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View Full Version : Picks 12, 18, 48, 79 and 84 on the first day. How can you not be excited?


telluride
04-03-2009, 02:09 PM
Call me an optimist, but I'm pretty stoked about things right now. We could land five new starters for the defense, and still nab a late-round RB or WR. And even with all that, we get 2 first rounders next year to maneuver for a QB if we decide we need one. Ten new impact players on the roster within the next two years? Yep, I think that's possible.

Pretty exciting.

Man-Goblin
04-03-2009, 02:12 PM
Actually, it's picks 12, 18 and 48 on the first day. But I feel ya, my man!

lex
04-03-2009, 02:12 PM
Call me an optimist, but I'm pretty stoked about things right now. We could land five new starters for the defense, and still nab a late-round RB or WR. And even with all that, we get 2 first rounders next year to maneuver for a QB if we decide we need one. Ten new impact players on the roster within the next two years? Yep, I think that's possible.

Pretty exciting.

The first day is two rounds.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-03-2009, 02:12 PM
Dont be surprised to see another 3rd rounder come in for scheffler

Bronx33
04-03-2009, 02:14 PM
If they are smart about it we could be sitting pretty.

JCMElway
04-03-2009, 02:16 PM
Ah. The first day used to be three rounds until last year.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-03-2009, 02:19 PM
Call me an optimist, but I'm pretty stoked about things right now. We could land five new starters for the defense, and still nab a late-round RB or WR. And even with all that, we get 2 first rounders next year to maneuver for a QB if we decide we need one. Ten new impact players on the roster within the next two years? Yep, I think that's possible.

Pretty exciting.

you're really asking this question. we just lost our franchise qb. let me ask you how many franchise qb are there out there.

Man-Goblin
04-03-2009, 02:19 PM
Dont be surprised to see another 3rd rounder come in for scheffler

If the market for Winslow and Shockey is a 2nd, I don't know if you get a 3rd for Scheffler. Maybe if it's in 2010 which is a good possibility.

Paladin
04-03-2009, 02:23 PM
you're really asking this question. we just lost our franchise qb. let me ask you how many franchise qb are there out there.

"We" didn't lose him. He's right over here in Chicago. He's been found!!!!!

BroncoMan4ever
04-03-2009, 02:26 PM
Call me an optimist, but I'm pretty stoked about things right now. We could land five new starters for the defense, and still nab a late-round RB or WR. And even with all that, we get 2 first rounders next year to maneuver for a QB if we decide we need one. Ten new impact players on the roster within the next two years? Yep, I think that's possible.

Pretty exciting.

i am telling you, don't be surprised if we take Wells in the 1st.

in fact i would bet that we will take a RB on day 1.

SoDak Bronco
04-03-2009, 02:29 PM
#12) Everette Brown - DE Fla St
#18) Tyson Jackson - DE LSU
#48) Patrick Chung - S Oregon
#79) Eric Wood - C Louisville
#84) Donald Brown- RB Uconn

epicSocialism4tw
04-03-2009, 02:30 PM
you're really asking this question. we just lost our franchise qb. let me ask you how many franchise qb are there out there.

Ha!

He's excited at the possibilities of maybe getting a player close to Cutler's ability with one of the picks...if only one of them could turn out to be that calibur...oh the prospects of that! Maybe then...just maybe...in a few years the Broncos can be competitive again! :rofl:

Yes, the draft will be fun. however, expect that to be the most exciting time of the year for the next 3-5 seasons as the odds are that we will be in the top 15 picks every year over that span. Its like getting rid of the football season and living for the offseason! What fun!

mhgaffney
04-03-2009, 02:33 PM
Brown will be long gone before # 84

We'd be lucky to land him at # 48

MVP-06
04-03-2009, 02:34 PM
you're really asking this question. we just lost our franchise qb. let me ask you how many franchise qb are there out there.

using the term loosely

SoDak Bronco
04-03-2009, 02:35 PM
he'll probably be a late 2nd-3rd pick-Donald Brown

Pick Six
04-03-2009, 02:36 PM
I'm actually quite surprised that some of the hardcore draftniks who are in love with as many picks as possible aren't stoked about this trade...

gyldenlove
04-03-2009, 02:37 PM
Call me an optimist, but I'm pretty stoked about things right now. We could land five new starters for the defense, and still nab a late-round RB or WR. And even with all that, we get 2 first rounders next year to maneuver for a QB if we decide we need one. Ten new impact players on the roster within the next two years? Yep, I think that's possible.

Pretty exciting.

Again you are assuming that 2 guys who have never evaluated a player or been a player in a draft war room can convert draft picks to players. At best you have something like a 75% shot with a 1st round pick to get a starter, if you are not a good drafter you have something like a 25% chance.

We could in 3 years be looking at having 1 starter to show for trading Cutler.

Color me entirely unstoked until they can prove that they can draft and develope players.

SportinOne
04-03-2009, 02:37 PM
you're really asking this question. we just lost our franchise qb. let me ask you how many franchise qb are there out there.

Wait, you didn't see the part about getting 5 new defensive starters. That's right, not only are both 1st rounders going to work out (even better than Jarvis Moss worked out!), we're just going to tip toe around every other team and grab all the other good players too! No busts, none!

What a joke this team has become.

