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View Full Version : If one of them has to go....


baja
03-28-2009, 07:28 PM
Will it be Cutler or Mcdaniels?

TheDave
03-28-2009, 07:28 PM
:deadhorse

tsiguy96
03-28-2009, 07:29 PM
this is so stupid. seriously. ill bet money that cutler is not traded, well never get near the value wed need.

Man-Goblin
03-28-2009, 07:29 PM
Does this question really need to be asked? The owner said as much; it's Cutler.

"If you're not a happy camper there's no reason to be here," or something like that.

oubronco
03-28-2009, 07:30 PM
:kiddingme

baja
03-28-2009, 07:34 PM
It's not beating a dead horse, it's the answer to the first poll. Bowlen keeps McDaniels therefore that makes McDaniels the most valuable

And if answered honestly the poll will be in the 90% for keeping McDaniels.

baja
03-28-2009, 07:35 PM
The point is McDaniels is not going anywhere go get used to it.

TheDave
03-28-2009, 07:36 PM
It's not beating a dead horse, it's the answer to the first poll. Bowlen keeps McDaniels therefore that makes McDaniels the most valuable

And if answered honestly the poll will be in the 90% for keeping McDaniels.

Actually, he's keeping both.

bombquixote
03-28-2009, 07:36 PM
Do you seriously have so little going on in your life that you have to try and keep the drama on the mane going even when there's no news? You're in Baja, right? So go surfing or something.

frerottenextelway
03-28-2009, 07:39 PM
If one gets fired they should just come in the next day like George Constanza, I'm sure Pat will have completely forgotten.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 07:42 PM
If one or the other had to go, Cutler should be the one retained. But he won't be.

Mr Chatterboodamn
03-28-2009, 07:43 PM
The point is McDaniels is not going anywhere go get used to it.

:sunshine: [John Stuart Mill] [Francis Bacon] [baja]

SoCalBronco
03-28-2009, 07:49 PM
It's not beating a dead horse, it's the answer to the first poll. Bowlen keeps McDaniels therefore that makes McDaniels the most valuable

And if answered honestly the poll will be in the 90% for keeping McDaniels.

Actually, so far, the answer to the first poll is that Jay is more valuable, according to 2/3 of this forum.

With regard to the question of who SHOULD be kept if only one can be, I would say that the answer SHOULD be Jay, but if it got to that point, it WOULD be Josh, only because Pat has put in all his chips in behind Josh and that there are powerful forces of ego and image that would force him to keep Josh. I question whether he has the intestinal fortitude and courage to do what was right if it would bring personal embarassment upon him because it would reflect poorly on his decision-making. I'm not sure he would be able to overcome those powerful forces.

You are correct to say that it does not appear that Josh is going anywhere anytime soon. Whether that is a good thing, or a wise thing is a completely seperate question. That he isn't going anywhere does not mean that we should now automatically kowtow to him, or start drinking his koolaid or anything of the sort. He is simply the current occupant in the post of power in this team. Nothing more and nothing less. Our loyalty flows only to what we (and by we I mean each individual) believe is the best interest of the team, not necessarily to him, or any other individual.

Northman
03-28-2009, 07:49 PM
The point is McDaniels is not going anywhere go get used to it.

And McDaniels has said he isnt trading Jay so i guess neither are going anywhere.

OrangeRising
03-28-2009, 07:50 PM
What Bowlen would do, versus what he should do are two different things entirely. If faced with a must-choose situation, which he is not, he would have to choose McDaniels for a variety of reasons.

He can't fire a head coach he just hired. Even the notion is silly. The idea someone acceptable could even be found at this late a date, come in and put together an entire staff THEN get up to speed for mini-camps and the draft, not to even mention the salary obligations atop the Shanahan staff.

Much easier to bid adieu to Cutler, hope the Broncos can replace him in the near future and brace for some rocky times directly ahead.

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 08:01 PM
Actually, so far, the answer to the first poll is that Jay is more valuable, according to 2/3 of this forum.


So 58 people have voted on the other one so far, and you think that is 2/3rds of this forum? Bahahaha.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 08:03 PM
What Bowlen would do, versus what he should do are two different things entirely. If faced with a must-choose situation, which he is not, he would have to choose McDaniels for a variety of reasons.

He can't fire a head coach he just hired. Even the notion is silly. The idea someone acceptable could even be found at this late a date, come in and put together an entire staff THEN get up to speed for mini-camps and the draft, not to even mention the salary obligations atop the Shanahan staff.

Much easier to bid adieu to Cutler, hope the Broncos can replace him in the near future and brace for some rocky times directly ahead.

The Raiders fired Kiffin in the middle of the season last year and then went on to win enough games to avoid the division cellar. But Pat isn't as senile as Al yet, so....

baja
03-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Actually, he's keeping both.

I agree

baja
03-28-2009, 08:08 PM
Do you seriously have so little going on in your life that you have to try and keep the drama on the mane going even when there's no news? You're in Baja, right? So go surfing or something.

I'm not big on night surfing.

BABronco
03-28-2009, 08:08 PM
damnit baja.. why do you have to switch the questions on a guy. I voted without looking you changed it to who would he keep while in the topic it says who goes. Cutler goes if anyone does.

baja
03-28-2009, 08:10 PM
Actually, so far, the answer to the first poll is that Jay is more valuable, according to 2/3 of this forum.

With regard to the question of who SHOULD be kept if only one can be, I would say that the answer SHOULD be Jay, but if it got to that point, it WOULD be Josh, only because Pat has put in all his chips in behind Josh and that there are powerful forces of ego and image that would force him to keep Josh. I question whether he has the intestinal fortitude and courage to do what was right if it would bring personal embarassment upon him because it would reflect poorly on his decision-making. I'm not sure he would be able to overcome those powerful forces.

You are correct to say that it does not appear that Josh is going anywhere anytime soon. Whether that is a good thing, or a wise thing is a completely seperate question. That he isn't going anywhere does not mean that we should now automatically kowtow to him, or start drinking his koolaid or anything of the sort. He is simply the current occupant in the post of power in this team. Nothing more and nothing less. Our loyalty flows only to what we (and by we I mean each individual) believe is the best interest of the team, not necessarily to him, or any other individual.

Do you think you have given him a fair chance?

SoCalBronco
03-28-2009, 08:14 PM
Do you think you have given him a fair chance?

I do. He has demonstrated that he's able to **** up a wet dream. That is difficult to do. One must either go out of their way or be incredibly incompetent to achieve this feat. He has done nothing to earn my respect or loyalty.

But I am open minded. If and when he achieves great things primarily on the backs of those he has personally drafted or brought in, rather than on the backs of those talents that were bequeathed to him, then I will not hesitate to give him all the credit in the world.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 08:16 PM
So 58 people have voted on the other one so far, and you think that is 2/3rds of this forum? Bahahaha.

The current vote is 65% to 34%... unless one has a reason for suspecting that more voters would equal a change in the percentages (probably not; most polls here on the Mane have been dividing at roughly those numbers) then more voters would simply equal more votes in each column.

Would it have made you happier if he said "of the OM posters who have taken the time to vote in the poll, your side is losing 2 to 1"?

baja
03-28-2009, 08:19 PM
I do. He has demonstrated that he's able to **** up a wet dream. That is difficult to do. One must either go out of their way or be incredibly incompetent to achieve this feat. He has done nothing to earn my respect or loyalty.

But I am open minded. If and when he achieves great things primarily on the backs of those he has personally drafted or brought in, rather than on the backs of those talents that were bequeathed to him, then I will not hesitate to give him all the credit in the world.

You're open minded!

You have condemned McDaniels before his first mini camp, dude that is not "Open minded"

Ratboy
03-28-2009, 08:20 PM
Bowlen has supported his coach, even though he has made some huge mistakes, I don't see how anyone could think Bowlen will keep Cutler over McDaniels.

Me? I take Cutler every day of the week.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 08:21 PM
Do you think you have given him a fair chance?

I gave him a fairer chance than he gave Mike Leach.

SoCalBronco
03-28-2009, 08:22 PM
You're open minded!

You have condemned McDaniels before his first mini camp, dude that is not "Open minded"

I've had good reason to do so (at least IMO).

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 08:23 PM
this is so stupid. seriously. ill bet money that cutler is not traded, well never get near the value wed need.

i agree. the return we would need to make the trade feasible would be insane, and no team would either be willing to give up that much, or they don't have enough to give to get Jay so it all becomes a moot point, and the team and Jay just need to settle it or get the **** over it and move on together

baja
03-28-2009, 08:26 PM
I gave him a fairer chance than he gave Mike Leach.

Usually your posts have more depth that this.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 08:33 PM
Usually your posts have more depth that this.

The point is that Mike Leach was a Bronco for 7 years (since 2002). He was summarily dismissed even though his performance was not subpar. The only reason to make a change there was that new guy used to be a Patriot. And that's not a good enough reason, IMHO.

baja
03-28-2009, 08:37 PM
I've had good reason to do so (at least IMO).

As many have pointed out So Ca., on this issue you are acting like an emotional teen who was jilted by her boyfriend at the prom in favor of her best friend.

Dude you never got over the firing of Shanahan and all your current hysteria is an off shoot of that.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 08:40 PM
As many have pointed out So Ca., on this issue you are acting like an emotional teen who was jilted by her boyfriend at the prom in favor of her best friend.

Dude you never got over the firing of Shanahan and all your current hysteria is an off shoot of that.

Not necessarily, Baja. One can hold both positions: a) being OK with Shanahan being gone and b) seriously not liking what the new coach is doing.

baja
03-28-2009, 08:42 PM
The point is that Mike Leach was a Bronco for 7 years (since 2002). He was summarily dismissed even though his performance was not subpar. The only reason to make a change there was that new guy used to be a Patriot. And that's not a good enough reason, IMHO.

Do you really think you have anywhere near all the facts as to why he made this move. You (and others) are condemning him without a trial, I will wait and judge the quality of coach he is no sooner than mid season and that is really too early to make a fair assessment.

baja
03-28-2009, 08:45 PM
Not necessarily, Baja. One can hold both positions: a) being OK with Shanahan being gone and b) seriously not liking what the new coach is doing.


