Red Sox Nation Unite and Take Over!

[football idiot]

Just wanted somewhere to post this, courtesy of ESPN page 2's Dumbness Memorandium....


Dumbest team: SO the Florida Marlins are purchased by an art dealer who had run the Montreal Expos even further into the ground. Who hires his son-in-law as team president. Who hires a GM who reportedly gets ticked off at the book "Moneyball" because it dares question conventional baseball wisdom. Who trades his best player, Preston Wilson, to the Rockies, and then somehow ends up paying Mike Hampton $38 million to pitch for the Braves. Which somehow frees up money to sign Pudge Rodriguez. Who has a reputation for not working well with young pitchers. Who then see their staff leader -- A.J. Burnett -- blow his arm out. Who is replaced by some callow rookie with barely any innings above Class A. Man, was all that really dumb. Especially hiring that old guy to manage.

[Hogan11]

Screw Loria and his championship.

The guy is a slimeball just this side of Al Davis...and MLB is about on the same level as Championship Wrestling anymore....

I find it very hard to care about what is essentially an eight team and the rest fodder league.

I love baseball, but not like this.

I'm gonna start following minor league or better yet some independent league....any baseball that is in a purer form than the farce MLB has become.

[FADERPROOF]

You're an Expos fan, you've been following minor league baseball for quite some time now :P

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by DenFan38
You're an Expos fan, you've been following minor league baseball for quite some time now :P

Hey screw you man....4321~

I would wish similar troubles upon your favorite team but I'm not that cruel and you'd never be able to hang for the duration like the hardcore faithful have....save your stories of the Cubs & The Red Sox curses...the Montreal Expos are the most starcrossed franchise in the history of professional sports bar none....it takes tremendous inner strength to continue to endure with a team as damned as that one is.

BTW, they delt Vazquez to the Yanks today for Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera and Randy Choate.

Johnson's a risk due to the wrists but if he's healthy, this guy is pefect for us. A young hitter with good patience at the plate and a bit of pop. If we get Vladdy back, we have 5 guys who should hit above average for their positions.

Of course MLB will make sure that Vlad returning to MTL never happens....but Johnson plugs the hole at 1B effectively enough.

Rivera is a decent player and can be a good player, he picked it up in the 2nd half last year as a part time player.... his defense is excellent, his arm is no vlad, but he does have a good arm....

Let's put it this way, the kid plays very hard and hustles....he'll work.

I also like getting Choate. It lets us cut Eischen's 1 Million option loose. The guy's got pretty good career numbers...walks are a bit high but he doesn't give up HRs and his WHIP is right around where you'd like it to be.

With Vlad all but gone, that money saved by the deal will be targeted at a 3B....losing Vazquez doesn't devestate the rotation any unless El Duque doesn't return or Livan is delt....

The deal isn't the disaster the Colon deal was for MTL by a long shot and could be a very, very good one for MTL depending upon how Johnson pans out (health and numbers-wise).

Hey, when you're owned by the league's other 29 teams (in a clear conflict of interest if'n ever there was one) you expect nothing for the decent players you have....this amounts to one of the best deals for MTL in years....somehow, I don't think MLB will stand for it very long and force them to deal more players by undercutting the Expos budget.

MLB being the farce that it is, it wouldn't surprise me any.

[FADERPROOF]

Save it, I think you're severely underestimating my measures of my team faith. I don't get how the loser teams fans like the Tigers, Expos, Brewers act like they have gone through all this suffering and that if your team doesn't suck then it's not that hard to be a fan of that team and one losing season could crumble the teams fanbase.

That's great, try having the 2nd highest payroll and not making the playoffs for 4 straight years but being so close most of the time, while the rest of the MLB redicules us for being the most over-rated team for every single year that we don't get to the playoffs, all because of that payroll, all while being rediculed for having fake Hollywood fans" that only show up when the team is winning and is "come late, leave early" type fans that really don't care about the team that much.

Yeah, try being a true fan through all that. Not looking for sympathy, just showing that just because my team doesn't have to play 22 games in Puerto Rico and the talks of relocation or contraction comes up every year doesn't mean that I'm not a hardcore fan and that there isn't any pain in being a fan of the team that I follow.

[sutoazul]

Why don't you follow some winter leagues in Dominican Rep., Puerto Rico, Mexico, or Venezuela. I know their leagues are very competitive and the level of talent is huge!!

here's a website (is in spanish but what the heck):
www.beisboldominicano.com
www.ligadelpacifico.com.mx
www.lvbp.com
I couldn't find the one from the Puerto Rican league.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by DenFan38
Save it, I think you're severely underestimating my measures of my team faith. I don't get how the loser teams fans like the Tigers, Expos, Brewers act like they have gone through all this suffering and that if your team doesn't suck then it's not that hard to be a fan of that team and one losing season could crumble the teams fanbase.

