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View Full Version : Who will have the better year between Cutler and Orton?


Br0nc0Buster
04-06-2009, 10:51 AM
I am not asking who is the better player.
I am asking statistically who do you think will have the better year between the two.

Obviously McDaniels sees something in Orton, and Orton is in a much better situation to succeed than Cutler. Orton has the superior Oline, recievers, and the running game is prolly around the same.

I expect Cutler to throw for more yards, but I think Orton will have the better TD/INT ratio.

I expect Cutler to win, but I am just curious how wide the margin is

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-06-2009, 10:54 AM
Statistically, I'm guessing Cutler will. More flat-out natural talent. But how that will translate when he doesn't have the time he had here to throw... I don't know.

I think Orton will definitely have fewer picks.

BroncoBuff
04-06-2009, 10:55 AM
Please.

snowspot66
04-06-2009, 10:56 AM
Cutler will probably have higher numbers of everything. Especially picks (15-20). All I want to see out of Orton is a solid campaign like Plummer put up in 05.

Spider
04-06-2009, 10:56 AM
Orton will throw more Td's and less pics .......Chicago's offense is very conservative

Br0nc0Buster
04-06-2009, 10:57 AM
Please.

Jake Plummer was talked as a potential MVP candidate in 05

It happens.....

broncofan2438
04-06-2009, 10:58 AM
Cutler should have the better year, but with the McDaniels offense, maybe Orton will have better numbers. Whos to say that Orton will even be on the team?

snowspot66
04-06-2009, 10:58 AM
I could see it working out where Cutler has fewer TDs. Chicago might decide it's better to just give Forte the ball 3 times at the 20.

SportinOne
04-06-2009, 10:58 AM
It will be interesting. Orton only threw the ball 465 times last year to Cutler's 600+.. And he still had 12 picks.. wait a minute..

broncofan7
04-06-2009, 11:04 AM
Cutler should have the better year, but with the McDaniels offense, maybe Orton will have better numbers. Whos to say that Orton will even be on the team?

I would tend to agree with your highlighted point except that Peter King's article stated that the selling point for McD was Orton. So, I think that he will probably be on the team, but I still am not sure that he can beat out Chris Simms.

epicSocialism4tw
04-06-2009, 11:05 AM
This type of reasoning should prove to whoever posted it that they are, in fact, prone to deluding themselves into believing anything they want.

Our QB's suck. Get used to it.

epicSocialism4tw
04-06-2009, 11:07 AM
Jake Plummer was talked as a potential MVP candidate in 05

It happens.....

Jake Plummer is thrice the QB that either of our scrubs are.

McD thinks that he's the Shanahan of QB's...that he can develop anyone. We'll see how that goes.

Spider
04-06-2009, 11:07 AM
This type of reasoning should prove to whoever posted it that they are, in fact, prone to deluding themselves into believing anything they want.

Our QB's suck. Get used to it.
LOL you ?? what happened in your last prediction with Basketball ? yeah thought so

skpac1001
04-06-2009, 11:08 AM
It will be interesting. Orton only threw the ball 465 times last year to Cutler's 600+.. And he still had 12 picks.. wait a minute..

Hey, if you add two picks that would be Cutler in 2007. 467 att. 14 picks. Then we upgraded the offensive line, WR's, and opened up the scheme. Wonder if that will help Orton also...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-06-2009, 11:08 AM
Jake Plummer is thrice the QB that either of our scrubs are.

McD thinks that he's the Shanahan of QB's...that he can develop anyone. We'll see how that goes.

And we were laughed at nationally for signing Plummer.

Perhaps you should withhold judgement until one of them takes a snap.

Br0nc0Buster
04-06-2009, 11:11 AM
I never offered my opinion on who I picked McDouche, I am just asking a question


If this bothers you, well you dont HAVE to post in it.

SportinOne
04-06-2009, 11:15 AM
It will be interesting. Orton only threw the ball 465 times last year to Cutler's 600+.. And he still had 12 picks.. wait a minute..

Okay, checked some numbers...

Cutler in 2008: 616 attempts, 18 interceptions
Orton in 2008: 465 attempts, 12 interceptions
Plummer in 2005: 521 attempts, 20 interceptions

SportinOne
04-06-2009, 11:16 AM
Hey, if you add two picks that would be Cutler in 2007. 467 att. 14 picks. Then we upgraded the offensive line, WR's, and opened up the scheme. Wonder if that will help Orton also...

Orton simply can't make the throws that Jay can. Running game will suffer. Wonder if that will help Orton.

