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SoCalBronco
03-22-2009, 01:42 AM
broncos
Bowlen staying out of drama
Owner never meddler
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 03/22/2009 12:30:00 AM MDT


"If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart. This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it." - Pat Bowlen, Broncos owner, on coach Josh McDaniels (Post file)Related Articles
Mar 22:
Goodell won't step in to solve Cutler messKiszla: Cook is no top chef in Jay-C messPaige: Griese can identify with Cutler's plightFans want more from Pat Bowlen.

Come on, Pat. Get involved. Step in. Take a stand. Soothe the storm. Help the young head coach. Pacify the quarterback.

Where, oh where, rant passionate Broncos fans, is Pat Bowlen during McJaygate?

Let's say the public wins. Bowlen, the Broncos' owner, bows to pressure and gets in the middle of the rift between his new coach, Josh McDaniels, and his Pro Bowl quarterback, Jay Cutler. And let's say Bowlen succeeds in forging a peace settlement.

Has anyone thought about the possible repercussions of the owner solving disagreements between coaches and players?

Bowlen's approach in the Cutler drama is consistent with how he's run the Broncos since he bought the franchise 25 years ago Monday. He oversees the organization; the head coach runs the team. And if one area bleeds into another, it's always about the team.

"I'm in the building and I'm in the room," Bowlen said. "But we have a young coach who is in charge of football operations and he's going to handle this. If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart.

"This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it."

Although McDaniels is only 32, Bowlen saw enough maturity, energy and wisdom to hire the New England Patriots offensive coordinator to replace Mike Shanahan as the Broncos' head coach on Jan. 11.

Dove Valley has been in a perpetual state of transition ever since. Shanahan had gained so much authority during his 14-year coaching era with the Broncos, he made unilateral decisions. Last year, Shanahan worked out a two-year contract extension with one of his assistant coaches. Nothing extraordinary there, except Bowlen wasn't notified until later.

Regaining control of his franchise is one reason Bowlen dismissed Shanahan on Dec. 31. Since then, Bowlen has rebuilt a system of checks and balances inside team headquarters. McDaniels reports to Bowlen, as does general manager Brian Xanders and chief operating officer Joe Ellis.

The proposed trade that would have sent Cutler to Tampa Bay and New England quarterback Matt Cassel to Denver? It never crossed Bowlen's desk, which McDaniels said should signify he never seriously considered making the deal.

Nevertheless, Cutler was stung when he heard about it. Under Shanahan, Cutler was treated as a franchise quarterback — but more than once the head coach tore into his talented, if undisciplined, quarterback behind closed doors.

Cutler, though, never felt like anything other than his team's most important player. Shanahan built his roster around his gifted passer. The Broncos' top two picks in the 2008 draft were an offensive tackle and wide receiver. Indeed, when Cutler went to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl six weeks ago, he paid for his rookie left tackle, Ryan Clady, and rookie receiver Eddie Royal to join him.

Six weeks ago? The Pro Bowl must seem like six months ago to Cutler fans.

When McDaniels arrived, he brought "Patriot Way" principles. The Patriot Way allows stars. (See Tom Brady and Randy Moss.) But the Patriot Way will go out of its way to remind Brady and Moss they are not bigger than the team.

Only McDaniels can reset the culture at Dove Valley as he wants it, and attempt to repair a fractured relationship with his quarterback without splintering the infrastructure of his roster.

It hasn't been easy. Some would call McDaniels-Cutler a feuding fiasco.

Bowlen understands that criticism, but has decided to observe, listen and discuss, and empower his young coach to handle it.

"Pat is fully engaged in the situation concerning the quarterback," Ellis said. "He converses with Josh and Brian on a daily basis."

The breakdown with McDaniels has caused Cutler to formally request a trade, a demand he made a week ago. At least 10 teams have called to express interest, and the Broncos are listening. They will arrive at the NFL meetings that start today in Dana Point, Calif., with the intention of holding on to Cutler, but keeping their options open if the coach-quarterback relationship is irreparable.

There was a time during this ordeal when Cutler wanted to speak directly to Bowlen. Fine, Bowlen said. Bowlen preferred to meet face to face in his Dove Valley office, but Cutler has been staying in Nashville, Tenn., where he starred at Vanderbilt. Bowlen arranged for Cutler to call him on March 7. Cutler never called.

Sure, there have been times when Bowlen wanted to tell management's side in this coach-quarterback dispute that has polarized Broncos Nation. But the controversy is so charged with emotion, nothing said publicly is taken at face value.

"He would prefer this get worked out privately, rather than in a dialogue with the media," Ellis said. "That said, he recognizes that our fans deserve an explanation, and he intends to give one. Once the issue reaches a resolution."

On Monday, Bowlen will celebrate his 25th anniversary as Broncos owner. The occasion will be marked by a series of league meetings in hotel conference rooms, and a quarterback drama hovering ominously over his franchise. As Bowlen deals with league matters, McDaniels will deal directly with the Cutler issue.

However McJaygate plays out, Bowlen believes his coach will be the better for it.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11968834

SoCalBronco
03-22-2009, 01:48 AM
"I'm in the building and I'm in the room," Bowlen said. "But we have a young coach who is in charge of football operations and he's going to handle this. If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart. "This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it."





"That said, he recognizes that our fans deserve an explanation, and he intends to give one. Once the issue reaches a resolution."




These two things stand out. The problem with Bowlen's thinking is that while it is perfectly defensible to let his head coach "cut his teeth" and gain experience in problematic situations without interfering, this isn't an ordinary problematic situation. This is a crisis of huge magnitude. In many ways, the future of the franchise will be substantially altered by its resolution. It is not an ordinary crisis. In these truly exigent circumstances, the owner MUST intervene, whether or not the coach is a rookie. Did Bowlen sit back and allow Reeves to just handle the feud with Elway when it came to a head in 1992? No. He recognized that while he usually takes a hands off approach, when there is a crisis of truly monumentous proportions, he must intervene, because it affects the future of the franchise.

The second line is very disturbing. It suggests that Jay definitely will be traded. It's almost as if they're saying, when we get him out of here then we'll tell you what (they believe) happened. If the "resolution" was a positive one, then there would be no need to explain anything, because rehashing it would have no positive purpose if they've already moved on. This is sad. :(

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 01:51 AM
broncos
Bowlen staying out of drama
Owner never meddler
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 03/22/2009 12:30:00 AM MDT


"If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart. This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it." - Pat Bowlen, Broncos owner, on coach Josh McDaniels (Post file)Related Articles
Mar 22:
Goodell won't step in to solve Cutler messKiszla: Cook is no top chef in Jay-C messPaige: Griese can identify with Cutler's plightFans want more from Pat Bowlen.

Come on, Pat. Get involved. Step in. Take a stand. Soothe the storm. Help the young head coach. Pacify the quarterback.

Where, oh where, rant passionate Broncos fans, is Pat Bowlen during McJaygate?

Let's say the public wins. Bowlen, the Broncos' owner, bows to pressure and gets in the middle of the rift between his new coach, Josh McDaniels, and his Pro Bowl quarterback, Jay Cutler. And let's say Bowlen succeeds in forging a peace settlement.

Has anyone thought about the possible repercussions of the owner solving disagreements between coaches and players?

Bowlen's approach in the Cutler drama is consistent with how he's run the Broncos since he bought the franchise 25 years ago Monday. He oversees the organization; the head coach runs the team. And if one area bleeds into another, it's always about the team.

"I'm in the building and I'm in the room," Bowlen said. "But we have a young coach who is in charge of football operations and he's going to handle this. If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart.

"This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it."

Although McDaniels is only 32, Bowlen saw enough maturity, energy and wisdom to hire the New England Patriots offensive coordinator to replace Mike Shanahan as the Broncos' head coach on Jan. 11.

Dove Valley has been in a perpetual state of transition ever since. Shanahan had gained so much authority during his 14-year coaching era with the Broncos, he made unilateral decisions. Last year, Shanahan worked out a two-year contract extension with one of his assistant coaches. Nothing extraordinary there, except Bowlen wasn't notified until later.

Regaining control of his franchise is one reason Bowlen dismissed Shanahan on Dec. 31. Since then, Bowlen has rebuilt a system of checks and balances inside team headquarters. McDaniels reports to Bowlen, as does general manager Brian Xanders and chief operating officer Joe Ellis.

The proposed trade that would have sent Cutler to Tampa Bay and New England quarterback Matt Cassel to Denver? It never crossed Bowlen's desk, which McDaniels said should signify he never seriously considered making the deal.

Nevertheless, Cutler was stung when he heard about it. Under Shanahan, Cutler was treated as a franchise quarterback — but more than once the head coach tore into his talented, if undisciplined, quarterback behind closed doors.

Cutler, though, never felt like anything other than his team's most important player. Shanahan built his roster around his gifted passer. The Broncos' top two picks in the 2008 draft were an offensive tackle and wide receiver. Indeed, when Cutler went to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl six weeks ago, he paid for his rookie left tackle, Ryan Clady, and rookie receiver Eddie Royal to join him.

Six weeks ago? The Pro Bowl must seem like six months ago to Cutler fans.

When McDaniels arrived, he brought "Patriot Way" principles. The Patriot Way allows stars. (See Tom Brady and Randy Moss.) But the Patriot Way will go out of its way to remind Brady and Moss they are not bigger than the team.

Only McDaniels can reset the culture at Dove Valley as he wants it, and attempt to repair a fractured relationship with his quarterback without splintering the infrastructure of his roster.

It hasn't been easy. Some would call McDaniels-Cutler a feuding fiasco.

Bowlen understands that criticism, but has decided to observe, listen and discuss, and empower his young coach to handle it.

"Pat is fully engaged in the situation concerning the quarterback," Ellis said. "He converses with Josh and Brian on a daily basis."

The breakdown with McDaniels has caused Cutler to formally request a trade, a demand he made a week ago. At least 10 teams have called to express interest, and the Broncos are listening. They will arrive at the NFL meetings that start today in Dana Point, Calif., with the intention of holding on to Cutler, but keeping their options open if the coach-quarterback relationship is irreparable.

