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View Full Version : Is it time to let Mike Nolan run the personnel Decisions?


lostknight
03-19-2009, 09:48 AM
No matter who you think is in the right in the Cutler versus McDaniels saga, we are left at the same point - The broncos probably have to trade Cutler and can't hope to get a quarterback even slightly in the same league as Cutler. At the very least McDaniels got played like a fiddle by Cook. At the worse, McDaniels sacrificed the franchise to get together with his boy toy.

Has it really come to this?

Somehow McDaniels has gotten unquestioned GM decisions in the offensive, but perhaps not defensive sphere. The question I have is if the Broncos can somehow salvage this by using Mike Nolan (who at least has done the job before) as a check on the wunderkid to sanity check decisions prior to the Broncos shooting themselves in the foot.

This would keep McDaniels from making decisions that embarrass the franchise, keep Cutler from using McDaniels as a excuse to ditch his contract, and keep Pat Bowlen away from both the day to day decision making process and the bottle the way things are going.

We need someone with GM experience. Since no one else in the organization has it, is it time for Nolan to step up?

theAPAOps5
03-19-2009, 09:51 AM
No he needs to focus on this defense. I am sure he has a large amount of input on who to draft to help fix this team. But he would be to constrained with the added role of DeFacto GM

eddie mac
03-19-2009, 09:52 AM
Since when has Nolan been a GM???

tsiguy96
03-19-2009, 09:53 AM
you do realize, aside from this cutler BS, we have essentially a brand new starting defense with much better upside then the one we did last year? now we can get into draft getting BPA instead of filling needs on defense.

lex
03-19-2009, 09:54 AM
Since when has Nolan been a GM???

Who else in the organization is more qualified?

Dagmar
03-19-2009, 09:55 AM
you do realize, aside from this cutler BS, we have essentially a brand new starting defense with much better upside then the one we did last year? now we can get into draft getting BPA instead of filling needs on defense.

No, the sky is falling, the sky is falling! There will be no draft!!!

lostknight
03-19-2009, 09:56 AM
My understanding is that he excercised some GM roles in his last job.

And frankly, the point that no one else is as qualified matters.

I wonder if McDaniels is actually the one picking (D) talent, or Nolan is. Given that we have a pretty good track record with (D) talent this off season and a horrific record with (O) talent (Buckhalter, firing Leech, etc) I suspect that Nolan is running (D) as a feifdom.

socalorado
03-19-2009, 09:57 AM
Who else in the organization is more qualified?

This better be a Nolan draft. from start to finish.

worm
03-19-2009, 09:59 AM
Since when has Nolan been a GM???

Just as long as Josh.

lostknight
03-19-2009, 10:03 AM
By the way, I think Xanders tried to fix this situation. I just don't think Xanders knew exactly how dedicated McDaniels was to the idea of getting rid of Cutler.

tsiguy96
03-19-2009, 10:04 AM
My understanding is that he excercised some GM roles in his last job.

And frankly, the point that no one else is as qualified matters.

I wonder if McDaniels is actually the one picking (D) talent, or Nolan is. Given that we have a pretty good track record with (D) talent this off season and a horrific record with (O) talent (Buckhalter, firing Leech, etc) I suspect that Nolan is running (D) as a feifdom.

that same o style talent is the same way the patriots have been picking players for years, under the radar style free agents, maybe an occasional big splash. worked pretty well for them. shannys last two years were jokes as GM, this year has been really good.

Drek
03-19-2009, 10:09 AM
You guys do realize that Nolan was running the show in SF right? Where he basically only drafted a few good defensive players and got **** all on the offensive side of the ball, right?

And grossly overpaid Nate Clements as well as other defensive players to come to SF.

He's a damn good DC but he's **** at running an organization. This is quite possibly the stupidest idea anyone has thrown out on this board in months, and that takes some doing.

lex
03-19-2009, 10:11 AM
This better be a Nolan draft. from start to finish.


Or else?

eddie mac
03-19-2009, 10:12 AM
Just as long as Josh.

