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View Full Version : Is Bears defense even still good?


cutthemdown
04-07-2009, 04:23 PM
To tell you the truth I don't think I have cared enough about Bears to be informed on this team at all......Until now.

So you know I've been doing what everyone else has been doing. Snooping around, reading, checking stats, looking at the Bears depth chart and getting to know their depth chart.

Of course we all focused on the offensive line and WR, how will Jay do?

But people may be surprised to know that the Bears defense isn't as good as you think.

Bears offense scored 23.4 points a game with was 16th in the NFL. Now they did that while being 26th in yrds which could point to good field position, defense scoring. But considering the amount of pressure Bears qbs were under I'm surprised they did as well as that.

The defense did no better IMO.

they gave up 21.9 points a game which was 16th in the NFL. 334 yrds a game which was 21st in the NFL. The secondary gave up 250 yrds a game and was 30th defending the pass. The run defense was pretty good but maybe team just passed all day.

So if the Bears don't have the weapons Broncos have, and Cutler is less effective, and they don't get better on defense, then will they really be that good this yr?

broncofan7
04-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Yes. They will be better this year with an improved offensive line and a better QB,a 2nd year RB and the defense will not feel as though they have to win games. Don't kid yourself into thinking that they are going to struggle to anywhere NEAR the level of our pending ineptitude.

lex
04-07-2009, 04:31 PM
It seems to flow through Tommie Harris for the most part. And it seems that if he has a good year then a lot of guys have a good year. Urlacher had some back problems a couple of years ago. That could have played into it. Also, Chicagos safeties werent all that once you got past Mike Brown. Theyve overpaid their CBs considering that theyre cover 2.

hambone13
04-07-2009, 04:31 PM
To tell you the truth I don't think I have cared enough about Bears to be informed on this team at all......Until now.

So you know I've been doing what everyone else has been doing. Snooping around, reading, checking stats, looking at the Bears depth chart and getting to know their depth chart.

Of course we all focused on the offensive line and WR, how will Jay do?

But people may be surprised to know that the Bears defense isn't as good as you think.

Bears offense scored 23.4 points a game with was 16th in the NFL. Now they did that while being 26th in yrds which could point to good field position, defense scoring. But considering the amount of pressure Bears qbs were under I'm surprised they did as well as that.

The defense did no better IMO.

they gave up 21.9 points a game which was 16th in the NFL. 334 yrds a game which was 21st in the NFL. The secondary gave up 250 yrds a game and was 30th defending the pass. The run defense was pretty good but maybe team just passed all day.

So if the Bears don't have the weapons Broncos have, and Cutler is less effective, and they don't get better on defense, then will they really be that good this yr?

The general consensus in the Chicago media and (educated/football smart) fan base is that the Bears defense is aging and underperformed last year. The theme of many conversations in Chi-town is that the core of the defense has another 2-4 years before they're really in trouble and that the team is poised to be more balanced and could be relatively competitive (top 10) with the buzz/inspiration of a more promising offense and increased PR spotlight on the team.

24champ
04-07-2009, 04:38 PM
Why are we talking about the Bears? Why are we so worried about what they will look like next season, if their D is up to snuff or not?

CEH
04-07-2009, 04:38 PM
32 forced turnovers compared to 13 for Denver last year.
Big big differnce. I'd say they are going to give Cutler plenty of opportunities to score points.
Much more than the piss poor Denver D gave our O last year.
PPl tend to ignore that stat when comparing the offensive output of both teams.

lex
04-07-2009, 04:40 PM
Why are we talking about the Bears? Why are we so worried about what they will look like next season, if their D is up to snuff or not?


Schadenfreude

boltaneer
04-07-2009, 04:41 PM
The Bears defense started going downhill once they let Ron Rivera go. :strong:

Tombstone RJ
04-07-2009, 04:45 PM
To tell you the truth I don't think I have cared enough about Bears to be informed on this team at all......Until now.

