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View Full Version : I've re-watched Cutler vs. San Diego and...


SportinOne
03-28-2009, 11:42 PM
(by the way I'm talking about the second game of the season)

...I'm convinced that there is only one quarterback in the NFL that is better than Cutler. His name is Peyton. Now, some will point out that Cutler was very inconsistent this year and had some pretty bad games. That's true, and it's a valid point that to be among the best at what you do you should do it on a consistent basis. But even "Mr. QB Rating" Rivers had at least 4 bad games. That's 1/4 of the season. I would say Jay had about 6 bad games. That's not a good thing at all, but my argument is that, when Cutler is at his best he's better than everyone not named Peyton Manning. Cutler has a little more physical ability but Peyton more than makes up for it with his brain. He is getting old, though.

So, what's the point? The point is that, if McDaniels can work with Cutler to make him more consistent, we should have the best quarterback in the NFL in a few seasons. I'm just sitting here watching him throw dart after dart after dart. He could probably work on his touch passes but, really, if he is that accurate throwing fastballs then why worry about touch passes? The touchdown pass to Marshall was a perfect example of that. He took just a little bit off and laid it in there perfectly...and I'm not even sure if that was the best one of the half! Both of the touchdown passes to Scheffler were amazing as well. You just don't see any other quarterbacks, sans Peyton, making plays like this.. ever.

This has nothing to do with McDaniels vs. Cutler, at all. I'm convinced he's coming back and I'm excited for Broncos football to get going again. If Cutler can be an idiot off the field but a god on the field, I think McDaniels deserves the benefit of the doubt that he's capable of doing the same.

:coach:

tsiguy96
03-28-2009, 11:48 PM
people point out all his inconsistencies, but no QB in the NFL is gonna be any good when they know they have to score on every drive to even be competitive in teh game. you have to pass 40 times and 1/10 of them have to be TDs to even have a chance at winning. good luck!

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 11:49 PM
i agree. Jay makes plays that i have never seen another QB even attempt. with a little more coaching, and a little help around him, he will undoubtedly be the best in the game in the next few years.

McDaniels has a reputation of turning nobodies into near pro bowlers, he should be chomping at the bit to see how much better he can make a pro bowler.

that is why i hate him. he was so ignorant, that he didn't see he can have a hand in creating the best and most talented QB in the game, but instead he wanted the safety blanket of a marginally talented QB he has known for years.

Popps
03-28-2009, 11:51 PM
He's a hall of fame physical talent. There's no question. I hope it all works out.

But, that's all up to Jay.

I could see the thing going either way. I hope he straightens up and comes back into the fold.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-28-2009, 11:55 PM
i agree. Jay makes plays that i have never seen another QB even attempt. with a little more coaching, and a little help around him, he will undoubtedly be the best in the game in the next few years.

McDaniels has a reputation of turning nobodies into near pro bowlers, he should be chomping at the bit to see how much better he can make a pro bowler.

that is why i hate him. he was so ignorant, that he didn't see he can have a hand in creating the best and most talented QB in the game, but instead he wanted the safety blanket of a marginally talented QB he has known for years.

That's why you HATE him? He's doing and saying all the right things to get Jay back into the fold. He's said on numerous occasions that he thinks he and Jay will be great for each other. If Jay realizes how great his career could be in this offense and gets to town, there's nothing they can't accomplish.

I've seen McDaniels grow up and become a man through this. I'm waiting on Jay to do the same. I don't hate Jay. But it's time to be a big boy and come set some records.

Great OP, by the way.

SportinOne
03-28-2009, 11:56 PM
I don't get why he would want to trade him either but, I think, it's over and done with so hopefully they get a few quick wins to start the season and never look back.

NFLBRONCO
03-29-2009, 12:00 AM
What happens if we happen to go 6-10 in 09? Will Cutler still want to be here in 2010? I hope they can last years together.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 12:02 AM
That's why you HATE him? He's doing and saying all the right things to get Jay back into the fold. He's said on numerous occasions that he thinks he and Jay will be great for each other. If Jay realizes how great his career could be in this offense and gets to town, there's nothing they can't accomplish.

I've seen McDaniels grow up and become a man through this. I'm waiting on Jay to do the same. I don't hate Jay. But it's time to be a big boy and come set some records.

Great OP, by the way.

to the media he is saying the right things. but when it comes to actually talking to the guy he ****ed over, he is still trying to pull a power trip on him, instead of just squashing the problem and getting this **** over with

and yes, ignorance on his part is a perfect reason to hate him. he's an NFL coach, and instead of looking at the most talented player on his team and saying, i can make this guy better than anyone else in the league, and we can win championships together, he looked at his best player and thought, if only i had a less talented guy who knows my system i would be in great shape.

instead of looking at the challenge of making a pro bowler better than he already is, he wanted the easy way out and wanted a security blanket in the form of Cassel.

this is the NFL, and he is a HC in the NFL, **** is hard, and you can't just look for the easy way out, because it will blow up in your face and you will be looking for work

and on a side note, i agree Jay could grow a thicker skin, get over it, and tear it up, just to basically show McDaniels he was a fool to even contemplate trading him.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 12:13 AM
to the media he is saying the right things. but when it comes to actually talking to the guy he ****ed over, he is still trying to pull a power trip on him, instead of just squashing the problem and getting this **** over with

and yes, ignorance on his part is a perfect reason to hate him. he's an NFL coach, and instead of looking at the most talented player on his team and saying, i can make this guy better than anyone else in the league, and we can win championships together, he looked at his best player and thought, if only i had a less talented guy who knows my system i would be in great shape.

instead of looking at the challenge of making a pro bowler better than he already is, he wanted the easy way out and wanted a security blanket in the form of Cassel.

this is the NFL, and he is a HC in the NFL, **** is hard, and you can't just look for the easy way out, because it will blow up in your face and you will be looking for work

and on a side note, i agree Jay could grow a thicker skin, get over it, and tear it up, just to basically show McDaniels he was a fool to even contemplate trading him.

get over it, mcdaniels will be here for awhile as will jay, no one will give us in picks/players what he is worth. yea jay almost got traded, big deal its happened to much better palyers then him, but what irks me is people like you act as if we were not getting anything in return except cassel.

SportinOne
03-29-2009, 12:17 AM
Alright, all good points but not the point of the thread. Keep it positive.

SportinOne
03-29-2009, 12:26 AM
Side Note: Watching Brandon Marshall dominate this game, you could say almost the same thing about him as you could for Jay. He's capable of being a top 5 wideout, but he has some really bad games. Wrong reads resulting in wrong routes. Drops. His own off-field issues. Like Jay, if he commits to the team we'll be a damn juggernaut.

Also, It's too bad Pittman didn't come to the team three or four years ago. He runs so hard, he probably would have done well in Denver.

SoCalBronco
03-29-2009, 12:27 AM
I've seen McDaniels grow up and become a man through this. .

How so? Explain.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 12:28 AM
rewatch the KC home game again and tell me hillis is NOT a starter in this league...

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 12:33 AM
rewatch the KC home game again and tell me hillis is NOT a starter in this league...

ask your favorite person associated with the Broncos, Josh McDaniels that question.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 12:37 AM
get over it, mcdaniels will be here for awhile as will jay, no one will give us in picks/players what he is worth. yea jay almost got traded, big deal its happened to much better palyers then him, but what irks me is people like you act as if we were not getting anything in return except cassel.

name a player of his calibur and position and age that was traded

because i know you will say Montana, Favre and Young.

but in the case of Montana he had been in the league 13 years and had only played in 1 game the final 2 years of his time in San Francisco and in that time Young took over his position and kicked ass at it.

Favre played one season in Atlanta and threw something like 4 passes, 2 of which were intercepted

Young was a backup in Tampa.

so, i pose the question. Who at the age of 25, who played QB, and was coming off a pro bowl year has ever been traded?

Spider
03-29-2009, 12:38 AM
Okay , thats enough Cutler ass kissing ............. ;D
But seriously , If Cutler doesnt want to be here , give him his walking papers ....... everyone is replaceable..........

SportinOne
03-29-2009, 12:39 AM
Haha, I love the end of this game. Cutler throws to Royal and the announcers are shouting, "Overtime!"


.. Good ol' Shanahan

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 12:39 AM
name a player of his calibur and position and age that was traded

because i know you will say Montana, Favre and Young.

but in the case of Montana he had been in the league 13 years and had only played in 1 game the final 2 years of his time in San Francisco and in that time Young took over his position and kicked ass at it.

Favre played one season in Atlanta and threw something like 4 passes, 2 of which were intercepted

Young was a backup in Tampa.

so, i pose the question. Who at the age of 25, who played QB, and was coming off a pro bowl year has ever been traded?

you dont udnerstand do you? you are so obsessed with cutler that you arent looking at the total picture that mcdaniels saw. he could see trading for cassel and picks as a downgrade at QB, but given the system he does NOT need a world beater QB, however we DO need the picks to fix the real problem: defense

this was not a straight up trade cassel for cutler, so stop acting like it was. given mcdaniels system, it would be a near lateral move at QB plus extra picks to fix the defense.

SportinOne
03-29-2009, 12:41 AM
Okay , thats enough Cutler ass kissing ............. ;D
But seriously , If Cutler doesnt want to be here , give him his walking papers ....... everyone is replaceable..........

I think it's pretty obvious he's coming back at this point.

Spider
03-29-2009, 12:43 AM
I think it's pretty obvious he's coming back at this point.

If he wants to ......... it has to be something he wants though , not forced ...

Pick Six
03-29-2009, 12:45 AM
We need Cutler AND the guy Bowlen brought in to coach the team to be on the same page and attempt a winning season...:thumbsup:

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 01:00 AM
you dont udnerstand do you? you are so obsessed with cutler that you arent looking at the total picture that mcdaniels saw. he could see trading for cassel and picks as a downgrade at QB, but given the system he does NOT need a world beater QB, however we DO need the picks to fix the real problem: defense

this was not a straight up trade cassel for cutler, so stop acting like it was. given mcdaniels system, it would be a near lateral move at QB plus extra picks to fix the defense.

so we get picks too, i didn't see that.....wow you don't see much beyond McDaniels dick and ball bag do you?

so what if we got picks. we need help on the DL and DL takes a few years to become any good at. so we downgrade at QB and the offense gets worse, all the while we are waiting on the draft picks to pan out in a few seasons. so instead of having a rebuilding defense and a potent offense with a QB who is capable of winning on his own, we get a weak ass Cassel led offense and a rebuilding defense.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 01:25 AM
so we get picks too, i didn't see that.....wow you don't see much beyond McDaniels dick and ball bag do you?

so what if we got picks. we need help on the DL and DL takes a few years to become any good at. so we downgrade at QB and the offense gets worse, all the while we are waiting on the draft picks to pan out in a few seasons. so instead of having a rebuilding defense and a potent offense with a QB who is capable of winning on his own, we get a weak ass Cassel led offense and a rebuilding defense.

potent cutler offense: 370 pts
weak ass cassel led offense: 410 pts

what i see is a team that is in much more disarray then any one player can fix, and if it takes getting rid of a single player to fix the entire team, then that may be whats best for the team. i assume you are one of those "i will follow whatever team cutler is on" people?

JJJ
03-29-2009, 01:47 AM
(by the way I'm talking about the second game of the season)

...I'm convinced that there is only one quarterback in the NFL that is better than Cutler. His name is Peyton. Now, some will point out that Cutler was very inconsistent this year and had some pretty bad games. That's true, and it's a valid point that to be among the best at what you do you should do it on a consistent basis. But even "Mr. QB Rating" Rivers had at least 4 bad games. That's 1/4 of the season. I would say Jay had about 6 bad games. That's not a good thing at all, but my argument is that, when Cutler is at his best he's better than everyone not named Peyton Manning. Cutler has a little more physical ability but Peyton more than makes up for it with his brain. He is getting old, though.

:coach:

You should probably rewatch the second game.

But barring injury I essentially agree with your point and think that Cutler will likely stay in the top 5 QBs in the game for the next 6 to 7 years. No way he is top 2 though. Cleary he is not better than Brady.

It is still incredible to me that your management is trying to go out of their way to find a way to derail what clearly was a juggernaut offense in the making.

Everyone in the West was scared ****less if Cutler were to get a little more consistent, something all your rivals expected him to do over the next three years. We are only a little pissed this whole thing hasn't gotten him the hell out of the Division yet because sometimes QBs and coaching infighting can produce unexpectdly great results. We would rather not take that risk and kindly ask that you trade him immediately.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 02:26 AM
potent cutler offense: 370 pts
weak ass cassel led offense: 410 pts

what i see is a team that is in much more disarray then any one player can fix, and if it takes getting rid of a single player to fix the entire team, then that may be whats best for the team. i assume you are one of those "i will follow whatever team cutler is on" people?

nope, i am blue and orange to the core regardless of the douchebag coach who is destroying the team

on the scoring side of your argument, cassel had a running game to help him and his drives didn't constantly start inside his own 20.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 02:29 AM
You should probably rewatch the second game.

But barring injury I essentially agree with your point and think that Cutler will likely stay in the top 5 QBs in the game for the next 6 to 7 years. No way he is top 2 though. Cleary he is not better than Brady.

It is still incredible to me that your management is trying to go out of their way to find a way to derail what clearly was a juggernaut offense in the making.

Everyone in the West was scared ****less if Cutler were to get a little more consistent, something all your rivals expected him to do over the next three years. We are only a little pissed this whole thing hasn't gotten him the hell out of the Division yet because sometimes QBs and coaching infighting can produce unexpectdly great results. We would rather not take that risk and kindly ask that you trade him immediately.

before his injury i would agree with you completely, but until i see him return and play at the same high level he was at before injury, i am not really expecting him to be the world beater he was.

look at Carson Palmer. he was becoming one of the best in the league, got his knee injury and is no longer looking like an elite QB, and until Brady proves otherwise i am going to be of the thought that he might never return to form.

JJJ
03-29-2009, 02:59 AM
before his injury i would agree with you completely, but until i see him return and play at the same high level he was at before injury, i am not really expecting him to be the world beater he was.

look at Carson Palmer. he was becoming one of the best in the league, got his knee injury and is no longer looking like an elite QB, and until Brady proves otherwise i am going to be of the thought that he might never return to form.

Cinci is not NE on a lot of levels. Carson's supporting cast is not very... supportive.