Last time I checked Xanders was the GM. McDaniels is the HC. Was there a firing I missed or something???

Better still Nolan took a job under McDaniels working as D-Co-Ordinator.

DrFate
03-19-2009, 10:13 AM
Xanders is supposed to be the GM. I keep wondering who is actually in charge of player personnel matters now.

eddie mac
03-19-2009, 10:15 AM
Xanders is supposed to be the GM. I keep wondering who is actually in charge of player personnel matters now.

The one who said no when McDaniels took the Cutler/Cassel proposal to him.

Killericon
03-19-2009, 10:15 AM
By the way, I think Xanders tried to fix this situation. I just don't think Xanders knew exactly how dedicated McDaniels was to the idea of getting rid of Cutler.

Do you have any reason to think that Josh is dedicated to getting rid of Cutler, or to think that Xanders is operating independently of him?

lostknight
03-19-2009, 10:16 AM
getting lousy talent is better then burning down the franchise, which is what McDaniels appears to be doing right now.

oubronco
03-19-2009, 10:16 AM
Nolan the defensive coordinator has his hands full trying to fix this thing thats called a defense

Pick Six
03-19-2009, 10:19 AM
Nobody on this board actually knows the truth about what happened regarding Cutler. Therefore, we are left with the personnel decisions that HAVE been made. Changing long snappers is a head scratcher, but it may turn out to be a good thing. Dawkins is a legitimate safety, and we'll see if he has anything left in the tank. All those running backs have been brought in for competition, which is a very good thing. There is very little that is wrong with the personnel decisions made to this point...

Smiling Assassin27
03-19-2009, 10:19 AM
Didn't Mike Nolan pick Alex Smith? Nuff said.

DrFate
03-19-2009, 10:19 AM
The one who said no when McDaniels took the Cutler/Cassel proposal to him.

That may be so. If true, it would explain a few things - I guess. I still wonder what kind of judgement that McDaniels has when it comes to his first move being to move Cutler out of town.

socalorado
03-19-2009, 10:19 AM
Or else?

Or else i'm gonna throw a "LEX" sized tantrum!!

lex
03-19-2009, 10:19 AM
The one who said no when McDaniels took the Cutler/Cassel proposal to him.


Josh has since told Peter King that the trade didnt happen because they arrive too late, not because deals were nixed by Xanders.

eddie mac
03-19-2009, 10:20 AM
BTW all the fans on here who have no respect for McDaniels at all must be right considering the following coaches grabbed the chance to work under him.

Nolan-One of the best D-Co-ordinators in this league over the past 10 years

Nunnely-The best 3-4 line tutor in football

Morrison-One of the best LB coaches around and was in consideration for Raiders HC vacancy

Turner-Dennison decided to stay on as positional coaches and in Dennison's case it was a demotion.

supermanhr9
03-19-2009, 10:20 AM
we all ahve to admit it's pretty hilarious watchign a spoiled brat nto get his way. As much as we may disagree with everything going on, I love it when a spoiled whiny brat gets set straight. I love Cutler, but I'm starting to think you knwo what, a franchise QB isn't all what it's cracked up to be.

bronco militia
03-19-2009, 10:20 AM
Since when has Nolan been a GM???

Nolan had the same setup as Shanny in San fran....the Owner took away his GM keys a year or two before he was fired.

eddie mac
03-19-2009, 10:22 AM
That may be so. If true, it would explain a few things - I guess. I still wonder what kind of judgement that McDaniels has when it comes to his first move being to move Cutler out of town.

Dr F if 2 sources are to be believed the real deal involving Cassel for Cutler that McDaniels presented to Xanders would've also given the Broncos 3 1st rd picks including 1-1, 1-20 and their own.

How can you not consider an offer like that???

Also if McDaniels was offered the deal as many sources have suggested it is his job to take any trade offer to Xanders as he is the GM.

lex
03-19-2009, 10:24 AM
BTW all the fans on here who have no respect for McDaniels at all must be right considering the following coaches grabbed the chance to work under him.