That's great, try having the 2nd highest payroll and not making the playoffs for 4 straight years but being so close most of the time, while the rest of the MLB redicules us for being the most over-rated team for every single year that we don't get to the playoffs, all because of that payroll, all while being rediculed for having fake Hollywood fans" that only show up when the team is winning and is "come late, leave early" type fans that really don't care about the team that much.

Yeah, try being a true fan through all that. Not looking for sympathy, just showing that just because my team doesn't have to play 22 games in Puerto Rico and the talks of relocation or contraction comes up every year doesn't mean that I'm not a hardcore fan and that there isn't any pain in being a fan of the team that I follow.

I'd trade that "pain" of yours anyday for what Expos fans have to endure year after year...

It's soooo very easy being a "Big Eight" fan...you never have to worry about relocation or fire sales.....just a joke of a luxury tax.

So unless your team is hanging by a thread to it's very existance every year, forced to trade it's stars because of cash restraints, had it's previous ownerships run it into the ground for 10 years eroding the fanbase to the absolute minimum..not to mention not even getting a sniff of a post season for 23 years (the longest in professional sports BTW) then you couldn't possibly have any idea of what an Expos fan's "pain" really is much less try to tell me how very hard it is to be a Dodgers fan.

Sorry DenFan, there is no comparison.....you'll lose that arguement and lose it badly every single time.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by sutoazul
Why don't you follow some winter leagues in Dominican Rep., Puerto Rico, Mexico, or Venezuela. I know their leagues are very competitive and the level of talent is huge!!

here's a website (is in spanish but what the heck):
www.beisboldominicano.com
www.ligadelpacifico.com.mx
www.lvbp.com
I couldn't find the one from the Puerto Rican league.


To be honest, I'm not really concerned with talent level when looking at independent leagues....as long as they are competitive and are as far away from the MLB influence as possible..I'd be up for it.

They have a Pony League team in my town that's ok...except they're named the Dodgers ugh!~ But they play their hearts out and are entertaining to watch....maybe I'll just stay local after MTL finally ceases to exist....been seriously thinking about it.

[FADERPROOF]

It wasn't a comparison of the Dodgers compared to the Expos, I was pointing out the whole dedication aspect that you brought into this.

I'll give you credit for sticking with the team through thick and thing, I just didn't like the idea of you thinking that I wouldn't do the same for my team.

[Hogan11]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DenFan38
It wasn't a comparison of the Dodgers compared to the Expos, I was pointing out the whole dedication aspect that you brought into this.

You're right with the dedication thing...perhaps that wasn't fair of me to bring that up, sorry about that....although you must admit, it is much easier being a fan of a larger market than a smaller one in MLB.

I'll give you credit for sticking with the team through thick and thing, I just didn't like the idea of you thinking that I wouldn't do the same for my team.

Where the Expos are concerned ...the shirkers, half-hearted and bandwagoners left a long time ago.

In all sports...the team you support is the brotherhood you support.....you gotta sink and swim with the team....till death do us part....that type of thing.

I have no doubt that you feel the same way about the teams you support.

[FADERPROOF]

It is honorable to stick with one team and keep them as your team throughout everything, as you have for the Expos. It's been a team in turmoil for quite sometime now, and most of the fans have said **** it with them it seems. I understand that it's easier to be a fan of a larger market team, such as the Dodgers, and that it is more painful as an Expos fan than a Dodgers fan, but I've had to deal with some things also, but still remain a fan.

I know all about the bandwagon, Dodger fans are notorious for being one, which sucks because I'm actually a true Dodger blue but get mixed up in the whine and cheese Hollywood crowd that shows up in the 3rd inning and leaves by the 8th, once the team gets hot or is showing that they are a playoff contending team, sucks to be labeled as that.

That's the main reason for my rant, which I do apologize for, I just get a hot head when someone questions the dedication I have to the Dodgers, all because the rep. of Dodger fans, or at least the ones that live in LA and go to the games.

[FADERPROOF]

Besides, I've been a Nuggets fan my whole life, I know what suffering is :)

[-Slap-]

I grew up rooting for the Dodgers. In fact, I cried like a baby when they got spanked by Charlie Finley's Oakland A's in the 1974 World Series. In retrospect, I'm glad Oakland won. They were a much cooler team and that marked the end of the last true dynasty in major league baseball. Unfortunately, Finley had no money to pay anybody because that amazing team couldn't draw flies to the Oakland Mausoleum.