If Rivers comes back from injury the way he did I don't see any problem with Brady getting back to form. Unfortunately I think that bastard has one or two more SBs left in him.

s0phr0syne
03-29-2009, 03:00 AM
before his injury i would agree with you completely, but until i see him return and play at the same high level he was at before injury, i am not really expecting him to be the world beater he was.

look at Carson Palmer. he was becoming one of the best in the league, got his knee injury and is no longer looking like an elite QB, and until Brady proves otherwise i am going to be of the thought that he might never return to form.



The thing that Brady has going in his favor is that his knee got shredded in September. Palmer's knee got dove into the first week of the playoffs (in January?). These atheletes get world class medical rehab., but even then there are limits on how quickly you can "push" to come back from an injury like that, and I think the Bengals chose poorly in making Palmer come back as fast as he had to.

Brady has had sufficient time, but you're right, there's still a chance that things won't return to normal for him, but he's in a much better position than most players that injure their knees and try to come back immediately the next season.

IMO, NFL teams need to exercise the PUP much more frequently with ACL/MCL/PCL injuries.


Sorry for completely off topic post.


JJJ, you suggested watching the 2nd DEN v SD game again...I assume you meant paying attention to the Tatum Bell show? :P

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 03:11 AM
Cinci is not NE on a lot of levels. Carson's supporting cast is not very... supportive.

If Rivers comes back from injury the way he did I don't see any problem with Brady getting back to form. Unfortunately I think that bastard has one or two more SBs left in him.

Rivers didn't have any infections or complications in his surgery. Brady had staph and then had to have 2 more surgeries after the initial procedure. so it probably isn't going as easy for him as it did for Rivers.

plus it seems more like Brady is more interested in the Hollywood life than he is about rehabbing the knee.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 03:14 AM
The thing that Brady has going in his favor is that his knee got shredded in September. Palmer's knee got dove into the first week of the playoffs (in January?). These atheletes get world class medical rehab., but even then there are limits on how quickly you can "push" to come back from an injury like that, and I think the Bengals chose poorly in making Palmer come back as fast as he had to.

Brady has had sufficient time, but you're right, there's still a chance that things won't return to normal for him, but he's in a much better position than most players that injure their knees and try to come back immediately the next season.

IMO, NFL teams need to exercise the PUP much more frequently with ACL/MCL/PCL injuries.


Sorry for completely off topic post.


JJJ, you suggested watching the 2nd DEN v SD game again...I assume you meant paying attention to the Tatum Bell show? :P

yeah. Palmer had 1 knee surgery rehabbed and probably came back a little too soon.

but even though Brady suffered the injury in September, he didn't have the initial surgery until middle of october, and then in december had a staph infection and had to have another surgery, and then recently had his knee scoped. he may have gotten the injury in September, but he was still having surgeries on the knee as recent as December or January.

Atwater His Ass
03-29-2009, 03:37 AM
Even with the injury, you have to give the nod to Brady over Cutler, hands down. As much as I hate the guy, he's earned with his on field performances.

And anyone that wants to trade Cutler for draft picks is just insane. Cutler is the kind of player you're hoping you can land in the draft; you don't just trade that away for a shot in the dark.

The whole school of thought that we don't need a "world beater" at QB to function and therefore can afford the trade is just beyond retarded. There is a reason 3rd year players coming off a Pro Bowl just coming into their prime NEVER get traded.

boltaneer
03-29-2009, 05:14 AM
Cutler is the second best quarterback in the NFL? I haven't laughed this hard in years!

He has the talent and potential to be that good but he's not even close to that distinction yet.

Dedhed
03-29-2009, 07:28 AM
Rivers didn't have any infections or complications in his surgery. Brady had staph and then had to have 2 more surgeries after the initial procedure. so it probably isn't going as easy for him as it did for Rivers.

plus it seems more like Brady is more interested in the Hollywood life than he is about rehabbing the knee.
This is complete conjecture trying to make up for a complete lack of information.

rad
03-29-2009, 07:59 AM
Even with the injury, you have to give the nod to Brady over Cutler, hands down. As much as I hate the guy, he's earned with his on field performances.

And anyone that wants to trade Cutler for draft picks is just insane. Cutler is the kind of player you're hoping you can land in the draft; you don't just trade that away for a shot in the dark.

The whole school of thought that we don't need a "world beater" at QB to function and therefore can afford the trade is just beyond retarded. There is a reason 3rd year players coming off a Pro Bowl just coming into their prime NEVER get traded.

Like Jared Allen?

Rock Chalk
03-29-2009, 08:05 AM
to the media he is saying the right things. but when it comes to actually talking to the guy he ****ed over, he is still trying to pull a power trip on him, instead of just squashing the problem and getting this **** over with

and yes, ignorance on his part is a perfect reason to hate him. he's an NFL coach, and instead of looking at the most talented player on his team and saying, i can make this guy better than anyone else in the league, and we can win championships together, he looked at his best player and thought, if only i had a less talented guy who knows my system i would be in great shape.

instead of looking at the challenge of making a pro bowler better than he already is, he wanted the easy way out and wanted a security blanket in the form of Cassel.

this is the NFL, and he is a HC in the NFL, **** is hard, and you can't just look for the easy way out, because it will blow up in your face and you will be looking for work

and on a side note, i agree Jay could grow a thicker skin, get over it, and tear it up, just to basically show McDaniels he was a fool to even contemplate trading him.


This is the dumbest post I have ever read.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-29-2009, 08:24 AM
name a player of his calibur and position and age that was traded

because i know you will say Montana, Favre and Young.

but in the case of Montana he had been in the league 13 years and had only played in 1 game the final 2 years of his time in San Francisco and in that time Young took over his position and kicked ass at it.

Favre played one season in Atlanta and threw something like 4 passes, 2 of which were intercepted

Young was a backup in Tampa.

so, i pose the question. Who at the age of 25, who played QB, and was coming off a pro bowl year has ever been traded?

Just so you know, you're incorrect on Young. He was a starter in Tampa. A backup in San Francisco.

Yes, Jay is younger than the other two examples. We also would have gotten significant value for him, HAD HE BEEN MOVED. He was not moved.

Hamrob
03-29-2009, 08:27 AM
you dont udnerstand do you? you are so obsessed with cutler that you arent looking at the total picture that mcdaniels saw. he could see trading for cassel and picks as a downgrade at QB, but given the system he does NOT need a world beater QB, however we DO need the picks to fix the real problem: defense

this was not a straight up trade cassel for cutler, so stop acting like it was. given mcdaniels system, it would be a near lateral move at QB plus extra picks to fix the defense.When the news first came out...the trade would have netted Cassell and a 3rd for Cutler at the end of the day.

Call it what you want...but that's damn near straight up. You can't believe a 3rd rounder is going to help you much.

Sure later on...after all kinds of stories have been printed...there has been speculation that teams would give us two 1's and a player...but really the deal that fell through supposedly was only Cassell and a 3rd to the Broncos.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-29-2009, 08:28 AM
When the news first came out...the trade would have netted Cassell and a 3rd for Cutler at the end of the day.

Call it what you want...but that's damn near straight up. You can't believe a 3rd rounder is going to help you much.

Sure later on...after all kinds of stories have been printed...there has been speculation that teams would give us two 1's and a player...but really the deal that fell through supposedly was only Cassell and a 3rd to the Broncos.

And the trade didn't happen. So what's the issue?

I honestly don't think McDaniels would have gone for that. I think he likely went back to that offer with "We need more." Then Cassel was moved to KC. And Cutler is a Bronco. It's over.

And yet here we are, a month later, making statements about things we don't know "We would have gotten Cassel and a third! McDaniels lied! Blah blah blah!"

I want Cutler here as much as anyone. I do not think he was EVER in danger of actually being moved.

WolfpackGuy
03-29-2009, 08:28 AM
Cutler still has some refining to do, but he is well on his way to being one of the best QB's in the game.

BlaK-Argentina
03-29-2009, 08:33 AM
Cutler is the second best quarterback in the NFL? I haven't laughed this hard in years!

He has the talent and potential to be that good but he's not even close to that distinction yet.

When he's playing at his best. (reeeeead before you type! ^5 )

Orange_Beard
03-29-2009, 08:34 AM
He's a hall of fame physical talent. There's no question. I hope it all works out.

But, that's all up to Jay.

I could see the thing going either way. I hope he straightens up and comes back into the fold.

I agree with this....

Right now I fear he will become the next Jeff George.

Hamrob
03-29-2009, 08:34 AM
Cutler is the second best quarterback in the NFL? I haven't laughed this hard in years!

He has the talent and potential to be that good but he's not even close to that distinction yet.Look...personally I think Jay is somewhere between 5-10 right now. Talent wise...he's top 2-3. He's only started two full seasons though...give him a break.

McDaniels...if he's really worth a turd...ought to be able to get him up in that top 5 area fairly quickly. Just on natural progression...I believe Jay would have been beating on that top-5 door this year.

In terms of a picking a side in this mess...I've leaned towards Cutler. For one, he's been our QB for 2.5yrs and for another, he's in a league of his own talent wise.

Having said that, I like McDaniels potential too. I really hope they fix this mess that their in...but I'd like to see McDaniels go to work for at least a year...before, I start defending his actions. Simply put, he hasn't shown us anything yet.

In fact...what was our biggest problem entering the offseason? I believe it was the Dline. It certainly wasn't Jay Cutler. So, how do you end up in this mess over Cutler and manage to not do a damn thing about the Dline?

Hamrob
03-29-2009, 08:37 AM
I agree with this....

Right now I fear he will become the next Jeff George.And I suppose that chrystal ball your looking into...is showing you that McDaniel's will turn into the next Vince Lombardi?

WolfpackGuy
03-29-2009, 08:38 AM
In fact...what was our biggest problem entering the offseason? I believe it was the Dline. It certainly wasn't Jay Cutler. So, how do you end up in this mess over Cutler and manage to not do a damn thing about the Dline?

Biggest worry for me as the defensive line has been one of the worst in the league for the last two years.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-29-2009, 08:40 AM
And I suppose that chrystal ball your looking into...is showing you that McDaniel's will turn into the next Vince Lombardi?

Don't need a crystal ball to see that McDaniels is showing up for work, and Jay is demanding to be traded.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-29-2009, 08:43 AM
In fact...what was our biggest problem entering the offseason? I believe it was the Dline. It certainly wasn't Jay Cutler. So, how do you end up in this mess over Cutler and manage to not do a damn thing about the Dline?

Our biggest problem was clearly the d-line. And we haven't done much. However, our d-line problems were not going to be solved in one off season; I think you know that. The draft will be a start. As long as we see improvement, which I think we will with better coaching, and add a few key players, we will be better on that side of the ball.

Rabb
03-29-2009, 09:17 AM
What happens if we happen to go 6-10 in 09? Will Cutler still want to be here in 2010? I hope they can last years together.

maybe it is just me but I thought 8-8 next year based on the schedule that was floating around would be a good year...and that was WITH Shanny before all this crap surfaced

Rabb
03-29-2009, 09:19 AM
In fact...what was our biggest problem entering the offseason? I believe it was the Dline. It certainly wasn't Jay Cutler. So, how do you end up in this mess over Cutler and manage to not do a damn thing about the Dline?

agreed, although Safety was a close ****ing second

Arkie
03-29-2009, 09:57 AM
In fact...what was our biggest problem entering the offseason? I believe it was the Dline. It certainly wasn't Jay Cutler. So, how do you end up in this mess over Cutler and manage to not do a damn thing about the Dline?

Imagine what we could do with the Dline if we traded Cutler for a few players and about a half dozen 1st and 2nd round picks over the next few years. It's good to listen to offers because you never know what you may get.

400HZ
03-29-2009, 10:06 AM
Yeeeeeaaaaa man. Tom Brady needs to PROVE that he's better than Jay. What has that assshole ever done?
http://www.collegehumor.com/pictures/1618686.jpg

SportinOne
03-29-2009, 10:39 AM
Cutler is the second best quarterback in the NFL? I haven't laughed this hard in years!

He has the talent and potential to be that good but he's not even close to that distinction yet.

Bolt, read the entire original post before you comment. What i was getting at is precisely what you just said. When Jay is at his best, it is my opinion that only Peyton is better. He's just not consistent and not mature enough as a qb yet to do it every sunday. Hopefully one day he will.

Also, while I agree that Brady is a top 5 qb, he wasn't putting up big offensive numbers until Moss came into the fold. If you want to give him credit because he won superbowls, fine, but the guy had one great offensive season and it wasn't until Moss came in that it happened. Before Moss, he was Matt Hasselbeck.

Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2000 NWE 1 1 3 33.3 6 2.0 0 6 0 42.4
2001 NWE 15 264 413 63.9 2843 6.9 18 91 12 86.5
2002 NWE 16 373 601 62.1 3764 6.3 28 49 14 85.7
2003 NWE 16 317 527 60.2 3620 6.9 23 82 12 85.9
2004 NWE 16 288 474 60.8 3692 7.8 28 50 14 92.6
2005 NWE 16 334 530 63.0 4110 7.8 26 71 14 92.3
2006 NWE 16 319 516 61.8 3529 6.8 24 62 12 87.9
2007 NWE 16 398 578 68.9 4806 8.3 50 69 8 117.2
2008 NWE 1 7 11 63.6 76 6.9 0 26 0 83.9

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 10:43 AM
And the trade didn't happen. So what's the issue?

I honestly don't think McDaniels would have gone for that. I think he likely went back to that offer with "We need more." Then Cassel was moved to KC. And Cutler is a Bronco. It's over.

And yet here we are, a month later, making statements about things we don't know "We would have gotten Cassel and a third! McDaniels lied! Blah blah blah!"

I want Cutler here as much as anyone. I do not think he was EVER in danger of actually being moved.

didnt mcdaniels say a couple times that he said no to the trade after hearing the talks because we werent going to get enough...

boltaneer
03-29-2009, 11:33 AM
Bolt, read the entire original post before you comment. What i was getting at is precisely what you just said. When Jay is at his best, it is my opinion that only Peyton is better. He's just not consistent and not mature enough as a qb yet to do it every sunday. Hopefully one day he will.

I didn't misunderstand what you wrote. (When he's at his best) or not, I still don't think he's anywhere near the second best in the NFL. He has not done anything to warrant that kind of praise.

Of course, you have your opinion and I have mine but my opinion is that, it's an absurd statement.

Inkana7
03-29-2009, 12:44 PM
Bolt, read the entire original post before you comment. What i was getting at is precisely what you just said. When Jay is at his best, it is my opinion that only Peyton is better. He's just not consistent and not mature enough as a qb yet to do it every sunday. Hopefully one day he will.

