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broncofan7
03-26-2009, 08:21 AM
This officer deserves to lose his badge.He caused a family to lose a sacred moment that cannot be replaced. Some people do not have the ability to make proper judgements and those people do not deserve to have any authority over the rest of us


NFL player's police saga at Plano hospital captured on dash cam

12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, March 26, 2009

By STEVE THOMPSON and TANYA EISERER / The Dallas Morning News


As he rushed his family to the hospital, 26-year-old NFL running back Ryan Moats rolled through a red light. A Dallas police officer pulled their SUV over outside the emergency room.

Moats and his wife explained that her mother was dying inside the hospital.

"You really want to go through this right now?" Moats pleaded. "My mother-in-law is dying. Right now!"

Officer Robert Powell, 25, was unmoved. He spent long minutes writing Moats a ticket and threatened him with arrest.

"I can screw you over," the officer said. "I'd rather not do that."

The scene last week, captured by a dashboard video camera, prompted apologies and the promise of an investigation from Dallas police officials Wednesday.

"There were some things that were said that were disturbing, to say the least," said Lt. Andy Harvey, a police spokesman.

Moats' mother-in-law, Jonetta Collinsworth, was struggling at 45 with breast cancer that had spread throughout her body. Family members rushed to her bedside from as far away as California.

On March 17, the night of their incident with Powell, the Moatses had gone to their Frisco home to get some rest. Around midnight, they received word that they needed to hurry back to the hospital if they wanted to see Collinsworth before she died.

The couple, along with Collinsworth's father and an aunt, jumped into the SUV and headed back toward Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano. They exited the Dallas North Tollway at Preston Road, just down the street from the hospital.

Moats turned on his hazard lights. He stopped at a red light, where, he said, the only nearby motorist signaled for him to go ahead. He went through.

Powell, watching traffic from a hidden spot, flipped on his lights and sirens. In less than a minute, he caught up to the SUV and followed for about 20 more seconds as Moats found a parking spot outside the emergency room.

Moats' wife, 27-year-old Tamishia, was the first out. Powell yelled at her to get back in.

"Get in there!" he yelled. "Let me see your hands!"

"My mom is dying," she explained.

Powell was undeterred.

"I saw in his eyes that he really did not care," Tamishia Moats said Wednesday.

Tamishia Moats and her great-aunt ignored the officer and headed into the hospital. Ryan Moats stayed behind with the father of the dying woman.

"I waited until no traffic was coming," Moats told Powell, explaining his passage through the red light. "I got seconds before she's gone, man."

Powell demanded his license and proof of insurance. Moats produced his license but said he didn't know where the insurance paperwork was.

"Just give me a ticket or whatever," he said, beginning to sound exasperated and a little argumentative.

"Shut your mouth," Powell told him. "You can cooperate and settle down, or I can just take you to jail for running a red light."

There was more back and forth.

"If you're going to give me a ticket, give me a ticket."

"Your attitude says that you need one."

"All I'm asking you is just to hurry up."

Powell began a lecture.

"If you want to keep this going, I'll just put you in handcuffs," the officer said, "and I'll take you to jail for running a red light."

Powell made several more points, including that the SUV was illegally parked. Moats replied "Yes sir" to each.

"Understand what I can do," Powell concluded. "I can tow your truck. I can charge you with fleeing. I can make your night very difficult."

"I understand," Moats responded. "I hope you'll be a great person and not do that."

Hospital security guards arrived and told Powell that the Moatses' relative really was upstairs dying.

Powell spent several minutes inside his squad car, in part to check Moats for outstanding warrants. He found none.

Another hospital staffer came out and spoke with a Plano police officer who had arrived.

"Hey, that's the nurse," the Plano officer told Powell. "She said that the mom's dying right now, and she's wanting to know if they can get him up there before she dies."

"All right," Powell replied. "I'm almost done."

As Moats signed the ticket, Powell continued his lecture.

"Attitude's everything," he said. "All you had to do is stop, tell me what was going on. More than likely, I would have let you go."

It had been about 13 minutes.

Moats and Collinsworth's father went into the hospital, where they found Collinsworth had died, with her daughter at her side.

The Moatses, who are black, said Wednesday that they can't help but think that race might have played a part in how Powell, who is white, treated them.

"I think he should lose his job," said Ryan Moats, a Dallas native who attended Bishop Lynch High School and now plays for the Houston Texans.

Powell, hired in January 2006, did not return a call for comment. Assistant Chief Floyd Simpson said Powell told police officials that he believed that he was doing his job. He has been reassigned to dispatch pending an investigation.

"When people are in distress, we should come to the rescue," said Simpson. "We shouldn't further their distress."

Collinsworth was buried Saturday in Louisiana.

Rebecca Lopez of WFAA-TV contributed to this report.

rugbythug
03-26-2009, 08:28 AM
He Should lose his badge because he is Power Drunk. The last person you would want to be a Police Officer.

Garcia Bronco
03-26-2009, 08:35 AM
POS officer.

Broncoman13
03-26-2009, 08:36 AM
That is horrible. Some people in this world truly do not deserve to have any type of authority. If I were the Moatses I would be very troubled by this. It sounds like race very well could have played a role. I hope the city does the right thing and keeps that officer off of the streets. If I were his supervisor I would expect a written apology be issued to the family at the very least.

DB Doom
03-26-2009, 08:39 AM
police officers = high school bullies.

very tragic situation.

broncos-rock
03-26-2009, 08:39 AM
I can't believe the lack of compassion that this guy displayed, pisses me off and I hope they do discipline him accordingly!

gunns
03-26-2009, 08:45 AM
I'm surprised anyone is surprised this happened. The surprising aspect is that they may look at the officer as being in the wrong. The only reason this made news was because it involved an NFL player. It happens every day and they get away with deplorable behavior every day.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-26-2009, 08:46 AM
police officers = high school bullies.

very tragic situation.

Exactly right.

Officer: "Do you know why I'm standing here?"
Me: "Because you got all C's in high school."

The Joker
03-26-2009, 08:46 AM
Police do a very difficult job and I sympathise with some of the abuse they get.

But when you have assholes like this patrolling the streets, honestly what do you expect? Seems pretty blatant that he purposely dragged out a long lecture to Moats for no other reason than to be spiteful and exert his power over him.

He deserves to lose his badge, with police like him out there why should anyone respect the badge?

WolfpackGuy
03-26-2009, 08:50 AM
Nice job, Barney.

<img src=http://weblogs.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/blog/Barney-Fife.jpg width=250>

baja
03-26-2009, 08:50 AM
Unfortunately it's guys that think like this that are drawn to become police officers they want to feel powerful over people. Hopefully they make an example of this guy. Sad story.

broncofan7
03-26-2009, 08:50 AM
That is horrible. Some people in this world truly do not deserve to have any type of authority. If I were the Moatses I would be very troubled by this. It sounds like race very well could have played a role. I hope the city does the right thing and keeps that officer off of the streets. If I were his supervisor I would expect a written apology be issued to the family at the very least.

Maybe I'm naive, but I honestly don't think that race had anything to do with this. I think this was a case of a stereotypical, overly arrogant police officer. Moats was traveling with family and not a group of young men and that should have been readily apparent to the officer along with the fact that they were in a hospital parking lot.

I happen to live 2 streets over from Moats and we have a few other athletes(Jake Reed--the old MIN vikings receiver) and other well to do people in our neighborhood-- black, white, latino, asian and Indian. The area that the hospital is in is also an affluent, multicultural area of the metroplex, so it is really not out of the norm for a younger black male to be driving a nice SUV---

Beantown Bronco
03-26-2009, 08:59 AM
I wonder if the cop would've behaved the same way if the woman was clearly going into labor.....would he have made her deliver right there on the street, with her hands in the air?

broncofan7
03-26-2009, 09:03 AM
I wonder if the cop would've behaved the same way if the woman was clearly going into labor.....would he have made her deliver right there on the street, with her hands in the air?

Incidents like these are great reminders as to why we have so many lawyers.....

no-pseudo-fan
03-26-2009, 09:04 AM
I wonder if the cop would've behaved the same way if the woman was clearly going into labor.....would he have made her deliver right there on the street, with her hands in the air?

He would have arrested the baby for indecent exposure.

Flex Gunmetal
03-26-2009, 09:07 AM
What a surprise, a ****bag cop on a power trip!
Hope he loses his job and works at pop-copy the rest of his life.

broncofan7
03-26-2009, 09:13 AM
He would have arrested the baby for indecent exposure.

LOL

Wes Mantooth
03-26-2009, 09:25 AM
police officers = high school bullies.

very tragic situation.

usually not the case.

DB-Freak
03-26-2009, 09:25 AM
Power always attracts the wrong type of people.

Irish Stout
03-26-2009, 09:31 AM
I'm surprised anyone is surprised this happened. The surprising aspect is that they may look at the officer as being in the wrong. The only reason this made news was because it involved an NFL player. It happens every day and they get away with deplorable behavior every day.