I think I stopped being a Dodger fan shortly after I saw them beat the Yankees in the World Series in 1981. A lot of factors contributed to this decision, but I was happy for them when they upset Oakland in the 1989 World Series. I can understand how the Dodger organization rubs people the wrong way . They definitely see themselves as above everyone else and tireless self promoters like Tommy Lasorda become tiresome after awhile. I probably went to about 200 games at Chavez Ravine and Dodger fans have got to be about as bad as it gets. Most of the true fans are sitting in the bleachers or the nosebleeds.

I have no team affiliation anymore. All I care about is winning money on fantasy baseball. I guess I've become a pretty big Mark Prior fan, which, technically, makes me a Cubs fan, at least every fifth day. That's pretty depressing.

[Hogan11]

I'll never forgive the Dodgers for 1981.....

and I even liked Rick Monday when he was with the Cubs...

Well, I won't have to worry about all this for much longer I suppose....

Word out at this time is that they let Vazquez go in order to throw matching money at Vlad...who rather stay in MTL, but Baltimore is making it hard for him to do so...

No one is willing to break the bank on him...so MTL actually has a chance at getting him back......Omar feels good about it but it's just hard to believe from an Expos fan view.

[-Slap-]

It would be cool if Vlad stayed in Montreal.

I'm starting to think this A-Rod to the BoSox thing is going to happen.

[Evenrude]

I hate the thought of Nomah being in another uniform..... maybe they could move him to second....;D

[-Slap-]

He would probably be dealt to the Dodgers or Angels.

[FADERPROOF]

define hypocricy: Last year, Theo Eipstein calls the New York yankees the "evil empire" for buying up all the talent and buying themselves a winning team. This year, the Red Sox have picked up Curt Schilling, are in talks of bringing in A-Rod, if it goes through they'd trade Nomar for a good OF and/or 2B,and are looking into Keith Foulke as a true closer.

What's really killing baseball is this. Cubs have made moves, Marlins are signing a few players back, Phillies are making some real nice moves, but nothing is talked about this. All eyes are on the Red Sox and Yankees and their little arms race to 1 up each other. Goes to show how many teams have a realistic chance of winning the WS, sure there were the Angels of two years ago, but the Yankees and Red Sox are making sure that a blue-collared hard-working team built from the farm and good trades and decisions never gets that chance to win it all again.

[Hogan11]

MLB has done it again and has forced the Expos to cut Vlad free..

On a day that the Grandmaster runs all over the Chiefs and I'm feelin' good, this news comes in late....can we say collusion ?

Owned by the league I guess it was foolish to believe that they might let MTL have an honest shot at retaining quite possibly the greatest player ever in franchise history and the glue to the team's possible WC run....

God I hate MLB....they've now ensured MTL of a last place season with under 3000 in attendance per game.

It's getting real easy to leave this whole farce behind once and for all.

Bastards.

[FADERPROOF]

And guess what...Yankees have reportedly talked with Vlad's agent about coming to the Bronx.

Apparently, Gary Sheffield pissed King George off by asking for 3 million more dollars to complete the deal(yeah, like 3 million more is really going to burn a hole in Steinbrenners pockets.) So the Yankees are now shifting toward Guerrero as a possible RF instead of Sheff.

[Hogan11]

Baltimore is hot on Vlad and Javy Lopez......

I really find it hard to care about it all anymore really.

[sutoazul]

shiat!!!! I forgot about Vlad!!, when I heard the news about Sheff not being sign yet I got extremely happy. Oh Gee, I hope they don't get Vlad. Specially if the A-rod deal doesnt' go throuh.

[Hogan11]

Orioles plan to be busy at winter meetings

By DAVID GINSBURG, AP Sports Writer
December 9, 2003
BALTIMORE (AP) -- The Baltimore Orioles are preparing for a shopping spree, one that could land them Vladimir Guerrero and Javy Lopez.

There's no guarantee that either player will end up in Baltimore, but the Orioles will try their best to sign high-profile free agents.

``I think our idea is to make the club as strong as we can this year, then build on that,'' vice president Jim Beattie said Tuesday.

ADVERTISEMENT


No longer burdened by the hefty contracts of Albert Belle and Scott Erickson, the Orioles will arrive at the winter meetings Friday in New Orleans with an open wallet and an open mind.

``We're very serious about improving the ballclub, and we have the resources to do it,'' Beattie said.

At the top of the list is Guerrero, 27, who was not offered salary arbitration by the Montreal Expos.

``You put Vladimir Guerrero in any lineup in baseball, and he improves the club tremendously,'' Beattie said. ``He's a great player; he does things offensively, he does things defensively, he plays with a lot of intensity. He's a tremendous athlete to watch.''