Pony Boy
04-06-2009, 11:18 AM
The Broncos will be in the playoffs
The Bears will not

skpac1001
04-06-2009, 11:22 AM
Orton simply can't make the throws that Jay can. Running game will suffer. Wonder if that will help Orton.

Judging from the consistently high number of turnovers Jay generates, Jay shouldn't make the throws he does either.

epicSocialism4tw
04-06-2009, 11:22 AM
And we were laughed at nationally for signing Plummer.

Perhaps you should withhold judgement until one of them takes a snap.

We were laughed at for signing Plummer? Were you even alive then?

We outbid several teams for Plummer, the foremost of which was the Bears!

Kind of ironic, eh? We sign Plummer who becomes the 2nd best Denver Broncos QB in franchise history, we undercut him by drafting a QB to develop behind him, then he retires, then our golden boy draftee jumps ship and goes to where Plummer was within a nats butt of signing...and we're left with a Bubby Brister (Orton) and a Greise (Simms) to run the team.

Aw, swell!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-06-2009, 11:25 AM
We were laughed at for signing Plummer? Were you even alive then?

We outbid several teams for Plummer, the foremost of which was the Bears!

Kind of ironic, eh? We sign Plummer who becomes the 2nd best Denver Broncos QB in franchise history, we undercut him by drafting a QB to develop behind him, then he retires, then our golden boy draftee jumps ship and goes to where Plummer was within a nats butt of signing...and we're left with a Bubby Brister (Orton) and a Greise (Simms) to run the team.

Aw, swell!

Sure was alive then! I was born in '79, so... yes.

Several teams? One other team. The Bears.

And yes. Laughed at. Nationally. People could not understand why we'd get a guy who threw a ton of interceptions and never really showed anything resembling greatness in the desert.

The reaction was a lot like the Orton pickup, minus the anger about dismissing a bratty starter.

Spider
04-06-2009, 11:26 AM
Judging from the consistently high number of turnovers Jay generates, Jay shouldn't make the throws he does either.

LOL LOL LOL . ok thread done

epicSocialism4tw
04-06-2009, 11:30 AM
The reaction was a lot like the Orton pickup, minus the anger about dismissing a bratty starter.


No, it was nothing like the Orton "pick-up". Nothing at all.

Most Broncos fans were excited to get Plummer, who was an upgrade in talent and in competitiveness at the position. Also because Plummer reminded Broncos fans a little of Elway in his never-say-die attitude.

The "Orton pick-up" more like when the Mavericks decided to let go of Steve Nash because he didnt fit the cap, and because his salary could then be used on Erick Dampier instead.

In other words, a serious downgrade.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-06-2009, 11:36 AM
And it's still comparing apples to oranges. One was a FA signing. The other brought three picks including two first rounders to town. Addition by subtraction. Yes we lose a key player, but we have an opportunity to improve the entire team.

And yeah, Bronco fans were excited about Plummer while we were ripped in the national media for the move.

RMT
04-06-2009, 11:41 AM
One thing that Orton is far better at than Cutler is being a good TEAMMATE! His attitude is better than Cutler's EVER was. Urlacher said Orton was a GREAT teammate. And a player teammates will rally around. No one will ever say that about Cutler, especially now.

Kaylore
04-06-2009, 11:49 AM
I think Cutler, but I think it will be closer than people think.

Hotrod
04-06-2009, 11:59 AM
Cutler will have the stats and Orton will be in the middle of the pack.

Which is right where we need him to be.

Mogulseeker
04-06-2009, 11:59 AM
Jay is the better player... Orton will put up better stats.

Mogulseeker
04-06-2009, 12:01 PM
One thing that Orton is far better at than Cutler is being a good TEAMMATE! His attitude is better than Cutler's EVER was. Urlacher said Orton was a GREAT teammate. And a player teammates will rally around. No one will ever say that about Cutler, especially now.

That's something that has always been in the back of my mind since the trade whenever someone talks about intangibles, because Urlacher is definitley someone to listen to on the issues of leadership and being a team player.

Cito Pelon
04-06-2009, 12:05 PM
It will be interesting. Orton only threw the ball 465 times last year to Cutler's 600+.. And he still had 12 picks.. wait a minute..

2008 Orton had a 2.6% INT, Cutler a 2.9% INT.

Cito Pelon
04-06-2009, 12:12 PM
I think Orton will have the better stats. He's coming into his prime, I think he's off the bottle now, in better condition as I think he proved last year, and ready to grab the brass ring that's right there in front of him.

broncofan7
04-06-2009, 12:12 PM
Just as a fun hypothetical--what if Jake were to come out of retirement--Would Jake be favored to win the starting job in McD's scheme over Orton and Simms? Jake coming to Broncos HQ a month or so ago was bit strange no matter how you look at it--I wonder if they approached him at all in that regard.......