Nolan-One of the best D-Co-ordinators in this league over the past 10 years

Nunnely-The best 3-4 line tutor in football

Morrison-One of the best LB coaches around and was in consideration for Raiders HC vacancy

Turner-Dennison decided to stay on as positional coaches and in Dennison's case it was a demotion.

Im not convinced that Pat didnt have more to do with that than McDaniels, especially with Nolan. Pat takes care of assistants and has a reputation of being an owner who is good to work for. Plus, at one of the press conferences around the time he fired Shanahan, Pat said he knows Denver is a desirable place to be and that he wanted to leverage that cache.

DrFate
03-19-2009, 10:24 AM
BTW all the fans on here who have no respect for McDaniels at all must be right considering the following coaches grabbed the chance to work under him.

You also need to consider that at least one of these guys was in the unemployment line. He'd have taken the HC job on Friday Night Lights if Coach Taylor were fired.

socalorado
03-19-2009, 10:31 AM
Im not convinced that Pat didnt have more to do with that than McDaniels, especially with Nolan. Pat takes care of assistants and has a reputation of being an owner who is good to work for. Plus, at one of the press conferences around the time he fired Shanahan, Pat said he knows Denver is a desirable place to be and that he wanted to leverage that cache.

And Nolan was a LB coach for DEN already.

crush17
03-19-2009, 10:32 AM
god SHUT UP.

lookin' glass
03-19-2009, 10:35 AM
Didn't Mike Nolan pick Alex Smith? Nuff said.

His handling of Smith is also a point of contention to most people in the bay area. When Norv Turner was the OC Alex Smith looked a whole lot better. The next year Turner went to SD the new SF OC was a doorknob Smith suffered tremendously and Nolan basically shut Smith out. I'd be inclined to leave Nolan to his current task.

BroncoBuff
03-19-2009, 10:35 AM
I have an idea!

Why don't we hire a REAL general manager and give HIM authority on personnel matters. You know, like the traditional model?

Then we can tell this brash young kid - who's lucky to have a head caching job at his age - to concentrate on COACHING - and leave the front office stuff to front office people.

I think that's a GREAT idea!
,

TonyR
03-19-2009, 10:38 AM
Josh has since told Peter King that the trade didnt happen because they arrive too late...

Everyone is grasping to this quote as some kind of undeniable proof that McD actively shopped Cutler. I think that's a reach. There's no way to know for sure exactly what he meant by that comment. He may have just been using those words in the context of saying that the trade talks never went very far. The Broncos were looped into trade discussions too late. I'm not sure how this proves some premeditated, concrete, diabolical plan to trade Jay Cutler for Matt Cassel and that Denver instigated the trade talks. But those of you who love to bash McD can just keep running with it if that's what helps you sleep at night.

BroncoBuff
03-19-2009, 10:40 AM
No matter who you think is in the right in the Cutler versus McDaniels saga, we are left at the same point - The broncos probably have to trade Cutler and can't hope to get a quarterback even slightly in the same league as Cutler. At the very least McDaniels got played like a fiddle by Cook. At the worse, McDaniels sacrificed the franchise to get together with his boy toy.

Has it really come to this?

Somehow McDaniels has gotten unquestioned GM decisions in the offensive, but perhaps not defensive sphere. The question I have is if the Broncos can somehow salvage this by using Mike Nolan (who at least has done the job before) as a check on the wunderkid to sanity check decisions prior to the Broncos shooting themselves in the foot.

This would keep McDaniels from making decisions that embarrass the franchise, keep Cutler from using McDaniels as a excuse to ditch his contract, and keep Pat Bowlen away from both the day to day decision making process and the bottle the way things are going.

We need someone with GM experience. Since no one else in the organization has it, is it time for Nolan to step up?

That's a damn good post, good stuff, rep. ^5

oubronco
03-19-2009, 10:42 AM
I have an idea!

Why don't we hire a REAL general manager and give HIM authority on personnel matters. You know, like the traditional model?

Then we can tell this brash young kid - who's lucky to have a head caching job at his age - to concentrate on COACHING - and leave the front office stuff to front office people.

