005 and started the next three years, improving markedly in each. Woodson was never injured during his college career. He has ideal arm strength, and has been known to throw the ball 70-80 yards downfield. He also isn't afraid to tuck and run. Woodson is from a military background, has a disciplined personality, and showed excellent decision making skills against elite college competition.

Negatives: Woodson has a somewhat deliberate throwing motion. He can get happy feet in the pocket and pat the ball too much. Woodson took at least 30 sacks in each of his three years as a starter, although his protection was inconsistent and SEC opponents hardly had to worry about the Kentucky running game. Woodson will not be a scrambler in the NFL.

Lewin on Andre Woodson: Woodson's accuracy is not spectacular, but he projects as an above average to good starting NFL quarterback. Brett Favre got away with a windup, and Woodson's isn't in Byron Leftwich's league. The only way Woodson should fail is if NFL coaches tinker with his delivery. Teams can be very confident using a late first-round pick on Andre Woodson.

Verdict: Woodson threw for 358 yards and four TDs against a highly talented Florida State secondary in the Music City Bowl. He entered the offseason a potential top-15 pick. His stock now appears to be falling after a shaky Senior Bowl showing. It is amazing that three seasons of superb production in the SEC could be erased by one pre-draft event. Considering who coached him (QB-breaking 49ers coordinator Mike Martz) and that every quarterback on the South squad (also Colt Brennan, Erik Ainge) struggled in those practices, it is no surprise that Woodson, whose skill set is the exact opposite of a Martz QB, did as well. Woodson has a minor mechanical flaw, but it will be a crime if he falls well into the second round.

3. Matt Ryan, Boston College

Height/Weight: 6'5/221
College Experience: Fifth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.82
Comparison: pre-Super Bowl XLII Eli Manning
2007 Statistics: 388-of-654 (59.3%), 4,507 Yds, 31 Tds, 19 Ints, 2 rush Tds

Positives: Ryan redshirted as a freshman and took over for injured Quinton Porter as a third-year sophomore. He showed toughness playing through a foot injury as a junior. Ryan had a weak supporting cast at BC, but still found ways to win. He has ideal intangibles and is a proven leader. He doesn't have a cannon, but possesses good arm strength and can make most of the NFL-required throws. Ryan's best attributes are his picturesque delivery and consistency in the clutch.

Negatives: Ryan only started for two and a half seasons. His completion rates dropped each year. Ryan missed a game as a fourth-year junior with a high ankle sprain and underwent offseason foot surgery. He will force throws into coverage and threw too many picks as a senior. Ryan's upside is limited because of his only above average combination of athleticism and arm strength.

Lewin on Matt Ryan: Ryan's number of pass attempts as a senior is staggering and may have contributed to his modest completion rate. Ryan is like Carson Palmer in going through his progressions and his mechanics are flawless. But his production just wasn't that great in college and his inconsistent decision making sends up a red flag. People fall in love with guys like Matt Ryan, but he certainly isn't worth the No. 1 pick overall. Ryan would be a better fit in the second round.

Verdict: Ryan's completion percentage to college starts ratio is not nearly as impressive as Woodson or Brian Brohm's. He wasn't surrounded by great weapons, but did have an elite offensive line. Because he can look so special on film, Ryan will be a first-round pick and projects as a solid NFL starter. But his tendency to force things is a flaw that can be uncorrectable. Ryan's decision to withdraw from pre-draft events also will not help him on April 26.

4. Chad Henne, Michigan

Height/Weight: 6'3/228
College Experience: Fourth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.79
Comparison: Jake Plummer
2007 Statistics: 162-of-278 (58.3%), 1,938 Yds, 17 Tds, 9 Ints, 0 Rush Tds

Positives: Henne has rare experience as a four-year starter. He gets another leg up because of his time under center in Michigan's pro-style offense. Henne has close to an ideal arm and can make all the necessary throws. He is especially accurate in the vertical game. Henne is mechanically sound and puts good touch on underneath passes. He can be a game manager and is effective on play fakes.

Negatives: Considering his weapons (Mario Manningham, Adrian Arrington, Mike Hart), Henne should have put up better numbers across the board in college. He doesn't always know when to throw the ball away and can be streaky. Henne will not be a running threat in the NFL. His senior year was his worst, as Henne struggled while playing through a separated shoulder.

Lewin on Chad Henne: Henne was never all that accurate at Michigan, but his college pedigree and skill set are similar to Brady Quinn's. With loads of starts against top defenses, Henne established that he can play at a pretty high level. Scouts do not miss on guys who started all four years. Henne is probably the No. 2 quarterback in the draft, behind only Brohm, and just ahead of Woodson and Ryan.