Here's another thing that absolutely sucks about turning into a mediocre revenue maker.. If you consistently go 10-6 you never get good draft picks. So you have no shot at the superbowl AND you have no shot at drafting the next great franchise QB. Excellent.. this just can't get any better..

Punisher
04-03-2009, 02:39 PM
:flush: :flush: :flush:

Bronx33
04-03-2009, 02:41 PM
I'm actually quite surprised that some of the hardcore draftniks who are in love with as many picks as possible aren't stoked about this trade...


They are still staring at that authentic jay cutler jersey in the closet they bought after they snap out of it the draft threads start up.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-03-2009, 02:47 PM
using the term loosely

What you saying that orten or simms are franchise qb's?

broncofan7
04-03-2009, 02:48 PM
#12) Everette Brown - DE Fla St
#18) Tyson Jackson - DE LSU
#48) Patrick Chung - S Oregon
#79) Eric Wood - C Louisville
#84) Donald Brown- RB Uconn

#12) Everette Brown - DE Fla St--I like it! an edge rusher is of GREAT need for a succesful 3-4. I'd prefer Arapko but he will go top 8 if not top 3.
#18) Tyson Jackson - DE LSU--solid choice if he is still on the board @18--although--and this will upset some, I'd prefer that we draft Knowshon Moreno who I feel will be a STAR in this league.I know that RB's didn't play that big of a role in NE, but perhaps with the influence of Dennison and Turner, McD will amend that a bit.#48) Patrick Chung - S Oregon--nice--I like that guy from Utah Shawn Smith-but he is likely a 1st round choice.#79) Eric Wood - C Louisville-another good pick#84) Donald Brown- RB Uconn--no chance he is here @84

broncofan7
04-03-2009, 02:50 PM
What you saying that orten or simms are franchise qb's?

I agree with you--I was disappointed..but it is kind of fun to try and predict what direction our team will go in with the new draft choices. When given lemons, make lemonade my man........

Los Broncos
04-03-2009, 03:06 PM
I'm pretty excited, lets improve the defense.

cutthemdown
04-03-2009, 03:08 PM
you're really asking this question. we just lost our franchise qb. let me ask you how many franchise qb are there out there.

Franchise QB is any QB you build a winning team around. The term is generic and does not apply only to Jay Cutler. The dude has lost more then he's won, throws a ton of picks, is moody, doesn't think he has more to learn bout qb, is diabetic and doesn't throw a great deep ball.

We can win with Orton or Simms if they are healthy. Cutler will be running from his life because he no longer has his franchise oline. The Bears oline stinks and Cutler is going to have a horrid yr, then try and blame the oline, ask for a new contract and probably hold out to get it.

cutthemdown
04-03-2009, 03:10 PM
What you saying that orten or simms are franchise qb's?

The term is generic.

cutthemdown
04-03-2009, 03:18 PM
You think without all the Superbowls Brady would be considered a franchise QB? There is a good chance that if Brady had gone to a team like Detroit he would have never been successful.

Cutler being mentioned in same breath with QBS that are winners is pretty funny IMO. This kid hasn't won jack, is now labeled a baby, has diabetes, turns ball over all the time, and mopes around a lot. I'm glad Broncos cut their losses with this loser and have moved on. This will be a good thing for Broncos. Maybe not this yr, but when Cutler blows up in Chicago because either they aren't throwing enough, he isn't putting up numbers, team isn't winning enough, and they won't pay him a huge new contract until he plays well for them, then we will see how franchise he is.

Great franchises are built through the draft. We can find another QB to run this system.

Orton looked good at times in Chicago but the oline was so bad he literealy had dlineman in his face right after the snap. Broncos will protect Otron or Simms, give them time, and they will throw for 3500 yrds and 20 tds. What Broncos will need to do is ramp up the running game, build the defense, and for godsake play some better special teams.

Special teams can be fixed in a short order. Why Broncos were always so crappy at it I have no idea. It has to be put on Shanny's shoulders.

enjolras
04-03-2009, 03:19 PM
If Cutler qualifies for a franchise QB then there are like 10-15 of them in the league.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-03-2009, 03:21 PM
If the market for Winslow and Shockey is a 2nd, I don't know if you get a 3rd for Scheffler. Maybe if it's in 2010 which is a good possibility.

The names you bring up are exactly why he's 3rd round value

Drek
04-03-2009, 03:29 PM
you're really asking this question. we just lost our franchise qb. let me ask you how many franchise qb are there out there.

I'll reiterate a statement I've made here before.

How many franchise QBs have never even made the playoffs, and most recently blew a three game divisional lead with only three games left in the season, after promising a division title when the season started?

I can't think of any.

If a pro-bowl is your definition of a franchise QB then I guess the Titans have two franchise QBs, and the Browns are letting their franchise QB go into '09 in open competition with Brady Quinn. Why would someone do that to a franchise QB?

epicSocialism4tw
04-03-2009, 03:40 PM
If Cutler qualifies for a franchise QB then there are like 10-15 of them in the league.

That opinion is not based in reality.

fdf
04-03-2009, 04:16 PM
Franchise QB is any QB you build a winning team around. The term is generic and does not apply only to Jay Cutler. The dude has lost more then he's won, throws a ton of picks, is moody, doesn't think he has more to learn bout qb, is diabetic and doesn't throw a great deep ball.

