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View Full Version : Prostitution: Legalize it?


Popps
03-28-2009, 10:09 AM
Our Shamwow friend cued us up for a poll. Have your say...

~Crash~
03-28-2009, 10:22 AM
why waste time on it. Legalize it

it goes on in every town

Pony Boy
03-28-2009, 10:34 AM
Whether it's a Hooker or you wife, your going to pay for it anyway, so why not!

frerottenextelway
03-28-2009, 10:36 AM
Adults should be able to make adult decisions.

Popps
03-28-2009, 10:37 AM
For me, it's much like the legalizing weed conversation. I wouldn't be using it, but I'd still prefer to see it legal. I don't have any figures, but I imagine we must waste millions per year trying to stop it.

I sat on a jury for a prostitution trial and the judge told us after the trial that with everything factored in, the court cost something like 12K a day to run. (Not sure how he got those figures, but that's what he said.) So, we spent three days trying to decide the fate of some girl who allegedly did a little extra "hand work" during a massage. We found her not guilty due to insufficient evidence and the judge said that happens all the time.

Popps
03-28-2009, 10:39 AM
Adults should be able to make adult decisions.

Yes and no. Smoking meth and killing people are free decisions, but in this case... it's a decision that ultimately harms society less in a legal form than it does in its illegal form, imo.

So, I'm not 100% on board with the "anything someone wants to do is O.K." train. It's case by case, but this just seems to be such an obvious example of where the line has been drawn on the wrong side.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 10:39 AM
Huge revenue can be generated that's for sure.

SouthStndJunkie
03-28-2009, 10:50 AM
There is no doubt that it should be legal.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 10:50 AM
There is no doubt that it should be legal.

Same with weed.

ColoradoDarin
03-28-2009, 10:51 AM
If there was a way to not let it be a public health issue, I'd be for legalizing it.

SouthStndJunkie
03-28-2009, 10:51 AM
Same with weed.

True dat.

frerottenextelway
03-28-2009, 10:53 AM
Yes and no. Smoking meth and killing people are free decisions, but in this case... it's a decision that ultimately harms society less in a legal form than it does in its illegal form, imo.

So, I'm not 100% on board with the "anything someone wants to do is O.K." train. It's case by case, but this just seems to be such an obvious example of where the line has been drawn on the wrong side.

As a general rule, I'm for adults being able to make adult decisions that don't directly endanger someone/something else. Be it drugs, sex, guns, whatever. Let people live their lives how they choose if they're not harming others in the process.

SureShot
03-28-2009, 10:55 AM
Same with weed.

Weed dealing prostitutes?

Pony Boy
03-28-2009, 10:55 AM
Huge revenue can be generated that's for sure.

TAX THE SNATCH!

I see T-shirts here!

spdirty
03-28-2009, 10:56 AM
Yeah I think legalizing brothels like the Bunny Ranch, **** like that wouldn't be so bad. And counties, if they dont want it, could do like they do with alcohol, they can vote to ban it individually as well. But a good idea I think would be to legalize it nationwide yet allow the counties to ban it if they so choose.

Although streetwalking should still be illegal.

Pseudofool
03-28-2009, 10:57 AM
For me, it's much like the legalizing weed conversation. I wouldn't be using it, but I'd still prefer to see it legal. I don't have any figures, but I imagine we must waste millions per year trying to stop it.

I sat on a jury for a prostitution trial and the judge told us after the trial that with everything factored in, the court cost something like 12K a day to run. (Not sure how he got those figures, but that's what he said.) So, we spent three days trying to decide the fate of some girl who allegedly did a little extra "hand work" during a massage. We found her not guilty due to insufficient evidence and the judge said that happens all the time.Did you get her number after the trial? Or is that improper?

frerottenextelway
03-28-2009, 11:02 AM
Did you get her number after the trial? Or is that improper?

It's Jenny. For a good time call 867-5309.

Pseudofool
03-28-2009, 11:05 AM
It's Jenny. For a good time call 867-5309.Bastard.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 11:07 AM
Weed dealing prostitutes?


I like it! i like it!! were on the something here!

Popps
03-28-2009, 11:14 AM
Did you get her number after the trial? Or is that improper?

:spit:

Hogan11
03-28-2009, 11:19 AM
I don't care.

Mogulseeker
03-28-2009, 11:27 AM
As I understand it, it already is a county issue. Technically, prostitution isn't a federal offense, it's just that the vast majority of counties in the US makes it illegal.

I'm for legalizing it, but only on a national stage. It attracts a real shady crowd, and say what you will, it will still increase crime and drug addiction if isolated in certain areas.

So in that case, no... keep it illegal.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 11:32 AM
As I understand it, it already is a county issue. Technically, prostitution isn't a federal offense, it's just that the vast majority of counties in the US makes it illegal.

I'm for legalizing it, but only on a national stage. It attracts a real shady crowd, and say what you will, it will still increase crime and drug addiction if isolated in certain areas.

So in that case, no... keep it illegal.


This isn't the olden days it's a little more advanced than that, heres an example of how it now it's not like starsky and hutch and huggy bear and the only reason they get the shady crowd ( is because it was illegal).
warning XXX
http://www.chickenranchbrothel.com/

Rohirrim
03-28-2009, 11:36 AM
It's an interesting thing to think about. Picture for a moment the kind of people we have running our government. Then contemplate the idea that they are telling you how to live your life; What is appropriate for you, and what is not. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Florida_Bronco
03-28-2009, 11:38 AM
Yeah I think legalizing brothels like the Bunny Ranch, **** like that wouldn't be so bad. And counties, if they dont want it, could do like they do with alcohol, they can vote to ban it individually as well. But a good idea I think would be to legalize it nationwide yet allow the counties to ban it if they so choose.

Although streetwalking should still be illegal.

Agreed.

Broncojef
03-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Weed and prostitution should be legalized, probably another small area where Spider and I will agree on something.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 11:56 AM
I agree about the steetwalkers not being legalized that brings out the low lifes.

HILife
03-28-2009, 12:02 PM
Whether it's a Hooker or you wife, your going to pay for it anyway, so why not!

When you think about it dating is just another name for prostitution. Instead of paying her the money goes to dinner and a movie. So techincial it's already legal, you just have to throw away your money indirectly..

HILife
03-28-2009, 12:05 PM
Weed dealing prostitutes?

OH ****!! that would be HOT! Sir you are a business GENIUS!

Popps
03-28-2009, 12:13 PM
As a general rule, I'm for adults being able to make adult decisions that don't directly endanger someone/something else. Be it drugs, sex, guns, whatever. Let people live their lives how they choose if they're not harming others in the process.

Totally agree, though "not harming others" is the gray area. Some people see abortion as a societal harm, some think it's their own right to choose. We'll never agree on all of this, but I think societally, we can make rational decisions.

You win some and you lose some, in a democracy. That's how it should be, really. Some things you want, just won't ever happen because society at large doesn't see it fit for the big picture.

I'm not that passionate about this particular topic, but I just find our efforts to stop it silly, considering the alternatives.

Now, weed... I've grown fairly passionate about legalizing that.... and I don't smoke at all.

LordHelmchen
03-28-2009, 12:18 PM
here it is legal anyway, so my choice is obvious ;D

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 12:20 PM
Paying for sex and doing drugs is immoral. Keep it illegal.

frerottenextelway
03-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Totally agree, though "not harming others" is the gray area. Some people see abortion as a societal harm, some think it's their own right to choose. We'll never agree on all of this, but I think societally, we can make rational decisions.

You win some and you lose some, in a democracy. That's how it should be, really. Some things you want, just won't ever happen because society at large doesn't see it fit for the big picture.

I'm not that passionate about this particular topic, but I just find our efforts to stop it silly, considering the alternatives.

Now, weed... I've grown fairly passionate about legalizing that.... and I don't smoke at all.

Abortion is unique in that it depends on the subjective question of if a fetus is a human being or not to answer whether you are directly harming someone else. I'm pro-choice because I don't want the Supreme Court deciding a subjective question based on religious beliefs.

DenverBrit
03-28-2009, 12:43 PM
Paying for sex and doing drugs is immoral. Keep it illegal.

What about those who don't think either immoral?
Should others morality be forced on everyone?

Much better to have a choice.....and tax the consumption.

Northman
03-28-2009, 12:46 PM
here it is legal anyway, so my choice is obvious ;D

Ive always loved you avy. Is it anyone in particular?

GoBroncos84
03-28-2009, 12:48 PM
Of course it should be legal. In general, I support legalizing "victimless crimes". People are free to make their own decisions. Sex is legal if free, if someone is so good at it that people will willingly pay for the service then so be it. I would like to see it regulated, maybe there is a licensing process to make sure that the prostitutes are clean. Have some kind of certification. If the prostitute doesn't have that certification then you are taking a risk, but it should still be legal.

So many people "prostitute" themselves as is. Many people are in relationships because their partner has money or power or other trivial things. A lot of people have sex with someone they do not love. It's not a big deal, and if you are morally against the practice then don't engage in it yourself. I have the same stance on drugs, as others have mentioned. Make it legal, tax it, try to make it as safe as possible, and let people make their own decisions and be responsible for their own lives.

LordHelmchen
03-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Ive always loved you avy. Is it anyone in particular?


It's the girl I dated for about 10 years.. we split up about 2 years ago. Still living together though.. it's complex, don't ask ;D

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 01:07 PM
What about those who don't think either immoral?
Should others morality be forced on everyone?