Verdict: Henne's college stats were never prolific, which could be due to a number of factors (i.e. opponents, conservative UM offense). He also never got much better after his freshman season. But Henne has the intangibles, toughness, and physical traits to be a ten-year starter and an above average NFL quarterback. His stock is on the rise after a strong showing at the Senior Bowl, and it wouldn't be a surprise if he's a late first-round pick. Just don't expect many Pro Bowl appearances.

5. Josh Johnson, San Diego

Height/Weight: 6'3/198
College Experience: Fourth-year senior
Projected 40: 4.61
Comparison: Steve McNair
2007 Statistics: 206-of-301 (68.4%), 2,988 Yds, 41 Tds, 1 Int, 101 carries (7.2 YPC), 2 Tds

Positives: Johnson is the top athlete among QBs who will be drafted. He has speed to pick up yards with his feet and moves to elude defenders in the open field. Johnson started three years at USD and never completed less than 66.3% of his passes. He improved by leaps and bounds each season. Johnson faced weak competition in D-IAA, but excelled against higher level players and won Offensive MVP of the East-West Shrine Game. He is a legitimate dual threat who is not known to be involved in dog fighting.

Negatives: Johnson must add weight to his frame to hold up at the next level, and more bulk could slow him down. He is considered to have a good arm, but must work on his touch. He also faces a major jump up in not only competition, but concepts as he learns an offense that will be much more complex and demanding than the one he played in at San Diego. Johnson is highly unlikely to make an impact during his initial one to two NFL seasons.

Lewin on Josh Johnson: In comparing two D-IAA quarterbacks, Johnson clearly is a better prospect than Joe Flacco. These are the Steve McNair-type numbers you look for from sub-Division I QBs.

Verdict: Johnson was recruited by Jim Harbaugh before Harbaugh took the coaching job at Stanford. Johnson drew interest from D-I schools, but was not offered scholarships. His high school used a run-first attack, with Johnson's cousin Marshawn Lynch the centerpiece on offense. Johnson broke his leg as a prep junior. Clearly he is a project, but Johnson's elite multi-faceted skills make him well worth a third- or fourth-round pick. Because Johnson has exhibited a high degree of accuracy, he is a far better prospect than Tarvaris Jackson was at this time two years ago.


9. Joe Flacco, Delaware

Height/Weight: 6'6/232
College Experience: Fifth-year senior
Projected 40: 5.0
Comparison: Andrew Walter
2007 Statistics: 331-of-521 (63.5%), 4,263 Yds, 23 Tds, 5 Ints, 4 Rush Tds

Positives/Negatives: A classic dropback passer, Flacco has possibly the strongest pure arm in the draft. His accuracy at Delaware was solid, but Flacco faced weak D-IAA competition. He possesses tremendous size and is hard to bring down. However, Flacco played in a shotgun-heavy offense in college and struggled taking snaps from center at the Senior Bowl. His footwork is poor, and he has a slow dropback. Flacco also lacks any kind of mobility.

Lewin on Joe Flacco: Flacco's inability to beat out Tyler Palko for a starting job at Pitt sends up an immediate red flag. He posted good numbers in two seasons, but they still weren't on McNair or Chad Pennington's level. You want D-IAA guys to dominate like Josh Johnson. Flacco carries a lot of risk, and isn't worth a first-day pick.

Verdict: Flacco was behind Tyler Palko on the Pittsburgh depth chart early in his college career. He transferred to D-IAA Delaware, sat out the 2005 season, and began starting in 2006. Flacco has some intriguing tools, but wasn't good enough to beat out a quarterback that ultimately went undrafted and likely doesn't have a career in the NFL. Using reason, the idea that Flacco should be a second- or third-round draft pick is illogical. Flacco is more of a second-day to late second-day prospect who should be viewed as a project, not relied on to play within the next two seasons.

Hmmmm... wonder if this guy has a clue....

Mogulseeker
04-10-2009, 07:31 PM
I cjust want everyuone to know that alcohol is a god thing!

meangene
04-22-2009, 07:13 AM
Per Foxsports and ESPN, Harvin tested positive at the combine for marijuana. Go figure!

DrFate
04-22-2009, 09:20 AM
I wouldn't draft by generalities. Sanchez is much more ready for the NFL then Stafford in my opinion.

A one year wonder vs. a 3 year starter? Explain, please...