We can win with Orton or Simms if they are healthy. Cutler will be running from his life because he no longer has his franchise oline. The Bears oline stinks and Cutler is going to have a horrid yr, then try and blame the oline, ask for a new contract and probably hold out to get it.

Yup. I'd rather have a franchise OL than a franchise QB. I'd rather have a franchise DL than a franchise QB. Of course, I'd rather have them all--but life has tradeoffs and so does football. A lot of QB's can play well behind a great OL. Only QB's like Elway can play well behind a bad OL.

If we draft well, the franchise DL might be on its way. We'll see how the new management does. They can't be any worse at drafting DL than Shanahan was.

BMarsh615
04-03-2009, 04:27 PM
Look who is going to make those picks... That is why I am not excited.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-03-2009, 04:36 PM
Look who is going to make those picks... That is why I am not excited.

Why, does he have a bad personnel record? No, because one doesnt exist. God, what a ****ing asinine comment.

Gcver2ver3
04-03-2009, 05:03 PM
use both 1st rounders on defense...

use the 2nd rounder on RB...we'll get good value at RB there...

Mocks show Shonn Green and L McCoy falling into the 2nd round...

this draft has a chance to be something great for us...

BMarsh615
04-03-2009, 05:06 PM
Why, does he have a bad personnel record? No, because one doesnt exist. God, what a ****ing asinine comment.

Oh I don't know... He did manage to just run off a franchise QB before he even reached his prime. ROFL! He couldn't even get Cutler to talk to him face to face.

I hope McDaniels turns out to be the best coach and talent evaluator in Denver history. I just don't see it happening, and that sucks. I see us being in for a rough few seasons.

broncswin
04-03-2009, 05:49 PM
Yup. I'd rather have a franchise OL than a franchise QB. I'd rather have a franchise DL than a franchise QB. Of course, I'd rather have them all--but life has tradeoffs and so does football. A lot of QB's can play well behind a great OL. Only QB's like Elway can play well behind a bad OL.
If we draft well, the franchise DL might be on its way. We'll see how the new management does. They can't be any worse at drafting DL than Shanahan was.

Brother that is a great post, you my friend deserve some REP:thumbsup:

broncswin
04-03-2009, 05:51 PM
Must I mention that Orton has a better record than the great Cutler, so I guess that should make Orton a franchise qb

cutthemdown
04-03-2009, 05:58 PM
The price of a lot of FA will soon be to fire sale mode maybe Broncos can find some more help as far as ST players go. Who knows maybe even a trade for a good dlineman with all these picks.

IMO with college FA you don't need 10 picks in the draft. Broncos will probably trade some of the low round picks for picks next yr, or package them to move up in the 3rd round where there will be a ton of value.

In any event I am a true orange blooded Bronco fan. It's time for the team and the fans to pull together and stop pointing fingers and laying blame.

We all love the team, even the crying diaper wearing babies, it's time to get over it and look forward to the draft, training camp, and the season.

What else can a real Denver Bronco fan do? I will never be a cry baby, I would rather get mad and focus it on hating Oak/SD/KC and now Jay Cutler in that order.

cutthemdown
04-03-2009, 06:01 PM
Must I mention that Orton has a better record than the great Cutler, so I guess that should make Orton a franchise qb

well no doubt Orton hasn't played great. Chicago wins with defense and IMO that's still what they will try and do. The try and throw 30 times a game with that oline Cutler may not do very well.

Also Cutler hates inside pressure, outside pressure hes pretty good at avoiding, he has quick feet, bust inside pressure he tends to backpeddle and make mistakes. Bears have crappy guards and tackles. Orton got pressure inside, outside, everywhere.

One thing hasnt changed, we have clady, harris, kuper, to build on oline around. Hamilton a little older but can still play at a high level. Hamilton played one of his best games ever last yr VS ATL. I do think we should add a young center in the draft this yr.

cabronco
04-03-2009, 06:04 PM
use both 1st rounders on defense...

use the 2nd rounder on RB...we'll get good value at RB there...

Mocks show Shonn Green and L McCoy falling into the 2nd round...

this draft has a chance to be something great for us...


Sounds good to me, I cant wait for draft day !

SonOfLe-loLang
04-03-2009, 06:06 PM
Oh I don't know... He did manage to just run off a franchise QB before he even reached his prime. ROFL! He couldn't even get Cutler to talk to him face to face.

I hope McDaniels turns out to be the best coach and talent evaluator in Denver history. I just don't see it happening, and that sucks. I see us being in for a rough few seasons.

What the hell does that have to do with evaluating talent? Because Cutler has a huge bruised ego, thats McDaniels' fault? hmmm

loborugger
04-03-2009, 08:10 PM
Since our team appears to be in full on, unabashed rebuilding phase, I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if we traded down a little. We could get a ton of players.

lex
04-03-2009, 08:26 PM
Since our team appears to be in full on, unabashed rebuilding phase, I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if we traded down a little. We could get a ton of players.

Rebuilding mode is not acceptable.

Elway777
04-03-2009, 10:28 PM
#12) Everette Brown - DE Fla St
#18) Tyson Jackson - DE LSU
#48) Patrick Chung - S Oregon
#79) Eric Wood - C Louisville
#84) Donald Brown- RB Uconn


That would be a great draft. Donald Brown most likely will not make it to 84. pick.