Much better to have a choice.....and tax the consumption.

The way I see it is....it's either right or it's wrong, and I think everyone knows that both are wrong.

Both can destroy families.

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 01:09 PM
Of course it should be legal. In general, I support legalizing "victimless crimes". People are free to make their own decisions. Sex is legal if free, if someone is so good at it that people will willingly pay for the service then so be it. I would like to see it regulated, maybe there is a licensing process to make sure that the prostitutes are clean. Have some kind of certification. If the prostitute doesn't have that certification then you are taking a risk, but it should still be legal.

So many people "prostitute" themselves as is. Many people are in relationships because their partner has money or power or other trivial things. A lot of people have sex with someone they do not love. It's not a big deal, and if you are morally against the practice then don't engage in it yourself. I have the same stance on drugs, as others have mentioned. Make it legal, tax it, try to make it as safe as possible, and let people make their own decisions and be responsible for their own lives.

Drugs and prostitution are not "victimless crimes".

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 01:10 PM
What about those who don't think either immoral?
Should others morality be forced on everyone?

Much better to have a choice.....and tax the consumption.


Yep! i was going to say the same thing.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 01:12 PM
Drugs and prostitution are not "victimless crimes".

You may have a point about the drugs but whos the victim where a guy want's a piece of tail?

Fedaykin
03-28-2009, 01:16 PM
For me, it's much like the legalizing weed conversation. I wouldn't be using it, but I'd still prefer to see it legal. I don't have any figures, but I imagine we must waste millions per year trying to stop it.

I sat on a jury for a prostitution trial and the judge told us after the trial that with everything factored in, the court cost something like 12K a day to run. (Not sure how he got those figures, but that's what he said.) So, we spent three days trying to decide the fate of some girl who allegedly did a little extra "hand work" during a massage. We found her not guilty due to insufficient evidence and the judge said that happens all the time.

Should have found her not guilty regardless of whether there is evidence. Jury nullification is the ultimate check and balance.

No victim = no crime regardless of what the law says.

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 01:17 PM
You may have a point about the drugs but whos the victim where a guy want's a piece of tail?

I am more against drugs than I am prostitution, but if the guy has a wife and kids he has no business messing around with prostitutes.

Fedaykin
03-28-2009, 01:19 PM
As I understand it, it already is a county issue. Technically, prostitution isn't a federal offense, it's just that the vast majority of counties in the US makes it illegal.

If only "attracts a shady crowd" because it's illegal.

Fedaykin
03-28-2009, 01:21 PM
If there was a way to not let it be a public health issue, I'd be for legalizing it.

Where's the public health issue? Prostitutes are far less likely to engage in unprotected/unsafe sex than your average "non pro". Plus, prostitutes that work legally generally have frequent STD tests, for obvious reasons.

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 01:22 PM
It's the girl I dated for about 10 years.. we split up about 2 years ago. Still living together though.. it's complex, don't ask ;D

Sooooooo, she's available then huh?:pimp:

2KBack
03-28-2009, 01:24 PM
I am more against drugs than I am prostitution, but if the guy has a wife and kids he has no business messing around with prostitutes.

that's the fault of the individual, not the business. It's called personal responsibility, a concept that is increasingly difficult to find.

BTW- who decides what is moral?

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 01:27 PM
You may have a point about the drugs but whos the victim where a guy want's a piece of tail?

How about the family that is now wrecked physically and emotionally if the man/woman is married with kids? Is that family not a victim now? What about if she is tested once a month for STDs, but in between testing, she catches an STD then passes it on to someone before she is tested again. Is this man not a victim now?

There are arguments to go both ways. But if it was going to be legal, then I would like to see it ran like the Bunny Ranch.:)

broncofan7
03-28-2009, 01:27 PM
Each major city should be free to choose if they want to set up there own 'Red Light ' district IMHO. Most major cities have areas of their town which look like a third world country (see the Detroit thread from a few weeks ago)--Re-zone a few blocks and watch it blossom into an economic boom.

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 01:27 PM
bob needs to lose his virginity some way, so i say legalize it

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 01:29 PM
I am more against drugs than I am prostitution, but if the guy has a wife and kids he has no business messing around with prostitutes.


It depends on the situaition i have read artical about couples where the guy wanted it way more that the wife wanted and she ok'd his hooker visits to keep him happy also you have the situation where the wife loses interest in sex leaving the man with very little options. I agree a married man has no business doing hookers if hes getting the same at home but their are reasons to seek a hookers services. ( they do serve a purpose)

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 01:31 PM
Here's a thought. Have things really become that bad when we start talking about legalizing things already illegal for the purpose of having the government tax it to generate more money for them to spend? I mean with all the crap that is taxed today, and the governement still can't figure out how to not overspend, why should we just add more money for them to use however they please?

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 01:31 PM
that's the fault of the individual, not the business. It's called personal responsibility, a concept that is increasingly difficult to find.

BTW- who decides what is moral?

Prostitution doesn't need to be legalized it will cause more harm than good.

I don't think anyone here actually believes that prostitution isn't immoral. I'm sure their parents taught them the difference between right and wrong.

2KBack
03-28-2009, 01:32 PM
How about the family that is now wrecked physically and emotionally if the man/woman is married with kids? Is that family not a victim now? What about if she is tested once a month for STDs, but in between testing, she catches an STD then passes it on to someone before she is tested again. Is this man not a victim now?

There are arguments to go both ways. But if it was going to be legal, then I would like to see it ran like the Bunny Ranch.:)

The question isn't if you can find victims, it is who is doing the victimizing. going to a prostitute is a choice, when that choice is made it becomes the fault of the individual not the prostitution.

As for bunny tanch type prositution. It should all be regulated like that, licenses should be given and businesses should be required to maintain certain safety and health standards.

his is another example of something that is happening no matter it;s legal standing (worlds oldest profession) the difference legalization makes is that it makes it safer (for escorts and clients).

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 01:33 PM
bob needs to lose his virginity some way, so i say legalize it

That would require him getting off his ass and geting a job so he can pay for said services. As it stands right now, he couldn't afford a one night stand with a cat.

Northman
03-28-2009, 01:34 PM
It's the girl I dated for about 10 years.. we split up about 2 years ago. Still living together though.. it's complex, don't ask ;D

:rofl: :thumbsup:

2KBack
03-28-2009, 01:35 PM
Prostitution doesn't need to be legalized it will cause more harm than good.

I don't think anyone here actually believes that prostitution isn't immoral. I'm sure their parents taught them the difference between right and wrong.

I ask you again, who decides what is immoral?

I don't find it immoral any any sense of the word. Am I going to hell? Am I some sort of moral criminal?

Tell me how is is wrong? Tell me what makes it "Wrong"

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 01:36 PM
Here's a thought. Have things really become that bad when we start talking about legalizing things already illegal for the purpose of having the government tax it to generate more money for them to spend? I mean with all the crap that is taxed today, and the governement still can't figure out how to not overspend, why should we just add more money for them to use however they please?


The money saved on cops having to waste time dealing with it could be huge and help them direct their efforts to more pressing crimes.

Fedaykin
03-28-2009, 01:41 PM
How about the family that is now wrecked physically and emotionally if the man/woman is married with kids? Is that family not a victim now?

No, they are not victims of prostitution.


What about if she is tested once a month for STDs, but in between testing, she catches an STD then passes it on to someone before she is tested again. Is this man not a victim now?


Not if the risks are appropriately disclosed, no. Nothing you do is without risk. By your same logic above, most daily activities should be illegal (driving, eating, sports, crossing the street, etc.).

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 01:41 PM
It depends on the situaition i have read artical about couples where the guy wanted it way more that the wife wanted and she ok'd his hooker visits to keep him happy also you have the situation where the wife loses interest in sex leaving the man with very little options. I agree a married man has no business doing hookers if hes getting the same at home but their are reasons to seek a hookers services. ( they do serve a purpose)

That's good they could work that out and all, but that kind of mutual agreement isn't all that common. I just think prostitution does more harm than good, and I wouldn't want whore houses springing up where I live.

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 01:44 PM
The money saved on cops having to waste time dealing with it could be huge and help them direct their efforts to more pressing crimes.

Eh... I think the police department actually makes money from the fines they dish out when you get caught.

Fedaykin
03-28-2009, 01:45 PM
I don't think anyone here actually believes that prostitution isn't immoral. I'm sure their parents taught them the difference between right and wrong.

If sex is legal, and selling services is legal, why should selling sex services be illegal?

On a somewhat unrelated note, how old are you?

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 01:50 PM
That would require him getting off his ass and geting a job so he can pay for said services. As it stands right now, he couldn't afford a one night stand with a cat.

maybe he can borrow from his mom. he can tell her it is for a new star wars toy.

tsiguy96
03-28-2009, 01:52 PM
That's good they could work that out and all, but that kind of mutual agreement isn't all that common. I just think prostitution does more harm than good, and I wouldn't want whore houses springing up where I live.

again, its not up to the govt to decide if something like this causes harm to individual families. they (should) have a very limited role, deciding what is morally right for everyone is not one of them.

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 01:52 PM
I ask you again, who decides what is immoral?

I don't find it immoral any any sense of the word. Am I going to hell? Am I some sort of moral criminal?

Tell me how is is wrong? Tell me what makes it "Wrong"
It just is.

You can choose to believe what you want to believe but that doesn't make you right. It is immoral whether you want to believe it or not.

