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View Full Version : Jay Cutler To the Browns? No Chance


HEAV
03-21-2009, 12:00 PM
by Kendall Murray

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/142602-jay-cutler-to-the-browns-no-chance


The Jay Cutler to Cleveland rumors have (as rumors do) taken on a life of its own. The problem with this is that it will never happen. Any reasonable analysis of the first few months of the Mangini era in Cleveland will reveal that a deal for Cutler is nothing more than a pipe dream.

First, let's take a look at how these rumors came to be.

Once the Cutler/McDaniels feud reached a fever pitch and the trade talk began in earnest, reporters began to ask the questions they always do in these situations. High on the list of questions is, "Where might Cutler end up," which quickly leads to, "Who has the pieces to land him."

Very quickly, the Browns became part of the discussion since they have:

1.) a quarterback in Derek Anderson who, despite his difficulties last season, has put together a Pro Bowl season, and

2.) a quarterback in Brady Quinn who was a first-round draft choice who hasn't had enough game experience to show what he's capable of.

The earliest of these "trade speculations" involved Cleveland as part of various three-way deals involving teams such as Washington, Detroit, and the Jets. In all of these scenarios, the Broncos would have received either Anderson or Quinn (and more), and the third team would receive Cutler, with the Browns obtaining various picks and/or players.

Very quickly (and irrationally, I might add), people began just eliminating the third team altogether and suggesting that Cleveland was somehow interested in Cutler.

The only reason Cleveland became part of the discussion in the first place, is because of the perception that they have two potential starters and would presumably be willing to ship one. The idea that they would get Cutler back wouldn't solve this problem for them, in that the QB who didn't get moved in the deal would be a reluctant and disgruntled backup to Cutler.

Cleveland also seemed a possible destination because they are trying to recoup some of the picks that Phil Savage traded away. Even after the Winslow deal, the Browns only have five picks in this year's draft.

Now let's take a look at Mangini's approach to rebuilding the Browns.

First, he basically hired his own hand-picked GM in George Kokinis. Kokinis wasn't even on owner Randy Lerner's radar when Mangini suggested him for the GM job. It's unclear how the power-sharing works in the Cleveland front office since the new regime has been so secretive.

However, make no mistake, Mangini is the driving force behind the early personnel moves. Former Jets LBs David Bowens and Eric Barton, DB Hank Poteat and DL C.J. Mosley all signed with the Browns in recent weeks, and a fifth Jet, S Abram Elam, was signed to an offer sheet that the Jets matched.

In addition to the former Jets on the roster, other recent Browns signees include TE Robert Royal, S Mike Adams, OL Floyd Womack, OL John St. Clair, DB Corey Ivy, and RB Noah Herron.

Meanwhile, the team traded away one of its most talented, but troubling players in Kellen Winslow. They also released WR Joe Jurevicious and OT Kevin Shaffer after asking them to take a pay cut.

Mangini is trying to create competition for jobs on his new team. He's brought in guys he's worked with before and guys who are versatile. All of the new linemen and linebackers can play multiple positions, and most of these guys have excelled on special teams.

One thing you don't see here is a superstar; in fact, not one of these guys is guaranteed a starting job.

Keep in mind, Mangini comes from the Belichick tree.

He and McDaniels both share the philosophy that no one player is above the team. It's no secret that Mangini was not in favor of bringing in Favre, and that experience alone would sour him on the idea of bringing in Cutler—a player who has quickly become more well-known for his whining off the field than for the promise he has shown on it.

Wherever Cutler might end up, he is likely going to ask his new coach the same question he reportedly asked McDaniels in their recent face-to-face, "What guarantees can you give me that I won't be traded?" Mangini would tell him exactly what McDaniels did: that he has a responsibility to listen to any and all offers and he will make the decisions he feels are in the best interest of the team. That's precisely the approach that sent Cutler crying in Bus Cook's arms.

The reality of the situation is that Cutler would be as unhappy under Mangini as he has been (sort of) under McDaniels. On the flip side, Mangini has no interest in the ego-driven superstar type as his first personnel move (the trade of Winslow) proved.

I'm a life-long Browns fan and honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about the Mangini era coming to Cleveland. I'll root hard, but I can't say I'm crazy about all that I've seen so far. I sincerely hope he knows what he's doing.

Nonetheless, it's become rather clear that Mangini has a philosophy in terms of how he's going about rebuilding this team. For him to turn around and make a trade for Cutler would go against that philosophy.

The possibility still exists that Cleveland could be involved in a three-way deal that doesn't involve Cutler coming to Cleveland (I'd call it possible, but doubtful). What I'm saying here is that the likelihood of Jay Cutler wearing a Browns uniform next year is about the same as T.O. keeping his mouth shut next season.

In fact, if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on T.O.

barryr
03-21-2009, 12:25 PM
"1.) a quarterback in Derek Anderson who, despite his difficulties last season, has put together a Pro Bowl season, and"

For those that like to point out that Cutler has proven himself simply by making the Pro Bowl, might want to read that part again. Also, good point that Mangini is cut from the same cloth as McDaniels and just went throught a season with the Jets with Favre taking chances and throwing bad picks, so not sure he's that excited going with a QB who has a rep. for doing that too.

WolfpackGuy
03-21-2009, 12:31 PM
The thought of Derek Anderson just made me throw up in my mouth.

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 12:33 PM
"1.) a quarterback in Derek Anderson who, despite his difficulties last season, has put together a Pro Bowl season, and"

For those that like to point out that Cutler has proven himself simply by making the Pro Bowl, might want to read that part again. Also, good point that Mangini is cut from the same cloth as McDaniels and just went throught a season with the Jets with Favre taking chances and throwing bad picks, so not sure he's that excited going with a QB who has a rep. for doing that too.

Mangini may "be cut from the same cloth as McDaniels"... but he also (like many of "the Belichick coaching tree") failed miserably and was fired from his first HC job.

barryr
03-21-2009, 12:37 PM
Mangini may "be cut from the same cloth as McDaniels"... but he also (like many of "the Belichick coaching tree") failed miserably and was fired from his first HC job.