So you know I've been doing what everyone else has been doing. Snooping around, reading, checking stats, looking at the Bears depth chart and getting to know their depth chart.

Of course we all focused on the offensive line and WR, how will Jay do?

But people may be surprised to know that the Bears defense isn't as good as you think.

Bears offense scored 23.4 points a game with was 16th in the NFL. Now they did that while being 26th in yrds which could point to good field position, defense scoring. But considering the amount of pressure Bears qbs were under I'm surprised they did as well as that.

The defense did no better IMO.

they gave up 21.9 points a game which was 16th in the NFL. 334 yrds a game which was 21st in the NFL. The secondary gave up 250 yrds a game and was 30th defending the pass. The run defense was pretty good but maybe team just passed all day.

So if the Bears don't have the weapons Broncos have, and Cutler is less effective, and they don't get better on defense, then will they really be that good this yr?

Da bears benefit greatly from the crappy NFCN schedule. I mean, playing the lions twice a year is a good thing. You never know what your gonna get with the viqueens and the puckers. They could be good, they could suck.

But I agree, there are some issues with da bears defense. Reputation has gotten them the benefit of the doubt. However, in reality, if the da bears field a mediocre defense they still can go far with Cutler.

cutthemdown
04-07-2009, 04:46 PM
32 forced turnovers compared to 13 for Denver last year.
Big big differnce. I'd say they are going to give Cutler plenty of opportunities to score points.
Much more than the piss poor Denver D gave our O last year.
PPl tend to ignore that stat when comparing the offensive output of both teams.

good point

cutthemdown
04-07-2009, 04:47 PM
I've seen bad defenses get a ton of turnovers before though. You ever know when you might start getting those or not getting them.

baja
04-07-2009, 04:48 PM
Here is theur schedule;

Chicago
Home: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, Arizona, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Pittsburgh
Away: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, San Francisco, Seattle, Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati

Popps
04-07-2009, 04:55 PM
To tell you the truth I don't think I have cared enough about Bears to be informed on this team at all......Until now.

So you know I've been doing what everyone else has been doing. Snooping around, reading, checking stats, looking at the Bears depth chart and getting to know their depth chart.

Of course we all focused on the offensive line and WR, how will Jay do?

But people may be surprised to know that the Bears defense isn't as good as you think.

Bears offense scored 23.4 points a game with was 16th in the NFL.

LOL

A lot of good a "franchise" QB did us, huh?

The lowly Bears put as many points on the board as we did.

cutthemdown
04-07-2009, 04:59 PM
LOL

A lot of good a "franchise" QB did us, huh?

The lowly Bears put as many points on the board as we did.

Broncos get a lot of yrds between the 20's but for some reason lately Shanny had a tough time being good in the redzone.

Broncos left a lot of points on the field over last 2 yrs.

anon
04-07-2009, 05:11 PM
Broncos get a lot of yrds between the 20's but for some reason lately Shanny had a tough time being good in the redzone.

Broncos left a lot of points on the field over last 2 yrs.

It's been that way with Shanny's Broncos for years: difficulty punching it in once the offense got close.

The Bears' team stats hint that a more balanced team can win just as many games as a team with a "great" offense and poor defense. Let's hope we hit with this mother lode of draft picks.

Kaylore
04-07-2009, 05:27 PM
Why are we talking about the Bears? Why are we so worried about what they will look like next season, if their D is up to snuff or not?

The worse they are, the better our pick is. I hope they win 3-4 games. No more. No less.

USMCBladerunner
04-07-2009, 05:33 PM
I need to finish reading the whole first post, but I thought the Broncos were 16th in scoring...both can't be.

Popps
04-07-2009, 05:42 PM
Why are we talking about the Bears? Why are we so worried about what they will look like next season, if their D is up to snuff or not?

Well, we have this little issue of a draft pick that could end up #1 or #30 overall. Some fans may find that somewhat significant.