Boltjolt
04-04-2009, 12:11 AM
Brown will be long gone before # 84

We'd be lucky to land him at # 48

And Tyson Jackson will be wearing Bolts! !Booya!

Actually i dont think any of those guys will be around in his little mock except for Chung and Wood.

BroncoBuff
04-04-2009, 12:19 AM
Look who is going to make those picks... That is why I am not excited.

Ding ding ding!

We have a winner!


To be fair, Josh might draft okay ... but there's no way better than Goodman. Nobody in the league drafted better than Goodman the last three years. Some of the picks were obvious - not even his doing, such as Cutler and Clady. But the jewels in the mid-late rounds - Harris, Kuper, Larsen, Hillis, Thomas, Marshall, and 2nd-rounders Scheffler and Royal, these guys add up to amazing drafting.

I'd be SHOCKED if McD can match that .... I hope he can, but I won't hold my breath.

Drek
04-04-2009, 05:07 AM
Ding ding ding!

We have a winner!


To be fair, Josh might draft okay ... but there's no way better than Goodman. Nobody in the league drafted better than Goodman the last three years. Some of the picks were obvious - not even his doing, such as Cutler and Clady. But the jewels in the mid-late rounds - Harris, Kuper, Larsen, Hillis, Thomas, Marshall, and 2nd-rounders Scheffler and Royal, these guys add up to amazing drafting.

I'd be SHOCKED if McD can match that .... I hope he can, but I won't hold my breath.
Goodman found one player who's become a league average or better starter on our defense. Elvis Dumervil.

Spencer Larsen looks like he has potential, but the coaching staff sure didn't seem to notice.

Wesley Woodyard is a tweener who can make plays in the right environment but again, the coaching staff almost seemed to be trying to keep him off the field.

Marcus Thomas has talent but is still a below average every down player, he should be a #3 DT rotating with some veteran experience.

Other than that there's the '07 1st and 2nd round bust duo, and Jack Williams who couldn't beat out a UDFA or Karl Paymah to see the field last year when Bailey was hurt.

They made some great moves on offense. I give them a lot of credit on the selection of Cutler in particular. But its not like they were hitting on players at unparalleled precision. They just had a good year followed by a bad year followed by another good year. Just so happens the bad one came when they where asked to focus on defense.

Dimitroff and Smith had both never actually been calling the shots and they did a very good job in Atlanta last year. Wisenhunt has drafted well since he went to Arizona. I could go on. Everyone gets their start somewhere and as many guys find early success out of the gate as those who don't. We don't know what we have yet but Jim Goodman's track record is far from perfect. There is always room for improvement unless you're at the very top.

Hamrob
04-04-2009, 10:18 AM
How I won't be excited:

If we trade both 12 & 18 away in order to get Sanchez!

If that happens...we essentially traded Cutler for Sanchez. That would be the most idiotic outcome to this whole ordeal. I hope it doesn't happen...but who knows. Mickey-D is one of the most stubborn kids with a clipboard I've ever seen.

Rohirrim
04-04-2009, 10:25 AM
Goodman found one player who's become a league average or better starter on our defense. Elvis Dumervil.

Spencer Larsen looks like he has potential, but the coaching staff sure didn't seem to notice.

Wesley Woodyard is a tweener who can make plays in the right environment but again, the coaching staff almost seemed to be trying to keep him off the field.

Marcus Thomas has talent but is still a below average every down player, he should be a #3 DT rotating with some veteran experience.

Other than that there's the '07 1st and 2nd round bust duo, and Jack Williams who couldn't beat out a UDFA or Karl Paymah to see the field last year when Bailey was hurt.

They made some great moves on offense. I give them a lot of credit on the selection of Cutler in particular. But its not like they were hitting on players at unparalleled precision. They just had a good year followed by a bad year followed by another good year. Just so happens the bad one came when they where asked to focus on defense.

Dimitroff and Smith had both never actually been calling the shots and they did a very good job in Atlanta last year. Wisenhunt has drafted well since he went to Arizona. I could go on. Everyone gets their start somewhere and as many guys find early success out of the gate as those who don't. We don't know what we have yet but Jim Goodman's track record is far from perfect. There is always room for improvement unless you're at the very top.

Unfortunately, we shouldn't be surprised if some of these players that we like the most get traded for picks in a couple of weeks. Will Nolan be able to use Dumervil, Larsen, Woodyard (gulp), Williams, etc.? ???

Drek
04-04-2009, 10:54 AM
Unfortunately, we shouldn't be surprised if some of these players that we like the most get traded for picks in a couple of weeks. Will Nolan be able to use Dumervil, Larsen, Woodyard (gulp), Williams, etc.? ???

Dumervil seems very excited about the new defense, so I'm sure they've got a plan for him, which they've shared.

Larsen seems like an ideal SILB two down trench soldier for the 3-4, I'd expect him to stay.

DJ will definitely stay, they converted some of his bonus money into a guaranteed signing bonus, prorated throughout the remainder of his deal to free up cap room but it also extends their commitment to him. I'm assuming he'll either play WILB or SOLB, he should be able to handle both at an above average level.

Woodyard is the big question, but I doubt he's got a ton of trade value. He'll be retained for special teams alone until he proves/disproves that he has what it takes to find a home in the 3-4.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-04-2009, 10:59 AM
How I won't be excited:

If we trade both 12 & 18 away in order to get Sanchez!