Beattie declined to specify exactly which players the Orioles are pursuing, but he cited catcher, outfielder and 3-4-5 hitters among the team's needs.

Guerrero, an outfielder, and Lopez, a catcher, would fit perfectly in a lineup that ranked 11th among the 14 AL teams in home runs. Lopez hit 43 homers for Atlanta last season and Guerrero had 25 home runs along with a .330 batting average.

Baltimore also is interested in shortstop Miguel Tejada.

``There is a handful of guys that are priorities for us,'' he said. ``We're not going to sign all of them, but we do have a good amount of money to improve the club.''

No one would blame the Orioles for being fearful of offering a long-term contract to Guerrero or anyone else, given that Belle and Erickson didn't reach the end of their pacts before injuries forced them out.

But Beattie wouldn't dismiss the idea of offering a long deal, saying, ``We're not cutting anything out. Six years? I'd rather not, but every player and situation is different.''

The Orioles may not be good enough to overtake New York and Boston in the AL East, but it won't be for lack a lack of resources.

``In the end, there will be a feeling that this is a much improved ballclub,'' Beattie said. ``I just don't know it could be anything but, given the situation and the opportunities we have.''

[Hogan11]

DenFan.....Kevin Brown for Jeff Weaver??

:o

[FADERPROOF]

Originally posted by RHogan
DenFan.....Kevin Brown for Jeff Weaver??

:o

And management will assure Dodger fans that this move puts us in better position to win this year. ::)

Trade our 2nd best pitcher for a scrub that couldn't even make a 5 man rotation for most of the year, yeah LA is doing all they can to make this winning ballclub ::)

We get 2 minor leaguers though, they'll certainly help our playoff push this year, while in double A ::)

[-Slap-]

Originally posted by DenFan38
And guess what...Yankees have reportedly talked with Vlad's agent about coming to the Bronx.

Apparently, Gary Sheffield pissed King George off by asking for 3 million more dollars to complete the deal(yeah, like 3 million more is really going to burn a hole in Steinbrenners pockets.) So the Yankees are now shifting toward Guerrero as a possible RF instead of Sheff.

I've heard Guerrero doesn't really like New York.

I'm kind of concerned about the Sheffield situation. I hate his guts and I'm always hoping he'll land on a team I can root against. That was easy in Atlanta and it would be easy in New York.

[-Slap-]

Originally posted by DenFan38


And management will assure Dodger fans that this move puts us in better position to win this year. ::)

Trade our 2nd best pitcher for a scrub that couldn't even make a 5 man rotation for most of the year, yeah LA is doing all they can to make this winning ballclub ::)

We get 2 minor leaguers though, they'll certainly help our playoff push this year, while in double A ::)

Jeff Weaver relaxing in the off season.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by -Slap-


I've heard Guerrero doesn't really like New York.

I'm kind of concerned about the Sheffield situation. I hate his guts and I'm always hoping he'll land on a team I can root against. That was easy in Atlanta and it would be easy in New York.

I feel bad for Vlad actually...you know the guy has been totally manipulated by his agents.

So now, after turning down the MTL deal that would've been best for him (he liked it there, the lack of media attention, etc.) and the game itself, he finds himself with little options because no one is willing to break the bank on him because of his back and the way the market is now.

His choices are Baltimore or NYY.....it'll make him richer no doubt but it will also make him a lot less happier to be that shy superstar in a large media market with all the attention he doesn't want.....which is kinda sad because he is the model personality in pro sports today IMO. I can only wish more were like him in that way.

And forget about Scumbag signing him....he doesn't have the cash to offer anything more than what MTL did....the guy's agents want the big payday for him, so it's strictly large market time for Guerrero.

[Mightysmurf]

go yaknees.

[Rock Chalk]

GO ASTROS!

Can you believe Petitte signed and now Clemens is thinking about it? If only they kept Billy Wagner the 'Stros would have the best pitching staff in the league.

[FADERPROOF]

Originally posted by AlecRaenos
GO ASTROS!

Can you believe Petitte signed and now Clemens is thinking about it? If only they kept Billy Wagner the 'Stros would have the best pitching staff in the league.

Next to the Oakland A's you mean.

[Bronco LB 59]

The Red Sox just signed All Star closer Keith Foulke to a three year, 21 million dollar contract. What will the Yankees do next?

Now the Red Sox don't have to screw around with their gasoline can carrying pseudo closers in Scott Williamson, Byung-Hyun Kim and Mike Timlin.

[Bronco LB 59]

Originally posted by DenFan38


Next to the Oakland A's you mean.