Having to pay someone to have sex with you is just sad. I'm sure the chick really loooooovvves having sex with total strangers everyday. Yes I know they choose to, but they are only doing it because their life is a total mess.

tsiguy96
03-28-2009, 01:53 PM
It just is.

You can choose to believe what you want to believe but that doesn't make you right. It is immoral whether you want to believe it or not.

Having to pay someone to have sex with you is just sad. I'm sure the chick really loooooovvves having sex with total strangers everyday. Yes I know they choose to, but they are only doing it because their life is a total mess.

"it just is" immoral because you say so? what if i say its not immoral, does that make me right? morality and values are a personal thing, not a universal one.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 01:54 PM
Eh... I think the police department actually makes money from the fines they dish out when you get caught.


So they should keep wasting valuable time which could be spent solving or addressing real crimes just so they can have the fine revenue? i would think the money spent on man power to chase guys around just trying to get laid far out weighs the fine revenue that probably just pays for the overtime wasted chasing around guys trying to get laid. :rofl:

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 01:54 PM
honestly when you truly think about it, every relationship is basically a form of prostitution. when you start dating a woman, you have to buy the flowers, dinner, dates, candy, all that crap, and all that is really for is to get laid.

at clubs or bars, you end up buying expensive as hell drinks for ladies in hopes of getting laid.

only difference in these scenarios and prostitution is, it isn't for sure all your cash spent is going to get you laid at the end of the night in the legal situation, but it is for sure in the illegal situation.

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 01:55 PM
If sex is legal, and selling services is legal, why should selling sex services be illegal?

On a somewhat unrelated note, how old are you?
I'm 22 and they already sell sex services it's called porn.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 01:58 PM
I'm 22 and they already sell sex services it's called porn.


Porn isn't the real thing ( huge difference son) HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 01:59 PM
again, its not up to the govt to decide if something like this causes harm to individual families. they (should) have a very limited role, deciding what is morally right for everyone is not one of them.

i agree. i mean look at Nevada it is legal. the majority of the protitutes there are screened for disease monthly by the whore house they work at and it is safe. if it is in a scenario like that where it is regulated and safe, i don't see any reason why it shouldn't be legal

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 02:00 PM
So they should keep wasting valuable time which could be spent solving or addressing real crimes just so they can have the fine revenue? i would think the money spent on man power to chase guys around just trying to get laid far out weighs the fine revenue that probably just pays for the overtime wasted chasing around guys trying to get laid. :rofl:

They aren't trying to bust people day and night for prostitution. Most people get busted by cops who are just out patrolling all day looking to find people that are speeding, drinking and driving, selling drugs, and responding to calls. I'm sure it's not that high on their priority list in most places.

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 02:00 PM
I'm 22 and they already sell sex services it's called porn.

dude there is a major difference between the real thing and watching a DVD

2KBack
03-28-2009, 02:01 PM
It just is.

You can choose to believe what you want to believe but that doesn't make you right. It is immoral whether you want to believe it or not.

Having to pay someone to have sex with you is just sad. I'm sure the chick really loooooovvves having sex with total strangers everyday. Yes I know they choose to, but they are only doing it because their life is a total mess.

Dude, you're ignorance is showing.

It isn't immoral, you can choose to believe what you want to believe but that doesn't make you right. It isn't immoral whether you want to belive ir or not.

not the best argument is it?

So not only are you juding me for not finding it immoral, you are a judging any lonely guy that is willing to pay to have a companion for an evening, and you are judging the life choices (and the life quality) of women that have chosen that career path.

You know what I DO find immoral?

Holier than thou punks that pass judgment on others with no perspective.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 02:02 PM
They aren't trying to bust people day and night for prostitution. Most people get busted by cops are just out patrolling all day looking to find people that are speeding, drinking and driving, selling drugs, and responding to calls. I'm sure it's not that high on their priority list in most places.


Yes they do they have stings all the time i have one question ( do you go the church?)

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Porn isn't the real thing ( huge difference son) HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.

I'm not BOB. I do get laid. ROFL!

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 02:04 PM
I'm not BOB. I do get laid. ROFL!


So the porn comment wasn't the best rebuttal huh. :~ohyah!:

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 02:05 PM
It just is.

You can choose to believe what you want to believe but that doesn't make you right. It is immoral whether you want to believe it or not.

Having to pay someone to have sex with you is just sad. I'm sure the chick really loooooovvves having sex with total strangers everyday. Yes I know they choose to, but they are only doing it because their life is a total mess.

dude, you pay regular women you date to have sex with them. it isn't the same exact scenario of giving them a certain amount of cash to have sex. but with dates, flowers, candy, all the crap that goes into actually taking a girl out with the hopes of getting laid is expensive, and doesn't always lead to sex.

men pay prostitutes for the sure thing. unlike with dates where you pay for a bunch of **** only to get nothing in return at the end of the night

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 02:06 PM
Yes they do they have stings all the time i have one question ( do you go the church?)

I don't go to church, but I do read the Bible.

They have stings very rarely, and only when they know they are going to bust a lot of people.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 02:10 PM
I don't go to church, but I do read the Bible.

They have stings very rarely, and only when they know they are going to bust a lot of people.


Do a goggle sometime and watch the news ( re: craigs list or escort services)ect ect ect ect.

http://www.google.com/search?q=prostitution+stings+per+state&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&start=10&sa=N

LordHelmchen
03-28-2009, 02:12 PM
Sooooooo, she's available then huh?:pimp:

technically yes :afro:

BMarsh615
03-28-2009, 02:19 PM
Do a goggle sometime and watch the news ( re: craigs list or escort services)ect ect ect ect.

http://www.google.com/search?q=prostitution+stings+per+state&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&start=10&sa=N

I know they have them, but I don't think most police stations do more than 2-3 stings a year.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 02:23 PM
This fine american boy could have used a hooker

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BABronco
03-28-2009, 02:41 PM
Government has no right what I can put in my body. Whether it be foods, drugs (albeit minor harmful ones), or telling some chick she can't take a cock for cash. This is America. Spose to be the land of the free. Currently we are the land of the taxed and slaved.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 02:47 PM
I know they have them, but I don't think most police stations do more than 2-3 stings a year.

Using your # 3 3x50 states = 150 stings x cost per sting lets say 200k ( guessing of course ( you do the math) 3 millions could do what else per year? battered wifes? getting kids off of drugs??? ect ect ect.

Guys are simply getting laided and each state per your # 3 are throwing 600k down the tubes that could be helping folks that really need it ( that is being moral IMO)

Kaylore
03-28-2009, 02:55 PM
There are only a few places where it's bad enough that legalizing it becomes practical and even necessary. In those instances controlling it makes sense. For the vast majority of America that isn't necessary. The hookers and pimps would rather it not be legalized anyway because then they have to pay taxes, register and be regulated.

Besides, if you're that desperate there's always craigslist. Even Bob found someone to "do" on there.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 03:01 PM
There are only a few places where it's bad enough that legalizing it becomes practical and even necessary. In those instances controlling it makes sense. For the vast majority of America that isn't necessary. The hookers and pimps would rather it not be legalized anyway because then they have to pay taxes, register and be regulated.

Besides, if you're that desperate there's always craigslist. Even Bob found someone to "do" on there.

Iam sure the places in vegas are doing just fine being taxed and regulated plus being legal would boost business 10 fold ( theres money to be made) alot of money on both sides.

Popps
03-28-2009, 03:02 PM
Besides, if you're that desperate there's always craigslist. Even Bob found someone to "do" on there.

So he says.

Kaylore
03-28-2009, 03:05 PM
Iam sure the places in vegas are doing just fine being taxed and regulated plus being legal would boost business 10 fold ( theres money to be made) alot of money on both sides.

There's more to life than making money.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 03:06 PM
There's more to life than making money.


Very true brother but that's not the topic at hand.

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 03:14 PM
No, they are not victims of prostitution.



Not if the risks are appropriately disclosed, no. Nothing you do is without risk. By your same logic above, most daily activities should be illegal (driving, eating, sports, crossing the street, etc.).

Who says they wouldn't be victims? Who has the right to say that for them? I bet if you ask a family that had something like that happen to them, they would tell you differently.


Also, your other examples are comparing apples to oranges.

oubronco
03-28-2009, 03:25 PM
If a guy wants to pay for a little azz then let him at it

not my cup of tea though

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 03:27 PM
I feel the same way. I'm in the middle on this debate, but I'm trying to make some arguments either way. It's a good discussion to have nonetheless.

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 03:33 PM
personally, i am not going to pay for booty, but i have no problem if a guy wants to.

it's his money, and if she is willing to give it up for his cash, so be it.

i don't find it wrong or right. it is one of those gray area things where each person has their own feelings with it

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 03:41 PM
Look, I'm married and I have to pay for sex all the time. Every time I want some, I normally have to take her out first. Every now and then I get lucky and get the I'm horny sex.:~ohyah!:

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 03:42 PM
personally, i am not going to pay for booty, but i have no problem if a guy wants to.

it's his money, and if she is willing to give it up for his cash, so be it.

i don't find it wrong or right. it is one of those gray area things where each person has their own feelings with it



Ditto i just think some folks are hung up on morals and personal opinion about what others do ( which is none of their business) IMO, if you don't use hookers then keep your opinion to yourself because it doesn't affect you either way.

Los Broncos
03-28-2009, 03:54 PM
No, I have a problem with the moral side of it and the spread of disease.