Also, while I agree that Brady is a top 5 qb, he wasn't putting up big offensive numbers until Moss came into the fold. If you want to give him credit because he won superbowls, fine, but the guy had one great offensive season and it wasn't until Moss came in that it happened. Before Moss, he was Matt Hasselbeck.

Passing Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2000 NWE 1 1 3 33.3 6 2.0 0 6 0 42.4
2001 NWE 15 264 413 63.9 2843 6.9 18 91 12 86.5
2002 NWE 16 373 601 62.1 3764 6.3 28 49 14 85.7
2003 NWE 16 317 527 60.2 3620 6.9 23 82 12 85.9
2004 NWE 16 288 474 60.8 3692 7.8 28 50 14 92.6
2005 NWE 16 334 530 63.0 4110 7.8 26 71 14 92.3
2006 NWE 16 319 516 61.8 3529 6.8 24 62 12 87.9
2007 NWE 16 398 578 68.9 4806 8.3 50 69 8 117.2
2008 NWE 1 7 11 63.6 76 6.9 0 26 0 83.9

While looking at these numbers, it is interesting to note that McDaniels became his QB coach in 2004, and OC in 2005.

2KBack
03-29-2009, 01:16 PM
Drew Brees is still better than cutler by a mile.


oh yeah, and he was released from his first team when he was 26 years old

Circle Orange
03-29-2009, 01:33 PM
present appearances are not future results. :)

fall not in love with shells, but substance.

the proof is in the pudding.

the grass is always greener on the other side.

look before you leap.

If you can't win 'em over with truth, dazzle 'em with bull****.;D

Xenos
03-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Drew Brees is still better than cutler by a mile.


oh yeah, and he was released from his first team when he was 26 years old
He also had a potential career ending injury to his throwing arm. And only two teams were interested in him after his contract expired. One dropped out of the sweepstake after the medical examination. And the second provided a opt out option in the contract if he didn't fully recover.

2KBack
03-29-2009, 02:00 PM
He also had a potential career ending injury to his throwing arm. And only two teams were interested in him after his contract expired. One dropped out of the sweepstake after the medical examination. And the second provided a opt out option in the contract if he didn't fully recover.

Bree's injury was a convenient excuse for the front office to get rid of Brees for their new toy. Bree's started a whole 26 games before his replacement was drafted, and when Brees turned out to be a fantastic QB, SD was stuck.

It's not hard to put injury clauses in a contract, and I think there was a lot more interest in Brees than you say. especially when you consider that he was injured in the lasy game of 2005, but managed to shake off the injury in time to be an MVP candidate in 2006.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 02:05 PM
This is complete conjecture trying to make up for a complete lack of information.

conjecture. no it isn't. he had as many as 3 surgeries on the same knee this offseason. and so far i haven't heard much about his rehabbing the knee. all i have heard is him vacationing with Giselle, getting married, throwing parties. i haven't seen any news about him working his ass off to make sure that knee is healthy come september.

he probably is rehabbing, but lately he has become a media whore, and seems to be liking that life.

i'm not knocking the dude for enjoying all the good things in his life, it just to me seems like he isn't as interested in rehabbing as he is in the hollywood lifestyle

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 02:09 PM
Just so you know, you're incorrect on Young. He was a starter in Tampa. A backup in San Francisco.

Yes, Jay is younger than the other two examples. We also would have gotten significant value for him, HAD HE BEEN MOVED. He was not moved.

YET!

until Jay is brought back into Denver, and personally says it is over and that he and McDaniels have straightened this **** out, i am still convinced he can be traded. and if not this offseason, next offseason when Cassel is available again. so until all parties involved say he is going nowhere, i am not going to believe a thing about that McDaniels says concerning this situation.

ZONA
03-29-2009, 02:11 PM
people point out all his inconsistencies, but no QB in the NFL is gonna be any good when they know they have to score on every drive to even be competitive in teh game. you have to pass 40 times and 1/10 of them have to be TDs to even have a chance at winning. good luck!

Not totally true. Petyon Manning knew for years his offense had to score 30 or more to win and they usually did. It wasn't until their Superbowl run when their defense stepped up and helped out.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 02:17 PM
Not totally true. Petyon Manning knew for years his offense had to score 30 or more to win and they usually did. It wasn't until their Superbowl run when their defense stepped up and helped out.

he also won 1 game his first year in the NFL....


and also, what you are saying is that in order for his team to be competitive in the playoffs they had to have a defense too?

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 02:24 PM
I didn't misunderstand what you wrote. (When he's at his best) or not, I still don't think he's anywhere near the second best in the NFL. He has not done anything to warrant that kind of praise.

Of course, you have your opinion and I have mine but my opinion is that, it's an absurd statement.

give him a defense and there would be absolutely no questioning how good he is.

400HZ
03-29-2009, 02:40 PM
give him a defense and there would be absolutely no questioning how good he is.

Hilarious!

1 Philip Rivers 105.5
2 Chad Pennington 97.4
3 Kurt Warner 96.9
4 Drew Brees 96.2
5 Peyton Manning 95.0
6 Aaron Rodgers 93.8
7 Matt Schaub 92.7
8 Tony Romo 91.4
9 Jeff Garcia 90.2
10 Matt Cassel 89.4
11 Matt Ryan 87.7
12 Shaun Hill 87.5
13 Seneca Wallace 87.0
14 Eli Manning 86.4
14 Donovan McNabb 86.4
16 Jay Cutler 86.0

Xenos
03-29-2009, 02:42 PM
Bree's injury was a convenient excuse for the front office to get rid of Brees for their new toy. Bree's started a whole 26 games before his replacement was drafted, and when Brees turned out to be a fantastic QB, SD was stuck.

It's not hard to put injury clauses in a contract, and I think there was a lot more interest in Brees than you say. especially when you consider that he was injured in the lasy game of 2005, but managed to shake off the injury in time to be an MVP candidate in 2006.
And yet, only two teams interviewed him.

He also had an injury that even he admitted was potentially career ending. And that he was worried that play with Warren would be his last play in a uniform.

In the end, he went to the team that paid him the most guaranteed money, saying that it was the team that believed in him the most. And yet, the Saints even had a clause where they could let him go after the first year if he didn't fully recover.

It would have been nice to franchise tag him and trade him. But considering that he would have signed that tag faster than the ink could dry, it would have foolish to do so considering that no team would have interest if that had happened.

You also have to take into account that he had only one good year in 2004, while his 2005 season was pretty inconsistent. He was also plagued with a lot of natural problems when he was with SD. He rarely could throw slants because of his size. And he problems beating teams that stacked the line with eight men.

BabyTO
03-29-2009, 02:58 PM
I've re-watched Cutler vs. Oakland and...
(by the way I'm talking about the second game of the season)

...I'm convinced that there is only one quarterback in the NFL that is worse than Cutler. His name is Kyle Boller.

400HZ
03-29-2009, 03:02 PM
And yet, only two teams interviewed him.

He also had an injury that even he admitted was potentially career ending. And that he was worried that play with Warren would be his last play in a uniform.

In the end, he went to the team that paid him the most guaranteed money, saying that it was the team that believed in him the most. And yet, the Saints even had a clause where they could let him go after the first year if he didn't fully recover.

It would have been nice to franchise tag him and trade him. But considering that he would have signed that tag faster than the ink could dry, it would have foolish to do so considering that no team would have interest if that had happened.

You also have to take into account that he had only one good year in 2004, while his 2005 season was pretty inconsistent. He was also plagued with a lot of natural problems when he was with SD. He rarely could throw slants because of his size. And he problems beating teams that stacked the line with eight men.

A lot of analysts thought that Daunte Culpepper was a safer bet than Brees and he only got Minneapolis a second round pick. Brees ended up getting the Chargers a 3rd. They probably could have gotten more trying to tag and trade, but like you said there was alot of risk involved with that.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-29-2009, 03:07 PM
YET!

until Jay is brought back into Denver, and personally says it is over and that he and McDaniels have straightened this **** out, i am still convinced he can be traded. and if not this offseason, next offseason when Cassel is available again. so until all parties involved say he is going nowhere, i am not going to believe a thing about that McDaniels says concerning this situation.

So, it seems you're actually ROOTING for this to continue. You'd rather be right about McDaniels than have Cutler here.

Sick, sick thing you've got happening.

rastaman
03-29-2009, 03:32 PM
He's a hall of fame physical talent. There's no question. I hope it all works out.

But, that's all up to Jay.

I could see the thing going either way. I hope he straightens up and comes back into the fold.

Don't worry Jay is going to be fine. Cutler will have more seasons as a Pro Bowl QB than McDaniels will have as a Head Coach. I think McDaniels is a career Offensive Coordinator. I see Bowlen firing McDaniels in 3 to 4 years.

Question is, will Cutler have a 16 year career as a Bronco or will he have a 6 or 7 year career in Denver.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 03:32 PM
Hilarious!

1 Philip Rivers 105.5
2 Chad Pennington 97.4
3 Kurt Warner 96.9
4 Drew Brees 96.2
5 Peyton Manning 95.0
6 Aaron Rodgers 93.8
7 Matt Schaub 92.7
8 Tony Romo 91.4
9 Jeff Garcia 90.2
10 Matt Cassel 89.4
11 Matt Ryan 87.7
12 Shaun Hill 87.5
13 Seneca Wallace 87.0
14 Eli Manning 86.4
14 Donovan McNabb 86.4
16 Jay Cutler 86.0

John Elway, the GOAT had a career passer rating of 81, so don't even try pulling passer rating as an example of how good a QB is

2KBack
03-29-2009, 03:32 PM
And yet, only two teams interviewed him.

He also had an injury that even he admitted was potentially career ending. And that he was worried that play with Warren would be his last play in a uniform.

In the end, he went to the team that paid him the most guaranteed money, saying that it was the team that believed in him the most. And yet, the Saints even had a clause where they could let him go after the first year if he didn't fully recover.

It would have been nice to franchise tag him and trade him. But considering that he would have signed that tag faster than the ink could dry, it would have foolish to do so considering that no team would have interest if that had happened.

You also have to take into account that he had only one good year in 2004, while his 2005 season was pretty inconsistent. He was also plagued with a lot of natural problems when he was with SD. He rarely could throw slants because of his size. And he problems beating teams that stacked the line with eight men.


So, I'm not sure what we are actually discussing. Do you disagree that Drew Brees is better than Cutler?

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 03:36 PM
So, it seems you're actually ROOTING for this to continue. You'd rather be right about McDaniels than have Cutler here.

Sick, sick thing you've got happening.

no i am simply saying i don't believe a single word that comes from McDaniels, and never will. but with KC not having locked down Cassel long term yet, and the fact that this situation with Jay isn't being resolved, means Jay could still be traded at any time within the next year. this year more than likely he is safe, because we can't get anyone else with any talent to come in and take over, but next season when Cassel is free(if KC doesn't sign him long term) i won't be surprised to see McDaniels start this **** again.

i want Jay here, and McDaniels gone, but since a can't get that, i want Cutler given a new deal and a large portion of it guaranteed, so that McDaniels can't do anything but deal with jay

Hamrob
03-29-2009, 03:42 PM
Hilarious!

1 Philip Rivers 105.5
2 Chad Pennington 97.4
3 Kurt Warner 96.9
4 Drew Brees 96.2
5 Peyton Manning 95.0
6 Aaron Rodgers 93.8
7 Matt Schaub 92.7
8 Tony Romo 91.4
9 Jeff Garcia 90.2
10 Matt Cassel 89.4
11 Matt Ryan 87.7
12 Shaun Hill 87.5
13 Seneca Wallace 87.0
14 Eli Manning 86.4
14 Donovan McNabb 86.4
16 Jay Cutler 86.0I happen to believe that John Elway was the best to ever play the position and his lifetime passer rating was 79.9...so what are you trying to suggest with this hilarious post?

rastaman
03-29-2009, 03:45 PM
give him a defense and there would be absolutely no questioning how good he is.

Hell give Cutler a running attack......and there would be no question how good he is!!!:strong:

Hamrob
03-29-2009, 03:47 PM
So, I'm not sure what we are actually discussing. Do you disagree that Drew Brees is better than Cutler?Yeah, I think Jay cutler is just as good right now as Brees:

Check out the first 3yrs for Drew Brees:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm

By the way...I happen to like Brees...but he did throw 17 int's this year and 18 int's last year. Not exactly what you would consider to be the stats of a superior QB in my opinion.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 03:49 PM
Hell give Cutler a running attack......and there would be no question how good he is!!!:strong:

true it will keep defenses in check and Jay gets open passing lanes instead of having to throw into double coverage all the time because the defense won't be able to drop 7-8 into coverage anymore

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 03:57 PM
cutler with hillis starting in 5 games:

9 TD, 4 int
189 attempts, 118 completions
1510 yards in 5 games (302/game)
2 sacks taken
29.4 ppg
18.8 ppg allowed
and record: 4-1

just saying.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 04:07 PM
cutler with hillis starting in 5 games:

9 TD, 4 int
189 attempts, 118 completions
1510 yards in 5 games (302/game)
2 sacks taken
29.4 ppg
18.8 ppg allowed
and record: 4-1

just saying.

we got to play a little bit of controlling the clock with the running game and kept the defense off the field and lowering the points allowed per game, the defense had to keep 7 or 8 in the box at all times giving Jay open passing lanes to hit open targets and not have to force passes.

running game and a defense allowing 20 a game for Jay and he will destroy teams and we will win a **** load of games

AbileneBroncoFan
03-29-2009, 04:07 PM
I knew after watching Jay in his first preseason he was something special. He has the strongest arm in the NFL without question, and when he is extremely accurate when at his best. I'm talking Manning accurate. True, he does make some bad throws, but with good coaching and a little more experience (not to mention a better defense to take the pressure off), these will become less and less frequent. What is most impressive though, is his pocket presence. I have never seen a guy move around in the pocket and step up and make perfect throws at such a young age. I have a wall in my house where I have autographed plaques of some of the greatest quarterbacks of all time hanging. I added Jay Cutler to the wall last Christmas. I am that confident in what kind of a career he is going to have.

bayarealightning
03-29-2009, 04:59 PM
Everyone always talk about Cutler's physical attributes. However, we all know that it takes more to be a successfull QB than arm strength. Cutler is great between the 20s. In the red zone, the passing area get tight and accuracy and decision making becomes paramount. Cutler has too many turnovers in crunchtime and/or in the red zone to even say that he is the second best QB in the league (best day or not). David Garrard (on his best day) is a better QB than... (you can fill in the blank).