Of course "One can" but I am making an assessment of So Cal based on a few hundred posts and that is take on his MO.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 08:47 PM
Do you really think you have anywhere near all the facts as to why he made this move. You (and others) are condemning him without a trial, I will wait and judge the quality of coach he is no sooner than mid season and that is really too early to make a fair assessment.

Does it matter? A veteran player who was performing well and came "cheap".. was cut in favor of a higher-priced (Patriot) player. It doesn't matter why. Mike Leach was given no chance to compete for the job (and who knows; he just might have been the better choice).

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Of course "One can" but I am making an assessment of So Cal based on a few hundred posts and that is take on his MO.

SoCal is a very smart guy... I think he has far more than just one reason. And he's far from being the only voice in Broncofanland that wishes they'd never heard of the name "McDaniels".

SoCalBronco
03-28-2009, 08:52 PM
As many have pointed out So Ca., on this issue you are acting like an emotional teen who was jilted by her boyfriend at the prom in favor of her best friend.

Dude you never got over the firing of Shanahan and all your current hysteria is an off shoot of that.

Well, I was never liked enough to go with someone to a prom so I don't know how it feels to be jilted at one. But in any event, it is true that I was and remain very upset and angered with Shanahan's firing. And undoubtedly, probably on some psychological level under the surface, I probably resent McDaniels sitting in Shanahan's chair, but even on the merits, there is a good case for the position I take (and others do), just on the facts. Just on the way McDaniels has handled himself and the tests and crises that have arisen before him are a damning indictment on his leadership style and his capacity to move the team forward. There are serious issues and concerns with regard to McDaniels and they go far beyond my feelings with regard to Shanahan.

tsiguy96
03-28-2009, 08:53 PM
SoCal is a very smart guy... I think he has far more than just one reason. And he's far from being the only voice in Broncofanland that wishes they'd never heard of the name "McDaniels".

have you read the **** socal has been posting? he took meltdown mode to a whole new level. you all need to learn to respect the coach, hes gonna be here for awhile.

baja
03-28-2009, 08:54 PM
Does it matter? A veteran player who was performing well and came "cheap".. was cut in favor of a higher-priced (Patriot) player. It doesn't matter why. Mike Leach was given no chance to compete for the job (and who knows; he just might have been the better choice).

Maybe the new guy knows the ST system inside and out and is an exemplary model of the "Team type player" McDaniels is looking to bring to Denver maybe he wanted a walking breathing example for the players to learn from and be lead by. My guess is Billicheck is pissed about the theft.

spdirty
03-28-2009, 08:57 PM
at least now, should be Cutler who stays, will be McDaniels. A year or 2 down the road that could easily change.

I voted Cutler cuz I misread the poll question. Thought there was a should in there.

FireFly
03-28-2009, 09:10 PM
If a player is supported over the head coach, it sets a very bad precedent for the team

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 09:28 PM
have you read the **** socal has been posting? he took meltdown mode to a whole new level. you all need to learn to respect the coach, hes gonna be here for awhile.

myself and the other McDaniels haters don't need to respect him. we just have to deal with him until Bowlen pulls his head from his ass and cans him.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 09:52 PM
have you read the **** socal has been posting? he took meltdown mode to a whole new level. you all need to learn to respect the coach, hes gonna be here for awhile.

Yes, I did. And no. The rookie HC has to earn respect; that doesn't just come with the title. Trust me on this... if we don't start the season by winning, he'll see a whole new definition of "disrespect"....and it'll be coming from the media as well as from the majority of the fanbase.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 09:54 PM
Maybe the new guy knows the ST system inside and out and is an exemplary model of the "Team type player" McDaniels is looking to bring to Denver maybe he wanted a walking breathing example for the players to learn from and be lead by. My guess is Billicheck is pissed about the theft.

My guess is a lot of Broncos fans are, too. ;)

SouthStndJunkie
03-28-2009, 09:56 PM
If a player is supported over the head coach, it sets a very bad precedent for the team

What about John Elway/Dan Reeves?

You wish Bowlen would have kept Reeves and gotten rid of Elway?

NFLBRONCO
03-28-2009, 10:05 PM
Yes, I did. And no. The rookie HC has to earn respect; that doesn't just come with the title. Trust me on this... if we don't start the season by winning, he'll see a whole new definition of "disrespect"....and it'll be coming from the media as well as from the majority of the fanbase.

I think McD deserves some slack in 09 though. Denver has alot of issues to deal with new system a very bad D. Even if we draft very well alot of rookies need time to shine. Alot of teams we play in 09 are better then we are no matter who is coaching. I would say the exact thing if Shanny was here (Except new system of course) still. I think 8 wins would be a great start. Even if I hated McD like alot here do I'd realize we aren't good enough yet to EXPECT to win alot in 09.

baja
03-28-2009, 10:08 PM
What about John Elway/Dan Reeves?

You wish Bowlen would have kept Reeves and gotten rid of Elway?

The difference is they were both known commodities and Bowlen correctly assessed that Revees' time to go had come even without the Elway issue IMO.

Does anyone think McD could get fired before he ever got 1 mini camp because his childish QB is mad at him and happens to have a lot of potential. That's just silly. I thought these polls would provoke thought and people would realize that McDaniels ain't goin anywhere.

SouthStndJunkie
03-28-2009, 10:09 PM
The difference is they were both known commodities and Bowlen correctly assessed that Revees' time to go had come even without the Elway issue IMO.

Does anyone think McD could get fired before he ever got 1 mini camp because his childish QB is mad at him and happens to have a lot of potential. That's just silly. I thought these polls would provoke thought and people would realize that McDaniels ain't goin anywhere.

I was simply refuting the blanket statement that Firefly made.

SouthStndJunkie
03-28-2009, 10:10 PM
I know McDamnit is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

SouthStndJunkie
03-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Besides, I think McDaniels and Cutler will mend fences enough to try and make it work this year.

Popps
03-28-2009, 10:16 PM
Haha! I voted he'd keep Cutler. Obviously a mistake.

Baja, the thread title says... "if one has to go"... but the poll question is which one do they keep.

I answered the poll to the thread title. (Which one would go.)

Oops.

baja
03-28-2009, 10:16 PM
I was simply refuting the blanket statement that Firefly made.

i understood that Junkie but there are many here that would link the two unique situations together and I wanted to point out they are different scenarios that's all.

baja
03-28-2009, 10:20 PM
Haha! I voted he'd keep Cutler. Obviously a mistake.

Baja, the thread title says... "if one has to go"... but the poll question is which one do they keep.

I answered the poll to the thread title. (Which one would go.)

Oops.

My bad! I should have put a little more thought into the wording, I agree it's confusing. ;D

NFLBRONCO
03-28-2009, 10:21 PM
Besides, I think McDaniels and Cutler will mend fences enough to try and make it work this year.

What if we go 6-10 in 09 will Cutler want to be a Bronco in 2010?

baja
03-28-2009, 10:24 PM
Besides, I think McDaniels and Cutler will mend fences enough to try and make it work this year.

Ya I think that is the odds on bet too... but as you busted me on at the beginning of the first poll it was very quiet in here. I think the polls drew out some thoughtful discussion.

NUB
03-28-2009, 10:24 PM
Ya the voting/questions weren't aligned right there.

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 10:38 PM
I think McD deserves some slack in 09 though. Denver has alot of issues to deal with new system a very bad D. Even if we draft very well alot of rookies need time to shine. Alot of teams we play in 09 are better then we are no matter who is coaching. I would say the exact thing if Shanny was here (Except new system of course) still. I think 8 wins would be a great start. Even if I hated McD like alot here do I'd realize we aren't good enough yet to EXPECT to win alot in 09.

Denver had a few issues to deal with, McDaniels added more than were there to begin with. Fixing the defense, making the ST better, getting a running game going, and letting the offense learn a new system.

he came in dumped garbage from the defense.....Plus
he replaced old crap with old guys who aren't much better....draw
he dumped a guy who was one of the tops at his position for a former Patriot who brings no clear upgrade....Minus
he messed with a pro bowl QB out of ignorance.....minus
he ignored the press for weeks....minus
he is on a power trip.....minus
he refuses to fix the most important failure he has.....minus

so far he has added more to the issues than were there to begin with.

with that in mind, it is fair to blame him if the season is a failure. had he come in and worked on what was a problem from last season and not added more problems and we had a bad year, fans would have been understanding about, the fact it is his 1st year, the team is rebuilding, but the youth and talent is there and we'll be good in the near future.

but he came in and acted as if he had a resume like Belicheat, and treated the fans, players, and media how they do in NE, and that changed everyone's feelings towards him. he now has no option but to win now, or be labeled a failure by the fans and media.

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 10:41 PM
Haha! I voted he'd keep Cutler. Obviously a mistake.

Baja, the thread title says... "if one has to go"... but the poll question is which one do they keep.

I answered the poll to the thread title. (Which one would go.)

Oops.

yeah. i voted that if one was let go now who would it be, and because of that i said Cutler, because by firing McDaniels, Bowlen is forced to admit he made a mistake in the firing of Shanahan, so he is married to Josh for the forseeable future whether it is a good thing or not.

if it was meant to be, who should go if it comes down to that, i change my vote to McDaniels should be the one to go

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 10:43 PM
What if we go 6-10 in 09 will Cutler want to be a Bronco in 2010?

i say, if things go well, and there is no more animosity between him and Josh, and the rest of the franchise, and McDaniels doesn't try to trade him again, it will be all good and he will be ready to move forward with the Broncos in 2010 and beyond

baja
03-28-2009, 11:01 PM
Denver had a few issues to deal with, McDaniels added more than were there to begin with. Fixing the defense, making the ST better, getting a running game going, and letting the offense learn a new system.

he came in dumped garbage from the defense.....Plus
he replaced old crap with old guys who aren't much better....draw
he dumped a guy who was one of the tops at his position for a former Patriot who brings no clear upgrade....Minus
he messed with a pro bowl QB out of ignorance.....minus
he ignored the press for weeks....minus
he is on a power trip.....minus
he refuses to fix the most important failure he has.....minus

so far he has added more to the issues than were there to begin with.

with that in mind, it is fair to blame him if the season is a failure. had he come in and worked on what was a problem from last season and not added more problems and we had a bad year, fans would have been understanding about, the fact it is his 1st year, the team is rebuilding, but the youth and talent is there and we'll be good in the near future.