The Athletics have a chance to be consistently good like the Atlanta Braves for the next decade if Billy Beane locks up the Big Three. He has shown the ability to replace offensive stars like Jason Giambi and not have the team miss a beat. Although, Miguel Tejada's loss won't be easily replaceable even though Bobby Crosby is a highly regarded prospect.

The Athletics should never have a problem with generating offense because their scouting does the best job of finding polished hitters with plate discipline.

[Bronco LB 59]

Originally posted by RHogan


I feel bad for Vlad actually...you know the guy has been totally manipulated by his agents.

So now, after turning down the MTL deal that would've been best for him (he liked it there, the lack of media attention, etc.) and the game itself, he finds himself with little options because no one is willing to break the bank on him because of his back and the way the market is now.

His choices are Baltimore or NYY.....it'll make him richer no doubt but it will also make him a lot less happier to be that shy superstar in a large media market with all the attention he doesn't want.....which is kinda sad because he is the model personality in pro sports today IMO. I can only wish more were like him in that way.

And forget about Scumbag signing him....he doesn't have the cash to offer anything more than what MTL did....the guy's agents want the big payday for him, so it's strictly large market time for Guerrero.


I couldn't agree with you more on Vlad.

Personally, I wanted to see him play his whole career in Montreal because I am a traditionalist that loves to see HOFs spend their entire career in one city. George Brett, Robin Yount, Cal Ripken Jr., Al Kaline....My favorite team is the San Diego Padres and I am glad Gwynn spent his entire career here even though he never won a championship.

Vlad will probably end up in Baltimore and it's not a bad place to play, it is a traditional baseball town with a loyal fanbase. The bad part about Baltimore is Peter Angelos. He like scumbag is one of the worst owners in baseball. Angelos spends money recklessly on mediocre veterans. Has a terrible farm system that once was the envy of baseball during the Earl Weaver days. Vlad is going to waste years of his life toiling in mediocrity in Baltimore while the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays (J.P. Riccardi is a fine GM) consistently finish higher in the standings.

[Mightysmurf]

Originally posted by MightySmurf
go yaknees.

Just kidding.

I couldent care less about who does what in baseball.

[FADERPROOF]

Originally posted by Bronco LB 52



The Athletics have a chance to be consistently good like the Atlanta Braves for the next decade if Billy Beane locks up the Big Three. He has shown the ability to replace offensive stars like Jason Giambi and not have the team miss a beat. Although, Miguel Tejada's loss won't be easily replaceable even though Bobby Crosby is a highly regarded prospect.

The Athletics should never have a problem with generating offense because their scouting does the best job of finding polished hitters with plate discipline.

I agree, the Tejada loss could be their worst loss in recent history, even moreso than Jason Giambi.

Their big 3 will become the big 4 soon, Rich Harden showed a lot of promise during the 2nd helf of last season, and will only continue to get better. Barry Zito had somewhat of an off year last year, and Mulder being on the DL for the playoffs was the only thing keeping them from the 2nd round of the playoffs, along with Hudson injuring his finger in the 4th game and being taken out in the 2nd inning.

I'm sure the A's will do just fine next year still, even with Tejada and Foulke gone. Billy Beane thinks closers are only good for one year, and that's why he has changed it so much, and he's been right so far with the play of Billy Koch now. I'm just curious as to who the A's will bring in as the closer now with Gordon in NY, possibly move Rincon or Bradford to the closer job if they cannot find any takers.

[-Slap-]

Originally posted by RHogan


I feel bad for Vlad actually...you know the guy has been totally manipulated by his agents.

So now, after turning down the MTL deal that would've been best for him (he liked it there, the lack of media attention, etc.) and the game itself, he finds himself with little options because no one is willing to break the bank on him because of his back and the way the market is now.

His choices are Baltimore or NYY.....it'll make him richer no doubt but it will also make him a lot less happier to be that shy superstar in a large media market with all the attention he doesn't want.....which is kinda sad because he is the model personality in pro sports today IMO. I can only wish more were like him in that way.

And forget about Scumbag signing him....he doesn't have the cash to offer anything more than what MTL did....the guy's agents want the big payday for him, so it's strictly large market time for Guerrero.

I disagree with most of what you're saying here. I think you underestimate the young man. I don't believe Vladimir gets manipulated by anybody. He holds his own counsel and the only person who's input he values is his mother's.

Baltimore wouldn't be a bad place for him. There would actually be fewer distractions there than the currect circus atmosphere surrounding the Montreal franchise. Beyond that, Guerrero is more immune to media distractions than most players. After awhile reporters get tired of hearing "no comment" in Spanish and they move on to more entertaining prospects.