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-29-2009, 05:10 PM
no i am simply saying i don't believe a single word that comes from McDaniels, and never will. but with KC not having locked down Cassel long term yet, and the fact that this situation with Jay isn't being resolved, means Jay could still be traded at any time within the next year. this year more than likely he is safe, because we can't get anyone else with any talent to come in and take over, but next season when Cassel is free(if KC doesn't sign him long term) i won't be surprised to see McDaniels start this **** again.

i want Jay here, and McDaniels gone, but since a can't get that, i want Cutler given a new deal and a large portion of it guaranteed, so that McDaniels can't do anything but deal with jay

So even if Jay comes back, and says the stories told about him being traded were blown completely out of proportion, that he's back with Josh and working things out and is excited about the future of the team with him at the helm, and even if the Chiefs sign Cassel to a long-term deal, you'll never believe what Josh McDaniels has to say? Doesn't that seem a little... I don't know... stupid?

TheChamp24
03-29-2009, 05:20 PM
I think Cutler has the ability to become a true great, but he gets mistake prone. First San Diego game, forced a throw in the red zone, picked off, and then of course the "fumble".
However, of course, he came right back and threw two perfect darts to Eddie Royal.
When he is on, he is a force, evidenced by the first half in the San Diego game, the Oakland game. But then, there is the second Oakland game, the Miami game, games where he looked like a guy who is a 7th rounder starting in place of the injured starting QB.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 06:32 PM
So even if Jay comes back, and says the stories told about him being traded were blown completely out of proportion, that he's back with Josh and working things out and is excited about the future of the team with him at the helm, and even if the Chiefs sign Cassel to a long-term deal, you'll never believe what Josh McDaniels has to say? Doesn't that seem a little... I don't know... stupid?

it took him less than a month to be proven a liar. and in my book once a liar, always a liar.

he comes from the Belicheat school of coaching where nothing is honest or as it seems. so even before this situation i was still taking all his words with a grain of salt.

doesn't it seem a little stupid that so many including you are blindly following a coach who has yet to do anything of note in his current job, over a guy who has carried the team the last 37 games and is coming off a pro bowl years?

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 06:39 PM
Everyone always talk about Cutler's physical attributes. However, we all know that it takes more to be a successfull QB than arm strength. Cutler is great between the 20s. In the red zone, the passing area get tight and accuracy and decision making becomes paramount. Cutler has too many turnovers in crunchtime and/or in the red zone to even say that he is the second best QB in the league (best day or not). David Garrard (on his best day) is a better QB than... (you can fill in the blank).

David Garrard has MJD to pound defenders into submission in the red zone. he isn't asked to throw TD passes, just get the team down the field and let the running game take care of the rest.

if you get Cutler a running game, his numbers will trump the majority of the league, in and out of the red zone.

everyone swinging on McDaniels nuts and ready to toss Jay aside are not factoring in, that in his entire time as a starter he has had to go at it alone. no help from the running game, no defensive help to limit opposition scoring and not make it imperitive for Jay to know he needs to score every single time he is on the field, or that his average starting position for his drives is inside his 20, meaning he is having to drive 80 yards or more every single time he is on the field.

everything has been stacked against him, and he has been overcoming everything. it is a miracle he is 17-20 in his career, any other QB would at best be 10-27 over the same period of time. the fact that everyone says he throws too many INTs, he has almost a 2-1 ratio on TDs to INTs.

his performance and numbers are incredible considering what he has had to work with. get the guy some help, and he is undoubtedly a top 5 QB in the league

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 06:43 PM
i think its absolutely stupid that all the cutler nut swingers feel they need to pick sides, where as nearly everyone else has accepted teh reality that BOTH will be here next year. get the **** over it already and enjoy the god damn game, seriously.

broncswin
03-29-2009, 06:53 PM
Don't need a crystal ball to see that McDaniels is showing up for work, and Jay is demanding to be traded.

How come everytime someone says something that could be negative about Cutler, people just assume they must side with McD and vise versa.

Danm fellas this is like a girls locker room sessionHilarious!

Spider
03-29-2009, 06:55 PM
If coutler comes back , I want him to be great ........ If not then I want him to suck dog ****

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 08:37 PM
When the news first came out...the trade would have netted Cassell and a 3rd for Cutler at the end of the day.

Call it what you want...but that's damn near straight up. You can't believe a 3rd rounder is going to help you much.

Sure later on...after all kinds of stories have been printed...there has been speculation that teams would give us two 1's and a player...but really the deal that fell through supposedly was only Cassell and a 3rd to the Broncos.

You've just explained why the trade never took place.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 08:48 PM
You've just explained why the trade never took place.

exactly. people act like mcdaniels is an idiot, if the trade would have happened, we would have gotten a lot more out of it then any of bitchers think we would have.

400HZ
03-29-2009, 09:18 PM
John Elway, the GOAT had a career passer rating of 81, so don't even try pulling passer rating as an example of how good a QB is

He didn't play in a football era custom tailored for quarterbacks and the passing game. He also won games. Amazing considering how weak his arm was compared to Cutler's.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 09:18 PM
exactly. people act like mcdaniels is an idiot, if the trade would have happened, we would have gotten a lot more out of it then any of b****ers think we would have.

he is an idiot, because anything we realistically could have gotten in return for Jay isn't enough, unless we get back a 25 year old pro bowl QB who has barely scratched the surface of his potential

draft picks are just shots in the dark, and at best in 3 years they pan out. a replacement player is nowhere near the calibur of Jay.

so he is an idiot for even slightly considering it. it is a damn near certainty, that if Tampa or Detroit called Dallas about Romo for Cassel and a 3rd(which is what was presented to us for Jay) Jones would have laughed his ass off and hung up the phone without another thought and nothing would happen in the media.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 09:20 PM
exactly. people act like mcdaniels is an idiot, if the trade would have happened, we would have gotten a lot more out of it then any of b****ers think we would have.

Cassel and a 3rd is what we would have gotten and that is an ass raping.

so because he considered for even a second, he is a ****ing idiot

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 09:21 PM
He didn't play in a football era custom tailored for quarterbacks and the passing game. He also won games. Amazing considering how weak his arm was compared to Cutler's.

he also had a capable defense. Jay has played on a team with defenses a high school JV team could shred

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 09:33 PM
Cassel and a 3rd is what we would have gotten and that is an ass raping.

so because he considered for even a second, he is a ****ing idiot

You have absolutely no idea how that discussion went down or if Cassel and a 3rd was ever proposed to McDaniels.

You're making sh*t up now. ;D.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 09:42 PM
You have absolutely no idea how that discussion went down or if Cassel and a 3rd was ever proposed to McDaniels.

You're making sh*t up now. ;D.

it has been well documented in numerous articles and posts on here that the deal was we got Cassel and a 3rd in exchange for Cutler.

you need to read and check in on **** before you try to bash other people

BlaK-Argentina
03-29-2009, 09:48 PM
exactly. people act like mcdaniels is an idiot, if the trade would have happened, we would have gotten a lot more out of it then any of b****ers think we would have.

I'm usually on the same page with you, but you have to agree that if the reports of a Cassel + 3rd for Cutler were true and he wanted to do it... then he is a bigger idiot than we thought.

I don't think that was the case though.

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 09:51 PM
it has been well documented in numerous articles and posts on here that the deal was we got Cassel and a 3rd in exchange for Cutler.

you need to read and check in on **** before you try to bash other people


I've read what happened.....there was no deal.

So what exactly are you complaining about?? That McDaniels didn't take the 'deal'?? Or that he should have?? Which is it? ???

If you've seen this 'deal' in print, post it with a link so we can see the source.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 10:00 PM
I've read what happened.....there was no deal.

So what exactly are you complaining about?? That McDaniels didn't take the 'deal'?? Or that he should have?? Which is it? ???

If you've seen this 'deal' in print, post it with a link so we can see the source.

the point is his stupidity in even considering a deal that bad is a major red flag on him and points to him being completely incompetent and not ready to be a HC in the NFL

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 10:12 PM
I'm usually on the same page with you, but you have to agree that if the reports of a Cassel + 3rd for Cutler were true and he wanted to do it... then he is a bigger idiot than we thought.

I don't think that was the case though.

i would never, ever make that trade. and neither would mcdaniels apparently ;)

thats what was offered, mcdaniels even said he only fielded offers that other teams proposed him, he put no serious thought into any of them, then the trade was over and he moved on. he didnt go out TRYING to make a trade like that happen obviously

rovolution
03-29-2009, 10:59 PM
He didn't play in a football era custom tailored for quarterbacks and the passing game. He also won games. Amazing considering how weak his arm was compared to Cutler's.

Joe Montana Steve Young Dan Marino and Brett Favre disagree with your first point. hell even Boomer Esiason and Warren Moon disagree with your point. (All Elway era QBs)

Elway had some of the best scoring defenses in the league during his time in Denver. Atwaters Dennis smiths, Mecklenburgs, rulon joneses we had Pro Bowl players on D during the Elway era. We have champ bailey and a bunch of crap in the Jay Cutler era on D.

Phillip has a great D as well. Thats why hes won a lot of games in this league. Hes had Phillips and Merrimans and Jamal Williames and Cromarties to help him win.

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:03 PM
Joe Montana Steve Young Dan Marino and Brett Favre disagree with your first point. hell even Boomer Esiason and Warren Moon disagree with your point. (All Elway era QBs)

Elway had some of the best scoring defenses in the league during his time in Denver. Atwaters Dennis smiths, Mecklenburgs, rulon joneses we had Pro Bowl players on D during the Elway era. We have champ bailey and a bunch of crap in the Jay Cutler era on D.

Phillip has a great D as well. Thats why hes won a lot of games in this league. Hes had Phillips and Merrimans and Jamal Williames and Cromarties to help him win.

So has Tom Brady. Trying to wrap that fact into an argument that Cutler is better than him is still ridiculous.

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:07 PM
Everyone always talk about Cutler's physical attributes. However, we all know that it takes more to be a successfull QB than arm strength. Cutler is great between the 20s. In the red zone, the passing area get tight and accuracy and decision making becomes paramount. Cutler has too many turnovers in crunchtime and/or in the red zone to even say that he is the second best QB in the league (best day or not). David Garrard (on his best day) is a better QB than... (you can fill in the blank).
No , between the 20's is a different game , and to suggest Cutler loses it in the red zone is idiotic , what killed Cutler and helped Gerrard is power running in the redzone .......turnovers , all of that is due from the lack of a power run game ... Defenses can defend the pass alot easier against the Broncos then the Jags ,Defenders had to keep an eye on Jones Drew , when Denver started Hillis Cutler was a much different QB , then when hillis went down , so did Cutlers performance .....I dont mind opposing fans coming and talking ..... I just wish they knew what in the **** they was talking about .......

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:09 PM
Look people it all breaks down rather simple . Power running is the key , I dont know the stats , but Denvers offense and Defense was alot better when we ran Hillis ......... Move the Chains ......

boltaneer
03-29-2009, 11:13 PM
What's great about the Cutler homers over time is that last year, they pointed out how much he was better than Rivers because of his QB rating. And now they defend him by saying QB rating is meaningless.

Not that I think QB rating is the end all measure of a QB but the change of attitude is very amusing...

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:13 PM
No , between the 20's is a different game , and to suggest Cutler loses it in the red zone is idiotic , what killed Cutler and helped Gerrard is power running in the redzone .......turnovers , all of that is due from the lack of a power run game ... Defenses can defend the pass alot easier against the Broncos then the Jags ,Defenders had to keep an eye on Jones Drew , when Denver started Hillis Cutler was a much different QB , then when hillis went down , so did Cutlers performance .....I dont mind opposing fans coming and talking ..... I just wish they knew what in the **** they was talking about .......

Yes. Poor Jay and his 12th ranked rushing attack.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 11:18 PM
What's great about the Cutler homers over time is that last year, they pointed out how much he was better than Rivers because of his QB rating. And now they defend him by saying QB rating is meaningless.

Not that I think QB rating is the end all measure of a QB but the change of attitude is very amusing...

if i were you guys id be on this board in full force. cutler is being a pussy and half the fans on this board are being bigger ones. if its funny to me, its gotta be awesome for you guys.

OABB
03-29-2009, 11:20 PM
Yes. Poor Jay and his 12th ranked rushing attack.

don't forget the 30th ranked scoring D in your stat list either.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 11:21 PM
Look people it all breaks down rather simple . Power running is the key , I dont know the stats , but Denvers offense and Defense was alot better when we ran Hillis ......... Move the Chains ......

the entire team looked better when Hillis was toting the rock.

Cutler in the 5 games Hillis started had 9TDs to 4INTs, 1500 yards passing, we were putting up 30 a game, and the defense was allowing 19 a game.

those stats right there, perfectly illustrate, that if this team has a good running game it makes the defense look better, and help Jay by opening things up for him. it also shows that if we decided to take Wells, Moreno, Brown, Greene, or Jennings in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft, that it is a very good pick, and makes the entire team better, not just the offense.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 11:25 PM
Yes. Poor Jay and his 12th ranked rushing attack.

that goes by YPC, and our YPC was inflated, because it either came from inconsistency and short yardage and no gain runs followed by a 20 yard burst, or it happened because defenses were playing the pass and completely disregarded our running game outside of the games Hillis started.

there was no consistency in the running game, and because of that, it was completely disregarded making the supposed 12th ranked rushing game, a load of crap

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 11:27 PM
What's great about the Cutler homers over time is that last year, they pointed out how much he was better than Rivers because of his QB rating. And now they defend him by saying QB rating is meaningless.

Not that I think QB rating is the end all measure of a QB but the change of attitude is very amusing...

i am a huge Cutler fan, but i am not kidding myself. as much as i hate to say this, i am going to be honest, Rivers owns us right now, and until Jay does something about it, he is ranked behind Rivers.

now, i do believe in the long run, when it is all said and done, Jay will go down as the better QB. higher ceiling, and more natural ability.

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:28 PM
that goes by YPC, and our YPC was inflated, because it either came from inconsistency and short yardage and no gain runs followed by a 20 yard burst, or it happened because defenses were playing the pass and completely disregarded our running game outside of the games Hillis started.

there was no consistency in the running game, and because of that, it was completely disregarded making the supposed 12th ranked rushing game, a load of crap

12th in total yards guy. 2nd in yards per carry. Quite a lot for Jay to overcome, regardless. Right?

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:29 PM
don't forget the 30th ranked scoring D in your stat list either.