Los Broncos
03-28-2009, 03:55 PM
personally, i am not going to pay for booty, but i have no problem if a guy wants to.

it's his money, and if she is willing to give it up for his cash, so be it.

i don't find it wrong or right. it is one of those gray area things where each person has their own feelings with it

Same here, wont pay anything for it.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 03:57 PM
No, I have a problem with the moral side of it and the spread of disease.


You only have a problem spreading disease if it stays unregulated ( another life saving cost saving measure).

FireFly
03-28-2009, 04:03 PM
In Australia it already is leagal.

We don't have an R18+ classification for games, and World of Warcraft has been banned, but I could go down teh street right now and pay $20 for a blowjob :pimp:

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 04:05 PM
In Australia it already is leagal.

We don't have an R18+ classification for games, and World of Warcraft has been banned, but I could go down teh street right now and pay $20 for a blowjob :pimp:



Wow has been banned but you can get a blowjob down the street? Hilarious! everything is backwards down under huh.

frerottenextelway
03-28-2009, 04:06 PM
You know what should be made illegal, pro football. Every game I've been to people spend a good deal of money (that could go to their child's education!), fights often break out, security has to be upped on the tax payers dime, thousands of people are intoxicated and surely some of them are driving home. Really, it's quite a gathering spot for many of the lowlifes of the world that are a drain on the rest of society.

As a society we would clearly be better off without the NFL. You all with me?

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 04:07 PM
In Australia it already is leagal.

We don't have an R18+ classification for games, and World of Warcraft has been banned, but I could go down teh street right now and pay $20 for a blowjob :pimp:

Lets put another shrimp on the barbie.

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 04:07 PM
You know what should be made illegal, pro football. Every game I've been to people spend a good deal of money (that could go to their child's education!), fights often break out, security has to be upped on the tax payers dime, thousands of people are intoxicated and surely some of them are driving home. Really, it's quite a gathering spot for many of the lowlifes of the world that are a drain on the rest of society.

As a society we would clearly be better off without the NFL. You all with me?


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1523/cricket.gif

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 04:08 PM
As a society we would clearly be better off without the NFL. You all with me?

BAN HIM!!!!LOL

LordHelmchen
03-28-2009, 04:09 PM
Wow has been banned but you can get a blowjob down the street? Hilarious! everything is backwards down under huh.

if you think about it.. WoW certainly does more damage to the productivity of a society than getting a bj ;)

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 04:10 PM
if you think about it.. WoW certainly does more damage to the productivity of a society than getting a bj ;)


ROFL! point taken

Popps
03-28-2009, 04:13 PM
Look, as a parent... it's a horrifying prospect. It's very difficult to separate what you want for your children... and the reality of how things are, and how other people choose to live their lives.

I don't want my kids smoking dope, either. I'll do my best to ensure they don't, or they're at least intelligent adults when they make a decision on the matter. But, that's a separate issue from legality.

It's a tricky situation.

GreatBronco16
03-28-2009, 04:13 PM
if you think about it.. WoW certainly does more damage to the productivity of a society than getting a bj ;)

Well, to argue, I can get a disease in wow, and either have it cured by another player, or it will last no longer than 30 minutes. Try getting herpies from a BJ(if that is possible) and see what happens. ;D

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 04:14 PM
Well, to argue, I can get a disease in wow, and either have it cured by another player, or it will last no longer than 30 minutes. Try getting herpies form a BJ(if that is possible) and see what happens. ;D


Hilarious!

DenverBrit
03-28-2009, 04:28 PM
Well, to argue, I can get a disease in wow, and either have it cured by another player, or it will last no longer than 30 minutes. Try getting herpies from a BJ(if that is possible) and see what happens. ;D

Watch out for those cold sores. ;D

LordHelmchen
03-28-2009, 04:28 PM
:rofl:

but well, you can use protection if you get a bj... and at least you can't get infected by a zombie plague :)

DenverBrit
03-28-2009, 04:31 PM
Wow has been banned but you can get a blowjob down the street? Hilarious! everything is backwards down under huh.

I think OZ has its priorities in order. Ha!

TheDave
03-28-2009, 04:46 PM
65 - 9... bunch of degenerates around here. ;D

Bronx33
03-28-2009, 04:50 PM
65 - 9... bunch of degenerates around here. ;D

I blew a load reading that i hope ya know! unassisted.

Dedhed
03-28-2009, 05:02 PM
If there was a way to not let it be a public health issue, I'd be for legalizing it.

Is it currently a public health issue?

Dedhed
03-28-2009, 05:09 PM
The government should have nothing to do with anything that happens between consenting adults.

Regardless of the vice the government spends billions of dollars policing things that they will never even begin to control.

bombay
03-28-2009, 05:17 PM
Is it currently a public health issue?

To some degree. It would certainly be safer if it were regulated and the prostitutes were regularly tested for disease rather than surreptitious back alley bull**** as it is currently constituted.

Wait... surreptitious back alley bull****? What the hell am I talking about?

Dedhed
03-28-2009, 06:32 PM
To some degree. It would certainly be safer if it were regulated and the prostitutes were regularly tested for disease rather than surreptitious back alley bull**** as it is currently constituted.

Wait... surreptitious back alley bull****? What the hell am I talking about?

That's my point. My post was in response to a poster saying they would be for legalization if there was a way to keep it from becoming a health issue.

My point was that it already is a health issue, and legalizing it certainly wouldn't make it worse.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-28-2009, 06:36 PM
bob needs to lose his virginity some way, so i say legalize it

50 posts. You guys are slipping.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-28-2009, 06:37 PM
That would require him getting off his ass and geting a job so he can pay for said services. As it stands right now, he couldn't afford a one night stand with a cat.

Dude, I could have banged a hooker a long time ago. A long time ago. I have more pride than that.

BroncoMan4ever
03-28-2009, 06:48 PM
50 posts. You guys are slipping.

i would have gotten around to it sooner Bob, but i was busy with my flesh and blood girlfriend

Malcontent
03-28-2009, 07:25 PM
If we legalize Prostitution, Drugs, etc...then the world will look like Biff Tannen's world in BTF2!! There will be no Marty to save you...Muaahhahahah!

oubronco
03-28-2009, 07:32 PM
Look, as a parent... it's a horrifying prospect. It's very difficult to separate what you want for your children... and the reality of how things are, and how other people choose to live their lives.

I don't want my kids smoking dope, either. I'll do my best to ensure they don't, or they're at least intelligent adults when they make a decision on the matter. But, that's a separate issue from legality.

It's a tricky situation.

I hear that I damn sure don't want to see my kids on skidrow either

Spider
03-28-2009, 07:36 PM
we can put a little counter on her coochie , the one that gets the most jabs wins ..... Like in boxing , only naked

Natedog24
03-28-2009, 07:48 PM
Weed dealing prostitutes?

Tax that and you have fixed the economy

ROFL!

dEADmANwALKING
03-28-2009, 08:00 PM
The only game I ever went to in Denver was in 1983,and in the Military we had to have orientation before we were allowed outside the base,and the main warning was the Hookers on Colfax Street,anyway Colfax Street was very educating..most of the hookers looked like guys,SO I'M NOT! AND NEVER WILL BE FOR THE LEAGALIZATION OF HOOKERS THAT LOOK LIKE GUYS PERIOD!

Just say NO! to ugly Hookers who look like guys or listen to the Kinks song Lola!

Malcontent
03-28-2009, 08:02 PM
The only game I ever went to in Denver was in 1983,and in the Military we had to have orientation before we were allowed outside the base,and the main warning was the Hookers on Colfax Street,anyway Colfax Street was very educating..most of the hookers looked like guys,SO I'M NOT! AND NEVER WILL BE FOR THE LEAGALIZATION OF HOOKERS THAT LOOK LIKE GUYS PERIOD!

Just say NO! to ugly Hookers who look like guys or listen to the Kinks song Lola!

Post of the Day!:thanku:

dEADmANwALKING
03-28-2009, 08:04 PM
Dude, I could have banged a hooker a long time ago. A long time ago. I have more pride than that.

Dude! your Mother was a hooker!..I found your a** hiding in a hooker thread...Classic!

FireFly
03-28-2009, 09:29 PM
Lets put another shrimp on the barbie.

What I've always found odd about this expression, is that we call them prawns.

SouthStndJunkie
03-28-2009, 09:35 PM
Dude, I could have banged a hooker a long time ago. A long time ago. I have more pride than that.

You should have.

F pride....you need to get off the schneid.

Don't put the pussy on a pedestal.

Once you get your feet wet, it gets easier from there....does not really matter how you get broken in.

epicSocialism4tw
03-28-2009, 10:28 PM
A practice that exploits the misfortunes of others (especially in such a gutteral, uncivilized institution as prostitution) should be kept in check by any civilized country.

The Big E
03-28-2009, 10:29 PM
If it's legal to do it for free, why should it be illegal to pay for it?

JCMElway
03-28-2009, 10:34 PM
Weed dealing prostitutes?

One stop shopping! Could they wax your car as well?








No, I mean actually wax your car! Sickos.

Bronco Bob
03-29-2009, 06:59 AM
I'm 22 and they already sell sex services it's called porn.

At one time the police spent a lot of time and effort busting pornographers.
Now for most people, even people that don't look at it, porn is no big
deal and almost no one thinks we should go back to making porn illegal.
It's interesting. It's legal to get paid for having sex if someone else has
a camera rolling. But in a private motel room with no one looking
it is illegal to get paid to have sex.

Bronco Bob
03-29-2009, 07:02 AM
What I've always found odd about this expression, is that we call them prawns.

