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Atlas
03-18-2009, 08:59 PM
This whole saga reminds me of what the Mane goes through on Presidential elections. SO I thought I would start a poll.


POLL TO FOLLOW

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2009, 09:03 PM
This whole saga reminds me of what the Mane goes through on Presidential elections. SO I thought I would start a poll.


POLL TO FOLLOW

Where's the choice for being a GDI?

spdirty
03-18-2009, 09:04 PM
well, so far, both idiots and Republicans favor Jay.

Atlas
03-18-2009, 09:05 PM
well, so far, both idiots and Republicans favor Jay.

LMAO!!!! I was about to say the same thing in reverse!! Hilarious!

Spider
03-18-2009, 09:11 PM
I have ot favor Josh .... when the name on the back of the uniform becomes bigger then the name on the front , you got serious problems .......

Atlas
03-18-2009, 09:17 PM
I have ot favor Josh .... when the name on the back of the uniform becomes bigger then the name on the front , you got serious problems .......

What does that have to do with anything? WHo do you favor in this situation? You favor Josh because he isn't a player?

Cutler is young and immatured but he is competitive and he is a winner. HE will WILL his team to victories. If Bowlen got onm the phone and called Cutler and told him he is their guy now. Tell him to come in and have a great year and I'll give you a contract extension next year. If Bowlen did that this would be over. Instead he is letting Little Hitler run things. I say, run things into the ground.

Spider
03-18-2009, 09:21 PM
What does that have to do with anything? WHo do you favor in this situation? You favor Josh because he isn't a player?

Cutler is young and immatured but he is competitive and he is a winner. HE will WILL his team to victories. If Bowlen got onm the phone and called Cutler and told him he is their guy now. Tell him to come in and have a great year and I'll give you a contract extension next year. If Bowlen did that this would be over. Instead he is letting Little Hitler run things. I say, run things into the ground.

It has everything to do with it ........... Elway never pulled this **** ...... Elway knew he wasnt bigger then the team

Atlas
03-18-2009, 09:31 PM
It has everything to do with it ........... Elway never pulled this **** ...... Elway knew he wasnt bigger then the team

Elway never had to. Reeves tried to trade John and Bowlen put a stop to it that instant! Than Bowlen ****canned Reeves over that and his drafting of Maddox.

That's before Bowlen has become Pussified.

Archer81
03-18-2009, 09:32 PM
Elway never had to. Reeves tried to trade John and Bowlen put a stop to it that instant! Than Bowlen ****canned Reeves over that and his drafting of Maddox.

That's before Bowlen has become Pussified.


That was after 3 superbowl appearances and several winning seasons...


:Broncos:

Atlas
03-18-2009, 09:36 PM
It has everything to do with it ........... Elway never pulled this **** ...... Elway knew he wasnt bigger then the team

I don't think Cutler was upset at the fat that the trade was mentionmed. I think he was upset that McDaniel had lied to him. They went through some meetings together telling JAy how good he is going to be and then right away in FA McDaniel pursues a trade with Tampa to get Cassell. That's BS. Now all Cutler has said if Josh admits that he DID try to trade Jay to Tampa Jay will come in. He just doesn't want to be lied to.

My dad use to say that you treat people like men, stand straight, look them in the eye and tell them the truth, they will act like Men. If you disresppect them, go around to their superiors and talk about them behind their backs and lie to them, well if that happenes you better be ready for a **** storm.

Atlas
03-18-2009, 09:37 PM
That was after 3 superbowl appearances and several winning seasons...


:Broncos:

I don't follow your point.

STBumpkin
03-18-2009, 09:37 PM
I'm Independent and favor the Broncos

Popps
03-18-2009, 09:37 PM
No independent voter choice?

Spider
03-18-2009, 09:39 PM
Elway never had to. Reeves tried to trade John and Bowlen put a stop to it that instant! Than Bowlen ****canned Reeves over that and his drafting of Maddox.