That may be, but that doesn't mean he'd want Cutler unless could get him cheaply of course.

2KBack
03-21-2009, 12:37 PM
Mangini may "be cut from the same cloth as McDaniels"... but he also (like many of "the Belichick coaching tree") failed miserably and was fired from his first HC job.

what does that have to do with what he's saying?

DenverBrit
03-21-2009, 12:40 PM
Wherever Cutler might end up, he is likely going to ask his new coach the same question he reportedly asked McDaniels in their recent face-to-face, "What guarantees can you give me that I won't be traded?" Mangini would tell him exactly what McDaniels did: that he has a responsibility to listen to any and all offers and he will make the decisions he feels are in the best interest of the team. That's precisely the approach that sent Cutler crying in Bus Cook's arms.


The heart of the matter. :thumbsup:

Popps
03-21-2009, 12:45 PM
Mangini may "be cut from the same cloth as McDaniels"... but he also (like many of "the Belichick coaching tree") failed miserably and was fired from his first HC job.


It's everyone else, not me! THEY'RE the one's that are crazy... NOT ME!!!

:rofl:

Rock Chalk
03-21-2009, 12:45 PM
Mangini may "be cut from the same cloth as McDaniels"... but he also (like many of "the Belichick coaching tree") failed miserably and was fired from his first HC job.

Hmm, So was Shanahan.

broncofan
03-21-2009, 12:46 PM
lol ...this website again, huh?

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 12:55 PM
Hmm, So was Shanahan.

The point is that when multiple "disciples" from a single coaching tree all flame out, then perhaps being "cut from the same cloth" might not be a good thing for the team that just hired the newest one.

Drek
03-21-2009, 12:57 PM
Mangini may "be cut from the same cloth as McDaniels"... but he also (like many of "the Belichick coaching tree") failed miserably and was fired from his first HC job.

Failed miserably?

Two winning seasons in three years, took the team to the playoffs their first year, and he would have had them back this year if Brett Favre hadn't gone rouge on him and stopped running the plays that were called.

Thats failing miserably? The Jets have more winning seasons and playoff appearances than we do in the last three years, FYI.

He got fired because the team caved down the stretch (mostly because Favre can't keep from making mistakes) and the ownership just wanted to clean all the animosity out of the organization.

Funny how Jets fans had nicknamed him "Mangenius" just two years ago and now suddenly he "failed miserably".

lex
03-21-2009, 01:07 PM
Failed miserably?

Two winning seasons in three years, took the team to the playoffs their first year, and he would have had them back this year if Brett Favre hadn't gone rouge on him and stopped running the plays that were called.

Thats failing miserably? The Jets have more winning seasons and playoff appearances than we do in the last three years, FYI.

He got fired because the team caved down the stretch (mostly because Favre can't keep from making mistakes) and the ownership just wanted to clean all the animosity out of the organization.

Funny how Jets fans had nicknamed him "Mangenius" just two years ago and now suddenly he "failed miserably".

The person who said he failed miserably is a Jets fan?

Finger Roll
03-21-2009, 01:08 PM
Failed miserably?

Two winning seasons in three years, took the team to the playoffs their first year, and he would have had them back this year if Brett Favre hadn't gone rouge on him and stopped running the plays that were called.

Thats failing miserably? The Jets have more winning seasons and playoff appearances than we do in the last three years, FYI.

He got fired because the team caved down the stretch (mostly because Favre can't keep from making mistakes) and the ownership just wanted to clean all the animosity out of the organization.

Funny how Jets fans had nicknamed him "Mangenius" just two years ago and now suddenly he "failed miserably".

I agree. He did a much better job in New York than most people give him credit for

HEAV
03-21-2009, 01:18 PM
The point is that when multiple "disciples" from a single coaching tree all flame out, then perhaps being "cut from the same cloth" might not be a good thing for the team that just hired the newest one.


It's now clear that TJ only hires MOD's that share his Shanny-love mentality...not to mention a little off thier respective rockers...

HEAV
03-21-2009, 01:23 PM
I agree. He did a much better job in New York than most people give him credit for


Hell ya he did! Mang didn't want zero part of Favre, he wanted to keep Chad and give the guy another year. Chad makes the playoffs and Favre just kinda faided as the year got into Dec.

But again Mang beat the Titans this year, a titan team that was the fav of many to be in the superbowl during their hot streak.

Mang didn't deserve to be fired. When forced to deal with the Farve issue.

lex
03-21-2009, 01:24 PM
Hell ya he did! Mang didn't want zero part of Favre, he wanted to keep Chad and give the guy another year. Chad makes the playoffs and Favre just kinda faided as the year got into Dec.

But again Mang beat the Titans this year, a titan team that was the fav of many to be in the superbowl during their hot streak.

Mang didn't deserve to be fired. When forced to deal with the Farve issue.


Who is to say that the Jets make the playoffs with Pennington. He doesnt exactly have a strong arm and that comes into play more in NY than Miami.

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 01:36 PM
It's now clear that TJ only hires MOD's that share his Shanny-love mentality...not to mention a little off thier respective rockers...

The word "hires" indicates that we get paid. Newsflash: we don't. We do the job only because we truly care about the OrangeMane community. It's a very tough, thankless job, but someone has to do it.

Br0nc0Buster
03-21-2009, 01:38 PM
Who is to say that the Jets make the playoffs with Pennington. He doesnt exactly have a strong arm and that comes into play more in NY than Miami.

The point is he didnt "fail miserably" and he did not deserve to be fired
And it doesnt matter whose arm is stronger between Favre's and Pennington's, Pennington played better than Favre last year.

Favre was garbage towards the end of the season

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 01:44 PM
The point is he didnt "fail miserably" and he did not deserve to be fired
And it doesnt matter whose arm is stronger between Favre's and Pennington's, Pennington played better than Favre last year.

Favre was garbage towards the end of the season

He was 23-25 in 3 seasons.... when your teams lose more games than they win, firing the HC isn't at all surprising. I'm guessing that the 4-12 '07 season already had Mangini on thin ice.

lex
03-21-2009, 01:45 PM
The point is he didnt "fail miserably" and he did not deserve to be firedAnd it doesnt matter whose arm is stronger between Favre's and Pennington's, Pennington played better than Favre last year.