Happens every day... I don't know if race actually played a factor or not, but I've seen enough cops doing whatever they want cause they have the badge and the gun. At some point a lot of cops forget they're there to PROTECT and SERVE and feel they're there just to lay down the law... whatever law that might be. The biggest problem is there is not an easy civil way to fight this. If it hadn't been for the dashboard cam and the many witnesses (nurses, security guards, etc...) at the hospital, this wouldn't be an issue. Its a story cause hes an NFL player, but it needs to be a story cause it happens all to often.

TerrElway
03-26-2009, 09:37 AM
police officers = high school bullies.

very tragic situation.

Most of the cops I know were kind of fringe kids in high school. Not bullies or losers but not top students or in the "popular" crowd. In other words, normal people.

Of course there are power hungry A-holes everywhere and I only know about a dozen cops in a couple of cities.

broncofan7
03-26-2009, 09:43 AM
Most of the cops I know were kind of fringe kids in high school. Not bullies or losers but not top students or in the "popular" crowd. In other words, normal people.

Of course there are power hungry A-holes everywhere and I only know about a dozen cops in a couple of cities.

I know two of my HS classmates who are police officers and I agree with your assessment. But there are always exceptions and this guy's lack of an ability to think in a rational fashion certainly is not becoming of a police officer.........

gyldenlove
03-26-2009, 09:51 AM
I wonder of this guy worked in Floriday last year, sounds a little like the guy who booked Marcus Thomas.

slyinky
03-26-2009, 09:57 AM
Video of the incident.
http://www.dallasnews.com/video/dallasnews/hp/index.html?nvid=345572&shu=1

vancejohnson82
03-26-2009, 10:04 AM
see, the problem isnt with the cops ticket...

but if you pulls someone over in the hospital parking lot, let them go quickly...

this guy deserves to be put in jail actually

Wes Mantooth
03-26-2009, 10:04 AM
Video of the incident.
http://www.dallasnews.com/video/dallasnews/hp/index.html?nvid=345572&shu=1

OK that was real bad. That cop is in deep S**t

Garcia Bronco
03-26-2009, 10:07 AM
He can't arrest him for running a red light as I understand it. All he can do is write him a ticket.

Smiling Assassin27
03-26-2009, 10:27 AM
This is typical of too many from police walking the beat to members of Congress and the White House. They confuse 'authority' with 'power'. Authority comes from service. Power comes from coercion. Until folks start realizing that 'being the boss' is based in serving society and not in manipulation and bullying, we'll see this continue.

The guy did nothing criminal, so far as i can tell, but his ethical shortcomings better get him a healthy kick in the ass. I'm sure he's done some heroic things in his time as an officer as well. Reminds me of Matt Dillon in Crash.

ColoradoBuff
03-26-2009, 10:28 AM
wow...way to go Barney! freakin loser!

PAUonePUNCH
03-26-2009, 11:01 AM
What a sick person. He should be kicked off the force asap.

Garcia Bronco
03-26-2009, 11:29 AM
What a sick person. He should be kicked off the force asap.

I'd fire him today if I were his supervisor. On second thought, I transfer him to some ****ty job and make him quit on his own.

Br0nc0Buster
03-26-2009, 11:35 AM
He told Moats to "respect his authoritay"

Seriously though this guy is a douche, and looks like he has fallen to the "Lucifer effect"

Hopefully he gets canned, and then gets arrested for speeding when driving to his new job at Hardees

no-pseudo-fan
03-26-2009, 11:39 AM
That cop was too nice. He should've given the other family members tickets for accessory to running a red light, fleeing the scene of the crime, public disturbance, and mopery.

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 12:38 PM
What a sad display by this young officer. Not only were his actions seemingly motivated by nothing more than a need to establish his authority, he was seemingly unfazed by this poor family's situation. :notthissh

I bet that sonofabitch didn't stop to think about how this makes the job tougher for all other law enforcement as well.

I hope the powers to be at Dallas PD pull this kid into their office and chew his ass out real good and send him out with a formal reprimand.

WABronco
03-26-2009, 12:40 PM
What a loser. The situation was clearly too much for him to handle.

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 12:42 PM
What a loser. The situation was clearly too much for him to handle.

Something tells me that guy is just an asshole. Any halfway decent officer would have hit the lights and sirens and cleared a way to the hospital the second he found out what was happening.

Gcver2ver3
03-26-2009, 12:59 PM
that was terrible...i really hope it wasn't racially influenced, seriously...but we'll never know...

what i am glad for is that dash cam...

hopefully these nightmare incidents being taped and publicized will minimize power hungry cops from abusing their authority...

Gcver2ver3
03-26-2009, 01:01 PM
with that said, i still don't want the guy fired...just disciplined...

i never like seeing people lose work...he may have a family to support himself...

i would only want to see him removed from his position if he is unable to understand what he did was wrong...

but if he's unable to realize that, then that means he'd do it again, and that would be unacceptable...

Dedhed
03-26-2009, 01:13 PM
I hope the powers to be at Dallas PD pull this kid into their office and chew his ass out real good and send him out with a formal reprimand.

A whole reprimand! SH!tsticks like this who offer nothing in the way of protection or service to the public have no right to be in his position.

Dedhed
03-26-2009, 01:16 PM
with that said, i still don't want the guy fired...just disciplined...

i never like seeing people lose work...he may have a family to support himself...

i would only want to see him removed from his position if he is unable to understand what he did was wrong...

but if he's unable to realize that, then that means he'd do it again, and that would be unacceptable...
He clearly has no respect for the family of others. He's accountable, and by his actions, not qualified to be in his position. Period.

HEAV
03-26-2009, 01:18 PM
There are A-holes in every profession, sadly it takes a few asshat's to ruin the group.

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 01:33 PM
A whole reprimand! SH!tsticks like this who offer nothing in the way of protection or service to the public have no right to be in his position.

How do you know he offers nothing in the way of protection or service? As horribly as he acted in this situation, for all we know he might be a decent cop most of the time. I don't know about you, but I've certainly acted in ways where I look back and go "damn, that was a dickhead thing to do."

Also, regardless of whether we feel he should be fired or not, you have to remember these guys have labor contracts, unions and so forth. They can't just be fired for one offense unless it's of a very serious caliber, and I doubt this episode is going to be enough.

DB-Freak
03-26-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm sure he's done some heroic things in his time as an officer as well. Reminds me of Matt Dillon in Crash.

LOL... what the hell are you jabbering about. I can't believe you even pulled up such a reference

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 01:34 PM
There are A-holes in every profession, sadly it takes a few asshat's to ruin the group.

Quoted for truth.

tsiguy96
03-26-2009, 01:35 PM
There are A-holes in every profession, sadly it takes a few asshat's to ruin the group.

i think when you get to law enforcement, there are far more then a "few"

cops nowadays are fundraisers just as much as anything else.

Mogulseeker
03-26-2009, 01:41 PM
Exactly right.

Officer: "Do you know why I'm standing here?"
Me: "Because you got all C's in high school."

I was about to post the same thing. That movie was hilarious.

Smiling Assassin27
03-26-2009, 01:42 PM
LOL... what the hell are you jabbering about. I can't believe you even pulled up such a reference

if the point's lost on you, i'm sorry. go back to your backwoods simplicity as it seems to serve you well.

BroncoBen
03-26-2009, 01:43 PM
That cop was too nice. He should've given the other family members tickets for accessory to running a red light, fleeing the scene of the crime, public disturbance, and mopery.

Not to mention 'Driving while Black'

Smiling Assassin27
03-26-2009, 01:50 PM
with that said, i still don't want the guy fired...just disciplined...

i never like seeing people lose work...he may have a family to support himself...

i would only want to see him removed from his position if he is unable to understand what he did was wrong...

but if he's unable to realize that, then that means he'd do it again, and that would be unacceptable...

people would rather pontificate and engage in attempts at cosmic justice rather than assessing the problem and engaging it on a useful level. it's easier for many to just hit the eject button and declare this guy a POS based on a single incident, which is short-sighted, uninformed, and couched in laziness. without defending the guy's actions in this incident, i'm not willing to pronounce that he's unfit for police work, that he's racist, or that he's entirely power-mad. we don't know about any possible commendations he's received or what they were for. in short, we don't know dink about this guy or his record, yet are willing to chop off his head for one very bad incident.

that's a bad way to fly, folks. denounce the act and the role this guy played in it. but anything more, unless you KNOW something that we all do not, is irresponsible. maybe he does deserve to get canned, but nobody here is in a position to know. quit being lazy, people.