I think that's a GREAT idea!
,

X2

BroncoBuff
03-19-2009, 10:42 AM
Everyone is grasping to this quote as some kind of undeniable proof that McD actively shopped Cutler. I think that's a reach. There's no way to know for sure exactly what he meant by that comment. He may have just been using those words in the context of saying that the trade talks never went very far. The Broncos were looped into trade discussions too late. I'm not sure how this proves some premeditated, concrete, diabolical plan to trade Jay Cutler for Matt Cassel and that Denver instigated the trade talks. But those of you who love to bash McD can just keep running with it if that's what helps you sleep at night.

I just got through telling Drek he's about the only guy left who doesn't think Josh tried to trade Jay. Do you also think Josh didn't try to trade Jay?
.

DBBBSBS
03-19-2009, 11:05 AM
How many more stupid threads do mane have to see... enough said.

TonyR
03-19-2009, 11:10 AM
I just got through telling Drek he's about the only guy left who doesn't think Josh tried to trade Jay. Do you also think Josh didn't try to trade Jay?


I think it's very possible he "tried to trade Jay", probably even likely he did so. What I DON'T know, and neither do you, is whether or not this was instigated by other teams or by Josh himself. He very well may not have had any intention to trade Jay, but as Drek and many others have pointed out if he got calls suggesting the possibility of getting Cassel and multiple day 1 picks how could he not listen and perform due diligence? Why is this so hard for some of you people to understand? It's VERY simple.

BroncoBuff
03-19-2009, 11:50 AM
I think it's very possible he "tried to trade Jay", probably even likely he did so. What I DON'T know, and neither do you, is whether or not this was instigated by other teams or by Josh himself. He very well may not have had any intention to trade Jay, but as Drek and many others have pointed out if he got calls suggesting the possibility of getting Cassel and multiple day 1 picks how could he not listen and perform due diligence? Why is this so hard for some of you people to understand? It's VERY simple.

I am DEFINITELY not in that crowd ... of COURSE he had to listen to offers, and I think Cassel + #1 + #20 was a good deal, I almost would've taken it.

Right now I think Brady Quinn, Shaun Rogers and the #5 pick is damned enticing, too.


(Interesting that you too only refer to "Josh" as the person in charge. Therein lies the biggest part of this problem - too much power for a kid with no front office experience. Bowlen was too weak to implement the power structure he promised (click here) (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=78601).)

RaiderH8r
03-19-2009, 11:56 AM
No matter who you think is in the right in the Cutler versus McDaniels saga, we are left at the same point - The broncos probably have to trade Cutler and can't hope to get a quarterback even slightly in the same league as Cutler. At the very least McDaniels got played like a fiddle by Cook. At the worse, McDaniels sacrificed the franchise to get together with his boy toy.

Has it really come to this?

Somehow McDaniels has gotten unquestioned GM decisions in the offensive, but perhaps not defensive sphere. The question I have is if the Broncos can somehow salvage this by using Mike Nolan (who at least has done the job before) as a check on the wunderkid to sanity check decisions prior to the Broncos shooting themselves in the foot.

This would keep McDaniels from making decisions that embarrass the franchise, keep Cutler from using McDaniels as a excuse to ditch his contract, and keep Pat Bowlen away from both the day to day decision making process and the bottle the way things are going.

We need someone with GM experience. Since no one else in the organization has it, is it time for Nolan to step up?

You make a good point.

Here's what aggrivates me...at this point I'm an upgrade at GM, hell over our entire FO operation because I know enough not to step on your d!ck with franchise players. And that is saying something. Hell, I'm sending my resume' in to Pat tomorrow.

So to answer your question, yes, we need some levity in the personnel department. We need someone with NFL experience, especially this time of year when teams are jockeying for your six ready and willing to dole out surprise buttsecks to any team not watching its collective ass. If that person is Nolan, then so be it. But Nolan or not this whole situation tells me that the organization needs to seriously consider going out and getting experienced talent to run the FO and take the GM keys away from McD. McD is a kid that needs to be put in his place as much as anybody right now.