I wasn't talking about Jay's crappy win total. I was talking about his crappy passer rating.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 11:31 PM
if i were you guys id be on this board in full force. cutler is being a p***Y and half the fans on this board are being bigger ones. if its funny to me, its gotta be awesome for you guys.

if you feel that way why don't you jump on the Chargers bandwagon and go swing from Rivers nuts.

trying to fault us fans who are backing our QB, is a completely retarded thing to do, and a real fan would know that.

i have no problem with the fans here who feel that McDaniels is doing a good job. i don't understand it, but they have their reasons, and are looking at what they think is in the best interest of the Broncos, same as the Cutler backers think he is the best thing for the Broncos.

however you are just being a troll, trying to piss everyone off. i welcome the Chargers fans and BOB more than you, because at least they have things of worth to say occasionally, you are just another Mel Kiper on this board

OABB
03-29-2009, 11:32 PM
12th in total yards guy. 2nd in yards per carry. Quite a lot for Jay to overcome, regardless. Right?

Did you read that part about the 30th ranked scoring D?

btw, what was the biggest difference between your 14-2 year and your 8-8 year? Did it have something to do with your Defense? Hmmm?

Rivers was one of the top rated qb's in the league, but he only went 8-8 just like Cutler....hmmmmmm?


edit: just saw your post above...nevermind this

OABB
03-29-2009, 11:33 PM
I wasn't talking about Jay's crappy win total. I was talking about his crappy passer rating.

he had a crappy passer rating?

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:34 PM
Yes. Poor Jay and his 12th ranked rushing attack.

what does the 12 th ranked rushing have to do with Power running ?
do you know what power running is ? No you dont you Idiot

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:34 PM
Did you read that part about the 30th ranked scoring D?

btw, what was the biggest difference between your 14-2 year and your 8-8 year? Did it have something to do with your Defense? Hmmm?

Rivers was one of the top rated qb's in the league, but he only went 8-8 just like Cutler....hmmmmmm?

Like I said...

I wasn't talking about wins I was talking about individual performance.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 11:35 PM
12th in total yards guy. 2nd in yards per carry. Quite a lot for Jay to overcome, regardless. Right?

once again, it comes down to yards. there was no scoring threat outside of Pittman and Hillis who were available a total of like 7 games.

those stats are inflated, they come from runs in between the 20's and that is it. there was no red zone rushing threat which is what was needed to help Jay.

we were the 2nd ranked offense last season in yards, but 16th in points, so we weren't that great on offense, and that falls on having a very mediocre running game.

SD had a down year rushing last season, but LT and Sproles still got into the end zone and were still of use in the red zone, our RBs weren't doing either of those things

OABB
03-29-2009, 11:36 PM
Like I said...

I wasn't talking about wins I was talking about individual performance.

yeah, I caught that one late....

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:36 PM
12th in total yards guy. 2nd in yards per carry. Quite a lot for Jay to overcome, regardless. Right?

And what does this have to do with power running ? Like I say I dont mind you guys coming around ......... I just wish you knew what in the **** you was yapping about ........

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:37 PM
what does the 12 th ranked rushing have to do with Power running ?
do you know what power running is ? No you dont you Idiot

Power running is having five big strong and athletic linemen in front of you driving guys back. Something that the Broncos did indeed have. Unless you want to argue that, too?

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Power running is having five big strong and athletic linemen in front of you driving guys back. Something that the Broncos did indeed have. Unless you want to argue that, too?

No you ****ing Idiot ......... Power running is controlling the POA ........ you got to have that FB and TE that can control ..........

OABB
03-29-2009, 11:41 PM
My fantasy is having five big strong and athletic linemen behind me driving feces deep into my back. Something that the Broncos did indeed have. Unless you want to argue that, too?

The RB has something to do with that, no?

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:42 PM
good grief 400 ...... you make Chief fan look good

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:45 PM
once again, it comes down to yards. there was no scoring threat outside of Pittman and Hillis who were available a total of like 7 games.

those stats are inflated, they come from runs in between the 20's and that is it. there was no red zone rushing threat which is what was needed to help Jay.

we were the 2nd ranked offense last season in yards, but 16th in points, so we weren't that great on offense, and that falls on having a very mediocre running game.

SD had a down year rushing last season, but LT and Sproles still got into the end zone and were still of use in the red zone, our RBs weren't doing either of those things

Look up which team between San Diego and Denver scored more rushing touchdowns last year.

I'll give you a hint: it's not San Diego. And San Diego seriously padded their stats in week 17. http://www.leisurelasvegas.net/forum/images/smilies/other/emot-laugh.gif

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:48 PM
No you ****ing Idiot ......... Power running is controlling the POA ........ you got to have that FB and TE that can control ..........

Oh ya, it has nothing to do with the five fattest guys on the field. Right. Their job isn't to control the POA, that's the tight end's job! Thanks for the lesson you ****ing idiot.

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:49 PM
If Power running was 5 big guys , then we would have had it made in the red zone , I would say our Oline is better right now then the 98-99 Line , but our FB and TE are no where near to being close as to what we had back then ......
I got to watch 5 of the most purest power runners ever play , they didnt even need a line .........
1. Earl Campbell .........
2. Walter Payton.......
3.John Riggins
4. Bo Jackson
5.Marcus Allen ....Except Allen was the best short yardage guy . he could fit into a crack .....
But these guys were different then a Barry Sanders .....

OABB
03-29-2009, 11:50 PM
Oh ya, it has nothing to do with the five fattest guys on the field. Right. Their job isn't to control the POA, that's the tight end's job! Thanks for the lesson you ****ing idiot.

So...what is your point? are you just trying to say that Cutler is not very good?

seriously, i don't know what the argument is about.

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:51 PM
Oh ya, it has nothing to do with the five fattest guys on the field. Right. Their job isn't to control the POA, that's the tight end's job! Thanks for the lesson you ****ing idiot.

you just dont get it , even when I give you the answers ....... and yes the TE and FB carry a huge responsibility .....

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 11:52 PM
Look up which team between San Diego and Denver scored more rushing touchdowns last year.

I'll give you a hint: it's not San Diego. And San Diego seriously padded their stats in week 17. http://www.leisurelasvegas.net/forum/images/smilies/other/emot-laugh.gif

you're missing my point. in the case of the Chargers. LT and Sproles command attention from the defense, making it impossible for opposing defenses to disregard the run and just play the pass, which opens up passing lanes for Rivers.

Denver didn't have a RB capable of that outside of Hillis for a few games, and because of that, teams disregarded our running game, which resulted in inflated YPC, and once in the red zone with no one to run the ball in for 6, Jay was forced to pass, and it is hard to throw TDs in the red zone to begin with, and a lot harder when the defense drops everyone into coverage because your running game is weak and commands no attention

also Weigman and Hamilton are not big lineman, so your point about us having big a OL is wrong.

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:53 PM
So...what is your point? are you just trying to say that Cutler is not very good?

seriously, i don't know what the argument is about.

LOL he doesnt even know the difference in a running attack and a power running attack , how in the hell do you expect him to know what he is arguing about

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:53 PM
The RB has something to do with that, no?

Of course, but despite what the trucker will tell you the crux of power running is moving the line of scrimmage in the opposite direction. Denver's offensive line was excellent at that as evidenced by their impressive rushing numbers seven backs down.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 11:54 PM
If Power running was 5 big guys , then we would have had it made in the red zone , I would say our Oline is better right now then the 98-99 Line , but our FB and TE are no where near to being close as to what we had back then ......
I got to watch 5 of the most purest power runners ever play , they didnt even need a line .........
1. Earl Campbell .........
2. Walter Payton.......
3.John Riggins
4. Bo Jackson
5.Marcus Allen ....Except Allen was the best short yardage guy . he could fit into a crack .....
But these guys were different then a Barry Sanders .....

i know this is off topic, but i truly think if given the shot, Hillis could be a John Riggins for us, and would bring a whole new level of awesomeness to our offense.

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:54 PM
you just dont get it , even when I give you the answers ....... and yes the TE and FB carry a huge responsibility .....

Either way, don't you guys have a $30 million blocking tight end?

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:57 PM
you're missing my point. in the case of the Chargers. LT and Sproles command attention from the defense, making it impossible for opposing defenses to disregard the run and just play the pass, which opens up passing lanes for Rivers.



Which team scored more rushing TD's again?

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:57 PM
i know this is off topic, but i truly think if given the shot, Hillis could be a John Riggins for us, and would bring a whole new level of awesomeness to our offense.

I agree , Hillis is just as fluid , and just as powerful , though I do think Hillis has the softer hands coming out of the backfield ........

OABB
03-29-2009, 11:58 PM
Which team scored more rushing TD's again?

what's your point? seriously?

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:58 PM
i know this is off topic, but i truly think if given the shot, Hillis could be a John Riggins for us, and would bring a whole new level of awesomeness to our offense.

Too bad he's on the trading block. !Booya!

I'm a big fan of Hillis, too.

Spider
03-29-2009, 11:58 PM
Either way, don't you guys have a $30 million blocking tight end?

Not worth a **** .. I love how you left the FB off also .......

400HZ
03-29-2009, 11:59 PM
what's your point? seriously?

That many of the excuses that are made for Jay Cutler are pure poppycock.

400HZ
03-30-2009, 12:04 AM
Not worth a **** .. I love how you left the FB off also .......

Graham is a pretty good blocker. Everyone knows that.

Denver had several fullbacks as I recall. The Chargers had some skinny 210 lbs white kid. I guess if Denver gets a new fullback this year then Jay will really start tearing things up. McDaniels really values the position. ;D

OABB
03-30-2009, 12:04 AM
That many of the excuses that are made for Jay Cutler are pure poppycock.

I would agree with that.

Would you agree that some of the knocks on him are poppycock?

400HZ
03-30-2009, 12:07 AM
I would agree with that.

Would you agree that some of the knocks on him are poppycock?

I don't think his haircut is as bad as everyone says.

OABB
03-30-2009, 12:10 AM
I don't think his haircut is as bad as everyone says.

lol!




dbag!

Spider
03-30-2009, 12:11 AM
That many of the excuses that are made for Jay Cutler are pure poppycock.

See this is what you dont get , every team has 2 offensive attacks ,between the 20's and short yardage aka redzone , different personnel ... short yardage doesnt work on 3 yards or more downs ..... you got to have the Running wall FB and a TE that can both dominate the hashmarks in blocking and receiving... Take a look at your own Chargers , tell me what Gates means to them . or the Chiefs and Gonzo , as much as I hate the Guy but Bill Belichick is a genius in this area ..... he didnt have the personnel in Cleveland , but he does in New England .I remember when he used Line Backers in goal line /Short yardage situations and it worked .........

Spider
03-30-2009, 12:16 AM
Graham is a pretty good blocker. Everyone knows that.

Denver had several fullbacks as I recall. The Chargers had some skinny 210 lbs white kid. I guess if Denver gets a new fullback this year then Jay will really start tearing things up. McDaniels really values the position. ;D

No Graham isnt ... but the Chargers ended up 8-8 same as us .despite having LT , and Sproiles

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 12:18 AM
See this is what you dont get , every team has 2 offensive attacks ,between the 20's and short yardage aka redzone , different personnel ... short yardage doesnt work on 3 yards or more downs ..... you got to have the Running wall FB and a TE that can both dominate the hashmarks in blocking and receiving... Take a look at your own Chargers , tell me what Gates means to them . or the Chiefs and Gonzo , as much as I hate the Guy but Bill Belichick is a genius in this area ..... he didnt have the personnel in Cleveland , but he does in New England .I remember when he used Line Backers in goal line /Short yardage situations and it worked .........

the Charger fan can look at our super bowl teams. between the 20's we ran a lot of single back formations and used Sharpe a lot more, but once we got into the red zone, we brought in Griffith and i think it was Carswell(not completely positive it was Carswell) to give us some power to keep the ball moving in the red zone.

we brought in different personnel groupings once we got to the red zone.

Spider
03-30-2009, 12:21 AM
the Charger fan can look at our super bowl teams. between the 20's we ran a lot of single back formations and used Sharpe a lot more, but once we got into the red zone, we brought in Griffith and i think it was Carswell(not completely positive it was Carswell) to give us some power to keep the ball moving in the red zone.

we brought in different personnel groupings once we got to the red zone.

Yep + we used Zone blocking in the open field , went more traditional in short yardage , even used 2 T.E . sets ....
this is another secret of the Colts and Manning , they use a version of the K gun but 2 TE formations alot , But if I had a Dallas clark I would do the same

400HZ
03-30-2009, 12:22 AM
See this is what you dont get , every team has 2 offensive attacks ,between the 20's and short yardage aka redzone , different personnel ... short yardage doesnt work on 3 yards or more downs ..... you got to have the Running wall FB and a TE that can both dominate the hashmarks in blocking and receiving... Take a look at your own Chargers , tell me what Gates means to them . or the Chiefs and Gonzo , as much as I hate the Guy but Bill Belichick is a genius in this area ..... he didnt have the personnel in Cleveland , but he does in New England .I remember when he used Line Backers in goal line /Short yardage situations and it worked .........

Belichik is a genius in the red zone. You should watch more of his games, though. He doesn't even carry a fullback on the roster. He sends in a halfassed TE/HB combo guy when he needs a guy to fill the spot. It works most of the time though because Logan Mankins and Matt Light are studs. Sammy Morris is a good short yardage back though. I'll give you that.

Spider
03-30-2009, 12:28 AM
Belichik is a genius in the red zone. You should watch more of his games, though. He doesn't even carry a fullback on the roster. He sends in a halfassed TE/HB combo guy when he needs a guy to fill the spot. It works most of the time though because Logan Mankins and Matt Light are studs. Sammy Morris is a good short yardage back though. I'll give you that.

He doesnt need to if he has got a TE that can be a FB ........Like the Vikes and Klinesaucer

Spider
03-30-2009, 12:32 AM
But at least now I got you to understand that there is a difference in a rushing attack , and a Power run game ......... so back to my original question what does Denvers being 12 in rushing yards have to do with power running ?

400HZ
03-30-2009, 12:32 AM
He doesnt need to if he has got a TE that can be a FB ........Like the Vikes and Klinesaucer

It's not a position that he makes a priority. Fullbacks don't even get drafted in the first five rounds unless your the San Diego Chargers and your GM is a white supremecist.

Spider
03-30-2009, 12:38 AM
It's not a position that he makes a priority. Fullbacks don't even get drafted in the first five rounds unless your the San Diego Chargers and your GM is a white supremecist.

well being a FB isnt a glory position , all you have to do is be mean , hit hard .......but when you are good at it you will get noticed .but even still Billichick sets up the FB position in the red zone , going right back to Denver not having one .......