Gcver2ver3
03-26-2009, 02:13 PM
people would rather pontificate and engage in attempts at cosmic justice rather than assessing the problem and engaging it on a useful level. it's easier for many to just hit the eject button and declare this guy a POS based on a single incident, which is short-sighted, uninformed, and couched in laziness. without defending the guy's actions in this incident, i'm not willing to pronounce that he's unfit for police work, that he's racist, or that he's entirely power-mad. we don't know about any possible commendations he's received or what they were for. in short, we don't know dink about this guy or his record, yet are willing to chop off his head for one very bad incident.

that's a bad way to fly, folks. denounce the act and the role this guy played in it. but anything more, unless you KNOW something that we all do not, is irresponsible. maybe he does deserve to get canned, but nobody here is in a position to know. quit being lazy, people.

good points...

if i were judged on just a single incident then i would either be called a villian or an angel, and i'm neither...so i won't judge him on that...

even as a black man, i'm not going to assume he's racist either...

but i am all about accountability and responsibility...

if this guy doesn't take responsibility for what he did as being wrong, and hold himself accountable, then i'd have to agree with other posters that say he isn't fit to be a cop...

but if after he's had time to reflect, he realized that he could've handled that situation A LOT better, then i say forgive and move on...

what's unfortunate is that Moats and crew had a crucial time robbed of them due to a cop's silliness, and nothing can be said to fix that...

Northman
03-26-2009, 02:31 PM
Of course is Moats doesnt run a red light he avoids this alltogether.

El Minion
03-26-2009, 02:41 PM
The complete unedited video:

http://www.dallasnews.com/video/index.html?nvid=345818

Gcver2ver3
03-26-2009, 02:50 PM
Of course is Moats doesnt run a red light he avoids this alltogether.

a family member was on her deathbed...

Moats was informed that they needed to hurry over because she could die at any second...

considering that the streets were relatively clear...does the family really take the chance of missing out on a dying mother's last moments because of a red light?...

scttgrd
03-26-2009, 02:55 PM
The cop should have shot them, they clearly broke the law. And the nerve of them to not respect his authority.

/sarcasm

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 03:18 PM
Of course is Moats doesnt run a red light he avoids this alltogether.

Sure, there is no exception in the law for running red lights or stop signs, but this is a prime example of why officers are given discretion in enforcing traffic laws.

You know that I'm extremely pro-police, but this officer was out of line in this situation.

BroncoDoug
03-26-2009, 03:41 PM
Moats should of just bolted into the hospital and dealt with the ramifications later. I think after seeing what was going on the officer would just write him a red light ticket and move on...At least thats what I would do.

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Moats should of just bolted into the hospital and dealt with the ramifications later. I think after seeing what was going on the officer would just write him a red light ticket and move on...At least thats what I would do.

Then the officer could have charged him with resisting arrest, fleeing and alluding...etc. Judging by what this officer did, I doubt he's one to just let things go.

I think Moats handled this about as well as could be expected.

cutthemdown
03-26-2009, 03:49 PM
This isn't that bad people. Officers deal with people making up stories all the time. It sucks this happened but a cop can't let someone go every time they come up with an excuse like this. True it sounds like 13 minutes is a long time, but not really when you are talking about cops and getting pulled over.

Also playing the race card on it is typical of this type of situation. IMO the officer probably thought they were full of **** and lying. Not because they were black but because cops get lied to all day long.

cutthemdown
03-26-2009, 03:51 PM
Then the officer could have charged him with resisting arrest, fleeing and alluding...etc. Judging by what this officer did, I doubt he's one to just let things go.

I think Moats handled this about as well as could be expected.

I agree bolting may have got him in hot water. No way the cop knew he wasn't lying. Cops get stories like this almost every night. Too bad the officer couldn't have realized this guy really was rushing to a dying persons side, but after the hospital stafff confirmed it it sounds like he let them go.

Obviously a crappy experience but IMO not something the cop should be fired for. It's a tough job being a cop, you get lied to, ran from, etc etc all the time.

Flex Gunmetal
03-26-2009, 03:52 PM
This isn't that bad people. Officers deal with people making up stories all the time. It sucks this happened but a cop can't let someone go every time they come up with an excuse like this. True it sounds like 13 minutes is a long time, but not really when you are talking about cops and getting pulled over.

Also playing the race card on it is typical of this type of situation. IMO the officer probably thought they were full of **** and lying. Not because they were black but because cops get lied to all day long.

Yes. How could it be obvious they were having an emergency, and not full of ****?
It's not like he pulled them over in a hospital parking lot.

cutthemdown
03-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Yes. How could it be obvious they were having an emergency, and not full of ****?
It's not like he pulled them over in a hospital parking lot.

So cops should just let anyone go who is pulled over by a hospital that says someone is dying? I agree it sucks, would have been great if cop had the brains to put 2 and 2 together and decide these people are telling the truth.

But to call for an officer to be fired because of this is a joke. These guys have a tough job. Let's fire the ones who are trigger happy, then worry about the ones who are jerks.

Flex Gunmetal
03-26-2009, 04:05 PM
So cops should just let anyone go who is pulled over by a hospital that says someone is dying? I agree it sucks, would have been great if cop had the brains to put 2 and 2 together and decide these people are telling the truth.

But to call for an officer to be fired because of this is a joke. These guys have a tough job. Let's fire the ones who are trigger happy, then worry about the ones who are jerks.
I'm not in the position to determine his punishment, if any. I can say with conviction he is an asshole on a power trip, who either isn't smart or doesn't care.
Sad situation all around. I know if I needlessly prevented someone from sharing a family members last moments I wouldn't be able to shake the guilt.

DHallblows
03-26-2009, 04:12 PM
Way to go Texas :thumbs:

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 04:17 PM
I agree bolting may have got him in hot water. No way the cop knew he wasn't lying. Cops get stories like this almost every night. Too bad the officer couldn't have realized this guy really was rushing to a dying persons side, but after the hospital stafff confirmed it it sounds like he let them go.

Obviously a crappy experience but IMO not something the cop should be fired for. It's a tough job being a cop, you get lied to, ran from, etc etc all the time.

Good point. Cops get stories like this all the time on traffic stops. Personally, had it been me, I would have hit the lights and sirens and escorted them to the hospital and checked to make sure the story was legit. Once I saw they actually had family in the hospital I would have been on my merry way.

A friend of mine who is a deputy sheriff in the next county pulled a guy over one night for speeding. Guy said he was trying to get to the hospital to see his father. My buddy took him at his word and let him go. On a whim he ran the guy's info through the computer and found out his father had been dead for almost 5 years, so he wrote out the citation and mailed it to the guy.

Rock Chalk
03-26-2009, 04:45 PM
He can't arrest him for running a red light as I understand it. All he can do is write him a ticket.

Nope, cops can arrest you for anything that is a ticketable offense. Supreme court ruled that the cops dont have to know whcih are jailable offenses so everything is now jailable.

****ers.

Dedhed
03-26-2009, 05:46 PM
How do you know he offers nothing in the way of protection or service? As horribly as he acted in this situation, for all we know he might be a decent cop most of the time. I don't know about you, but I've certainly acted in ways where I look back and go "damn, that was a dickhead thing to do."I'm sure you offer the same leniency to people who are being a dickhead to you when you're on duty. After all, you have no idea whether they're an upstanding citizen most of the time.

Also, regardless of whether we feel he should be fired or not, you have to remember these guys have labor contracts, unions and so forth. They can't just be fired for one offense unless it's of a very serious caliber, and I doubt this episode is going to be enough.
And you've just summed up why the police are as much a detriment to society as they are an asset.

Requiem
03-26-2009, 05:59 PM
Cop looks like a fat, power-tripping piece of ****. Not surprised.

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 06:16 PM
And you've just summed up why the police are as much a detriment to society as they are an asset.

:rofl:

Nominated for dumbest post of 2009.

jutang
03-26-2009, 06:31 PM
So cops should just let anyone go who is pulled over by a hospital that says someone is dying? I agree it sucks, would have been great if cop had the brains to put 2 and 2 together and decide these people are telling the truth.

But to call for an officer to be fired because of this is a joke. These guys have a tough job. Let's fire the ones who are trigger happy, then worry about the ones who are jerks.

If a police officer can't figure out he needs to let people rushing to the hospital with legitimate reasons go, he really needs a career change. With his logic combined with a stressful situation, he would be the trigger happy mofo that give upstanding cops a bad name.

Firing him might be extreme, but he really shouldn't be anywhere except at a desk or enforcing parking meters for a long time.

cutthemdown
03-26-2009, 06:39 PM
If a police officer can't figure out he needs to let people rushing to the hospital with legitimate reasons go, he really needs a career change. With his logic combined with a stressful situation, he would be the trigger happy mofo that give upstanding cops a bad name.

Firing him might be extreme, but he really shouldn't be anywhere except at a desk or enforcing parking meters for a long time.

I had a cop once write me a ticket for no seatbelt, when he watched me unbuckle it to get my wallet out. If we fired or sent to desk jobs every cop that did stuff like that we wouldn't have very many cops.

Let's focus on the one who shot a guy while he was laying down complying with orders etc.

I'm not saying this cop shouldn't be talked to, go to extra training, realize that he needs to be more reactive and less combative when starting a stop etc.