TonyR
03-19-2009, 11:56 AM
Interesting that you too only refer to "Josh" as the person in charge. Therein lies the biggest part of this problem - too much power for a kid with no front office experience. Bowlen was too weak to implement.

If this is the case, which some evidence certainly suggests it may be, I agree with you.

worm
03-19-2009, 11:57 AM
His handling of Smith is also a point of contention to most people in the bay area. When Norv Turner was the OC Alex Smith looked a whole lot better. The next year Turner went to SD the new SF OC was a doorknob Smith suffered tremendously and Nolan basically shut Smith out. I'd be inclined to leave Nolan to his current task.

This is a good point for those thinking Nolan is some kind of personnel phenom.

Smith is on record as saying that Nolan undermined his role in the locker room. At the very least, the two of them were definitely not on the same page.

RaiderH8r
03-19-2009, 12:01 PM
This is a good point for those thinking Nolan is some kind of personnel phenom.

Smith is on record as saying that Nolan undermined his role in the locker room. At the very least, the two of them were definitely not on the same page.

At best giving Nolan some veto power in the current structure would be the best stop gap measure to put the brakes on shoddy personnel management. Is it the best way to go? Not by a long shot because once a guy has that bit of power its going to be tough to get it back and you have to consider that getting that power back means getting rid of the guy, which whould mean Denver in search of another DC...again.

The whole situation stinks to high heaven. Bowlen may have to be a bit more involved in our FO than he has been in the past and weighing in on some issues. Or, perhaps, we find a "consultant" type like other teams have in Parcells and Reeves and such. Not saying we get those guys but we've got to find a better way to polish this turd.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2009, 12:10 PM
Who else in the organization is more qualified?

I know Lex has me on block, but seriously, has he ever said anything smart? Ever?

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2009, 12:16 PM
You also need to consider that at least one of these guys was in the unemployment line. He'd have taken the HC job on Friday Night Lights if Coach Taylor were fired.

Coach Taylor was fired. None of them replaced him:)

Drek
03-19-2009, 12:16 PM
Im not convinced that Pat didnt have more to do with that than McDaniels, especially with Nolan. Pat takes care of assistants and has a reputation of being an owner who is good to work for. Plus, at one of the press conferences around the time he fired Shanahan, Pat said he knows Denver is a desirable place to be and that he wanted to leverage that cache.
Nope, it was entirely McDaniels. He did a radio interview shortly after getting hired with the Broncos where he said he'd already contacted Nolan about a week before to see if he could line him up for the job if Bowlen chose him.

I figured it had to be a Bowlen thing myself, but apparently McDaniels basically cold called Nolan and asked him to be his DC even before he had the Broncos job, hence why Nolan was in place so quickly after the hire and why their assistant staff was such a rapid chain of hirings. They had it all sorted out in advance.

The power structure in Dove Valley NEEDS to be:

1. Pat Bowlen, and he actually has to be involved for once.

2. Josh McDaniels, its his team, he should get to pick out the pieces.

3. Brian Xanders, should have complete autonomy to run the scouting department, team finances, contract negotiations, all things cap, and he should be telling McDaniels how much money they have to spend.

4. Mike Nolan, as the coordinator with the most high level experience and the biggest undertaking at hand he should be a frequent sounding board but never a decision maker.

I think 2, 3, and 4 are quite comfortable with those roles. My big question is if Bowlen is stepping up into the role of being a legitimate NFL owner, not just a guy who signs checks for Mike Shanahan's franchise.

lostknight
03-19-2009, 12:20 PM
I am DEFINITELY not in that crowd ... of COURSE he had to listen to offers, and I think Cassel + #1 + #20 was a good deal, I almost would've taken it.


Surprisingly. I don't disagree. However, firing the Goodmans before the draft, getting into this conversation for a trade, not being able to pull the trigger because the GM won't allow you too, getting the deal yacked for a deal with a arch-rival, lying about it, then starting a mine's bigger then yours is contest with a pro-bowl QB? That frakking stupid. Working it so your boss appears to be a witless drunk, your GM impotent, your QB a whiner and everything else just to cover your ass? Inexecusable.