Kaylore
04-07-2009, 05:43 PM
I need to finish reading the whole first post, but I thought the Broncos were 16th in scoring...both can't be.

Sure it can, if we scored the same number of points as them...and we did.

Edit: So I checked and the 2008 Broncos scored 370 making them 16th alone. According to NFL.com the Bears tied with the Vikings for 14th with 375 points each. Profootball reference shows us tied with the bears as the 16th best scoring offense.

FYI the Bears had the 16th best scoring defense.

RunSilentRunDeep
04-07-2009, 05:52 PM
32 forced turnovers compared to 13 for Denver last year.
Big big differnce. I'd say they are going to give Cutler plenty of opportunities to score points.
Much more than the piss poor Denver D gave our O last year.
PPl tend to ignore that stat when comparing the offensive output of both teams.

Bingo. The Bears +17 and the Broncos -5 is far more important than any yardage total.

Kaylore
04-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Bingo. The Bears +17 and the Broncos -5 is far more important than any yardage total.

The problem with that is it could be, and probably is, anomalous. Turnovers are pretty streaky team to team, year to year, even for the good defensive teams. For comparison, the only team to force fewer fumbles than the Broncos were the Bears, so all their turnovers came from interceptions. You can bet that they won't get near the number of interceptions they did next year versus this year.

The other issue to that differential you posted is giveaways, and Cutler was the second highest intercepted QB last year second only to (you guessed it) queen Favre. I have serious doubts that Cutler is going to throttle that down in his first season learning a new system. That's going to pull things down a bit for the Bears as well.

CEH
04-07-2009, 06:48 PM
The problem with that is it could be, and probably is, anomalous. Turnovers are pretty streaky team to team, year to year, even for the good defensive teams. For comparison, the only team to force fewer fumbles than the Broncos were the Bears, so all their turnovers came from interceptions. You can bet that they won't get near the number of interceptions they did next year versus this year.

The other issue to that differential you posted is giveaways, and Cutler was the second highest intercepted QB last year second only to (you guessed it) queen Favre. I have serious doubts that Cutler is going to throttle that down in his first season learning a new system. That's going to pull things down a bit for the Bears as well.

Cutler's INT to Pass ratio was like 1:31. Brees 1:34 BRoth 1:32

Bears are always up there in defensive turnovers. I expect to be even more aggresive with a better offense.

22,16,24,24,17 INTs the last five years. I'd bet the over at 19 in '09

Kaylore
04-07-2009, 06:57 PM
Cutler also has a way worse redzone turnover ratio than either Brees or Roethlisberger. And to be fair, Big Ben didn't really have that good of a year last year.

snowspot66
04-07-2009, 07:11 PM
Yes. They will be better this year with an improved offensive line and a better QB,a 2nd year RB and the defense will not feel as though they have to win games. Don't kid yourself into thinking that they are going to struggle to anywhere NEAR the level of our pending ineptitude.

Improved offensive line? Who? An old Pace? A 2nd year Williams coming off of back surgery and never having played a snap? It could just as easily be a disaster on the OL.

They'll get some wins just from being in the NFC North though.

broncosteven
04-07-2009, 07:15 PM
Why are we talking about the Bears? Why are we so worried about what they will look like next season, if their D is up to snuff or not?

Everyone is afraid that we made a bad move.

DA BEARS D is aging, Hillenmeyer is the lone LB that found a way to play himself out of starting.

They have a bad WR Corp who dropped a lot of balls the last couple of years.

I agree with the guy who said Tommie Harris makes others better.

Urlicker has a bad back he has peaked and now usually has a OL blocking him.

Briggs, who pulled the same thing Cutler did but worse 2 years ago, is the best player on the D at WILL.

They have issues at Safety and corner play is not consistent. The safety issues are more telling due to the cover 2 system and each playing 1/2 the field.

Cutler will help out their Oline as he can move and is healthy. Orton played on a bum knee 1/2 the year.