If we fired every cop who was a jerk we wouldn't have a very large police force.

thumpc
03-26-2009, 06:41 PM
The police chief held a press coference and gave an extraordinary apology here. http://www.dallasnews.com/video/dallasnews/sports/index.html?nvid=345923

tesnyde
03-26-2009, 06:51 PM
police officers = high school bullies.

very tragic situation.

Police are a microcosm of the rest of society. A few cops are a-holes, just like a fewer maners, while most cops are good people, like most maners. My job requires i work with police every day and high school bullies. The good majority of police wiill take a bullet for you and me. Ive been involved in a potential Columbine and a police officer with great instincts stopped it. I recent your steroetype because i am sure it is an attempt to belittle. However, here is a thought...most high school bullies tend to be high achievers. Victims tend to be outcasts and maladjusted. Would you rather have a society full of victims or bullies? The cure is teach people not to be victims. There is some interesting research into this approach. Maybe you should read it and lose your victim mentality. Google "bullies to buddies" for starters. Ive listened to many police officers comment on this story, and like you and me, they feel the officer in this case was wrong. The solution would have been to hold his license and follow the family to hospital room to verify the story.

DBroncos4life
03-26-2009, 06:52 PM
So cops should just let anyone go who is pulled over by a hospital that says someone is dying? I agree it sucks, would have been great if cop had the brains to put 2 and 2 together and decide these people are telling the truth.

But to call for an officer to be fired because of this is a joke. These guys have a tough job. Let's fire the ones who are trigger happy, then worry about the ones who are jerks.

Well he will have all that to hang on to while he is looking for a new job.

Dedhed
03-26-2009, 06:56 PM
:rofl:

Nominated for dumbest post of 2009.
Coming from a wannabe cop, I'll take that for what it's worth.

Northman
03-26-2009, 06:57 PM
a family member was on her deathbed...

Moats was informed that they needed to hurry over because she could die at any second...

considering that the streets were relatively clear...does the family really take the chance of missing out on a dying mother's last moments because of a red light?...

If you want to avoid being pulled over? Absolutely.

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 07:10 PM
Coming from a wannabe cop, I'll take that for what it's worth.

For what it's worth, I'll just say you picked a very good username. :approve:

Florida_Bronco
03-26-2009, 07:15 PM
Police are a microcosm of the rest of society. A few cops are a-holes, just like a fewer maners, while most cops are good people, like most maners. My job requires i work with police every day and high school bullies. The good majority of police wiill take a bullet for you and me. Ive been involved in a potential Columbine and a police officer with great instincts stopped it. I recent your steroetype because i am sure it is an attempt to belittle. However, here is a thought...most high school bullies tend to be high achievers. Victims tend to be outcasts and maladjusted. Would you rather have a society full of victims or bullies? The cure is teach people not to be victims. There is some interesting research into this approach. Maybe you should read it and lose your victim mentality. Google "bullies to buddies" for starters. Ive listened to many police officers comment on this story, and like you and theey feel the officer in this case was wrong. The solution would have been to hold his license and follow the family to hospital room to verify the story.

Great post!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-26-2009, 07:21 PM
Don't know if anyone posted the video yet... LINK (http://deadspin.com/5185881/the-video-of-ryan-moats-getting-pulled-over-is-intense-and-troubling)

Edited to add: Officer Powell sounds like a ****ing dick smoker. **** that mother****er.

tesnyde
03-26-2009, 07:25 PM
I bet there a 1000 stories of how a police officer saved a life today and this one gets all the publicity. Now a few people want to stereotype all police in negative way. What a shame.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-26-2009, 07:28 PM
I bet there a 1000 stories of how a police officer saved a life today and this one gets all the publicity. Now a few people want to stereotype all police in negative way. What a shame.

And how many stories of cops being jackholes like this cock smoker go unreported because the person they're arresting isn't famous?

DBroncos4life
03-26-2009, 08:10 PM
I'm sure if a member of your family member was about to die you would be just peachy that a cop was just doing his job and you didn't get to be there when they died.

Mogulseeker
03-26-2009, 08:15 PM
My take:

Going through my head during reading and watching this, I was thinking 'racist cop.' I thought the situation might have been different had they been white. No real evidence though.

But reading the comments afterward, I couldn't stomach Moats playing the race card.

Maybe that says something about me... or society in general.

The cop was in the right, but he could have had much more compassion. Basically, this cop wasn't a human. He didn't handle that well at all, and aside from the initial running of a red light, everything afterward could have been avoided.

This reminds me of a time in junior high (it says I joined in April 2002, but I know it was much earlier than that) and a black friend I had who would ALWAYS play the race card.

One time the rec. center in Golden, CO wouldn't let us use their gym (he was 14, min age 15), and he automatically played the race card. (In his defense, there were some guy in the gym who must have been under 15.) You wanna know what I did? I came on the mane and bragged about it. But years later in school, we went to McDonalds one day for lunch, and he got pulled over for speeding (he was, and he was blasting hip-hop, as well). We had an IT class afterward that we were late for. When the teacher asked us why we were late, he said "because I'm black." I was thinking "WHAT?"

There are a lot of nuance with race. But I think both sides here could have handled the situation better.,

Gcver2ver3
03-26-2009, 08:47 PM
If you want to avoid being pulled over? Absolutely.

lol...i think they had a little bit of a higher priority to concern themselves with over the threat of being pulled over...

it's all about priority...i think they had theirs in order...i can't possibly believe you'd disagree...

Northman
03-26-2009, 08:47 PM
I bet there a 1000 stories of how a police officer saved a life today and this one gets all the publicity. Now a few people want to stereotype all police in negative way. What a shame.

Oh, thats always how it goes. Its no fun if you cant pile on a cop. Society would rather have the dirt rather than the good stuff that people/officials do.

Northman
03-26-2009, 08:48 PM
I'm sure if a member of your family member was about to die you would be just peachy that a cop was just doing his job and you didn't get to be there when they died.

I would be ok because i wouldnt have ran a red light. Safety first.

Northman
03-26-2009, 08:49 PM
lol...i think they had a little bit of a higher priority to concern themselves with over the threat of being pulled over...

it's all about priority...i think they had theirs in order...i can't possibly believe you'd disagree...


So, had he run the light and killed someone in the process he still would have priority? I cant believe your that naive.

Gcver2ver3
03-26-2009, 08:50 PM
I would be ok because i wouldnt have ran a red light. Safety first.

safety first?...over getting your wife to spend the last few moments with her mother?...

please tell me you're joking...

btw...the guy turned on his hazard lights and was waved in by the one car remotely around the intersection...

DBroncos4life
03-26-2009, 08:51 PM
So, had he run the light and killed someone in the process he still would have priority? I cant believe your that naive.

He stopped and waited hell even another driver could see that they had to get somewhere and waived them through. Its not like he hit the gas and closed his eyes and left it up to god.

Gcver2ver3
03-26-2009, 08:52 PM
So, had he run the light and killed someone in the process he still would have priority? I cant believe your that naive.

u sound like a real idiot...please stop...

stop trying to turn this into something other than what happened...

as already mentioned...he turned on his emergency lights and was waved in by the one car remotely close...

they didn't just blindly run a red light like some runaway circus...

they were victims in this situation and you're sounding about as unsympathetic to their situation as that cop did...

Northman
03-26-2009, 08:54 PM
u sound like a real idiot...please stop...

stop trying to turn this into something other than what happened...

as already mentioned...he turned on his emergency lights and was waved in by the one car remotely close...

they didn't just blindly run a red light like some runaway circus...

they were victimes in this situation and you're sounding about as unsympathetic to their situation as that cop did...


Ahh yes, let the name calling began because i dont agree with you. Welcome to ignore.

Northman
03-26-2009, 08:56 PM
He stopped and waited hell even another driver could see that they had to get somewhere and waived them through. Its not like he hit the gas and closed his eyes and left it up to god.

Its still a risk regardless and against the law. I know your not going to understand where im coming from and thats ok. We agree to disagree here.

Gcver2ver3
03-26-2009, 08:56 PM
Ahh yes, let the name calling began because i dont agree with you. Welcome to ignore.

i hope you do ignore since you = ignorant...

i see you have no comeback for my comments because i'm right...

not to mention i said you sound like an idiot which isn't name calling...no more than calling me naive at least...

fail...

gunns
03-26-2009, 09:01 PM
I bet that sonofab**** didn't stop to think about how this makes the job tougher for all other law enforcement as well.


What makes it tougher is that there is rarely sufficient discipline for cops who behave this way, assert their power of authority way beyond it's boundaries. And without that discipline it seems more and more are feeling more powerful in doing whatever they damn well please.

thumpc
03-26-2009, 09:08 PM
You see the police chief using this to send a message to his officers and the policing community. He hangs the officer out to dry, by name, and suspends him. He is using it as a training video for what not to do.

gunns
03-26-2009, 09:18 PM
So, had he run the light and killed someone in the process he still would have priority? I cant believe your that naive.

But that didn't happen. The cop, when hearing why they were at the hospital could have followed them in and issued the ticket, if that was what he felt needed to be done. The fact Moats stopped and was waved through by another motorist tells me he didn't just run the light and I'm sure the cop saw that.

