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View Full Version : Jarron Gilbert vs. Tyson Jackson


lex
04-05-2009, 09:19 PM
OK, I see a lot of people clamoring for Tyson Jackson. I just wanted to see if people really feel he's THAT much better than Jarron Gilbert.


Jarron Gilbert is an athletic freak. Also, his dad played offensive line in the NFL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwJrEOtk41M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK_SxTr4jZs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAqc85MT_-0


Tyson Jackson...solid and played against better competition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MeTrQ124Q

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f8d529

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f4aa52

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f5f335

PRBronco
04-05-2009, 10:00 PM
This is the blurb I read that turned me off Gilbert:
"Jarron Gilbert is a freakish athlete, but once he gets hit in the mouth, he shuts it down. He has a linear build. He's narrow hipped. He struggles to keep his feet in the ground. He's a little bit like Jeremy Thompson out of Wake Forest - he could have value in a 3-4 or a 4-3, but he may never be tough enough to make it"

Did I mention I love my new draft magazine? Anyways, after the abominations we've seen fielded in lieu of a defense over the last few years, I don't want anything to do with someone lacking toughness. Kind of why I've cooled on Ron Brace too, I've read "gentle giant" too many times in reference to him.

lex
04-05-2009, 10:07 PM
This is the blurb I read that turned me off Gilbert:
"Jarron Gilbert is a freakish athlete, but once he gets hit in the mouth, he shuts it down. He has a linear build. He's narrow hipped. He struggles to keep his feet in the ground. He's a little bit like Jeremy Thompson out of Wake Forest - he could have value in a 3-4 or a 4-3, but he may never be tough enough to make it"

Did I mention I love my new draft magazine? Anyways, after the abominations we've seen fielded in lieu of a defense over the last few years, I don't want anything to do with someone lacking toughness. Kind of why I've cooled on Ron Brace too, I've read "gentle giant" too many times in reference to him.

Is that a draft guide? A lot of them are a little old. In that respect they can be good since theyre based more on game film and not workouts though.

Yeah, Ive cooled off on using a high pick on defensive tackle. Id rather get one next year, namely Mt. Cody. DTs seem to be a little stronger next year.

BroncoMan4ever
04-05-2009, 10:17 PM
Is that a draft guide? A lot of them are a little old. In that respect they can be good since theyre based more on game film and not workouts though.

Yeah, Ive cooled off on using a high pick on defensive tackle. Id rather get one next year, namely Mt. Cody. DTs seem to be a little stronger next year.

everything seems stronger next season. this is a weak draft in my opinion

PRBronco
04-05-2009, 10:27 PM
Is that a draft guide? A lot of them are a little old. In that respect they can be good since theyre based more on game film and not workouts though.

Yeah, Ive cooled off on using a high pick on defensive tackle. Id rather get one next year, namely Mt. Cody. DTs seem to be a little stronger next year.

Yeah it's an "Audible" from PFW's draft guide, post combine edition.

skpac1001
04-05-2009, 11:00 PM
Good question. Gilbert is an inch taller, with freakishly long arms (just shy of 37" I think) and nice hops, so he could affect throwing lanes much more, knock down some passes. I think he has much more upside as a pass rusher also, and might be more flexible in different fronts. He is extremely strong in the weight room too. Physically and athletically I think he is much better, and has much much more upside. But he is raw and unproven and would be a project and I don't know if we can afford a project DE right now. Jackson is pretty much ready to go, but probably won't ever be much more the Marcus Spears.

lex
04-05-2009, 11:33 PM
everything seems stronger next season. this is a weak draft in my opinion

I think C and OLB are better this year...and also maybe RB.

cutthemdown
04-06-2009, 01:48 AM
This is the blurb I read that turned me off Gilbert:
"Jarron Gilbert is a freakish athlete, but once he gets hit in the mouth, he shuts it down. He has a linear build. He's narrow hipped. He struggles to keep his feet in the ground. He's a little bit like Jeremy Thompson out of Wake Forest - he could have value in a 3-4 or a 4-3, but he may never be tough enough to make it"

Did I mention I love my new draft magazine? Anyways, after the abominations we've seen fielded in lieu of a defense over the last few years, I don't want anything to do with someone lacking toughness. Kind of why I've cooled on Ron Brace too, I've read "gentle giant" too many times in reference to him.

yeah that would worry me also. We need punch you in the mouth physical players and should not get swayed by athletic guys that aren't tough.

Look for some real maulers with good size.

cutthemdown
04-06-2009, 01:53 AM
I think C and OLB are better this year...and also maybe RB.

I know people would not think is was sexy. But Mack the center out of Cal wouldn't look bad in Orange and Blue. I know I know we need defense.

Maybe we could trade down a few spots from the 18th pick, grab an extra fourth or something, and take Mack like in the late 20's.

I agree though linebacker seems deep but 12 maybe too early for most of them.

lex
04-06-2009, 02:15 AM
I know people would not think is was sexy. But Mack the center out of Cal wouldn't look bad in Orange and Blue. I know I know we need defense.

Maybe we could trade down a few spots from the 18th pick, grab an extra fourth or something, and take Mack like in the late 20's.

I agree though linebacker seems deep but 12 maybe too early for most of them.

Yeah, what bodes well for us is that with the # of LBs out there, a decent one is bound to fall to us at 48. BTW, has Tyson Jackson been in for a visit?

Broncoman13
04-06-2009, 06:48 AM
I know people would not think is was sexy. But Mack the center out of Cal wouldn't look bad in Orange and Blue. I know I know we need defense.

Maybe we could trade down a few spots from the 18th pick, grab an extra fourth or something, and take Mack like in the late 20's.

I agree though linebacker seems deep but 12 maybe too early for most of them.

I'd prefer Unger. He can be groomed for Center in the future and back up every OL position including LT. That's some outstanding versatility and a promising future Center. I like Alex Mack as well, but if I'm going to take a chance and wait a year or two on somebody, I'd prefer he be capable of playing multiple positions.

As for the thread title, I like both Gilbert and Jackson. The more I read on Jackson the more I like him. He's not a flashy guy, he just gets the job done. I think that is going to be something McD likes. He doesn't need the bell's and whistles, just the energy and love for the game. I also think that is why he will ultimately end up liking guys such as Knowshon Moreno, Mark Sanchez, and Percy Harvin. These are guys that are all about doing the little things, playing through injuries, and getting in the gym to make themselves stronger. Take a look at Percy Harvin two years ago and then take a look at him last year. I'd guess he has gained 15-20 lbs and it's especially noticeable in his arms and neck.

Broncoman13
04-06-2009, 06:51 AM
Yeah, what bodes well for us is that with the # of LBs out there, a decent one is bound to fall to us at 48. BTW, has Tyson Jackson been in for a visit?

Not sure how many possibilities there will be at 48 for LB. Maybe Michael Johnson falls that far?

What I do know is we can expect a pass rusher in the first round. I firmly believe Orakpo will be the choice if we can find a dance partner in the top 10 AND he slides a little bit. That is, if he falls to say #8, I can see the Broncos making a deal to get up there and grab him. Other than Orakpo, the Broncos could consider Brown, Barwin, Mathews, and Maybin in the 12 or 18 slots. I'd bet one of those guys will be selected... unless we have a ton of faith in Doom and Moss.

Traveler
04-06-2009, 06:51 AM
Last I heard, Jackson was falling down on serveral mocks because of his less than impressive workouts. Some say he could fall completely out the 1st round.

Drek
04-06-2009, 08:43 AM
Yeah, what bodes well for us is that with the # of LBs out there, a decent one is bound to fall to us at 48. BTW, has Tyson Jackson been in for a visit?

Yep, Peter King mentioned him visiting in his latest article on the trade.

I don't want either one in the first, if Jackson slides to #48 then sure, but a 5-tech isn't worth a 1st round pick unless he plays like Richard Seymour. Lot of good 5-tech prospects later in this draft.

Mediator12
04-06-2009, 09:23 AM
Gilbert has been so damned inconsistent even against marginal competition that he was rarely ever double teamed in college, yet he never really dominated one on one against players who could only dream of getting into a NFL camp. If you draft him, you draft him entirely on upside and HOPE the light comes on to motivate him to play to his physical abilities. Personally, I do not draft those players before the fifth round and I bet some team would draft him much higher than that based on his measurables.

Jackson is just a stout defender who played 3 and a half years as a starter in the SEC for a team loaded with DL talent. He played when guys were pushing to play behind him, and he played with first round draft picks beside him. He will be a plug and play 4-3 LDE or 5 tech DE in a 3-4. He will start from day one and play well. He will not be a star ever in the NFL, because he can not rush the passer from the outside. However, I think he could be a solid Nickle pass rusher inside @ DT and provide additional value there.

In short, I think you get a ready to go three down Starting DL with Jackson. A guy who will be playing all day on sundays and making an immediate impact on your DL. I think you get a tremendously risky DL in Gilbert, who would need to be developed right away and may never impact in the wrong scheme in the NFL, if he ever reaches the potential he shows athletically. Mentally, Gilbert scares me. He should have been just kicking ass and taking names last year. Instead, he improved as the year went on, made some splash plays here and there, and just tempts Scouts with all that ability. He would have to prove to me he would have better motivation to play in the NFL than he does right now before I would draft him where he is likely to go.

People think you have to have a bona fide pass rusher to select a guy on the DL @ 12. I think that is not as important as getting an everydown player who will immedaitely raise the level of the whole DL by doing the little things like holding at the POA every play and then being solid in pushing the pocket if necessary. Jackson has value to teams like DEN at 12 because he immediately makes the DL that much better. Unless Orakpo is there at 12, Jackson would be a great selection to me.

BroncoInferno
04-06-2009, 10:08 AM
Gilbert has more upside, but Jackson is the safe pick to me. He won't be a star most likely, but he's one of those lunch pail guys who will get the job done. Conventional wisdom would seem to be the more picks you have, the more risks you can take. In our case, I disagree with that. Given the trade we just made, it is extremely important that we get value with our picks and not take too many chances. Jackson is one of the safer picks out there.

Personally, I think we need to play it safe in round one. Go Jackson at #12, then take Moreno at #18. I think both of those guys are pretty safe bets, at least compared to a lot of guys in this draft.

lex
04-06-2009, 10:57 AM
Yep, Peter King mentioned him visiting in his latest article on the trade.

I don't want either one in the first, if Jackson slides to #48 then sure, but a 5-tech isn't worth a 1st round pick unless he plays like Richard Seymour. Lot of good 5-tech prospects later in this draft.


Yeah, I saw that thread too. I hear what youre saying about a 5 tech but, Im kind of wary on Raji...I actually think Id rather draft someone like Hill, Taylor, or Scott and then go all in for Cody next year. The two most important positions in the 3-4 are NT and rush LB. We may already have that in Doom, plus there are enough rush LBs that there is a good chance one is there at 48. With that in mind, I wouldnt mind taking a C or a DE with our 2nd 1st.

NFLBRONCO
04-06-2009, 02:38 PM
everything seems stronger next season. this is a weak draft in my opinion

Shouldn't we definately trade down and stockpile 2010 draft picks then? Should we trade #18 for 2010 #1 and a 2nd or 3rd this year?

HILife
04-06-2009, 03:19 PM
I think C and OLB are better this year...and also maybe RB.

WHAT? Last years RB classes was one of the best I've seen in a long time. They had talent in just about every round.

BroncoInferno
04-06-2009, 03:22 PM
Shouldn't we definately trade down and stockpile 2010 draft picks then? Should we trade #18 for 2010 #1 and a 2nd or 3rd this year?

We might be in a good spot to pick up an extra #1 next year, come to think of it. The rumor is that Tampa Bay really likes QB Josh Freeman at #19. Sitting with the #18 pick right in front of them, some other team that covets Freeman might want to jump in front of them.

lex
04-06-2009, 03:30 PM
WHAT? Last years RB classes was one of the best I've seen in a long time. They had talent in just about every round.

Last years class isnt relevant to what was being discussed. We were talking about this year vs. next year.