There was a time during this ordeal when Cutler wanted to speak directly to Bowlen. Fine, Bowlen said. Bowlen preferred to meet face to face in his Dove Valley office, but Cutler has been staying in Nashville, Tenn., where he starred at Vanderbilt. Bowlen arranged for Cutler to call him on March 7. Cutler never called.

Sure, there have been times when Bowlen wanted to tell management's side in this coach-quarterback dispute that has polarized Broncos Nation. But the controversy is so charged with emotion, nothing said publicly is taken at face value.

"He would prefer this get worked out privately, rather than in a dialogue with the media," Ellis said. "That said, he recognizes that our fans deserve an explanation, and he intends to give one. Once the issue reaches a resolution."

On Monday, Bowlen will celebrate his 25th anniversary as Broncos owner. The occasion will be marked by a series of league meetings in hotel conference rooms, and a quarterback drama hovering ominously over his franchise. As Bowlen deals with league matters, McDaniels will deal directly with the Cutler issue.

However McJaygate plays out, Bowlen believes his coach will be the better for it.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11968834

Doesn't this article contradict the one posted earlier (a couple of days ago) that said Pat was the only one at Dove Valley who was "still furious" at Jay?

watermock
03-22-2009, 02:01 AM
Gawd, this going to be ending soon in a catastrophe. With Bowlen allready pissed at Cutler and Mcdummy eager to end this, it's going to happen...

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We're turning into the Raiders, not the Patriots.

Popps
03-22-2009, 02:08 AM
"If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart. This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it." - Pat Bowlen

"Pat is fully engaged in the situation concerning the quarterback," Ellis said. "He converses with Josh and Brian on a daily basis."



Of course, many of us have already spelled that out around here.

Those clamoring for Bowlen to suddenly become a sideline-roaming Jerry Jones type, sticking his nose into everyon's Kool-aid are barking up the wrong tree. Not only is that not his style, he's handling this exactly how he should.

I posted just last night that his "inaction" on this speaks volumes.

Popps
03-22-2009, 02:11 AM
This is a crisis of huge magnitude..

No it's not.

It's a sub-.500, 87-rating QB with some decent yardage numbers who's having a temper tantrum.

If it gets worked out, great.

If not, it was probably for the best.

I love the entertainment value of the drama, SoCal... but this is the furthest thing from a "crisis." In fact, the team may well be better off for it. You can't see the future any better than anyone else. So, you're welcome to GUESS out loud, but just keep in mind that the crisis lies in your thought process, not in reality.

NUB
03-22-2009, 02:11 AM
Fair enough. But many wont forget the sternness of Bowlen the day he fired Shanahan.

Popps
03-22-2009, 02:13 AM
Fair enough. But many wont forget the sternness of Bowlen the day he fired Shanahan.

Nor the tenacity with which he hired him... or the five Superbowls he has brought to Denver.

OABB
03-22-2009, 02:14 AM
No it's not.

It's a sub-.500, 87-rating QB with some decent yardage numbers who's having a temper tantrum.


How do you contain that level of optimism?

your face must hurt from smiling so much.

SouthStndJunkie
03-22-2009, 02:20 AM
The proposed trade that would have sent Cutler to Tampa Bay and New England quarterback Matt Cassel to Denver? It never crossed Bowlen's desk, which McDaniels said should signify he never seriously considered making the deal.

Sounds like Pat Bourbon handed over all the power to a 32 year old kid.

If I were the owner, I would want to know if a trade like that was being thought about.

Ratboy
03-22-2009, 02:20 AM
The second line is very disturbing. It suggests that Jay definitely will be traded. It's almost as if they're saying, when we get him out of here then we'll tell you what (they believe) happened. If the "resolution" was a positive one, then there would be no need to explain anything, because rehashing it would have no positive purpose if they've already moved on. This is sad. :(


I got this vibe too. :cuss:

watermock
03-22-2009, 02:24 AM
Regaining control of his franchise is one reason Bowlen dismissed Shanahan on Dec. 31. Since then, Bowlen has rebuilt a system of checks and balances inside team headquarters. McDaniels reports to Bowlen, as does general manager Brian Xanders and chief operating officer Joe Ellis.

The proposed trade that would have sent Cutler to Tampa Bay and New England quarterback Matt Cassel to Denver? It never crossed Bowlen's desk,

So much for the assumption there actually IS checks and balances right now.

Joe Ellis and the X-factor?

Bowlen will entertain offers, phone McDummy, and this will end with a poor, debilitating trade, made in haste and under pressure for Bowlen to appear that he is still in control of this fiasco.

I'm convinced that whatever the best deal Bowlen gets, he will call McFail and Cutler will be gone, peobably with Sheff as well.

So be it.

When we put up a combined 35 points against the NFC East, it will be too late.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 02:29 AM
"If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart. This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it." - Pat Bowlen

"Pat is fully engaged in the situation concerning the quarterback," Ellis said. "He converses with Josh and Brian on a daily basis."



Of course, many of us have already spelled that out around here.

Those clamoring for Bowlen to suddenly become a sideline-roaming Jerry Jones type, sticking his nose into everyon's Kool-aid are barking up the wrong tree. Not only is that not his style, he's handling this exactly how he should.

I posted just last night that his "inaction" on this speaks volumes.

Popps, people are "clamoring" for him to act because he said it was his team and he would be making the decisions....

Popps
03-22-2009, 02:32 AM
How do you contain that level of optimism?

your face must hurt from smiling so much.

Sorry, I'm a fan of the team. I guess you're a relative of the Cutlers or something?

Broncos... you know, the team?

I'm optimistic about the TEAM.

OABB
03-22-2009, 02:34 AM
Sorry, I'm a fan of the team. I guess you're a relative of the Cutlers or something?

Broncos... you know, the team?

I'm optimistic about the TEAM.

Oh, I got confused. I consider the starting quarterback to fit in that category. Newbie mistake.

Taco John
03-22-2009, 02:37 AM
Sure, there have been times when Bowlen wanted to tell management's side in this coach-quarterback dispute that has polarized Broncos Nation. But the controversy is so charged with emotion, nothing said publicly is taken at face value.



Klis pulled a punch there, and didn't tell the full truth...

Here is the correct paragraph:

Sure, there have been times when Bowlen wanted to tell management's side in this coach-quarterback dispute that has polarized Broncos Nation. But the message coming from Dove Valley since this controversey has begun has changed so much, nothing said publicly is taken at face value.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 02:43 AM
Bowlen staying out of this and allowing the new inexperienced HC to do what he will... is tantamount to handing a teenager who's never driven the keys to your sportscar, jumping into the passenger seat and then saying nothing... just watching... as he proceeds to run it off the road repeatedly putting multiple dents in it.

Popps
03-22-2009, 02:44 AM
Popps, people are "clamoring" for him to act because he said it was his team and he would be making the decisions....

He did, Blue.

He did.

You just don't like it. :)

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 02:46 AM
He did, Blue.

He did.

You just don't like it. :)

No, he lied, Popps... he's not controlling the team, the Patriot is. He wields Shanahan-esque power and that's why the team is fubar'ed. You're right that I don't like the team being fubar'ed.

Pseudofool
03-22-2009, 02:50 AM
Klis pulled a punch there, and didn't tell the full truth...

Here is the correct paragraph:

Sure, there have been times when Bowlen wanted to tell management's side in this coach-quarterback dispute that has polarized Broncos Nation. But the message coming from Dove Valley since this controversey has begun has changed so much, nothing said publicly is taken at face value.I hope that's a joke. Because that's a pretty shallow paraphrase. That's not at all what he means.

I tend to agree with SoCal's take on that second quote--which suggests that Bowlen wants Jay Cutler playing for a different team. (It's hard to read the having-to-explain-what-happened if Jay isn't traded, if he's on the team the 'perpetual rift' will continue no matter what's resolves, and there will be no press conference moment for explanation.)

Broncos_OTM
03-22-2009, 02:53 AM
I thought the whole point was to take back his org. GM running persoenell side my ass

Popps
03-22-2009, 03:01 AM
Oh, I got confused. I consider the starting quarterback to fit in that category. Newbie mistake.

Yea, I guess being the ancient age of 40, I'm a little old-school.

A guy actually showing up to work and not creating a "trade-me" media circus generally fall into my job description for a "team" QB.

So, when Jay starts acting like our "starting" QB again, I'll welcome him back to the team.

Popps
03-22-2009, 03:03 AM
No, he lied, Popps... he's not controlling the team, the Patriot is. He wields Shanahan-esque power and that's why the team is fubar'ed. You're right that I don't like the team being fubar'ed.

That's your opinion. All in your mind. You're welcome to it, but it's all in your mind.

When we play some games and see this team progress, perhaps we can make educated guesses at that point.

But, no one is "fubar." That's imaginary.

Popps
03-22-2009, 03:04 AM
Bowlen staying out of this and allowing the new inexperienced HC to do what he will... is tantamount to handing a teenager who's never driven the keys to your sportscar, jumping into the passenger seat and then saying nothing....

Really? Just like Shanahan. Wow.

summerdenver
03-22-2009, 03:14 AM
The second line is very disturbing. It suggests that Jay definitely will be traded. It's almost as if they're saying, when we get him out of here then we'll tell you what (they believe) happened. If the "resolution" was a positive one, then there would be no need to explain anything, because rehashing it would have no positive purpose if they've already moved on. This is sad. :(

All of the actions of Broncos since the news breakout suggest this. IMO Jay will be traded to the highest bidder.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 03:30 AM
That's your opinion. All in your mind. You're welcome to it, but it's all in your mind.

When we play some games and see this team progress, perhaps we can make educated guesses at that point.

But, no one is "fubar." That's imaginary.

OK, a controversy that creates bad press for weeks on end and could affect the locker room is "just opinion", "all in my mind" and "imaginary"....

I wish.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 03:32 AM
Really? Just like Shanahan. Wow.

Except Shanahan didn't wrap the Ferrari around a telephone pole....

Popps
03-22-2009, 03:42 AM
Except Shanahan didn't wrap the Ferrari around a telephone pole....

It took him a few seasons to build the Ferrari.

Are you going to give McDaniels ANY chance, or just perma-hate him?

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 03:48 AM
It took him a few seasons to build the Ferrari.

Are you going to give McDaniels ANY chance, or just perma-hate him?