I bet there a 1000 stories of how a police officer saved a life today and this one gets all the publicity. Now a few people want to stereotype all police in negative way. What a shame.

This one? The bad ones rarely get the publicity, and there are many in society who haven't experienced the "strong arm of the law" so they think it's a stereotype but it's beginning to be more than a few that are looking at police in a negative way. And please, please don't come back with an idiotic statement like "if you don't break the law you don't have to worry about it" because it simply is not true. The shame comes from the fact that an idol that we were all brought up to respect and look at as the "good guy" has a dark side that doesn't have the same respect for who he works for and it is becoming all too apparent.

tesnyde
03-26-2009, 09:53 PM
[QUOTE=gunns;2354307]But that didn't happen. The cop, when hearing why they were at the hospital could have followed them in and issued the ticket, if that was what he felt needed to be done. The fact Moats stopped and was waved through by another motorist tells me he didn't just run the light and I'm sure the cop saw that.



This one? The bad ones rarely get the publicity, and there are many in society who haven't experienced the "strong arm of the law" so they think it's a stereotype but it's beginning to be more than a few that are looking at police in a negative way. And please, please don't come back with an idiotiyc statement like "if you don't break the law you don't have to worry about it" because it simply is not true. The shame comes from the fact that an idol that we were all brought up to respect and look at as the "good guy" has a dark side that doesn't have the same respect for who he works for and it becoming all too apparent.[/QUOTE


I am not so naive to think some innocent people get hassled. My point is that it is wrong to stereotype everyone of a group based on the actions of a few. Those few that give a group a bad name deserve consequence. However, so many people fall into an unwarranted victim mentallity. It seems so many people fail to take responsibility and claim to be victimized by police when they actually broke the law. If i choose to speed and i get pulled over i accept the ticket. As i stated before, the cop in this case made poor judgements. I have many officers say he should have held the drivers license and went into the hospital to verify the story. We are nation of laws that apply to citizens and police alike and a nation that celebrates individuality. We are accountable and should not condemn the group, race, gender, etc.

chaz
03-26-2009, 10:00 PM
I would be ok because i wouldnt have ran a red light. Safety first.

you're a dumbass

chaz
03-26-2009, 10:08 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

Police are a microcosm of the rest of society. A few cops are a-holes, just like a fewer maners, while most cops are good people, like most maners.

While you make a good point, I think power often attracts arrogance-leading more than normal amounts of aholes as police officers. I know there are plenty of good cops out there, and I'm thankful for them, but I've become all to aware of the abundance of jackass cops on power trips as well...it's undoubtedly beyond isolated incidents.

Some people simply cannot handle power.

Rock Chalk
03-26-2009, 10:16 PM
This cop did wrong but I think a lot of people are putting cops in general down when they shouldnt.

Look, by and large cops are around asshole criminals all day long. It would be human nature to assume everyone is a criminal if thats all you see all day long. They HAVE to be suspicious of everyone because for EVERYONE they stop there is a chance their life could end.

The end result is sometimes cops end up doing the wrong thing, making the wrong judgement, and treating people poorly when they had no cause or justification to. They are human beings, not machines, they are bound to make mistakes.

Trust me, as someone who has been arrested probably more than most of this board COMBINED, I am not a fan of police officers for the most part. But I also understand the situation they are in most of the time and that they do make mistakes. They are just like us. Bad days can lead to frustration on their part.

Gunns, your entire argument was stupid. There are not more bad police officers, they are just more publicized when they make mistakes and there are a few bad ones. Always have been though. Its no different now than it used to be.

This cop made a poor decision but in the end, Moats and his wife did get to spend the last few minutes with their loved one. A few precious minutes were robbed, but they got to say good bye and that is the most important thing. This cop should probably be suspended without pay and a further investigation is warranted, but unless this is a pattern with him with unfair treatment of civilians, then I see no reason for him to lose his job permanently.

Bronx33
03-26-2009, 10:19 PM
25 year old officer ( case solved)

Northman
03-26-2009, 10:28 PM
you're my hero


:sunshine:

Spider
03-26-2009, 10:47 PM
Sorry doesnt get the bull off the Ice Dallas .......... your officer ****ed up royaly , robbing this young woman of a chance to tell her mother good bye and the mother seeing her daughter 1 last time before she passed ........... No **** sticks , your tít should be in the ringer on this one

cutthemdown
03-27-2009, 02:55 AM
Sorry doesnt get the bull off the Ice Dallas .......... your officer ****ed up royaly , robbing this young woman of a chance to tell her mother good bye and the mother seeing her daughter 1 last time before she passed ........... No **** sticks , your tít should be in the ringer on this one

I think she made it in, but Moats who was driving didn't. SO he didn't get to be with mother in law, but I think she made it to the bedside and was there when she passes.

loborugger
03-27-2009, 05:40 AM
Incidents like these are great reminders as to why we have so many lawyers.....

Oh, yeah... bring in the lawyers.

There is a lot in play here. But this is the way I see it. We have become such a legalistic society, where some many facets of some many parts of some many people's lives is regulated by a law and the fear of a lawsuit, that they are crippled.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123293018734014067.html

Take a gander at this article if you have a moment.

Those who deal with the public are the most discouraged. Most doctors say they wouldn't advise their children to go into medicine. Government service is seen as a bureaucratic morass, not a noble calling. Make a difference? You can't even show basic human kindness for fear of legal action. Teachers across America are instructed never to put an arm around a crying child.

This event is a good example of what is happening in this country. An even better example is the cop in Colorado who ticketed the bus driver for Jay-walking. I am sure you most are familiar with it - the guy saved two lives, was hit by traffic, and received a ticket while in the hospital recovering. I also heard of a story a few months back with a cop giving a man a ticket for driving in the breakdown lane during rush hour to get his wife to the hospital for her birth. Dude got a ticket.

Technically, the bus driver was jay walking. Meanwhile, Moats ran a traffic light. And our husband above was driving in the breakdown lane. Technically, they broke the law.

And what I see is this... all this legalism crushes initiative. It crushes common sense. If you are a cop, the best thing that can happen is nothing. If you arrest someone, deal with someone, or do anything, you run the risk of a lawsuit.

As a society as a whole, we are in love with the lawsuit, with the legal answer, with fighting it out in court. Its absurd. And in the end, the "search for closure" & the huge payouts for wrong deeds doesnt right the wrong. It just makes the lawyers richer and more powerful.

Maybe its cuz I work in govt, but I see madness like this constantly. Not as egregious or as noteworthy as this, but its a daily event. And in the end, it stymies productive.

So, ya bring in the lawyers. But first answer me this... will the Dallas PD paying out millions of dollars bring the woman back to life? Will this cop losing his job give the family a few more minutes with their mother?

In the end, if the answer continues to be "get a lawyer!", then dont expect anything to change. Expect to see cops (along with doctors, teachers, etc, etc) exercise less & less common sense, operate more inside the rules (where there every action can be backed up by an SOP or document somewhere), and avoid doing anything at all, while criminals get away (literally) with murder.

Good luck with that.

broncofan7
03-27-2009, 06:30 AM
Oh, yeah... bring in the lawyers.

There is a lot in play here. But this is the way I see it. We have become such a legalistic society, where some many facets of some many parts of some many people's lives is regulated by a law and the fear of a lawsuit, that they are crippled.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123293018734014067.html

Take a gander at this article if you have a moment.

Those who deal with the public are the most discouraged. Most doctors say they wouldn't advise their children to go into medicine. Government service is seen as a bureaucratic morass, not a noble calling. Make a difference? You can't even show basic human kindness for fear of legal action. Teachers across America are instructed never to put an arm around a crying child.

This event is a good example of what is happening in this country. An even better example is the cop in Colorado who ticketed the bus driver for Jay-walking. I am sure you most are familiar with it - the guy saved two lives, was hit by traffic, and received a ticket while in the hospital recovering. I also heard of a story a few months back with a cop giving a man a ticket for driving in the breakdown lane during rush hour to get his wife to the hospital for her birth. Dude got a ticket.

Technically, the bus driver was jay walking. Meanwhile, Moats ran a traffic light. And our husband above was driving in the breakdown lane. Technically, they broke the law.

And what I see is this... all this legalism crushes initiative. It crushes common sense. If you are a cop, the best thing that can happen is nothing. If you arrest someone, deal with someone, or do anything, you run the risk of a lawsuit.

As a society as a whole, we are in love with the lawsuit, with the legal answer, with fighting it out in court. Its absurd. And in the end, the "search for closure" & the huge payouts for wrong deeds doesnt right the wrong. It just makes the lawyers richer and more powerful.

Maybe its cuz I work in govt, but I see madness like this constantly. Not as egregious or as noteworthy as this, but its a daily event. And in the end, it stymies productive.

So, ya bring in the lawyers. But first answer me this... will the Dallas PD paying out millions of dollars bring the woman back to life? Will this cop losing his job give the family a few more minutes with their mother?