<b>but he came in and acted as if he had a resume like Belicheat, and treated the fans, players, and media how they do in NE, and that changed everyone's feelings towards him. he now has no option but to win now, or be labeled a failure by the fans and media.

Well there is a solid group of people here that feel that way but not sure if that circle of thought widens out from here much.

SouthStndJunkie
03-28-2009, 11:03 PM
What if we go 6-10 in 09 will Cutler want to be a Bronco in 2010?

Damned if I know.

I know he went 7-9 and 8-8 the last 2 years and still wanted to be in Denver.

I know Vanderbilt was not a powerhouse and he wanted to be there.

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 11:10 PM
Well there is a solid group of people here that feel that way but not sure if that circle of thought widens out from here much.

see, and i believe that if Jay is traded to say Tampa Bay or Detroit and he leads either of those teams to a record better than Denver has at the end of the year. the hate McDaniels is getting now, will be a fart in a hurricane compared to the hate he will receive after this season

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 11:11 PM
Damned if I know.

I know he went 7-9 and 8-8 the last 2 years and still wanted to be in Denver.

I know Vanderbilt was not a powerhouse and he wanted to be there.

the guy just wants his respect that he has earned. give him that and he will gladly lead his teammates, regardless of his feelings toward the coach

SoCalBronco
03-28-2009, 11:23 PM
Well there is a solid group of people here that feel that way but not sure if that circle of thought widens out from here much.

I dunno baja, I think OSKIE remarked a little while back that everytime (well...maybe not everytime, but often) when he goes out to the stores and supermarkets and stuff he commonly hears these criticisms from the everyday Joe fans "on the ground" in Denver. Granted, these are anecdotes ofcourse and whether they represent an appropriate sample size is a fair concern, but it does seem that there is a fairly decent sized cross section of the fan base that feels this way, so I'm not sure if your statement that the circle of thought doesnt widen out from this website too much is really accurate.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 11:24 PM
I think McD deserves some slack in 09 though. Denver has alot of issues to deal with new system a very bad D. Even if we draft very well alot of rookies need time to shine. Alot of teams we play in 09 are better then we are no matter who is coaching. I would say the exact thing if Shanny was here (Except new system of course) still. I think 8 wins would be a great start. Even if I hated McD like alot here do I'd realize we aren't good enough yet to EXPECT to win alot in 09.

Because of the way he's behaved since arriving here, he gets no slack whatsoever from me. Yes, we have a very tough schedule. And yes, we have a lot of areas that needed to be addressed. He instead chose to f*** with areas that might have been OK without his "tinkering". That's on him.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 11:28 PM
What if we go 6-10 in 09 will Cutler want to be a Bronco in 2010?

Because he doesn't trust the Patriot, he doesn't want to be a Bronco in '09. If he stays and we go 6-10, he'll want to be anywhere else in "10.

tsiguy96
03-28-2009, 11:32 PM
Because of the way he's behaved since arriving here, he gets no slack whatsoever from me. Yes, we have a very tough schedule. And yes, we have a lot of areas that needed to be addressed. He instead chose to **** with areas that might have been OK without his "tinkering". That's on him.

or, he thought he would make a near lateral move at QB (and yes, given how good cassell played last year under the same system that is very QB friendly) while also getting picks to help fix the real problem with the team: the defense.

his "tinkering" could have single handedly saved this season had he gotten enough in return for cutler.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 11:34 PM
Denver had a few issues to deal with, McDaniels added more than were there to begin with. Fixing the defense, making the ST better, getting a running game going, and letting the offense learn a new system.

he came in dumped garbage from the defense.....Plus
he replaced old crap with old guys who aren't much better....draw
he dumped a guy who was one of the tops at his position for a former Patriot who brings no clear upgrade....Minus
he messed with a pro bowl QB out of ignorance.....minus
he ignored the press for weeks....minus
he is on a power trip.....minus
he refuses to fix the most important failure he has.....minus

so far he has added more to the issues than were there to begin with.

with that in mind, it is fair to blame him if the season is a failure. had he come in and worked on what was a problem from last season and not added more problems and we had a bad year, fans would have been understanding about, the fact it is his 1st year, the team is rebuilding, but the youth and talent is there and we'll be good in the near future.

but he came in and acted as if he had a resume like Belicheat, and treated the fans, players, and media how they do in NE, and that changed everyone's feelings towards him. he now has no option but to win now, or be labeled a failure by the fans and media.

Good post.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 11:37 PM
or, he thought he would make a near lateral move at QB (and yes, given how good cassell played last year under the same system that is very QB friendly) while also getting picks to help fix the real problem with the team: the defense.

his "tinkering" could have single handedly saved this season had he gotten enough in return for cutler.

Yeah, right. The only thing he's done to significantly help the defense is to acquire Brian Dawkins. We need help on the line (pass rush). And rookie linemen take time to develop, so please don't tell me to be patient and wait for the draft.

tsiguy96
03-28-2009, 11:43 PM
Yeah, right. The only thing he's done to significantly help the defense is to acquire Brian Dawkins. We need help on the line (pass rush). And rookie linemen take time to develop, so please don't tell me to be patient and wait for the draft.

we have a different system, one that uses 3 down linemen. we signed a NT in fields that should fill in well, and already had multiple people on the roster that fit good at 3-4 DE as well as all new defensive coaches.

Blueflame
03-28-2009, 11:46 PM
we have a different system, one that uses 3 down linemen. we signed a NT in fields that should fill in well, and already had multiple people on the roster that fit good at 3-4 DE as well as all new defensive coaches.

Ok.... if you say so.

tsiguy96
03-28-2009, 11:48 PM
Ok.... if you say so.

its called being optimistic. when there is a situation i cannot control, i tend to take the brighter side. im going to watch the broncos and root for them to win next year, are you?

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 11:56 PM
we have a different system, one that uses 3 down linemen. we signed a NT in fields that should fill in well, and already had multiple people on the roster that fit good at 3-4 DE as well as all new defensive coaches.

fields has been an underachiever his entire career. Peterson while he has he body type has shown nothing that makes me think he will be a good 3-4 DE, and who else is there. Thomas, he is playing a new position, so who knows, and Crowder, he couldn't crack the 45 man gameday roster on a defense as bad as ours last season

Moss and Doom are playing brand new positions(i have faith in Doom but none in Moss) the rest of the LBs are nothing special. the best 2 are Woodyard and Larsen and more than likely they will be backups.

there is no real upgrade in Hill from Bly, and Dawkins brings good leadership, but will he play like he did in Phily?


not much has been done to fix the D other than dumping the dead weight from last season. no real upgrades to last years trash has been brought in

SoCalBronco
03-29-2009, 12:05 AM
The poll should be amended as follows:

If Bowlen could only keep one of them, who would he keep?

A. Jay Cutler
B. Josh McDaniels
C. Carl's Jr.'s Kentucky Bourbon Burger

Honestly, that was the funniest commercial ever. The first time I saw that Bourbon Burger commercial I immediately thought of Bowlen, which suggests that I spend way too much time on here. :)

baja
03-29-2009, 12:08 AM
I dunno baja, I think OSKIE remarked a little while back that everytime (well...maybe not everytime, but often) when he goes out to the stores and supermarkets and stuff he commonly hears these criticisms from the everyday Joe fans "on the ground" in Denver. Granted, these are anecdotes ofcourse and whether they represent an appropriate sample size is a fair concern, but it does seem that there is a fairly decent sized cross section of the fan base that feels this way, so I'm not sure if your statement that the circle of thought doesnt widen out from this website too much is really accurate.

Well I always suspected OSKIE's grocery runs and subsequent conversations were an accurate barometer on the pulse of Bronco fandom. ;D

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 12:22 AM
fields has been an underachiever his entire career. Peterson while he has he body type has shown nothing that makes me think he will be a good 3-4 DE, and who else is there. Thomas, he is playing a new position, so who knows, and Crowder, he couldn't crack the 45 man gameday roster on a defense as bad as ours last season

Moss and Doom are playing brand new positions(i have faith in Doom but none in Moss) the rest of the LBs are nothing special. the best 2 are Woodyard and Larsen and more than likely they will be backups.

there is no real upgrade in Hill from Bly, and Dawkins brings good leadership, but will he play like he did in Phily?


not much has been done to fix the D other than dumping the dead weight from last season. no real upgrades to last years trash has been brought in

thats what the draft is for. you really expect any coach could have done any better given the pathetic talent he was left with on defense? he dumped the dead weight and is starting over, and given that it takes more then a single year to completely rebuild a defense from the ground up, id say hes doing a very, very good job.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 01:30 AM
thats what the draft is for. you really expect any coach could have done any better given the pathetic talent he was left with on defense? he dumped the dead weight and is starting over, and given that it takes more then a single year to completely rebuild a defense from the ground up, id say hes doing a very, very good job.

And linemen take a year or two to develop. They don't just go out there and dominate from Day One.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 01:44 AM
thats what the draft is for. you really expect any coach could have done any better given the pathetic talent he was left with on defense? he dumped the dead weight and is starting over, and given that it takes more then a single year to completely rebuild a defense from the ground up, id say hes doing a very, very good job.


yes, i think a lot of coaches could have done a better job than he has. he dumped the dead weight, any new HC would have, and would have done so without dicking with the best player and lone strength of the team. and don't say it takes more than 1 year to rebuild a defense. the Dolphins fielded a team with something like 25 new players on their roster and went from 1-15 to winning the AFC East in 1 year. so it is possible if you actually make an effort to do it. in the NFL every year teams who were garbage the year before become contenders.

yes you keep pointing to the draft, and i agree. but the draft isn't really going to fix the D this year. we are going to be a defense of over the hill guys, holdovers from last year, and rookies. there is no real improvement.

add in that it is going to take the majority of the rookies time to become any good if they ever will be and that makes this season a loss before it even begins


he had opportunities to really fix this defense in FA if he wanted. he had an unbelievable amount of space under the salary cap and didn't use it. he brought in Dawkins to be a leader and a bunch of underachievers, or scrubs, or old guys or un-needed guys.

the Dawkins signing is the best one and not even for ability on the field but for leadership. outside of that signing the best one was Fields who has always been an underachiever and is a guy who we could use as a backup, not as our more than likely starter at NT, the most important position in a 3-4.