Honesty here? I don't believe he'll be around long enough for it to matter.

watermock
03-22-2009, 03:52 AM
I give you some ammo Popps...

"You have to break a few eggs to make an omlette".

It's better for you than:

"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

elsid13
03-22-2009, 06:25 AM
Hard to believe anyone that say "I'm in charge" then turn arounds and delegates the decisions to folks under him. If that the business model Bowlen wanted then he should have hired a real GM.

BTW all the folks saying Cutler can not take tongue lashing fail to mention this sentence

"Nevertheless, Cutler was stung when he heard about it. Under Shanahan, Cutler was treated as a franchise quarterback — but more than once the head coach tore into his talented, if undisciplined, quarterback behind closed doors."

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 08:33 AM
The proposed trade that would have sent Cutler to Tampa Bay and New England quarterback Matt Cassel to Denver? It never crossed Bowlen's desk, which McDaniels said should signify he never seriously considered making the deal.

Sounds like Pat Bourbon handed over all the power to a 32 year old kid.

If I were the owner, I would want to know if a trade like that was being thought about.Did you read any of the article, dimwit? Clearly not.

The whole point is that McDaniels has to run things through Pat, and the fact that he didn't means that it never got to the level where they were actually considering pulling the trigger.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 08:33 AM
Honesty here? I don't believe he'll be around long enough for it to matter.

You're naive.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 08:34 AM
Hard to believe anyone that say "I'm in charge" then turn arounds and delegates the decisions to folks under him. If that the business model Bowlen wanted then he should have hired a real GM.

BTW all the folks saying Cutler can not take tongue lashing fail to mention this sentence

"Nevertheless, Cutler was stung when he heard about it. Under Shanahan, Cutler was treated as a franchise quarterback — but more than once the head coach tore into his talented, if undisciplined, quarterback behind closed doors."
Did every Cutler snuggler miss where they outlined the chain of command in the article?

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 08:38 AM
OK, a controversy that creates bad press for weeks on end and could affect the locker room is "just opinion", "all in my mind" and "imaginary"....

I wish.
You have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE LOCKER ROOM. And yet you use it as your foundation for lambasting the new coach.

Bad press has nothing to do with football.

For all you know the players are all singing the coach's praises and begging for Cutler to get lost so they can get a leader who believes in the vision that McDaniels has outlined for the team.

So, yes, it's all in your mind.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-22-2009, 08:40 AM
Did you read any of the article, dimwit? Clearly not.

The whole point is that McDaniels has to run things through Pat, and the fact that he didn't means that it never got to the level where they were actually considering pulling the trigger.

Exactly. Clearly things did not develop very far, as Bowlen wasn't notified. Belichick has said that there was never anything resembling a firm offer or a "do you want to deal" statement from any of the teams supposedly involved in this multi-team deal.

Nothing happened. Nothing happened. Nothing happened.

How is that so hard to see?

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 08:40 AM
but more than once the head coach tore into his talented, if undisciplined, quarterback behind closed doors."

The question is whether Cutler listened, not whether the coach tore into him.

DenverBrit
03-22-2009, 08:47 AM
The second line is very disturbing. It suggests that Jay definitely will be traded.

It only suggests a trade if one is in a negative frame of mind.

The comment could also mean......'once we have the drama over with, and Jay is back on board.' We have no way of knowing the outcome......I'm not sure anyone involved does.

Bowlen's comments are consistent with the way he's run his franchise since he's owned it.
He is hands off as far as the public is concerned, but very active within his organization.

baja
03-22-2009, 08:49 AM
Doesn't this article contradict the one posted earlier (a couple of days ago) that said Pat was the only one at Dove Valley who was "still furious" at Jay?

Wow our first contradiction in this mess.

You are right and I did buy into the Pat was furious story but no more. Please PM me when this is resolved. ;D

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-22-2009, 08:52 AM
Wow our first contradiction in this mess.

You are right and I did buy into the Pat was furious story but no more. Please PM me when this is resolved. ;D

And that wasn't an article. It was a statement from Sandy Clough, who is a sports talk radio jock. And what are sports talk radio jocks notorious for? Oh right. Stirring the pot without accountability.

DenverBrit
03-22-2009, 08:53 AM
Hard to believe anyone that say "I'm in charge" then turn arounds and delegates the decisions to folks under him. If that the business model Bowlen wanted then he should have hired a real GM.



That's exactly how it should be done.
Delegating is the most difficult aspect of owning a business.......but at the end of the day, Bowlen is in charge.
There is no point in hiring someone, then interfering publicly each time controversy arises.
You can bet that Bowlen is offering guidance and advice daily......in the background.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 08:58 AM
That's exactly how it should be done.
Delegating is the most difficult aspect of owning a business.......but at the end of the day, Bowlen is in charge.
There is no point in hiring someone, then interfering publicly each time controversy arises.
You can bet that Bowlen is offering guidance and advice daily......in the background.

Exactly. If you want to run a business into the ground, hire people, pay them a nice salary, and then do their jobs for them.

baja
03-22-2009, 08:59 AM
I hope that's a joke. Because that's a pretty shallow paraphrase. That's not at all what he means.

I tend to agree with SoCal's take on that second quote--which suggests that Bowlen wants Jay Cutler playing for a different team. (It's hard to read the having-to-explain-what-happened if Jay isn't traded, if he's on the team the 'perpetual rift' will continue no matter what's resolves, and there will be no press conference moment for explanation.)

That statement by Bowlen is a perfect example of why he should keep his mouth shut because he shows his hand every time he opens his mouth. he never learned anything from Shanahan who could talk for hours and not divulge a single thing.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-22-2009, 09:01 AM
That statement by Bowlen is a perfect example of why he should keep his mouth shut because he shows his hand every time he opens his mouth. he never learned anything from Shanahan who could talk for hours and not divulge a single thing.

That wasn't a statement from Bowlen. It was a statement from Taco John.

Another humorous opportunity that backfires for TJ.

baja
03-22-2009, 09:05 AM
You have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE LOCKER ROOM. And yet you use it as your foundation for lambasting the new coach.

Bad press has nothing to do with football.

For all you know the players are all singing the coach's praises and begging for Cutler to get lost so they can get a leader who believes in the vision that McDaniels has outlined for the team.

So, yes, it's all in your mind.

Rep!

baja
03-22-2009, 09:07 AM
Exactly. Clearly things did not develop very far, as Bowlen wasn't notified. Belichick has said that there was never anything resembling a firm offer or a "do you want to deal" statement from any of the teams supposedly involved in this multi-team deal.

Nothing happened. Nothing happened. Nothing happened.

How is that so hard to see?

More rep!

elsid13
03-22-2009, 09:07 AM
That's exactly how it should be done.
Delegating is the most difficult aspect of owning a business.......but at the end of the day, Bowlen is in charge.
There is no point in hiring someone, then interfering publicly each time controversy arises.
You can bet that Bowlen is offering guidance and advice daily......in the background.

There is major difference in delegating day to day operations and delegating the basic vision of the franchise.

DenverBrit
03-22-2009, 09:07 AM
I hope that's a joke. Because that's a pretty shallow paraphrase. That's not at all what he means.

I tend to agree with SoCal's take on that second quote--which suggests that Bowlen wants Jay Cutler playing for a different team. (It's hard to read the having-to-explain-what-happened if Jay isn't traded, if he's on the team the 'perpetual rift' will continue no matter what's resolves, and there will be no press conference moment for explanation.)

Do you mean this?

"That said, he recognizes that our fans deserve an explanation, and he intends to give one. Once the issue reaches a resolution."

I just don't get it........how do you take that quote and come up with:

"We are going to trade Jay before explaining what happened"?

baja
03-22-2009, 09:11 AM
And that wasn't an article. It was a statement from Sandy Clough, who is a sports talk radio jock. And what are sports talk radio jocks notorious for? Oh right. Stirring the pot without accountability.

Like newspaper articles are any more credible.

OK Moose what's the truth in this than.

DenverBrit
03-22-2009, 09:17 AM
There is major difference in delegating day to day operations and delegating the basic vision of the franchise.

What makes you think he has?

Bowlen is a very active owner, but not publicly.

As for the 'trade,' it's already been stated that it never got serious enough to cross Bowlen's desk.
Bowlen's paying the price for hiring a young, inexperienced HC, but he's had some success doing that in the past.
Shanahan wasn't without controversy either.......did Bowlen publicly step in the middle then?
Nope, he let his young HC and the players involved work it out.
Bowlen's comments are consistent, going back to the Dan Reeves era.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 09:24 AM
There is major difference in delegating day to day operations and delegating the basic vision of the franchise.

The fact that McDaniels was hired means that he and Bowlen are united in the basic vision the franchise, and that isn't where you're asking Bowlen to step in.

Deciding what players best fit your vision is precisely what day-to-day operations consist of in the NFL. The Coaches discuss the players every single day. They form ideas and discuss them with the GM, and if they all agree to pursue a player in FA or a trade they take the scenario to Bowlen.

You're asking that Pat jump in at the coaching level, which is the definition of micro-managing and a description of how things are done in places like Oakland, Dallas, and Washington. No thanks.

Rohirrim
03-22-2009, 09:38 AM
McD is an excellent judge of QBs and a excellent coach of the QB position, which has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to everyone in the NFL other than the truly fringe, rabid Cutlerites. He must now make a decision whether he thinks Cutler is worth all the drama, or if he is just another Jeff George, to use the popular bad example. He is paid by Pat to make this kind of decision. This is his first, executive decision. And now some want Pat to make it? Why? If this is Pat's decision, why is he paying McD? Thank God Bowlen doesn't turn into Jerry Jones and try to make the decision himself.

Pseudofool
03-22-2009, 09:56 AM
Do you mean this?



I just don't get it........how do you take that quote and come up with:

"We are going to trade Jay before explaining what happened"?

We'll that's not how I'd paraphrase it. If Jay is not traded what needs to be explained? If Jay stays with the team, there's no need for an explanation. What else could Bowlen mean by 'resolution' if not trade? Any explanation would seem to indite Cutler, which is why they can't give one now.

baja
03-22-2009, 10:03 AM
What makes you think he has?

Bowlen is a very active owner, but not publicly.