[-Slap-]

The deal Montreal offered him was $70 for five years, but it was severely backloaded. He will do much better than that elsewhere, even with the diminished market.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by -Slap-
Guerrero is more immune to media distractions than most players. After awhile reporters get tired of hearing "no comment" in Spanish and they move on to more entertaining prospects.

Strongly disagree.

They'll never leave him alone in a large market...in MTL he enjoyed not being noticed and hounded....it'll be interesting to see how he handles it all.

[FADERPROOF]

Go Carl Everett!!!

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by DenFan38
Go Carl Everett!!!

I see that he signed with MTL.

Nothing like replacing one of the class individuals in pro sports with an azzhole like Everett....I'll take the production, what other choice do I have?

They delt Mike Barrett to the A's for a PTNL.....Barrett was a great guy and I'll miss him behind the plate....they can't just go with Schnider back there....could Pudge end up there??

A long shot I know....they're still talking to Juan Gone as well...I'll take any combo of Juan Gone/Pudge & Everett as a replacement for Vlad....even with that, there's a huge hole at 3b to cover yet.

[-Slap-]

They say Florida is talking to Guerrero now. Hogan will lose his mind if Vlad pulls on a Marlin uniform in February....... ;)

Apparently the ARod for ManRam deal is going to happen. The BoSox are also talking to the Dodgers about a deal involving Garciaparra. Obviously any Nomar deal will be contingent upon the other trade happening.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by -Slap-
They say Florida is talking to Guerrero now. Hogan will lose his mind if Vlad pulls on a Marlin uniform in February....... ;)

Nah, not really...it just validates the RICO suit even more though if it indeed happens, doesn't it? Talk about setting yourself up :o

Scumbag doesn't have the revenue streams to do it anyway...or he won't have them to sustain the contract if he indeed does sign Vlad (expect a 1 to 2 year stint if it happens). The Marlins will come back down to Earth and remain in the lower middle of the division..the casual, bandwagon fans will evaporate over a season or two and players will continue to fall by the wayside...etc. No way will they even compete next year.

I firmly believe Angelos snags him and Lopez both to long term deals.

[FADERPROOF]

Originally posted by -Slap-
They say Florida is talking to Guerrero now. Hogan will lose his mind if Vlad pulls on a Marlin uniform in February....... ;)

Apparently the ARod for ManRam deal is going to happen. The BoSox are also talking to the Dodgers about a deal involving Garciaparra. Obviously any Nomar deal will be contingent upon the other trade happening.

God that be great. Alex Cora is a decent SS, but more of a role player.

Slap, you're in Las Vegas correct? Curious if you have any news on the 51's and especially on Joe Thurston. I hope this year is his big move to the majors, he's teeters the line the past couple seasons, and I've heard the hype of him, curious if any local news has come out that notable about L.A.'s AAA team.

Going from a Romano-Cora-Izturis 3 way dance at SS and 2B to a Garciaparra-Thurston SS-2B combo sounds real nice to me.

[Hogan11]

NO TO GUERRERO

Marlins management continues to strongly deny rumors they are pursuing free agent outfielder Vladimir Guerrero. The free agent outfielder could command $15 million or more a year -- and the Marlins have saved less than $12 million after recent dealings.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/baseball/7501701.htm

Doesn't look to me as if Scumbag is in the running....

[-Slap-]

Originally posted by DenFan38


God that be great. Alex Cora is a decent SS, but more of a role player.

Slap, you're in Las Vegas correct? Curious if you have any news on the 51's and especially on Joe Thurston. I hope this year is his big move to the majors, he's teeters the line the past couple seasons, and I've heard the hype of him, curious if any local news has come out that notable about L.A.'s AAA team.

Going from a Romano-Cora-Izturis 3 way dance at SS and 2B to a Garciaparra-Thurston SS-2B combo sounds real nice to me.

Joe Thurston really regressed last season. A couple years ago it looked like the main thing standing in his way was a lack of plate discipline. He doesn't strike out much, but he doesn't walk nearly enough for a guy who's supposed to hit at the top of the order.

Last year it was still practically impossible to walk him and his offensive numbers fell off in every category. Most distressing was that he forgot how to steal bases. Two years ago he had 22 steals against 9 caught stealing, which is not a great percentage, but its acceptable. According to last season's stats, he only had one successful steal in 13 attempts. I thought that had to be a misprint, but I checked multiple sources. What the hell happened there?

He's still only 25, so there's room for improvement, but his career is headed in the wrong direction right now. Without the stolen bases, there's not much special about him.