Favre was garbage towards the end of the season


According to whom? And regarding your remark about arm strength. Favres shortcoming wasnt his armstrength. Again, thats been an issue with Pennington in the past while playing in NY. He didnt just magically develop more arm strength. His lack of arm strength didn hurt as much in Miami. Tahts an observation specific to Pennington. I was talking about Pennington. Why you referred to Favre, Im not sure but it wasnt really relevant. Favre and Pennington are distinctly different cases. Theyre two QBs with different strengths and weaknesses.

Nice try though, Tumbleweed.

HEAV
03-21-2009, 01:46 PM
Who is to say that the Jets make the playoffs with Pennington. He doesnt exactly have a strong arm and that comes into play more in NY than Miami.


Ya you're so right... I mean the Fins play 16 games at home and never play @ NE,NY or Buffalo in DECEMBER...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2008.htm

Once again LEX show's he's just a insane,full of crap troll.

HEAV
03-21-2009, 01:47 PM
He was 23-25 in 3 seasons.... when your teams lose more games than they win, firing the HC isn't at all surprising. I'm guessing that the 4-12 '07 season already had Mangini on thin ice.



So was Shanny...yet you homer's wanted to keep him:welcome:

barryr
03-21-2009, 01:47 PM
The expectations for the Jets this past season, warranted or not, were really high after they got Favre. I remember many predictions in the media of the Jets going to the Super Bowl. The Jets' talent level was overestimated to say the least.

barryr
03-21-2009, 01:49 PM
So was Shanny...yet you homer's wanted to keep him:welcome:


Good point, not to mention 10 years with only 1 playoff win to show. You can only use 2 Super Bowl trophies for so long until one wonders if it'll ever happen again and the way it was going, not anytime soon.

lex
03-21-2009, 01:49 PM
Ya you're so right... I mean the Fins play 16 games at home and never play @ NE,NY or Buffalo in DECEMBER...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2008.htm

Once again LEX show's he's just a insane,full of crap troll.


3/16 < 25%

HEAV
03-21-2009, 01:50 PM
According to whom? And regarding your remark about arm strength. Favres shortcoming wasnt his armstrength. Again, thats been an issue with Pennington in the past while playing in NY. He didnt just magically develop more arm strength. His lack of arm strength didn hurt as much in Miami. Tahts an observation specific to Pennington. I was talking about Pennington. Why you referred to Favre, Im not sure but it wasnt really relevant. Favre and Pennington are distinctly different cases. Theyre two QBs with different strengths and weaknesses.

Nice try though, Tumbleweed.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9959/ist24947593screwball.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ist24947593screwball.jpg)

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 01:51 PM
So was Shanny...yet you homer's wanted to keep him:welcome:

If you think that, then you must have missed the part where I've repeatedly said... if keeping Shanahan meant also keeping Slowik, then Shanahan had to go. With a defense as pathetic as ours has been since Coyer was fired, something has to change.

Oh, and 4-12 is "failing miserably"... to a Raiders level almost. Except the Raiders do it more consistently.

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 01:59 PM
Failed miserably?

Two winning seasons in three years, took the team to the playoffs their first year, and he would have had them back this year if Brett Favre hadn't gone rouge on him and stopped running the plays that were called.

Thats failing miserably? The Jets have more winning seasons and playoff appearances than we do in the last three years, FYI.

He got fired because the team caved down the stretch (mostly because Favre can't keep from making mistakes) and the ownership just wanted to clean all the animosity out of the organization.

Funny how Jets fans had nicknamed him "Mangenius" just two years ago and now suddenly he "failed miserably".

Firstly, are you making the claim that Belicheck disciples shouldn't be involved in personnel decisions regarding quarterbacks? :wiggle:

Secondly, do you have any evidence of that actually happening?

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 02:00 PM
Hell ya he did! Mang didn't want zero part of Favre, he wanted to keep Chad and give the guy another year. Chad makes the playoffs and Favre just kinda faided as the year got into Dec.

But again Mang beat the Titans this year, a titan team that was the fav of many to be in the superbowl during their hot streak.

Mang didn't deserve to be fired. When forced to deal with the Farve issue.

Couldn't be more wrong. Par for the course for you, though.

400HZ
03-21-2009, 02:00 PM
The expectations for the Jets this past season, warranted or not, were really high after they got Favre. I remember many predictions in the media of the Jets going to the Super Bowl. The Jets' talent level was overestimated to say the least.

They were a very good team once they got things rollings a couple games into the season. They had a good defense and a top run game. Favre just screwed them. Their talent wasn't overestimated, the move at quarterback just ended up hurting them rather than helping them.

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 02:11 PM
For Drek, Heav, and the rest of the uneducated, "Mangini got stuck with Brett! He didn't want him!" crew:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3636994

As pledged, Mangini gives son middle name Brett in QB's honor

Comment (http://myespn.go.com/conversation/story?id=3636994) Email (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3636994#) Print (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3636994&type=story) Share (javascript:void(0);)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> var stobj = SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title:"As%20promised,%20Mangini%20names%20son%20after%20n ew%20QB", url:"http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3636994", published: "2008-10-11" }); stobj.attachButton(document.getElementById("espnstlink")); </SCRIPT>
<CITE class=source>Associated Press
</CITE>
<!-- end mod-article-title --><!-- begin story body --><!-- isa photo --><!-- template inline -->FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- There's a new Brett in Eric Mangini's life.
Zack Brett Mangini was born early Friday -- also Brett Favre (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=112)'s 39th birthday -- and the New York Jets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyj) coach and his wife, Julie, gave their third son a middle name fit for an iconic, gunslinging quarterback.
[+] Enlargehttp://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/1010/nfl_g_favre_mangini_300.jpg (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3636994#) <CITE>Al Pereira/Getty Images</CITE>Eric Mangini told Brett Favre he would name his third son after him if he signed with the Jets.


"I think he thinks it's pretty cool," Mangini said of Favre. "I think the more interesting, ironic, I don't know what word you'd use, is the fact he was born on Brett's birthday."