Grady Jackson, Olshansky, Canty, James Sanders, Ray Lewis, Atogwe, just a few of the top guys who were available and would have made an impact for this defense, and filled needs. yes they would have been a little pricy, but worth it. they filled needs and are good at their jobs. and most of them could be counted on to be of use for a few years at least. but instead of spending some money, and sending a message that he is building to win now, he brought in nobodies who are not much of an upgrade over what we had last season. and now we have to count on rookies to have a good impact to hopefully finish the season at .500

his moves haven't inspired much confidence in me about him. in fact they have me wondering how early in next years draft we will be picking, and if we are ever going to be any good while he is here

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 02:00 AM
yes, i think a lot of coaches could have done a better job than he has. he dumped the dead weight, any new HC would have, and would have done so without dicking with the best player and lone strength of the team. and don't say it takes more than 1 year to rebuild a defense. the Dolphins fielded a team with something like 25 new players on their roster and went from 1-15 to winning the AFC East in 1 year. so it is possible if you actually make an effort to do it. in the NFL every year teams who were garbage the year before become contenders.

yes you keep pointing to the draft, and i agree. but the draft isn't really going to fix the D this year. we are going to be a defense of over the hill guys, holdovers from last year, and rookies. there is no real improvement.

add in that it is going to take the majority of the rookies time to become any good if they ever will be and that makes this season a loss before it even begins


he had opportunities to really fix this defense in FA if he wanted. he had an unbelievable amount of space under the salary cap and didn't use it. he brought in Dawkins to be a leader and a bunch of underachievers, or scrubs, or old guys or un-needed guys.

the Dawkins signing is the best one and not even for ability on the field but for leadership. outside of that signing the best one was Fields who has always been an underachiever and is a guy who we could use as a backup, not as our more than likely starter at NT, the most important position in a 3-4.

Grady Jackson, Olshansky, Canty, James Sanders, Ray Lewis, Atogwe, just a few of the top guys who were available and would have made an impact for this defense, and filled needs. yes they would have been a little pricy, but worth it. they filled needs and are good at their jobs. and most of them could be counted on to be of use for a few years at least. but instead of spending some money, and sending a message that he is building to win now, he brought in nobodies who are not much of an upgrade over what we had last season. and now we have to count on rookies to have a good impact to hopefully finish the season at .500

his moves haven't inspired much confidence in me about him. in fact they have me wondering how early in next years draft we will be picking, and if we are ever going to be any good while he is here

I really expect that we'll be picking in the top ten... for the first time since 1991.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 02:16 AM
I really expect that we'll be picking in the top ten... for the first time since 1991.

i agree, and it won't surprise me to see top 5

Broncobuddy7
03-29-2009, 02:22 AM
This post is simply so I can see my new avatar

baja
03-29-2009, 06:59 AM
And linemen take a year or two to develop. They don't just go out there and dominate from Day One.

And your point is?

Shanny left the cupboard bare on D, some of you seem to have expected mcD to have rebuilt the D in 3 months. The same people were willing to give Shanny another year because why? The previous ten were not enough. Why don't you give this kid a chance.

Broncos_OTM
03-29-2009, 07:34 AM
If i was to keep either of the Two it would be Cutler. But then again i would have hired Spags, Had Bates as my offensive Cordinator, and ran with it.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 11:56 AM
And your point is?

Shanny left the cupboard bare on D, some of you seem to have expected mcD to have rebuilt the D in 3 months. The same people were willing to give Shanny another year because why? The previous ten were not enough. Why don't you give this kid a chance.

The point is that with all he's already done, he isn't gonna get a break. Not from a lot of fans and definitely not from the Denver media. Particularly if he does end up trading our best player away. He's totally tossed out any "honeymoon" he might have had and will be "under the gun" to win immediately. Even Bowlen will be likely to lose patience if they don't win.

ZONA
03-29-2009, 01:15 PM
Can we please have another useless poll on the matter. Is it possible to talk about other Broncos things until we get more info on this situation. I mean, who should go, should Bowlen sell the team, should gay people go straight. What's next? Sorry baja but please give it a break for at least a week.

TDmvp
03-29-2009, 01:18 PM
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8445/designalldll.jpghttp://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9463/sksvj8.gif


I Believe this thread sucks ...

baja
03-29-2009, 02:59 PM
Can we please have another useless poll on the matter. Is it possible to talk about other Broncos things until we get more info on this situation. I mean, who should go, should Bowlen sell the team, should gay people go straight. What's next? Sorry baja but please give it a break for at least a week.

I think it is explained in the FAQ how to avoid opening and reading polls or even entire threads.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 03:03 PM
The point is that with all he's already done, he isn't gonna get a break. Not from a lot of fans and definitely not from the Denver media. Particularly if he does end up trading our best player away. He's totally tossed out any "honeymoon" he might have had and will be "under the gun" to win immediately. Even Bowlen will be likely to lose patience if they don't win.

how about this: this year, when hte broncos are playing, i will be supporting the team, happy when they win mad when they lose, same as every other year. you, on the other hand, will say how much mcdaniels sucks when htey lose and how jay cutler saved his ass when they win. there will never, ever be any convincing you that mcdaniels is not the bad guy. he heard a trade proposal, said no because he didnt get enough in return, and you are still being a whiny little bitch about it because after all the statements about cutler is our QB etc etc, its still not enough.

**** you, and **** all the pathetic fans like you. go root for the chargers, youll fit right in there.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 03:23 PM
how about this: this year, when hte broncos are playing, i will be supporting the team, happy when they win mad when they lose, same as every other year. you, on the other hand, will say how much mcdaniels sucks when htey lose and how jay cutler saved his ass when they win. there will never, ever be any convincing you that mcdaniels is not the bad guy. he heard a trade proposal, said no because he didnt get enough in return, and you are still being a whiny little b**** about it because after all the statements about cutler is our QB etc etc, its still not enough.

**** you, and **** all the pathetic fans like you. go root for the chargers, youll fit right in there.

Putting your head in the sand doesn't change the fact that Denver isn't going to be a very hospitable town for McDaniels if the team does not win. And that's not on me or about me at all; it's a direct result of McDaniels' own actions.

Your last sentence isn't even worth responding to.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 03:34 PM
Putting your head in the sand doesn't change the fact that Denver isn't going to be a very hospitable town for McDaniels if the team does not win. And that's not on me or about me at all; it's a direct result of McDaniels' own actions.

Your last sentence isn't even worth responding to.

the team WAS NOT winning before, why should the team grab its pitchforks over one season with a new head coach who was just given one of the worst defenses in NFL history, and an offense that inefficiently moved the ball for the majority of the season?

and this is all hypothetical, morons like you just automatically assume the team is going to lose when we are not even at the draft yet. i repeat: we are not even at the draft.

hes done more to fix the defense in his one season then shanny has tried in the last 5-6.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 03:36 PM
the team WAS NOT winning before, why should the team grab its pitchforks over one season with a new head coach who was just given one of the worst defenses in NFL history, and an offense that inefficiently moved the ball for the majority of the season?

and this is all hypothetical, morons like you just automatically assume the team is going to lose when we are not even at the draft yet. i repeat: we are not even at the draft.

hes done more to fix the defense in his one season then shanny has tried in the last 5-6.

I'm sure that the Denver sportswriters will take all of that into consideration before writing scathing columns. ::)

SouthStndJunkie
03-29-2009, 03:38 PM
But then again i would have hired Spags, Had Bates as my offensive Cordinator, and ran with it.

That was my preference.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 03:41 PM
I'm sure that the Denver sportswriters will take all of that into consideration before writing scathing columns. ::)

they are reporters, thats what they do, create sensationalism when there is none. i would hope fans would be more rational in their thinking.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 03:41 PM
That was my preference.

i dont think its a coincidence spags almost did not get hired this year. if jason garrett would have taken the same contract, he woulda got hired not spags, and spags would still be in NY.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 03:46 PM
they are reporters, thats what they do, create sensationalism when there is none. i would hope fans would be more rational in their thinking.

A lot of fans already hate McDaniels. More will hate him if he trades Cutler. And even more will hate him if the team doesn't win. It's the way things are in today's "win now or else" NFL.

rastaman
03-29-2009, 03:50 PM
Does this question really need to be asked? The owner said as much; it's Cutler.

"If you're not a happy camper there's no reason to be here," or something like that.

Bowlen was Drunk when he made that comment!!!Hilarious!

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 03:51 PM
A lot of fans already hate McDaniels. More will hate him if he trades Cutler. And even more will hate him if the team doesn't win. It's the way things are in today's "win now or else" NFL.

they have no reason to hate mcdaniels, he had every right to seek a trade for cutler (which by most accounts, he is the one that said no to them, he got offers and they werent good enough and said no)

any player who turns into a big baby like cutler is now deserves to get put on the block, if we get a player and some firsts i hope they pull the trigger too. the fans who are so dead set on cutler are not looking at the whole team, they are looking merely at the extremely immature QB. these "fans" will hate him regardless if he wins 2 SBs in his first year, they will say its everything else, they will say its because of mike nolan, because jay cutler played great or anyone, but people like you will never, ever admit that mcdaniels is a good coach.

SouthStndJunkie
03-29-2009, 03:55 PM
i dont think its a coincidence spags almost did not get hired this year. if jason garrett would have taken the same contract, he woulda got hired not spags, and spags would still be in NY.

Some guys can interview well and some can simply coach well.

As I recall, Spags was offered the head coaching job for Washington the year before....and he turned it down.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 04:02 PM
Some guys can interview well and some can simply coach well.

As I recall, Spags was offered the head coaching job for Washington the year before....and he turned it down.

i think the people who run the multi-billion dollar business that is the rams, broncos, chiefs etc realize there is more to it than an interview, and i assure you they took that into account. if you think an interview alone gets you this job, you are mistaken.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 04:03 PM
they have no reason to hate mcdaniels, he had every right to seek a trade for cutler (which by most accounts, he is the one that said no to them, he got offers and they werent good enough and said no)

any player who turns into a big baby like cutler is now deserves to get put on the block, if we get a player and some firsts i hope they pull the trigger too. the fans who are so dead set on cutler are not looking at the whole team, they are looking merely at the extremely immature QB. these "fans" will hate him regardless if he wins 2 SBs in his first year, they will say its everything else, they will say its because of mike nolan, because jay cutler played great or anyone, but people like you will never, ever admit that mcdaniels is a good coach.