That's because the commercial was made for Americans and most Americans have no idea what a prawn is.

Meck77
03-29-2009, 07:11 AM
Isn't Obama all about creating jobs?

baja
03-29-2009, 07:40 AM
why waste time on it. Legalize it

it goes on in every town

It is legalized it's called marriage

j/k

orinjkrush
03-29-2009, 09:50 AM
aren't both ho's and weed legal in Holland? or is it Belgium?
Anyhow, how's that working out for them?
Anybody ever flown over there to hooka up?

How 'bout a flapjack and a schmoke, fahzhur?

Dedhed
03-29-2009, 09:54 AM
A practice that exploits the misfortunes of others (especially in such a gutteral, uncivilized institution as prostitution) should be kept in check by any civilized country.

Are you trying to imply that it's kept in check currently?

Fan In Exile
03-29-2009, 09:56 AM
Prostitution is not a victimless crime, anyone who tries to tell you that is either selling something or just plain ignorant. The problem is that women in general don't want to be hookers. So men find ways to coerce them into it.

That form of coercion only gets worse when you legalize prostitution because there are more chances for people to make money off the bodies of women. The experience of those countries that have legalized it should warn us away from doing the very same thing.

Check out this link for more info: http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvlegal.htm

Basicly what it comes down to is that there are really three reasons that women turn to prostitution.

1) The bigges worldwide is that they are forced into it. Men and women both force women to sell their bodies so that they can make money off of it.

2) The next biggest is that economic conditions force them into it. I don't believe this is anymore right than letting people work in sweatshops because of economic conditions. There is still a lot of work to be done there as well though.

3) A very small minority because they enjoy sex. This minority is made even smaller when you realize that a lot of them have suffered some form of abuse and might not feel the same way if they were given adequate counseling.

bronco militia
03-29-2009, 10:21 AM
you guys are crazy...the worlds oldest profession regulated by government

**** that noise

Archer81
03-29-2009, 10:22 AM
I'm gonna go with no.


:Broncos:

Archer81
03-29-2009, 10:23 AM
You should have.

F pride....you need to get off the schneid.

Don't put the p***Y on a pedestal.

Once you get your feet wet, it gets easier from there....does not really matter how you get broken in.



**** man, your right...its Pussylliah...


:Broncos:

Popps
03-29-2009, 10:37 AM
Prostitution is not a victimless crime, anyone who tries to tell you that is either selling something or just plain ignorant. The problem is that women in general don't want to be hookers. So men find ways to coerce them into it.

That form of coercion only gets worse when you legalize prostitution because there are more chances for people to make money off the bodies of women. The experience of those countries that have legalized it should warn us away from doing the very same thing.

Check out this link for more info: http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvlegal.htm

Basicly what it comes down to is that there are really three reasons that women turn to prostitution.

1) The bigges worldwide is that they are forced into it. Men and women both force women to sell their bodies so that they can make money off of it.

2) The next biggest is that economic conditions force them into it. I don't believe this is anymore right than letting people work in sweatshops because of economic conditions. There is still a lot of work to be done there as well though.

3) A very small minority because they enjoy sex. This minority is made even smaller when you realize that a lot of them have suffered some form of abuse and might not feel the same way if they were given adequate counseling.



I'm not disagreeing with all of this. In fact, I'd agree with most of it.

Still, the question isn't really whether or not it's a net positive for women, the question is... does keeping it illegal create an even more dangerous situation for those who ARE involved, while also requiring us to expend major financial and human resources in efforts to stop it.

Instead of just dragging women off the streets and throwing them in jail, what if the resources was put into counseling towards prevention, alternative job training, etc?

Again, it's a tough question.... but right now, it seems we're just forcing these women (and men) into more dangerous situations with our model of "enforcement" on the issue.

Fedaykin
03-29-2009, 10:55 AM
A practice that exploits the misfortunes of others (especially in such a gutteral, uncivilized institution as prostitution) should be kept in check by any civilized country.

Where's the exploitation if the woman is willing and is payed decently for her services? How is it more of a problem than hiring a person to work any other labor?

LordHelmchen
03-29-2009, 10:57 AM
The way I see it, it's a bad situation for most involved anyway.. but when you keep it illegal, it makes the women not only victims, but also criminals. Making it tougher for them to get out of it, if they wish to do so.

Fan In Exile
03-29-2009, 11:31 AM
I'm not disagreeing with all of this. In fact, I'd agree with most of it.

Still, the question isn't really whether or not it's a net positive for women, the question is... does keeping it illegal create an even more dangerous situation for those who ARE involved, while also requiring us to expend major financial and human resources in efforts to stop it.

Instead of just dragging women off the streets and throwing them in jail, what if the resources was put into counseling towards prevention, alternative job training, etc?

Again, it's a tough question.... but right now, it seems we're just forcing these women (and men) into more dangerous situations with our model of "enforcement" on the issue.

It's not really a tough question. If you'll look at the link we have evidence from the countries that have legalized prostitution and we see that the net effect is negative.

Also the solution that the article suggests and that I'm mostly in favor of is the prosecution of those people exploiting the women and the men that make it profitable.

LordHelmchen
03-29-2009, 11:35 AM
evidence?
"In the Netherlands, where two-thirds of the women in prostitution are immigrants and one-half of them are trafficked illegal immigrants, legalization has, in fact, increased prostitution and trafficking."

that is all he evidence you have? please....

Popps
03-29-2009, 12:36 PM
It's not really a tough question. If you'll look at the link we have evidence from the countries that have legalized prostitution and we see that the net effect is negative.

Also the solution that the article suggests and that I'm mostly in favor of is the prosecution of those people exploiting the women and the men that make it profitable.

No... it IS a tough question.

First off, only a sliver of the world's prostitution is done in a legal, controlled manner. So, most of the net-negative effects you're drawing upon (which I do believe) are not from a regulated model. Human trafficking is not what we're talking about, here.

Second, to simply say that because a couple of small places around the globe tried it with mixed results-hence it wouldn't work here isn't really a fair assessment. Our country is much larger and more complex than the Netherlands, for example.

Beyond that, the concept would be to CREATE a model in which those who choose to engage have a safer, more regulated avenue than the dangerous, even deadly models in place in the U.S. right now. (And I am just talking about the U.S., and I probably should have said that in the opening title.)

If your primary stance is that men are exploiting women, why not create a model that evens the playing field? Your concept also doesn't account for males engaged in prostitution in the U.S..

Again, in its current form... prostitution is dangerous and potentially deadly, not to mention criminal. We've been addressing it the same way since the dawn of this country with very little results. Again, our courts are flooded with these small-time prostitution cases every day. It's a drain on our government and people, and has done nothing to wipe out the issue.

At a certain point, when something doesn't work for a long enough time, you have to try something else. Simply re-stating that some women are exploited and that we should punish people hasn't gotten it done.

The current state of prostitution in America is more dangerous to women (and men) than regulated models might be. But, we'll never know if we refuse to address a complex problem with anything more than an outdated, elementary approach.

Popps
03-29-2009, 12:39 PM
The way I see it, it's a bad situation for most involved anyway.. but when you keep it illegal, it makes the women not only victims, but also criminals. Making it tougher for them to get out of it, if they wish to do so.

CNBC does some great specials. I recently put up a thread commending the "House of Cards" special they did. They also did one on high end prostitution.
(And prostitution in general, in America.)

Watch it if you get a chance. You definitely come away with an idea of how complex this issue is, and how many of these women working as escorts (etc.) are intelligent businesswomen. Yes, there are also drug addicts on the streets turning tricks, but that's also a separate issue.

Your points are valid, imo. You can't just wish something away.

Fan In Exile
03-29-2009, 02:28 PM
evidence?
"In the Netherlands, where two-thirds of the women in prostitution are immigrants and one-half of them are trafficked illegal immigrants, legalization has, in fact, increased prostitution and trafficking."

that is all he evidence you have? please....

The numbers of people being trafficked sex went up, legalizing it made it worse. What evidence exactly did you want?

Fan In Exile
03-29-2009, 02:31 PM
No... it IS a tough question.

First off, only a sliver of the world's prostitution is done in a legal, controlled manner. So, most of the net-negative effects you're drawing upon (which I do believe) are not from a regulated model. Human trafficking is not what we're talking about, here.

Second, to simply say that because a couple of small places around the globe tried it with mixed results-hence it wouldn't work here isn't really a fair assessment. Our country is much larger and more complex than the Netherlands, for example.

Beyond that, the concept would be to CREATE a model in which those who choose to engage have a safer, more regulated avenue than the dangerous, even deadly models in place in the U.S. right now. (And I am just talking about the U.S., and I probably should have said that in the opening title.)

If your primary stance is that men are exploiting women, why not create a model that evens the playing field? Your concept also doesn't account for males engaged in prostitution in the U.S..

Again, in its current form... prostitution is dangerous and potentially deadly, not to mention criminal. We've been addressing it the same way since the dawn of this country with very little results. Again, our courts are flooded with these small-time prostitution cases every day. It's a drain on our government and people, and has done nothing to wipe out the issue.

At a certain point, when something doesn't work for a long enough time, you have to try something else. Simply re-stating that some women are exploited and that we should punish people hasn't gotten it done.

The current state of prostitution in America is more dangerous to women (and men) than regulated models might be. But, we'll never know if we refuse to address a complex problem with anything more than an outdated, elementary approach.