I posted early on that we needed Scott Piolli. We didn't get him.We needed the Goodmans. McDaniels got them fired, maybe so he could trade Cutler. We needed Jeremy Bates, but McDaniels shoved him out the door because he was a threat.

That's how we got here. What to do about it now? Tell the children to go play in the corner, and hand the organization over to grown ups is my answer.

TonyR
03-19-2009, 12:24 PM
...but apparently McDaniels basically cold called Nolan and asked him to be his DC even before he had the Broncos job, hence why Nolan was in place so quickly after the hire and why their assistant staff was such a rapid chain of hirings. They had it all sorted out in advance.


Which is also suggestive of a coach who came into this with more of a plan than a lot here like to give him credit for. As I keep saying, Belichik didn't put a guy this young in charge of his offense because he was incapable and stupid.

eddie mac
03-19-2009, 12:26 PM
How the hell can you have a Defensive Co-Ordinator telling a Head Coach what to do???

That's the stupidest suggestion made on here in a longtime bit like the retards happy for Cutler to run the franchise.

These people were appointed to these positions for a reason.

TonyR
03-19-2009, 12:29 PM
However, firing the Goodmans before the draft, getting into this conversation for a trade, not being able to pull the trigger because the GM won't allow you too, getting the deal yacked for a deal with a arch-rival, lying about it, then starting a mine's bigger then yours is contest with a pro-bowl QB?

To be fair...
1. We don't know for a fact that McD fired the Goodmans.
2. Getting into a conversation about a trade isn't a bad thing in and of itself.
3. We don't know that there was a trigger to pull. The conversations may have never gotten that serious or there may never have been a deal they liked. We also don't know for sure that Xanders "wouldn't allow" him to do a deal if there was one.

In other words, you're making some bold assumptions here.

lostknight
03-19-2009, 12:35 PM
To be fair...
1. We don't know for a fact that McD fired the Goodmans.
2. Getting into a conversation about a trade isn't a bad thing in and of itself.
3. We don't know that there was a trigger to pull. The conversations may have never gotten that serious or there may never have been a deal they liked. We also don't know for sure that Xanders "wouldn't allow" him to do a deal if there was one.

In other words, you're making some bold assumptions here.

1) Of course he did.

2) AS I noted in a different post, I agree completely. I would have been very tempted by Cassel and two firsts. However, a preponderance of the evidence is that McDaniels lied about how far the discussions went, and Xanders certainly did. If I were to lie about a employee of mine in a public space to make that employee look like a whiner and make it less attractive to competitors, I would be sued as a manager. McDaniel appears to have done that.

3) Working off of press coverage (which has more creditability then McDaniels late to the ball, and Bowlen's never talked to Jay comments) we do know that.

lostknight
03-19-2009, 12:36 PM
There are also things floating out there that are almost certainly lies told by the front office to protect themselves. Bus Cook "begging" for a trade for example.

UberBroncoMan
03-19-2009, 12:42 PM
Last time I checked Xanders was the GM. McDaniels is the HC. Was there a firing I missed or something???

Better still Nolan took a job under McDaniels working as D-Co-Ordinator.

Xanders is just a yes man to Josh. The only thing Xanders really does is the contract negotiations and probably some forms of front office management.

Broncos_OTM
03-19-2009, 12:50 PM
How the hell can you have a Defensive Co-Ordinator telling a Head Coach what to do???

That's the stupidest suggestion made on here in a longtime bit like the retards happy for Cutler to run the franchise.

These people were appointed to these positions for a reason.

about as stupid as a Head Coach Telling a GENERAL MANAGER what to do

Smiling Assassin27
03-19-2009, 12:52 PM
His handling of Smith is also a point of contention to most people in the bay area. When Norv Turner was the OC Alex Smith looked a whole lot better. The next year Turner went to SD the new SF OC was a doorknob Smith suffered tremendously and Nolan basically shut Smith out. I'd be inclined to leave Nolan to his current task.

a whole lot better is still not good enough. that pick was putrid.