As for the 'trade,' it's already been stated that it never got serious enough to cross Bowlen's desk.
Bowlen's paying the price for hiring a young, inexperienced HC, but he's had some success doing that in the past.
Shanahan wasn't without controversy either.......did Bowlen publicly step in the middle then?
Nope, he let his young HC and the players involved work it out.
Bowlen's comments are consistent, going back to the Dan Reeves era.

Shanahan had had an opportunity to make his early mistakes while sreving as HC for the Raiders.

McDaniels has had no such warm up.

baja
03-22-2009, 10:06 AM
The fact that McDaniels was hired means that he and Bowlen are united in the basic vision the franchise, and that isn't where you're asking Bowlen to step in.

Deciding what players best fit your vision is precisely what day-to-day operations consist of in the NFL. The Coaches discuss the players every single day. They form ideas and discuss them with the GM, and if they all agree to pursue a player in FA or a trade they take the scenario to Bowlen.

You're asking that Pat jump in at the coaching level, which is the definition of micro-managing and a description of how things are done in places like Oakland, Dallas, and Washington. No thanks.

Yet another right on post by you dedhed.

Hulamau
03-22-2009, 10:11 AM
These two things stand out. The problem with Bowlen's thinking is that while it is perfectly defensible to let his head coach "cut his teeth" and gain experience in problematic situations without interfering, this isn't an ordinary problematic situation. This is a crisis of huge magnitude. In many ways, the future of the franchise will be substantially altered by its resolution. It is not an ordinary crisis. In these truly exigent circumstances, the owner MUST intervene, whether or not the coach is a rookie. Did Bowlen sit back and allow Reeves to just handle the feud with Elway when it came to a head in 1992? No. He recognized that while he usually takes a hands off approach, when there is a crisis of truly monumentous proportions, he must intervene, because it affects the future of the franchise.

The second line is very disturbing. It suggests that Jay definitely will be traded. It's almost as if they're saying, when we get him out of here then we'll tell you what (they believe) happened. If the "resolution" was a positive one, then there would be no need to explain anything, because rehashing it would have no positive purpose if they've already moved on. This is sad. :(

First of all, its clear Bowlen is very much involved giving advice and direction to both McD and Xanders but very rightly so is letting them actually do the working it out based on their discussions and internal agreement.

If you think Bowlen is a dummy I think you are missing the boat here, but then on this particularly issue Ive felt that for a few weeks. I do agree with you on a lot of thing SoCal, but we have different views on this one.

Whether Jay plays here or not I think has a lot more to do with how Jay responds now to the Broncos backroom overtures than anything else. If he's smart for his own sake he'll be at Dove Valley ASAP ready to put this behind him and gets on with winning.

Broncos4tw
03-22-2009, 10:12 AM
As far as this goes, I have to agree, that Bowlen gets the say on this. If he doesn't want to get involved, it's his dollar I guess. If the team falters, and sales plummet, it's his money. He owns the team. He is completely at rights to completely ignore this, if he wants. I don't think that's the smartest thing to do, but it is what it is.

It's a sub-.500, 87-rating QB with some decent yardage numbers who's having a temper tantrum.

I agree he is having a temper tantrum, but I also think our new coach is doing a crappy job fixing the problem. Players have tantrums all the time.

As far as his skill goes, it's obviously better than the #'s you try to put down, acting like he is an average QB who happened to manage a few more yards than other QBs. Many pro QBs and coaches and ex players have said without reservation, that while Jay has some rough edges (the most glaring being his propensity to force the ball in to make something happen), he can do things with that ball that MOST QBS CANNOT. He is ABOVE average in play. He has a wealth of natural talent. Now, as a QB coach, I would have thought that Josh would have taken the challange to coach Cutler to play within his system, utilizing his abilities. But he didn't. He shrugged his shoulders and tried to replace what was probably the last position needed replacing on the team.

That was a monumental blunder. You don't think it was? Believe me, if we end up with Simms under center, you'll see what a blunder it was. Can you say a 4 win season? It would not be pretty.

DenverBrit
03-22-2009, 10:12 AM
We'll that's not how I'd paraphrase it. If Jay is not traded what needs to be explained? If Jay stays with the team, there's no need for an explanation. What else could Bowlen mean by 'resolution' if not trade? Any explanation would seem to indite Cutler, which is why they can't give one now.

Either way, I'd like an explanation and I suspect, so would every other Bronco's fan.

Hulamau
03-22-2009, 10:16 AM
McD is an excellent judge of QBs and a excellent coach of the QB position, which has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to everyone in the NFL other than the truly fringe, rabid Cutlerites. He must now make a decision whether he thinks Cutler is worth all the drama, or if he is just another Jeff George, to use the popular bad example. He is paid by Pat to make this kind of decision. This is his first, executive decision. And now some want Pat to make it? Why? If this is Pat's decision, why is he paying McD? Thank God Bowlen doesn't turn into Jerry Jones and try to make the decision himself.

Props to both you and Dedhed Rohirrim. 8')

lex
03-22-2009, 10:21 AM
"It never hit Bowlens desk" means nothing. The fact that McDaniels, a) was in a position to consider it, and b) did consider it, just goes to show that checks and balances are not there. Thats what a GM does. Also, McDaniels needs to get his story straight. Is it, "yeah, I did it and Im not going to apologize for it" or is it "it was nothing". Because the way he is downplaying it, is one gradation away from apologizing for it. "Never hit Bowlens desk" is a weak excuse.

Also, its clear that Bowlen is being stubborn and arrogant along with not making a lot of sense. How is this consistent with the way Pat has worked in the past when you consider that he intervened when Elway was going to be traded by firing the coach. Its true that Cutler may not be Elway but its also true that McDaniels is less accomplished as a head coach than was Reeves at that time. So thats a contradiction right there.

I wonder if Klis lets management write these articles for him. From the times Ive checked out his mailbag, he was pretty much a mouthpiece for management.

lex
03-22-2009, 10:28 AM
Did every Cutler snuggler miss where they outlined the chain of command in the article?


Theres no chain of command. Everyone works independently and answers to Bowlen, yet for some reason someone is holding the title of GM.

Cito Pelon
03-22-2009, 10:47 AM
Popps, people are "clamoring" for him to act because he said it was his team and he would be making the decisions....

But nobody brought a decision to Bowlen to be made. There was no decision to be made.

Some teams called Xanders and whispered sweet nothings to him, Xanders said I'll give it some consideration, don't call me, I'll call you, a hot rumor got started in the Boston Globe - the Boston Globe, remember? - Denver's first statement was we're not trading Jay, we're not interested in trading Jay, period, Jay got bent out of shape based on the Boston Globe story, within six hours Jay had spilled his guts to 4 different reporters before he ever talked to anyone in the FO.

It was nothing, but Jay decided to take it to the next level and make it a big drama. Jay's first media interview implied he wanted to turn the lockerroom against Josh - before he'd even spoken to Josh or anybody in the organization.

Jay's the problem. Bowlen isn't the problem, Josh isn't the problem, Bus isn't the problem, Jay's the problem.

lex
03-22-2009, 11:02 AM
But nobody brought a decision to Bowlen to be made. There was no decision to be made.

Some teams called Xanders and whispered sweet nothings to him, Xanders said I'll give it some consideration, don't call me, I'll call you, a hot rumor got started in the Boston Globe - the Boston Globe, remember? - Denver's first statement was we're not trading Jay, we're not interested in trading Jay, period, Jay got bent out of shape based on the Boston Globe story, within six hours Jay had spilled his guts to 4 different reporters before he ever talked to anyone in the FO.

It was nothing, but Jay decided to take it to the next level and make it a big drama. Jay's first media interview implied he wanted to turn the lockerroom against Josh - before he'd even spoken to Josh or anybody in the organization.

Jay's the problem. Bowlen isn't the problem, Josh isn't the problem, Bus isn't the problem, Jay's the problem.


No, when you talk about trading someone that you said you wanted to coach, you get what you get. Its at McDaniels feet.

DenverBrit
03-22-2009, 11:11 AM
But nobody brought a decision to Bowlen to be made. There was no decision to be made.

Some teams called Xanders and whispered sweet nothings to him, Xanders said I'll give it some consideration, don't call me, I'll call you, a hot rumor got started in the Boston Globe - the Boston Globe, remember? - Denver's first statement was we're not trading Jay, we're not interested in trading Jay, period, Jay got bent out of shape based on the Boston Globe story, within six hours Jay had spilled his guts to 4 different reporters before he ever talked to anyone in the FO.

It was nothing, but Jay decided to take it to the next level and make it a big drama. Jay's first media interview implied he wanted to turn the lockerroom against Josh - before he'd even spoken to Josh or anybody in the organization.

Jay's the problem. Bowlen isn't the problem, Josh isn't the problem, Bus isn't the problem, Jay's the problem.

If a valued employee were to hear a rumor that he was to be transferred to another city, he'd call his boss to find out what was going on.

Jay decided to talk to the press instead.

He should have called McDaniels or Xanders or Bowlen.....he had logical choices, yet he chose to go off the deep end publicly and without the facts.

SouthStndJunkie
03-22-2009, 11:11 AM
Did you read any of the article, dimwit? Clearly not.

The whole point is that McDaniels has to run things through Pat, and the fact that he didn't means that it never got to the level where they were actually considering pulling the trigger.

Nice....name calling with no provocation.

You can go suck a fat babies dick if you can't make a simple response without hurling insults.

lex
03-22-2009, 11:23 AM
Shanahan had had an opportunity to make his early mistakes while sreving as HC for the Raiders.

McDaniels has had no such warm up.


Al Davis is a hands off owner?

lex
03-22-2009, 11:27 AM
If a valued employee were to hear a rumor that he was to be transferred to another city, he'd call his boss to find out what was going on.

Jay decided to talk to the press instead.

He should have called McDaniels or Xanders or Bowlen.....he had logical choices, yet he chose to go off the deep end publicly and without the facts.

Again with the dumb real world comparison. An NFL team has uniqueness. The players are commodities. Theyre what the customers pay to see. Its their jerseys that are bought and sold. Nice try though. Its amazing how this is so difficult for people to comprehend.

BroncoInferno
03-22-2009, 11:35 AM
Also, McDaniels needs to get his story straight. Is it, "yeah, I did it and Im not going to apologize for it" or is it "it was nothing".