Xenos
03-30-2009, 12:40 AM
So, I'm not sure what we are actually discussing. Do you disagree that Drew Brees is better than Cutler?
I'm saying that he was let go because he had a potential career ending injury. And we had someone else waiting in the wing. Cutler doesn't have those two factors (unless his diabetes is a lot worse than he lets on), and so it's not an example letting go of a franchise QB at an early age.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 12:43 AM
well being a FB isnt a glory position , all you have to do is be mean , hit hard .......but when you are good at it you will get noticed .but even still Billichick sets up the FB position in the red zone , going right back to Denver not having one .......

didn't he also used to use Bruschi in the FB role inside the red zone?

he doesn't technically have a pure FB on the roster, but he still uses the position, with guys who can hit and bring some power when necessary

lazarus4444
03-30-2009, 01:12 AM
so we get picks too, i didn't see that.....wow you don't see much beyond McDaniels dick and ball bag do you?

so what if we got picks. we need help on the DL and DL takes a few years to become any good at. so we downgrade at QB and the offense gets worse, all the while we are waiting on the draft picks to pan out in a few seasons. so instead of having a rebuilding defense and a potent offense with a QB who is capable of winning on his own, we get a weak ass Cassel led offense and a rebuilding defense.

Why don't you get off of cutlers dick and balls?

I don't think anybody gives a flying **** if you don't like mcdaniels or not. Can't we all just agree to disagree and hope the Broncos win no matter what? :thanku:

Please stop wasting your life trying to convince people that mcdaniels is a **** head coach because nobody knows if he will be or not. And he is destroying a VERY (If you can even call it that) average team that shanny had put together and building it up to be meaner, smarter and tougher, whats wrong with that?

If i were you i'd go try to meditate or something because i'm really worried about you and all the negativity. You keep spewing so much hate constantly all the time about this stupid soap opera that quite frankly its getting quite irritating. I'd advise you to direct your passion for cutler into positive energy, its healthier for you.

potent cutler offense: 370 pts
weak ass cassel led offense: 410 pts

what i see is a team that is in much more disarray then any one player can fix, and if it takes getting rid of a single player to fix the entire team, then that may be whats best for the team. i assume you are one of those "i will follow whatever team cutler is on" people?

I'm sorry but he owned you there, lol. I mean, a 40 point diff. and we were supposed to have an elite offense? I'm glad bates is gone too because he wasn't all THAT good. He might have been but he's not better than mcdaniels who WILL be calling the plays.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 01:18 AM
If i were you i'd go try to meditate or something because i'm really worried about you and all the negativity. You keep spewing so much hate constantly all the time about this stupid soap opera that quite frankly its getting quite irritating. I'd advise you to direct your passion for cutler into positive energy, its healthier for you.



if it's is so irritating, why don't you just block me, because i don't give a **** what you think of my posts, and until McDaniels proves otherwise, the hate is justified.

on a side note, why don't you post an actual opinion of your own instead of trying to knock on other people while not actually contributing anything of your own.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 01:26 AM
I'm sorry but he owned you there, lol. I mean, a 40 point diff. and we were supposed to have an elite offense? I'm glad bates is gone too because he wasn't all THAT good. He might have been but he's not better than mcdaniels who WILL be calling the plays.


i have never said an we had an elite offense. i have said the pieces are there and with the addition of a good RB we would be elite on offense. also, the Patriots are a team that set league scoring records the season before with 589 points scored. meaning Cassel was 179 points off from where the team was the year before with basically the same talent around him.

Denver doesn't have a Randy Moss to score 23 TDs a year or the other pieces necessary to score at will like the Pats did, which made even a backup led offense still look good.

so if you actually use your brain, you will see that Jay's 370 points scored offense, would look like world beaters compared to what a Cassel led offense, with less talent than the Pats have will look like

boltaneer
03-30-2009, 01:33 AM
once again, it comes down to yards. there was no scoring threat outside of Pittman and Hillis who were available a total of like 7 games.

those stats are inflated, they come from runs in between the 20's and that is it. there was no red zone rushing threat which is what was needed to help Jay.

we were the 2nd ranked offense last season in yards, but 16th in points, so we weren't that great on offense, and that falls on having a very mediocre running game.

SD had a down year rushing last season, but LT and Sproles still got into the end zone and were still of use in the red zone, our RBs weren't doing either of those things

The Chargers were horrible rushing the ball in the red zone last year. LT's avg was 2.4 and Sproles was below 2.0. Why do you think Rivers threw for so many TDs?

Both San Diego and Denver had the same amount of rushing TDs by their running backs.

The Cutler defenders can make all the excuses in the world for him but Cutler simply didn't come through last year when it counted (in the red zone and at the end of the season).

boltaneer
03-30-2009, 01:39 AM
if i were you guys id be on this board in full force. cutler is being a p***Y and half the fans on this board are being bigger ones. if its funny to me, its gotta be awesome for you guys.

I think it's great that the Chargers posters here are not acting immature about it.

But I am loving every minute of Cutler's soap opera. I'm just glad the public is finally seeing how immature he really is.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 02:28 AM
The Chargers were horrible rushing the ball in the red zone last year. LT's avg was 2.4 and Sproles was below 2.0. Why do you think Rivers threw for so many TDs?

Both San Diego and Denver had the same amount of rushing TDs by their running backs.

The Cutler defenders can make all the excuses in the world for him but Cutler simply didn't come through last year when it counted (in the red zone and at the end of the season).

the production might not have been great, but LT still warrants a defense having to stay in check, and keep guys in the box, whereas Denver does not have that.

Rivers has better passing options than Jay because guys are staying down watching out for LT. and props to Rivers, he makes the most of those opportunities

but Jay doesn't have an LT and defenses just play pass and clog passing lanes for him making it more difficult to complete TD passes

bayarealightning
03-30-2009, 02:30 AM
No , between the 20's is a different game , and to suggest Cutler loses it in the red zone is idiotic , what killed Cutler and helped Gerrard is power running in the redzone .......turnovers , all of that is due from the lack of a power run game ... Defenses can defend the pass alot easier against the Broncos then the Jags ,Defenders had to keep an eye on Jones Drew , when Denver started Hillis Cutler was a much different QB , then when hillis went down , so did Cutlers performance .....I dont mind opposing fans coming and talking ..... I just wish they knew what in the **** they was talking about .......
In 2007, the Broncos offense had trouble scoring TDs in the red zone. In 2008, there were turnovers in the red zone that killed drives. Turnovers are also a part of decision making. Everyone knows that he believes that he can fit the ball in where ever he wants because of his strong arm. That has led to untimely turnovers. The point of Garrard was a throw in line based on the original poster's ascertion of when Jay is at his best. Nothing more. You do not exclude games when assessing a player. Their play is their play, and if they are inconsistant... oh well.

bayarealightning
03-30-2009, 02:43 AM
the production might not have been great, but LT still warrants a defense having to stay in check, and keep guys in the box, whereas Denver does not have that.

Rivers has better passing options than Jay because guys are staying down watching out for LT. and props to Rivers, he makes the most of those opportunities

but Jay doesn't have an LT and defenses just play pass and clog passing lanes for him making it more difficult to complete TD passes
But... that doesn't stop Peyton Manning. Jay is the second best QB behind Manning (when he is on), so I would guess that he is the closest thing to Manning (when he is on). Everyone knows that Manning is passing and he still makes plays in the red zone. Jay (when he is on) should be able to do the same thing. (When he is on.)

Hulamau
03-30-2009, 03:04 AM
.....that is why i hate him. he was so ignorant, that he didn't see he can have a hand in creating the best and most talented QB in the game, but instead he wanted the safety blanket of a marginally talented QB he has known for years.

Thats quite a statement BM4E! So you really think McD doesnt realize what kind of physical potential Cutler has??? And that is why you 'hate' him?!?

Really dont know what to say to that one ....?

Spider
03-30-2009, 03:04 AM
In 2007, the Broncos offense had trouble scoring TDs in the red zone. In 2008, there were turnovers in the red zone that killed drives. Turnovers are also a part of decision making. Everyone knows that he believes that he can fit the ball in where ever he wants because of his strong arm. That has led to untimely turnovers. The point of Garrard was a throw in line based on the original poster's ascertion of when Jay is at his best. Nothing more. You do not exclude games when assessing a player. Their play is their play, and if they are inconsistant... oh well.
shoot low sheriff this boy is on a shetland ....... i never once said Cutler is perfect , or makes the right decisions every time , all I am stating is and try to follow here , Cutler had more of a harder time in the red zone , due to the lack of Power running ,Now that doesnt mean Cutler is great , or never screws up all it means is Defenses were able to defend Cutler and the Broncos in the red zone easier then they could the Jags , or the Chargers ,etc ........... When Denvers red zone went up it was because of Pittman and Hillis . why ? cause they was a threat , that had to be defended ....... If you think teams ignored the Chargers running game in the red zone , you are completely bat sh!t

bayarealightning
03-30-2009, 03:25 AM
shoot low sheriff this boy is on a shetland ....... i never once said Cutler is perfect , or makes the right decisions every time , all I am stating is and try to follow here , Cutler had more of a harder time in the red zone , due to the lack of Power running ,Now that doesnt mean Cutler is great , or never screws up all it means is Defenses were able to defend Cutler and the Broncos in the red zone easier then they could the Jags , or the Chargers ,etc ........... When Denvers red zone went up it was because of Pittman and Hillis . why ? cause they was a threat , that had to be defended ....... If you think teams ignored the Chargers running game in the red zone , you are completely bat ****
You used a quote of mine referring to the original post and now you are talking about something that is far off from the first post. You know. The one about Cutler is the second best QB in the league behind Manning (when he is on). What are you talking about? I pointed out the fact of mistakes and bad decisions in the red zone which takes Cutler's name out of the second best QB in the league regardless if he is on or not. A power running game is fine and dandy, but the kid makes too many mistakes in the red zone when he is throwing the ball. Period.

Spider
03-30-2009, 04:34 AM
You used a quote of mine referring to the original post and now you are talking about something that is far off from the first post. You know. The one about Cutler is the second best QB in the league behind Manning (when he is on). What are you talking about? I pointed out the fact of mistakes and bad decisions in the red zone which takes Cutler's name out of the second best QB in the league regardless if he is on or not. A power running game is fine and dandy, but the kid makes too many mistakes in the red zone when he is throwing the ball. Period.
I dont think Cutler is #2 , not yet any way , I would place him like this ....
1. Pay me a ton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Romo
5.Brees
6.Big Ben
7. Cutler
8. Rivers
9.Gerrard
10. McNabb..
this isnt saying much , but to place on the blame for the redzone woes on Cutler is idiotic at best , there are times he is forced to force the ball in. we didnt have the luxury of kicking FG with our defense ........the heat was on to score TD every time .... Lack of power runnin game .... it was tough ..

Spider
03-30-2009, 04:36 AM
but the kid makes too many mistakes in the red zone when he is throwing the ball. Period.

see this is the part that makes me think your mom used drugs while carrying you .......... How do you know he made to many mistakes with the limited options he had to work with ?
Pay attention

2KBack
03-30-2009, 07:10 AM
I'm saying that he was let go because he had a potential career ending injury. And we had someone else waiting in the wing. Cutler doesn't have those two factors (unless his diabetes is a lot worse than he lets on), and so it's not an example letting go of a franchise QB at an early age.

It may not be the exact same situation, but is certainly an example of letting a supposed franchise guy go. either way though, my point wasn't the Brees /Rivers fiasco. Though I think Brees is a good example of a guy stepping up to a challenge...twice. My point was that Brees is also better than Cutler, and second in the league is laughable.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 07:32 AM
it took him less than a month to be proven a liar. and in my book once a liar, always a liar.

he comes from the Belicheat school of coaching where nothing is honest or as it seems. so even before this situation i was still taking all his words with a grain of salt.

doesn't it seem a little stupid that so many including you are blindly following a coach who has yet to do anything of note in his current job, over a guy who has carried the team the last 37 games and is coming off a pro bowl years?

You're wrong, dude. He hasn't been "proven" a liar. You love the taste of Jay's sack, so you think he's a liar. But every breakdown of the events that transpired has shown that McDaniels has told the truth. That's coming from Denver, New England, Detroit AND Tampa.

Must be hard to ignore all those facts when developing your "educated opinion." /rolleyes

DenverBrit
03-30-2009, 08:46 AM
the point is his stupidity in even considering a deal that bad is a major red flag on him and points to him being completely incompetent and not ready to be a HC in the NFL

You made such a big deal about McDaniels contemplating trading Cutler for Cassel and a 3rd, yet won't provide a source.

I haven't seen anything like that quoted, so please, provide a source.

You do have one, right?

BroncoFiend
03-30-2009, 08:46 AM
My six year old son wants to send a letter to Cutler to let him know that he is his favorite player and he doesn't want him to leave.

Any idea if there is an address out there he can send to?

DenverBrit
03-30-2009, 08:50 AM
My six year old son wants to send a letter to Cutler to let him know that he is his favorite player and he doesn't want him to leave.

Any idea if there is an address out there he can send to?



Try these.


http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=1219

boltaneer
03-30-2009, 10:59 AM
the production might not have been great, but LT still warrants a defense having to stay in check, and keep guys in the box, whereas Denver does not have that.

Rivers has better passing options than Jay because guys are staying down watching out for LT. and props to Rivers, he makes the most of those opportunities

but Jay doesn't have an LT and defenses just play pass and clog passing lanes for him making it more difficult to complete TD passes

Ah, more excuses for Cutler!

Brady does it and everyone knew he was gonna throw. Ditto for Peyton. Ditto for Warner. Ditto for Brees. Ditto for McNabb. And ditto for Rivers last year.

The Chargers couldn't run block whether it was outside or inside the twenties. Whether it was Norv's new blocking scheme or injuries, they were pacified last year and LT was hurt. Teams weren't dropping eight in the box like they often do against LT.

Cutler just didn't get it done. He does make bad decisions over and over. Use the running backs as an excuse. Use the defense as an excuse. Whatever you use, the bottom line is that he wasn't successful enough in the red zone.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 12:28 PM
But... that doesn't stop Peyton Manning. Jay is the second best QB behind Manning (when he is on), so I would guess that he is the closest thing to Manning (when he is on). Everyone knows that Manning is passing and he still makes plays in the red zone. Jay (when he is on) should be able to do the same thing. (When he is on.)