That's before Bowlen has become Pussified.

Naw , before then and the Elway watch .......then in 91 when rumors of Elway to the Bears ........Elway was part of the Reeves firing , but it had more to do with Reeves , Elway and Mike SHanahan .........

Archer81
03-18-2009, 09:40 PM
I don't follow your point.


You think if Elway had a 17-20 record, no playoff appearances and Reeves tried to trade him Bowlen would have stepped in to stop it?


:Broncos:

Atlas
03-18-2009, 09:40 PM
No independent voter choice?

Nope I wanted to see what diferences there were between Republicans and Democrats. Independent voters don't count. Popps go ahead and choose a side.

scttgrd
03-18-2009, 09:42 PM
That was after 3 superbowl appearances and several winning seasons...


:Broncos:

I believe Reeves was there for those too. So what has Josh done as a head coach?

Arkie
03-18-2009, 09:43 PM
What does that have to do with anything? WHo do you favor in this situation? You favor Josh because he isn't a player?

Cutler is young and immatured but he is competitive and he is a winner. HE will WILL his team to victories. If Bowlen got onm the phone and called Cutler and told him he is their guy now. Tell him to come in and have a great year and I'll give you a contract extension next year. If Bowlen did that this would be over. Instead he is letting Little Hitler run things. I say, run things into the ground.

Not if Cutler doesn't answer his phone.

Atlas
03-18-2009, 09:45 PM
You think if Elway had a 17-20 record, no playoff appearances and Reeves tried to trade him Bowlen would have stepped in to stop it?


:Broncos:

I don't know that doesn't really concern me. That was two different teams in two different eras. What I'm saying now Bowlen needs to put an end to this. Bring in Jay and tell Josh "You better make peace with him now, because he isn't going anywhere."

THat's what needs to get done.

Atlas
03-18-2009, 09:47 PM
Not if Cutler doesn't answer his phone.

He is answering his phone. In fact he has already said that he will attend all mandatory camps. Remember these camps are supposed to be VOLUNTARY. THey'll have plenty of time to talk if McFailure doesn't trade him for Brady Quinn of all people.

Archer81
03-18-2009, 09:51 PM
I don't know that doesn't really concern me. That was two different teams in two different eras. What I'm saying now Bowlen needs to put an end to this. Bring in Jay and tell Josh "You better make peace with him now, because he isn't going anywhere."

THat's what needs to get done.


I agree 100%. No agent, no owner. Get them together and let the bromance happen.


:Broncos:

SoCalBronco
03-18-2009, 10:00 PM
Republican and support Jay.

Bronco Bob
03-18-2009, 10:09 PM
Interesting that the Democrats support management
and the Republicans support a radical worker.

Archer81
03-18-2009, 10:14 PM
Interesting that the Democrats support management
and the Republicans support a radical worker.


Strange how that works.


:Broncos:

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 10:40 PM
Where is the Independent option? Well since I'm not too into the reinvented Socialist party (though F Bush for initial bailouts) and I like the government small, not running my life nor messing up the country more, I'll go Republican.

Interesting that the Democrats support management
and the Republicans support a radical worker.

I must say that's a really interesting observation.

Hallside
03-18-2009, 10:45 PM
I sort of thought about this and I hypothesized that left-leaners would tend to side with Jay and right-leaners with Josh. Based on these early results, that appears wrong.

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 10:50 PM
I sort of thought about this and I hypothesized that left-leaners would tend to side with Jay and right-leaners with Josh. Based on these early results, that appears wrong.

It would seem that way but Bronco Bob made a great point that essentially the left-leaners would side with a guy who wants to control absolutly everything and make everyone "equal" while the right-leaners would go with the independent worker who either wants his freedom from this system of "rule" (trade) or so be assured that he will be treated ethically along with being a part of a quality player/coach relationship (that has honesty) as initially promised by McDaniels when he was hired "elected."