McDaniels never said that. At least not publicly. His story to the public has been pretty consistent from the beginning, and, in fact, has now been confirmed as accurate via Belichek's comments the other day. Of course, it's possible Belichek is lying about it, but I frankly can't see any benefit in it for him to do so.

DenverBrit
03-22-2009, 11:45 AM
Again with the dumb real world comparison. An NFL team has uniqueness. The players are commodities. Theyre what the customers pay to see. Its their jerseys that are bought and sold. Nice try though. Its amazing how this is so difficult for people to comprehend.

The analogy is fine, it speaks to common sense. It just doesn't fit your agenda.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 01:15 PM
You're naive.

It's not about me...but thanks for your concern.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 01:17 PM
You have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE LOCKER ROOM. And yet you use it as your foundation for lambasting the new coach.

Bad press has nothing to do with football.

For all you know the players are all singing the coach's praises and begging for Cutler to get lost so they can get a leader who believes in the vision that McDaniels has outlined for the team.

So, yes, it's all in your mind.

I never said that I did know what is going on in the locker room...hence the words "could affect"...

If you think this controversy has no effect on team chemistry, then I have some oceanfront property for sale in Kansas...

Popps
03-22-2009, 01:19 PM
Opinion here, but I'll bet this team is eventually unified by this, no matter how it ends. This is going to put a chip on a bunch of shoulders, in a good way. As I've said before, these guys have a lot of pride, and they're not going to sit around pouting while people tell them they're ****ed without one single player.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 01:19 PM
I agree he is having a temper tantrum, but I also think our new coach is doing a crappy job fixing the problem. Players have tantrums all the time.


This is the crux of the issue. People who think he's doing a crappy job of fixing the problem are ignoring what McDaniels is actually doing. He's not looking at Cutler as the thing that needs to be fixed.

In his eyes, it's the Broncos that need fixing, and therefore he's acting in perfect accord with his vision. Players who have temper tantrums about individual issues aren't going to last long in McDaniels's vision.

You can whine about his unwillingness to coddle Cutler all you want, but his goal is not to appease Cutler. His method will either work or it won't, but the people who are saying he should do anything to make Cutler happy aren't looking at the big picture of what McDaniels is trying to do.

Popps
03-22-2009, 01:22 PM
This is the crux of the issue. People who think he's doing a crappy job of fixing the problem are ignoring what McDaniels is actually doing. He's not looking at Cutler as the thing that needs to be fixed.

In his eyes, it's the Broncos that need fixing, and with that a the goal he's acting in perfect accord with that vision. Players who have temper tantrums about individual issues aren't going to last long in McDaniels's vision.

You can whine about his unwillingness to coddle Cutler all you want, but his goal is not to appease Cutler. His method will either work or it won't, but the people who are saying he should do anything to make Cutler happy aren't looking at the big picture of what McDaniels is trying to do.

Totally on-point.

Plus, how is he supposed to even "fix the problem" when Jay won't show up without his agent?

Folks, Jay wants a huge extension before he returns. That's the only "fix" McDaniels has on the table to use, as far as I can see. Cutlerbus is forcing the team into doing exactly what they're doing, waiting... or trading him.

barryr
03-22-2009, 01:23 PM
Why do people keep insisting this "wonderful" team is being broken apart? They have won 1 playoff game in 10 years and haven't made the playoffs the last 3. This was not a good team despite the denials.

The Cutler situation was not handled well by either party, but Cutler and his agent are the ones who are keeping this alive.

Bowlen did not interfere with Shanahan when Shanahan had his QB situation, Brister-Griese.

Do I want Cutler traded? Not really, unless and his agent continue on their paths.

McDaniels is not being fired anytime soon, so those that want that can either keep feeling miserable or move on to something else. Your choice. Calling for his firing in these forums won't do anything.

barryr
03-22-2009, 01:24 PM
Totally on-point.

Plus, how is he supposed to even "fix the problem" when Jay won't show up without his agent?

Folks, Jay wants a huge extension before he returns. That's the only "fix" McDaniels has on the table to use, as far as I can see. Cutlerbus is forcing the team into doing exactly what they're doing, waiting... or trading him.

Yep, if this isn't anything about contract, then why does Cutler need Cook to be around for everything? Cutler seems old enough not to need someone to hold his hand.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 01:29 PM
I never said that I did know what is going on in the locker room...hence the words "could affect"...

If you think this controversy has no effect on team chemistry, then I have some oceanfront property for sale in Kansas...

Ah Classic, the bridge for sale bit, original.

Everything has an effect on the locker room, but that doesn't mean it's inherently bad, and it certainly doesn't mean that the new coach's job is in jeopardy as you want to imply.

You're the one who made the unfounded leap from bad press meaning that the locker room is embroiled in a chaos of controversy.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 01:50 PM
Ah Classic, the bridge for sale bit, original.

Everything has an effect on the locker room, but that doesn't mean it's inherently bad, and it certainly doesn't mean that the new coach's job is in jeopardy as you want to imply.

You're the one who made the unfounded leap from bad press meaning that the locker room is embroiled in a chaos of controversy.

Show me where I mentioned a bridge.

As to the bad press... ongoing soap opera that may dominate sports media for yet another month...there's no way to spin this as a good or positive thing. Individuals are going to have personal opinions. It's not an "unfounded leap" to say that the controversy "could" result in a divided locker room; that's usually exactly what happens. But there is a huge difference between saying it "could" and "meaning that the locker room is embroiled in a chaos of controversy". The longer this continues, the worse it is for the team IMHO though.

If this rookie HC trades Cutler, then his "honeymoon" will be over with a significant portion of the fanbase and local media... and then he will be under heavy pressure to win to woo them back. Any losses (even if it's to an elite team like the defending SB champion Steelers) will be met with harsh criticism and calls for him to be fired.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-22-2009, 01:56 PM
Klis pulled a punch there, and didn't tell the full truth...

Here is the correct paragraph:

Sure, there have been times when Bowlen wanted to tell management's side in this coach-quarterback dispute that has polarized Broncos Nation. But the message coming from Dove Valley since this controversey has begun has changed so much, nothing said publicly is taken at face value.

The correct paragraph has a spelling error?

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 01:58 PM
BFD. No one cares, Bob.

Tombstone RJ
03-22-2009, 02:01 PM
broncos
Bowlen staying out of drama
Owner never meddler
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 03/22/2009 12:30:00 AM MDT


"If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart. This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it." - Pat Bowlen, Broncos owner, on coach Josh McDaniels (Post file)Related Articles
Mar 22:
Goodell won't step in to solve Cutler messKiszla: Cook is no top chef in Jay-C messPaige: Griese can identify with Cutler's plightFans want more from Pat Bowlen.

Come on, Pat. Get involved. Step in. Take a stand. Soothe the storm. Help the young head coach. Pacify the quarterback.

Where, oh where, rant passionate Broncos fans, is Pat Bowlen during McJaygate?

Let's say the public wins. Bowlen, the Broncos' owner, bows to pressure and gets in the middle of the rift between his new coach, Josh McDaniels, and his Pro Bowl quarterback, Jay Cutler. And let's say Bowlen succeeds in forging a peace settlement.

Has anyone thought about the possible repercussions of the owner solving disagreements between coaches and players?

Bowlen's approach in the Cutler drama is consistent with how he's run the Broncos since he bought the franchise 25 years ago Monday. He oversees the organization; the head coach runs the team. And if one area bleeds into another, it's always about the team.

"I'm in the building and I'm in the room," Bowlen said. "But we have a young coach who is in charge of football operations and he's going to handle this. If I can offer advice, I'll do that. But I'm not going to step on him in the middle of this thing. That would not be smart.

"This is his first big challenge and I'm definitely in his camp. He'll handle it."

Although McDaniels is only 32, Bowlen saw enough maturity, energy and wisdom to hire the New England Patriots offensive coordinator to replace Mike Shanahan as the Broncos' head coach on Jan. 11.

Dove Valley has been in a perpetual state of transition ever since. Shanahan had gained so much authority during his 14-year coaching era with the Broncos, he made unilateral decisions. Last year, Shanahan worked out a two-year contract extension with one of his assistant coaches. Nothing extraordinary there, except Bowlen wasn't notified until later.

Regaining control of his franchise is one reason Bowlen dismissed Shanahan on Dec. 31. Since then, Bowlen has rebuilt a system of checks and balances inside team headquarters. McDaniels reports to Bowlen, as does general manager Brian Xanders and chief operating officer Joe Ellis.

The proposed trade that would have sent Cutler to Tampa Bay and New England quarterback Matt Cassel to Denver? It never crossed Bowlen's desk, which McDaniels said should signify he never seriously considered making the deal.

Nevertheless, Cutler was stung when he heard about it. Under Shanahan, Cutler was treated as a franchise quarterback — but more than once the head coach tore into his talented, if undisciplined, quarterback behind closed doors.

Cutler, though, never felt like anything other than his team's most important player. Shanahan built his roster around his gifted passer. The Broncos' top two picks in the 2008 draft were an offensive tackle and wide receiver. Indeed, when Cutler went to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl six weeks ago, he paid for his rookie left tackle, Ryan Clady, and rookie receiver Eddie Royal to join him.

Six weeks ago? The Pro Bowl must seem like six months ago to Cutler fans.

When McDaniels arrived, he brought "Patriot Way" principles. The Patriot Way allows stars. (See Tom Brady and Randy Moss.) But the Patriot Way will go out of its way to remind Brady and Moss they are not bigger than the team.

Only McDaniels can reset the culture at Dove Valley as he wants it, and attempt to repair a fractured relationship with his quarterback without splintering the infrastructure of his roster.

It hasn't been easy. Some would call McDaniels-Cutler a feuding fiasco.

Bowlen understands that criticism, but has decided to observe, listen and discuss, and empower his young coach to handle it.

"Pat is fully engaged in the situation concerning the quarterback," Ellis said. "He converses with Josh and Brian on a daily basis."

The breakdown with McDaniels has caused Cutler to formally request a trade, a demand he made a week ago. At least 10 teams have called to express interest, and the Broncos are listening. They will arrive at the NFL meetings that start today in Dana Point, Calif., with the intention of holding on to Cutler, but keeping their options open if the coach-quarterback relationship is irreparable.