Joseph Addai, Rhodes, Edge, Wayne, Harrison, Gonzales, Clark, Stokley.

all guys he has had the majority of his career.

when Peyton gets to the red zone, teams have to watch for Addai running the ball and catching passes out of the backfield, Clark getting passes from out of the backfield or as a TE, Wayne on the outside, Harrison on the outside, Gonzales in the slot.

once Indy gets to the red zone Peyton has so many options that opposing defenses can't cover all of them


Jay has Marshall, Scheff half the season when he is available, Royal, and no one else. and when defenses Jay goes against don't even look at the running game as a threat they double cover all of our receiving weapons.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 12:32 PM
Thats quite a statement BM4E! So you really think McD doesnt realize what kind of physical potential Cutler has??? And that is why you 'hate' him?!?

Really dont know what to say to that one ....?

if he did realize the potential, would he have even contemplated for a second trading him away for a less talented QB, regardless of the less talented QB already knowing the system?

think on that

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 12:36 PM
I dont think Cutler is #2 , not yet any way , I would place him like this ....
1. Pay me a ton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Romo
5.Brees
6.Big Ben
7. Cutler
8. Rivers
9.Gerrard
10. McNabb..
this isnt saying much , but to place on the blame for the redzone woes on Cutler is idiotic at best , there are times he is forced to force the ball in. we didnt have the luxury of kicking FG with our defense ........the heat was on to score TD every time .... Lack of power runnin game .... it was tough ..

Carson Palmer hasn't been really tearing it up since he got his knee injury
Romo is basically a young Jake Plummer with his mistakes
Brees i say is basically an equal
Ben is not all that great, just has a great defense
Rivers i actually rank ahead of Jay, simply because he owns us

with that in mind i would have Jay ranked 4th after Peyton, Brady, and Rivers

Tombstone RJ
03-30-2009, 12:38 PM
The Chargers were horrible rushing the ball in the red zone last year. LT's avg was 2.4 and Sproles was below 2.0. Why do you think Rivers threw for so many TDs?

Both San Diego and Denver had the same amount of rushing TDs by their running backs.

The Cutler defenders can make all the excuses in the world for him but Cutler simply didn't come through last year when it counted (in the red zone and at the end of the season).

I think you missed something. Just becuase SD had the same amount of rushing TDs that the Broncos had does not change the fact that lining up LT and Sproles in the red zone forced defenses to game plan around those two, opening up passing lanes.

Cutler had no real threat at RB during the latter part of last season. Once Hillis went down, the running game was basically for show.

Yes, Rivers is the better QB and yes, Rivers has plenty of ammo in the red zone including LT and Sproles.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 12:39 PM
You're wrong, dude. He hasn't been "proven" a liar. You love the taste of Jay's sack, so you think he's a liar. But every breakdown of the events that transpired has shown that McDaniels has told the truth. That's coming from Denver, New England, Detroit AND Tampa.

Must be hard to ignore all those facts when developing your "educated opinion." /rolleyes

let's see about that.

as i remember he said when he got here he came for Jay, and then thought about trading him

told Jay he was the man, and then thought about trading him

McDaniels denied having any part in aquiring Cassel and then weeks later admitted he got to the party late.

told all the old vets he brought in that he was building to win now, and as anyone can tell by looking at this team, we are nowhere near being ready to win

so yeah, he is a ****ing liar.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 12:44 PM
Ah, more excuses for Cutler!

Brady does it and everyone knew he was gonna throw. Ditto for Peyton. Ditto for Warner. Ditto for Brees. Ditto for McNabb. And ditto for Rivers last year.

The Chargers couldn't run block whether it was outside or inside the twenties. Whether it was Norv's new blocking scheme or injuries, they were pacified last year and LT was hurt. Teams weren't dropping eight in the box like they often do against LT.

Cutler just didn't get it done. He does make bad decisions over and over. Use the running backs as an excuse. Use the defense as an excuse. Whatever you use, the bottom line is that he wasn't successful enough in the red zone.

are you that stupid you are still not getting through your head the importance of having a rushing threat? Spider and I have been telling you, even if these guys are going to throw, there is still the threat from the running game.

lets see, Colts have Addai, Cards, Hightower and Edge, Eagles had Westbrook, and Rivers has LT

those guys usually won't get the ball, but they are feared enough that the defense keeps guys down to watch them on the chance they actually get the ball, which leaves less guys available to cover receivers and TEs and opens up passing lanes for those QBs

Jay doesn't have that luxury, everyone knows he is going to throw the ball, because our RBs outside of Hillis and Pittman posed absolutely no rushing threat, so instead of facing defenses that keep 7 or 8 in the box to prevent the run, he is facing defenses that drop everyone into coverage and clog his passing lanes.

Tombstone RJ
03-30-2009, 12:45 PM
Ah, more excuses for Cutler!

Brady does it and everyone knew he was gonna throw. Ditto for Peyton. Ditto for Warner. Ditto for Brees. Ditto for McNabb. And ditto for Rivers last year.

The Chargers couldn't run block whether it was outside or inside the twenties. Whether it was Norv's new blocking scheme or injuries, they were pacified last year and LT was hurt. Teams weren't dropping eight in the box like they often do against LT.

Cutler just didn't get it done. He does make bad decisions over and over. Use the running backs as an excuse. Use the defense as an excuse. Whatever you use, the bottom line is that he wasn't successful enough in the red zone.

I believe the Broncos scoring offense is ranked 16th, so it's not like Cutler stunk in the red zone. He could always be better, no doubt.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 12:48 PM
let's see about that.

as i remember he said when he got here he came for Jay, and then thought about trading him

told Jay he was the man, and then thought about trading him

McDaniels denied having any part in aquiring Cassel and then weeks later admitted he got to the party late.

told all the old vets he brought in that he was building to win now, and as anyone can tell by looking at this team, we are nowhere near being ready to win

so yeah, he is a ****ing liar.

Again, you're putting so much weight on that throwaway "we got to the dance late" line. Someone contacted him about trading Cutler. He listened. Went back to the table, saying they needed more if they were giving up Cutler. Cassel was traded to KC. The trade was over, and it never even got serious enough for him to run it by the head of the organization. But sure. If "He's a liarrrrrrrrrrrrrr!" is your blankie that you have to sleep with every night, that's your business. But you're wrong. Significantly wrong.

Really glad we have you to comment on whether the team has the ability to win now. Last I checked, we still have a damn good offense, and the defense should improve with better coaching. Of course, that would blow a hole in your "but he's a Liarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!" nonsense, so I guess that won't ever go over with you.

barryr
03-30-2009, 12:54 PM
Unless Cutler sits out camp, he isn't being traded. It's all up to Cutler now whether he wants to be a Bronco or not.

400HZ
03-30-2009, 01:34 PM
are you that stupid you are still not getting through your head the importance of having a rushing threat? Spider and I have been telling you, even if these guys are going to throw, there is still the threat from the running game.

lets see, Colts have Addai, Cards, Hightower and Edge, Eagles had Westbrook, and Rivers has LT

those guys usually won't get the ball, but they are feared enough that the defense keeps guys down to watch them on the chance they actually get the ball, which leaves less guys available to cover receivers and TEs and opens up passing lanes for those QBs

Jay doesn't have that luxury, everyone knows he is going to throw the ball, because our RBs outside of Hillis and Pittman posed absolutely no rushing threat, so instead of facing defenses that keep 7 or 8 in the box to prevent the run, he is facing defenses that drop everyone into coverage and clog his passing lanes.

Tatum Bell kept Denver in the game week 17. :rofl:

I would have much rather have had Denver's run game/offensive line last year. I watched all the games. Even if you want to pretend that Jay got no help from the run game, his pass protection was as good as any in the NFL. You'll probably try and tell me how worthless it was now, though. :giggle:

Pontius Pirate
03-30-2009, 01:37 PM
http://dietrichthrall.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/neverending-story.jpg

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 01:37 PM
The running game got yards. I don't think anyone will dispute that.

But when you're starting a guy that was selling cell phones just weeks before suiting up, a guy that can't break an arm tackle, the defense doesn't have to account for him at all times like teams do with LT and Sproles. It's a fact, man. Tatum Bell scare you? Me either. It sure as **** didn't scare any defenses, who were able to just sit back and wait for Cutler to throw, because they A) knew it was coming, and B) knew that the running backs couldn't hurt them.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 01:38 PM
Tatum Bell kept Denver in the game week 17. :rofl:

I would have much rather have had Denver's run game/offensive line last year. I watched all the games. Even if you want to pretend that Jay got no help from the run game, his pass protection was as good as any in the NFL. You'll probably try and tell me how worthless it was now, though. :giggle:

Tatum Bell's 2 TDs also came on runs of over 20 yards, and were not from the red zone, so once again, in the red zone our rushing attack was worthless.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 01:42 PM
I love how Chargers fans point to Denver's rushing yardage totals as some kind of "proof," but never acknowledge that it's so damn easy for Rivers to throw a 2 yard out to Sproles, watch him turn that into an 80 yard touchdown scamper, and then count it as "Rivers completed an 80 yard pass! Look how high his QB rating is!" Jesus, even blueflame's fat ass could throw a two yard out.

400HZ
03-30-2009, 01:48 PM
Tatum Bell's 2 TDs also came on runs of over 20 yards, and were not from the red zone, so once again, in the red zone our rushing attack was worthless.

So was Jay if I recall correctly.

http://www.pe.com/multimedia/slideshow/2008/20081229_chargers/images/02CHARGERS29Efdb.jpg

Oh dang, I forgot that throw was Tatum's fault.

I guess we'll see what happens next year now that McDaniels has added the ultra-durable Buckhalter and Jordan to the roster. :flower:

400HZ
03-30-2009, 01:50 PM
I love how Chargers fans point to Denver's rushing yardage totals as some kind of "proof," but never acknowledge that it's so damn easy for Rivers to throw a 2 yard out to Sproles, watch him turn that into an 80 yard touchdown scamper, and then count it as "Rivers completed an 80 yard pass! Look how high his QB rating is!" Jesus, even blueflame's fat ass could throw a two yard out.

Staring down Brandon Marshall all day is way better, huh?

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 01:51 PM
So was Jay if I recall correctly.

http://www.pe.com/multimedia/slideshow/2008/20081229_chargers/images/02CHARGERS29Efdb.jpg

Oh dang, I forgot that throw was Tatum's fault.

I guess we'll see what happens next year now that McDaniels has added the ultra-durable Buckhalter and Jordan to the roster. :flower:

you really are a ****ing moron and a troll, not even worth arguing with a guy who has a football IQ lower than his shoe size

400HZ
03-30-2009, 01:53 PM
you really are a ****ing moron and a troll, not even worth arguing with a guy who has a football IQ lower than his shoe size

Yes. I'm a ****ing moron because I don't agree that Jay Cutler is the second best quarterback in the NFL. There are lots of ****ing morons out there, I guess.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 01:57 PM
Staring down Brandon Marshall all day is way better, huh?

That's all you have? Really?

If you're out of arguments, you could just say that instead of bringing the weak sauce. But hey, cell phone Charger fans have never been much in the intellect department.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 01:59 PM
Yes. I'm a ****ing moron because I don't agree that Jay Cutler is the second best quarterback in the NFL. There are lots of ****ing morons out there, I guess.

No... you're a ****ing moron because you don't know how to read.

The thread clearly states that, when he's at his best, Cutler is as good as anyone not named Peyton. Seeing it would require the ability to read entire sentences, which you can't do, so I guess that's where your problem lies.

Good luck with that. I hear "Hooked on Phonics" really works.

400HZ
03-30-2009, 01:59 PM
That's all you have? Really?

If you're out of arguments, you could just say that instead of bringing the weak sauce. But hey, cell phone Charger fans have never been much in the intellect department.

Just matching one stupid generalization with another. :flower:

What's a cell phone Charger fan?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 02:02 PM
Just matching one stupid generalization with another. :flower:

What's a cell phone Charger fan?

That's you. You root for the cell phone chargers, right?

San Diego
http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/dailyloaf/files/2009/02/cell-phone-charger.jpg
Chargers

400HZ
03-30-2009, 02:08 PM
No... you're a ****ing moron because you don't know how to read.

The thread clearly states that, when he's at his best, Cutler is as good as anyone not named Peyton. Seeing it would require the ability to read entire sentences, which you can't do, so I guess that's where your problem lies.

Good luck with that. I hear "Hooked on Phonics" really works.

Lots of people make the mistake of overqualifying a statement in a debate. If you are really trying to make the comparison of Jay on his best day versus other quarterbacks who aren't on their best days then I'll just leave you to it. It's illogical.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 02:11 PM
Who said anything about anybody else's best day?

I know fiction is cool, but try not to make up bull**** in a fact-based debate.

bayarealightning
03-30-2009, 02:14 PM
see this is the part that makes me think your mom used drugs while carrying you .......... How do you know he made to many mistakes with the limited options he had to work with ?
Pay attention
I guess when you do not have any empirical evidence to add, you come back with garbage like this. Way to back your point. Gotta love the football knowledge!tsk tsk

400HZ
03-30-2009, 02:17 PM
Who said anything about anybody else's best day?

I know fiction is cool, but try not to make up bull**** in a fact-based debate.

So you saying that Jay Cutler (on his best day) is better than Tom Brady (on his best day) and Phillip Rivers (on his best day), etc and you are also calling me a moron?

SportinOne
03-30-2009, 02:21 PM
Maybe it's been mentioned, but the reason we run the ball well between the 20s and not in the red zone is because we (used to) run the zone blocking scheme, which requires LIGHTER OFFENSIVE LINEMEN.

They don't do well in the red zone, however.

Kaylore
03-30-2009, 02:30 PM
Maybe it's been mentioned, but the reason we run the ball well between the 20s and not in the red zone is because we (used to) run the zone blocking scheme, which requires LIGHTER OFFENSIVE LINEMEN.

They don't do well in the red zone, however.
Except that Kuper, Clady and Harris are all above 300 lbs.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 02:33 PM
So you saying that Jay Cutler (on his best day) is better than Tom Brady (on his best day) and Phillip Rivers (on his best day), etc and you are also calling me a moron?

i say yes he is. because when he is on the top of his game, he can make plays guys like Brady and Rivers can only dream of making. he can make throws that require a second viewing.

those guys are good, but when Cutler is at the top of his game he is better.

BroncoBuff
03-30-2009, 02:47 PM
But but but ... Popps said Rivers outplayed Cutler in that game, so how can this be?
.

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 02:49 PM
But but but ... Popps said Rivers outplayed Cutler in that game, so how can this be?
.

Popps is the Mel Kiper of this board. in his mind Griese was better than Jay

Spider
03-30-2009, 07:41 PM
Yes. I'm a ****ing moron because I don't agree that Jay Cutler is the second best quarterback in the NFL. There are lots of ****ing morons out there, I guess.

