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Taco John
03-20-2009, 12:35 AM
Broncos dance party: Ten teams like Cutler
The team has listened but is telling suitors it wants to keep its angry QB.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post


If the Broncos decide to formally put Jay Cutler up for trade, they won't have trouble finding partners.

An NFL source said "more than 10" teams have called the Broncos this week inquiring about Cutler.

In most instances, those teams communicated nothing more than interest should Cutler become available. The Broncos have listened but have told all comers their plan is not to trade Cutler. He requested to be traded Sunday.

Cutler, 25, threw for a franchise-record 4,526 yards and was named to the Pro Bowl last season, but his relationship with new coach Josh McDaniels has been sideways since Cutler learned of a trade proposal that would have made former New England quarterback Matt Cassel the Broncos' quarterback. Cutler would have gone to Tampa Bay in the three-team deal.
Cutler's agent, Bus Cook, told NFL.com on Wednesday the root of his client's discontent was that Broncos owner Pat Bowlen didn't keep his word of retaining his offensive coaching staff intact after firing head coach Mike Shanahan. Instead, Cook said, Bowlen hired McDaniels, an offensive-minded coach who didn't want to keep Shanahan's top quarterback assistant, Jeremy Bates.

However, Cook must have forgotten Cutler signed off on the coaching changes during Super Bowl week, a few days after McDaniels set his staff.

"I talked to him after he got hired and it went really well," Cutler said of McDaniels on Jan. 30. "You know, when we got off the phone, I was excited, I really was. I had a good feeling about it."

Clearly, Cutler's problem is with the trade proposal and how McDaniels has since handled it. McDaniels admitted to Cutler he had interest in Cassel after coaching him the previous three seasons as New England's offensive coordinator. But McDaniels also said his interest never reached a point where he submitted the idea to Bowlen. Cassel was instead traded to Kansas City.

Since then, McDaniels and Cutler have talked twice, one in a conference call, and again Saturday in a meeting that also included Cook and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders.

Each conversation ended without Cutler not feeling reassured McDaniels trusts him to be his quarterback. After issuing his trade request, Cutler skipped McDaniels' first team meeting Monday and the first week of the team's offseason conditioning program.

A second NFL source said the Broncos remain optimistic about soothing the situation with their quarterback. Team officials do not want to give up on the tantalizing possibility of teaming Cutler's enormous, if not fully developed, talent with a coach who coordinated a New England offense to an NFL record 589 points in 2007.

The Broncos would not be surprised if teams more aggressively pursue Cutler during the NFL owners meetings that begin Sunday in Dana Point, Calif.

Which teams would be interested in Cutler? It might be easier to count the teams who already have franchise quarterbacks.

Teams who figure to have untouchable passers are New England (Tom Brady), Indianapolis (Peyton Manning), New Orleans (Drew Brees), the New York Giants (Eli Manning), San Diego (Philip Rivers), Pittsburgh (Ben Roethlisberger), Cincinnati (Carson Palmer), Green Bay (Aaron Rodgers), Atlanta (Matt Ryan) and Baltimore (Joe Flacco).

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11954932

Taco John
03-20-2009, 12:36 AM
Looks like he hasn't hurt his value too much afterall...

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 12:40 AM
We will get a good value for Jay if we trade him. It's a simple fact that he has shown his ass to the public, but just as was the case with Jeff George a decade ago, people will be willing to take a chance and pay a good price.

hambone13
03-20-2009, 12:45 AM
We will get a good value for Jay if we trade him. It's a simple fact that he has shown his ass to the public, but just as was the case with Jeff George a decade ago, people will be willing to take a chance and pay a good price.

What do you know about Jeff George and his personality? Maybe you could enlighten us with your insight as to he and Jay's parallels?

I know 3 people that went to school with Jeff George in Illinois. They took classes with him, went to parties with him and 1 was on the field with him during tryouts. I'm just warning you. You better have some scoop or shut up because he's one of the biggest POS's you've ever met and that was before anyone could blog.

Please step up.

Killericon
03-20-2009, 12:51 AM
What do you know about Jeff George and his personality? Maybe you could enlighten us with your insight as to he and Jay's parallels?

I know 3 people that went to school with Jeff George in Illinois. They took classes with him, went to parties with him and 1 was on the field with him during tryouts. I'm just warning you. You better have some scoop or shut up because he's one of the biggest POS's you've ever met and that was before anyone could blog.

Please step up.

I'm sure he was talking about Jay Cutler/Jeff George the football player/teammate, rather than Jay Cutler/Jeff George the man.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 12:51 AM
What do you know about Jeff George and his personality? Maybe you could enlighten us with your insight as to he and Jay's parallels?

I know 3 people that went to school with Jeff George in Illinois. They took classes with him, went to parties with him and 1 was on the field with him during tryouts. I'm just warning you. You better have some scoop or shut up because he's one of the biggest POS's you've ever met and that was before anyone could blog.

Please step up.

Interestingly, I know FOUR people who went to school with Jeff George, and FOUR people who to school with Cutler. On the douchebag ratio, Cutler scored a 4.7 versus George's 4.5. So, THERE! Take that mister hambone!

Archer81
03-20-2009, 12:53 AM
What do you know about Jeff George and his personality? Maybe you could enlighten us with your insight as to he and Jay's parallels?

I know 3 people that went to school with Jeff George in Illinois. They took classes with him, went to parties with him and 1 was on the field with him during tryouts. I'm just warning you. You better have some scoop or shut up because he's one of the biggest POS's you've ever met and that was before anyone could blog.

Please step up.



OMG...AN INTERNET FACE OFF...

You are seriously a loser.


:Broncos:

Ratboy
03-20-2009, 12:56 AM
Looks like he hasn't hurt his value too much afterall...

Anyone (Popps, Heav) who believed that is senile.

GreatBronco16
03-20-2009, 12:57 AM
Broncos dance party: Ten teams like Cutler
The team has listened but is telling suitors it wants to keep its angry QB.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post


If the Broncos decide to formally put Jay Cutler up for trade, they won't have trouble finding partners.

An NFL source said "more than 10" teams have called the Broncos this week inquiring about Cutler.

In most instances, those teams communicated nothing more than interest should Cutler become available. The Broncos have listened but have told all comers their plan is not to trade Cutler. He requested to be traded Sunday.

Cutler, 25, threw for a franchise-record 4,526 yards and was named to the Pro Bowl last season, but his relationship with new coach Josh McDaniels has been sideways since Cutler learned of a trade proposal that would have made former New England quarterback Matt Cassel the Broncos' quarterback. Cutler would have gone to Tampa Bay in the three-team deal.
Cutler's agent, Bus Cook, told NFL.com on Wednesday the root of his client's discontent was that Broncos owner Pat Bowlen didn't keep his word of retaining his offensive coaching staff intact after firing head coach Mike Shanahan. Instead, Cook said, Bowlen hired McDaniels, an offensive-minded coach who didn't want to keep Shanahan's top quarterback assistant, Jeremy Bates.

However, Cook must have forgotten Cutler signed off on the coaching changes during Super Bowl week, a few days after McDaniels set his staff.

"I talked to him after he got hired and it went really well," Cutler said of McDaniels on Jan. 30. "You know, when we got off the phone, I was excited, I really was. I had a good feeling about it."

Clearly, Cutler's problem is with the trade proposal and how McDaniels has since handled it. McDaniels admitted to Cutler he had interest in Cassel after coaching him the previous three seasons as New England's offensive coordinator. But McDaniels also said his interest never reached a point where he submitted the idea to Bowlen. Cassel was instead traded to Kansas City.

Since then, McDaniels and Cutler have talked twice, one in a conference call, and again Saturday in a meeting that also included Cook and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders.

Each conversation ended without Cutler not feeling reassured McDaniels trusts him to be his quarterback. After issuing his trade request, Cutler skipped McDaniels' first team meeting Monday and the first week of the team's offseason conditioning program.

A second NFL source said the Broncos remain optimistic about soothing the situation with their quarterback. Team officials do not want to give up on the tantalizing possibility of teaming Cutler's enormous, if not fully developed, talent with a coach who coordinated a New England offense to an NFL record 589 points in 2007.

The Broncos would not be surprised if teams more aggressively pursue Cutler during the NFL owners meetings that begin Sunday in Dana Point, Calif.

Which teams would be interested in Cutler? It might be easier to count the teams who already have franchise quarterbacks.

Teams who figure to have untouchable passers are New England (Tom Brady), Indianapolis (Peyton Manning), New Orleans (Drew Brees), the New York Giants (Eli Manning), San Diego (Philip Rivers), Pittsburgh (Ben Roethlisberger), Cincinnati (Carson Palmer), Green Bay (Aaron Rodgers), Atlanta (Matt Ryan) and Baltimore (Joe Flacco).

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11954932

Bolded the part I found interesting. So McD can't just do whatever he wants. He has to have Bowlen go ahead.

hambone13
03-20-2009, 12:59 AM
OMG...AN INTERNET FACE OFF...

You are seriously a loser.


:Broncos:

Ok, I admit that was a VERY weak post.

In my defense. Jeff George and Jay Cutler are about as far off in comparison as Rod Smith and TO. All I really wanted to convey was that JG was a piece of work that reeked of ****, like no other. It's not even fair to mention them together because that implies you might actually know something to compare other than they had egos and strong arms.

Bronco X
03-20-2009, 01:02 AM
Good. The Broncos shouldn't trade Cutler unless they get a Herschel Walker type deal (maybe not that extreme, but approaching it in relative terms). That being very unlikely, the best interests of the franchise are to make him play here. The Broncos have the power to say that Cutler cannot play anywhere else in the NFL until 2011. If Bowlen and McDaniels can get over their burnt egos they can just chill out and wait for Cutler to get over his. I don't think Cutler would hold out.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:08 AM
Looks like he hasn't hurt his value too much afterall...



Pacman Jones found work, Taco. Suitors in the NFL for a guy with a big arm isn't a surprise. Jeff George found employers for years.

We'll have no way of knowing what his true value could have been if he didn't develop a reputation as a pouty, problem-child.

Certainly, someone will take a risk on him. I hope you're not telling us that as breaking news.

But, had he and his idiot agent handled this properly, they could have packaged this thing much more attractively to teams.

Now, you've got people in the NY media saying that maybe he's not "worth the risk," etc.

Now, had he just shut up and done his job... or tried to work covertly with the staff to get a trade out of town, his value would have been increased. How much more? Who knows. But, anyone with firing neurons knows that a bitchy, pouty guy forcing his way out of town doesn't command the same trade value as a true pro like, say.. Champ Bailey.

But, I mean... leave it to you to insist that a guy making himself a problem and appear to be a head-case is a GOOD thing for trade value.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 01:14 AM
Ok, I admit that was a VERY weak post.

In my defense. Jeff George and Jay Cutler are about as far off in comparison as Rod Smith and TO. All I really wanted to convey was that JG was a piece of work that reeked of ****, like no other. It's not even fair to mention them together because that implies you might actually know something to compare other than they had egos and strong arms.

No one says they are precisely the same. But two supremely physically talented guys, who have bad attitudes, who think they are above the team, who haven't (yet anyway) come close to living up to their potential, who rumors suggests get drunk the night before games (to be fair, I've never heard this about George)...yeah, there are similarities.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:22 AM
Cutler and George are obviously very different guys.

But, that doesn't mean Cutler may not have a little George-personality in him.

Beyond that, George was simply an extreme example that if you can throw the ball, you could be a serial killer and find work.

But, still... your value IS affected by this stuff.