There was a time during this ordeal when Cutler wanted to speak directly to Bowlen. Fine, Bowlen said. Bowlen preferred to meet face to face in his Dove Valley office, but Cutler has been staying in Nashville, Tenn., where he starred at Vanderbilt. Bowlen arranged for Cutler to call him on March 7. Cutler never called.

Sure, there have been times when Bowlen wanted to tell management's side in this coach-quarterback dispute that has polarized Broncos Nation. But the controversy is so charged with emotion, nothing said publicly is taken at face value.

"He would prefer this get worked out privately, rather than in a dialogue with the media," Ellis said. "That said, he recognizes that our fans deserve an explanation, and he intends to give one. Once the issue reaches a resolution."

On Monday, Bowlen will celebrate his 25th anniversary as Broncos owner. The occasion will be marked by a series of league meetings in hotel conference rooms, and a quarterback drama hovering ominously over his franchise. As Bowlen deals with league matters, McDaniels will deal directly with the Cutler issue.

However McJaygate plays out, Bowlen believes his coach will be the better for it.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11968834


I see the method to Bowlen's madness. Hope it works.

Broncos4tw
03-22-2009, 02:04 PM
This is the crux of the issue. People who think he's doing a crappy job of fixing the problem are ignoring what McDaniels is actually doing. He's not looking at Cutler as the thing that needs to be fixed.

In his eyes, it's the Broncos that need fixing, and therefore he's acting in perfect accord with his vision.

Um.. except that's not really the case, is it. Why would 'fixing' the Broncos including trading away your franchise QB? If that's his idea of fixing, I really wish he'd knock it off. Our needs were fully on defense and special teams. We needed massive fixes to those areas. Even with a crappy running game last year, our offense was #2 in the league. That does NOT NEED FIXING.

So... he tries to trade away the QB, gets rid of a long snapper to replace again, with a Patriot player.. c'mon.. can't you see he is trying to turn us into the Patriots? My gag reflex kicks in at the thought of it. I've not been a Bronco fan for as long as I have, to see our team torn apart so he can build it from scratch. People act like we were the lions or something.

So excuse me for not being super-exciting about a guy who think our offense needs serious work. His vision of 'fixing' our team just baffles me.

Popps
03-22-2009, 02:46 PM
Um.. except that's not really the case, is it. Why would 'fixing' the Broncos including trading away your franchise QB? .

When we have a franchise QB, let me know. That begins with winning games and being an unquestioned team leader.

Our needs were fully on defense and special teams. We needed massive fixes to those areas. Even with a crappy running game last year, our offense was #2 in the league. That does NOT NEED FIXING..

We were mediocre at scoring. We're also running a new system. These things happen when you change coaching staff. It's a new system. Players may be replaced.

xciting about a guy who think our offense needs serious work. His vision of 'fixing' our team just baffles me.

Clearly.

Conversely, excuse the rest of us who have some optimism about the future and believe in the vision of building an actual team, instead of a fantasy football quarterback and nothing else to speak of.

I'll take wins over QB yardage numbers any day.

SportinOne
03-22-2009, 03:14 PM
When we have a franchise QB, let me know. That begins with winning games and being an unquestioned team leader.


Okay, i said i was staying out of this, but THIS keeps coming up over and over and over and I while I am not saying Cutler is completely innocent or that the front office is wrong, (in fact i'm not saying anything at all like that) if THIS is really the kind of logic you are using to determine that Cutler is replaceable it really makes me question the logic you are using in everything else you comment on.

If you don't think Cutler is a franchise quarterback, that is fine. But then I want to know who you think, out of all the quarterbacks in the NFL, could have done more than Cutler did with this team last year.

True, he needs to grow up. True he needs to be a better leader off the field. But I didn't see anyone complaining when Cutler was leading late fourth quarter drives the last couple years and, for the most part, coming through when we really needed him. Was he not a leader then?

I will give you this, it is easy to be cool headed when everything is fine, and we learned a little about him when he didn't react well to McDaniels, but he takes charge on the field and he is always fighting tooth and nail for the extra yards, as well as throwing blocks against linebackers and safeties when the situation arises.

If you want to say he's not a franchise quarterback because he's not a complete team leader like Peyton Manning, I will accept that. I just don't think that you should base this decision entirely, or really at all, on the TEAM's record.

SportinOne
03-22-2009, 03:23 PM
Clearly.

Conversely, excuse the rest of us who have some optimism about the future and believe in the vision of building an actual team, instead of a fantasy football quarterback and nothing else to speak of.

I'll take wins over QB yardage numbers any day.

I just don't think you really understand, Popps. I really do not. You ARE aware that our offense and defense do not take the field at the same time right? You ARE aware that Cutler could not control how many points the defense gave up right? So it's not as if when the defense improves Cutler will all of a sudden get worse.

If you DO understand all of that, do you understand that if we have a top 10 defense last year we are not even having this conversation? Do you understand that the only thing separating Cutler from being an 8-8 Scrub QB last year and a 12-4 FRANCHISE QB was the worst defense in Bronco history? How do you not see that? Are you assuming Cutler would have crumbled under the pressure of having a lead to work with once in a while?

Sorry if i come off as condescending, i just don't think there is any other way to say it.

Popps
03-22-2009, 03:23 PM
Okay, i said i was staying out of this, but THIS keeps coming up over and over and over and I while I am not saying Cutler is completely innocent or that the front office is wrong, (in fact i'm not saying anything at all like that) if THIS is really the kind of logic you are using to determine that Cutler is replaceable it really makes me question the logic you are using in everything else you comment on.

If you don't think Cutler is a franchise quarterback, that is fine. But then I want to know who you think, out of all the quarterbacks in the NFL, could have done more than Cutler did with this team last year.

True, he needs to grow up. True he needs to be a better leader off the field. But I didn't see anyone complaining when Cutler was leading late fourth quarter drives the last couple years and, for the most part, coming through when we really needed him. Was he not a leader then?

I will give you this, it is easy to be cool headed when everything is fine, and we learned a little about him when he didn't react well to McDaniels, but he takes charge on the field and he is always fighting tooth and nail for the extra yards, as well as throwing blocks against linebackers and safeties when the situation arises.

If you want to say he's not a franchise quarterback because he's not a complete team leader like Peyton Manning, I will accept that. I just don't think that you should base this decision entirely, or really at all, on the TEAM's record.


I basically agree with all of that, and he very well may end up a franchise QB. He's immensely talented. I just don't believe he has franchise-QB-leverage right at this stage. That's just my opinion. I think he's got to prove a bit more before he holds an organization at gunpoint.

But, the gist of your post... I agree with.

SportinOne
03-22-2009, 03:26 PM
I basically agree with all of that, and he very well may end up a franchise QB. He's immensely talented. I just don't believe he has franchise-QB-leverage right at this stage. That's just my opinion. I think he's got to prove a bit more before he holds an organization at gunpoint.

But, the gist of your post... I agree with.

Okay, then disregard my second post.. I was misunderstanding you the entire time. And you are right, he DOES NOT have that leverage yet.. I was just convinced that you didn't think he was any good!

Popps
03-22-2009, 03:28 PM
I just don't think you really understand, Popps. I really do not. You ARE aware that the offense and defense do not take the field at the same time right? You ARE aware that Cutler could not control how many points the defense gave up right? So it's not as if when the defense improves Cutler will all of a sudden get worse.

If you DO understand all of that, do you understand that if we have a top 10 defense last year we are not even having this conversation? Do you understand that the only thing separating Cutler from being an 8-8 Scrub QB last year and a 12-4 FRANCHISE QB was the worst defense in Bronco history? How do you not see that? Are you assuming Cutler would have crumbled under the pressure of having a lead to work with once in a while?

Sorry if i come off as condescending, i just don't think there is any other way to say it.

You haven't been condescending. So, I'll try to pay you the same respect...

Again, I basically agree with most of your premise. Jay didn't get defensive support last year. No one disagrees with that. Not sure how long you've read posts here, but I've been bitching about our defense since I joined the board. That's basically my MO.

But, I also think Jay has some issues separate from our defense. I think he's very talented, and I HOPE HE STAYS... but he's not in a position to be demanding guarantees and putting a gun to our heads, whether or not he's miffed about a trade rumor.

In other words, to me... Elway was a franchise QB. He CARRIED teams on his back. He snatched victories when most QBs couldn't. Guys ran through walls for him. He didn't mope on the field. He played harder when the team was down.

He would have found a way to win that Buffalo game... defense or not. That's just my opinion.

Do I thin Jay is talented? Of course. Do I want him to stay? If he wants to stay... yes. I'm just stopping short of saying he's a franchise QB, and stopping WAY short of saying we're DOOMED without him.

Popps
03-22-2009, 03:28 PM
Okay, then disregard my second post.. I was misunderstanding you the entire time. And you are right, he DOES NOT have that leverage yet.. I was just convinced that you didn't think he was any good!

Oops, we're lapping each other. :)

I definitely think he's good. Maybe great.

MplsBronco
03-22-2009, 03:33 PM
No, he lied, Popps... he's not controlling the team, the Patriot is. He wields Shanahan-esque power and that's why the team is fubar'ed. You're right that I don't like the team being fubar'ed.

More drama. Good god, Jay was NOT traded. And if he were, it would have to run through Bowlen first. I can't wait till Shanny gets hired so posters like you can go to their new team.

MplsBronco
03-22-2009, 03:37 PM
Did you read any of the article, dimwit? Clearly not.

The whole point is that McDaniels has to run things through Pat, and the fact that he didn't means that it never got to the level where they were actually considering pulling the trigger.

Hard to believe some on here cannot or will not grasp this simplest of facts.

SportinOne
03-22-2009, 03:47 PM
Oops, we're lapping each other. :)

I definitely think he's good. Maybe great.

Yeah, this really just needs to end. I do think McDaniels could be great for our organization and especially great for Cutler. I think once they get on the field together and realize each other's talents this will be water under the bridge. Winning cures all.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 04:15 PM
More drama. Good god, Jay was NOT traded. And if he were, it would have to run through Bowlen first. I can't wait till Shanny gets hired so posters like you can go to their new team.