[-Slap-]

Originally posted by DenFan38


Curious if you have any news on the 51's

2003 Las Vegas 51's (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/la/minor_leagues/la_minor_league_stats.jsp?club_context=mlb&minor_id=PCLLAS)

[Bronco LB 59]

Originally posted by -Slap-


Joe Thurston really regressed last season. A couple years ago it looked like the main thing standing in his way was a lack of plate discipline. He doesn't strike out much, but he doesn't walk nearly enough for a guy who's supposed to hit at the top of the order.

Last year it was still practically impossible to walk him and his offensive numbers fell off in every category. Most distressing was that he forgot how to steal bases. Two years ago he had 22 steals against 9 caught stealing, which is not a great percentage, but its acceptable. According to last season's stats, he only had one successful steal in 13 attempts. I thought that had to be a misprint, but I checked multiple sources. What the hell happened there?

He's still only 25, so there's room for improvement, but his career is headed in the wrong direction right now. Without the stolen bases, there's not much special about him.


Considering that he played in high altitude Las Vegas, there is no excuse for the dropoff in offensive numbers. Dodger Stadium is only going to get worse being the worst hitters park in baseball.

I just got my issue of Baseball America in the mail and Thurston is not even listed in the Top Ten of the Los Angeles Dodgers prospects.

[Evenrude]

Looks like Nomar is going to the White Sox (http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-nomar173588313dec17,0,920955.story?coll=ny-sports-span-headlines)

I also heard that the Red Sox are looking at trading for Zito.

[Bronco LB 59]

I hope Nomar ends up in Boston.

Being a Padre fan, I hate the Dodgers (almost as much as the Raiders) and don't want to see them get either Nomar or Magglio.

[-Slap-]

If this all breaks right for Boston, they might wind up losing Nomar and Ramirez while gaining ARod and Magglio Ordonez. That's a serious upgrade. Add that to the Schilling and Foulke acquisitions and I can't see how this team doesn't run away with the Al East.

[-Slap-]

Red Sox players are going to be gold in fantasy leagues next season. Every single one of them.

ARod might have the first legitimate 70 homer season in history, aiming at that Green Monster 81 games a year.

[PatsWin2002]

This deal HAS TO happen. I wouldn't wan't to be in charge of damage control if it doesn't.

The player's union sucks. I wanna celebrate a WS in my lifetime. Then they can blow up baseball and start over.

We're now guilty of much of what I've hated the Yankees for....buying everything. But at least we're beating them at their own twisted game. Theo is driving George nuts.

However, if I was a Royals or Twins fan......I'd just give up. It isn't fair and I'll be the first to say so.

[FADERPROOF]

Originally posted by Bronco LB 52
I hope Nomar ends up in Boston.

Being a Padre fan, I hate the Dodgers (almost as much as the Raiders) and don't want to see them get either Nomar or Magglio.

Don't worry, we wont, cause that means we'll be bettering our team, something we don't plan on doing for some reason.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by PatsWin2002
This deal HAS TO happen. I wouldn't wan't to be in charge of damage control if it doesn't.

The player's union sucks. I wanna celebrate a WS in my lifetime. Then they can blow up baseball and start over.

We're now guilty of much of what I've hated the Yankees for....buying everything. But at least we're beating them at their own twisted game. Theo is driving George nuts.

However, if I was a Royals or Twins fan......I'd just give up. It isn't fair and I'll be the first to say so.

That's why it's a half-hearted exercise for me anymore.....it's now like rubbernecking...I know it's an ugly scene and that I should just walk away especially since the team I follow has absolutely no chance in hell...but ...I ...just.....can't help but to look on.

[Hogan11]

Found this to be amusing......

Expos expanding the evil empire
By Eric Neel
Page 2 columnist


It didn't use to be this way. It used to be they were Les Plucky, Les Charming, Les Expos. It used to be they were everyone's sweet, lovable underdogs.


Those days are gone.


These are the days when rumors swirl that even the cuddly Youppi! is on the trading block.


These are the days when Omar Minaya, like Saruman building a dark army for the battle of Rohan, is taking the team in a sinister new direction.


It started slowly at first. Most people didn't notice.


The revelation that the Expos had gone bad even floored Youppi!, Montreal's mascot.
First, there was Orlando Hernandez.


Then Nick Johnson, Randy Choate, and Juan Rivera.


On Monday, he claimed infielder Andy Fox in the Rule 5 Draft.


What's the big deal, you say? These are all reasonable moves for a guy on a budget, you say?


I say: Bollocks! I say wake up and smell the coffee, chief. I say ask yourself one question: What do all these players have in common, besides the facts that none of them speaks fluent French and all of them go to bed every night praying for deliverance from Olympic Stadium.