If that happens...we essentially traded Cutler for Sanchez. That would be the most idiotic outcome to this whole ordeal. I hope it doesn't happen...but who knows. Mickey-D is one of the most stubborn kids with a clipboard I've ever seen.

If McDaniels wanted a QB in this draft, Cutler would be in Detroit right now. They turned down the 1st overall. Yeah, they can say it was about money, but if McDaniels and everyone else thought either Stafford or Sanchez were a true can't miss prospect, Denver would be in the 1st spot right now.

lex
04-04-2009, 12:13 PM
Goodman found one player who's become a league average or better starter on our defense. Elvis Dumervil.

Spencer Larsen looks like he has potential, but the coaching staff sure didn't seem to notice.

Wesley Woodyard is a tweener who can make plays in the right environment but again, the coaching staff almost seemed to be trying to keep him off the field.

Marcus Thomas has talent but is still a below average every down player, he should be a #3 DT rotating with some veteran experience.

Other than that there's the '07 1st and 2nd round bust duo, and Jack Williams who couldn't beat out a UDFA or Karl Paymah to see the field last year when Bailey was hurt.

They made some great moves on offense. I give them a lot of credit on the selection of Cutler in particular. But its not like they were hitting on players at unparalleled precision. They just had a good year followed by a bad year followed by another good year. Just so happens the bad one came when they where asked to focus on defense.

Dimitroff and Smith had both never actually been calling the shots and they did a very good job in Atlanta last year. Wisenhunt has drafted well since he went to Arizona. I could go on. Everyone gets their start somewhere and as many guys find early success out of the gate as those who don't. We don't know what we have yet but Jim Goodman's track record is far from perfect. There is always room for improvement unless you're at the very top.

Actually, all those guys were steals for where we took them. Until last year, Doom had averaged over 10 sacks a season as a 4th round draft pick. And youll have a hard time convincing people that the defense wasnt at its best last year when Larsen and Woodyard were on the field. Same is the case with Barrett vs the other safeties we had. Youre grievances are more of a reflection of our coaches had their favorites that they entrenched themselves with. Its not at all a reflection of the Goodmans.

Northman
04-04-2009, 12:16 PM
#12) Everette Brown - DE Fla St
#18) Tyson Jackson - DE LSU
#48) Patrick Chung - S Oregon
#79) Eric Wood - C Louisville
#84) Donald Brown- RB Uconn

I would go for that. ^5

fdf
04-04-2009, 12:20 PM
Look who is going to make those picks... That is why I am not excited.

That's a valid concern in a generic sense--the results of draft picks are inherently uncertain. But then, so too is keeping a rocket arm young qb with serious health and attitude problems. We'll just have to see how it plays out. On paper, it's a great deal for the Broncos.

Like you, I hope new management is better at drafting DL and building a D than the previous group was. They certainly could not be any worse.

Rohirrim
04-04-2009, 12:24 PM
Dumervil seems very excited about the new defense, so I'm sure they've got a plan for him, which they've shared.

Larsen seems like an ideal SILB two down trench soldier for the 3-4, I'd expect him to stay.

DJ will definitely stay, they converted some of his bonus money into a guaranteed signing bonus, prorated throughout the remainder of his deal to free up cap room but it also extends their commitment to him. I'm assuming he'll either play WILB or SOLB, he should be able to handle both at an above average level.

Woodyard is the big question, but I doubt he's got a ton of trade value. He'll be retained for special teams alone until he proves/disproves that he has what it takes to find a home in the 3-4.

I hope so. I like these guys. I was referring to Jack Williams. I know DJ is not going anywhere. You can always find a spot for a guy with his skills. Here's a question for you, or anybody else who knows: How many players can a team carry that are strictly ST players?

fdf
04-04-2009, 12:28 PM
Rebuilding mode is not acceptable.

For at least three years now, rebuilding mode for the D has not even been optional. It has been mandatory. It really doesn't matter if it is "unacceptable" to you.

Reality is it was unavoidable. The complete inability to recognize that reality is, imho, the reason Mike Shanahan is no longer the coach of the Denver Broncos.

lex
04-04-2009, 12:35 PM
For at least three years now, rebuilding mode for the D has not even been optional. It has been mandatory. It really doesn't matter if it is "unacceptable" to you.

Reality is it was unavoidable. The complete inability to recognize that reality is, imho, the reason Mike Shanahan is no longer the coach of the Denver Broncos.


Apparently it matters more than you think. Pat just sent out a letter to fans. So, while it doesnt matter if its only me, thats obviously not the case because it does matter enough for Pat to send everyone a letter. Also, Pat said he wants to win sooner rather than later.

And regarding your analysis of our team. Mike Mayock said that we were one or two good defensive drafts away from being a contender.

Drek
04-04-2009, 01:20 PM
Actually, all those guys were steals for where we took them. Until last year, Doom had averaged over 10 sacks a season as a 4th round draft pick. And youll have a hard time convincing people that the defense wasnt at its best last year when Larsen and Woodyard were on the field. Same is the case with Barrett vs the other safeties we had. Youre grievances are more of a reflection of our coaches had their favorites that they entrenched themselves with. Its not at all a reflection of the Goodmans.

And they've done nothing whenever they had to reach higher in the draft.