The newest member of the Mangini family was born at 7:43 a.m., weighing in at 7 pounds and 13 ounces and was 20 inches long with "very, very healthy lungs." A beaming Mangini, wearing a hospital bracelet around his left wrist, said the baby and his wife were "happy, healthy, so we're all excited."
Mangini committed to using the middle name, Brett, when he and the Jets were trying to get Favre to come to New York in the summer.
"The odds of the child being born on the same day as my birthday, I don't know what the odds are," Favre said. "He told me that today was the day and I asked, 'Well, is he still going to be Brett?' He said, 'Yeah, Zack Brett.' ... The odds, in some respects, are a lot like me. What were the odds of me ever coming to the Jets?
"It is a pretty cool thing." <!-- PULL-QUOTE (BEGIN) -->
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/story/design07/dropQuote.gif Well, the history behind that is all my kids have middle names that are related to people that have been important to me in my football career. http://assets.espn.go.com/i/story/design07/dropQuoteEnd.gif

-- Jets coach Eric Mangini

<!-- PULL-QUOTE (END) -->Special middle names are nothing new for the Mangini family. Their first son, Jake Harrison, who's 4˝, is named after New England safety Rodney Harrison (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=597). Their 2˝-year-old son, Luke William, is named in honor of Patriots coach Bill Belichick.

"Well, the history behind that," Mangini explained, "is all my kids have middle names that are related to people that have been important to me in my football career."
Mangini has also enjoyed professional success after each of his first two sons were born, both coincidentally on Feb. 26. Following Jake's birth in 2004, the Patriots went on to win the Super Bowl -- with Harrison intercepting two passes in the victory over Philadelphia. After Luke's birth two years later, Mangini led the Jets to the playoffs in his first season as coach.
So, when the Jets were recruiting the NFL's career leader in touchdown throws, Mangini made the middle name a negotiating chip.
"I explained that history and explained that we were pregnant with our third child," Mangini said. "I really believed that he could be an instrumental part in another good year and an important part of my football life and I would commit to Zack Brett Mangini at that point. That was part of our terms, and we stuck with it."
Mangini said the baby's middle name was going to be Brett even if the two didn't share the same birthday.
"That was locked and loaded in the negotiations," Mangini said with a smile, "but we couldn't have planned that if we wanted to. Pretty exciting."
Despite the middle name, Mangini isn't too optimistic that his youngest son will become an NFL quarterback.
"I don't like my odds there," Mangini said with a grin. "Just judging by how I throw, every male in our respective families throw, we tend to breed linemen on both sides. Maybe he'll change the equation."

lex
03-21-2009, 02:17 PM
For Drek, Heav, and the rest of the uneducated, "Mangini got stuck with Brett! He didn't want him!" crew:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3636994

As pledged, Mangini gives son middle name Brett in QB's honor

Comment (http://myespn.go.com/conversation/story?id=3636994) Email (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3636994#) Print (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3636994&type=story) Share (javascript:void(0);)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> var stobj = SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title:"As%20promised,%20Mangini%20names%20son%20after%20n ew%20QB", url:"http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3636994", published: "2008-10-11" }); stobj.attachButton(document.getElementById("espnstlink")); </SCRIPT>
<CITE class=source>Associated Press
</CITE>
<!-- end mod-article-title --><!-- begin story body --><!-- isa photo --><!-- template inline -->FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- There's a new Brett in Eric Mangini's life.
Zack Brett Mangini was born early Friday -- also Brett Favre (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=112)'s 39th birthday -- and the New York Jets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyj) coach and his wife, Julie, gave their third son a middle name fit for an iconic, gunslinging quarterback.
[+] Enlargehttp://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/1010/nfl_g_favre_mangini_300.jpg (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3636994#) <CITE>Al Pereira/Getty Images</CITE>Eric Mangini told Brett Favre he would name his third son after him if he signed with the Jets.


"I think he thinks it's pretty cool," Mangini said of Favre. "I think the more interesting, ironic, I don't know what word you'd use, is the fact he was born on Brett's birthday."

The newest member of the Mangini family was born at 7:43 a.m., weighing in at 7 pounds and 13 ounces and was 20 inches long with "very, very healthy lungs." A beaming Mangini, wearing a hospital bracelet around his left wrist, said the baby and his wife were "happy, healthy, so we're all excited."
Mangini committed to using the middle name, Brett, when he and the Jets were trying to get Favre to come to New York in the summer.
"The odds of the child being born on the same day as my birthday, I don't know what the odds are," Favre said. "He told me that today was the day and I asked, 'Well, is he still going to be Brett?' He said, 'Yeah, Zack Brett.' ... The odds, in some respects, are a lot like me. What were the odds of me ever coming to the Jets?
"It is a pretty cool thing." <!-- PULL-QUOTE (BEGIN) -->
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/story/design07/dropQuote.gif Well, the history behind that is all my kids have middle names that are related to people that have been important to me in my football career. http://assets.espn.go.com/i/story/design07/dropQuoteEnd.gif

-- Jets coach Eric Mangini

<!-- PULL-QUOTE (END) -->Special middle names are nothing new for the Mangini family. Their first son, Jake Harrison, who's 4˝, is named after New England safety Rodney Harrison (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=597). Their 2˝-year-old son, Luke William, is named in honor of Patriots coach Bill Belichick.

"Well, the history behind that," Mangini explained, "is all my kids have middle names that are related to people that have been important to me in my football career."
Mangini has also enjoyed professional success after each of his first two sons were born, both coincidentally on Feb. 26. Following Jake's birth in 2004, the Patriots went on to win the Super Bowl -- with Harrison intercepting two passes in the victory over Philadelphia. After Luke's birth two years later, Mangini led the Jets to the playoffs in his first season as coach.
So, when the Jets were recruiting the NFL's career leader in touchdown throws, Mangini made the middle name a negotiating chip.
"I explained that history and explained that we were pregnant with our third child," Mangini said. "I really believed that he could be an instrumental part in another good year and an important part of my football life and I would commit to Zack Brett Mangini at that point. That was part of our terms, and we stuck with it."
Mangini said the baby's middle name was going to be Brett even if the two didn't share the same birthday.
"That was locked and loaded in the negotiations," Mangini said with a smile, "but we couldn't have planned that if we wanted to. Pretty exciting."
Despite the middle name, Mangini isn't too optimistic that his youngest son will become an NFL quarterback.
"I don't like my odds there," Mangini said with a grin. "Just judging by how I throw, every male in our respective families throw, we tend to breed linemen on both sides. Maybe he'll change the equation."

ouch

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 02:20 PM
ouch

Personally, I think Mangini's past is completely irrelevant to whatever McDaniels will do/has done here.