In the end, if the answer continues to be "get a lawyer!", then dont expect anything to change. Expect to see cops (along with doctors, teachers, etc, etc) exercise less & less common sense, operate more inside the rules (where there every action can be backed up by an SOP or document somewhere), and avoid doing anything at all, while criminals get away (literally) with murder.

Good luck with that.

You cited a gross mis-enforcment of the law in your jay-walking example, and while I generally understand that our country tends to be overly litigous--this situation would IN FACT be JUSTIFIABLE. How else do you propose that Moats remedy this? Public stoning?

chaz
03-27-2009, 07:26 AM
This cop did wrong but I think a lot of people are putting cops in general down when they shouldnt.

Look, by and large cops are around a-hole criminals all day long. It would be human nature to assume everyone is a criminal if thats all you see all day long. They HAVE to be suspicious of everyone because for EVERYONE they stop there is a chance their life could end.

The end result is sometimes cops end up doing the wrong thing, making the wrong judgement, and treating people poorly when they had no cause or justification to. They are human beings, not machines, they are bound to make mistakes.

Trust me, as someone who has been arrested probably more than most of this board COMBINED, I am not a fan of police officers for the most part. But I also understand the situation they are in most of the time and that they do make mistakes. They are just like us. Bad days can lead to frustration on their part.


good post. But from my experience it goes both ways...people forget cops are human beings, but cops also forget those they're arresting are human beings. While cops may deal with a-holes more often than most, many people arrested are decent folks who made a mistake...and too often cops (NOT ALWAYS) don't realize this. Humanity needs to be recognized both ways

loborugger
03-27-2009, 07:28 AM
You cited a gross mis-enforcment of the law in your jay-walking example, and while I generally understand that our country tends to be overly litigous--this situation would IN FACT be JUSTIFIABLE. How else do you propose that Moats remedy this? Public stoning?

And there you have it. Everything bad in life that happens needs someone to blame and a "remedy."

What is the remedy to this? What action can Moats possibly take that will "fix" this situation? Even the stoning you bring up would not remedy the situation. I dont see a remedy to this situation and I defy you to find one. Sure, a lawyer can be brought in, the cop loses his job, the Dallas PD pays out a handsome settlement... And it rectifies nothing. The insurance company pays out a healthy settlement, and passes that on to the PD. The PD has to expend more $ to pay for the insurance, which means something else some where else has got to give... higher taxes, pay cuts, equipment not bought, etc. And now the cop is a disgruntled, bitter unemployed guy. Now, maybe he was a complete jerk to begin with, or maybe he was a good guy who at one moment made a bad choice. On the other hand, the family can stand on the steps of the court house with a fatter wallet and say stuff like "we just wanted to see justice served" "we wanted closure", or some other canned response... but in the end it wont bring mom back, wont give them another moment with her, and wont really make them feel better about anything - except maybe (if they are inclined to this emotion) give them a momentary sense of satisfaction that they can get from revenge.

I think you missed the point of my original posting...

The officer did nothing wrong. He saw a traffic violation and issued a ticket. The officer in Colorado who issued a jay walking ticket did nothing wrong. He saw a jay walker and issued a ticket. The officer that busted the husband speeding to the hospital in the breakdown lane during rush hour did nothing wrong. These cops violated no laws and broke no rules.

The point I was making was this - people who work in the public sector deal all day, every day with "how will this affect my career" "is this something I can get sued over" "can someone else somewhere else second guess my action (which a nation is doing right now as they watch this video & make a judgement)".

This leaves folks in the public sector with only one thing to fall back on - rules, regulations, and SOPs. As a form of protection, everything they do can be backed up with a rule or regulation written down somewhere by someone else (probably a lawyer). This mentality crushes initiative. It crushes common sense.

So, again, if the attitude of the public at large and the masses continues to be one of - get a lawyer... I need to right this situation... there has to be a remedy (that of course includes a healthy pay out)... I am outraged, wronged and I need revenge - then look for events like this to increase and not decrease. Watch for public servants to increasingly - not decreasingly - perform acts that while violating no law baffle bystanders because they violate any kind of common sense known to mankind.

Dedhed
03-27-2009, 07:33 AM
For what it's worth, I'll just say you picked a very good username. :approve:
Wow, such wit. I've never heard that before.

fontaine
03-27-2009, 07:33 AM
What a complete a$$hole of a cop.

I can understand that the officer can't just take a guys word for it, but the nurse comes down to confirm the mother is dying, the cop's response,

"Allright, I'm almost done,"

then he proceeds to give him a quick lecture:

"It's all about attitude, if you had told me (which Moats did) I would've probably let you go."

then again he repeats the lecture:

"It's all about attidue etc etc",

Finally, after 1 minute and 20 seconds after the nurse had confirmed the mother was dying the cop let's him go with two lectures about attitude and other unnecessary bs. The only thing he needed to do was give him the ticket (which he had already written out).

Instead the dumb cop harps on about attitude while previously he had threatened Moats with making his night difficult, told him to shut the hell up etc etc.

Hypocrite stupid cop.

bronclvr
03-27-2009, 07:54 AM
I looked through this Thread and didn't see this Posted, if it is, my apologies-looks like they are disciplining the Cop-

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29895162/

BroncoLifer
03-27-2009, 10:25 AM
I looked through this Thread and didn't see this Posted, if it is, my apologies-looks like they are disciplining the Cop-

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29895162/

The linked story also reports that the cop drew his gun, which I did not see mentioned previously.

Like many here I generally am pro-police, but this one is a turd. Fire him.

Florida_Bronco
03-27-2009, 11:56 AM
The linked story also reports that the cop drew his gun, which I did not see mentioned previously.

Like many here I generally am pro-police, but this one is a turd. Fire him.

In this situation, I won't fault him for drawing the gun, especially if he didn't even point it at them like he claims. From the officer's point of view, he's doing a simple traffic stop and then someone start bailing out of the car. Cops have been killed by people doing that, so I can't blame him for being prepared to defend himself.

Bronx33
03-27-2009, 12:01 PM
People say all kinds of shyt to get out of tickets/lie the cops had no proof about moats family memeber was dying it was just poor timing if you ask me moats really shouldn't have ran the light to begin with he kinda brought this on himself.

Gcver2ver3
03-27-2009, 12:07 PM
moats really shouldn't have ran the light to begin with he kinda brought this on himself.

considering the police dept dismissed his ticket...i tend to think they disagree with you...

Beantown Bronco
03-27-2009, 12:15 PM
People say all kinds of shyt to get out of tickets/lie the cops had no proof about moats family memeber was dying it

So the doctors that came out and pleaded with the cop were in on it too? Please tell me you just missed that part in the article.

Bronx33
03-27-2009, 12:20 PM
So the doctors that came out and pleaded with the cop were in on it too? Please tell me you just missed that part in the article.


No i didn't miss that but early in the stop the cop ( had no idea)

Northman
03-27-2009, 12:25 PM
People say all kinds of shyt to get out of tickets/lie the cops had no proof about moats family memeber was dying it was just poor timing if you ask me moats really shouldn't have ran the light to begin with he kinda brought this on himself.


Bingo. At the end of the day you cant control the assholes around you but you can control the decisions you make. If Moats doesnt run the light this is a non issue. So in essence he traded 45 seconds at a stoplight for a 13 minute run-a-bout with law enforcement. He took a risk and it backfired.

Tombstone RJ
03-27-2009, 12:26 PM
It sounds like a young cop who was over zealous and inconsiderate. He'll be diciplined and hopefully he'll learn to use better judgement. We've all been ticket for speeding or what not. 9 times out of 10 the officer or patrolman is gonna cut you some slack if you don't have priors or are not an azzzhole.

I feel bad for Moates. It sounds like he was doing his best to concede and go to his mother-n-law and the officer just used poor judgment.

Beantown Bronco
03-27-2009, 12:35 PM
No i didn't miss that but early in the stop the cop ( had no idea)

Aside from the part where they were already in the hospital parking lot and not on some random street just saying they were on their way to a hospital....if he really didn't trust them, he could've pulled around the corner and kept an eye on the car to make sure they didn't come right back out and take off.

Br0nc0Buster
03-27-2009, 12:38 PM
Every cop I have had to deal with has been a douchebag.

I know there are some nice ones, but where I live they seem to be in the minority

Flex Gunmetal
03-27-2009, 12:38 PM
I would be ok because i wouldnt have ran a red light. Safety first.

Feel free to add me to ignore as well, your posts have me convinced you are a moron.

SoCalBronco
03-27-2009, 12:48 PM
So, ya bring in the lawyers. But first answer me this... will the Dallas PD paying out millions of dollars bring the woman back to life? Will this cop losing his job give the family a few more minutes with their mother?

.