BroncoBuff
03-19-2009, 12:59 PM
I posted early on that we needed Scott Piolli. We didn't get him. We needed the Goodmans. McDaniels got them fired, maybe so he could trade Cutler.
Now that is one GREAT piece of speculation ... and no more speculative than the pro-Josh people who state the ridiculous theory that Jay "wants out" because he's "whining about his contract." In fact less ridiculous, because we know Jay is NOT whining about his contract, at least hasn't done so publicly.

GREAT theory ... and not entirely implausible. Here's what we know:

There was a power play because the Goodmans were fired after Pat promised they were safe
Josh won, because he appears totally in charge now, even above Xanders
Josh did try to trade Cutler for Cassel, that's widely accepted now (almost universally accepted)
So I think we can reasonably conclude then, that the Jay trade talks might've been part of their disagreements


That is NOT a bad theory ... it's speculative, but these are some logiocal steps. What is the timeline here? I mean, what date did the Goodmans get canned VS. what date was Cassel finally traded?
.

BroncoBuff
03-19-2009, 01:03 PM
How the hell can you have a Defensive Co-Ordinator telling a Head Coach what to do???

That's the stupidest suggestion made on here in a longtime bit like the retards happy for Cutler to run the franchise.

These people were appointed to these positions for a reason.

"Cutler run the franchise"?! Hyperbole, thy name is Mac!

Why can't we just be the guys who think Jay is a once-in-a-generation quarterback who should be retained at almost any cost?
.

rugbythug
03-19-2009, 01:03 PM
Now that is one GREAT piece of speculation ... and no more speculative than the pro-Josh people who state the ridiculous theory that Jay "wants out" because he's "whining about his contract." In fact less ridiculous, because we know Jay is NOT whining about his contract, at least hasn't done so publicly.

GREAT theory ... and not entirely implausible. Here's what we know:

There was a power play because the Goodmans were fired after Pat promised they were safe
Josh won, because he appears totally in charge now, even above Xanders
Josh did try to trade Cutler for Cassel, that's widely accepted now (almost universally accepted)
So I think we can reasonably conclude then, that the Jay trade talks might've been part of their disagreements


That is NOT a bad theory ... it's speculative, but these are some logiocal steps. What is the timeline here? I mean, what date did the Goodmans get canned VS. what date was Cassel finally traded?
.

Buff there is also the whole Undead Al Angle to. You know where his minions have actually invented a chip that they put into both cutler and McD so that when the one talks it makes an Awful pain in the others head. It really is Genius. The problem is it requires and IQ of over 120 to work so it is useless on Rivers.

rugbythug
03-19-2009, 01:04 PM
"Cutler run the franchise"?! Hyperbole, thy name is Mac!

Why can't we just be the guys who think Jay is a once-in-a-generation quarterback who should be retained at almost any cost?
.

Quite with the Once in a Generation line. He is not even as good as Philip Rivers. And they are in the same Generation.

lex
03-19-2009, 01:13 PM
Quite with the Once in a Generation line. He is not even as good as Philip Rivers. And they are in the same Generation.


Rivers is one of the best QBs in the NFL, he played on a better team, and he's two years older.

eddie mac
03-19-2009, 01:14 PM
Xanders is just a yes man to Josh. The only thing Xanders really does is the contract negotiations and probably some forms of front office management.


If he's just a yes man why the need???

Isn't Bowlen already paying out well over $12m a year for other non-playing personnel no longer here and that includes the Goodman's who both leave with salaries intact for god knows how long.

Yet we hear the man is struggling financially.

In this day and age of NFL front office hardship I dont get the fact of paying someone GM money if they aren't performing GM duties.

Maybe some on here would like to think McDaniels calls the shots, that way it backs up all of your theories about poor little Jay C and how he's been abused by the Franchise that loved him 2 months ago.

Xanders is the GM and he vetoed the Cutler trade. That's a FACT.