That's why I really don't understand their misinformation campaign...

lex
03-21-2009, 02:25 PM
Personally, I think Mangini's past is completely irrelevant to whatever McDaniels will do/has done here.

That's why I really don't understand their misinformation campaign...

Perhaps but this thread was addressing the idea that the Browns may try to get Cutler.

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2009, 02:31 PM
Mangini may "be cut from the same cloth as McDaniels"... but he also (like many of "the Belichick coaching tree") failed miserably and was fired from his first HC job.

Mangini may have some of the same philosophies as McD, but you can't say he failed miserably when Favre was forced down his throat. The article clearly shows that he did not want to bring in a prima donna QB. Now he has his own hand picked GM and the chances of Cutler going to the Browns is remote.

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 02:33 PM
Mangini may have some of the same philosophies as McD, but you can't say he failed miserably when Favre was forced down his throat. The article clearly shows that he did not want to bring in a prima donna QB. Now he has his own hand picked GM and the chances of Cutler going to the Browns is remote.

OMFG.

Are you guys all on queue with lies?

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 02:38 PM
Mangini may have some of the same philosophies as McD, but you can't say he failed miserably when Favre was forced down his throat. The article clearly shows that he did not want to bring in a prima donna QB. Now he has his own hand picked GM and the chances of Cutler going to the Browns is remote.

4-12 "is" failure... and Favre wasn't his QB that year; Pennington was.

Players of Cutler's potential simply aren't usually made available... any team that isn't "set" at QB (Saints, Colts, Giants, etc.) would be inept if they don't at least explore what it would take to get him.

summerdenver
03-21-2009, 02:56 PM
Looking at the posts from Heav like "Cutler is bad idea for Team X", it is becoming clear to me that teams are finding out what a looser Jay Cutler is. Without throwing a single pass since the season ended, he has deteriorated from being one of the up and coming young stars to a pariah, Wow.

Broncos should get rid of him quickly. With each passing day more teams will figure out that he is after all 17-20 and we will be stuck with the whiny bitch longer. Let's do our part int his and run this bum out of town.

Archer81
03-21-2009, 03:00 PM
Or Jay is not going anywhere, and all of this has been an overhyped mess driven by the media and conflicting stories.


:Broncos:

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:02 PM
Or Jay is not going anywhere, and all of this has been an overhyped mess driven by the media and conflicting stories.


:Broncos:

If this were Plummer, no one would care. However, we've got a premier QB on the market before his prime, so it's a HUGE deal, because that simply does NOT happen.

SoCalBronco
03-21-2009, 03:04 PM
This is your brain.

http://www.medem.com/medem/images/ama/ama_brain_stroke_lev20_thebraineffectsstroke_01.gi f

This is your brain on drugs.

Looking at the posts from Heav like "Cutler is bad idea for Team X", it is becoming clear to me that teams are finding out what a looser Jay Cutler is. Without throwing a single pass since the season ended, he has deteriorated from being one of the up and coming young stars to a pariah, Wow.

Broncos should get rid of him quickly. With each passing day more teams will figure out that he is after all 17-20 and we will be stuck with the whiny b**** longer. Let's do our part int his and run this bum out of town.

Any questions?

This public service announcement was brought to you by:
http://business.clemson.edu/CUSSP/DARE.gif

Archer81
03-21-2009, 03:05 PM
If this were Plummer, no one would care. However, we've got a premier QB on the market before his prime, so it's a HUGE deal, because that simply does NOT happen.



I dont think it is that huge a deal, and I dont think Jay is going anywhere. More time that passes better off both sides will be to get whatever the hell happened resolved and done with.


:Broncos:

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:07 PM
I dont think it is that huge a deal, and I dont think Jay is going anywhere. More time that passes better off both sides will be to get whatever the hell happened resolved and done with.


:Broncos:

...and if you're a fan of one of the other 25 teams without a marquee QB and Cutler's tentatively available, you don't want to hear about it or talk about it?

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:08 PM
This is your brain.

http://www.medem.com/medem/images/ama/ama_brain_stroke_lev20_thebraineffectsstroke_01.gi f

This is your brain on drugs.



Any questions?

This public service announcement was brought to you by:
http://business.clemson.edu/CUSSP/DARE.gif


It was sarcasm, Mike.

He was making fun of Heav's dumb ass.

summerdenver
03-21-2009, 03:08 PM
This is your brain.

http://www.medem.com/medem/images/ama/ama_brain_stroke_lev20_thebraineffectsstroke_01.gi f

This is your brain on drugs.



Any questions?

This public service announcement was brought to you by:
http://business.clemson.edu/CUSSP/DARE.gif

In case it was not obvious, I was being sarcastic.

The most amazing part of the whole deal to me is how quickly people have turned against Jay. It was almost like they want him out of town and that is sad. Whatever are his faults, Jay gave his all on the field. He does not deserve this crapola.

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:09 PM
I hope..........

SoCalBronco
03-21-2009, 03:09 PM
Ahh...I did not detect the sarcasm. My bad.

Archer81
03-21-2009, 03:13 PM
...and if you're a fan of one of the other 25 teams without a marquee QB and Cutler's tentatively available, you don't want to hear about it or talk about it?



Yeah, they would. But what good does it do on this board to post article after article or poll after poll stating either position on who started what? We all hope Jay stays, because we are a better football team with him here, but if he goes, he goes. Not alot we can do about it if they really want him gone.