That's not the issue. The purpose isnt to bring her back, the purpose is PUNITIVE...to punish and disincentivize morally blameworthy conduct. Moats should be bringing out all the attorneys he can. Threaten the Department with ruin and continue to bring bad press to them. Break the department's will and force them to FIRE the officer. It's not about bringing the person back. It's about teaching them a lesson which will in turn make them more concerned about this behavior and regulate it better. If nothing is done, it incentivizes them to continue to allow this conduct to continue. The only way they change is when there is real pain brought to bear on them. Your argument is very weak. "Oh......we can't bring her back and since we can't do that, it means we should get off scot-free". No. They will pay.

Northman
03-27-2009, 12:54 PM
Feel free to add me to ignore as well, your posts have me convinced you are a moron.


Sorry princess.

Gcver2ver3
03-27-2009, 12:54 PM
Feel free to add me to ignore as well, your posts have me convinced you are a moron.

nice...

broncofan7
03-27-2009, 12:56 PM
And there you have it. Everything bad in life that happens needs someone to blame and a "remedy."

What is the remedy to this? What action can Moats possibly take that will "fix" this situation? Even the stoning you bring up would not remedy the situation. I dont see a remedy to this situation and I defy you to find one. Sure, a lawyer can be brought in, the cop loses his job, the Dallas PD pays out a handsome settlement... And it rectifies nothing. The insurance company pays out a healthy settlement, and passes that on to the PD. The PD has to expend more $ to pay for the insurance, which means something else some where else has got to give... higher taxes, pay cuts, equipment not bought, etc. And now the cop is a disgruntled, bitter unemployed guy. Now, maybe he was a complete jerk to begin with, or maybe he was a good guy who at one moment made a bad choice. On the other hand, the family can stand on the steps of the court house with a fatter wallet and say stuff like "we just wanted to see justice served" "we wanted closure", or some other canned response... but in the end it wont bring mom back, wont give them another moment with her, and wont really make them feel better about anything - except maybe (if they are inclined to this emotion) give them a momentary sense of satisfaction that they can get from revenge.

I think you missed the point of my original posting...

The officer did nothing wrong. He saw a traffic violation and issued a ticket. The officer in Colorado who issued a jay walking ticket did nothing wrong. He saw a jay walker and issued a ticket. The officer that busted the husband speeding to the hospital in the breakdown lane during rush hour did nothing wrong. These cops violated no laws and broke no rules.

The point I was making was this - people who work in the public sector deal all day, every day with "how will this affect my career" "is this something I can get sued over" "can someone else somewhere else second guess my action (which a nation is doing right now as they watch this video & make a judgement)".

This leaves folks in the public sector with only one thing to fall back on - rules, regulations, and SOPs. As a form of protection, everything they do can be backed up with a rule or regulation written down somewhere by someone else (probably a lawyer). This mentality crushes initiative. It crushes common sense.

So, again, if the attitude of the public at large and the masses continues to be one of - get a lawyer... I need to right this situation... there has to be a remedy (that of course includes a healthy pay out)... I am outraged, wronged and I need revenge - then look for events like this to increase and not decrease. Watch for public servants to increasingly - not decreasingly - perform acts that while violating no law baffle bystanders because they violate any kind of common sense known to mankind.

Then, in your opinion, has there EVER been a legitimate reason for lawsuit being brought? I understand your position, but using this as an example of a ridiculous reason for litigation is foolish. The family was unduly harrassed while rushing to the literal deathbed of a family member . The Dallas police Chief himself stated that the officer exhibited poor sensitivity and a lack of general common sense. And, since the officer is working under the powers vested in him by the city of Dallas, the city of Dallas is liable.

broncofan7
03-27-2009, 01:02 PM
No i didn't miss that but early in the stop the cop ( had no idea)

Yeah, except for the general context of the situation

1) they were in a hospital parking lot

2) 3 passengers in the car, 2 of them in the 40's -50's and Moat's wife who stated that her mother was dying once she left the vehicle. not exactly a 'posse'.......

WABronco
03-27-2009, 01:10 PM
Yes. He must've thought the obvious distress was all show too.

loborugger
03-27-2009, 01:42 PM
Then, in your opinion, has there EVER been a legitimate reason for lawsuit being brought? I understand your position, but using this as an example of a ridiculous reason for litigation is foolish. The family was unduly harrassed while rushing to the literal deathbed of a family member . The Dallas police Chief himself stated that the officer exhibited poor sensitivity and a lack of general common sense. And, since the officer is working under the powers vested in him by the city of Dallas, the city of Dallas is liable.

You are off target here. Going back to what you initially stated...

Incidents like these are great reminders as to why we have so many lawyers.....

You offered lawyers as a panacea to this problem. I was merely stating that I felt that in cases like these, they were in the long run causing more problems than they solve.

I said nothing about there being legit/non-legit reasons for this or any other event being a trial. I merely pointed out that throwing a bunch of lawyers and courtrooms into this as a "solution" or "remedy" for anything will come up short of the mark and lacking.

However, since you brought it up...

The DPD chief said the officer exhibited poor sensitivity and lacked general common sense. Since when is that a crime, or even something you can press charges on? Doesnt sound like he admitted liability to anything - unless being a blockhead is now criminal. Hell, we could have a case against Bob for exhibiting a clear lack of common sense and any number of OMers for poor sensitivity.

However, if they take it trial, do I think the family will win? Yes. Because no group of 12 people these days is not going to think that they dont deserve some kind of something. The jury will not be voting on the merits of the case - just the "ahhhh" factor.

footstepsfrom#27
03-27-2009, 01:47 PM
This does not surprise me.

Dallas has huge problems with it's police force. First of all, the city pay scale for officers is either at, or near the very bottom of any municipality in the metroplex, which means that Dallas gets the officers that other cities don't generally want. Second, the lack of resources spent has had major implications on the Dallas crime statistics, which have been the highest in the nation for nearly a decade for cities of 1 million or more population. Dallas even has trouble keeping it's police cars running. Corruption is rampant. A few years ago a group of Dallas cops were all busted for setting up sting operations and delberately targeting innocent people with fake drug busts, mainly mexicans, whom they planted cocain on.

Whether he should have detained the driver is questionable, but screaming and yelling rudely about sending him to jail and telling him to shut his mouth when Moats was in the process of giving him what he asked for...that's out of line. They're parked in the lot at the hospital, and in the process of entering it, not on a busy freeway where wasted time might have meant an accident. Where was he gonne go? He's got the SUV sitting right in front of him. He's not dodging the ticket. I think a reasonable officer would have listened to the explanation and excused the passengers to go inside without screaming at them, then maybe detained the driver long enough to write the ticket. This guy took 13 minutes...that's a long time to write a traffic ticket.

Dallas cops in general seem to have a surley attitude compared to the rest of them around here. There are good and bad cops everywhere, but Dallas has a serious problem system-wide and needs to fix it, but more than likely that won't happen any time soon.

footstepsfrom#27
03-27-2009, 01:53 PM
The DPD chief said the officer exhibited poor sensitivity and lacked general common sense. Since when is that a crime, or even something you can press charges on?
A crime? No. A civil tort capable of getting sued over? Maybe...it depends on whether the lawyer for the plaintiffs can argue he wasn't excercising the judgement expected within the course and scope of police duty or not. Whether the city loses or not is another story but I could easily see them getting sued.

Tombstone RJ
03-27-2009, 03:36 PM
That's not the issue. The purpose isnt to bring her back, the purpose is PUNITIVE...to punish and disincentivize morally blameworthy conduct. Moats should be bringing out all the attorneys he can. Threaten the Department with ruin and continue to bring bad press to them. Break the department's will and force them to FIRE the officer. It's not about bringing the person back. It's about teaching them a lesson which will in turn make them more concerned about this behavior and regulate it better. If nothing is done, it incentivizes them to continue to allow this conduct to continue. The only way they change is when there is real pain brought to bear on them. Your argument is very weak. "Oh......we can't bring her back and since we can't do that, it means we should get off scot-free". No. They will pay.

Have you ever head the expression "Two wrongs do not make a right."? It was poor judgment by the cop. I'm sure he's feeling the heat right now for this incident.

Bringing in the lawyers is what's WRONG with this country, not what is right.

Ever heard of something called forgiveness?

Moats sounds like a good guy. He got into a bad situation with a cop who used bad judgement. He still prevailed in his actions, even though he did not get to see his mother-in-law pass. In other words, he's the better man.

So why destroy that with some kind of stupid lawyer crap?

Moats already has the public's sympathy. He should just let this issue go. In the end, he'll be more at peace if he does.

Spider
03-27-2009, 05:14 PM
I think she made it in, but Moats who was driving didn't. SO he didn't get to be with mother in law, but I think she made it to the bedside and was there when she passes.

Every minute she spent dealing with Barney Fife was a crime ............Now if it had been my mother in law , the wife goes in , me and the cop go to Duncan donuts ......My treat

Spider
03-27-2009, 05:17 PM
Have you ever head the expression "Two wrongs do not make a right."? It was poor judgment by the cop. I'm sure he's feeling the heat right now for this incident.

Bringing in the lawyers is what's WRONG with this country, not what is right.

Ever heard of something called forgiveness?