I think this thread actually has made some amazing points.

Archer81
03-18-2009, 10:52 PM
It would seem that way but Bronco Bob made a great point that essentially the left-leaners would side with a guy who wants to control absolutly everything and make everyone "equal" while the right-leaners would go with the independent worker who either wants his freedom from this system of "rule" (trade) or so be assured that he will be treated ethically along with being a part of a quality player/coach relationship (that has honesty) as initially promised by McDaniels when he was hired "elected."

I think this thread actually has made some amazing points.



Yup.


:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 10:55 PM
VERY interesting ... so much of this is about Josh being a coach's kid, who played at a small college. I think he resents star players in general, ergo he doesn't think it matters whether he lied to Jay or whether he keeps Jay.

All this pollyanna "team first" nonsense sounds good at first, but as I've posted several times, it's an authoritative, unrealistic approach to the real world. And it reminds me of George W. Bush and his silly "you're either with us or against us" nonsense.

Good poll.
.

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 10:57 PM
I sort of thought about this and I hypothesized that left-leaners would tend to side with Jay and right-leaners with Josh. Based on these early results, that appears wrong.

Yeah, I thought that too ... but it dioes appear wrong ???

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 11:13 PM
Yeah, I thought that too ... but it dioes appear wrong ???

That's probably because thanks to Bush and the hounds of stupid Republicans (part of the reason I'm an Independent) ended up looking authoritative. In reality, the current administration is probably more-so. The truth is that the Democrats are obsessed with regulations, controlling the population, and having government in every instance of ones life. They want us to rely on them for our health care, our vehicles, loans, power etc etc, to the point we can't live without them. This reality was lost due to how Bush ran things and how a ton of Republicans ditched their conservative values to get votes, especially near the end. Point being the current leaders within the Democrat party are highly socialist and authoritarian while the Republicans I'm not sure about... they seem to have lost their roots and to an extent seem similar. Bush really f'ed up the perception of conservative values.

Bobby Jindal is a good example of what the Republicans or whatever party I'd vote for should be. Small government, actually has a budget surplus, high employment outside of the government, lets people keep more of the money that they work hard for, etc.

Government is a dismal failure when it comes to running things, and once you give it too much power we're all screwed.

As the saying goes "absolute power is corrupts and absolute corruption absolutly." This goes for both parties.

... but it also shows in the current situation with the Broncos.

Jay was given too much "power" as an individual to the point where he truly believed he was the organization. I think a superb QB is the most important part of the team, more than the coach. But it doesn't mean running away from problems. He should have gotten to work, dealt with the adversity, and shown why he's the face of the team. Josh on the other hand is young and he become overloaded with the power handed to him. How many young coaches have done well in their first HC gig??? Tomlin??? Shanahan Failed, Bilicheck failed etc. He wants to instill a mirror image of the Pats "equality" principals, but has tried to do it too fast, and without much compassion. That's why he's brought in Paxton etc, so as to indoctrinate the team much as Shanahan did when he brought Eddie and Romo to Denver from San Fran. The point is there was no true checks and balances and it starts with Bowlen's incompetence and lack of for a better word "balls" to fix the situation.

SureShot
03-18-2009, 11:20 PM
I sort of thought about this and I hypothesized that left-leaners would tend to side with Jay and right-leaners with Josh. Based on these early results, that appears wrong.

This

Play2win
03-18-2009, 11:21 PM
Party before Country, Player before Team... etc, etc, etc...

SoCalBronco
03-18-2009, 11:28 PM
Party before Country, Player before Team... etc, etc, etc...

This isn't a dispute between a player and a team. It is a dispute between two individuals. McDaniels does not represent the team.

But what would you know about loyalty to team, anyway?

Originally Posted by DS49
You have got me pegged all wrong. Major misjudgement.