WABronco
03-19-2009, 01:19 PM
Quite with the Once in a Generation line. He is not even as good as Philip Rivers. And they are in the same Generation.

Concurred. And it doesn't even hurt to say it.

I'm sure Jay is stewing over that very fact now, now that I think about it.

eddie mac
03-19-2009, 01:21 PM
"Cutler run the franchise"?! Hyperbole, thy name is Mac!

Why can't we just be the guys who think Jay is a once-in-a-generation quarterback who should be retained at almost any cost?
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There's a ways and means BB and it isn't by acting like he has, staying at home and getting his agent to demand a trade everytime someone takes his dummy.

And for the record BB I dont think he's a once in a generation QB. He's a good QB, could be a great QB but lets not forget how long he got in the pocket last year (protected by the best 2 team OT's in the league) and he still threw 20 plus picks. At times he's was excellent, at times he was downright awful, long way to go yet before he reaches elite status.

He'll be a 4 year vet next season. Time he started acting like it and got with McDaniels gameplan.

TonyR
03-19-2009, 01:35 PM
At times he's was excellent, at times he was downright awful, long way to go yet before he reaches elite status.


Yes, and some don't want to accept this fact. His QB ratings in the final 3, must-win-one games of the season were 74.3, 72.4, and 74.9. Consistent, below average, and not good enough. And if he didn't put up that awful 43.2 at home against the Raiders on Nov 23 it wouldn't even have mattered.

The point? "Once in a generation" QB's don't shiz the bed this bad for 3 straight games to close out an epic meltdown. Blame the defense. Blame the running game. Both are factors. But neither fully clears him of blame for the end of the year failure. Great talent, good QB. Shut up, come to work, and maybe Josh McD can help you get to great and make you a LOT more $.

Drek
03-19-2009, 03:30 PM
There are also things floating out there that are almost certainly lies told by the front office to protect themselves. Bus Cook "begging" for a trade for example.

So its lies told by the front office when its not pro-Cutler, but its solid fact when it is? (read: your entire post above this one.)

Now that is one GREAT piece of speculation ... and no more speculative than the pro-Josh people who state the ridiculous theory that Jay "wants out" because he's "whining about his contract." In fact less ridiculous, because we know Jay is NOT whining about his contract, at least hasn't done so publicly.

GREAT theory ... and not entirely implausible. Here's what we know:

There was a power play because the Goodmans were fired after Pat promised they were safe
Josh won, because he appears totally in charge now, even above Xanders
Josh did try to trade Cutler for Cassel, that's widely accepted now (almost universally accepted)
So I think we can reasonably conclude then, that the Jay trade talks might've been part of their disagreements


That is NOT a bad theory ... it's speculative, but these are some logiocal steps. What is the timeline here? I mean, what date did the Goodmans get canned VS. what date was Cassel finally traded?
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Buff, this is a story we've actually gotten some significant info on.

For starters, there wasn't a power play, just Bowlen wanting to actually name a GM. Jim Goodman didn't want it, the scouting department hated Jeff Goodman, and McDaniels and Xanders hit it off quickly. Jeff Goodman had also apparently made it clear that he wouldn't work well under Xanders as GM. End result? You fire the son and the father so that you don't put the father in a pickle, and you let them both keep their salaries.

And the only people who universally accept that McDaniels was actively looking to trade Cutler for Cassel at this point are those who've apparently sworn themselves over heart and soul to the Church of Cutler, because there isn't a lick of real evidence to support that.

barryr
03-19-2009, 03:35 PM
Good grief. Nolan isn't going to run personnel. Period.

lostknight
03-19-2009, 03:44 PM
For starters, there wasn't a power play, just Bowlen wanting to actually name a GM. Jim Goodman didn't want it, the scouting department hated Jeff Goodman, and McDaniels and Xanders hit it off quickly. Jeff Goodman had also apparently made it clear that he wouldn't work well under Xanders as GM. End result? You fire the son and the father so that you don't put the father in a pickle, and you let them both keep their salaries.


Source?