Rohirrim
04-06-2009, 12:12 PM
I'm sure the NBA fans on the board think Cutler will simply walk in and continue to play at the same level, but this ain't BBall. He's going to a worse offense with a much worse Oline. He's not going to be their savior. More likely, the savior will be Forte. Tough for the Bears because what they need the most is WRs and they just gave up the draft picks they need to get some.
Orton must feel like he's waking up on Christmas morning and seeing a pile of presents under the tree. All he has to do is manage the ball and not make stupid mistakes. Make the right reads, get it to the right guy, and watch them run. It's like asking; Orton is given the keys to an Aston Martin and Cutler gets the keys to a Jeep Cherokee. Are Cutler's superior driving skills going to allow the Jeep to beat the Aston Martin? Doubtful.

Broncos4tw
04-06-2009, 12:15 PM
Stats don't matter. Jay does have more natural talent, and imo, if the game is on the line, I'd much rather have him running the drive than Orton. But if the system is VERY solid, it may not matter much.

Jay is the better player though. And average QB can only get you so far. In the playoffs and SB, when you need a solid QB, we will have an average QB and a 'system.' If the system can be worked around, we're probably toast.

Jake, as much as I liked his attitude and desire to win, imo, would have NEVER won us a SB, ever. Not without a top 5 D to go along with his play.

Hotrod
04-06-2009, 12:27 PM
Just as a fun hypothetical--what if Jake were to come out of retirement--Would Jake be favored to win the starting job in McD's scheme over Orton and Simms? Jake coming to Broncos HQ a month or so ago was bit strange no matter how you look at it--I wonder if they approached him at all in that regard.......

Jake is the anti McD type of QB

Broncojef
04-06-2009, 12:43 PM
Our Qb with stats led us to 7-9 and 8-8 non-play-off seasons. I can live without stats...give me a hard working guy that will listen to coaching and a gameplan over the stats any day, lets build a team damn it. I wonder if Jay will still think its a dream come true when he sees his O-Line and the no talent WR corp. Well come to Chicago Jay where QBs and WRs go to die.

gyldenlove
04-06-2009, 12:45 PM
2008 Orton had a 2.6% INT, Cutler a 2.9% INT.

Orton had 150% more fumbles lost than Cutler in 2008.

Mogulseeker
04-06-2009, 12:47 PM
I think Orton will have the better stats. He's coming into his prime, I think he's off the bottle now, in better condition as I think he proved last year, and ready to grab the brass ring that's right there in front of him.

You forgot to put the Tags around that text

NFLBRONCO
04-06-2009, 12:53 PM
Cutler easily

Easy Schedule

Better D

Smiling Assassin27
04-06-2009, 12:54 PM
Statistics are for suckers. A better year statistically will never automaticallly tranlate into 'a better year'. The real question ought to be who can shotgun a pint of Johnnie Walker Red faster.

Steve Sewell
04-06-2009, 12:57 PM
The Broncos will be in the playoffs
The Bears will not

LOL some of you guys are so freakin' delusional.

RMT
04-06-2009, 01:01 PM
Cutler easily

Easy Schedule

Better D

easy schedule - yes
better d - probably

but as much as everyone chastises the broncos' D as being the reason to blame cutler's starting QB record of 17-20, the bears defense was #21 last year.

cutler will probably have a better year, but orton will be a definitely be a better teammate. he's already proven that.

Cito Pelon
04-06-2009, 01:07 PM
You forgot to put the Tags around that text

Nope.

Cito Pelon
04-06-2009, 01:12 PM
Statistics are for suckers. A better year statistically will never automaticallly tranlate into 'a better year'. The real question ought to be who can shotgun a pint of Johnnie Walker Red faster.

Or Cutty Sark.

Pony Boy
04-06-2009, 01:13 PM
LOL some of you guys are so freakin' delusional.

If you ask me next year, I will say the Broncos will be in the playoffs!
And the year after that and so on and so on. Thats what a fan does, I back my team.

baja
04-06-2009, 01:16 PM
Statistics are for suckers. A better year statistically will never automatically translate into 'a better year'. The real question ought to be who can shotgun a pint of Johnnie Walker Red faster.

Yet an even better question is which player will help his team more?

A gunslinger with no line and no receivers

or

a winner with the smarts to take what is given behind the best line in football and world class receivers & TDs

BTW I think our guy has a higher QB rating in 09.