I think Larsen, Woodyard, and Barrett have a lot of talent. But they've got a ways to go to be considered a proven pick of any sort. The only real feather in the Goodman's cap on that side of the ball is Dumervil.

But its also a poor assumption to assume they were entirely responsible for identifying and picking those players. The scouts are the ones who do the ground work, and its a big reason why we can even give Jim Goodman credit for the '06 draft, when he was the scout for the southeast region. If we're going to give him props for that then we should give a fair amount of props to the entire rest of the scouting department that has been retained.

This isn't just two rookies making wild guesses in the dark. They have the exact same information system that Jim Goodman had as well as a handful of experienced newcomers to give their input from other organizations where they have seen drafting success.

fdf
04-08-2009, 11:08 PM
"Apparently it matters more than you think. Pat just sent out a letter to fans. So, while it doesnt matter if its only me, thats obviously not the case because it does matter enough for Pat to send everyone a letter. Also, Pat said he wants to win sooner rather than later."

Well, duh. Me too. Doesn't mean we aren't rebuilding. Or that we actually are going to win sooner rather than later. Wishes are reality only in Washington DC. I'll be pleased if I see the D going in the right direction next year. It has been going the wrong direction for several years now.

"And regarding your analysis of our team. Mike Mayock said that we were one or two good defensive drafts away from being a contender."

I can't say I disagree with him. The FA moves this year have all been in the right direction. The right folks have been let go. I'm excited about the 3-4 (I'm one of the old farts here and remember the Orange Crush).

But in my mind, being one or two good drafts away from being a contender after you have let half your defense go is rebuilding. That's three years out before the second draft starts being productive. If things go well, I think we are back in the mix in 3 years. I don't want to argue about semantics. I would call that rebuilding. You can call it whatever you want.

Taco John
04-08-2009, 11:11 PM
Dont be surprised to see another 3rd rounder come in for scheffler



A third rounder for Scheffler?

That would be totally suprising...

Hulamau
04-09-2009, 12:15 AM
Look who is going to make those picks... That is why I am not excited.


He worked directly with Pioli for a year and a half in personnel, not to mention being there in the thick of it all for 8 years in NE, seems like a bright enough guy, I suppose he learned something.

Why not wait and see before pulling out your hair and gnashing your teeth like a Nervous Nelly? :thumbs:

Oh and by the way, McD did NOT run Cutler off at all, that was 100% on Cry Baby Jay and his over blown childish whiner reactions to life in the big leagues.

epicSocialism4tw
04-09-2009, 12:35 AM
He worked directly with Pioli for a year and a half in personnel, not to mention being there in the thick of it all for 8 years in NE, seems like a bright enough guy, I suppose he learned something.

Why not wait and see before pulling out your hair and gnashing your teeth like a Nervous Nelly? :thumbs:

Oh and by the way, McD did NOT run Cutler off at all, that was 100% on Cry Baby Jay and his over blown childish whiner reactions to life in the big leagues.

Sorry man, but with thats an extreme position you are advocating there. McD certainly has culpability here, and to ignore that he contributed to this mess is to ignore reality.

BroncoBuff
04-09-2009, 01:14 AM
They just had a good year followed by a bad year followed by another good year. Just so happens the bad one came when they where asked to focus on defense.

Let me disagree this way: First-round picks must have been Mike's calls ... we traded up for both Jarvis and Jay - Goodman didn't make those trades, Mike did. Mike made those picks, Clady too.

So give Mike credit for Cutler and Clady, and by that logic you can't fault Goodman for Moss. So in the 2007 draft, Goodman got two starters in three (non-1st round) picks, and that is not a "bad year" as you call it.

Plus, I guess I like Marcus Thomas a lot more than you do ... any kid who spends his senior year away from the game, and then starts 20-24 games his first two years in the league is a steal in Round 4. Despite the fact he's listed #2 at NT on the current depth chart, I think Thomas will start at DE eventually, and do very well there (I am a well-known as a huge Kenny Peterson supporter, but even I think Kenny on top the depth chart is a bit too much).


Aside from 2007 ... the 2006 draft was sensational, absolutely. Don't forget Domenik Hixon, either .... Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Dumervil, Hixon, Kuper - all starters three years later. And Eslinger was on the Texans practice squad last year ... so all 7 picks lasted a full 3 years minimmum in the league. Amazing.

Broncojef
04-09-2009, 07:06 AM
Let me disagree this way: First-round picks must have been Mike's calls ... we traded up for both Jarvis and Jay - Goodman didn't make those trades, Mike did. Mike made those picks, Clady too.

So give Mike credit for Cutler and Clady, and by that logic you can't fault Goodman for Moss. So in the 2007 draft, Goodman got two starters in three (non-1st round) picks, and that is not a "bad year" as you call it.

Plus, I guess I like Marcus Thomas a lot more than you do ... any kid who spends his senior year away from the game, and then starts 20-24 games his first two years in the league is a steal in Round 4. Despite the fact he's listed #2 at NT on the current depth chart, I think Thomas will start at DE eventually, and do very well there (I am a well-known as a huge Kenny Peterson supporter, but even I think Kenny on top the depth chart is a bit too much).