Anyone who doesn't like him has their own reasons for forming a negative opinion. Just because you may not deem those reasons valid does not mean they don't exist or aren't valid to others.

By the same token, the McDaniels defenders would still insist that he's a good coach even if he took the team to a Lions-esque 0-16.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 04:05 PM
Anyone who doesn't like him has their own reasons for forming a negative opinion. Just because you may not deem those reasons valid does not mean they don't exist or aren't valid to others.

By the same token, the McDaniels defenders would still insist that he's a good coach even if he took the team to a Lions-esque 0-16.

no, because most mcdaniels defenders are saying "dont be stupid and lets see what the on field product looks like" where as people like you are saying "omg its all over. blow up the team and start again, fire mcdaniels NOW" when nothing has realistically happened on the team yet. as soon as cutler gets over his untouchable ego, he will be back on the team and then they can focus on winning games.

SouthStndJunkie
03-29-2009, 04:08 PM
i think the people who run the multi-billion dollar business that is the rams, broncos, chiefs etc realize there is more to it than an interview, and i assure you they took that into account. if you think an interview alone gets you this job, you are mistaken.

Why are you arguing with me?

I stated my opinion and you are not going to change it.

If you think these owners make the right decisions all the time, then you are high.

Obviously Spags impressed the Skins last year and the Rams this year.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 04:09 PM
Why are you arguing with me?

I stated my opinion and you are not going to change it.

If you think these owners make the right decision all the time, then you are high.

Obviously Spags impressed the Skins last year and the Rams this year.

they dont always make the right decisions, but they have far, far, far, far more information on which they make that decision then you do staring at your TV from the couch.

SouthStndJunkie
03-29-2009, 04:11 PM
they dont always make the right decisions, but they have far, far, far, far more information on which they make that decision then you do staring at your TV from the couch.

By your rationale, they have more information than you as well, which in turn nullifies any arguments that you are making.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 04:15 PM
By your rationale, they have more information than you as well, which in turn nullifies any arguments that you are making.

the argument im making is that i will trust the owner and other people qualified to make the correct decision for this team BECAUSE they have said information. thats wrong how?

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 04:19 PM
no, because most mcdaniels defenders are saying "dont be stupid and lets see what the on field product looks like" where as people like you are saying "omg its all over. blow up the team and start again, fire mcdaniels NOW" when nothing has realistically happened on the team yet. as soon as cutler gets over his untouchable ego, he will be back on the team and then they can focus on winning games.

We don't have to wait to see what the on-field product looks like before determining that perhaps we don't like the direction he's choosing to go. Or to disapprove of some of his decisions.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 04:37 PM
We don't have to wait to see what the on-field product looks like before determining that perhaps we don't like the direction he's choosing to go. Or to disapprove of some of his decisions.

but you do have to, and there is absolutely no argument to this, wait to see how the on field product looks before deciding he has failed and should be fired.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 04:44 PM
but you do have to, and there is absolutely no argument to this, wait to see how the on field product looks before deciding he has failed and should be fired.

No. I can form the opinion at any time that (I think) the team would be better off if he'd never been hired in the first place. We do have to wait and see which one of us was right in the end. I genuinely hope I'm the one who's wrong because in this instance, being right would not yield any fun or pleasure at all.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 04:47 PM
No. I can form the opinion at any time that (I think) the team would be better off if he'd never been hired in the first place. We do have to wait and see which one of us was right in the end. I genuinely hope I'm the one who's wrong because in this instance, being right would not yield any fun or pleasure at all.

then stop being so doom and gloom and seeing everything like its gonna fail and start seeing whats going right and hoping that they have a good year. sky is falling fans suck, they are no fun and it honestly cant be any fun to sit there and cry all day about how the team is gonna be bad. it really cant. try being optimistic

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 04:52 PM
then stop being so doom and gloom and seeing everything like its gonna fail and start seeing whats going right and hoping that they have a good year. sky is falling fans suck, they are no fun and it honestly cant be any fun to sit there and cry all day about how the team is gonna be bad. it really cant. try being optimistic

I call 'em as I see 'em.... and at this point, I really don't see much to be optimistic about. At least I'm not setting myself up for a horrendous attitude if we don't make the playoffs when I'm fully prepared for... and expecting 5-6 wins.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 04:53 PM
I call 'em as I see 'em.... and at this point, I really don't see much to be optimistic about. At least I'm not setting myself up for a horrendous attitude if we don't make the playoffs when I'm fully prepared for... and expecting 5-6 wins.

ok, you do that. ill have fun watching the team this year while you are busy moping in the corner like jay.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 05:03 PM
ok, you do that. ill have fun watching the team this year while you are busy moping in the corner like jay.

I'm not the one with unrealistic expectations, so I'll be good either way.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 05:56 PM
the argument im making is that i will trust the owner and other people qualified to make the correct decision for this team BECAUSE they have said information. thats wrong how?

a large portion of your argument comes from the fact that you believe Bowlen with all of his advice and information on everything to do with his team, that because he chose McDaniels that is what is best for the team.

however on the case with every owner in the league, even with all their advice and information on everything, they still make mistakes. was it a mistake for him to keep Mike for another decade after our super bowl wins....probably, but it was his choice, so according to you it was the right choice.

no in this current situation, you are saying that because he chose McDaniels, everything McDaniels does, if fine.
however, regardless of what McDaniels does, right or wrong, Bowlen won't say anything do to his own ego and pride. for all the information they get, it comes down to whether or not the owner wants to admit to being wrong.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 05:59 PM
but you do have to, and there is absolutely no argument to this, wait to see how the on field product looks before deciding he has failed and should be fired.

you're wrong about that. a fan has the right to not like the moves a coach is making long before we see the finished product.

i for one don't like any of the signings he has made outside of Dawkins. i don't like that we are switching to a 3-4, i don't like that he has pissed off the franchise's most important piece.

when the finished product hits the field however, i may be inclined to change my opinion, but as it stands right now, i don't like anything about what he has done, nothing he has done in my eyes says he has made us better than we were last season

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 06:00 PM
you're wrong about that. a fan has the right to not like the moves a coach is making long before we see the finished product.

i for one don't like any of the signings he has made outside of Dawkins. i don't like that we are switching to a 3-4, i don't like that he has pissed off the franchise's most important piece.

when the finished product hits the field however, i may be inclined to change my opinion, but as it stands right now, i don't like anything about what he has done, nothing he has done in my eyes says he has made us better than we were last season

too bad the game isnt played in the offseason, ask daniel snyder or al davis.

vancejohnson82
03-29-2009, 06:03 PM
I call 'em as I see 'em.... and at this point, I really don't see much to be optimistic about. At least I'm not setting myself up for a horrendous attitude if we don't make the playoffs when I'm fully prepared for... and expecting 5-6 wins.

there's really nothing to call on what you've seen...because we haven't seen anything yet...

but you're right....we should fire a coach who hasnt coached a game and start over on a season that hasn't begun yet

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 06:23 PM
there's really nothing to call on what you've seen...because we haven't seen anything yet...

but you're right....we should fire a coach who hasnt coached a game and start over on a season that hasn't begun yet

We haven't seen a rookie HC totally destroy his relationship with his starting QB? ??? I think we have.

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 07:31 PM
I call 'em as I see 'em.... and at this point, I really don't see much to be optimistic about. At least I'm not setting myself up for a horrendous attitude if we don't make the playoffs when I'm fully prepared for... and expecting 5-6 wins.

Blue, did you honestly think this team was going to make the playoffs next season, knowing that the D and ST are a disaster and will take at least two years to re-build?
And the schedule doesn't help either.

It didn't matter who the HC was going to be, a major overhaul of the team was needed.
As much as I like the offense, it also needed improvement......scoring is what counts, not marching up and down the field, then turning the ball over.
Shortening the field with defensive turnovers and good special teams play will be a huge help.
But again, realistically, that's two years away.

SoCalBronco
03-29-2009, 07:43 PM
Blue, did you honestly think this team was going to make the playoffs next season, knowing that the D and ST are a disaster and will take at least two years to re-build?
And the schedule doesn't help either.



No excuses. He's acting like he's better than anyone else, so he'll be held to that standard.

11-5. I don't care whether the schedule is difficult and I don't care whether Marshall misses half the year. He better produce or get out. He's waived the right to have a grace period by his conduct.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 08:04 PM
Blue, did you honestly think this team was going to make the playoffs next season, knowing that the D and ST are a disaster and will take at least two years to re-build?
And the schedule doesn't help either.

It didn't matter who the HC was going to be, a major overhaul of the team was needed.
As much as I like the offense, it also needed improvement......scoring is what counts, not marching up and down the field, then turning the ball over.
Shortening the field with defensive turnovers and good special teams play will be a huge help.
But again, realistically, that's two years away.

If we had kept Shanahan... and Slowik... then no, we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs, especially considering our schedule. However, I think Shanahan would have worked to rebuild the defense via free agency and the draft because the offense was very close to where he wanted it to be. I would have had higher expectations with Shanahan, however. For one thing, our QB wouldn't have asked to be traded and the whole league wouldn't be laughing at our HC.

I really think we're more than two years away now.

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 08:24 PM
No excuses. He's acting like he's better than anyone else, so he'll be held to that standard.

11-5. I don't care whether the schedule is difficult and I don't care whether Marshall misses half the year. He better produce or get out. He's waived the right to have a grace period by his conduct.

Fortunately, you have absolutely no say in the future of the HC or anyone else at Dove Valley. ;D

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 08:27 PM
If we had kept Shanahan... and Slowik... then no, we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs, especially considering our schedule. However, I think Shanahan would have worked to rebuild the defense via free agency and the draft because the offense was very close to where he wanted it to be. I would have had higher expectations with Shanahan, however. For one thing, our QB wouldn't have asked to be traded and the whole league wouldn't be laughing at our HC.

I really think we're more than two years away now.

Like I said, no HC could be expected to rebuild this team and take it to the playoffs next season.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 08:27 PM
Fortunately, you have absolutely no say in the future of the HC or anyone else at Dove Valley. ;D

:afro:

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 08:30 PM
Blue, did you honestly think this team was going to make the playoffs next season, knowing that the D and ST are a disaster and will take at least two years to re-build?
And the schedule doesn't help either.