Taco John
03-20-2009, 01:23 AM
Pacman Jones found work, Taco. Suitors in the NFL for a guy with a big arm isn't a surprise. Jeff George found employers for years.

We'll have no way of knowing what his true value could have been if he didn't develop a reputation as a pouty, problem-child.

Certainly, someone will take a risk on him. I hope you're not telling us that as breaking news.

But, had he and his idiot agent handled this properly, they could have packaged this thing much more attractively to teams.

Now, you've got people in the NY media saying that maybe he's not "worth the risk," etc.

Now, had he just shut up and done his job... or tried to work covertly with the staff to get a trade out of town, his value would have been increased. How much more? Who knows. But, anyone with firing neurons knows that a b****y, pouty guy forcing his way out of town doesn't command the same trade value as a true pro like, say.. Champ Bailey.

But, I mean... leave it to you to insist that a guy making himself a problem and appear to be a head-case is a GOOD thing for trade value.


I was wondering what your reality-changing spin you were going to give to this considering how off the mark you were when you were trying to make the argument that nobody wanted to touch Jay with a ten foot pole. We've got ten teams lining up to put their dance card in, and you're still talking about what the NY Media might have to say about the guy, and how much we could have got for him if only he and his agent had only handled this properly.

We might have, what? 20 teams by your estimate? You figure his antics have scared off half the suitors?

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:23 AM
I also need to remind you that we very well may fleece someone in a deal, and no one will be happier than I.

But, again... a guy with a clean record (so to speak) brings more value than a guy with baggage. It's just simple math.

BroncoMan4ever
03-20-2009, 01:24 AM
Good. The Broncos shouldn't trade Cutler unless they get a Herschel Walker type deal (maybe not that extreme, but approaching it in relative terms). That being very unlikely, the best interests of the franchise are to make him play here. The Broncos have the power to say that Cutler cannot play anywhere else in the NFL until 2011. If Bowlen and McDaniels can get over their burnt egos they can just chill out and wait for Cutler to get over his. I don't think Cutler would hold out.

he has already said he will be here when it is mandatory for him to be here.

Taco John
03-20-2009, 01:25 AM
I also need to remind you that we very well may fleece someone in a deal, and no one will be happier than I.


No, you don't need to remind me of what I was telling you before. Jay's value is just fine.

And yes, you will be happy with what we get for him. How could you not be? You didn't even think the guy was worth a high first, and it's looking like that value is essentially in the bag.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:27 AM
when you were trying to make the argument that nobody wanted to touch Jay with a ten foot pole. ?

Of course, Taco... you know I didn't say that.

I said no such thing. ::)

But, we can do the dance, bro. Let's go back and post my quotes. You'll post them, say they mean something other than they do... I'll explain English to you, you'll call me a liar... I'll challenge you to put your $ where your mouth is, and you'll suddenly change the subject and puss-out like last time.

Go ahead. ::) Let's do the dance. I'll start...

What I said was, I "wasn't even sure if Cutler would bring a high first round pick" at the time I posted what I did.

I still have no idea. I hope he'd bring more. Maybe he'll bring two high first rounders. But, I have no SOLID way of gauging that. Do you?



We might have, what? 20 teams by your estimate? You figure his antics have scared off half the suitors?

I never said his antics have "scared off half the suitors."

I said a player with baggage brings less than a player without.

Dude, you really can't be this stupid. Honestly, and I know you're challenged... but you seriously can't be this damaged.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:28 AM
No, you don't need to remind me of what I was telling you before. Jay's value is just fine.


It may well be.

It would have been finer without him making himself appear to be a punk. (Or being a punk.)

Simple math. Leave it to you to argue it.

DBroncos4life
03-20-2009, 01:30 AM
So Popps what do you think Cutlers value is?

cutthemdown
03-20-2009, 01:35 AM
Mcdaniels should call Cutler and have some humility. Say listen I screwed up by trying to sweep it under the rug. I was hoping we could start over by you flying to Denver and leading the team. They want you here, I want you here, the fans want you here, the owner wants you here.

What do you say Jay, ready to play some football?

Then if he comes back and leads the team, shows he isn't a whiner but a winner, give him a fat new contract next offseason.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:37 AM
So Popps what do you think Cutlers value is?

I'm too biased. I want to get as much as possible.

I know what I WANT it to be. I want Detroit to give us their #20, as well as a #1 next year, and maybe even throw in a later round pick as well.


Well, I'll give you credit that you can follow a simple conversation that Taco can't...

His antics right now are not helping our bargaining position. YES, we'll have hoards off offers, but ANY player brings plenty of offers. I want GOOD offers. I still think we'll get good offers, my point was simply that had this been handled 100% "clean," teams wouldn't feel as much risk attached, imo.

That said, if I had to take a wild stab... I'd say a mid to low first rounder this year, and additional picks next year, probably a 2 and a 3, or a 2 and a 4.

Or, a mid #1 this year, a player of note... (D. Anderson) ... and maybe a mid-round pick next year.

That's a wild, wild guess.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-20-2009, 01:38 AM
I'm actually more interested in what a dick Jeff George was. Hambone has me curious.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:40 AM
Mcdaniels should call Cutler and have some humility. Say listen I screwed up by trying to sweep it under the rug. I was hoping we could start over by you flying to Denver and leading the team. They want you here, I want you here, the fans want you here, the owner wants you here.

What do you say Jay, ready to play some football?

Then if he comes back and leads the team, shows he isn't a whiner but a winner, give him a fat new contract next offseason.

Jay wants a guarantee, financially and otherwise.

Josh wants to see a commitment to the team, his contract and an ability to run the offense. Jay hasn't thrown a pass in his system.

Those are pretty big canyons to cross, and to me... it's down to the player under contract to man-up in this situation. I really don't think stroking is going to solve this.

I mean, if Cutler truly "doesn't trust him," what is sniveling going to accomplish? He's just going to think it's BS.

The best way to handle it is to come in and PROVE you're a franchise QB. Then, we have no choice but to extend his contract.

Or, you could take the easy (cowardly) way out... and demand a trade.

Here we are.

cutthemdown
03-20-2009, 01:41 AM
No, you don't need to remind me of what I was telling you before. Jay's value is just fine.

And yes, you will be happy with what we get for him. How could you not be? You didn't even think the guy was worth a high first, and it's looking like that value is essentially in the bag.

I'd say without a viable QB to offer the deal will have to be for a ton of picks. No 4000 yrd passer that is Cutlers age and arm strength have hit the market in last 10 yrs I can remember. Hell I can't remember any to tell you the truth.

Teams just don't trade good qbs very often.

With no players involved I think it would take a 1 and 2nd round pick in this draft. And then another first rounder the following yr. Maybe even more, like a few decent defensive players thrown in.

No way Broncos can fire sale Cutler and still have a decent team. They would have to add 4 stud defenders to even have a chance. They trade him for picks, and those picks don't pan out, Broncos are over with a good number of yrs.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 01:41 AM
I'm too biased. I want to get as much as possible.

I know what I WANT it to be. I want Detroit to give us their #20, as well as a #1 next year, and maybe even throw in a later round pick as well.


Well, I'll give you credit that you can follow a simple conversation that Taco can't...

His antics right now are not helping our bargaining position. YES, we'll have hoards off offers, but ANY player brings plenty of offers. I want GOOD offers. I still think we'll get good offers, my point was simply that had this been handled 100% "clean," teams wouldn't feel as much risk attached, imo.

That said, if I had to take a wild stab... I'd say a mid to low first rounder this year, and additional picks next year, probably a 2 and a 3, or a 2 and a 4.

Or, a mid #1 this year, a player of note... (D. Anderson) ... and maybe a mid-round pick next year.

That's a wild, wild guess.

Cutler is worth more than that.

cutthemdown
03-20-2009, 01:42 AM
IMO you have to get top end talent. That means players that are young and considered among the best in NFL. That means players like Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson, etc etc. We can't just get some picks that might not pan out. Stud QBS are valued way higher then that.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:44 AM
Cutler is worth more than that.

Look, I hope he's worth 5 #1 picks. I hope someone gives us their next 3 full drafts.

That's just a guess, and if we DO fleece a team... great!

The simple point was, we could probably have fleeced them even WORSE if we weren't in a weakened bargaining position, and if Cutler hadn't presented himself as a head-case through all of this.

I mean, that's just not a controversial statement. I can't for the life of me imagine why that's hard to grasp.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 01:44 AM
Cutler is worth more than that.

Actually, we agree here. I want #1, #20, #33, and #1 next year. I'm not happy with Cutler's attitude, but I'm not willing to give him away without a freakin' coup.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 01:45 AM
Jay wants a guarantee, financially and otherwise.

Josh wants Cassel

Those are pretty big canyons to cross, and to me... it's down to the player under contract to man-up in this situation. I really don't think stroking is going to solve this.

I mean, if Cutler truly "doesn't trust him," what is sniveling going to accomplish? He's just going to think it's BS.

The best way to handle it is to come in and PROVE you're a franchise QB. Then, we have no choice but to extend his contract.

Or, you could take the easy (cowardly) way out... and demand a trade.

Here we are.

Fixed.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 01:46 AM
Fixed.

It really is dishonest of you to make up things without any proof.

cutthemdown
03-20-2009, 01:46 AM
Jay wants a guarantee, financially and otherwise.

Josh wants to see a commitment to the team, his contract and an ability to run the offense. Jay hasn't thrown a pass in his system.

Those are pretty big canyons to cross, and to me... it's down to the player under contract to man-up in this situation. I really don't think stroking is going to solve this.

I mean, if Cutler truly "doesn't trust him," what is sniveling going to accomplish? He's just going to think it's BS.

The best way to handle it is to come in and PROVE you're a franchise QB. Then, we have no choice but to extend his contract.

Or, you could take the easy (cowardly) way out... and demand a trade.

Here we are.

I pretty much agree but if i was Mcdaniels I would still give it a shot. Unless he basically already said that and nothing will make Cutler happy other then being highest paid QB in NFL.

Cutler supposed to make about 2 mil this yr, then like 5 mil next yr? Then 3rd yr he has a 12 million dollar bonus. I'd say he doesn't have a lot of leverage. Broncos could easily tell him fine sit out, we will fine you every day, then not trade you next yr either unless we get the deal we want.

Like you said 3 first round picks. Picks are often busts, we have to have that many to make sure we can rebuild the team. You could take a qb every yr in first round and it could take 10 yrs to find one like Cutler.

Not saying you need a guy with a huge arm but just saying.

I'd like getting Curry though if detroit did trade us that number 1. He's sort of a sure thing I hear.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 01:46 AM
Look, I hope he's worth 5 #1 picks. I hope someone gives us their next 3 full drafts.

That's just a guess, and if we DO fleece a team... great!

The simple point was, we could probably have fleeced them even WORSE if we weren't in a weakened bargaining position, and if Cutler hadn't presented himself as a head-case through all of this.

I mean, that's just not a controversial statement. I can't for the life of me imagine why that's hard to grasp.

Point is...you undervalue Cutler.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 01:49 AM
It really is dishonest of you to make up things without any proof.

Please stop with the "dishonest" stuff... it's my honest opinion (and not just mine) that the Patriot does in fact want Cassel.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:49 AM
I pretty much agree but if i was Mcdaniels I would still give it a shot. Unless he basically already said that and nothing will make Cutler happy other then being highest paid QB in NFL. .

Sounds to me like the coach STILL wants to talk to him one on one. He repeats it every time he has a chance.

I don't know, I just don't believe Jay WANTS to resolve this.

But, I could be wrong. Hopefully I am.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:51 AM
Point is...you undervalue Cutler.