Aside from 2007 ... the 2006 draft was sensational, absolutely. Don't forget Domenik Hixon, either .... Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Dumervil, Hixon, Kuper - all starters three years later. And Eslinger was on the Texans practice squad last year ... so all 7 picks lasted a full 3 years minimmum in the league. Amazing.

Don't forget as our team has deteriorated the last few years and the average talent especially on the defense got worse and worse it became easier and easier to "hit" on picks. I think we all know Shanny knew how to build an offense, the players became disfunctional lacking coaching and leadership IMO however. It seems we never had any real focus on our defensive strategy. Shanny really needed a solid DC who could run the whole thing but instead settled for morons he could keep under his thumb. Our defense has been in need of direction for years...4-3....3-4 whats our strategy etc. We finally have a direction and hopefully we can draft and build for the future. With our large number of draft picks the next couple years we should be good in 3 years. Drafting Moss and trading up for him was not a hit, it was a reach and not a good one IMO, who knows maybe with some real defensive coaching he'll still pan out.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-09-2009, 12:06 PM
Call me an optimist, but I'm pretty stoked about things right now. We could land five new starters for the defense, and still nab a late-round RB or WR. And even with all that, we get 2 first rounders next year to maneuver for a QB if we decide we need one. Ten new impact players on the roster within the next two years? Yep, I think that's possible.

Pretty exciting.

i have a new take on this.

hey i won $1,000,000,000. my penis doesn't work.

BroncoBuff
04-09-2009, 12:31 PM
It seems we never had any real focus on our defensive strategy. Shanny really needed a solid DC who could run the whole thing but instead settled for morons he could keep under his thumb.

You sir, have just written the perfect eulegy for Michael Edwad Shanahan.

BroncoLifer
04-09-2009, 12:42 PM
And Eslinger was on the Texans practice squad last year ...

Eslinger finished last season back on the Broncos practice squad, didn't he?

socalorado
04-09-2009, 12:54 PM
I hope so. I like these guys. I was referring to Jack Williams. I know DJ is not going anywhere. You can always find a spot for a guy with his skills. Here's a question for you, or anybody else who knows: How many players can a team carry that are strictly ST players?

What the F$$$ is this $h!t!?!?!?
WHen you are making a mother****in statement which includes JAck Mother****in Williams name in it, you will use his correct mother****in name, mother****er.

Can we please keep some mother****in things real here?!??!
Damn, this mother****in place sometimes....
Mother****in Roh..

BroncoBuff
04-09-2009, 12:56 PM
Eslinger finished last season back on the Broncos practice squad, didn't he?

Could be ... I think he was. I do know he wants to go to chiropractor school.

Eslinger is an enormous mystery to me. In college, he was all Big Ten and All-America first-team twice, and won the Rimington award, all while playing for the Minnesota Gophers.

At the same time, his same-aged counterpart center at Big 10 marquee team Ohio State finished 2nd to him in all these categories. Every time.

And yet, Nick Mangold has been a Pro-Bowler in all three of his seasons in the NFL ???

Rock Chalk
04-09-2009, 02:23 PM
you're really asking this question. we just lost our franchise qb. let me ask you how many franchise qb are there out there.

We had a franchise QB?

I thought franchise QBs won games they were supposed to win, didnt choke in big games, didnt whine about new coaching staffs and lead the team on the field.

I wasnt aware we had one of those.

cousinal11
04-09-2009, 02:27 PM
Eh.

DBBBSBS
04-09-2009, 02:49 PM
We had a franchise QB?

I thought franchise QBs won games they were supposed to win, didnt choke in big games, didnt whine about new coaching staffs and lead the team on the field.

I wasnt aware we had one of those.

now this should spark those cu-nt-ler fans up again. If you come defending that cry baby.. go to the bears board and spend the rest of your life there

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-09-2009, 03:29 PM
We had a franchise QB?

I thought franchise QBs won games they were supposed to win, didnt choke in big games, didnt whine about new coaching staffs and lead the team on the field.

I wasnt aware we had one of those.

great standard. let me answer it this way. you saying that you think we had an 8-8 team last year. take a guess of the 8 wins we had last year, how many did not require a 4th quarter comeback? 2 faider and jets game were the only wins.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
04-09-2009, 09:55 PM
So you take away cutler you take away 6 wins. we are really a 2-14 team.


That not adding the fact that we were doing it with 7 different RBs, 3 back up LBs, 5 Ss. And all that is suppose to be Cutlers fault?

Atwater His Ass
04-09-2009, 10:55 PM
We had a franchise QB?

I thought franchise QBs won games they were supposed to win, didnt choke in big games, didnt whine about new coaching staffs and lead the team on the field.

I wasnt aware we had one of those.

So Elway wasn't a franchise QB until he won in 98 and 99 right? I mean, ****, he choked away the 3 biggest games in his career prior to that point.

Oh, and **** man, he got Reeves ran out of town. Man another strike.

Good thing retards like you aren't in charge to trade away those kind of guys...oh wait...

Popps
04-09-2009, 11:06 PM
So Elway wasn't a franchise QB until he won in 98 and 99 right? I mean, ****, he choked away the 3 biggest games in his career prior to that point..

I can't imagine any Broncos fan comparing Cutler to Elway. What incredible disrespect for the club's all-time MVP.

Elway had guts. He didn't mope around and look done playing in the middle of games. He didn't get in slap-fights with opposing QBs to the extent that he couldn't do his job. He didn't try to **** over the team for a contract and he sure the hell didn't pout and quit when we drafted another QB and tried to trade him.