No you got labeled a moron cause you didnt understand the difference in Power running and between the 20's running .....

Spider
03-30-2009, 07:44 PM
So you saying that Jay Cutler (on his best day) is better than Tom Brady (on his best day) and Phillip Rivers (on his best day), etc and you are also calling me a moron?

Jay can make more throws , no one can dispute that .....but that is also Cutlers downfall ...... Look Cutler will be a glorified Bret Farve , Unless McD is as good as advertised

400HZ
03-30-2009, 08:27 PM
No you got labeled a moron cause you didnt understand the difference in Power running and between the 20's running .....

Oh, right.

When will teams learn to stop taking offensive linemen so early and paying them so much money when the fortunes of their team revolves around the fullback and tight end?

400HZ
03-30-2009, 08:28 PM
Jay can make more throws , no one can dispute that .....but that is also Cutlers downfall ...... Look Cutler will be a glorified Bret Farve , Unless McD is as good as advertised

I'd consider him an unglorified Brett Favre.

Spider
03-30-2009, 08:29 PM
Oh, right.

When will teams learn to stop taking offensive linemen so early and paying them so much money when the fortunes of their team revolves around the fullback and tight end?

And you wonder why you are called a moron ........But dont bitch when people insult you , you ask for it ........

SouthStndJunkie
03-30-2009, 08:30 PM
Jay can make more throws , no one can dispute that .....but that is also Cutlers downfall ...... Look Cutler will be a glorified Bret Farve , Unless McD is as good as advertised

I will take a glorified Brett Favre if it comes with a few Super Bowl appearances, a Super Bowl win, some MVP awards, most wins in NFL history, and holding most of the all-time career passing records.

Spider
03-30-2009, 08:30 PM
I'd consider him an unglorified Brett Favre.

and it is pretty unanimous around here you are a ****ing retard ...........So what you think or have to add is really no value to anyone but yourself

Spider
03-30-2009, 08:32 PM
I will take a glorified Brett Favre if it comes with a few Super Bowl appearances, a Super Bowl win, some MVP awards, most wins in NFL history, and holding most of the all-time career passing records.

;D well when you put it that way ....... But I think Cutler could do better , with the right coaching ........Shanny was that guy , we will see if mcD is also

400HZ
03-30-2009, 08:33 PM
and it is pretty unanimous around here you are a ****ing retard ...........So what you think or have to add is really no value to anyone but yourself

Take a good hard look in the mirror, buddy.

Man-Goblin
03-30-2009, 08:36 PM
and it is pretty unanimous around here you are a ****ing retard ...........So what you think or have to add is really no value to anyone but yourself

I dunno...I think he is one of the better rival posters around here, if that is saying something.

Personally, I would rather have (a happy) Cutler than Rivers. But you have to understand why an outsider would argue the other way (McJayGate aside).

Spider
03-30-2009, 08:44 PM
Take a good hard look in the mirror, buddy.

Thats it ? ......Look you are obviously in over your head in this convo , you really dont have the first clue ,instead of bowing out , or listening you got more and more ignorant , getting mad at me wont help your stupidity .......And there is no 12 step program for stupidity ..... you just cant fix stupid ...... I am afraid you are screwed .....But if you are on your best behavior during the season , and resit the urge to share your stupidity , I will see what I can do about geting you a fat head of Jay Cutler ........

Spider
03-30-2009, 08:47 PM
I dunno...I think he is one of the better rival posters around here, if that is saying something.

Personally, I would rather have (a happy) Cutler than Rivers. But you have to understand why an outsider would argue the other way (McJayGate aside).

anyone that doesnt grasp the difference in a red zone offense and a open field offense , should just admit is and move on ........ Look Doug Williams , Trent Dilfer , phill Simms ,Jim McManhon proved you dont have to be great ,Just steady with a good team , and power running they was no Elway , Kelly , Montana

Spider
03-30-2009, 08:52 PM
Fran Tarkenton was one hellva QB ....who was a better qb Bradshaw or Staubach?
the differences in QB's isnt a very huge gap in alot of cases like Rivers and Cutler .... but Defense and Power running will separate these 2 teams more then anythng else

400HZ
03-30-2009, 09:07 PM
Thats it ? ......Look you are obviously in over your head in this convo , you really dont have the first clue ,instead of bowing out , or listening you got more and more ignorant , getting mad at me wont help your stupidity .......And there is no 12 step program for stupidity ..... you just cant fix stupid ...... I am afraid you are screwed .....But if you are on your best behavior during the season , and resit the urge to share your stupidity , I will see what I can do about geting you a fat head of Jay Cutler ........

Haha, take it easy I'm not upset. I don't feel even remotely close to stupid, especially when I'm conversating with you. I'll bow out though. Worthwhile debate went out the window pretty fast here. Just like it normally does when you're involved.

Spider
03-30-2009, 09:26 PM
Haha, take it easy I'm not upset. I don't feel even remotely close to stupid, especially when I'm conversating with you. I'll bow out though. Worthwhile debate went out the window pretty fast here. Just like it normally does when you're involved.

Yeah i do have a skill for weeding out Bull****ters..........And the discussion went out the window when you posted Denver was 12 th in rushing ....

JJJ
03-30-2009, 11:21 PM
When Cutler hangs 39 points a game on the Bolts over the next three years (Rivers average over the last three on the Donks) and actually wins a game against him that is not aided by the refs we can start saying he is better than Rivers.

Until then he has to sit behind Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Warner, Big Ben, and perhaps one or two others in the QB power rankings.

I think though that Brees is the best comparison for Cutler. Like Brees Cutler is destined to break out big in the next one or two years Patience with young QBs is a virtue. On the negative side he also seems a bit like Brees in that he doesn't seem to man up during a critical big game. Both seem to be regular season QBs.

I do know one thing you are very lucky you have an excellent offensive line. I think if Cutler saw the pressure most QBs in the league see his mental fragility and gunslinger tendencies would result in copius amounts of picks from frustration. If Cutler got sacked as much as Jeff George did in his career he would be Jeff George times two.

OABB
03-30-2009, 11:38 PM
When Cutler hangs 39 points a game on the Bolts over the next three years (Rivers average over the last three on the Donks) and actually wins a game against him that is not aided by the refs we can start saying he is better than Rivers.

Until then he has to sit behind Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Warner, Big Ben, and perhaps one or two others in the QB power rankings.

I think though that Brees is the best comparison for Cutler. Like Brees Cutler is destined to break out big in the next one or two years Patience with young QBs is a virtue. On the negative side he also seems a bit like Brees in that he doesn't seem to man up during a critical big game. Both seem to be regular season QBs.

I do know one thing you are very lucky you have an excellent offensive line. I think if Cutler saw the pressure most QBs in the league see his mental fragility and gunslinger tendencies would result in copius amounts of picks from frustration. If Cutler got sacked as much as Jeff George did in his career he would be Jeff George times two.

23895

lex
03-30-2009, 11:44 PM
(by the way I'm talking about the second game of the season)

...I'm convinced that there is only one quarterback in the NFL that is better than Cutler. His name is Peyton. Now, some will point out that Cutler was very inconsistent this year and had some pretty bad games. That's true, and it's a valid point that to be among the best at what you do you should do it on a consistent basis. But even "Mr. QB Rating" Rivers had at least 4 bad games. That's 1/4 of the season. I would say Jay had about 6 bad games. That's not a good thing at all, but my argument is that, when Cutler is at his best he's better than everyone not named Peyton Manning. Cutler has a little more physical ability but Peyton more than makes up for it with his brain. He is getting old, though.

So, what's the point? The point is that, if McDaniels can work with Cutler to make him more consistent, we should have the best quarterback in the NFL in a few seasons. I'm just sitting here watching him throw dart after dart after dart. He could probably work on his touch passes but, really, if he is that accurate throwing fastballs then why worry about touch passes? The touchdown pass to Marshall was a perfect example of that. He took just a little bit off and laid it in there perfectly...and I'm not even sure if that was the best one of the half! Both of the touchdown passes to Scheffler were amazing as well. You just don't see any other quarterbacks, sans Peyton, making plays like this.. ever.

This has nothing to do with McDaniels vs. Cutler, at all. I'm convinced he's coming back and I'm excited for Broncos football to get going again. If Cutler can be an idiot off the field but a god on the field, I think McDaniels deserves the benefit of the doubt that he's capable of doing the same.

:coach:

If theres one pass, Id like to see Cutler improve, its the deep ball. And as far as touch is concerned, one of the most beautiful passes he made all season was that 40 something yard pass to Hillis (Hillis had over 100 rec yards that game), where Cutler dropped it into Hillis' arms like it had a parachute on it.

boltaneer
03-31-2009, 01:23 AM
So you saying that Jay Cutler (on his best day) is better than Tom Brady (on his best day) and Phillip Rivers (on his best day), etc and you are also calling me a moron?

I'm still amused by the whole premise of this thread - Player A is the (2nd) best in the NFL when he's on, especially because he emphasized one particular game (read: if you ignore all his flaws and mistakes that he usually makes).

Darren Sproles looked like the next coming of Barry Sanders that one game against Detroit a couple of years ago as well!

lex
03-31-2009, 01:37 AM
I'm still amused by the whole premise of this thread - Player A is the (2nd) best in the NFL when he's on, especially because he emphasized one particular game (read: if you ignore all his flaws and mistakes that he usually makes).

Darren Sproles looked like the next coming of Barry Sanders that one game against Detroit a couple of years ago as well!

???

Popps
03-31-2009, 01:37 AM
Popps is the Mel Kiper of this board. in his mind Griese was better than Jay

Look junior, you've got an uncomfortable man-crush on Jay Cutler. That's fine, but don't take your football ignorance out on the rest of the world.

Buff has proven that he's beyond comprehending plain English. You're well on your way to catching up with him.

If you to lover-boys can't discern someone taking issue with a person's actions, with their inherent physical talent and game-skill, I'm not sure how to help you. Get someone at home to teach you some basic reading skills. Work it out.

But, chasing me around calling me names because you can't read is just dull. It's not good message-board.

BroncoMan4ever
03-31-2009, 02:10 AM
Look junior, you've got an uncomfortable man-crush on Jay Cutler. That's fine, but don't take your football ignorance out on the rest of the world.

Buff has proven that he's beyond comprehending plain English. You're well on your way to catching up with him.

If you to lover-boys can't discern someone taking issue with a person's actions, with their inherent physical talent and game-skill, I'm not sure how to help you. Get someone at home to teach you some basic reading skills. Work it out.

But, chasing me around calling me names because you can't read is just dull. It's not good message-board.


Dude relax, the Mel Kiper comment comes from the fact that just like him, you seem to hate on Cutler with no actual reason. I have asked for reasons from you a few times in past threads and have yet to get a response, which leads me to believe you hate for no real reason, just like Mel Kiper. also the comment wasn't made in a form of disrespect, but as in giving another board member ****, like everyone on here does, and to finally get a reason why you seem to hate Jay so much. it was meant in a joking manner, and if you took it in the wrong way, i apologize.

i have no problem with people siding with McDaniels for the reason of they think he is doing a good job, or that he is looking out for the best interest of the team, type of crap. I don't see it myself, but i accept when another fan does. i just like to see a little reasoning behind the hate of Jay other than immaturity, which i find to be a lame reason, because at 25 how mature is he expected to be? Elway was pulling the same kind of **** after a decade in the league and that is not questioned now

you just seem so ready to agree with everything McDaniels says that you don't weigh the factor that maybe Jay is right. he was the one who was wronged, and he is the one who has actually done anything for this franchise.

i myself am not going to jump on the dick of a rookie HC in the first place, and add in that so far nothing he has done is spectacular and he has pissed off the best player on his roster, makes it near impossible for me to think he has any idea what he is doing or that he is going to even be a mediocre coach for us let alone a good one.

Side note, i don't have an uncomfortable man crush on Jay, i just back the player in all disputes. i pay to watch the players. i but memorabilia of the players. and in this situation a rookie HC has shown himself to be in over his head and drunk with too much power in my eyes.

McDaniels can end this crap tomorrow if he truly wanted. he says he wants a 1 on 1 with Jay. then he should take his ass to Tennessee and do it. Jay is the one who was wronged and should not have to be the one to mend fences. we have a team plane, use it, and end this.

Popps
03-31-2009, 10:06 AM
Dude relax, the Mel Kiper comment comes from the fact that just like him, you seem to hate on Cutler with no actual reason. .

Hey skippy... you said yourself that you're the one that needs to relax.

As for Cutler, again... I'm not "hating" on him. I'm making very pointed observations based on his behavior. They're the same observations that have led a slew of writers to write the EXACT same thing. The same observations that have made teams leery about trading him and the same observations that have earned him the reputation as a baby.

This guy is such a head case, the team is trying to get the media to shut up so he'll come out of his room and talk to us! It's a riot. Honestly, I've never seen anything like this.

As I said, you can continue on with your uncomfortable man-crush on this guy, but please drop the fairy-tale that he's a flawless individual and has no culpability in this situation. It's just goofy.

Spider
03-31-2009, 10:08 AM
Hey skippy... you said yourself that you're the one that needs to relax.

As for Cutler, again... I'm not "hating" on him. I'm making very pointed observations based on his behavior. They're the same observations that have led a slew of writers to write the EXACT same thing. The same observations that have made teams leery about trading him and the same observations that have earned him the reputation as a baby.

This guy is such a head case, the team is trying to get the media to shut up so he'll come out of his room and talk to us! It's a riot. Honestly, I've never seen anything like this.

As I said, you can continue on with your uncomfortable man-crush on this guy, but please drop the fairy-tale that he's a flawless individual and has no culpability in this situation. It's just goofy.

Shut up Mel ..................;D

Popps
03-31-2009, 10:09 AM
D
McDaniels can end this crap tomorrow if he truly wanted. .

Well, he could if Cutler would grace his employers with his presence. But, he's chosen to skip working out with his teammates. Great leader, huh?

D
then he should take his ass to Tennessee and do it. Jay is the one who was wronged

Honestly, dude. That's just embarrassing to read. I almost wonder if you're joking, at this point. It's so flawed it either has to be a joke, or you're just getting creepy about this.

Popps
03-31-2009, 10:10 AM
Shut up Mel ..................;D

http://www.geocities.com/classics4ever/alice/cap/images/vic_cap.jpg

Spider
03-31-2009, 10:15 AM
http://www.geocities.com/classics4ever/alice/cap/images/vic_cap.jpg

LOL I loved that Show .........