Steve Sewell
04-06-2009, 01:19 PM
If you ask me next year, I will say the Broncos will be in the playoffs!
And the year after that and so on and so on. Thats what a fan does, I back my team.

My comment was more in reference to your position that the Bears won't be in the playoffs next year. They just got a whole lot better in an already weak division.

fdf
04-06-2009, 01:20 PM
I am not asking who is the better player.
I am asking statistically who do you think will have the better year between the two.

Obviously McDaniels sees something in Orton, and Orton is in a much better situation to succeed than Cutler. Orton has the superior Oline, recievers, and the running game is prolly around the same.

I expect Cutler to throw for more yards, but I think Orton will have the better TD/INT ratio.

I expect Cutler to win, but I am just curious how wide the margin is

Who knows or cares? All I care about is that the team field a good offense and start turning around a dreadful defense and win some games. The year after that, I care if we make the playoffs. I could care less if we do it with Orton in the pro-bowl.

OTOH, I would like to see Cutler get sacked a lot in Chicago so that he keeps remembering the OL he snubbed.

fdf
04-06-2009, 01:21 PM
Just as a fun hypothetical--what if Jake were to come out of retirement--Would Jake be favored to win the starting job in McD's scheme over Orton and Simms? Jake coming to Broncos HQ a month or so ago was bit strange no matter how you look at it--I wonder if they approached him at all in that regard.......

No. Jake made stupid decisions.

Cito Pelon
04-06-2009, 01:22 PM
Orton had 150% more fumbles lost than Cutler in 2008.

Was that a joke? Cutler was 5 fumbles, zero recovered, and Orton 6 fumbles, 1 recovered.

RMT
04-06-2009, 01:22 PM
Yet an even better question is which player will help his team more?

A gunslinger with no line and no receivers

or

a winner with the smarts to take what is given behind the best line in football and world class receivers & TDs

BTW I think our guy has a higher QB rating in 09.

definitely a higher IQ

DarkHorse30
04-06-2009, 01:23 PM
Judging from the consistently high number of turnovers Jay generates, Jay shouldn't make the throws he does either.

bingo. A gunslinger has to learn how to get himself out of the trouble he created. So far, Jay has not learned how to do that.

jutang
04-06-2009, 01:24 PM
Chicago has a much better team than Denver. Denver needs to rebuild in so many different areas. A better question is which QB is going find more success in 3-4 yrs from now.

RMT
04-06-2009, 01:25 PM
bingo. A gunslinger has to learn how to get himself out of the trouble he created. So far, Jay has not learned how to do that.

both on AND off the field. he is own worst enemy right now. until he realizes that and accepts SOME responsibility, he will continue to feel slighted and point the finger at everyone but himself.

Pony Boy
04-06-2009, 01:26 PM
My comment was more in reference to your position that the Bears won't be in the playoffs next year. They just got a whole lot better in an already weak division.

True, they did get a lot better, I just don't see them winning the division.
A quality wide receiver might put them on top, I can't believe they are not after Holt.

RMT
04-06-2009, 01:27 PM
Chicago has a much better team than Denver. Denver needs to rebuild in so many different areas. A better question is which QB is going find more success in 3-4 yrs from now.

"much better"? their defense was #21 last year - broncos were #29.

the broncos have better WRs, OLine, and believe it or not running game. chicago's advantage is that they have a solid RB in Forte. the broncos running game excelled in spite of the numerous injuries.

the biggest advantage the cutler and the bears have over the broncos this year is their pathetically weak schedule. people will need to keep that in mind when making references to the trade and the inevitable QB comparisons.

Spider
04-06-2009, 01:29 PM
Chicago has a much better team than Denver. Denver needs to rebuild in so many different areas. A better question is which QB is going find more success in 3-4 yrs from now.

what is this ? make **** up as you go hour ?

rastaman
04-06-2009, 01:35 PM
No, it was nothing like the Orton "pick-up". Nothing at all.

Most Broncos fans were excited to get Plummer, who was an upgrade in talent and in competitiveness at the position. Also because Plummer reminded Broncos fans a little of Elway in his never-say-die attitude.

The "Orton pick-up" more like when the Mavericks decided to let go of Steve Nash because he didnt fit the cap, and because his salary could then be used on Erick Dampier instead.

In other words, a serious downgrade.