It didn't matter who the HC was going to be, a major overhaul of the team was needed.
As much as I like the offense, it also needed improvement......scoring is what counts, not marching up and down the field, then turning the ball over.
Shortening the field with defensive turnovers and good special teams play will be a huge help.
But again, realistically, that's two years away.

defense, special teams and a RB were all that was needed. all the problems we have now are because of McDaniels.

and he still hasn't addressed the major problems we had last year.

rejects on defense, a long snapper who is not even a lateral move from what we had in Leach, and RB's who either can't be counted on to finish a season, or are at best 3rd down backs.

instead of coming in and addressing what needed work, he came in and dicked around with a QB. the lone bright spot on the ****ing team.

there were problems, but McDaniels added more. and because of that, he has already set forth in motion a problem for himself, in that he has to win now.


had he addressed our problems, basically left the offense alone(save for drafting a good RB) and adding depth, fans would have been understanding, and realized we have a young team, a new coach, new scheme, but we are getting good, and a mediocre season would have been forgiven.

but he came in and trashed everything, acted like Belicheat, pissed off fans and media, turned away our QB, and brought in no one who is an improvement over who was here last season. and because of that, failure is not an option for him this year.

and his own words of we are going to win now, and signing players in there mid 30's is the move of a team built for now which also adds in to his problems.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 08:32 PM
No excuses. He's acting like he's better than anyone else, so he'll be held to that standard.

11-5. I don't care whether the schedule is difficult and I don't care whether Marshall misses half the year. He better produce or get out. He's waived the right to have a grace period by his conduct.

thank you man. exactly what i ave been trying to say. he dug his own grave, and if going to get no sympathy if we are bad next season.

in fact the hate he is receiving now, will be like a fart in a hurricane in comparison to what he will receive next year if he fields a ****ty team.

and all that is due to his attitude.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 08:34 PM
Like I said, no HC could be expected to rebuild this team and take it to the playoffs next season.

"Playoffs" aren't my "benchmark".... 8-8 is. With the exception of 2 unusually injury-plagued seasons (6-10 in '99 and 7-9 in '07) , Shanahan's Broncos were always 8-8 or better. And if 8-8 was unacceptable for Shanahan, then fewer wins than that is also unacceptable, even for a rookie HC in a rebuilding year.

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 08:36 PM
defense, special teams and a RB were all that was needed. all the problems we have now are because of McDaniels.

and he still hasn't addressed the major problems we had last year.

rejects on defense, a long snapper who is not even a lateral move from what we had in Leach, and RB's who either can't be counted on to finish a season, or are at best 3rd down backs.

instead of coming in and addressing what needed work, he came in and dicked around with a QB. the lone bright spot on the ****ing team.

there were problems, but McDaniels added more. and because of that, he has already set forth in motion a problem for himself, in that he has to win now.


had he addressed our problems, basically left the offense alone(save for drafting a good RB) and adding depth, fans would have been understanding, and realized we have a young team, a new coach, new scheme, but we are getting good, and a mediocre season would have been forgiven.

but he came in and trashed everything, acted like Belicheat, pissed off fans and media, turned away our QB, and brought in no one who is an improvement over who was here last season. and because of that, failure is not an option for him this year.

and his own words of we are going to win now, and signing players in there mid 30's is the move of a team built for now which also adds in to his problems.

You're still pissed about Mustard.....right? ;D

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 08:41 PM
Like I said, no HC could be expected to rebuild this team and take it to the playoffs next season.

why don't you talk to the dolphins about that. they fielded a team with 23 new players on the roster and went from 1-15 to 11-5 and winning the AFC East in 1 offseason.

there was no reason to think we couldn't have done that. also, the whole team didn't need to be rebuilt until he got his moronic hands on it, just the defense and special teams and a RB which could have been aquired in the draft and depth

we had an insane amount of cash below the Cap, and there was a lot of good talent and good young talent to go after in FA. Grady Jackson, Canty, Olshansky, Bart Scott, Ray Lewis, James Sanders, Atogwe are just a few of the good 3-4 talented guys available that would have filled needs and made us better.

almost every single one of those guys could have been a guy to build around for at least 3 years if not longer, and we had the money necessary to bring in a few of them plus some of the scrubs we got anyway. all of them are good and filled a need. they might have cost a little bit, but we had the money, they would have filled a need and all would have made us better.

instead McDaniels brought in guys who are not upgrades over what we had last year and has us set up for failure

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 08:42 PM
"Playoffs" aren't my "benchmark".... 8-8 is. With the exception of 2 unusually injury-plagued seasons (6-10 in '99 and 7-9 in '07) , Shanahan's Broncos were always 8-8 or better. And if 8-8 was unacceptable for Shanahan, then fewer wins than that is also unacceptable, even for a rookie HC in a rebuilding year.

Maybe if the same team hits the field next season, with the current schedule and Shanahan, they would go 6-10.
But we don't want the same team.
Two thirds of the team needs a major overhaul and that will take at least two years.
Trying to find ways to hate McDaniels is shooting fish in a barrel........but it doesn't change the fact that most of the same people who were pissed at Bolwen for firing Mike, are now hating McDaniels in the worst way.

Let it go, let's see what we get the next two years.

DenverBrit
03-29-2009, 08:44 PM
why don't you talk to the dolphins about that. they fielded a team with 23 new players on the roster and went from 1-15 to 11-5 and winning the AFC East in 1 offseason.

there was no reason to think we couldn't have done that. also, the whole team didn't need to be rebuilt until he got his moronic hands on it, just the defense and special teams and a RB which could have been aquired in the draft and depth

we had an insane amount of cash below the Cap, and there was a lot of good talent and good young talent to go after in FA. Grady Jackson, Canty, Olshansky, Bart Scott, Ray Lewis, James Sanders, Atogwe are just a few of the good 3-4 talented guys available that would have filled needs and made us better.

almost every single one of those guys could have been a guy to build around for at least 3 years if not longer, and we had the money necessary to bring in a few of them plus some of the scrubs we got anyway. all of them are good and filled a need. they might have cost a little bit, but we had the money, they would have filled a need and all would have made us better.

instead McDaniels brought in guys who are not upgrades over what we had last year and has us set up for failure

Ok, I'm wrong. McDaniels might well take the Broncos to the playoffs next season.

Better?? ;D

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 08:46 PM
You're still pissed about Mustard.....right? ;D

**** Mustard.

i am pissed that he has our pro bowl QB ready to board a plane to anywhere so long as he doesn't have to play for McDip****.

i'm pissed he still hasn't gotten Weigman re-signed

i'm pissed he has done nothing to address the front 7

i'm pissed that the guys he has brought in are not an upgrade over what crap we had last season

i'm pissed that he would rather dump more talented Broncos, for less talented former Patriots.


this guy has done nothing to instill any confidence in him that he was the right man for the job, or that he is going to make this team better, that is why i am pissed at McDumb****

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 08:50 PM
Ok, I'm wrong. McDaniels might well take the Broncos to the playoffs next season.

Better?? ;D

McDaniels will be lucky to lead this team to 3rd place in the AFC West.

McDaniels backers, better get this in their heads. we will be drafting in the top 10 possibly top 5 next season

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 08:52 PM
Maybe if the same team hits the field next season, with the current schedule and Shanahan, they would go 6-10.
But we don't want the same team.
Two thirds of the team needs a major overhaul and that will take at least two years.
Trying to find ways to hate McDaniels is shooting fish in a barrel........but it doesn't change the fact that most of the same people who were pissed at Bolwen for firing Mike, are now hating McDaniels in the worst way.

Let it go, let's see what we get the next two years.

Shanahan wouldn't have kept the same team. He would have addressed the defense and special teams.... and signed a RB. Speculation about that is absurd however, because we'll never know what could have been; we're just stuck with what is. And that is total chaos where there used to be none.

I don't have to look for ways to hate McDaniels; he's giving more valid reasons not to like him all the time. And that has nothing to do with me or with Mike Shanahan; it's all the direct result of McDaniels' own actions.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 08:59 PM
Maybe if the same team hits the field next season, with the current schedule and Shanahan, they would go 6-10.
But we don't want the same team.
Two thirds of the team needs a major overhaul and that will take at least two years.
Trying to find ways to hate McDaniels is shooting fish in a barrel........but it doesn't change the fact that most of the same people who were pissed at Bolwen for firing Mike, are now hating McDaniels in the worst way.

Let it go, let's see what we get the next two years.

no Blueflame is right. the bench mark is 8-8. Philips got fired after going .500 in his time here. Mike got fired after an 8-8 season. if 8-8 is not good enough for them, anything less than 8-8 is failure on McDaniels part, despite the schedule.

half the team needed an overhaul. DEFENSE WAS THE PROBLEM!!! fix that and get the offense a RB and we were fine.

hey, i knew Mike's time was up the minute he said Slowik was staying, i wanted him gone after that.

but my hate for McDaniels isn't due to me wanting Mike back(however had i known the **** storm McDaniels would cause i would take Mike and Slowik over him) my hate for him is in the fact that he has done nothing to make the team better.

at least if Mike were still here, we would have gotten some talent in FA, something that would bring in optimism for the upcoming season. all McDaniels has done is pick at things that didn't need any messing around with, and ignored the biggest problem facing the defense...a ****ty front 7


McDaniels did everything wrong, came in more worried about getting a former QB than he was about making sure Jay knew the system, or fixing the defense, or getting us a RB worth a damn

instead he worked to get Cassel, brought in guys to create the oldest secondary in the league, and underachievers and career backups for the front 7

why should anyone be truly optimistic about him. he has done nothing to warrant any faith or optimism from us fans or media.

tsiguy96
03-29-2009, 09:14 PM
no Blueflame is right. the bench mark is 8-8. Philips got fired after going .500 in his time here. Mike got fired after an 8-8 season. if 8-8 is not good enough for them, anything less than 8-8 is failure on McDaniels part, despite the schedule.

half the team needed an overhaul. DEFENSE WAS THE PROBLEM!!! fix that and get the offense a RB and we were fine.

hey, i knew Mike's time was up the minute he said Slowik was staying, i wanted him gone after that.

but my hate for McDaniels isn't due to me wanting Mike back(however had i known the **** storm McDaniels would cause i would take Mike and Slowik over him) my hate for him is in the fact that he has done nothing to make the team better.

at least if Mike were still here, we would have gotten some talent in FA, something that would bring in optimism for the upcoming season. all McDaniels has done is pick at things that didn't need any messing around with, and ignored the biggest problem facing the defense...a ****ty front 7


McDaniels did everything wrong, came in more worried about getting a former QB than he was about making sure Jay knew the system, or fixing the defense, or getting us a RB worth a damn

instead he worked to get Cassel, brought in guys to create the oldest secondary in the league, and underachievers and career backups for the front 7

why should anyone be truly optimistic about him. he has done nothing to warrant any faith or optimism from us fans or media.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Kaylore
03-29-2009, 09:43 PM
Do people really believe Bowlen will fire McDaniels before trading Cutler? Some of you are total and complete idiots.