Moats sounds like a good guy. He got into a bad situation with a cop who used bad judgement. He still prevailed in his actions, even though he did not get to see his mother-in-law pass. In other words, he's the better man.

So why destroy that with some kind of stupid lawyer crap?

Moats already has the public's sympathy. He should just let this issue go. In the end, he'll be more at peace if he does.

WTF ? Nooooooooooooooo you sue the piss out of them , make an example , look you **** up you pay the price , a cop is given discretion on situations , you dont want some power trip **** stick calling the shots ... Stop being a door mat and wishy washy , this cop ****ed up , and the way to ensure it doesnt happen again is hit the police dept in the pocket book .......... They will hit you there to teach you a lesson ... Live by the sword , die by the sword

broncofan7
03-27-2009, 05:41 PM
You are off target here. Going back to what you initially stated...

Incidents like these are great reminders as to why we have so many lawyers.....

You offered lawyers as a panacea to this problem. I was merely stating that I felt that in cases like these, they were in the long run causing more problems than they solve.

I said nothing about there being legit/non-legit reasons for this or any other event being a trial. I merely pointed out that throwing a bunch of lawyers and courtrooms into this as a "solution" or "remedy" for anything will come up short of the mark and lacking.

However, since you brought it up...

The DPD chief said the officer exhibited poor sensitivity and lacked general common sense. Since when is that a crime, or even something you can press charges on? Doesnt sound like he admitted liability to anything - unless being a blockhead is now criminal. Hell, we could have a case against Bob for exhibiting a clear lack of common sense and any number of OMers for poor sensitivity.

However, if they take it trial, do I think the family will win? Yes. Because no group of 12 people these days is not going to think that they dont deserve some kind of something. The jury will not be voting on the merits of the case - just the "ahhhh" factor.


1) Yes, suing the DPD is a way to cause reform--Se Socal's post

http://orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2354991&postcount=122

2) NO one said the cop should be placed under arrest for his actions. But his actions caused distress to this family and his actions were beyond how a prudent and responsible officer would have behaved. I hope that the Moats family seeks a legal remedy--that is how adults wage their battles. How you can contend that Moats should just 'sit back and take it' is beyond me.....

TDmvp
03-27-2009, 11:45 PM
After seeing the long version of the video of this whole thing I think that cop is a total punk ... could he be more of a condescending prick...

No common sense . No Class . No clue ...

I'm just to the right of Stalin when it comes to crime ... But this was lame .

Meck77
03-28-2009, 12:04 AM
Cops are getting more aggressive with traffic violations across the country. Tax revenues are down for all those city budgets.

The thing is Karma will come around for that cop. It always does.

cutthemdown
03-28-2009, 12:27 AM
The cop was a dick but what else is new. Still I stick by saying he shouldn't be fired. Maybe written up but not fired.

As far as him being sued I don't see it. There is no case. They ran a red light, no one was injured, damages like I didn't spend another 1-2 minutes with my dying loved one, or I failed to get to bedside, are not IMO actionable. You won't get a dime IMO.

Some one said to go for punitive damages but its just not going to happen.

Spider
03-28-2009, 12:29 AM
The cop was a dick but what else is new. Still I stick by saying he shouldn't be fired. Maybe written up but not fired.

As far as him being sued I don't see it. There is no case. They ran a red light, no one was injured, damages like I didn't spend another 1-2 minutes with my dying loved one, or I failed to get to bedside, are not IMO actionable. You won't get a dime IMO.

Some one said to go for punitive damages but its just not going to happen.

So I guess suggesting a dual with butter knives at 60 feet is totally out of the question ?

atomicbloke
03-28-2009, 01:17 AM
The cop should just be reassigned to some other section of the force where he is unlikely to come in to much contact with citizens.

Archer81
03-28-2009, 01:27 AM
Sucks for Moats. Cop was way out of line.


:Broncos:

HEAV
03-29-2009, 01:21 PM
Zach Thomas: Same Dallas officer mistreated my wife

By TODD ARCHER / The Dallas Morning News
tarcher@dallasnews.com

Maritza Thomas, the wife of NFL linebacker Zach Thomas, saw a familiar face as she watched the video of Officer Robert Powell detaining Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats as he and his family rushed to a hospital to see a dying loved one. That face was Powell's.

On July 27, 2008, while her husband was at training camp with the Cowboys in Oxnard, Calif., Maritza Thomas was pulled over by Powell for an illegal U-turn near NorthPark Center.

Maritza Thomas was issued five tickets by Powell, four of which were later dismissed. Thomas was handcuffed, placed in the back of a police cruiser, spent about three hours in the Dallas County Jail and was threatened with the possibility of spending the night behind bars

"This in no way compares to what happened to Ryan Moats and his family," said Zach Thomas, who played for the Cowboys last season and is now a free agent. "But we wanted to tell our story, not knowing how many others have been affected by Officer Powell. We know the vast majority of the Dallas police force are good and professional people, but this guy just seems excessive."

The charges that were dropped were failure to show proof of insurance, running a red light, having an improper address on a driver's license and not having a registration sticker on the windshield. She accepted deferred adjudication for the illegal U-turn charge, and her record will be cleared next month.

In total, Maritza Thomas, who is Hispanic, was detained roughly five hours.

"This situation never should've happened," said Maritza Thomas' attorney, Brody Shanklin. "Unless extraordinary circumstances exist, no person should be arrested for a Class C citation. In this case, it was an example of Officer Powell being overzealous and exerting his authority in a manner that he never should have."

Bob Gorsky, Powell's attorney, questioned the timing of Thomas' allegations, saying she had not complained about her arrest until the Moats incident became public.

"After her arrest, she may have mentioned that her husband was a football player, but that played no role in her arrest or the disposition of the case," Gorsky said.

"I do understand that an arrest on multiple traffic charges happens often and is absolutely proper under these circumstances," Gorsky said. "Often, when there are multiple charges, an arrest made and bond posted, some of the charges from a single event are later dropped."

According to Maritza Thomas, a pharmacist with no prior criminal record, Powell would not accept the explanation of where the proper paperwork was before she was taken to jail. Her mother, Teresa Lozano, who was making her first trip to Dallas and speaks little English, was forced to ride with the tow truck driver when the car was impounded. She later posted bail for her daughter's release.

"My mom was begging for him to let her go to the apartment that was five minutes away to get the paperwork," Maritza Thomas said. "He unbuckled his holster, and she got scared."

The Thomases said Powell was dismissive, but they did not allege that he used abusive language. There is no dash-cam video available of the incident, but the police report lists the five citations and confirms that Thomas was taken to jail.


Judge C. Victor Lander, the city of Dallas' chief municipal judge, said under Texas law a person can be arrested for any Class C misdemeanor citation except speeding and having an open container.

When an officer gives someone a traffic citation, it is in lieu of arrest, Lander said. The officer does have the option of making an arrest, he said.

"It really is giving the individual a break by issuing them a ticket. But it's a break most people get," Lander said

He called it "relatively rare" for an officer to arrest someone on the spot. That's because it's time consuming to take someone to jail and fill out the paperwork, he said. Usually, an arrest occurs if the person has a warrant for unpaid traffic tickets, Lander said.

When an officer does decide to make an arrest for a minor traffic offense, it's usually because of how the person behaved during the traffic stop, Lander said.

"The defense bar refers to it as contempt of cop," Lander said. "If the officer was offended by something the person said or did, they may arrest them."

At the time, the Thomases considered filing a complaint against Powell but declined, "because we didn't want to cause a stir," said her husband, Zach Thomas, believing it "was maybe a guy having a bad day." However, they plan to file one now.

Complaints can be made more than 60 days following an incident in person or in writing with the internal affairs department. Maritza Thomas said she would fax a letter this week. The Thomases said they are not seeking money.

Sr. Cpl. Kevin Janse, a Dallas police spokesman, declined to comment on Thomas' allegation.

However, he said police would investigate all complaints submitted to the department about Powell.

"If she feels Officer Powell did something wrong, we'll investigate it," Janse said. "We are not going to go back and track everything this officer has done," he said. "If people come to us with concerns, we'll look into it."

The department is investigating Powell's actions on the night of the Moats traffic stop, as well as any other questionable encounters involving the officer, Janse said.

Maritza Thomas said, "I hope that by telling my story that it will help prevent situations like this from happening in the future."

Powell issued an apology Friday for his actions in which Moats and his mother-in-law's father were unable to see Jonetta Collinsworth before she died of breast cancer this month. Powell has been put on paid leave.

With the grim news of Collinsworth's health, Moats, his wife, Tamishia, and her grandfather rushed to Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano, rolling through a red light that prompted Powell to turn on his lights.

Outside the emergency room, Powell detained Moats for 13 minutes, and Collinsworth died before everybody could say goodbye
----------------


Repeat offend-errrr... I mean officer. Look like the rednick picked the wrong people to power trip on.

Florida_Bronco
03-29-2009, 02:56 PM
This guy sounds like one of the officers who works traffic here for the Largo PD.

I can understand the tickets, but the arrest was way out of line.