That isn't gonna happen 'cause despite efforts to paint it that way, those of us who disagree with your viewpoint have shown nothing whatsoever to indicate that we're bandwagon fans.

Broncos4tw
03-22-2009, 04:58 PM
Meh, it just goes 'round and round. If you really think that a QB with the talent of Jay Cutler should be replaced because of a 'new system,' nothing I can say will change your mind. It was a stupid, green, ignorant, dumb move, and many analysts and pros have said as much. When you take over a team, one would think the first order of business is to shore up the weak spots first. NOT take down a strong point first. It was lunacy, and that you support it just proves you really DO hate Cutler, and you clearly want him out of town, regardless of whatever lip service you try to give.

I CAN say I think Jay is being petulant, and needs to overstep his agent, and take this into his own hands. However, you are living in a fantasy, if you really think a professional can just 'ignore' the fact his boss lied to his face and keep working for him without a hitch.

I think it is in the Broncos best interest to do one of a few things. Either get rid of Cutler, and get either a QB and running tandem that will make up the loss of productivity, to keep us up there in offense. OR to get a QB that is equal to him, or can play within this magical 'system' that will score boatloads of points. A mediocre QB isn't going to get it done. Or, they need to swallow their pride, and kiss Cutler's butt and get him back on the team. One of those needs to happen, or it's going to be one crappy year ahead.

I personally don't see us doing # 2, obviously we cannot get Cassel now. I guess we could do #1, although I think the 'system' is going to take years to build honestly. The best fast solution would be to do whatever it takes to get Jay back on the team.

Also, it gets tiring to hear how 'medicore' Jay supposedly is. "Oh.. he is average, he MIGHT be great, one day though!" But bullcrap. He is solid NOW. People choose to ignore the fact that our defense didn't do anything to support him. How many interceptions did we manage last year? Oh yea.. SIX! Last in the NFL. I'm sure that really helped Jay out. Our average field position also doesn't help, nor giving the other team half the field.

I guess the # of actual unbiased people out there who want our team to actually WIN are few. I can say: It's Jay's fault.. it's our new coaches fault. They COULD fix it, if they wanted to. Jay should grow up some, but he probably won't. But he IS the best thing for this team. He does get along with players great, I don't get where he isn't a 'team' person. He has given his all until this monumental blunder by McD. Bowlen should be more involved. He just doesn't want to step on his own D!@& since he is the one who fired Shanny. Of course McD has his full support.

For people who supposedly want our team to win, it sure doesn't seem that way. Who gives a crap if Jay is whining. Get him back on the team. There is no reason to drag our offense into the gutter with our defense.

Oh.. and unless you folks can produce a SOURCE with facts about a supposed new demanded contract, stop using that as some sort of 'proof' that Jay is being greedy, and that's the only reason he is doing this. I've not seen a damn thing about a proposed contract. His agent flat out denied it.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 05:17 PM
Show me where I mentioned a bridge. They're euphemisms for the exact same thing. Sorry, I'll be sure not to assume you can keep up.

As to the bad press... ongoing soap opera that may dominate sports media for yet another month...there's no way to spin this as a good or positive thing. Individuals are going to have personal opinions. It's not an "unfounded leap" to say that the controversy "could" result in a divided locker room; that's usually exactly what happens. But there is a huge difference between saying it "could" and "meaning that the locker room is embroiled in a chaos of controversy". The longer this continues, the worse it is for the team IMHO though. Again, this is based on an assumption in your own mind. For all you know this soap opera is exactly what this team needs. But god forbid we rock that perfectly balanced locker room boat. Balanced by an equal number of wins and losses, btw.

If this rookie HC trades Cutler, then his "honeymoon" will be over with a significant portion of the fanbase and local media... and then he will be under heavy pressure to win to woo them back. Any losses (even if it's to an elite team like the defending SB champion Steelers) will be met with harsh criticism and calls for him to be fired.
So what? Do you think McDaniels cares a scrap about "honeymoons" and media perception? He cares about wins. If he gets them he'll be fine, if he doesn't, he'll be gone like any other coach.

It's really that simple, the rest is just fabricated fluff from people who thought Cutler was the savior and can't get over the fact that the new coach doesn't see it that way.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 05:24 PM
That isn't gonna happen 'cause despite efforts to paint it that way, those of us who disagree with your viewpoint have shown nothing whatsoever to indicate that we're bandwagon fans.
There have been a number of thank yous from people on the waiting list for season tickets who got them sooner than expected because of people jumping ship over poor Cutler, and more than a handful of people on here saying they won't support the new coach or Bowlen any more by going to games.

I'm pretty sure that demonstrates the definition of bandwagneers.

barryr
03-22-2009, 05:55 PM
I could see people wanting to jump ship if this team was a Super Bowl team or near one at least, but since it wasn't, I dont understand that stuff.

If the team doesn't win within a few years, and I mean at least making the playoffs, McDaniels will be gone and if Cutler was still the QB, probably the new coach would be looking to replace him. That's just the way things work.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 06:26 PM
They're euphemisms for the exact same thing. Sorry, I'll be sure not to assume you can keep up.

Again, this is based on an assumption in your own mind. For all you know this soap opera is exactly what this team needs. But god forbid we rock that perfectly balanced locker room boat. Balanced by an equal number of wins and losses, btw.


So what? Do you think McDaniels cares a scrap about "honeymoons" and media perception? He cares about wins. If he gets them he'll be fine, if he doesn't, he'll be gone like any other coach.

It's really that simple, the rest is just fabricated fluff from people who thought Cutler was the savior and can't get over the fact that the new coach doesn't see it that way.

They're both euphemisms used in connection with people who are espousing a totally unrealistic belief (ie: the gullible) like that this entire Cutler/McDaniels fiasco could possibly be given a positive spin or have a positive effect on the team. That's an absolutely risible position to take.

So you believe that players... most of whom shared a locker room with Cutler last season... have no opinions and care nothing about the controversy? Again, ludicrous.

Yes, I do think that the Patriot probably does care about whether the fans and media give him a scintilla of a chance or if they're ready to tar and feather him with the first regular season loss. Clamor from both groups if he fails to win immediately (and with our schedule, that's not a "given") has the power to affect his job security by putting pressure on Bowlen to cut him loose.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 06:28 PM
There have been a number of thank yous from people on the waiting list for season tickets who got them sooner than expected because of people jumping ship over poor Cutler, and more than a handful of people on here saying they won't support the new coach or Bowlen any more by going to games.

I'm pretty sure that demonstrates the definition of bandwagneers.

So those who have to let their season tickets go this year due to financial constraints are now "bandwagoners"? Nice.

broncogary
03-22-2009, 06:46 PM
So those who have to let their season tickets go this year due to financial constraints are now "bandwagoners"? Nice.

Yeah, where's the bail-out when you need it? :kiddingme

Popps
03-22-2009, 06:51 PM
They're both euphemisms used in connection with people who are espousing a totally unrealistic belief (ie: the gullible) like that this entire Cutler/McDaniels fiasco could possibly be given a positive spin or have a positive effect on the team. That's an absolutely risible position to take. .

What was said was, I wouldn't be surprised if this eventually unified the team.
Teams that have to endure bull**** like this often cite these events as ones that pulled them together... particularly once the thing has been resolved one way or another.

Again, you've got a guy like Champ Bailey having to answer questions from the media about life after Jay Cutler and why they should even bother playing the games. You don't think Pros like Champ and Brian D. get sick of being told they're **** without one player?

Tell you what, BF... want to make a little wager on it? I'll bet you that AT LEAST ONE Broncos player eventually cites this turn of events as one that helped bring the team together. As in, they got through it and were better off because of it.

Little wager? You name the stakes.

broncogary
03-22-2009, 06:52 PM
Sorry if i come off as condescending, i just don't think there is any other way to say it.

Is it even possible to be condescending to Popps? :~ohyah!:

baja
03-22-2009, 06:57 PM
They're both euphemisms used in connection with people who are espousing<b> a totally unrealistic belief (ie: the gullible) like that this entire Cutler/McDaniels fiasco could possibly be given a positive spin or have a positive effect on the team. </b>That's an absolutely risible position to take.

So you believe that players... most of whom shared a locker room with Cutler last season... have no opinions and care nothing about the controversy? Again, ludicrous.

Yes, I do think that the Patriot probably does care about whether the fans and media give him a scintilla of a chance or if they're ready to tar and feather him with the first regular season loss. Clamor from both groups if he fails to win immediately (and with our schedule, that's not a "given") has the power to affect his job security by putting pressure on Bowlen to cut him loose.

Gotta disagree with you here Blue. There are endless cases of what appears to be a bad situation turning out to have an unexpected positive effect in the outcome of the saga.

Popps
03-22-2009, 07:01 PM
Gotta disagree with you here Blue. There are endless cases of what appears to be a bad situation turning out to have an unexpected positive effect in the outcome of the saga.

There are too many to list. It's almost a yearly occurrence in the NFL.

baja
03-22-2009, 07:03 PM
For example Blue;


This truth leads to an application to our own lives. I would like to make that application through a story, an ancient story from the Taoist religion. A poor Chinese farmer owned one horse. One day that horse ran away up into the mountains. The farmer’s neighbor came to him and said, “My dear friend, I am so sorry for your bad news.” The farmer said, “Bad news, good news, who knows? Time will tell.” A couple weeks later, the horse returned and brought with it another horse that it had found up in the mountains. Now the farmer had two horses. Again his neighbor came to him and said, “Congratulations, my dear friend, on your good news.” The farmer responded, “Good news bad news, who knows? Time will tell.” The farmer gave his new horse to his son who rode it around the countryside. One day when he was riding, he fell off the horse and broke his leg. So the neighbor returned again. This time he was more cautious. He said, “Well your son broke his leg. That sounds like bad news, but maybe it’s not.” The farmer said, “Bad news good news, who knows? Time will tell.” A couple weeks after that the Emperor of China declared war against Japan. He sent his troop to all the cities of his country to forcibly conscript young men to fight in battle. But when they came to the farmer’s son they passed him by and let him stay with his family because he had broken his leg. The neighbor and the farmer time agreed that this was good news.

broncogary
03-22-2009, 07:06 PM
For example Blue;


This truth leads to an application to our own lives. I would like to make that application through a story, an ancient story from the Taoist religion. A poor Chinese farmer owned one horse. One day that horse ran away up into the mountains. The farmer’s neighbor came to him and said, “My dear friend, I am so sorry for your bad news.” The farmer said, “Bad news, good news, who knows? Time will tell.” A couple weeks later, the horse returned and brought with it another horse that it had found up in the mountains. Now the farmer had two horses. Again his neighbor came to him and said, “Congratulations, my dear friend, on your good news.” The farmer responded, “Good news bad news, who knows? Time will tell.” The farmer gave his new horse to his son who rode it around the countryside. One day when he was riding, he fell off the horse and broke his leg. So the neighbor returned again. This time he was more cautious. He said, “Well your son broke his leg. That sounds like bad news, but maybe it’s not.” The farmer said, “Bad news good news, who knows? Time will tell.” A couple weeks after that the Emperor of China declared war against Japan. He sent his troop to all the cities of his country to forcibly conscript young men to fight in battle. But when they came to the farmer’s son they passed him by and let him stay with his family because he had broken his leg. The neighbor and the farmer time agreed that this was good news.