Well, that wasn't the "point" of the original conversation and how this started.

The original debate simply went back to Taco not understanding that his actions/reputation/our bargaining position have not been HELPED by this whole mess.

Good lord, I can't believe we have to discuss that.

Maybe I do undervalue him, but we'll see. Thus far, we must not have received any world-beating offers. He's still a Bronco.

I'll still guess that we'll see something like a mid #1 this year, and a high pick next year, with some junk thrown in.

Popps
03-20-2009, 01:52 AM
A wild card here could be that Detroit WOULD be willing to give up the #1 pick, simply because it's not a great year to have it.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 01:56 AM
Well, that wasn't the "point" of the original conversation and how this started.

The original debate simply went back to Taco not understanding that his actions/reputation/our bargaining position have not been HELPED by this whole mess.

Good lord, I can't believe we have to discuss that.

Maybe I do undervalue him, but we'll see. Thus far, we must not have received any world-beating offers. He's still a Bronco.

I'll still guess that we'll see something like a mid #1 this year, and a high pick next year, with some junk thrown in.

I believe the point of this particular discussion was Cutler's value on the trade block... andi if like a third of the teams in the league are vying for the opportunity to acquire him, he must not be quite the loser, malcontent, crybaby you've gone to great lengths to paint him as......

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 01:57 AM
Please stop with the "dishonest" stuff... it's my honest opinion (and not just mine) that the Patriot does in fact want Cassel.

But you have zero proof.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 01:59 AM
A wild card here could be that Detroit WOULD be willing to give up the #1 pick, simply because it's not a great year to have it.

And since it's not a great year to have it... we would want the #1 pick...WHY? ??? (so we can overpay for a bust?)

hambone13
03-20-2009, 02:00 AM
But you have zero proof.

I wanna be a murderer in your country. GO OJ!!

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 02:00 AM
I've got to agree with Blueflame here...Cutler has a higher value than what Popps' is giving credit for, and we need to hold out until that value is matched if a trade is to be made. I agree with Pat Kirwan: Two #1s and an established veteran player is the minimum value. We need to play hard ball here and work the price up as high as possible.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 02:01 AM
I wanna be a murderer in your country. GO OJ!!

There isn't any proof against McD that would hold up in any court. That dog won't hunt.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 02:05 AM
There isn't any proof against McD that would hold up in any court. That dog won't hunt.

The dog that won't hunt is "we just answered the phone"....

Atwater His Ass
03-20-2009, 02:05 AM
You are beyond help if you think trading a premier QB just coming into his prime for any amount of ****ing draft picks is a good deal. ****ing stupid.

If we trade Cutler, you go shopping on people's rosters for proven NFL players; you don't ****ing trade him for draft picks.

Popps
03-20-2009, 02:10 AM
I believe the point of this particular discussion was Cutler's value on the trade block... andi if like a third of the teams in the league are vying for the opportunity to acquire him, he must not be quite the loser, malcontent, crybaby you've gone to great lengths to paint him as......

Again, goofy... teams will line up to sign a mass murderer if he can play. That doesn't mean his value isn't better than if he WEREN'T a mass murderer.

If you can't wrap your head around that, I'm just not sure how to help you.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 02:10 AM
The dog that won't hunt is "we just answered the phone"....

You've made several claims that you've failed to produce proof for, so frankly I don't believe you until you can produce the goods. And I'm not interested in your interpretations or memories of anything...give me some legit proof--like quotes--or you don't know what you're talking about.

Popps
03-20-2009, 02:12 AM
And since it's not a great year to have it... we would want the #1 pick...WHY? ??? (so we can overpay for a bust?)

I don't want the #1 pick.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 02:12 AM
You are beyond help if you think trading a premier QB just coming into his prime for any amount of ****ing draft picks is a good deal. ****ing stupid.

If we trade Cutler, you go shopping on people's rosters for proven NFL players; you don't ****ing trade him for draft picks.

Since when is Jay Cutler a "premier" NFL QB? That's a fantasy. He's got the potential to be one for sure, but he ain't made it there yet.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 02:14 AM
Again, goofy... teams will line up to sign a mass murderer if he can play. That doesn't mean his value isn't better than if he WEREN'T a mass murderer.

If you can't wrap your head around that, I'm just not sure how to help you.

If you can't see that Cutler has more value than you would accept in a trade, then I can't help you... (I suspect you'd trade him for Matt Cassel and a day-old ham sammich)

Popps
03-20-2009, 02:15 AM
I've got to agree with Blueflame here...Cutler has a higher value than what Popps' is giving credit for, and we need to hold out until that value is matched if a trade is to be made. I agree with Pat Kirwan: Two #1s and an established veteran player is the minimum value. We need to play hard ball here and work the price up as high as possible.

Keep in mind, I'm just guessing.... and trying to guess realistically, not what I'd LIKE an offer to look like.

That said, I can almost guarantee you that two #1's and an established veteran player won't happen, unless that team is picking WAY down in the first round this year, and the established player is maybe an aging, mid-level linebacker or something.

But, I could be wrong. I hope to hell I am. Again, I hope he's worth 5 #1 picks.

hambone13
03-20-2009, 02:17 AM
There isn't any proof against McD that would hold up in any court. That dog won't hunt.

That dog didn't hunt. OJ went free for murder. I guess you're an OJ fan as well. Excellent position as it didn't hold up in court either. I guess he was innocent.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 02:18 AM
You've made several claims that you've failed to produce proof for, so frankly I don't believe you until you can produce the goods. And I'm not interested in your interpretations or memories of anything...give me some legit proof--like quotes--or you don't know what you're talking about.

No one's gonna be able to produce videotape of the Patriot calling his mentor... and even if they did, you'd question whether or not it was photoshopped.

hambone13
03-20-2009, 02:18 AM
Keep in mind, I'm just guessing.... and trying to guess realistically, not what I'd LIKE an offer to look like.

That said, I can almost guarantee you that two #1's and an established veteran player won't happen, unless that team is picking WAY down in the first round this year, and the established player is maybe an aging, mid-level linebacker or something.

But, I could be wrong. I hope to hell I am. Again, I hope he's worth 5 #1 picks.

How can you be so right about everything else and so potentially wrong about this Popps? I mean, your crystal ball is SOLID.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 02:19 AM
Keep in mind, I'm just guessing.... and trying to guess realistically, not what I'd LIKE an offer to look like.

That said, I can almost guarantee you that two #1's and an established veteran player won't happen, unless that team is picking WAY down in the first round this year, and the established player is maybe an aging, mid-level linebacker or something.

But, I could be wrong. I hope to hell I am. Again, I hope he's worth 5 #1 picks.

The rumors are that ten teams have interest in Cutler. I believe the rumor because Cutler, regardless of the various opinions, is a better option than draft options like Stafford and Sanchez, and better than anything that teams like San Fran, St. Louis, and Detroit currently have on their roster. Once they start bidding against one another, we will get our pound of flesh.

Popps
03-20-2009, 02:20 AM
If you can't see that Cutler has more value than you would accept in a trade, then I can't help you... (I suspect you'd trade him for Matt Cassel and a day-old ham sammich)

Blueflame,

I know these simple concepts are hard for you, but let me try to help...

You're mixing up two things...

1. My OPINION

An opinion is what someone believes, based on conjecture. It's not fact. It's not something someone purveys as fact. It's an OPINION.

My OPINION is that Cutler is worth somewhere around what I stated.




2. Factual information

Factual information is gathered by using proof. (Historical data, etc.)


See the difference?

A player who is a ****head brings less in trade-value.

That's not my opinion, that's factual information. To argue with that would be counterintuitive to a degree that would pretty much indicate you haven't followed sports for any length of time.


So, I hope that helps.

You're confusing what I think Jay might be worth... with a simple statement that players that are perceived as problem-cases and organizations in poor bargaining positions don't do as well as those trading "clean" players in non-acrimonious situations.

You think you can keep these two very different issues separate in the future? Hopefully my guide will help you do so.

Popps
03-20-2009, 02:21 AM
The rumors are that ten teams have interest in Cutler. I believe the rumor because Cutler, regardless of the various opinions, is a better option than draft options like Stafford and Sanchez, and better than anything that teams like San Fran, St. Louis, and Detroit currently have on their roster. Once they start bidding against one another, we will get our pound of flesh.

Hope you're right, man... and I hope it's more than 10 teams.

Again, I can't understand why Minnesota isn't throwing the kitchen sink at us.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 02:22 AM
That dog didn't hunt. OJ went free for murder. I guess you're an OJ fan as well. Excellent position as it didn't hold up in court either. I guess he was innocent.

Great, use the worst possible scenario to prove your point. The vast majority of the time, juries and evidence get it right.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 02:24 AM
Hope you're right, man... and I hope it's more than 10 teams.

Again, I can't understand why Minnesota isn't throwing the kitchen sink at us.

Well, it's still early. The teams position so far is we aren't moving Jay. So, don't rule any team out just because a rumor hasn't surfaced yet.

hambone13
03-20-2009, 02:25 AM
Blueflame,

I know these simple concepts are hard for you, but let me try to help...

You're mixing up two things...

1. My OPINION

An opinion is what someone believes, based on conjecture. It's not fact. It's not something someone purveys as fact. It's an OPINION.

My OPINION is that Cutler is worth somewhere around what I stated.




2. Factual information

Factual information is gathered by using proof. (Historical data, etc.)


See the difference?

A player who is a ****head brings less in trade-value.

That's not my opinion, that's factual information. To argue with that would be counterintuitive to a degree that would pretty much indicate you haven't followed sports for any length of time.


So, I hope that helps.

You're confusing what I think Jay might be worth... with a simple statement that players that are perceived as problem-cases and organizations in poor bargaining positions don't do as well as those trading "clean" players in non-acrimonious situations.

You think you can keep these two very different issues separate in the future? Hopefully my guide will help you do so.

Help me understand with "facts" when a "clean" QB, the year after the Pro Bowl as 3rd year QB was traded after breaking all their franchises records. Alternatively, maybe you could provide me a "dirty" player, in a similar situation, that was? Then maybe we'll have some factual data to work off of.

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 02:29 AM
Blueflame,

I know these simple concepts are hard for you, but let me try to help...

You're mixing up two things...

1. My OPINION

An opinion is what someone believes, based on conjecture. It's not fact. It's not something someone purveys as fact. It's an OPINION.

My OPINION is that Cutler is worth somewhere around what I stated.




2. Factual information

Factual information is gathered by using proof. (Historical data, etc.)


See the difference?

A player who is a ****head brings less in trade-value.

That's not my opinion, that's factual information. To argue with that would be counterintuitive to a degree that would pretty much indicate you haven't followed sports for any length of time.


So, I hope that helps.

You're confusing what I think Jay might be worth... with a simple statement that players that are perceived as problem-cases and organizations in poor bargaining positions don't do as well as those trading "clean" players in non-acrimonious situations.

You think you can keep these two very different issues separate in the future? Hopefully my guide will help you do so.

A player who has the inborn talent... a strong arm, mobility, and intellect (all of which Jay Cutler has) is always going to be a valuable commodity. Would a third of the teams in the NFL be inquiring about him if he really were the "problem, headcase" you're painting him to be?

Popps
03-20-2009, 02:31 AM
A player who has the inborn talent... a strong arm, mobility, and intellect (all of which Jay Cutler has) is always going to be a valuable commodity. Would a third of the teams in the NFL be inquiring about him if he really were the "problem, headcase" you're painting him to be?

Mike Vick will walk right back into the NFL and work.

He'll leave prison, and probably play with a team THAT year.

That should answer your question.