This is where you're wrong. As the article I pointed out was very clear about legalizing increases the opportunity for people to make money without increasing the number of willing workers so that leads to more women being forced into prostitution.

enjolras
03-29-2009, 03:09 PM
This is where you're wrong. As the article I pointed out was very clear about legalizing increases the opportunity for people to make money without increasing the number of willing workers so that leads to more women being forced into prostitution.

So what is the crime? Is it prostitution or is it forcing women into prostitution? I would argue the latter, so that should be the thing that is illegal.

orinjkrush
03-29-2009, 03:17 PM
stop thinking about prostitution as women only.

start your policy making based on male prostitution.

LordHelmchen
03-29-2009, 04:06 PM
The numbers of people being trafficked sex went up, legalizing it made it worse. What evidence exactly did you want?


Real evidence.. all you provide is an article from someone with an agenda. No stats, no links to documents or sources that prove the point. Just a little sentence that says the numbers went up.

Fan In Exile
03-29-2009, 04:33 PM
Real evidence.. all you provide is an article from someone with an agenda. No stats, no links to documents or sources that prove the point. Just a little sentence that says the numbers went up.

If you looked at the website there was plenty of that. The only reason you're saying that she's got an agenda is because she disagrees with what you think. She's perfectly qualified to just make statements based on her studies. You'll also notice that the evidence I've presented is more than you've done. So until you actually present something I'll consider it case closed.

Popps
03-29-2009, 05:07 PM
This is where you're wrong. As the article I pointed out was very clear about legalizing increases the opportunity for people to make money without increasing the number of willing workers so that leads to more women being forced into prostitution.

No, I'm not wrong. You're just not following a very clear line of reasoning, instead choosing to restate your original position.

I'd also suggest you expand your horizons beyond a single article.

Here's the opening paragraph of your article..

Prostitution is consuming thousands of girls and women and reaping enormous profits for organized crime in post-communist countries. In addition, each year, several hundred thousand women are trafficked from Eastern European countries for prostitution in sex industry centers all over the world. The practices are extremely oppressive and incompatible with universal standards of human rights. The sex trade is a form of contemporary slavery and all indications predict its growth and expansion into the 21st century.

O.K.?

We're not talking about post-communist countries. We're not talking about trafficking. We're not talking about slavery.

Do you understand the difference between a high end escort in Manhattan as compared to a sex slave in a third world country?

You're comparing free-will to slavery. Your entire thesis for disagreeing is one of comparing apples to oranges.

More...

Women's bodies and emotions must belong to them alone. They must not be traded or sold. .

What about men? No one is talking about being "traded" or "sold." Again, you're quoting an article that's talking about something entirely different.

f a state permits prostitution to flourish, a certain portion of each generation of young women will be lost. Prostitution causes extreme harm to the body and the mind. Women who survive the beatings, rapes, sexually transmitted diseases, drugs, alcohol, and emotional abuse, emerge from prostitution ill, traumatized, and often, as poor as when they entered.

Again, no one is condoning beating or rapes. In fact, keeping prostitution in the back-streets of America ensures that these women will continue to face these dangers.

As for the mental effects, again... compare apples to apples. Third world sex slaves are a different thing than someone choosing to engage in commerce on their own free will as an adult. (Man or woman.)

So, you've quoted one, highly irrelevant article based on the opinion of a pronounced feminist. You'll find a large number of women and men out there who feel that it is indeed THEIR choice to do with their bodies as they see fit.

Again, do I think it's healthy in the long-run? Probably not. Do I want my children engaged? Of course not. But, that's not the issue. People ARE going to be engaged in this behavior, and your approach forces women/men to endure abuse and risk disease and other dangers.

The internet is a big place. I suggest reading more than one person's opinion piece as your entire basis for your own opinion.




http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/02/politics/uwire/main4642991.shtml

"Like it or not, prostitution is a business and efforts to make it harder for the business to exist will only create harsher conditions for the women who work in it."

Fan In Exile
03-29-2009, 05:47 PM
No, I'm not wrong. You're just not following a very clear line of reasoning, instead choosing to restate your original position.

I'd also suggest you expand your horizons beyond a single article.

Here's the opening paragraph of your article..

Prostitution is consuming thousands of girls and women and reaping enormous profits for organized crime in post-communist countries. In addition, each year, several hundred thousand women are trafficked from Eastern European countries for prostitution in sex industry centers all over the world. The practices are extremely oppressive and incompatible with universal standards of human rights. The sex trade is a form of contemporary slavery and all indications predict its growth and expansion into the 21st century.

O.K.?

We're not talking about post-communist countries. We're not talking about trafficking. We're not talking about slavery.

Do you understand the difference between a high end escort in Manhattan as compared to a sex slave in a third world country?

You're comparing free-will to slavery. Your entire thesis for disagreeing is one of comparing apples to oranges.

More...

Women's bodies and emotions must belong to them alone. They must not be traded or sold. .

What about men? No one is talking about being "traded" or "sold." Again, you're quoting an article that's talking about something entirely different.

f a state permits prostitution to flourish, a certain portion of each generation of young women will be lost. Prostitution causes extreme harm to the body and the mind. Women who survive the beatings, rapes, sexually transmitted diseases, drugs, alcohol, and emotional abuse, emerge from prostitution ill, traumatized, and often, as poor as when they entered.

Again, no one is condoning beating or rapes. In fact, keeping prostitution in the back-streets of America ensures that these women will continue to face these dangers.

As for the mental effects, again... compare apples to apples. Third world sex slaves are a different thing than someone choosing to engage in commerce on their own free will as an adult. (Man or woman.)

So, you've quoted one, highly irrelevant article based on the opinion of a pronounced feminist. You'll find a large number of women and men out there who feel that it is indeed THEIR choice to do with their bodies as they see fit.

Again, do I think it's healthy in the long-run? Probably not. Do I want my children engaged? Of course not. But, that's not the issue. People ARE going to be engaged in this behavior, and your approach forces women/men to endure abuse and risk disease and other dangers.

The internet is a big place. I suggest reading more than one person's opinion piece as your entire basis for your own opinion.




http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/02/politics/uwire/main4642991.shtml

"Like it or not, prostitution is a business and efforts to make it harder for the business to exist will only create harsher conditions for the women who work in it."

That's cute Popps. The thing about the internet is that you've got to double check who you're actually quoting. That's an article by a college student, perhaps you could find one by someone qualified.

I have read more about this so don't assume because I only quoted one article that that's all I've read.

Check out the rest of the site that I linked to and you'll see a bunch of articles that list the problems with legalizing prostitution.

The clear line of what actually happens when it's tolerated or legalized is that it increases the amount of human trafficking. Yes right now there are some people who have gotten into high end prostitution because of financial issues. If you'll read my first post or so you'll notice I addresses those.

The upshot is that it's a very small niche of people who do it because they want to, for the rest it's a brutal nightmare.

If however you want more links check these out.

http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/issues/prostitution_legalizing.html

http://www.beverlylahayeinstitute.org/articledisplay.asp?id=3466&department=BLI&categoryid=reports

http://www.nevadacoalition.org/factsheets/LegliznFactSheet091707c.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?ex=1363147200&en=f3ecbeab8ccaa4f7&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:zuQFpTLv9FYJ:www.lifechild.com/departments/legal/Harmscausedbylegalising.doc+problems+with+legalize d+prostitution&cd=17&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

That last one is a really good one.

Popps
03-29-2009, 11:54 PM
That's cute Popps. The thing about the internet is that you've got to double check who you're actually quoting. That's an article by a college student, perhaps you could find one by someone qualified..

You mean, like a feminist with a one-page website? I'll keep that in mind.

The article I quoted gave sources... and also was written by a female.


The clear line of what actually happens when it's tolerated or legalized is that it increases the amount of human trafficking. .

Again, you're jumping to slippery-slope conclusions without proof. The model in question has rarely been truly tried in a free society, and definitely not here. You won't have to traffic people, they'll either do it by free-will or they won't.

Pornography is legal. Do you see anyone being "trafficked" into porn?

Of course not. It's loosely regulated, but it has regulation... and the industry is becoming increasingly more self-aware regarding safety, etc.

If your hell-in-a-handbasket theory was correct, the U.S. porn industry would be responsible for mass human slave trade. But, it's not. It's a bunch of girls living out in the valley.

New Zealand legalized prostitution in 2003. From their own government's report in 2008:


The PRA has been in force for five years. During that time, the sex industry has not increased in size, and many of the social evils predicted by some who opposed the decriminalisation of the sex industry have not been experienced. On the whole, the PRA has been effective in achieving its purpose, and the Committee is confident that the vast majority of people involved in the sex industry are better off under the PRA than they were previously.

However, progress in some areas has been slower that may have been hoped. Many sex workers are still vulnerable to exploitative employment conditions, and there are still reports of sex workers being forced to take clients against their will. Nevertheless, it is encouraging to note that most sex workers contacted during the research for this report were aware of their right to say ‘no’, and that some brothel operators’ behaviour in this respect has improved since the enactment of the PRA.

It is a truism that traditions and attitudes developed over many years cannot be changed overnight. The Committee acknowledges that there remains disapproval and dislike directed by some people at people who work in the sex industry and mistrust and suspicion directed at the authorities by some people in the sex industry. In this atmosphere, the Committee believes that a period of relationship building will be necessary before the rights and responsibilities of those in the sex industry will be fully realised. People working in the sex industry, and those working in organisations that deal with the sex industry, need to make positive efforts to work together. The recommendations in this report reflect this view.