I was a big CU Fan, I grew up about 5 blocks from CU. Hell, I saw Paul McCartney and The Who at Folsom field. I got so upset, no, really, I got embarrassed at being a CU fan because of how they have completely mis-managed that program. It started by the hiring of (who I cannot stand) Rick Nueheisel...

I have only watched USC for the last 3 to 4 years, and I love their team, the program and the way they go about doing business. I think Pete Carrol is great, and a real breath of fresh air.

I am a Bronco fan first and foremost. Over all sports. But its the Broncos fan in me that absolutely loves the USC football team since Pete Carrol has taken over. Their D is fun to watch, but I love the way they run their O. It reminds me of Denver's Superbowl years. (for a college team...)

I like the USC Trojans for the same reasons I love the Denver Broncos.

I would still be a CU fan, if they hadn't mess every thing up so much. I am really much more of a PRO football fan, and really the main reason I watch and follow college football is for the draft.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=599103&highlight=blocks#post599103

SureShot
03-18-2009, 11:31 PM
This isn't a dispute between a player and a team. It is a dispute between two individuals. McDaniels does not represent the team.

But what would you know about loyalty to team, anyway?

Originally Posted by DS49
You have got me pegged all wrong. Major misjudgement.

I was a big CU Fan, I grew up about 5 blocks from CU. Hell, I saw Paul McCartney and The Who at Folsom field. I got so upset, no, really, I got embarrassed at being a CU fan because of how they have completely mis-managed that program. It started by the hiring of (who I cannot stand) Rick Nueheisel...

I have only watched USC for the last 3 to 4 years, and I love their team, the program and the way they go about doing business. I think Pete Carrol is great, and a real breath of fresh air.

I am a Bronco fan first and foremost. Over all sports. But its the Broncos fan in me that absolutely loves the USC football team since Pete Carrol has taken over. Their D is fun to watch, but I love the way they run their O. It reminds me of Denver's Superbowl years. (for a college team...)

I like the USC Trojans for the same reasons I love the Denver Broncos.

I would still be a CU fan, if they hadn't mess every thing up so much. I am really much more of a PRO football fan, and really the main reason I watch and follow college football is for the draft.

The Search Function destroys.

penguintheory
03-18-2009, 11:33 PM
The bailout is just a sick investment in this economy. Sign me up for 6% guaranteed and early payback. You won't get that rate at your local credit union.

Dow's rallying, financials leading the way. Bring back the bulls.

OBF1
03-18-2009, 11:55 PM
not trying to cop out, But I am a registered independant..... So it is all Griese's fault

Play2win
03-18-2009, 11:59 PM
This isn't a dispute between...

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH... I'm a STALKER... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...

you take yourself way too seriously...


Why don't you try to take a cocacola in and have a smile and enjoy life... :)

Spider
03-19-2009, 12:21 AM
It would seem that way but Bronco Bob made a great point that essentially the left-leaners would side with a guy who wants to control absolutly everything and make everyone "equal" while the right-leaners would go with the independent worker who either wants his freedom from this system of "rule" (trade) or so be assured that he will be treated ethically along with being a part of a quality player/coach relationship (that has honesty) as initially promised by McDaniels when he was hired "elected."

I think this thread actually has made some amazing points.

yeah , and what it tells me is right wingers cant be trusted , Jay singed a contract , gave his word and accepted the money , now he wants to go back on the deal ......... interesting bull**** though about wanting to control someones life .. alot of horse**** , almost entertaining , but the bottom line is Jay signed a contract , now he doesnt intend to serve it out ...... and a right winger is ok with a " Radical Worker" reneging on his word ............. now that part is interesting

Spider
03-19-2009, 12:24 AM
I wonder if I can do business that way ?
Broker ......... Hey Spider , I got a 11 foot 11 inch wide , 13 foot 6 inch tall 97 foot long trailer I need to get from Erie Penn.To Sandy Utah . paying 5,300 $$
Spider .......... I accept ........
( get outside of Omaha Neb) I change my mind , I want 7,300 ..........