(No, goofballs... before you go nuts, Cutler isn't Vick. But the point remains.)

Blueflame
03-20-2009, 02:33 AM
Mike Vick will walk right back into the NFL and work.

He'll leave prison, and probably play with a team THAT year.

That should answer your question.

(No, goofballs... before you go nuts, Cutler isn't Vick. But the point remains.)

Really? Did you run that past the league commish?

DBroncos4life
03-20-2009, 02:35 AM
Mike Vick will walk right back into the NFL and work.

He'll leave prison, and probably play with a team THAT year.

That should answer your question.

(No, goofballs... before you go nuts, Cutler isn't Vick. But the point remains.)

Do you think even 2 teams will line up to offer a pick for Vicks rights? Yeah odds are Vick will land on a NFL team but I don't think a third of the NFL would offer anything for him. Im sure Atlanta would part for Vicks rights for a 7th round pick in the NFL draft. Even if Vick was cut I doubt you would find many teams offering him a contract now if Jay was cut how many teams do you think would jump on that?

lex
03-20-2009, 02:39 AM
This guy says 2 firsts and a player (such as Quinn).

http://www.nfl.com/news/author?id=09000d5d80021483

Pat Kirwan

Pat Kirwan began his NFL career in 1972 after coaching high school and college football. He spent eight years (1989-'97) with the New York Jets, beginning as a defensive assistant coach and advancing to director of player administration, where he negotiated contracts and managed the team's salary cap. Before his time with the Jets, Kirwan was an area scout for the Phoenix Cardinals (1989) and Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1983-'86).

In addition to writing for NFL.com, Kirwan is a contributor to CBS Sports' NFL Today and is co-host on Sirius NFL Radio.

----------


Now, feel free to post your bio, Popps.

Atwater His Ass
03-20-2009, 02:56 AM
Since when is Jay Cutler a "premier" NFL QB? That's a fantasy. He's got the potential to be one for sure, but he ain't made it there yet.

Do you like even watch the games? Or is your Cutler hatred so rampart you can't appreciate what he did for this team last year with zero defense?

Hey, but go ahead and trade the guy for ****ing draft picks. Great plan douche bag.

fontaine
03-20-2009, 04:23 AM
McDaniels made an amateur mistake in the whole trade fiasco but he's not retarded.

There is simply NO WAY Cutler is going to be traded for picks.

What's his replacement? Chris Simms? Don't make me laugh. People here complain that Cutler hasn't played in his system, hasn't proven to be a franchise QB etc etc - And Chris Simms has?

And any trade would mean we would have to bring in a first round rookie QB, if not this year then next year so McDaniels would have to go with a completely unkown rookie QB and drop a huge signing bonus on him.

Both ideas are mind numbingly stupid, and I'm glad McDaniels is finally following a plan instead of flip flopping and has told other teams that Jay is not being traded. Hopefully he can actually stick to that for more than just a few days this time.

ELEVATION
03-20-2009, 04:40 AM
McDaniels made an amateur mistake in the whole trade fiasco but he's not retarded.

There is simply NO WAY Cutler is going to be traded for picks.

What's his replacement? Chris Simms? Don't make me laugh. People here complain that Cutler hasn't played in his system, hasn't proven to be a franchise QB etc etc - And Chris Simms has?

And any trade would mean we would have to bring in a first round rookie QB, if not this year then next year so McDaniels would have to go with a completely unkown rookie QB and drop a huge signing bonus on him.

Both ideas are mind numbingly stupid, and I'm glad McDaniels is finally following a plan instead of flip flopping and has told other teams that Jay is not being traded. Hopefully he can actually stick to that for more than just a few days this time.




i have a feeling MCD feels about Qb's the way shanny did about Rb's plug and play baby, plug and play.....

Drek
03-20-2009, 05:03 AM
No, you don't need to remind me of what I was telling you before. Jay's value is just fine.

And yes, you will be happy with what we get for him. How could you not be? You didn't even think the guy was worth a high first, and it's looking like that value is essentially in the bag.

You don't find this a little disingenous Taco?

You started a thread on Jay's value, and in it you admitted yourself that the current situation was hurting his potential trade value.

Doesn't mean there won't be a lot of interest, but how many of those 10+ teams are kicking the tires hoping to low ball Denver for a "malcontent"?

We have no idea what value other teams are placing on Cutler. Me personally I wouldn't trade him for anything less than what Pat Kirwan suggests is fair value, two firsts and a solid vet. In lieu of the solid vet I'd take a late 2nd/early 3rd. And if the team that is interested doesn't pick in the top 15 this year then they should throw in another 2nd/3rd as well.

So for a team like Cleveland they can send us the 5th overall, their '10 1st, and Quinn.

For Detroit it could be #1, #20, and their 3rd rounder.

For someone like Tampa or the Jets I'd want their 1st this year, and their 2nd or 3rd this year with a matching 1st and 2nd/3rd next year.

But then I'm of the opinion that the Broncos just make Cutler show up, and when he and McDaniels start working together in a Cook/Xanders free environment they'll find trust and mutual understanding much faster than most here think.

Broncojef
03-20-2009, 05:06 AM
i have a feeling MCD feels about Qb's the way shanny did about Rb's plug and play baby, plug and play.....

I think theres an even better chance he kicked the crap out of us on national television in New England last year, spent some time with Jay in private, watched tape of the guy and evaluated Cutler as just not being what he needs to impliment his offense. A coach in his position has to spend alot of time talking to the QB, placing trust in the QBs ability to execute and work with the QB on a personal level. I think at the end of the day McDaniels would just rather work with someone else with more limited talent and better leadership/stability attributes.

lex
03-20-2009, 05:08 AM
McDaniels made an amateur mistake in the whole trade fiasco but he's not retarded.

There is simply NO WAY Cutler is going to be traded for picks.

What's his replacement? Chris Simms? Don't make me laugh. People here complain that Cutler hasn't played in his system, hasn't proven to be a franchise QB etc etc - And Chris Simms has?

And any trade would mean we would have to bring in a first round rookie QB, if not this year then next year so McDaniels would have to go with a completely unkown rookie QB and drop a huge signing bonus on him.

Both ideas are mind numbingly stupid, and I'm glad McDaniels is finally following a plan instead of flip flopping and has told other teams that Jay is not being traded. Hopefully he can actually stick to that for more than just a few days this time.

No it doesnt. If McJerkface is so ego driven to run off a first round talent like Cutler, then he should be targeting lower round guys that he can progam to be his robot.

TheReverend
03-20-2009, 05:24 AM
Actually, we agree here. I want #1, #20, #33, and #1 next year. I'm not happy with Cutler's attitude, but I'm not willing to give him away without a freakin' coup.

Who do you take at #1?

fontaine
03-20-2009, 05:29 AM
No it doesnt. If McJerkface is so ego driven to run off a first round talent like Cutler, then he should be targeting lower round guys that he can progam to be his robot.

He's not driving off Cutler just like Cutler never said he doesn't want to be in Denver.

ELEVATION
03-20-2009, 05:30 AM
Who do you take at #1?

we cant afford the number 1 pick, but if we could BJ raji......

lex
03-20-2009, 05:33 AM
He's not driving off Cutler just like Cutler never said he doesn't want to be in Denver.


I dont doubt you believe that.

Broncoman13
03-20-2009, 05:57 AM
I'm actually more interested in the dick Jeff George has. Hambone has me curious.

FREAK!

Hercules Rockefeller
03-20-2009, 05:58 AM
It really is dishonest of you to make up things without any proof.

Don't waste your breath, she's already shown over the past few weeks that she doesn't real articles in their entirety and only sees what she wants to see in them.

TonyR
03-20-2009, 06:06 AM
McDaniels admitted to Cutler he had interest in Cassel after coaching him the previous three seasons as New England's offensive coordinator. But McDaniels also said his interest never reached a point where he submitted the idea to Bowlen.

I didn't bother to read this whole thread, but from what I did read it appears most of you missed the most important part of the article which I've bolded for you above. He had interest but never did anything about it. What are we arguing about? Some of you are bigger drama queens than Jay Cutler.

TonyR
03-20-2009, 06:10 AM
Looks like he hasn't hurt his value too much afterall...

Effing hilarious. You're this lost that you think this is what you should be focused on? In case you didn't see my previous post let me spell it out for you again:

McDaniels admitted to Cutler he had interest in Cassel after coaching him the previous three seasons as New England's offensive coordinator. But McDaniels also said his interest never reached a point where he submitted the idea to Bowlen.

Stop being so effing obtuse! Most of you people have to be smarter than this! Right? You can't be this stupid. Really, you can't.

You can lead a horse to water...

socalorado
03-20-2009, 06:12 AM
I didn't bother to read this whole thread, but from what I did read it appears most of you missed the most important part of the article which I've bolded for you above. He had interest but never did anything about it. What are we arguing about? Some of you are bigger drama queens than Jay Cutler.

Gotta love the hamster wheeling, man.
Where would this place be without it!?!?!? :wiggle:

MplsBronco
03-20-2009, 06:50 AM
The dog that won't hunt is "we just answered the phone"....

You seriously need to get over it.

rugbythug
03-20-2009, 06:56 AM
If and when Cutler gets traded IMO it has to be the Biggest Trade in Football History for me to be satisfied. It has to be Bigger than Herschal Walker. Anything less and I don't think we are coming out ahead.
Herschel Walker trade



Minnesota Vikings Received:


RB Herschel Walker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker)
Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1990 (54) (Mike Jones)
San Diego's 5th round pick - 1990 (116) (Reggie Thornton)
Dallas's 10th round pick - 1990 (249) (Pat Newman)
Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1991 (68) (Jake Reed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Reed))
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herschel_Walker_trade&action=edit&section=4)] Dallas Cowboys Received:


LB Jesse Solomon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Solomon)
LB David Howard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Howard)
CB Issiac Holt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issiac_Holt)
RB Darrin Nelson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrin_Nelson) (traded to San Diego (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Chargers) after he refused to report to Dallas)
DE Alex Stewart
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) They traded this pick along with pick (81) for pick (17) from Pittsburgh to draft (Emmitt Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmitt_Smith))
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Wright_%28football_player%29))
Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Saints), who drafted James Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Williams_%28linebacker%29))
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (11) (Pat Harlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Harlow))
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38) (Darryll Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darryll_Lewis))
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (37) (Darren Woodson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Woodson))
Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71) (traded to New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots), who drafted Kevin Turner)
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Eagles), and then to the Houston Oilers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Titans), who drafted Brad Hopkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Hopkins))

DenverBrit
03-20-2009, 07:06 AM
Effing hilarious. You're this lost that you think this is what you should be focused on? In case you didn't see my previous post let me spell it out for you again:

McDaniels admitted to Cutler he had interest in Cassel after coaching him the previous three seasons as New England's offensive coordinator. But McDaniels also said his interest never reached a point where he submitted the idea to Bowlen.

Stop being so effing obtuse! Most of you people have to be smarter than this! Right? You can't be this stupid. Really, you can't.

You can lead a horse to water...

Interestingly, only one other poster highlighted that gem, yet it is the most interesting comment in the article.

TonyR
03-20-2009, 07:12 AM
Interestingly, only one other poster highlighted that gem, yet it is the most interesting comment in the article.

Yes, and this jives with what Belichik said yesterday. The evidence clearly suggests that trade talks never got serious. And yet all the drama queens want to bash away at McD as if he did something wrong when what's really happening is the media, Jay Cutler, and Bus Cook are blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. I'm just flabbergasted that people can't see what's going on here. Dumbfounded.

Nice avy, by the way. May I inquire as to who that flexible young lady is?

Man-Goblin
03-20-2009, 07:16 AM
Teams who figure to have untouchable passers are New England (Tom Brady), Indianapolis (Peyton Manning), New Orleans (Drew Brees), the New York Giants (Eli Manning), San Diego (Philip Rivers), Pittsburgh (Ben Roethlisberger), Cincinnati (Carson Palmer), Green Bay (Aaron Rodgers), Atlanta (Matt Ryan) and Baltimore (Joe Flacco).


I think that Palmer could possibly be had in this thing if they Broncos can get creative.

RaiderH8r
03-20-2009, 07:20 AM
I'm actually more interested in what a dick Jeff George was. Hambone has me curious.

Figures...somebody says, "Dick" and boob comes running to get some. It was a turn of phrase man, not an offer. Go back to your ghey porn.

DenverBrit
03-20-2009, 07:21 AM
Yes, and this jives with what Belichik said yesterday. The evidence clearly suggests that trade talks never got serious. And yet all the drama queens want to bash away at McD as if he did something wrong when what's really happening is the media, Jay Cutler, and Bus Cook are blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. I'm just flabbergasted that people can't see what's going on here. Dumbfounded.

Nice avy, by the way. May I inquire as to who that flexible young lady is?

It's much easier to bash everyone from Bowlen to the waterboy than to watch the facts emerge and use common sense.
Nowadays we need waders to get through the threads.

I don't know who the lady is. This was my avy when I first 'signed up' but the mods wouldn't allow it.
Not sure why they didn't like it, but my guess was that they didn't like Coors Lite.......me neither, but I like how it's presented. ;D

Man-Goblin
03-20-2009, 07:27 AM
Minnesota Vikings Received:


RB Herschel Walker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker)
Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1990 (54) (Mike Jones)
San Diego's 5th round pick - 1990 (116) (Reggie Thornton)
Dallas's 10th round pick - 1990 (249) (Pat Newman)
Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1991 (68) (Jake Reed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Reed))[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herschel_Walker_trade&action=edit&section=4)] Dallas Cowboys Received:


LB Jesse Solomon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Solomon)
LB David Howard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Howard)
CB Issiac Holt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issiac_Holt)
RB Darrin Nelson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrin_Nelson) (traded to San Diego (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Chargers) after he refused to report to Dallas)
DE Alex Stewart
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) They traded this pick along with pick (81) for pick (17) from Pittsburgh to draft (Emmitt Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmitt_Smith))
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Wright_%28football_player%29))
Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Saints), who drafted James Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Williams_%28linebacker%29))
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (11) (Pat Harlow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Harlow))
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38) (Darryll Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darryll_Lewis))
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (37) (Darren Woodson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Woodson))
Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71) (traded to New England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots), who drafted Kevin Turner)
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Eagles), and then to the Houston Oilers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Titans), who drafted Brad Hopkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Hopkins))Oh to be a fly on the wall during this negotiation.

Minnesota: "Gee, this looks like a pretty good deal, but we're just not getting enough back. Can you throw in this year's 10th rounder?"

Jimmy Johnson: "Sure!"

HILife
03-20-2009, 07:35 AM
Broncos dance party: Ten teams like Cutler
The team has listened but is telling suitors it wants to keep its angry QB.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post


If the Broncos decide to formally put Jay Cutler up for trade, they won't have trouble finding partners.

An NFL source said "more than 10" teams have called the Broncos this week inquiring about Cutler.

In most instances, those teams communicated nothing more than interest should Cutler become available. The Broncos have listened but have told all comers their plan is not to trade Cutler. He requested to be traded Sunday.

Cutler, 25, threw for a franchise-record 4,526 yards and was named to the Pro Bowl last season, but his relationship with new coach Josh McDaniels has been sideways since Cutler learned of a trade proposal that would have made former New England quarterback Matt Cassel the Broncos' quarterback. Cutler would have gone to Tampa Bay in the three-team deal.
Cutler's agent, Bus Cook, told NFL.com on Wednesday the root of his client's discontent was that Broncos owner Pat Bowlen didn't keep his word of retaining his offensive coaching staff intact after firing head coach Mike Shanahan. Instead, Cook said, Bowlen hired McDaniels, an offensive-minded coach who didn't want to keep Shanahan's top quarterback assistant, Jeremy Bates.

However, Cook must have forgotten Cutler signed off on the coaching changes during Super Bowl week, a few days after McDaniels set his staff.

"I talked to him after he got hired and it went really well," Cutler said of McDaniels on Jan. 30. "You know, when we got off the phone, I was excited, I really was. I had a good feeling about it."

Clearly, Cutler's problem is with the trade proposal and how McDaniels has since handled it. McDaniels admitted to Cutler he had interest in Cassel after coaching him the previous three seasons as New England's offensive coordinator. But McDaniels also said his interest never reached a point where he submitted the idea to Bowlen. Cassel was instead traded to Kansas City.

Since then, McDaniels and Cutler have talked twice, one in a conference call, and again Saturday in a meeting that also included Cook and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders.

Each conversation ended without Cutler not feeling reassured McDaniels trusts him to be his quarterback. After issuing his trade request, Cutler skipped McDaniels' first team meeting Monday and the first week of the team's offseason conditioning program.

A second NFL source said the Broncos remain optimistic about soothing the situation with their quarterback. Team officials do not want to give up on the tantalizing possibility of teaming Cutler's enormous, if not fully developed, talent with a coach who coordinated a New England offense to an NFL record 589 points in 2007.

The Broncos would not be surprised if teams more aggressively pursue Cutler during the NFL owners meetings that begin Sunday in Dana Point, Calif.

Which teams would be interested in Cutler? It might be easier to count the teams who already have franchise quarterbacks.

Teams who figure to have untouchable passers are New England (Tom Brady), Indianapolis (Peyton Manning), New Orleans (Drew Brees), the New York Giants (Eli Manning), San Diego (Philip Rivers), Pittsburgh (Ben Roethlisberger), Cincinnati (Carson Palmer), Green Bay (Aaron Rodgers), Atlanta (Matt Ryan) and Baltimore (Joe Flacco).

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11954932

If it comes down to trading Cutler, then fine, get as many teams together and let them duke it out. Through in a free slice of cake to sweeten the deal.

Rohirrim
03-20-2009, 07:43 AM
I think the controversy is over. Jay has no leverage to force a trade. The Broncos say they're not going to trade him. So, barring a really ridiculous deal, it ain't going to happen. Take a deep breath... relax....

Circle Orange
03-20-2009, 07:47 AM
assuming this 'unnamed source' isn't a bunch of hoo, all I can say is...

BUS COOK, JOB WELL DONE!

You have ten teams interested in an unproven qb? I need representation like that myself!

and pretty much any first rounder has supposed upside and potential. What's so friggin different here?!

THE SHANAHAN STAMP.

If shanny hadn't put out in public Jay was gonna be great, I'll bet the perception would be more...even, shall we say?

And so the ready made explanations with the defense (which admittedly sucked) was bad, and how this, that, and the other is an excuse.

But in other cities qbs are reviled no matter what they do. Or they're deemed a bust if they don't win no matter what. If Jay had a good defense and the team had a winning record, would he get all the credit for that?

Yet there's no credit in the losing record because of bad d.

Still a team sport. Park the hype and get to work. We'll see. :afro:

It's all about perception as much as reality.

TonyR
03-20-2009, 07:52 AM
I think the controversy is over. Jay has no leverage to force a trade. The Broncos say they're not going to trade him. So, barring a really ridiculous deal, it ain't going to happen.

I hope you're right. There never should have been any "controversy" to begin with but mix together the media, Bus Cook, Jay Cutler, and a bunch of drama queens and the result is a big clusterfudge.

It is apparent that trade talks never got serious, Jay never got traded and is still a Bronco, and they have no intention of trading him now unless the unlikely can't-pass-up deal comes along. The only remaining issue is Jay Cutler's "hurt feelings" and "lack of trust", both of which he needs to get over and move forward.

backup qb
03-20-2009, 07:53 AM
Of course ten teams have shown interest. He's a stud. As Bronco fans we should know talents like Jay don't come around very often. I am still optimistic that cooler heads will prevail and we will see 30 tds out of #6 this season.

Cito Pelon
03-20-2009, 08:12 AM
Key phrase in the article - ". . . Cutler's enormous, if not fully developed, talent . . ."

That's the problem right there in my mind - will Jay ever reach his potential? There's some signs that he doesn't have the intangibles to be one of the greats. It was pretty disgusting to see how he handled himself last year when things didn't go his way, and to see him gag down the stretch. Now this, where "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" comes to mind.

If he gets traded, I'm ok with that, because I'm real skeptical right now that he'll have a great career. Frankly, I'd prefer to see him get traded, because I think he won't behave like a professional again this year and will in fact be subversive to team goals.

Circle Orange
03-20-2009, 08:23 AM
And is this actual potential versus what people THINK should be potential because of a strong arm. Gotta be careful with these assumptions. I like Jay, but too many guys have come and gone with cannons that don't pan out. That simply isn't enough (other than highlight film gushing).

And think, most of the top arms are not on the list of greatest of all time. Why is that? something to think about. Jumble a mix of names often thrown in with the best...the majority do NOT have cannons. Not sure what this means, but it's interesting to note.

no-pseudo-fan
03-20-2009, 08:24 AM
I tell Detroit, that we want #20, #33, and #65 this year and next years 1st + Brady Quinn(It is up to them on how to get him).

I don't want #1, too much money.

Denver should not give Cutler away. Wherever he goes, he is instantly the face of the Franchise and the team is going to sell more season tickets and more luxury boxes.

Denver needs to be able to sell this to our fans, and keep everyone excited going into this season.

wandlc
03-20-2009, 08:29 AM
I also need to remind you that we very well may fleece someone in a deal, and no one will be happier than I.

But, again... a guy with a clean record (so to speak) brings more value than a guy with baggage. It's just simple math.

Yeah, but is this discussion even happening if Cutler had a clean record as you put it?

outdoor_miner
03-20-2009, 08:36 AM
Effing hilarious. You're this lost that you think this is what you should be focused on? In case you didn't see my previous post let me spell it out for you again:

McDaniels admitted to Cutler he had interest in Cassel after coaching him the previous three seasons as New England's offensive coordinator. But McDaniels also said his interest never reached a point where he submitted the idea to Bowlen.

Stop being so effing obtuse! Most of you people have to be smarter than this! Right? You can't be this stupid. Really, you can't.

You can lead a horse to water...

This isn't the first time I wished we had a thread where we could put up all the rumors that have gone around about this stupid situation and a link to the source of the original rumor along with any corroborating stories. I think that would really help everyone see who had reported what and make some connections. As of now, everyone just reads an article and believes what they want to based on what they kinda remember from that one article a month ago (or, in the case of a few people here, it is based upon their total irrational hatred of one side or the other). An example would be:

Rumor: Cutler was going to be traded essentially "straight up" for Cassell or in a scenario where Denver actually loses draft value in the deal.
Original Source:
http://www.donotbelievethisrumor.com
Corroborating Sources:
http://www.notinamillionfrigginyears.com
http://www.iamdumbifithinkthisistrue.com

Circle Orange
03-20-2009, 08:40 AM
I didn't bother to read this whole thread, but from what I did read it appears most of you missed the most important part of the article which I've bolded for you above. He had interest but never did anything about it. What are we arguing about? Some of you are bigger drama queens than Jay Cutler.

Lol, the offseason is hell, isn't it?

16slayer24
03-20-2009, 08:47 AM
i heard every CFL team wants cutler is that true???