Sounds like some bad, more good... no increase in activity and none of the doom and gloom your theory purports would be in store.

Again, you can't just wag your finger and denounce something to make it go away. A couple hundred years of failed policy on the matter, and perhaps it's time to think a bit more progressively on ways to cope with an issue that simply is not ever going to go away.

Popps
03-29-2009, 11:58 PM
Real evidence.. all you provide is an article from someone with an agenda. No stats, no links to documents or sources that prove the point. Just a little sentence that says the numbers went up.

It doesn't exist.

In fact, look at crime rates in places where it's legal. There's no corresponding data showing an increase. In fact, some data suggests otherwise. (Netherlands, for example.)

Fan In Exile
03-30-2009, 06:46 AM
Popps you're clearly not reading any of the links that I've posted. Legalizing prostitution has been tried in a lot of places, Sweden, Australia, United Kingdom, Holland, Thailand, Taiwan, Greece, Germany, and South Africa. It has a long history of being tolerated in other places as well. The results from all of this were negative.

It's been tried, it failed, let's move on. So until you post any actual evidence of something good that's come out of legalizing it I'm done with this conversation because you're clearly to fixed on your own opinion to listen to what people who have actually studied it have to say.

As far as attacking my first link because she's a feminist, Donna M. Hughes has been an activist in the feminist anti-sexual violence and exploitation movement since the early-1980s. She holds the Eleanor M. and Oscar M. Carlson Endowed Chair in Women's Studies, and is the Director of Women's Studies at the University of Rhode Island, USA.

She's quite qualified to make an authoritative statement about the harms, as opposed to some college kid just spouting their opinion.

Needa Pass Rush
03-30-2009, 07:49 AM
Hansen: Sting raises question: Why not OK prostitution?

By MARC HANSEN
mahansen@dmreg.com Look for the lawyer and the former state agency head to reinvent themselves without much trouble.

The Iowa Falls pastor, on the other hand, is probably finished in the preaching business, even if the court lets him off. It's tough telling others how to get to heaven when you've been arrested in a prostitution sting.

I'm referring to the 13 men, ages 43 to 70, who were nabbed last month at a West Des Moines apartment complex.

People love these kinds of stories. It gives them a chance to be smug and outraged at the same time.
There's always a big shot or two looking strung out in the police photo, making the rest of us feel a little better about ourselves: "Yeah, I've done some regrettable things, but nothing that embarrassing. So far."

Some study the pastor's mug shot and see a hypocrite. Some see a flawed human, want to know why it's anybody else's business in the first place, and ask the big question.

Why in the world is prostitution still illegal?

How is a simple cash transaction between a man and a woman different from a dinner and a show?
People sell their souls all the time. Why not their bodies?

You can sleep your way around the world, using no protection, with a different partner every night, and that's fine. The moment a few dollars change hands, you're a criminal.

Before he died, George Carlin put it another way, and I paraphrase for obvious reasons: Sexual intercourse is legal. Selling is legal. Why isn't selling sexual intercourse legal?

Is it because prostitution is immoral? If so, theBargument doesn't work.
Immoral isn't the same as illegal. Shooting porn films might be immoral, but it isn't against the law. Sex outside marriage is considered sinful in almost every place of worship you can find, including the pastor's church.

Now turn it around. Profoundly moral acts are sometimes illegal. Think of Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, Gandhi and Nelson Mandela.

Is prostitution illegal because it's dangerous? Because it leads to infectious disease and violence and human trafficking and broken lives and early death?
I saw some research that says the life expectancy of a hooker is far below average. That's at least partly because so many are physically abused.

The average female prostitute, the study shows, gets into the business at age 14, sometimes through no choice of her own. These are lost, desperate kids who become lost, desperate adults with drug addictions to feed.

Then again, maybe prostitution is dangerous precisely because it's illegal. Tax it and regulate it and maybe the human toll dips. Maybe you eliminate the 14-year-old and her pimp and many of the health issues.
If you're going to make it legal, though, you'd better do your homework. Beware of unintended consequences.

When Australia went legal, the major cities became sex-industry boom towns, which overwhelmed regulators and attracted organized crime and all kinds of unanticipated problems.

Then there's Amsterdam and its famous red-light district. Prostitution has been legal in the Netherlands since 2000.

Everyone thought decriminalization would free the police to chase real criminals. And how's that working? Could be better.
A piece in the Economist last fall, "The Oldest Conundrum," says the Dutch are turning back the clocks, turning off the red lights, replacing tacky with glitz. And the citizens are cheering.

Consider Sweden, which has a novel approach. It's all right to sell sex but not buy it. In Sweden, the prostitute becomes a victim who can sue the customer.

In the first four years of the new policy, the number of streetwalkers was reportedly down 40 percent. Sweden and New Zealand seem to be the models for legalization.
The Internet, of course, changes the game completely. Now we have Craigslist, "the single largest source of prostitution in the country," according to a law enforcement official in Illinois. The Cook County sheriff is suing the company, trying to keep it from advertising "erotic services."

Craigslist brings something of an upside. It eliminates the need for pimps and streetwalking. But, according to the sheriff in Chicago, it creates more problems than it solves.
The question is easy. The answer is hard. You hear the cut-and-dried, black-and-white comments that surround the West Des Moines case.

This is why prostitution should be legalized. Period.

This is why it shouldn't. End of discussion.

Not really. Just the beginning.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090314/NEWS03/903140329&theme=HANSEN

Fan In Exile
03-30-2009, 08:45 AM
Well there you go then Marc Hansen of the Des Moines register says it's a complicated question. So let's just go ahead and throw out all of the studies and the analysis that people who have degrees in the area have done and go with what he says. I'm sure knowing the scholarship that's required of a daily newspaper that he rigorously researched all of the differing points of view before coming to this conclusion.

Needa Pass Rush
03-30-2009, 09:02 AM
Well there you go then Marc Hansen of the Des Moines register says it's a complicated question. So let's just go ahead and throw out all of the studies and the analysis that people who have degrees in the area have done and go with what he says. I'm sure knowing the scholarship that's required of a daily newspaper that he rigorously researched all of the differing points of view before coming to this conclusion.

The article provoked thought on all sides. Your sarcasm and whinning are duely noted.

rugbythug
03-30-2009, 09:09 AM
How one could take the most intimate of human contact trade it for money and come out better for it is a little nonsensical for me.

Popps
03-30-2009, 09:33 AM
So until you post any actual evidence of something good that's come out of legalizing it I'm done with this conversation .

I already did.... from a 6 year time-period by a country's own government who stated the results were more good than bad.

You simply keep restating your opinion and attempting to pass it off as fact.




As far as attacking my first link because she's a feminist, Donna M. Hughes has been an activist in the feminist anti-sexual violence and exploitation movement since the early-1980s. She holds the Eleanor M. and Oscar M. Carlson Endowed Chair in Women's Studies, and is the Director of Women's Studies at the University of Rhode Island, USA.

She's quite qualified to make an authoritative statement about the harms, as opposed to some college kid just spouting their opinion.


First off, her article reads like that of a college kid. Second, the article I posted used sources and was just one article. There are many out there.

But, it appears you prefer to keep women in the current, oppressive and abusive state of prostitution instead of trying to create a progressive system that might protect and educate them.

Popps
03-30-2009, 09:34 AM
Well there you go then Marc Hansen of the Des Moines register says it's a complicated question. So let's just go ahead and throw out all of the studies and the analysis that people who have degrees in the area have done and go with what he says. I'm sure knowing the scholarship that's required of a daily newspaper that he rigorously researched all of the differing points of view before coming to this conclusion.

No one is throwing anything out. You simply refuse to look at factual data put in front of you.

Meck77
03-30-2009, 09:37 AM
The dating process is basically legal prostitution anyway.

It's two willing people going out for dinner, a movie or whatever. Sometimes it results in sex. No government interference needed.

Dinner and a movie runs well over 50 bucks these days easy. Why not just cut to the chase? Ha!

Besides the problem as I see isn't prostitution. It's all the divorce and unwanted babies that people have and don't take care of. That cost is in the tens of billions to rest of us tax payers.

I guess it's just human nature to want to breed but I see more love and relationships that form with my herd of goats than stories I hear about people ****ing one night and then splitting up leaving a poor kid to fend for himself.

Popps
03-30-2009, 09:43 AM
How one could take the most intimate of human contact trade it for money and come out better for it is a little nonsensical for me.

Again, it's not so much that one "comes out better," it's what approach works and what doesn't.

What we're doing clearly doesn't work. It's failed miserably. Prostitution in its current American form does nothing more than force women into dangerous situations and wastes massive amounts of money and government resources.

Find ANY article on the net quoting women who work in the sex industry, and across the board.... almost all of them want it legalized and regulated. Why? Obviously, for their own protection and self-interest.

But, radical feminist and religious fanatics still control the playing field on this issue, so these women will still be contracting disease, being abused and forced to work their trade as criminals.

Again, I agree with you... it's not a good thing. But, we're making it an even worse thing with our flawed and failed policy of criminalization.

Fan In Exile
03-30-2009, 10:16 AM
I already did.... from a 6 year time-period by a country's own government who stated the results were more good than bad.

You simply keep restating your opinion and attempting to pass it off as fact.






First off, her article reads like that of a college kid. Second, the article I posted used sources and was just one article. There are many out there.

But, it appears you prefer to keep women in the current, oppressive and abusive state of prostitution instead of trying to create a progressive system that might protect and educate them.

Popps I've posted enough links that it's clearly not my opinion, by your responses you've clearly not read any of them.