Then there's the little issue of Elway completely carrying teams on his back, making crucial throws at crucial times, and doing it without any name receivers, no top-flight line, no Mike Shanahan, no 4 YPC running-back or any of the other luxuries Cutler has had.

You think Elway would have blown that Buffalo game?

What a ****ing disgrace for anyone who calls themselves a Broncos fan to compare that gutless, bronco-deserting little emo ****** to the best QB to ever play the game.

MrPeepers
04-09-2009, 11:58 PM
Ten Nuggets Mined From Mayock
1. "This is by far the worst year for the top 10 that I've seen. Down around 18, 20, you'll get every bit the player you'll get in the top 10 for a third of the price.''
2. His gut feeling is Detroit's taking Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford with the first pick of the draft.
3. "I can't bang the table for Stafford the way I did for Matt Ryan (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/8780) last year. I don't see an elite player in him every time I watch, which you need to see if you're taking a quarterback that high.''
4. Mayock, if he had his choice of first-round picks for talent and value, would be around 22. "The value in this draft is at 15 and beyond.''
5. He says eight or nine tight ends will be drafted in the first three rounds. He loves the best of the bunch, Oklahoma State's Brandon Pettigrew. (I'd love to see the Bills land him, by the way. Perfect offensive weapon for a coordinator, Turk Schonert, who loves to use the tight end.)
6. He likes Eugene Monroe over Jason Smith, if you're picking a franchise tackle. "Smith's got a better upside. Very aggressive. But Monroe's got the best feet in the draft. He's a really accomplished technician.''
7. He thinks Wake Forest linebacker Aaron Curry -- who Detroit would play at middle linebacker if the Lions made him the first pick of the draft -- would be optimally used at strongside linebacker in the 4-3 because he can cover, he can play physically over the tight end, and he's got upside pass-rushing ability.
8. He's scared of Brian Orakpo, the Texas defensive end who's the apple of a few teams' eyes in the top half of the first round. "Buyer beware,'' Mayock said. "He's boom or bust. I don't know if he's DeMarcus Ware (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/7187) or Vernon Gholston (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/8783). I've seen him have some really good games, and I've seen what I considered to be Brandon Pettigrew tearing him apart. The point is, I don't see it all the time from Orakpo, which concerns me.''
9. Of the elite quarterbacks, he likes USC's Mark Sanchez the best. "He's the most ready made for the pro game right now.''
10. If you need a cornerback in this draft, sit it out. There are no corners even well above average, never mind great.
A year ago, Mayock told me he liked Ryan, who played four years at Boston College, more than he'd liked any quarterback to come out in years. Not the case with the three early entry passers this year -- Stafford, Sanchez and Kansas State's Josh Freeman. "In the last 15 years, there have been 11 underclass quarterbacks taken in the first round,'' he said. "Of those 11, Ben Roethlisberger (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/6770) and Aaron Rodgers (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/7200) are the only clear successes. It's a dangerous thing, picking young quarterbacks so high.''


Found this on SI.com - if the draft really is weak through the top 10 maybe we trade down with some teams for more picks.
Don't go drafting Vontae Davis.

Popps
04-10-2009, 12:29 AM
Ten Nuggets Mined From Mayock
1. "This is by far the worst year for the top 10 that I've seen. Down around 18, 20, you'll get every bit the player you'll get in the top 10 for a third of the price.''

Funny, I just said today that I wouldn't mind at all if we dropped down to 18 and 20 (specifically) if we get an extra pick to do so.

I agree with him, particularly this year. I think the real bargains will be hanging out around those levels.

BroncoInSkinland
04-10-2009, 06:47 AM
I can't imagine any Broncos fan comparing Cutler to Elway. What incredible disrespect for the club's all-time MVP.

But, as we see with great QBs like Elway and maybe even Cutler... you aren't going anywhere without a tough unit on the other side of the ball.

My how times change, oh well, here is to hoping that finally someone will fix the deffense, specifically the front 7. That is something we can agree on.

Rohirrim
04-10-2009, 08:22 AM
Ten Nuggets Mined From Mayock
1. "This is by far the worst year for the top 10 that I've seen. Down around 18, 20, you'll get every bit the player you'll get in the top 10 for a third of the price.''

Funny, I just said today that I wouldn't mind at all if we dropped down to 18 and 20 (specifically) if we get an extra pick to do so.

I agree with him, particularly this year. I think the real bargains will be hanging out around those levels.

I agree. It would be nice if Sanchez was there at 12 and the Jets wanted to trade up from that 17 spot. 17 and 18 would be the cream of this first round. ;D

LonghornBronco
04-10-2009, 02:26 PM
#12) Malcom Jenkins CB/S - Ohio State
#18) Chris Wells RB - Ohio State
#48) Max Unger C - Oregon
#79) Lawrence Sidbury OLB - Richmond
#84) Alex McGee DE/NT - Purdue
#114) Rhett Bomar QB - Sam Houston State
#140) Sammie Lee Hill DE/NT - Stillman
#149) Bradley Flecher CB - Iowa
#185) Terrance Taylor DT/NT - Michigan
#225) Nick Reed RILB - Oregon
#235) Grahm Harell QB - Texas Tech