Orton will more than likely put up "Steve Deberg" type numbers. Also, while Orton has Bmarsh, Royal, and Scheft(maybe), the running game under McDaniels new scheme may not be conducive to the abilities of the offensive linemen drafted by Shanahan. So Orton and the last years starter on the OL might struggle. Orton this year might be sacked more than Cutler was sacked last year. Last year under the Bronco zone blocking scheme, the RB's were taught to make one read, one cut, and run down hill, not sure what the running scheme will be under McDaniels. Cutler will currently have the more consistent running back, which will help him in the passing game.

jutang
04-06-2009, 01:53 PM
what is this ? make **** up as you go hour ?

Yeah-- I really think unit-wise, Chicago's a stronger team. Post Cutler trade.
QB - Chi
RB - Chi
WRs/TE - Den
OL - Den
DL - Chi
LB - Chi
DB/S - Den
ST - Chi

jutang
04-06-2009, 01:59 PM
"much better"? their defense was #21 last year - broncos were #29.

the broncos have better WRs, OLine, and believe it or not running game. chicago's advantage is that they have a solid RB in Forte. the broncos running game excelled in spite of the numerous injuries.

the biggest advantage the cutler and the bears have over the broncos this year is their pathetically weak schedule. people will need to keep that in mind when making references to the trade and the inevitable QB comparisons.

Although, the statistical difference isn't that great, the Bears offense was ranked #26 in yards. Just like the Broncos offense was hamstrung by it's defense, the Bears offense skewed the defense's numbers.

WolfpackGuy
04-06-2009, 02:01 PM
The Bears forced 32 turnovers while the Broncos only forced 13.
I don't think that stat can be overlooked when it comes to rankings.

RMT
04-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Was that a joke? Cutler was 5 fumbles, zero recovered, and Orton 6 fumbles, 1 recovered.

either that or a lame attempt at computing percentages (inaccurately, i might add).

RMT
04-06-2009, 02:07 PM
The Bears forced 32 turnovers while the Broncos only forced 13.
I don't think that stat can be overlooked when it comes to rankings.

that magnifies how overrated the bears defense was, too. to force 32 turnovers and still finish #21 ... their weak schedule will make the bears look like winners in the cutler sweepstakes.

colonelbeef
04-06-2009, 02:13 PM
The Bears forced 32 turnovers while the Broncos only forced 13.
I don't think that stat can be overlooked when it comes to rankings.

Nope, and more to your point, that is the type of stat that will make a QB look more effective (red zone scoring, tds, etc) than he really is, as the TO's compute to more possessions and better starting field position.

WolfpackGuy
04-06-2009, 02:38 PM
Any team would take more turnovers over yards given up.
At a closer look, the Broncos gave up 98 more points than the Bears.
And 40 more yards per game than the Bears.
That's 6 more points and 4 more first downs PER GAME.
I just made myself feel worse about last year's defense. As if that were possible.

Rohirrim
04-06-2009, 02:50 PM
Statistics are for suckers. A better year statistically will never automaticallly tranlate into 'a better year'. The real question ought to be who can shotgun a pint of Johnnie Walker Red faster.

From the pics I've seen Orton is a Jack Daniels man.

Cutler drinks (blech) Coors Light.

Just for that, I like Orton better.

Doggcow
04-06-2009, 03:00 PM
Okay, checked some numbers...

Cutler in 2008: 616 attempts, 18 interceptions
Orton in 2008: 465 attempts, 12 interceptions
Plummer in 2005: 521 attempts, 20 interceptions

So Orton has a better pass to int ratio too.

Doggcow
04-06-2009, 03:02 PM
either that or a lame attempt at computing percentages (inaccurately, i might add).

Not to mention it should include the 1 retard pop out that should have lost us the SD game.

colonelbeef
04-06-2009, 03:14 PM
Not to mention it should include the 1 retard pop out that should have lost us the SD game.

A win is a win, that wasn't the only play that affected that game. You don't hear Brady giving back the tuck rule game, do you

Cito Pelon
04-06-2009, 03:28 PM
The Bears forced 32 turnovers while the Broncos only forced 13.
I don't think that stat can be overlooked when it comes to rankings.

That's a good point. We'll have to see how it plays out. I wasn't impressed how Cutler took advantage of a short field last year in the rare opportunities. Some of that could have been the play-calls, trying to eek out seven plays where only two were needed.

colonelbeef
04-06-2009, 04:10 PM
Any team would take more turnovers over yards given up.
At a closer look, the Broncos gave up 98 more points than the Bears.
And 40 more yards per game than the Bears.
That's 6 more points and 4 more first downs PER GAME.
I just made myself feel worse about last year's defense. As if that were possible.


^5 Yikes! :flush: :garcia: