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View Full Version : Broncos in a Position to Deal?


mattob14
04-03-2009, 04:26 PM
With picks #12 and #18, and a strong OT class, I think the Broncos are in a great position to deal down, if they choose to.

At #12, they're immediately in front of the Redskins, and there may only be one of the top OT's available. I could see a team like Philly or Detroit trying to move up to #12 for either Oher or Smith, whoever drops.

If a deal isn't made at #12, at #18 they'd be right in front of Detroit, Philly, and Minnesota at #20, #21, and #22. Any of those three teams could grab an OT like Britton and may be willing to trade up to get him. We could potentially pick up an extra 3rd and only move down 3-4 spots in that scenario.

In either scenario, I think Denver's picks fall in the right spot and could bring pretty good value in trade.

chaz
04-03-2009, 04:35 PM
18 is also right in front of tampa in case a team falls in love with Freeman

mattob14
04-03-2009, 05:00 PM
18 is also right in front of tampa in case a team falls in love with Freeman

Yes sir!

NFLBRONCO
04-03-2009, 05:11 PM
Trade down Josh

broncofan7
04-03-2009, 05:15 PM
Unless Raji or Crabtree(yes a WR) falls to #12--I really don't see our needs being filled by someone who warrants beign drafted @ #12. Tyson Jackson? High teens, low 20's IMHO. If we do stay at 12 and Raji and Crabtree are gone--perhaps an edge rusher like the guy from FSU Everette Browne would be a good choice....but I like the thought of trading down.......

Rohirrim
04-03-2009, 05:52 PM
Unless Raji or Crabtree(yes a WR) falls to #12--I really don't see our needs being filled by someone who warrants beign drafted @ #12. Tyson Jackson? High teens, low 20's IMHO. If we do stay at 12 and Raji and Crabtree are gone--perhaps an edge rusher like the guy from FSU Everette Browne would be a good choice....but I like the thought of trading down.......

Isn't Everett Brown pretty much a carbon copy of Jarvis Moss? Maybe we should see if Jarvis can play OLB first?

Hercules Rockefeller
04-03-2009, 06:14 PM
12 is a great spot if Stafford goes 1st overall to Detroit. Might hold true if Sanchez is somehow there too, since it came out the Skins have been trying to move Campbell for almost a year.

BroncoMan4ever
04-03-2009, 08:48 PM
Unless Raji or Crabtree(yes a WR) falls to #12--I really don't see our needs being filled by someone who warrants beign drafted @ #12. Tyson Jackson? High teens, low 20's IMHO. If we do stay at 12 and Raji and Crabtree are gone--perhaps an edge rusher like the guy from FSU Everette Browne would be a good choice....but I like the thought of trading down.......

Wells. with Orton we are going to need a legit rushing threat to help him carry the load.

when we had our running game working good last year, with Hillis, we looked better across the board, not just offensively. If Hillis isn't going to be the man, we need a guy who will be, and Wells at 12 would be a really good pick

Br0nc0Buster
04-03-2009, 08:53 PM
Isn't Everett Brown pretty much a carbon copy of Jarvis Moss? Maybe we should see if Jarvis can play OLB first?

Well I am not a draft expert, but unlike Jarvis I believe Brown has some pass rush moves and understands technique

Rohirrim
04-03-2009, 09:15 PM
Well I am not a draft expert, but unlike Jarvis I believe Brown has some pass rush moves and understands technique

But Jarvis has the thing you can't coach: Speed. I'm still looking forward to him getting a shot as an OLB in a Nolan D.

Br0nc0Buster
04-03-2009, 09:25 PM
But Jarvis has the thing you can't coach: Speed. I'm still looking forward to him getting a shot as an OLB in a Nolan D.

Well thats what they say, I have yet to see it though

SouthStndJunkie
04-03-2009, 10:03 PM
I don't think we trade down unless we get an unbelievable offer....at some point and time we need to get the best players we can get.

We have 10 picks in this draft and are loaded next year....in addition to all the young players we already have on the roster.

BroncoMan4ever
04-03-2009, 10:28 PM
But Jarvis has the thing you can't coach: Speed. I'm still looking forward to him getting a shot as an OLB in a Nolan D.

i don't buy Moss' speed. at the combine Crowder was just as fast, if not a little faster and yet people continually credit Moss with speed and Crowder as being slow.

Broncojef
04-04-2009, 06:00 AM
I don't think we trade down unless we get an unbelievable offer....at some point and time we need to get the best players we can get.

We have 10 picks in this draft and are loaded next year....in addition to all the young players we already have on the roster.

Couldn't agree more target the guys you really want and trade up if you must to get them. I'd rather have 3-4 guys we really want than 10-12 bodies who may never produce.

Elway777
04-04-2009, 06:09 AM
I think the Broncos trade up with Jacksonville with one of our 3 rounder. The Broncos draft Raji , Orakpo, Smith , or Sanchez in that order.
The 18 pick take Wells,Jackson or Barwin.
They can get the 3 rounder back if they trade Scheffer.
The Broncos pass on a Ted Linebacker because they target McCain or Spikes in next years draft.

Broncos_OTM
04-04-2009, 06:17 AM
But Jarvis has the thing you can't coach: Speed. I'm still looking forward to him getting a shot as an OLB in a Nolan D.

Everette brown and jarvis moss speed are two differant things. look at Brown and his explosion off the ball then go back an dlook at moss creep off the line.

Broncos_OTM
04-04-2009, 06:17 AM
i don't buy Moss' speed. at the combine Crowder was just as fast, if not a little faster and yet people continually credit Moss with speed and Crowder as being slow.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. you are correct.

Rohirrim
04-04-2009, 06:45 AM
i don't buy Moss' speed. at the combine Crowder was just as fast, if not a little faster and yet people continually credit Moss with speed and Crowder as being slow.

He sure had it at Florida. I don't think we should give up on him yet. Supposedly, the leg is giving him no more problems and he should be playing in a setup that will allow him to perform much better. I figure there's got to be a reason Nolan didn't just come in and cut him. Anyway, I was very impressed with him at Florida so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Mediator12
04-04-2009, 07:30 AM
Isn't Everett Brown pretty much a carbon copy of Jarvis Moss? Maybe we should see if Jarvis can play OLB first?

Everette is not similar to Jarvis at all. Everette is much more compact and powerful, was twice as productive at FSU despite not having the talent around him, and is more adept mentally coming out.

I really liked Moss coming out because he had the upside only one other DE in that draft had, and that was Gaines Adams. What has happened to Moss is why First round talent fails in the NFL:

1. He got injured, not surprisingly his rookie year.

2. He got worthless coaching to develop as a player.

3. They have changed defensive schemes each year he has been in DEN.

4. He has not mentally progressed like he should, But he also has not recovered fully physically yet either.

He has four strikes right now. However, he did have the rare hip fluidity to play 3-4 OLB when he did his drills at the combine. He was one of 3 guys I marked as a possible switch to OLB that year. The biggest problem IMHO is still getting him mentally ready to be a 3-4 OLB and then keeping him healthy.

Rohirrim
04-04-2009, 07:59 AM
Everette is not similar to Jarvis at all. Everette is much more compact and powerful, was twice as productive at FSU despite not having the talent around him, and is more adept mentally coming out.

I really liked Moss coming out because he had the upside only one other DE in that draft had, and that was Gaines Adams. What has happened to Moss is why First round talent fails in the NFL:

1. He got injured, not surprisingly his rookie year.

2. He got worthless coaching to develop as a player.

3. They have changed defensive schemes each year he has been in DEN.

4. He has not mentally progressed like he should, But he also has not recovered fully physically yet either.

He has four strikes right now. However, he did have the rare hip fluidity to play 3-4 OLB when he did his drills at the combine. He was one of 3 guys I marked as a possible switch to OLB that year. The biggest problem IMHO is still getting him mentally ready to be a 3-4 OLB and then keeping him healthy.

You've got to like Jarvis's 6'6" over Everett's 6'2" at that position. I doubt we're going to get the top DT out of this draft that we want. I wouldn't spend a #12 on a player I had any questions about (Raji) and there is nobody else at that level of value. Hopefully, Fields and Parker can hold the fort for a season and we can get a good backup in later rounds. I still have high hopes for Carlton Powell. Who knows, maybe that spot is already taken care of and we don't know about it yet? We'll find out at camp. That makes the SOLB the premier spot to fill. I'm convinced the Bronco's first pick will be a LB, or in Brown's case, a switch to LB, although a damn good argument could be made for trading down in this draft, given the positions the Broncos need to fill (maybe make a deal for the Eagles two picks and you have #18, 21, and 28 - a lot of value in those spots). Tough decisions for the team. Nolan will have to make his decision on Jarvis with probably less information than he would like. I can definitely see where Brown could be the pick at 12 (if he's there). I would be shocked if that pick isn't used either to trade down, or fill a spot in the front seven.

Drek
04-04-2009, 09:49 AM
I really like the position our draft picks now have us in. If Freeman and/or Sanchez slide to the middle of the first and the Jets pass we could have #18 spark a little bidding frenzy between the Bucs, Lions, and Vikings. I'd be real happy to see moving back just a couple spots like that netting us a '10 2nd or 3rd.

#12 could be a good position to bargain with as well. I prefer the talent in the late teens/early 20's back to the mid-3rd in this draft, so if we can deal it for a pick at the front of that group and another somewhere in the middle, maybe even a later round 2010 to grease the wheels, I'd be pleased.

I'm hoping for an active draft that sees us moving up and down the board as needed to maximize value, not a static make your picks no matter how much value you leave on the table style like Shanahan employed here for quite some time.

Everette is not similar to Jarvis at all. Everette is much more compact and powerful, was twice as productive at FSU despite not having the talent around him, and is more adept mentally coming out.

I really liked Moss coming out because he had the upside only one other DE in that draft had, and that was Gaines Adams. What has happened to Moss is why First round talent fails in the NFL:

1. He got injured, not surprisingly his rookie year.

2. He got worthless coaching to develop as a player.

3. They have changed defensive schemes each year he has been in DEN.

4. He has not mentally progressed like he should, But he also has not recovered fully physically yet either.

He has four strikes right now. However, he did have the rare hip fluidity to play 3-4 OLB when he did his drills at the combine. He was one of 3 guys I marked as a possible switch to OLB that year. The biggest problem IMHO is still getting him mentally ready to be a 3-4 OLB and then keeping him healthy.
Pretty much nailed it Med.

The speed people referred to with Moss in '07 was his rare hip fluidity and lateral movement skills. He's got a big frame but when healthy in college he danced around OTs like you had Shawn Bradley trying to guard LaBron James. He could throw sudden moves at them that would let him slip by untouched to reach the QB.

That raw talent doesn't work in the NFL, because NFL OTs don't get faked out nearly that easily, and even when they do they're much less likely to take themselves totally out of a play. As soon as OTs got their hands on Moss he had no moves with which to disengage.

Last year was like taking a Spanish bull fighter who just healed after a broken leg and asking him to wrestle the bull instead of evade it.

Kaylore
04-04-2009, 09:56 AM
Trade down Josh

Word that! TRADE DOWWWWWNNN!!!

mattob14
04-04-2009, 10:20 AM
I don't think we trade down unless we get an unbelievable offer....at some point and time we need to get the best players we can get.

We have 10 picks in this draft and are loaded next year....in addition to all the young players we already have on the roster.

That's my problem with #12 though, I don't see the talent difference between that pick and, say, #21. Raji will likely be gone, unless the positive drug test is true. In that case, I'm not sure I want him anyway. I don't want to spend #12 on Beanie, #18 maybe. What does that leave? Cushing? Overrated, with a very low ceiling. I'd much rather have Barwin, Johnson, or English than Cush, and all three of them will likely be available at #20 or 21. Jenkins isn't bad, but we really need to focus on the front-7, not another DB. Jackson's probably the best pick there, but I'm not convinced we can't pick him up at #18. I'm not interested in adding more picks this year, but just positioning the picks we have from the 20's through the mid-3rd, where the true value should fall.

mattob14
04-04-2009, 10:26 AM
I really like the position our draft picks now have us in. If Freeman and/or Sanchez slide to the middle of the first and the Jets pass we could have #18 spark a little bidding frenzy between the Bucs, Lions, and Vikings. I'd be real happy to see moving back just a couple spots like that netting us a '10 2nd or 3rd.

#12 could be a good position to bargain with as well. I prefer the talent in the late teens/early 20's back to the mid-3rd in this draft, so if we can deal it for a pick at the front of that group and another somewhere in the middle, maybe even a later round 2010 to grease the wheels, I'd be pleased.

I'm hoping for an active draft that sees us moving up and down the board as needed to maximize value, not a static make your picks no matter how much value you leave on the table style like Shanahan employed here for quite some time.

The move from #18 is exactly what I was thinking. If we can move down 2-3 spots, we can probably add a free 2010 pick and still get our guy. We could set up 2010 with 2 1sts, 2 3rds, and 2 5ths (after the Holland trade) before we even complete the 2009 draft. We don't need 10 more picks next year, but we could target 5 or 6 players and have the ammunition to get all of them.

NFLBRONCO
04-04-2009, 10:30 AM
I'd love to address these positions in 09 (First 3 rounds).



DE DT ILB OLB RB S WR

So we need to aquire 2 more picks to get it done.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-04-2009, 10:33 AM
I'm hoping Stafford goes 1st Overall, and the Lions want to get ahead of the Skins to get their tackle too.

p7superfly
04-04-2009, 10:42 AM
#12 we'll be able to grab whoever slips -- Could be Sanchez, Crabtree, Raji or an elite hybrid edge guy.

#12 is perfect. Someone amazing will slip - like Clady last year. I want to see Tackles go left and right in front of us.

Rohirrim
04-04-2009, 10:55 AM
I'm hoping Stafford goes 1st Overall, and the Lions want to get ahead of the Skins to get their tackle too.

Bingo. And we get their 20 and 33.

18. Knowshon Moreno, RB
20. Clay Matthews, LB
33. Max Unger, Olineman
48. Patrick Chung, S

or

18. Robert Ayers, DE
20. Rey Maualuga, ILB
33. Donald Brown, RB
48. William Moore, S/CB

It opens up a lot more options.

p7superfly
04-04-2009, 11:47 AM
I don't think moving up 8 spots costs the highest pick in the second round.

On those point charts what do 20 and 33 add up to?

I still think that with patience - we should be able to grab the last 'cream of the crop' guy at 12. A good possibility is the Lions go QB at 1, and the 49ers go QB at 10. Lots of tackles in there, and we should have a couple super-elite prospects to look at. Probably some amazing edge rushers, and a 'top of the draft talent' that slips.

mattob14
04-04-2009, 12:00 PM
I don't think moving up 8 spots costs the highest pick in the second round.

On those point charts what do 20 and 33 add up to?

I still think that with patience - we should be able to grab the last 'cream of the crop' guy at 12. A good possibility is the Lions go QB at 1, and the 49ers go QB at 10. Lots of tackles in there, and we should have a couple super-elite prospects to look at. Probably some amazing edge rushers, and a 'top of the draft talent' that slips.

I don't think there are a couple of "super-elite" prospects in the whole draft, let alone at #12. Raji was a questionable fit at NT to begin with, now it looks like he has a failed drug test to his credit. Crabtree will likely be gone. Amazing edge rushers? Brown and Orakpo both have questions marks, I'm not sure either is clearly a better option than Doom/Moss right now. The top of the draft this year is pretty weak, let's focus on maximizing value in the late-1st to mid-3rd range.

27atwater
04-04-2009, 12:02 PM
There are only 4-5 defensive players projected in or around where our picks are, and thru the rest of round 1, that I think are NEEDS for us. Pass rushing OLB isn't on the list. Raji will be long gone. IMHO, they are:

1-Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU. He is the only true 3-4 DE anywhere near the top and we don't have any to speak of who could play 3-4 AND 4-3/Nickel if needed.

2-Clint Sintim, OLB, Virginia. I think Moss and/or Elvis are clones of the current college DEs who would convert to pass rushing 3-4 OLB. Why not see what we have w/ them?

3-Rey Maulauga, ILB, USC. Now I don't necessarily want him, but do realize he fills a need. We are soft at ILB and there is no guarantee DJ doesn't get moved outside.

4/5-Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State/Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois. We need CB help. Our FA additions in the secondary aren't ideal and Champ is aging. I prefer we go front 7, but we could use a CB as well.

That being said, some of the guys on this list could be had a bit later on than 18. Tyson Jackson is the guy I wouldn't wanna lose out on, so I'd take him at 12. After that, I'd gladly give the #18, Scheffler and a 3rd to Philly for #21 and #28. We could likely still land Sintim at #21 and then hope Davis would still be there at 28.

Rohirrim
04-04-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't think moving up 8 spots costs the highest pick in the second round.

On those point charts what do 20 and 33 add up to?

I still think that with patience - we should be able to grab the last 'cream of the crop' guy at 12. A good possibility is the Lions go QB at 1, and the 49ers go QB at 10. Lots of tackles in there, and we should have a couple super-elite prospects to look at. Probably some amazing edge rushers, and a 'top of the draft talent' that slips.

The 20 and 33 add up to a little over 1400 and the #12 pick is worth about 1200. But on draft day, some teams get a little crazy. ;D