Kaylore
03-29-2009, 09:46 PM
Shanahan wouldn't have kept the same team..

:rofl: Yeah right. You know how we know Shanahan would have failed? Because he was going to keep this guy around:

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2005/01/27/175x131/images_sizedimage_027163811.jpg

No matter what happens with McDaniels, our team became instantly better when he left Dove Valley. Even if Mcdaniels does nothing else positive, I will always be grateful to him for helping replace Slowik. When Shanahan said endorsed him for next season and said there would be no change on defense, I lost all desire to even watch the Broncos next year. Shanahan was in denial about the state of the team. He couldn't see how bad we were. He kept apologizing for "not getting the team ready to play" and we kept getting blown out by 50+ points. It was time to move on. McDaniels can at least see the problems clearly.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 09:57 PM
:rofl: Yeah right. You know how we know Shanahan would have failed? Because he was going to keep this guy around:

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2005/01/27/175x131/images_sizedimage_027163811.jpg

No matter what happens with McDaniels, our team became instantly better when he left Dove Valley. Even if Mcdaniels does nothing else positive, I will always be grateful to him for helping replace Slowik. When Shanahan said endorsed him for next season and said there would be no change on defense, I lost all desire to even watch the Broncos next year. Shanahan was in denial about the state of the team. He couldn't see how bad we were. He kept apologizing for "not getting the team ready to play" and we kept getting blown out by 50+ points. It was time to move on. McDaniels can at least see the problems clearly.

Yes, Shanahan/Slowik had to go. That's a "given". I don't give McDaniels credit for that, however... and wish Bowlen had chosen a different new guy.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 10:03 PM
Do people really believe Bowlen will fire McDaniels before trading Cutler? Some of you are total and complete idiots.

i know Bowlen will keep McDaniels, whether or not it is the right move(it isn't)

If one of them has to go, who should it be?....and that answer is McDaniels.
If one of them does go, who will it actually be?.....and that answer is Cutler

NFLBRONCO
03-29-2009, 10:28 PM
Yes, Shanahan/Slowik had to go. That's a "given". I don't give McDaniels credit for that, however... and wish Bowlen had chosen a different new guy.

Just asking who did you want as HC? I wanted Spags most of all but, we'd be in the same boat as McD a rookie HC we have no idea who will do the best for a few years.

OrangeRising
03-29-2009, 10:32 PM
Way out here in Ohio, the word was that Steve Spagnuolo was the odds-on favorite to be the Broncos next coach in the days immediately following the firing of Shanny.

The first I heard of Josh McDaniels is when someone here on the Orange Mane mentioned that Bowlen was very impressed with him during his east coast sweep in January. I was shocked when he was hired so quickly after that.

Ever since then it seems it's been one drama after another, some good (the Dawkins signing), some not so good (releasing Leach for his Patriot friend), capped off with this Cutler mess. I've been a Bronco fan forever so I do honestly wish McDaniels well, but if first impressions are the most lasting, we're off to one hell of a bad start.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 10:32 PM
Just asking who did you want as HC? I wanted Spags most of all but, we'd be in the same boat as McD a rookie HC we have no idea who will do the best for a few years.

I thought Spags would have been a good choice, too. Ideally he would have been open to leaving Bates at OC and the Goodmans on scouting.

NFLBRONCO
03-29-2009, 10:33 PM
no Blueflame is right. the bench mark is 8-8. Philips got fired after going .500 in his time here. Mike got fired after an 8-8 season. if 8-8 is not good enough for them, anything less than 8-8 is failure on McDaniels part, despite the schedule.

half the team needed an overhaul. DEFENSE WAS THE PROBLEM!!! fix that and get the offense a RB and we were fine.

hey, i knew Mike's time was up the minute he said Slowik was staying, i wanted him gone after that.

but my hate for McDaniels isn't due to me wanting Mike back(however had i known the **** storm McDaniels would cause i would take Mike and Slowik over him) my hate for him is in the fact that he has done nothing to make the team better.

at least if Mike were still here, we would have gotten some talent in FA, something that would bring in optimism for the upcoming season. all McDaniels has done is pick at things that didn't need any messing around with, and ignored the biggest problem facing the defense...a ****ty front 7


McDaniels did everything wrong, came in more worried about getting a former QB than he was about making sure Jay knew the system, or fixing the defense, or getting us a RB worth a damn

instead he worked to get Cassel, brought in guys to create the oldest secondary in the league, and underachievers and career backups for the front 7

why should anyone be truly optimistic about him. he has done nothing to warrant any faith or optimism from us fans or media.

Who did you want as new HC?


Let's be fair here Wade and Shanny got fired with system in place. Its unfair to expect 1st time HC with a NEW SYSTEM and a tough Schedule with a very weak D to win alot of games in his first year.
Your right to hate McD but, be alittle realistic.

My guesses for 09

McD: 6-10
Spags: 6-10
Shanny: 7 or 8 wins

I feel no matter who was coaching here in 09 it will be a struggle. We haven't been beating many good teams last few years under Shanahan the genius but, expect a new coach you hate to win alot with
the crap we have in many areas.

Not a huge difference in expectations

baja
03-29-2009, 10:40 PM
Yes, Shanahan/Slowik had to go. That's a "given". I don't give McDaniels credit for that, however... and wish Bowlen had chosen a different new guy.

Jesus Blue you cried blue murder for weeks after Shanny got fired and now you casually say oh it was obvious that Shanny/slowik had to go. Do you not remember your melt down?

A week after cutler comes in you will be saying you never understood all the drama about this.

By mid season you will be all over McDaniels for coach of the year. mark my words.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 10:40 PM
Just asking who did you want as HC? I wanted Spags most of all but, we'd be in the same boat as McD a rookie HC we have no idea who will do the best for a few years.

I wanted Spags or Morris.

both of them would have brought in a lot of defensive minded guys and worked on that, and left the offense alone. Jay would have been left alone, none of this would be happening. our scouting dept of the Goodmans would have been left alone, and we would be taking steps forward in making the team complete.

we wouldn't be in the same boat. rookie HC, yes but he wouldn't have caused more problems than were originally here and pissed off the fan base and media

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 10:46 PM
Who did you want as new HC?


Let's be fair here Wade and Shanny got fired with system in place. Its unfair to expect 1st time HC with a NEW SYSTEM and a tough Schedule with a very weak D to win alot of games.

i agree it is unfair to expect a rookie HC to win a lot right out of the gate.

but in his case, he came in and acted like he knew everything and was better than everyone else, and due to that he lost the right to his honeymoon period.

if he is going to act like he is better than everyone else, he is going to be held to that standard

also we had close to 50 million under the cap, there was good 3-4 defense talent available, and he chose to bring in scrubs. the defense could have really been upgraded this offseason, but he was more interested in scrubs, old guys and underachievers.

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 10:48 PM
Jesus Blue you cried blue murder for weeks after Shanny got fired and now you casually say oh it was obvious that Shanny/slowik had to go. Do you not remember your melt down?

A week after cutler comes in you will be saying you never understood all the drama about this.

By mid season you will be all over McDaniels for coach of the year. mark my words.

Actually, I didn't melt down, Baja.... I've said all along that if keeping Shanahan also meant keeping Slowik, then Shanahan had to go.

And no... I won't like McDaniels by midseason....

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 10:57 PM
Actually, I didn't melt down, Baja.... I've said all along that if keeping Shanahan also meant keeping Slowik, then Shanahan had to go.

And no... I won't like McDaniels by midseason....

i have been in complete agreement with everything you have been saying regarding this situation

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 10:58 PM
i have been in complete agreement with everything you have been saying regarding this situation

^5 :thumbsup:

NFLBRONCO
03-29-2009, 11:01 PM
i agree it is unfair to expect a rookie HC to win a lot right out of the gate.

but in his case, he came in and acted like he knew everything and was better than everyone else, and due to that he lost the right to his honeymoon period.

if he is going to act like he is better than everyone else, he is going to be held to that standard

also we had close to 50 million under the cap, there was good 3-4 defense talent available, and he chose to bring in scrubs. the defense could have really been upgraded this offseason, but he was more interested in scrubs, old guys and underachievers.

Ok I understand your view and I respect that and thanks. To be honest I like what we did in FA because I want us to build D via draft. Big name FA's often times just screw your cap and give little reward. I'd be more interested in signing a big name FA if we were alot closer on D.

NFLBRONCO
03-29-2009, 11:03 PM
I wanted Spags or Morris.

both of them would have brought in a lot of defensive minded guys and worked on that, and left the offense alone. Jay would have been left alone, none of this would be happening. our scouting dept of the Goodmans would have been left alone, and we would be taking steps forward in making the team complete.

we wouldn't be in the same boat. rookie HC, yes but he wouldn't have caused more problems than were originally here and pissed off the fan base and media

Valid points nice post.

BroncoMan4ever
03-29-2009, 11:10 PM
Ok I understand your view and I respect that and thanks. To be honest I like what we did in FA because I want us to build D via draft. Big name FA's often times just screw your cap and give little reward. I'd be more interested in signing a big name FA if we were alot closer on D.

see i agree with your views on building through the draft. but we gave the same amount of money to a 35 year old Safety, as Olshansky got from Dallas. Olshansky is 26 i think and was a good player at a major position of need for us, and we could have added around him as he is young still. James Sanders got a deal for less than Dawkins received i think, and as a young guy who is also experienced in the Pats 3-4 he would have been of more use.