:Broncos:

lex
03-21-2009, 03:15 PM
Yeah, they would. But what good does it do on this board to post article after article or poll after poll stating either position on who started what? We all hope Jay stays, because we are a better football team with him here, but if he goes, he goes. Not alot we can do about it if they really want him gone.

:Broncos:

You can stop going to games. Stop buying Sunday Ticket. Stop buying Broncos merchandise. You can also be vocal. One person speaking out doesnt do much but if everyone is honest and outspoken then the backlash becomes less difficult to guage.

Archer81
03-21-2009, 03:18 PM
You can stop going to games. Stop buying Sunday Ticket. Stop buying Broncos merchandise. You can also be vocal. One person speaking out doesnt do much but if everyone is honest and outspoken then the backlash becomes less difficult to guage.



Yup. Doing that AFTER Jay is gone is really going to get him back if he is traded.


:Broncos:

chaz
03-21-2009, 03:19 PM
Hmm, So was Shanahan.

um... do you struggle with reading? or just chose to ignore the context of that comment intentionally? "failed miserably and were fired..." is not Shanahan.

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:23 PM
Yeah, they would. But what good does it do on this board to post article after article or poll after poll stating either position on who started what? We all hope Jay stays, because we are a better football team with him here, but if he goes, he goes. Not alot we can do about it if they really want him gone.


:Broncos:

Because it directly concerns all Bronco fans...

lex
03-21-2009, 03:24 PM
Yup. Doing that AFTER Jay is gone is really going to get him back if he is traded.


:Broncos:

Youre right in that what you mentioned provides a greater incentive to speak out now, but beyond that, you dont have much of a point.

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 03:24 PM
In case it was not obvious, I was being sarcastic.

The most amazing part of the whole deal to me is how quickly people have turned against Jay. It was almost like they want him out of town and that is sad. Whatever are his faults, Jay gave his all on the field. He does not deserve this crapola.

It's like... not only do they want him gone, they want the Broncos to be barely able to get anything at all for him (denying that he has much value; minimizing every accomplishment and talent he has) and then they want him to struggle mightily, with zero success for the rest of his career stuck in some pathetic franchise that picks in the top 10 perennially with no shot at the playoffs. All because he has a personality clash with the new coach.

lex
03-21-2009, 03:26 PM
um... do you struggle with reading? or just chose to ignore the context of that comment intentionally? "failed miserably and were fired..." is not Shanahan.

Broncosbuster does this a lot too. It must be a Kansas thing, which is weird since their teacher to student ratio has to be very favorable...since there are only 472 people in the state.

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2009, 03:29 PM
OMFG.

Are you guys all on queue with lies?

What lies?

Archer81
03-21-2009, 03:29 PM
Youre right in that what you mentioned provides a greater incentive to speak out now, but beyond that, you dont have much of a point.


Speak out about what? I dont believe Jay is in the right here. His attitude and demeanor are hardly indicitive of a franchise QB. Like I said in a couple of different threads, you dont reward a tantrum. You ignore it.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:32 PM
What lies?

That Mangini didn't want Favre.

I posted a MASSIVE article only a couple posts above yours pertaining to that EXACT situation.

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2009, 03:33 PM
OMFG.

Are you guys all on queue with lies?

Never mind, I didn't read down the entire thread when I posted about Blue's comments.

That being said, I guess the guy who wrote the first article is a complete liar.

lex
03-21-2009, 03:34 PM
That Mangini didn't want Favre.

I posted a MASSIVE article only a couple posts above yours pertaining to that EXACT situation.

Whats sad is he asks this when the post you are referring to was like only a couple of posts above his. How oblivious can you get.

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:37 PM
Never mind, I didn't read down the entire thread when I posted about Blue's comments.

That being said, I guess the guy who wrote the first article is a complete liar.

You mean a writer from a credible source like "bleacherreport" might be making **** up?!?!?

What is this world coming to?!?

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:38 PM
Whats sad is he asks this when the post you are referring to was like only a couple of posts above his. How oblivious can you get.

Unrelated. I like Tombstone, I just don't agree with this current take on Cutler/McD.

We should hire Angelina Jolie from Wanted.

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2009, 03:40 PM
Whats sad is he asks this when the post you are referring to was like only a couple of posts above his. How oblivious can you get.

:thumbsup:

this coming from a poster who is perfect! :P

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:51 PM
:thumbsup:

this coming from a poster who is perfect! :P

Gotta correct you again... I didn't write it.

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2009, 03:56 PM
Gotta correct you again... I didn't write it.

Read it again, I was quoting lex, not you. He comes off as pompus on the post I quoted.

See, crappy reading happens all the time. Congrats.:thanku:

summerdenver
03-21-2009, 03:58 PM
It's like... not only do they want him gone, they want the Broncos to be barely able to get anything at all for him (denying that he has much value; minimizing every accomplishment and talent he has) and then they want him to struggle mightily, with zero success for the rest of his career stuck in some pathetic franchise that picks in the top 10 perennially with no shot at the playoffs. All because he has a personality clash with the new coach.

I understand the position of people taking side of broncos in this but I don't get the animosity against Jay. Its really sad.

TheReverend
03-21-2009, 03:58 PM
Read it again, I was quoting lex, not you. He comes off as pompus on the post I quoted.

See, crappy reading happens all the time. Congrats.:thanku:

Sadly, you missed it.

I was sending the message that I'm perfect, and playing on your statement...

SportinOne
03-21-2009, 03:59 PM
So, I don't think us fans ever really got a clear explanation on this. Is Cutler subject to trade like the rest of the roster or is he "not going to be traded", or is he an unhappy camper that has to go? The front office likes to change their story a bit so i'm just wondering.

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2009, 04:00 PM
Sadly, you missed it.

I was sending the message that I'm perfect, and playing on your statement...

Yah, I missed that.

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 04:07 PM
I understand the position of people taking side of broncos in this but I don't get the animosity against Jay. Its really sad.

That's what I meant, too... it's in the Broncos' best interests to get a Ricky-Williams-type return for Cutler; not the haters' wish of no one wanting to give up more than a 7th-rounder for him. And once he's traded (assuming it's not to a division rival team), then why the hatred that wants to see him fail to achieve his potential and be miserable for the remainder of his career? If he's not a Bronco, who cares whether he succeeds or fails?