And so the war was lost.

baja
03-22-2009, 07:07 PM
Point is Blue at this juncture you can't know it this a bad thing!

baja
03-22-2009, 07:08 PM
And so the war was lost.


Which made way for a great Saint to be born

broncogary
03-22-2009, 07:10 PM
Which made way for a great Saint to be born

But we're Bronco fans, not Saint fans. Hilarious!

baja
03-22-2009, 07:12 PM
But we're Bronco fans, not Saint fans. Hilarious!

Maybe you should reread the parable it is the story of not one but two Broncos.

broncogary
03-22-2009, 07:16 PM
Maybe you should reread the parable it is the story of not one but two Broncos.

Ha! Now I see your point. Ha!

DrFate
03-22-2009, 07:34 PM
First of all, its clear Bowlen is very much involved giving advice and direction to both McD and Xanders but very rightly so is letting them actually do the working it out based on their discussions and internal agreement.

If the CEO hires a VP, and the first move the VP makes is he sets the building on fire, 'rightly letting them actually do the working' isn't what I'd call it.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 07:35 PM
Um.. except that's not really the case, is it. Why would 'fixing' the Broncos including trading away your franchise QB? If that's his idea of fixing, I really wish he'd knock it off. Our needs were fully on defense and special teams. We needed massive fixes to those areas. Even with a crappy running game last year, our offense was #2 in the league. That does NOT NEED FIXING.

So... he tries to trade away the QB, gets rid of a long snapper to replace again, with a Patriot player.. c'mon.. can't you see he is trying to turn us into the Patriots? My gag reflex kicks in at the thought of it. I've not been a Bronco fan for as long as I have, to see our team torn apart so he can build it from scratch. People act like we were the lions or something.

So excuse me for not being super-exciting about a guy who think our offense needs serious work. His vision of 'fixing' our team just baffles me.If your 'franchise QB' is sub .500 there's either something wrong with your definition of a 'franchise QB' or the problems with your team are too great to be overcome by a singular force.

Either way it's easy to reason that there are ways in which trading him away can make the whole better. You're simply, like many here, unable to get beyond the emotion which you've attached to Cutler.

Of course he's trying to turn us in the Patriots, they've been the best franchise in the salary cap era. Why on earth wouldn't he be trying to turn us into the Patriots?

Those of us who support McDaniels aren't acting like we're the Lions, we're acting like we've missed the playoffs for the last 3 years and have won a single playoff game in the last decade. Which, btw, is nothing but the facts.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 07:37 PM
If the CEO hires a VP, and the first move the VP makes is he sets the building on fire, 'rightly letting them actually do the working' isn't what I'd call it.

And what if the insurance on the building effectively doubles the value of the company?

DrFate
03-22-2009, 07:44 PM
And what if the insurance on the building effectively doubles the value of the company?

Then he goes to jail for arson.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 07:46 PM
They're both euphemisms used in connection with people who are espousing a totally unrealistic belief (ie: the gullible) like that this entire Cutler/McDaniels fiasco could possibly be given a positive spin or have a positive effect on the team. That's an absolutely risible position to take. It's naive to imagine that it's not possible.

So you believe that players... most of whom shared a locker room with Cutler last season... have no opinions and care nothing about the controversy? Again, ludicrous.Completely incorrect. I believe that it's entirely possible that people who went 8-8 with Cutler last year, and listened to him blame everyone but himself in the off-season could buy into the team concept and become disenfranchised with a guy who seems to think he's above that. Then rally together against the pundits who spout that they can't have success without their "franchise QB".

Yes, I do think that the Patriot probably does care about whether the fans and media give him a scintilla of a chance or if they're ready to tar and feather him with the first regular season loss. Clamor from both groups if he fails to win immediately (and with our schedule, that's not a "given") has the power to affect his job security by putting pressure on Bowlen to cut him loose.I like how you've put your words of the day calendar to use in an attempt to appear like you've got a grasp of what's going on here.

However, you're failure to consider the other side still shines a light on the flaws in your take.

Dedhed
03-22-2009, 07:48 PM
Then he goes to jail for arson.Not if he's good enough.

DrFate
03-22-2009, 07:51 PM
Not if he's good enough.

:rofl:

DrFate
03-22-2009, 07:54 PM
I'm not a big fan of the Jones and the Snyders who have to truly 'run' their own franchise. They bought the team, it's their call. But I've always liked Bowlen hiring his 'football people' and letting them run the team.

That said, I don't understand why he's let this go this long. The buck ultimately 'stops' with him. I think McDaniel is in over his head and this drama cannot help this team.

Rock Chalk
03-22-2009, 08:14 PM
These two things stand out. The problem with Bowlen's thinking is that while it is perfectly defensible to let his head coach "cut his teeth" and gain experience in problematic situations without interfering, this isn't an ordinary problematic situation. This is a crisis of huge magnitude. In many ways, the future of the franchise will be substantially altered by its resolution. It is not an ordinary crisis. In these truly exigent circumstances, the owner MUST intervene, whether or not the coach is a rookie. Did Bowlen sit back and allow Reeves to just handle the feud with Elway when it came to a head in 1992? No. He recognized that while he usually takes a hands off approach, when there is a crisis of truly monumentous proportions, he must intervene, because it affects the future of the franchise.

The second line is very disturbing. It suggests that Jay definitely will be traded. It's almost as if they're saying, when we get him out of here then we'll tell you what (they believe) happened. If the "resolution" was a positive one, then there would be no need to explain anything, because rehashing it would have no positive purpose if they've already moved on. This is sad. :(

What stands out to me is that Bowlen thinks less of Jay Cutler than SoCalBronco does. Bowlen also doesnt seem to think its as big of a deal as SoCalBronco does.

And since Bowlen's approach has netted one of the most successful teams in the last 25 years AND most consistent, I believe I will let Bowlen be Bowlen and let SoCal whine and cry and bitch and moan and then jump off the bandwagon when the time comes.

Rock Chalk
03-22-2009, 08:17 PM
I'm not a big fan of the Jones and the Snyders who have to truly 'run' their own franchise. They bought the team, it's their call. But I've always liked Bowlen hiring his 'football people' and letting them run the team.

That said, I don't understand why he's let this go this long. The buck ultimately 'stops' with him. I think McDaniel is in over his head and this drama cannot help this team.

IF Jay is the one keeping this drama playing out it doesnt matter what Bowlen or McDaniels try to do.

All signs point to McD having tried to make ammends and Jay refusing to listen to reason.

Alex brought up a good point. Why would McDaniels purposefully try to ruin his first coaching gig? Why would want to go over things with jay and then all of a sudden trade him? Well, the Cassell deal came along and McD said "You know, we should look into this" and it fell through and since then he has REPEATEDLY stated that they are not interested in trading Cutler. REPEATEDLY stated. Yet Jay still wants out? And you people still want him? He has turned his back on this team and their fans and you people still want him? Why? Its pretty obvious at this point that no matter what McDaniels does, Jay wont play for him and Bowlen stepping in isnt going to solve the issue. Jay is a big fat bitch and has turned his back on teh Broncos and their fans. **** him.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-22-2009, 08:54 PM
http://www.khanya.co.za/blogs/images/head_in_sand.jpg

broncogary
03-22-2009, 09:09 PM
http://www.khanya.co.za/blogs/images/head_in_sand.jpg

Bob's favorite position. Ha!

Sorry I quoted him.

watermock
03-22-2009, 10:58 PM
For example Blue;


This truth leads to an application to our own lives. I would like to make that application through a story, an ancient story from the Taoist religion. A poor Chinese farmer owned one horse. One day that horse ran away up into the mountains. The farmer’s neighbor came to him and said, “My dear friend, I am so sorry for your bad news.” The farmer said, “Bad news, good news, who knows? Time will tell.” A couple weeks later, the horse returned and brought with it another horse that it had found up in the mountains. Now the farmer had two horses. Again his neighbor came to him and said, “Congratulations, my dear friend, on your good news.” The farmer responded, “Good news bad news, who knows? Time will tell.” The farmer gave his new horse to his son who rode it around the countryside. One day when he was riding, he fell off the horse and broke his leg. So the neighbor returned again. This time he was more cautious. He said, “Well your son broke his leg. That sounds like bad news, but maybe it’s not.” The farmer said, “Bad news good news, who knows? Time will tell.” A couple weeks after that the Emperor of China declared war against Japan. He sent his troop to all the cities of his country to forcibly conscript young men to fight in battle. But when they came to the farmer’s son they passed him by and let him stay with his family because he had broken his leg. The neighbor and the farmer time agreed that this was good news.

A pulley fell from a barn roof on my dads head, and he was in a coma 3 weeks, and forever had bad headaches and neck pain. But was 4f and wasnt drafted, he was 21 when we entered the war. Good or bad?

watermock
03-22-2009, 11:01 PM
And what if the insurance on the building effectively doubles the value of the company?

BTW, the new owner of the WTC tripled his insurance shortly before it was attacked.

DenverBrit
03-22-2009, 11:17 PM
Bob's favorite position. Ha!

Sorry I quoted him.

He makes a decent bike rack, otherwise, useless.