I'm not saying i dislike the Dawkins signing, because i like it for his leadership, i am just pointing out that instead of bringing in young talent we brought in old players at the same cost

i just find a lot of the moves questionable, when younger and more talented alternatives were available for relatively the same amount of money we gave the old guys.


building through the draft is great, but it is also good to get young proven talent in FA for around the same price as the rookies are going to receive.

baja
03-29-2009, 11:11 PM
Actually, I didn't melt down, Baja.... I've said all along that if keeping Shanahan also meant keeping Slowik, then Shanahan had to go.

And no... I won't like McDaniels by midseason....

OK then I'll just save this...

Blueflame
03-29-2009, 11:14 PM
OK then I'll just save this...

;D

baja
03-29-2009, 11:20 PM
.;d

colonelbeef
03-30-2009, 12:35 AM
he keeps mcdaniels, and regrets the decision a few years later

rastaman
03-30-2009, 03:36 AM
have you read the **** socal has been posting? he took meltdown mode to a whole new level. you all need to learn to respect the coach, hes gonna be here for awhile.

Cutler is who we need to respect.....b/c he will be a starting QB on this team longer than McDaniels will be the HC on this team.

rastaman
03-30-2009, 03:52 AM
Do people really believe Bowlen will fire McDaniels before trading Cutler? Some of you are total and complete idiots.

Why not!.......McDaniels has proved nothing except he knows how to add drama and discontent to a team. For all you know McDaniels could be another Dan Reeves or Romeo Crannell. If Bowlen's smart, he will make sure he finds away to make Cutler a "HAPPY CAMPER"!

McDaniels at 32 doesn't have what it takes to win now in the NFL! But hey who knows, Bowlen may call the team in and say, McDaniels is his guy and hands him a 10 year HC contract in front of everyone. And then tell Cutler, its McDaniels way or the "HIGH-WAY"!!!

The Fans are treating McDaniels as if he has 5 - 8 years of head coaching experience and has 11-13 to wins per season...PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 06:24 AM
Why not!.......McDaniels has proved nothing except he knows how to add drama and discontent to a team. For all you know McDaniels could be another Dan Reeves or Romeo Crannell. If Bowlen's smart, he will make sure he finds away to make Cutler a "HAPPY CAMPER"!

Bowlen is smart. It's your smarts I question. The only person that is still adding drama and discontent isn't even in Denver right now. He's in Nashville.

McDaniels at 32 doesn't have what it takes to win now in the NFL! But hey who knows, Bowlen may call the team in and say, McDaniels is his guy and hands him a 10 year HC contract in front of everyone. And then tell Cutler, its McDaniels way or the "HIGH-WAY"!!!

So you know that McDaniels "doesn't have what it takes"? How do you know this? Oh, you don't actually know anything? That's what I thought. Thank you.

The Fans are treating McDaniels as if he has 5 - 8 years of head coaching experience and has 11-13 to wins per season...PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK.

Actually, we're treating him like a guy who hasn't coached a game yet. We don't know how he's going to turn out. He could be another Romeo Crennel. But hey may also be the second coming of Parcells, or BB, or Shanahan.

Maybe you should just admit that you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

baja
03-30-2009, 08:49 AM
<b>Why not!.......McDaniels has proved nothing except he knows how to add drama and discontent to a team. </b>For all you know McDaniels could be another Dan Reeves or Romeo Crannell. If Bowlen's smart, he will make sure he finds away to make Cutler a "HAPPY CAMPER"!

McDaniels at 32 doesn't have what it takes to win now in the NFL! But hey who knows, Bowlen may call the team in and say, McDaniels is his guy and hands him a 10 year HC contract in front of everyone. And then tell Cutler, its McDaniels way or the "HIGH-WAY"!!!

The Fans are treating McDaniels as if he has 5 - 8 years of head coaching experience and has 11-13 to wins per season...PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK.

This keeps coming up. What is so wrong with the HC taking a look at an offer for a player, to me the one out of line is Cutler. Did Elway have a hissy fit when Revees tried to trade him.

tsiguy96
03-30-2009, 08:57 AM
you guys are idiots. its unreal.

Blueflame
03-30-2009, 09:34 AM
This keeps coming up. What is so wrong with the HC taking a look at an offer for a player, to me the one out of line is Cutler. Did Elway have a hissy fit when Revees tried to trade him.

If memory serves me right, he did. It came to an impasse where Bowlen had to choose between Elway and Reeves, and Reeves ended up being fired.

baja
03-30-2009, 09:38 AM
If memory serves me right, he did. It came to an impasse where Bowlen had to choose between Elway and Reeves, and Reeves ended up being fired.

That firing came a full season later I believe.

In the mean time he played, lead the team and always gave 100%.

How do you think Jay would react if McDaniels used the frist round pick on a Quarterback?

DenverBrit
03-30-2009, 09:39 AM
This keeps coming up. What is so wrong with the HC taking a look at an offer for a player, to me the one out of line is Cutler. Did Elway have a hissy fit when Revees tried to trade him.

It's his job to look at offers from teams.

Every coach/GM, on every team, does it every year.

Usually, quietly.....and for good reason. ;D

DenverBrit
03-30-2009, 09:42 AM
Cutler is who we need to respect.....b/c he will be a starting QB on this team longer than McDaniels will be the HC on this team.

Then he needs to get with the team right now and act like a team leader, instead of a jilted schoolgirl.

Both parties have screwed up, but Cutler keeps it going beyond reason.

Blueflame
03-30-2009, 09:43 AM
That firing came a full season later I believe.

In the mean time he played, lead the team and always gave 100%.

How do you think Jay would react if McDaniels used the frist round pick on a Quarterback?

It wasn't my favorite part of Broncos history, so my memory of how it went down could be less than perfect (tried to forget it LOL). But it seems to me that Elway pretty much said he'd rather be traded than continue to work with Dan (perhaps not in those words, but that was the gist of it).

Dunno how Cutler would react... but I do know how Plummer reacted. :P

baja
03-30-2009, 09:48 AM
We had a good team and Elway had lots of miles left in the tank, all we needed that year to be very good was a receiver and there was a good one there in Pickins but what does Revees do he selects a QB (a mostly failed QB at that). John's reaction? He suited up and played his A game like he always did.

Again Blue what do you think Cutler would do in that situation?

Blueflame
03-30-2009, 09:53 AM
We had a good team and Elway had lots of miles left in the tank all we needed was a receiver and there was a good one there in Pickins but what does Revees do he selects a QB. John's reaction? He suited up and played his A game like he always did.

Again Blue what do you think Cutler would do in that situation?

I honestly don't know. While I can speculate.... the use of a first round draft pick usually means that any team is "hedging their bets" at that position... that they want options including a possible change of personnel. I'd think if it happened now, it would mean that the team intended to honor Jay's request to be traded.

baja
03-30-2009, 10:18 AM
I honestly don't know. While I can speculate.... the use of a first round draft pick usually means that any team is "hedging their bets" at that position... that they want options including a possible change of personnel. I'd think if it happened now, it would mean that the team intended to honor Jay's request to be traded.

I'm talking about if Jay was in the situation Elway was in when Revees drafted Tommy 'small hands' Maddox.

Remember Cutler is freaking out because McD listened to an offer what do you think he would have done in Elway's situation ? Please answer the question without the 'but ifs' OK Blue.

oubronco
03-30-2009, 10:24 AM
wasn't Elway older as young as Cutler is I would think that he would freak more so than Elway did JMO

baja
03-30-2009, 10:26 AM
wasn't Elway older as young as Cutler is I would think that he would freak more so than Elway did JMO

Elway played for another 5 or 6 years and won 2 Super Bowls so it's not like he was in the twilight of his career besides with a *1 receiver the Broncos could have made a run that year..

oubronco
03-30-2009, 10:29 AM
yea but hadn't he played more seasons than Cutler and WAY more mature

baja
03-30-2009, 10:35 AM
yea but hadn't he played more seasons than Cutler and WAY more mature

So Cutler's behavior is cool with you because he is 25?

oubronco
03-30-2009, 10:40 AM
So Cutler's behavior is cool with you because he is 25?

HELL NO I like him but he's acting like a young immature punk!! I was just stating that I thought Elway was older and more mature and was a reason he probably would handle it better if they took a QB in the first rd

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 11:30 AM
Why not!.......McDaniels has proved nothing except he knows how to add drama and discontent to a team. For all you know McDaniels could be another Dan Reeves or Romeo Crannell. If Bowlen's smart, he will make sure he finds away to make Cutler a "HAPPY CAMPER"!

McDaniels at 32 doesn't have what it takes to win now in the NFL! But hey who knows, Bowlen may call the team in and say, McDaniels is his guy and hands him a 10 year HC contract in front of everyone. And then tell Cutler, its McDaniels way or the "HIGH-WAY"!!!

The Fans are treating McDaniels as if he has 5 - 8 years of head coaching experience and has 11-13 to wins per season...PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK.

he himself is acting like that. his attitude is that of a coach with actual accomplishments. if he is going to act that way, the fans are going to treat him that way.

and inexperience is still no excuse for stupidity

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 01:12 PM
So Cutler's behavior is cool with you because he is 25?

it's not great, but it is understandable that he isn't as mature as he should be.

look at what he's been. in college he was coddled because he was light years better than anyone else on the team, in the pros Mike and Bates have babied him.

he has not had to be mature until now, and he is learning that the hard way.

i don't think it is right, but i think it is understandable that he is the way he is

baja
03-30-2009, 01:15 PM
I keep hearing Shanahan has coddled Cutler. I have seen no evidence of that. Where does that info come from? Is it rumor like most of the rest of these "Facts"?

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 01:45 PM
I keep hearing Shanahan has coddled Cutler. I have seen no evidence of that. Where does that info come from? Is it rumor like most of the rest of these "Facts"?

dude i am sorry, but you need to change your avatar. the way Mel Brooks is looking in that picture is really creeping me out

baja
03-30-2009, 02:31 PM
dude i am sorry, but you need to change your avatar. the way Mel Brooks is looking in that picture is really creeping me out

Unbind that poor women in yours and I'll accommodate you. ;D

BroncoMan4ever
03-30-2009, 02:40 PM
Unbind that poor women in yours and I'll accommodate you. ;D

Touche sir