I've also posted a link about what needs to be done to actually solve the problem such as effective social services and proper responoses when a child is sexually abused so saying that I want to keep things the way they are is pointless libel. You're clearly just trying to win some kind of internet argument instead of look into an issue.

Fan In Exile
03-30-2009, 10:21 AM
Again, it's not so much that one "comes out better," it's what approach works and what doesn't.

What we're doing clearly doesn't work. It's failed miserably. Prostitution in its current American form does nothing more than force women into dangerous situations and wastes massive amounts of money and government resources.

Find ANY article on the net quoting women who work in the sex industry, and across the board.... almost all of them want it legalized and regulated. Why? Obviously, for their own protection and self-interest.

But, radical feminist and religious fanatics still control the playing field on this issue, so these women will still be contracting disease, being abused and forced to work their trade as criminals.

Again, I agree with you... it's not a good thing. But, we're making it an even worse thing with our flawed and failed policy of criminalization.

The policies that work are decriminalizing it for the prostitute but keeping it illegal for the John's in addition to providing enhanced social services to address the underlying causes.

Beantown Bronco
03-30-2009, 10:21 AM
If the system in Holland was working so well, they wouldn't be going through the changes they currently are and have been going through for awhile now.

snowtrx
03-30-2009, 10:47 AM
Who has it easier, a drug dealer or a prostitute?

A prostitute. She can wash her crack then sell it again.

Popps
03-30-2009, 03:47 PM
Popps I've posted enough links that it's clearly not my opinion, by your responses you've clearly not read any of them.

I've also posted a link about what needs to be done to actually solve the problem such as effective social services and proper responoses when a child is sexually abused so saying that I want to keep things the way they are is pointless libel. You're clearly just trying to win some kind of internet argument instead of look into an issue.

I looked at your links and provided counter-examples.

I wasn't attempting to "win an internet argument" until you mistakenly attempted to correct those of us who called it a complicated issue. It is INDEED complicated and there is INDEED a wide variance of data that can lead people to varying conclusions. We've provided you with plenty.

It it were a simple issue, it would be solved. If it were a simple issue, we wouldn't have 85% of voters here in favor of legalization.

cutthemdown
03-30-2009, 04:05 PM
I looked at your links and provided counter-examples.

I wasn't attempting to "win an internet argument" until you mistakenly attempted to correct those of us who called it a complicated issue. It is INDEED complicated and there is INDEED a wide variance of data that can lead people to varying conclusions. We've provided you with plenty.

It it were a simple issue, it would be solved. If it were a simple issue, we wouldn't have 85% of voters here in favor of legalization.

The mane however probably isn't a great place to get a sampling of voters because the demographics probably slightly narrow

1- Mostly men ages 25-50
2- Football fans
3- Mostly Blue collar
4- People that post often probably a different personality type then those who don't. most of us opinionated, outgoing, stubborn.

The question becomes does a society have a right to base laws on moral grounds. I mean without morale based laws people would be able to marry whomever, and as many as they want. Not only gay marriage which I think most on here would support, but also having more then one wife or hubby.

Also no reason to not eat dogs and cats, or any animal for that matter. Also dog fighting probably no more cruel then hunting or fishing, it's our morality that says that is cruel. Obviously it takes place so some don't feel it is immoral. Where do we draw the line?

It's sort of a health and safety thing like drugs I suppose. Whats more unhealthy for society as a whole? Does the govt have an obligation to save us from ourselves? These are hard questions IMO because America really was built with a pretty strong moral foundation. It is part of our heritage as much as being free is.

Popps
03-30-2009, 04:48 PM
The mane however probably isn't a great place to get a sampling of voters because the demographics probably slightly narrow

1- Mostly men ages 25-50
2- Football fans
3- Mostly Blue collar
4- People that post often probably a different personality type then those who don't. most of us opinionated, outgoing, stubborn.
.

I thought of that and agree to an extent. That said, we also have a decent contingent of right-wing and Republican voters here on the Mane, and it appears even most of them are willing to look at the problem with a more progressive outlook.


The question becomes does a society have a right to base laws on moral grounds. I mean without morale based laws people would be able to marry whomever, and as many as they want. Not only gay marriage which I think most on here would support, but also having more then one wife or hubby.

Also no reason to not eat dogs and cats, or any animal for that matter. Also dog fighting probably no more cruel then hunting or fishing, it's our morality that says that is cruel. Obviously it takes place so some don't feel it is immoral. Where do we draw the line?

It's sort of a health and safety thing like drugs I suppose. Whats more unhealthy for society as a whole? Does the govt have an obligation to save us from ourselves? These are hard questions IMO because America really was built with a pretty strong moral foundation. It is part of our heritage as much as being free is.

Good points, and morality is not only always in a state of change... but it's open to a wide variety of interpretation, which you basically stated.

Drawing lines IS necessary, though. Slippery-slope arguments don't work in the real world. In fact, lines are drawn quite easily in a Democracy. People have a chance to collectively shape our general view of morality. That's why I said before, you win some and lose some in a Democracy, and that's O.K..

My main point with that prior post was simply that it's lunacy to say that this is a simple issue. It's been going on since the dawn of man. We haven't stopped it. If it were simple, it wouldn't exist. A good portion of the world's population doesn't even feel it's criminal at ALL.

So, it remains a complex issue, despite anyone trying to paint it otherwise.

cutthemdown
03-30-2009, 05:45 PM
I thought of that and agree to an extent. That said, we also have a decent contingent of right-wing and Republican voters here on the Mane, and it appears even most of them are willing to look at the problem with a more progressive outlook.



Good points, and morality is not only always in a state of change... but it's open to a wide variety of interpretation, which you basically stated.

Drawing lines IS necessary, though. Slippery-slope arguments don't work in the real world. In fact, lines are drawn quite easily in a Democracy. People have a chance to collectively shape our general view of morality. That's why I said before, you win some and lose some in a Democracy, and that's O.K..

My main point with that prior post was simply that it's lunacy to say that this is a simple issue. It's been going on since the dawn of man. We haven't stopped it. If it were simple, it wouldn't exist. A good portion of the world's population doesn't even feel it's criminal at ALL.

So, it remains a complex issue, despite anyone trying to paint it otherwise.


It's not a simple issue. How do you deal with kids born to a john? do they have some obligations as any father? Or can there be a contract between them the john not responsible for any kids. Conversely what about STDS? If legal does the hooker have a duty to make sure she is clean? If she does transmit an STD can she be sued? Will she need insurance then to be a hooker?

Legalize prostitution opens up a ton of issues just like legalizing pot or cocaine does. Anyone who see's it as just some simple stroke of a pen probably has never been in charge of anything big and had to think of all the angles before making a decision.

As far as the demographics of the board go I think it's mostly all talk right wingers, and super liberals who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Really just a bunch of sports fans who love the Broncos and love to argue.

I'm certainly no conservative but on the board I am perceived that way. There is a big difference between being a hawk and being a neo-con IMO.

Los Broncos
03-30-2009, 05:51 PM
You only have a problem spreading disease if it stays unregulated ( another life saving cost saving measure).

Instead of paying for it why not just use your hand?

Or are people so addicted to sex that they must have it?

And 50 to 70 percent of sexually active people have HPV and most don't know it.

It causes cancer in women and death as well.

Fan In Exile
03-30-2009, 06:14 PM
I looked at your links and provided counter-examples.

I wasn't attempting to "win an internet argument" until you mistakenly attempted to correct those of us who called it a complicated issue. It is INDEED complicated and there is INDEED a wide variance of data that can lead people to varying conclusions. We've provided you with plenty.

It it were a simple issue, it would be solved. If it were a simple issue, we wouldn't have 85% of voters here in favor of legalization.

:rofl:

cutthemdown
03-30-2009, 06:18 PM
Even if you legalized it there would still be a black market. Govt would have to regulate and tax, put it in the areas they want it at etc. Some people would then break those rules and you still have to police it, prosecute etc. Look at Nevada, they have a robust vice squad in vegas. Why because the brothels are far away and people want to screw right at the hotel.

Popps
03-30-2009, 06:27 PM
:rofl:

You can laugh, but it doesn't make your position any less silly.

The mere fact that the entire globe has been dealing with this problem throughout history shoots dead your "it's simple" assertion.

Popps
03-30-2009, 06:33 PM
Even if you legalized it there would still be a black market. Govt would have to regulate and tax, put it in the areas they want it at etc. Some people would then break those rules and you still have to police it, prosecute etc. Look at Nevada, they have a robust vice squad in vegas. Why because the brothels are far away and people want to screw right at the hotel.

But, listen to the women who engage. The New Zealand article quoted these women as saying basically that making it illegal left them with only the most desperate men.... criminal types. Decriminalizing it changes that completely, and the robust vice squad becomes less necessary.

Those resources can then be focused on stopping the very black markets you speak about.

Again, in my last jury duty... 12 working Americans were pulled in for three days at a cost of 12K per day, plus lost wages and other expenses because some girl apparently offered an extra service at the end of a massage.

Really? $36,000 and a loss of job production for that? The judge said not only is that regular scenario, but he said convicting these "offenders" is almost impossible. The judge made no bones about expressing how silly (post-trial) the whole procedure has become.

I'm not talking about illegal human slave trading, I'm talking about the above scenario and those like it. It's just silly. It's not going to stop. It never has. You've got to try to curb it with education and keep those who insist on partaking in safer environments.... not working street corners with pimps.