Br0nc0Buster
03-21-2009, 04:35 PM
According to whom? And regarding your remark about arm strength. Favres shortcoming wasnt his armstrength. Again, thats been an issue with Pennington in the past while playing in NY. He didnt just magically develop more arm strength. His lack of arm strength didn hurt as much in Miami. Tahts an observation specific to Pennington. I was talking about Pennington. Why you referred to Favre, Im not sure but it wasnt really relevant. Favre and Pennington are distinctly different cases. Theyre two QBs with different strengths and weaknesses.

Nice try though, Tumbleweed.

Armstrength doesnt matter if you suck.
Likewise just because Pennington doesnt have a cannon doesnt mean he couldnt succeed in wind.
Pennington wasnt necessarily a terrible player, he just couldnt stay healthy, but then again NONE of Herm's qbs stay healthy with his caveman offense.
The Jets were a crappy team when Mangini took over because Herm drove them into the ground.
They made the playoffs once and almost again

I never said Mangini was a great coach, but he did an ok job bringing them from suck to playoff contention.

I have a hard time seeing how making the playoffs once and almost again in 3 years after taking over for a 4-12 team is "failing miserably"

And why the **** do you keep brining up Kansas everytime I post?
Why does that matter to you?
Its pretty weak, especially coming from a person who calls our coach "McJerkface"

Br0nc0Buster
03-21-2009, 04:42 PM
Broncosbuster does this a lot too. It must be a Kansas thing, which is weird since their teacher to student ratio has to be very favorable...since there are only 472 people in the state.

Are you the same person who started a thread about a supposed quote that Popps never said?

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 04:55 PM
Armstrength doesnt matter if you suck.
Likewise just because Pennington doesnt have a cannon doesnt mean he couldnt succeed in wind.
Pennington wasnt necessarily a terrible player, he just couldnt stay healthy, but then again NONE of Herm's qbs stay healthy with his caveman offense.
The Jets were a crappy team when Mangini took over because Herm drove them into the ground.
They made the playoffs once and almost again

I never said Mangini was a great coach, but he did an ok job bringing them from suck to playoff contention.

I have a hard time seeing how making the playoffs once and almost again in 3 years after taking over for a 4-12 team is "failing miserably"

And why the **** do you keep brining up Kansas everytime I post?
Why does that matter to you?
Its pretty weak, especially coming from a person who calls our coach "McJerkface"

The words "failing miserably" were mine. And Mangini didn't just "take over for a 4-12 team", he fielded one in 2007. If "Herm drove them into the ground" to get a 4-12 record, then one has to apply the same standard to Mangini, right? Noteworthy is the fact that Edwards also had the team at 10-6 (Mangini's best record) twice (2001 and 2004)... and Edwards had a better win/loss record (by 2 games; 25-23) in his first 3 seasons with the Jest than Mangini's 3-year record.

barryr
03-21-2009, 05:01 PM
Too many fall in love with the QB arm strength thinking that means greatness. There have been QB's with great arms that didn't do much in the NFL and those not considered to have guns that had good, if not great, careers. There is much more to the position than being able to throw hard.

Broncojef
03-21-2009, 05:07 PM
I understand the position of people taking side of broncos in this but I don't get the animosity against Jay. Its really sad.

I think most of us who sided against jay don't hate him we just don't want him rewarded for throwing a tantrum with a long contract. It also seems silly when people call Jay the franchise and threaten us with the we'll be set back 10 years if hes traded crap. To date jay is an exciting player with lots of upside but he has just as many crappy games as good ones. His attitude, health and leadership qualities are all question marks to date and his play on the field is not commesurate to putting up with the offseason we have all had to endure. No animosity if he wants to stay, cool, just shut-up and play. Show us you are the nontradeable player you think you are cause to date two firsts and a QB seems like overpayment to me.

lex
03-21-2009, 06:06 PM
Are you the same person who started a thread about a supposed quote that Popps never said?

No. He said it. And when given every reason to deny thats what he meant, he never stepped up. But lets get back to the Kansas guys their struggles.

summerdenver
03-21-2009, 08:49 PM
I think most of us who sided against jay don't hate him we just don't want him rewarded for throwing a tantrum with a long contract. It also seems silly when people call Jay the franchise and threaten us with the we'll be set back 10 years if hes traded crap. To date jay is an exciting player with lots of upside but he has just as many crappy games as good ones. His attitude, health and leadership qualities are all question marks to date and his play on the field is not commesurate to putting up with the offseason we have all had to endure. No animosity if he wants to stay, cool, just shut-up and play. Show us you are the nontradeable player you think you are cause to date two firsts and a QB seems like overpayment to me.


I am not sure where Jay said he is not tradeable. He <S>asked</S> demanded Broncos to be honest with him. Blame him for being stubborn and not letting things go but not for this.

I think where Broncos have won the war in the media is that they have succeeded in painting this as a individual vs team issue, thereby masking the actual gaffee - trading Jay cutler for Matt Cassel. You see people all over the place are debating whether Jay is overrated or if he is team player whereas they should have been discussing why the f#$% did Broncostried to trade him in the first place - when there are holes all over the defensive side.

This is a panic move IMHO because of the inexperience of the FO. What this has done is - it painted Jay as a prima donna - and made it a win/loss situation for one of the parties. Once it got to that point, and if Jay does not blink, they are in a no win situation. If they give in to Jay, they will loose the locker room and if they don't they will loose a very good young QB.

For the record, I have no problem with Jay asking for an extension - remember this is the same team that ruthlessly dumped Al Freaking Wilson when he got hurt. Al had a contract with the team but that did not seem to have made any difference to the Broncos. There is no loyalty in nfl and Broncos made it very clear while insisting that they will do whatever that helps the team. Is there any doubt that if Jay or even coach's favorites like Paxton/Gaffney gets hurt while playng the game, they will unceremoniusly release the player without even blinking. What is wrong with jay asking for a contract extension? I don't buy the argument that Bowlen can't afford to pay him now, After all they were prepared to give a new deal to Matt Cassel.