That's right, smartie. They're all ex-Yankees.


You see it now, right?


You might as well call him Anakin Minaya from now on, because he's gone over to the dark side, boys and girls. He's been trolling for some of that thick, black Evil Empire juju, the kind that passes for blood when it courses through pinstriped veins.


This is just coincidence, it doesn't mean anything, you say? And besides, the Evil Empire stuff is a tired horse no one but Caple and the folks of Red Sox Nation ride anymore, you say? Come on, what real evidence do you have that Minaya and the Expos are going bad, you say?


And I say, Oh, my poor, naïve friend, would that it were only the Yankee-factor at work here. Oh, my poor, naïve friend, would that it stopped there, with some bargain-basement grab at the forces of darkness thrown out with Georgie Porgie's trash. But oh, my poor, naïve friend, it does not. It goes so much deeper and reaches so much farther than that.


How deep, you say? How far, you say?


I say two words to you, my poor, naïve friend. I say "Carl" and I say "Everett."


And are you shaken by these words? Do you hear in them the storm gathering on the horizon? Do you feel the earth opening up beneath your feet, ready to swallow you whole? Do you see now that Robert Frost's "some say the earth will end in fire" was not speculation but prophecy?


Why are Omar Minaya, left, and Frank Robinson smiling when there's seemlingly nothing about their situation to smile about? Hmm.
Of course you do. You see these things and you are afraid. You see a team you once loved, a team with something like young David Naughton's appealing smile and winning personality, morphing like the American Werewolf in London into something you must hate, something whose full-mooned April arrival you dread.


And you ask yourself, what's next? Where will it end?


Are Zimmer and Stottlemyre about to be named bench coaches under Frank Robinson?


Will Reggie attempt a comeback?


Can we be sure that Billy Martin is dead, and not just on-ice in some Montreal-area hospital awaiting scientific advancements and the contract-term overtures of a certain Expo GM that might bring him back to life?


Will it continue to stretch beyond Yankeeness? Is Everett just the start of the bad-citizen brigade?


Is there a back-room, three-way deal in the works among Montreal, Boston, and Texas, that sends Vlad Guerrero to Arlington, and A-Rod to Boston, and brings Manny Ramirez and his suitcase full of sulk north of the border?


Where's Mo Vaughn? Is it true he's just had a new passport photo taken?


Who's got Mondesi? Is he swinging wildly at pitches in the Olympic Stadium dirt even as we speak?


You're hysterical. You're talking crazy. Shake yourself out of it.


But you can't. You've seen the headlines: "Everett Inks Two-Year Deal." You know anything is possible. You smell the Expos rotting right beneath your nose.


And so you worry and wonder ...


Is Omar rolling up to John Rocker's place right now, contract in hand, talking about a place where his mouth can run free, about a team that'll let Rocker be Rocker?


Jose Canseco was a Yankee and a battery mate. A perfect fit!
Did he just get off a conference call with Bill Singer and Matt Millen, pitching some sort of two-headed PR post where no holds will be barred?


Stop it. This is ridiculous.


Yeah, yeah, sure it is. About as ridiculous as Marty McSorley trading in a stick for a bat.


Is this why LT wrote the book, to generate some buzz before his really big announcement. "I've always loved Montreal," he says. "And you know I can hit."


When Dennis Rodman was talking comeback last week, is this what he was talking about? A little Canadian cross-over?


You're not so much scared as contemptuous now; you're getting sarcastic.


Why not make a run for Sheffield? He's the doubleheader: a Yankee and a malcontent, you say.


How about the remaining Blazers? I hear 'Sheed throws a nasty (and I mean really nasty) cut fastball, you say.


But you know, even as you shout this smack to the heavens, that you're just whistling in the new Expo dark. You know this is serious, that it's only a matter of time before Omar and his forces come calling like a Canadian avalanche, looking to bury all that is good, plucky, charming, sweet, and lovable in their path.


Because you know this: David Wells is still available.


I hear you crying now. I see you shivering. I want to comfort you, tell you this is all a bad dream. But it isn't a dream, bub, and it isn't "Lord of the Rings" or "Star Wars." I can't guarantee you that the forces of good will triumph over the forces of evil.


I can only tell you what I know. Well, that, and what Bob Dylan said about life in the new Expo reality:


"I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains,
I've walked and I've crawled on six crooked highways,
I've stepped in the middle of seven sad forests,
I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans,
I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard,
And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard,
And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall."

Ha!

[Bronco LB 59]

The American League East keeps getting richer...............

Orioles signed catcher Javier Lopez today. The O's won't compete or finish higher than 3rd place, but they will be worth watching for the first time in seven years.