I think Cutler will get Bennet on the field this year.

Chris Williams and a healthy Orlando Pace are both improvements on the Oline, they actually have decent depth at tackle now on Paper.

I am guessing their 2nd round pick this year is either WR or Safety. They will not have to worry about picking a 1st round bust and can focus on talent that fits their system.

Their D faded down the stretch last year much like ours but they still have more talent than we do.

TheChamp24
04-07-2009, 07:24 PM
Why are we talking about the Bears? Why are we so worried about what they will look like next season, if their D is up to snuff or not?

I'm hoping they suck ass next year and we get a top 10 pick :)

broncosteven
04-07-2009, 07:34 PM
I'm hoping they suck ass next year and we get a top 10 pick :)

I am guessing it is more likely that we get the top 10 pick on our own.

Just think in a rebuilding year with new HC, move to 3-4 D, new DC, new QB -TBD. I can't think of anything positive other than Shanny is gone and it won't be his fault anymore.

broncosteven
04-07-2009, 07:37 PM
Improved offensive line? Who? An old Pace? A 2nd year Williams coming off of back surgery and never having played a snap? It could just as easily be a disaster on the OL.

They'll get some wins just from being in the NFC North though.

I though Williams played the last couple of games and started last year?

I did have surgery at the end of the year and was in and out of it but I thought he played at least 2 games.

EDIT:
Chris Williams played the last 3 games of the year for DA BEARS.

baja
04-07-2009, 07:39 PM
I am guessing it is more likely that we get the top 10 pick on our own.

Just think in a rebuilding year with new HC, move to 3-4 D, new DC, new QB -TBD. I can't think of anything positive other than Shanny is gone and it won't be his fault anymore.
Maybe we get two top ten picks?

broncosteven
04-07-2009, 07:45 PM
Maybe we get two top ten picks?

or 2 top 5 picks!


Someone should start a poll. I guess 1 top 7 and one higher than 25. I hope ours is the >25 but not holding my breath. Especially with our brutal schedule.

DBroncos4life
04-07-2009, 08:49 PM
Improved offensive line? Who? An old Pace? A 2nd year Williams coming off of back surgery and never having played a snap? It could just as easily be a disaster on the OL.

They'll get some wins just from being in the NFC North though.

Man I wondered how long it would take someone to point this out. I think about 98% of this board called Harris a bust and a wasted pick you know because he missed his rookie year. Man what was it he hurt again? Man his injury what was it I so can't think of what it was. Oh well the point is he cameback and played at a pro bowl level.

24champ
04-07-2009, 09:00 PM
The worse they are, the better our pick is. I hope they win 3-4 games. No more. No less.

I just hope our FO is competent enough to scout players...rather than worrying about other teams and how they'll do. The draft is a crapshoot regardless of where we pick. We could end up picking a player like Vernon Gholston at #6...so far a bust...or a safety like Huff. You're only as good as your scouts are...not where you pick.

I just find it amusing that everyone is so worried about the Bears...and I don't think it relates to a draft pick, wasn't mentioned in the OP. Moreso than the Broncos looking like idiots in this trade, and that it will blow up in our face.

Kaylore
04-07-2009, 09:10 PM
I just hope our FO is competent enough to scout players...rather than worrying about other teams and how they'll do. The draft is a crapshoot regardless of where we pick. We could end up picking a player like Vernon Gholston at #6...so far a bust...or a safety like Huff. You're only as good as your scouts are...not where you pick.

I just find it amusing that everyone is so worried about the Bears...and I don't think it relates to a draft pick, wasn't mentioned in the OP. Moreso than the Broncos looking like idiots in this trade, and that it will blow up in our face.

That's the one thing I'm worried about. What if Xanders and McDaniels can't draft? Is there any instance where a young GM or Coach has been good at evaluating personnel? To my knowledge there isn't. We lost Jim Goodman at the worst possible time.