Bronco Boy
04-06-2009, 03:55 PM
Gilbert seems like prime bust material to me.

misturanderson
04-07-2009, 12:26 PM
Yeah, I saw that thread too. I hear what youre saying about a 5 tech but, Im kind of wary on Raji...I actually think Id rather draft someone like Hill, Taylor, or Scott and then go all in for Cody next year. The two most important positions in the 3-4 are NT and rush LB. We may already have that in Doom, plus there are enough rush LBs that there is a good chance one is there at 48. With that in mind, I wouldnt mind taking a C or a DE with our 2nd 1st.

And everybody thought we would need a top-10 pick to get William Moore this year and that this year's safety class was way better than last year's. Now we have only one safety that might be projected to the 1st-round.

Basing what you draft this year on what you could potentially get next year is beyond foolish. If the front office thinks that Raji could play on our team at a high level, then you take him if he's avaiable, but you don't pass on him because you think Terrance Cody would be better next year. He could have a sub-par year or tear up his knee or any number of things that you can't perdict. That is just a terrible way to look at drafting.

Now if the front office thinks Raji doesn't fit what they are trying to do, then by all means pass on him, but don't base it on next year's draft class.

lex
04-07-2009, 12:37 PM
And everybody thought we would need a top-10 pick to get William Moore this year and that this year's safety class was way better than last year's. Now we have only one safety that might be projected to the 1st-round.

Basing what you draft this year on what you could potentially get next year is beyond foolish. If the front office thinks that Raji could play on our team at a high level, then you take him if he's avaiable, but you don't pass on him because you think Terrance Cody would be better next year. He could have a sub-par year or tear up his knee or any number of things that you can't perdict. That is just a terrible way to look at drafting.

Now if the front office thinks Raji doesn't fit what they are trying to do, then by all means pass on him, but don't base it on next year's draft class.

When a guy pisses hot though and theres really not another first round talent, you look at Brace and wonder if he would still be a 2nd if Cody, McCoy, Oghobaase,... were in the draft. I actually think what youre describing with Moore, is good in a lot of cases. In general, too much is based on a players last year. If a guy has a solid career but then has a down year, what is more reflective of what he's all about? Its case specific but it leads to guys being undervalued. Take Dorrell Scott for example, he had a solid career with last year not up to what he had done before. Did he suddenly become a scrub? With that idea in mind, you can look at someone like Oghobaase and ask yourself if your comfortable with what he has done to this point and in the event that he has a down year, you could maybe look at him rather than following the herd and going for someone like Balmer.

Drek
04-07-2009, 06:41 PM
Yeah, I saw that thread too. I hear what youre saying about a 5 tech but, Im kind of wary on Raji...I actually think Id rather draft someone like Hill, Taylor, or Scott and then go all in for Cody next year. The two most important positions in the 3-4 are NT and rush LB. We may already have that in Doom, plus there are enough rush LBs that there is a good chance one is there at 48. With that in mind, I wouldnt mind taking a C or a DE with our 2nd 1st.

I got no problems taking Raji at #12. I wouldn't want to trade up after him, but at #12 he's great value.

I put no stock in him supposedly testing positive because most of these leaks (like Cushing and Matthews) have been debunked by the NFL's drug program supervisor.

Raji is the perfect piece if we're going to run a hybrid defense, which I think Nolan wants to do. If he wants to run a traditional 3-4 though? Yeah he's an overpay, wait for Brace, Scott, or Taylor in later rounds.

lex
04-08-2009, 04:47 AM
I got no problems taking Raji at #12. I wouldn't want to trade up after him, but at #12 he's great value.

I put no stock in him supposedly testing positive because most of these leaks (like Cushing and Matthews) have been debunked by the NFL's drug program supervisor.

Raji is the perfect piece if we're going to run a hybrid defense, which I think Nolan wants to do. If he wants to run a traditional 3-4 though? Yeah he's an overpay, wait for Brace, Scott, or Taylor in later rounds.

If he is clean then that changes things. If he pisses hot though, forget it. Too much money for a guy with a strike against him.