Taco John
03-20-2009, 08:58 AM
Effing hilarious. You're this lost that you think this is what you should be focused on?


Apparently, you've got some idea that Jay is just going to read that article and go, "oh, well, I guess I want to go back to work with Josh afterall."

What you're missing is the message that Josh sent to Cutler on the March 14 meeting, and the fact that the story on the Broncos side has changed so much throughout this ordeal that it's impossible to know what information is true or false.

So yeah, the last I saw we have a quarterback who is asking to be traded, and thus it's appropriate to focus on his trade value. I don't think Cutler has any intentions of coming back to Denver to work with Josh the Coach, no less Josh the QB Coordinator. And if you recall my position on this since it first blew up, I don't think having these two personalities on the same team is going to be a benefit. I think the dynamic is wrong and that it's appropriate for Josh to ship Cutler out at this point of the game to avoid future outbursts. I wish it didn't have to be like this, but we are where we are, and there's no sense in pretending that none of this happened.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 08:59 AM
Who do you take at #1?

I don't like either of the top two QBs, at least not at #1, so I go with Curry. He's the closest there is to a sure-thing in this draft, and for obvious reasons we could afford to mess up that pick. If Stafford or Sanchez is available at #12, give them consideration there.

TheReverend
03-20-2009, 09:15 AM
I don't like either of the top two QBs, at least not at #1, so I go with Curry. He's the closest there is to a sure-thing in this draft, and for obvious reasons we could afford to mess up that pick. If Stafford or Sanchez is available at #12, give them consideration there.

60 + million for a linebacker. Another good sum at 12. A good chunk at 20. 33 becomes moderate.

And next years number one should project to be another big hit.

...and we'd be working with Stafford or Sanchez........

SureShot
03-20-2009, 09:19 AM
The question is what can we get for Josh? The chefs gave the Jets a 3rd for Herm maybe they would give a 3rd for Josh as well.

BroncoInferno
03-20-2009, 09:20 AM
60 + million for a linebacker. Another good sum at 12. A good chunk at 20. 33 becomes moderate.

And next years number one should project to be another big hit.

...and we'd be working with Stafford or Sanchez........

People always get their head in a tizzy over salary cap ramifications. I let the front office do their thing as far as that goes. Xanders is apparently an expert at cap management, so I imagine he could make it work. Plus, some of the extra picks could be used as trade bait (trade downs, swap them for a veteran, etc).

Popps
03-20-2009, 09:21 AM
A player who has the inborn talent... a strong arm, mobility, and intellect (all of which Jay Cutler has) is always going to be a valuable commodity.

Gosh, really? So, that's probably why I said the exact same thing, using the Jeff George reference, huh?

A Would a third of the teams in the NFL be inquiring about him

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

YES.

Yes.


the "problem, headcase" you're painting him to be?

:spit:

Yea, you're right. It's just ME that's "painting" him this way. His behavior is actually just fine. NO ONE else is noticing that he's being an immature toddler about this whole thing...

"Cutler needs to grow up..."
http://www.examiner.com/x-2170-Colorado-Sports-Examiner~y2009m3d1-Jay-Culter-needs-to-grow-up

"Judging by Cutler's behavior, the signs aren't positive"
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2009/03/the_jay_cutler-jeff_george_com.php

"Someone should inform Jay Cutler that the NFL is a business and that the Broncos are not a day care."
http://www.scorespro.com/news/jay-cutler-nfl-qb-or-oversized-baby.htm

"He is a grown man who thinks that the famous scientist Nicolaus Copernicus was wrong. He's pretty sure the Earth doesn't revolve around the sun, but that it revolves around him."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/141322-jay-cutler-has-become-the-most-immature-person-in-the-national-football-league

"One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure."
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler's-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

"Cutler has often come off as arrogant and immature. Whether it is his antics on the field with his trash talking or the handling of team issues of the field, Jay has a propensity to rub people the wrong way."
http://www.examiner.com/x-779-New-York-Jets-Examiner~y2009m3d20-Jets-should-not-mortgage-future-for-Cutler

"Over the last 7 years, I still watched the Broncos with admiration and shouted my support (except when they played Houston), but I haven’t been a big fan of the young and often immature, Cutler."
http://www.studyofsports.com/?p=1851

"Jets don't need this head-case"
http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spglaub176072392mar17,0,157338.column

Do not allow this Jay Cutler trade talk to continue. The Denver quarterback wants out of town because he (A) doesn't like the Broncos' new coach and (B) had his feelings hurt when the team tried to acquire New England quarterback Matt Cassel. Sounds like a head case to me. What would Cutler do the first time Singletary stared at him sternly? Melt into a puddle of whine?
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_11947065

"And of course the Jets are different. Ryan has replaced Eric Mangini as head coach and seems to be initiating a team-first attitude, not me-first. And Cutler might not be best suited for that role, being dubbed a cry baby by some for the way he has acted throughout this situation."
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/backpage/archives/2009/03/similarities-in.html


Yea, no one else is talking about it. He's got a squeaky-clean rep. Good call as usual, Blueflame.

:thumbsup:

Let me guess, is this where you tell me again what I already know... that any decent player has trade value? That's not the topic here, but I'm pretty sure you'll tell me that again.

TheReverend
03-20-2009, 09:22 AM
People always get their head in a tizzy over salary cap ramifications. I let the front office do their thing as far as that goes. Xanders is apparently an expert at cap management, so I imagine he could make it work. Plus, some of the extra picks could be used as trade bait (trade downs, swap them for a veteran, etc).

How's he going to make it work?

Find a player that's gone #1 overall that didn't immediately become the highest paid player at his position in recent history.

We pick Curry, he becomes the highest paid LB in the NFL. Period. That's why Detroit wants nothing to do with it, and no one else does either.

montrose
03-20-2009, 09:22 AM
60 + million for a linebacker. Another good sum at 12. A good chunk at 20. 33 becomes moderate.

And next years number one should project to be another big hit.

...and we'd be working with Stafford or Sanchez........

Just a guess, but I don't think the Broncos have any interest in a top-10 pick. In fact, I'm not so certain they're clamoring for another pick anywhere in the 1st round. I'd think they want more 2nd round picks. That's why I like the Jets/Browns rumor that nets us the #17 as we might be able to move that to a team that's out of the 1st round for a 2nd and some extra picks.

TheReverend
03-20-2009, 09:26 AM
Just a guess, but I don't think the Broncos have any interest in a top-10 pick. In fact, I'm not so certain they're clamoring for another pick anywhere in the 1st round. I'd think they want more 2nd round picks. That's why I like the Jets/Browns rumor that nets us the #17 as we might be able to move that to a team that's out of the 1st round for a 2nd and some extra picks.

I'd say that's more accurate, but it really makes getting anything near his value back in the deal, which is why they're more interested in acquiring players over picks.

I wish we could unload someone else and then pull triggers on Rey, Marks and Delmas, while keeping the O-in tact...

Oh well.

montrose
03-20-2009, 09:40 AM
Oh and I should expand on that rumor. It was being discussed yesterday on Sirius. Adam Schein who has good ties to the Jets said Mike Tannenbaum desperately wants Cutler as he thinks a QB is the final piece to the puzzle for a Super Bowl run. Because the Jets have spent so much in free agency the last two offseasons, they're going for it all this year and wouldn't have an issue with dealing picks. I guess the Browns aren't as hot on Cutler as some think because Mangini's experience with Favre has left him less-than-thrilled at the prospects of working with Cutler long-term but they would like a lot of picks. The framework of the rumored deal is:

Jets get Cutler
Browns get Jets 2010 1st rounder and extra picks this year
Broncos get Quinn, Rogers, #17

I don't think that's a knock-your-socks off deal but it makes some sense for all of the teams involved. I wouldn't mind moving the #17 (or #12) to pickup another 2nd rounder and some additional picks but the thought of sticking at #12 and getting both USC linebackers and then taking Sen'Derrick Marks in round 2 is appealing. I figure Scheffler's getting moved for another mid-rounder too.

QB: Quinn, Simms
RB: Hillis, Buckhalter, Arrington, Jordan
WR: Marshall, Royal, Gaffney, Stokley, Jackson
TE: Graham, Putzier
OT: Clady, Harris, Polumbus
G: Hamilton, Kuper, Young
C: Wiegmann, Lichtensteiger

DE: Thomas, Marks, Powell, Peterson
NT: Rogers, Fields, Parker
OLB: Cushing, B.Bailey, Woodyard, Moss, Dumervil, Reid
ILB: Maualuga, D.Williams, Davis, Larsen
CB: C.Bailey, Goodman, J.Williams, Bell
S: Dawkins, Hill, Barrett, Fox

ST: Prater, Kern, Paxton

lex
03-20-2009, 09:55 AM
Oh and I should expand on that rumor. It was being discussed yesterday on Sirius. Adam Schein who has good ties to the Jets said Mike Tannenbaum desperately wants Cutler as he thinks a QB is the final piece to the puzzle for a Super Bowl run. Because the Jets have spent so much in free agency the last two offseasons, they're going for it all this year and wouldn't have an issue with dealing picks. I guess the Browns aren't as hot on Cutler as some think because Mangini's experience with Favre has left him less-than-thrilled at the prospects of working with Cutler long-term but they would like a lot of picks. The framework of the rumored deal is:

Jets get Cutler
Browns get Jets 2010 1st rounder and extra picks this year
Broncos get Quinn, Rogers, #17

I don't think that's a knock-your-socks off deal but it makes some sense for all of the teams involved. I wouldn't mind moving the #17 (or #12) to pickup another 2nd rounder and some additional picks but the thought of sticking at #12 and getting both USC linebackers and then taking Sen'Derrick Marks in round 2 is appealing. I figure Scheffler's getting moved for another mid-rounder too.

QB: Quinn, Simms
RB: Hillis, Buckhalter, Arrington, Jordan
WR: Marshall, Royal, Gaffney, Stokley, Jackson
TE: Graham, Putzier
OT: Clady, Harris, Polumbus
G: Hamilton, Kuper, Young
C: Wiegmann, Lichtensteiger

DE: Thomas, Marks, Powell, Peterson
NT: Rogers, Fields, Parker
OLB: Cushing, B.Bailey, Woodyard, Moss, Dumervil, Reid
ILB: Maualuga, D.Williams, Davis, Larsen
CB: C.Bailey, Goodman, J.Williams, Bell
S: Dawkins, Hill, Barrett, Fox

ST: Prater, Kern, Paxton

If its not a knock your socks off deal, then its not really worth trading Cutler. We're not trading him for the sake of trading him and so that everyone can be happy. Again, Kirwan said 2 firsts and a player and Rogers does not equate to a first...not even close. And actually, the deal Kirwan was saying makes sense would be Clevelands #5, Quinn, and their first next year, which equates to a 2nd this year. And this was just a starting point. Youre deal is short on the 1st round pick (12 spots) and in other compensation (Rogers is probably a 4th). Again, theres no way that makes sense for Denver. When people kick these ideas around, they need to remember that Denver doesnt have to trade Cutler...its not a scenario where everyone is going to no one is going to feel like they give up too much. Such is the premium on 25 year old pro bowl QBs with very tradeable contracts.

montrose
03-20-2009, 10:04 AM
If its not a knock your socks off deal, then its not really worth trading Cutler. We're not trading him for the sake of trading him and so that everyone can be happy. Again, Kirwan said 2 firsts and a player and Rogers does not equate to a first...not even close. And actually, the deal Kirwan was saying makes sense would be Clevelands #5, Quinn, and their first next year, which equates to a 2nd this year. And this was just a starting point. Youre deal is short on the 1st round pick (12 spots) and in other compensation (Rogers is probably a 4th). Again, theres no way that makes sense for Denver. When people kick these ideas around, they need to remember that Denver doesnt have to trade Cutler...its not a scenario where everyone is going to no one is going to feel like they give up too much. Such is the premium on 25 year old pro bowl QBs with very tradeable contracts.

I do agree that it's low. I don't think I'd do it. I suppose it depends on how high you value Quinn. He's a young QB with upside, but far from a finished product. I'm not too interested in the #5 pick because of it's cost, but I suppose it does make for better value. If we got it, I'd probably want to move down from #12.

rugbythug
03-20-2009, 10:41 AM
I do agree that it's low. I don't think I'd do it. I suppose it depends on how high you value Quinn. He's a young QB with upside, but far from a finished product. I'm not too interested in the #5 pick because of it's cost, but I suppose it does make for better value. If we got it, I'd probably want to move down from #12.

They would move quinn for our 2nd in a heart beat. We could also probably get Lienart for our 3rd. Then we could issue some sort of collectors set.

TheReverend
03-20-2009, 10:45 AM
They would move quinn for our 2nd in a heart beat. We could also probably get Lienart for our 3rd. Then we could issue some sort of collectors set.

No you couldn't.

rugbythug
03-20-2009, 10:45 AM
Apparently, you've got some idea that Jay is just going to read that article and go, "oh, well, I guess I want to go back to work with Josh afterall."

What you're missing is the message that Josh sent to Cutler on the March 14 meeting, and the fact that the story on the Broncos side has changed so much throughout this ordeal that it's impossible to know what information is true or false.

So yeah, the last I saw we have a quarterback who is asking to be traded, and thus it's appropriate to focus on his trade value. I don't think Cutler has any intentions of coming back to Denver to work with Josh the Coach, no less Josh the QB Coordinator. And if you recall my position on this since it first blew up, I don't think having these two personalities on the same team is going to be a benefit. I think the dynamic is wrong and that it's appropriate for Josh to ship Cutler out at this point of the game to avoid future outbursts. I wish it didn't have to be like this, but we are where we are, and there's no sense in pretending that none of this happened.

Lets be Fair Taco. The Broncos have not changed there story one Iota. It has been we listened and didn't go for it. The whole time.

"We were late to the Dance." Does not mean they were going to go for it. They were never even able to get close because of the timing. If they actually wanted to trade Cutler and were trying to get it done. He wouldn't be a bronco.

rugbythug
03-20-2009, 10:46 AM
No you couldn't.

Take your realism to another board it is not needed here.

Smiling Assassin27
03-20-2009, 10:47 AM
i hear that one of them was the Saskatchewan Roughriders...

Rohirrim
03-20-2009, 10:50 AM
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Simms beat out Quinn in camp, making that deal a total failure.

Rohirrim
03-20-2009, 10:52 AM
Apparently, you've got some idea that Jay is just going to read that article and go, "oh, well, I guess I want to go back to work with Josh afterall."

What you're missing is the message that Josh sent to Cutler on the March 14 meeting, and the fact that the story on the Broncos side has changed so much throughout this ordeal that it's impossible to know what information is true or false.

So yeah, the last I saw we have a quarterback who is asking to be traded, and thus it's appropriate to focus on his trade value. I don't think Cutler has any intentions of coming back to Denver to work with Josh the Coach, no less Josh the QB Coordinator. And if you recall my position on this since it first blew up, I don't think having these two personalities on the same team is going to be a benefit. I think the dynamic is wrong and that it's appropriate for Josh to ship Cutler out at this point of the game to avoid future outbursts. I wish it didn't have to be like this, but we are where we are, and there's no sense in pretending that none of this happened.

I'd be interested in your opinion on this: If the Broncos decide to play hardball with Jay, refuse every offer, and tell Bus Cook they expect Jay to come to camp ready to play, what happens next?

Archer81
03-20-2009, 10:53 AM
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Simms beat out Quinn in camp, making that deal a total failure.



Wouldnt happen. They'd get on the field, see that sparkle in eachother's eyes and start making out in front of everybody. Kyle Shanahan will be devestated.


:Broncos:

dbfan4life
03-20-2009, 10:53 AM
Here's a good one. My Redskin friend thinks Cutler to the Skins, Cassel to Denver and Campbell and #13 to Chiefs is a fair trade!

Note how I didn't start a new thread with this ground breaking info? Chances are it's already been discussed.

bombay
03-20-2009, 10:54 AM
I'd be interested in your opinion on this. If the Broncos decide to play hardball with Jay, refuse every offer, and tell Bus Cook they expect Jay to come to camp ready to play, what happens next?


Yeah. He's under contract for the next three seasons. The Broncos don't owe it to him to trade him. And if he wants to get very rich, it's not in his own interest to not play to the best of his ability.

TheReverend
03-20-2009, 10:55 AM
Take your realism to another board it is not needed here.

Apologies. Carry on, sir.

lex
03-20-2009, 10:57 AM
I do agree that it's low. I don't think I'd do it. I suppose it depends on how high you value Quinn. He's a young QB with upside, but far from a finished product. I'm not too interested in the #5 pick because of it's cost, but I suppose it does make for better value. If we got it, I'd probably want to move down from #12.

Quinn is one guy Id be slightly optimistic about. Also, getting Rogers would be a plus. At that point it becomes a little clouded. I mean, the #5 would give us a shot at Everette Brown but we already have Moss and Dumervil. We could go ILB but the two most important positions are NT and rush LB in a 3-4. If we are wanting to see how Doom or Moss play out, then the #5 isnt as significant. Having two picks in the 10s would give us the flexibility to take some combination of LB/S/RB.

Needa Pass Rush
03-20-2009, 10:58 AM
Supply and demand, baby. We should demand that we keep the supply.

lex
03-20-2009, 10:58 AM
Here's a good one. My Redskin friend thinks Cutler to the Skins, Cassel to Denver and Campbell and #13 to Chiefs is a fair trade!

Note how I didn't start a new thread with this ground breaking info? Chances are it's already been discussed.

Thats horrible.

TheReverend
03-20-2009, 11:23 AM
Supply and demand, baby. We should demand that we keep the supply.

Good man.

Rohirrim
03-20-2009, 11:24 AM
If the Jets came calling, I'd say the deal would be: #17, #52, Next year's first and third, and Kerry Rhodes.

If it was the Browns I'd say: #5, #36, next year's first and Shaun Roger.

If it was the Vikes: #22, #54, Next year's first and second, and EJ Henderson.

If it was the Skins: #13, #80, Next year's first and second, and Landry

If it was TBay: #19, #81, Next years first, second and third and Gaines Adams.

And if they don't like it, **** 'em. ;D

TonyR
03-20-2009, 11:39 AM
The framework of the rumored deal is:

Jets get Cutler
Browns get Jets 2010 1st rounder and extra picks this year
Broncos get Quinn, Rogers, #17

I don't think that's a knock-your-socks off deal but it makes some sense for all of the teams involved.

One thing that doesn't make sense for me with this deal from Cleveland's standpoint is how are they replacing Rogers if they move him? Why would they let him go unless perhaps they think they can do something with the Jet's #1? They need a NT in their 3-4 just as we do.

Tombstone RJ
03-20-2009, 11:45 AM
Looks like he hasn't hurt his value too much afterall...

Just because teams are saying "keep us in mind if you want to trade Cutler" does not mean they will give up two first rounders and a starting QB to get him.

Right now, it behooves the Broncos to just sit back and listen. Come draft time, some teams may be in a more capitulating mood, but we shall see.

TonyR
03-20-2009, 11:52 AM
For what it's worth...

“MORE THAN TEN” TEAMS HAVE CALLED ABOUT CUTLER
Posted by Mike Florio on March 20, 2009, 11:49 a.m. EDT
As the fractured relationship between the Broncos and quarterback Jay Cutler gets no closer to a bottle of Super Glue, Mike Klis of the Denver Post reports that “more than ten” teams have called the Broncos this week to inquire about Cutler.

The Broncos reportedly have listened, but also have told the callers that “the plan is not to trade Cutler.”

Here’s our take. The Broncos have decided to trade Cutler, and this is the first step in getting the word out.

Really, who would know that more than ten teams called the Broncos other than the Broncos? And if the Broncos are dead set on keeping Cutler, why would they make it known that there’s a viable market for the guy who has asked to be traded?

That said, there’s a chance that the unnamed source is a rogue who personally wants to see Cutler gone, against the institutional intention to keep him around.

But our sense is that this report is part of a plan, likely hatched by COO Joe Ellis, to commence the process of sparking an auction for an asset that the Broncos desperately need to dump.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/20/more-than-ten-teams-have-called-about-cutler/


Interesting that Joe Ellis's name hasn't come up much during all of this. Isn't he Bowlen's right hand man? I keep hearing how there is so much youth and inexperience in the FO but those comments tend to leave Ellis out of the equation.

UberBroncoMan
03-20-2009, 11:58 AM
Looks like he hasn't hurt his value too much afterall...

There's a reason in the Cassel trade talk, that teams were trying to get Cutler. If Cassel was all that, Tampa Bay and Detroit would have just gone for him and forgotten about Cutler. Teams recognize how rare it is to get a young franchise QB like Cutler. He's only 3 years in and could be considered at the beginning of his career and about to enter his prime. That's a rare commodity that any team would be stupid to pass up. If Denver wants to get rid of Cutler and go back to mediocrity at QB, we will get what we want in return for him (multiple 1st round picks, at least a 2nd rounder, players etc). The QB is the most important position on the team, and knowing that you're set there means you don't have to worry about drafting bust after bust at the QB position anymore in the future and lets you focus even more attention to having a strong defense. All I can say is if Cutler goes, we suck the next two years, McTard gets fired, and we're back to square 1 and without a QB... ****.

Hercules Rockefeller
03-20-2009, 01:26 PM
Never realized how many people who work in the organization post on this board. Who'd thunk it that we would all get to know that Denver can't afford multiple 1st round picks this year and that they would really like to go for a shotgun approach if they take draft picks for Cutler, with quantity over quality?

BroncoBuff
03-20-2009, 10:04 PM
McDaniels admitted to Cutler he had interest in Cassel after coaching him the previous three seasons as New England's offensive coordinator. But McDaniels also said his interest never reached a point where he submitted the idea to Bowlen. Cassel was instead traded to Kansas City.

The bolded part, if true, will cause me to shift much of my position on this. If Josh at the very least has to "submit" trade ideas to Bowlen - that changes much of my criticism Bowlen has given Josh too much power. I'm still concerned Josh is performing too many GM-like duties, especially for a green kid who should be spending every waking moment trying to teach this offense to the players.

In fact, if I'm honest with myself, my pro-Jay position has very little to do with whether he was shopped or lied to. My pro-Jay position is half: I love Jay, and half: These newcomers are in fact newcomers.

THE VERY BEST SCENARIO, hands down, is for Jay and Josh to get together and iron things out. And unless Josh is being insulting or disrespectful to Jay, the guy who has to step up to iron things out is Jay. Bowlen and Josh have to do sometghing to help him save face though ... that's key now ... give him a lifeline.
.

Popps
03-20-2009, 10:23 PM
I'm still concerned Josh is performing too many GM-like duties, especially for a green kid who should be spending every waking moment trying to teach this offense to the players. that's key now ... give him a lifeline.
.

Buff,

I don't think we know exactly how many "GM duties" he's performing, but I do know that Xanders was a guy I truly believe we targeted a long time ago. He was brought in last year in what seemed like a very forced move to be the AGM. This is just a pure guess, but the guy sounds like he's absolutely clawed and kicked his way up the NFL ladder, and I'm guessing word was getting to Bowlen and Co. about him being a (potential) future star long before this year.

In 14 seasons in Atlanta, he worked with the Falcons in a variety of capacities, including player personnel, coaching, salary cap management, information technology and business management.

So, I've got good reason to believe that the duties are being split up accordingly, and as you pointed out, the language being used still reflects that of Bowlen having a big say in these decisions.

On that topic, I also believe Bowlen is much more involved in this current situation than people give him credit for. But, I also believe he's attempting NOT to try to step in and get in the way of his head coach taking care of business. People are asking why Bowlen hasn't "stepped in," but what could he do? Honestly... publicly go against his head coach this soon? Besides, we have no proof that he's not buying into the entire philosophy more than just a QB with a big arm.

Remember, Denver interviewed a bunch of people.... and when they got to McDaniels, it was over. They were blown away. They couldn't hire him fast enough. So, people can bash him... but there's something there. Why would the Broncos brass all come away saying they were so floored by this guy if it weren't true? They had their pick. We were considered the best job out there.

Point is, those who think Bowlen hasn't stepped in may be missing the possible explanation that this IS him stepping in.

As for McDaniel having some say over personnel, that's normal.... and remember, Shanahan came in and did the same thing, and turned this franchise around in less than two years. So, while we don't have any pure evidence that McDaniel has been overly active (meaning perhaps taking on some GM tasks) ... I'd think an aggressive coach with a concise plan would be what we want.

Rock Chalk
03-21-2009, 12:00 AM
Broncos dance party: Ten teams like Cutler
The team has listened but is telling suitors it wants to keep its angry QB.
[i] bunch of bull**** that doesnt matter

How many times does Jay need to be told that we dont want to trade him before he shuts his ****ing mouth and gets to work?

Archer81
03-21-2009, 01:12 AM
This is a situation that has nothing to do with McDaniels or trade talks or even a new contract. jay is pissed because Shanny is gone. Everything since then has been a series of blunders built on a sand pit...Jay needs to get the sand out of his vag and get back to work.


:Broncos:

Drek
03-21-2009, 06:13 AM
The bolded part, if true, will cause me to shift much of my position on this. If Josh at the very least has to "submit" trade ideas to Bowlen - that changes much of my criticism Bowlen has given Josh too much power. I'm still concerned Josh is performing too many GM-like duties, especially for a green kid who should be spending every waking moment trying to teach this offense to the players.
He very well may be given a pretty heavy hand in the running of the team, but I think he and Xanders probably go over most moves together regardless of who has final say (as they reportedly have an excellent working relationship already), and I don't think McDaniels cold called Mike Nolan even before having the job just to have the guy run the defense. He was getting himself a veteran former HC who was in the player personnel driver's seat completely at his last job to give him an experienced sounding board.

In fact, if I'm honest with myself, my pro-Jay position has very little to do with whether he was shopped or lied to. My pro-Jay position is half: I love Jay, and half: These newcomers are in fact newcomers.

THE VERY BEST SCENARIO, hands down, is for Jay and Josh to get together and iron things out. And unless Josh is being insulting or disrespectful to Jay, the guy who has to step up to iron things out is Jay. Bowlen and Josh have to do sometghing to help him save face though ... that's key now ... give him a lifeline.
.
I think this is the real viewpoint of most pro-Jay people here, and its completely valid. We know Jay, he's wowed us on the field more than a few times, and we have all bought into the hype (much of it deserved) that he'll be the next great QB in this league.

I've been saying for the last week or so that I think this problem goes away come mandatory mini-camps when Josh will finally be able to force the one on one meeting he's been asking for since this whole mess started. No Bus Cook, no Brian Xanders, no Pat Bowlen. It won't be a confrontational player/agent vs. organization meeting and it can instead be a coach talking to and taking care of whats bothering his star player. It'll probably consist of McDaniels telling Cutler that he was looking at a modern day Herschel Walker level of picks in return, and that if it was just Cassel for Cutler he'd have laughed his ass of for a week at the notion. Cutler will finally hear what McDaniels is trying to tell him without Bus Cook throwing some spin on it, and they'll be all good.

I honestly think that if they just bury the hatchet on this one incident and get to playing actual football they'll be an inseparable duo the rest of their careers and will set the league on fire offensively. Their talents as it pertains to the football field just dovetail too well for them not to.

Hamrob
03-21-2009, 08:17 AM
I apologize in advance...but anyone who would compare Jay Cutler to Jeff George is a F***ing idiot!

Hamrob
03-21-2009, 08:18 AM
How many times does Jay need to be told that we dont want to trade him before he shuts his ****ing mouth and gets to work?Jay Cutler will get to work as soon as it is required for him to do so! Meaning he will be in the Broncos mini-camp next month right before the draft.

Hamrob
03-21-2009, 08:21 AM
Buff,

I don't think we know exactly how many "GM duties" he's performing, but I do know that Xanders was a guy I truly believe we targeted a long time ago. He was brought in last year in what seemed like a very forced move to be the AGM. This is just a pure guess, but the guy sounds like he's absolutely clawed and kicked his way up the NFL ladder, and I'm guessing word was getting to Bowlen and Co. about him being a (potential) future star long before this year.

In 14 seasons in Atlanta, he worked with the Falcons in a variety of capacities, including player personnel, coaching, salary cap management, information technology and business management.

So, I've got good reason to believe that the duties are being split up accordingly, and as you pointed out, the language being used still reflects that of Bowlen having a big say in these decisions.

On that topic, I also believe Bowlen is much more involved in this current situation than people give him credit for. But, I also believe he's attempting NOT to try to step in and get in the way of his head coach taking care of business. People are asking why Bowlen hasn't "stepped in," but what could he do? Honestly... publicly go against his head coach this soon? Besides, we have no proof that he's not buying into the entire philosophy more than just a QB with a big arm.

Remember, Denver interviewed a bunch of people.... and when they got to McDaniels, it was over. They were blown away. They couldn't hire him fast enough. So, people can bash him... but there's something there. Why would the Broncos brass all come away saying they were so floored by this guy if it weren't true? They had their pick. We were considered the best job out there.

Point is, those who think Bowlen hasn't stepped in may be missing the possible explanation that this IS him stepping in.

As for McDaniel having some say over personnel, that's normal.... and remember, Shanahan came in and did the same thing, and turned this franchise around in less than two years. So, while we don't have any pure evidence that McDaniel has been overly active (meaning perhaps taking on some GM tasks) ... I'd think an aggressive coach with a concise plan would be what we want.Yeah Shanny turned this team around in 2yrs with a cetain #7...and if McDip**** thinks he can do the same he will need a certain #6!

barryr
03-21-2009, 11:29 AM
There may be many teams wanting Cutler, but how many willing to give up anything that great? Yeah, if a team could get Cutler for cheap, I think any team wanting a QB would jump on that one.

lex
03-21-2009, 12:13 PM
If Chicago was one of those teams, Im guessing the conversation went something like this:

Brian Xanders: Hello"

Jerry Angelo: Hello, Brian, this is Jerry Angelo in Chicago. Is it true your fielding offers for Cutler?

Brian Xanders: Yes, as you know Jay has asked for a trade and some teams have called. Are you interested?

Jerry Angelo: I was just checking. OK. Thanks. Bye.

--------


And then Jerry Angelo will tell the Chicago press that he looked into it. Its the typical Chicago GM move.

Popps
03-21-2009, 12:14 PM
Yeah Shanny turned this team around in 2yrs with a cetain #7...and if McDip**** thinks he can do the same he will need a certain #6!

Atlanta and Miami made the playoffs after what amounted to a ONE year turn around.

Neither of them had "#6".

You're making statements that confusing what you hope is the case, for reality.

NFLBRONCO
03-21-2009, 01:20 PM
I think Denver needs a top 10 draft pick in any deal for Cutler. I don't see how mid to low round picks help Denver. I know high picks don't guarantee anything but, at least it gives you options to grab a QB or move down and collect another 2nd rounder or whatever.

lex
03-21-2009, 01:22 PM
I think Denver needs a top 10 draft pick in any deal for Cutler. I don't see how mid to low round picks help Denver. I know high picks don't guarantee anything but, at least it gives you options to grab a QB or move down and collect another 2nd rounder or whatever.

If Denver trades Cutler, they have no business drafting a QB with a high pick.

NFLBRONCO
03-21-2009, 01:25 PM
If Denver trades Cutler, they have no business drafting a QB with a high pick.

I wouldn't either if it was me but, I'm not in charge.

Beantown Bronco
03-21-2009, 03:41 PM
I wouldn't either if it was me but, I'm not in charge.

What are you, the one guilty guy at Shawshank? Me personally, my lawyer f**ked me.

Didn't you know that we are all in charge here?

NFLBRONCO
03-21-2009, 03:57 PM
What are you, the one guilty guy at Shawshank? Me personally, my lawyer ****ed me.

Didn't you know that we are all in charge here?


I stand corrected thank you. Which one of you are going to fly to TN and fix this?

rastaman
03-22-2009, 05:15 AM
Mcdaniels should call Cutler and have some humility. Say listen I screwed up by trying to sweep it under the rug. I was hoping we could start over by you flying to Denver and leading the team. They want you here, I want you here, the fans want you here, the owner wants you here.

What do you say Jay, ready to play some football?

Then if he comes back and leads the team, shows he isn't a whiner but a winner, give him a fat new contract next offseason.

You know Cut, Jay could come in over the next 2 or 3 season and help Denver win and make McDaniels look good and continue to demand a trade each of those seasons or just play out his contract and move on to another team. However, I must admit begrudingly that Cutler must playout is contract, but protest and disagree vehmently if the Broncos try and franchise tag Cutler two consecutive years after his 6 year contract is over.

The Jay Cutler haters would still be foaming at the mouth and pissed off...b/c Cutler had the nerve not to want to be a Bronco!!!

Point is, Cutler would still have the same label he currently has with the fans who are upset at him. Some fans (not just Bronco fans) view players in the NFL are there for their own personal enjoyment and entertainmentThe fans should just respect the fact that some players don't want to be Broncos for their entire career and just enjoy the Player(s) while they wearing a Bronco uniform. No one gets to have theri cake and eat it to!

Point is, I think Cassell and McDaniels need each other. And Cutler and Shanahan need on another. There was a time Elway and Shanahan needed each other as well. Plain and simple. Who would have ever thought or predicted that a season ending injury to Brady and the firing of Shanahan would lead us all down the road to Cutler-McDaniel Gate.

Sometimes management tells a player its time to move on or the team has elected to go in another direction......well sometimes a player is in a unique position (Not Often) to want to move on or go in another direction.

Why can't the Broncos fans see it this way as well and stop with all the hating and hurt feelings.....life is to short and an NFL Player career is even shorter----That is unless you happen to be a fan, a HC, or an owner...your careers tend to last a lot longer.

Circle Orange
03-22-2009, 08:58 AM
How many times does Jay need to be told that we dont want to trade him before he shuts his ****ing mouth and gets to work?

*winks* because you see, it's a secret conspiracy and management is really lying...or so it supposedly goes, according to media sources that keep cranking out these "nothing" updates. http://scosoft.com/s/r/774075bb.gif

lex
03-22-2009, 09:37 AM
*winks* because you see, it's a secret conspiracy and management is really lying...or so it supposedly goes, according to media sources that keep cranking out these "nothing" updates. http://scosoft.com/s/r/774075bb.gif

Or it might be the fact that in his two meetings with McDaniels, he has twice insisted that anyone is tradeable.