Then again, defensively speaking, how much worse could it be? We have enough ammo on offense to be ok for awhile. If we hit on two picks it will be better than Shanahan ever did with the exception of D-Wil and Al Wilson. So who knows. I'm having a hard time being optimistic about this draft, but at least we have a coaching staff I trust to develop any talent we do have on the roster.

cutthemdown
04-07-2009, 10:57 PM
That's the one thing I'm worried about. What if Xanders and McDaniels can't draft? Is there any instance where a young GM or Coach has been good at evaluating personnel? To my knowledge there isn't. We lost Jim Goodman at the worst possible time.

Then again, defensively speaking, how much worse could it be? We have enough ammo on offense to be ok for awhile. If we hit on two picks it will be better than Shanahan ever did with the exception of D-Wil and Al Wilson. So who knows. I'm having a hard time being optimistic about this draft, but at least we have a coaching staff I trust to develop any talent we do have on the roster.

Scouting has gotten so much better. I mean even the fans know who the top 100 players in the draft are. I think Mcdaniels will stick to big school prospects that played against top end talent. Also he will look for prototypical size for the position. By doing that I think he can better his chances for good solid NFL football players.

I would be surprised if he started taking chances on small school players, or players that need to grow a lot. I think we will take a lot of Seniors, not as many Jr's unless they are really big.

Hulamau
04-08-2009, 12:14 AM
Here is theur schedule;

Chicago
Home: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, Arizona, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Pittsburgh
Away: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, San Francisco, Seattle, Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati

Wow I wish we could trade schedules with them!

baja
04-08-2009, 12:17 AM
I see them at 8 and 8

snowspot66
04-08-2009, 07:38 AM
Man I wondered how long it would take someone to point this out. I think about 98% of this board called Harris a bust and a wasted pick you know because he missed his rookie year. Man what was it he hurt again? Man his injury what was it I so can't think of what it was. Oh well the point is he cameback and played at a pro bowl level.

Man, I wondered how long it would take for someone to take what I said and run away with assumptions.

You'll notice I said that it could just as easily be a disaster. I didn't say it would be a disaster. I didn't say he would be a bust. Hell it turns out he actually did get some playing time. But I pointed out that an Offensive Lineman with a back injury might *gasp* not return to 100% and end up a failure. Who woulda thunk it huh? Guess we'll have to wait and see but until we do assuming that they will have a better pass protection is a pretty big leap.

And I believe there was talk of Williams injury being the result of him just having a naturally bad back while Harris' was just a standard injury. Feel free to quote me and take me out of context though. It's been a long time since I remember reading that so it could be wrong and you can use it to make your point in whatever way you want.

Oh yeah, I was one of those 2% who thought he would come back and play well but I wasn't betting my last dollar on it.

oubronco
04-08-2009, 07:56 AM
I see them at 8 and 8

I see them at about 11-5 or 10-6

snowspot66
04-08-2009, 08:14 AM
I see them at 8 and 8

Chicago
Home: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, Arizona, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Pittsburgh

Away: Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, San Francisco, Seattle, Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati

I don't see how they can win any less than seven. It will take injuries to make them that bad. They have a powder puff schedule and they'll do well even with their talent deficiencies.

The only way they could do really poorly would depend on the schedule. Such as if Arizona draws them early in the year they can win in Chicago. If it's December they'll be ****ed.

WolfpackGuy
04-08-2009, 08:14 AM
They can actually get off the field and force turnovers, so it's better than the Broncos ragtag group.
But that's not saying much.

barryr
04-08-2009, 08:22 AM
The Bears have problems at OL, WR, and their secondary.

If their front 7 on defense stay healthy, then that could help offset a weak secondary. But if they have injury problems there again, that secondary will get exposed.

Their OL isn't that great, only average.

Their WR corp is average at best.

Whether the Bears can fix those things this offseason, we'll see.

In any case, if the Packers find a defense and the Vikings get better QB play, the divisions will be much tougher to win for the Bears.