BabyTO
03-21-2009, 08:58 PM
Not that piece of **** website again...

HEAV
03-21-2009, 09:27 PM
On the surface, Eric Mangini's downfall began five weeks ago, when the Jets started a late-season meltdown with an ugly loss to the Broncos. In reality, it started much earlier, with the blockbuster trade for Brett Favre in August.

Although he publicly supported the acquisition of the future Hall of Fame quarterback, Mangini wasn't the driving force behind the acquisition, according to two people familiar with the team's thinking. Even though he expressed concerns at the time, the people said, Mangini welcomed Favre, adjusted the entire offense and tried to make it work.

In the end, Favre contributed to the late-season slide with nine interceptions and only two touchdown passes in the final five games. That doomed Mangini, but the third-year coach also hurt himself with questionable decisions and coaching practices throughout the season, according to several players who spoke to the Daily News on the condition of anonymity.

Ironically, Mangini began the season as Mr. Popularity, dramatically reducing the practice load. That "made it easier to come to the building every day and be motivated to work," Chris Baker said. But, along the way, other issues developed for Mangini, who had lost the taskmaster reputation that he developed in his first two seasons.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2008/12/29/2008-12-29_eric_manginis_end_with_the_jets_began_wi.html

It's coming out now that Mangini wasn't totally on board with the decision to bring in Favre. Asked if he got the sense when the Jets released him, Pennington said, ``I didn't know who was pushing the idea.''

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2009/01/pennington_doesnt_blame_mangin.html


He may have "middle" named his kid after the guy, but insiders in NY reported that he didn't want Brett.

BroncoInferno
03-21-2009, 10:05 PM
Personally, I think Mangini's past is completely irrelevant to whatever McDaniels will do/has done here.

This is my point. The notion that Crennel, Weiss, and Mangini allegedly "failing miserably" (I say "allegedly" because all three have had fine seasons as coaches) has absolutely no relevance in terms of whether or not McDaniels will succeed in Denver.

Blueflame
03-21-2009, 10:51 PM
This is my point. The notion that Crennel, Weiss, and Mangini allegedly "failing miserably" (I say "allegedly" because all three have had fine seasons as coaches) has absolutely no relevance in terms of whether or not McDaniels will succeed in Denver.

None of them immediately threw their new teams into total chaos either... or started their new HC jobs by being the headline story on all NFL media (and not in a good way) for weeks.

Br0nc0Buster
03-22-2009, 10:39 AM
The words "failing miserably" were mine. And Mangini didn't just "take over for a 4-12 team", he fielded one in 2007. If "Herm drove them into the ground" to get a 4-12 record, then one has to apply the same standard to Mangini, right? Noteworthy is the fact that Edwards also had the team at 10-6 (Mangini's best record) twice (2001 and 2004)... and Edwards had a better win/loss record (by 2 games; 25-23) in his first 3 seasons with the Jest than Mangini's 3-year record.

Herm took over a team after Parcells
Herm did not take over a crappy team
With the exception of that one year, Herm's team kept getting worse.

Herm has proven through 7 seasons or however long that he is a bad coach.
Mangini took over a bad team and had them in playoff contention twice in three years.
There was a hiccup, but it is safe to say that Parcells knows how to build a team a bit better than Herm

Hercules Rockefeller
03-22-2009, 10:58 AM
Man, what an awesome article. We should all put stock in it too since it's basically a message board post by a fan. Someone from the Mane should sign up there and post an article, then other sites can pretend that it has some legitimacy to it and discuss it.

rastaman
03-22-2009, 11:47 AM
I am not sure where Jay said he is not tradeable. He <S>asked</S> demanded Broncos to be honest with him. Blame him for being stubborn and not letting things go but not for this.

I think where Broncos have won the war in the media is that they have succeeded in painting this as a individual vs team issue, thereby masking the actual gaffee - trading Jay cutler for Matt Cassel. You see people all over the place are debating whether Jay is overrated or if he is team player whereas they should have been discussing why the f#$% did Broncostried to trade him in the first place - when there are holes all over the defensive side.

This is a panic move IMHO because of the inexperience of the FO. What this has done is - it painted Jay as a prima donna - and made it a win/loss situation for one of the parties. Once it got to that point, and if Jay does not blink, they are in a no win situation. If they give in to Jay, they will loose the locker room and if they don't they will loose a very good young QB.

For the record, I have no problem with Jay asking for an extension - remember this is the same team that ruthlessly dumped Al Freaking Wilson when he got hurt. Al had a contract with the team but that did not seem to have made any difference to the Broncos. There is no loyalty in nfl and Broncos made it very clear while insisting that they will do whatever that helps the team. Is there any doubt that if Jay or even coach's favorites like Paxton/Gaffney gets hurt while playng the game, they will unceremoniusly release the player without even blinking. What is wrong with jay asking for a contract extension? I don't buy the argument that Bowlen can't afford to pay him now, After all they were prepared to give a new deal to Matt Cassel.

Rep! :thumbsup: Best thread I've read on the entire 11 Jaygate pages/thread.

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 01:55 PM
Herm took over a team after Parcells
Herm did not take over a crappy team
With the exception of that one year, Herm's team kept getting worse.

Herm has proven through 7 seasons or however long that he is a bad coach.
Mangini took over a bad team and had them in playoff contention twice in three years.
There was a hiccup, but it is safe to say that Parcells knows how to build a team a bit better than Herm

Doesn't matter. 4-12 is Raider-esque levels of fail. Shanahan's Broncos were never below 6-10.

Br0nc0Buster
03-22-2009, 02:02 PM
Doesn't matter. 4-12 is Raider-esque levels of fail. Shanahan's Broncos were never below 6-10.

Ok Dick Vermeil went 4-12 in 98 with the Rams
I guess he was a failure to huh?

I mean that was "Raider-esque" failure right there

Blueflame
03-22-2009, 02:08 PM
Ok Dick Vermeil went 4-12 in 98 with the Rams
I guess he was a failure to huh?

I mean that was "Raider-esque" failure right there

Yes. That season he experienced Raider-esque failure.