Spider
03-19-2009, 12:32 AM
Yeah, I thought that too ... but it dioes appear wrong ???

so when does a man giving his word and sticking to it matter ?

Spider
03-19-2009, 12:42 AM
crickets .........

UberBroncoMan
03-19-2009, 12:50 AM
yeah , and what it tells me is right wingers cant be trusted , Jay singed a contract , gave his word and accepted the money , now he wants to go back on the deal ......... interesting bull**** though about wanting to control someones life .. alot of horse**** , almost entertaining , but the bottom line is Jay signed a contract , now he doesnt intend to serve it out ...... and a right winger is ok with a " Radical Worker" reneging on his word ............. now that part is interesting

You probably should have later my following post before responding to that one. Also, I'm not wrong about controlling peoples lives. Once the government runs everything you need, the government runs your life. It's simple really. I happen to know a ton about governmental structure etc. The final class I took during my graduating semester was Public Policy and about democracy etc. Did tons of reading, case studies, foreign policy study etc. My professor was quite liberal too, but did his job to make sure everyone understood how things ran and what lead to what. The trend we're following that started with Bush and is continuing at an exponential rate with Obama will lead to this. You'd have to be ignorant and blind to think that a giant government that provides the people most of the major necessities of life would not be controlling the population as well. Limits to free speech with attempts to implement the fairness doctrine, growing gun control through sneaky laws/regulations etc... essentially the destruction of our Constitution. Again if you read my following post you'd see that I actually hammered Jay Cutler for not reporting to work. Also declaring Jay a radical worker while not also acknowledging Josh as a radical leader is foolish. Josh is implementing a completely foreign policy to a team culture that's never had anything like it. Both are at fault. So basically what you wrote was without merit.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"

Spider
03-19-2009, 12:54 AM
You probably should have later my following post before responding to that one. Also, I'm not wrong about controlling peoples lives. Once the government runs everything you need, the government runs your life. It's simple really. I happen to know a ton about governmental structure etc. The final class I took during my graduating semester was Public Policy and about democracy etc. Did tons of reading, case studies, foreign policy study etc. The trend we're following that started with Bush and is continuing at an exponential rate with Obama will lead to this. You'd have to be ignorant and blind to think that a giant government that provides the people most of the major necessities of life would not be controlling the population as well. Limits to free speech with attempts to implement the fairness doctrine, growing gun control through sneaky laws/regulations etc... essentially the destruction of our Constitution. Again if you read my following post you'd see that I actually hammered Jay Cutler for not reporting to work. So basically what you wrote was without merit.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"

See this is part of the problem , all you laid out was excuses .......... If Jay didnt want is life controlled , he shouldnt have signed the contract ...... Naw a long winded post doesnt get the Bull off the Ice ........ Jay signed the contract , he took the money , and this is what it is all about , so by supporting him , you are saying ....Go ahead go back on your word , it is ok .............In the end all you have is your name , if your word isnt good , then you dont have much left...... But I do have to say thats an interesting fantasy you got going .......... No Gay Marriage , Abortion , yeah Reps are not into controlling peoples lives : Rofl:

Spider
03-19-2009, 12:58 AM
I do find it funny though that you find away to use Government and Obama to justify the supporting of a guy breaking his word .........Just wow ...... But Uber Bronco man , you will find out I have very little use for a man that will put a party before country .....

Spider
03-19-2009, 01:04 AM
I read your second part .Uber ...all you are doing is making excuses , the Broncos have kept their word , Shannny had control , now McD does , same ole same ,meet the new Boss same as the old Boss it shouldnt matter to Cutler either way , Bowlens money is still good no matter who coaches , Cutler wasnt given no power , just alot of Hype , same ole same there , so far nothing Justifies Cutler going back on his word ......And since when is it ok to pamper someone ? Cutlers got a job to do like everyone else , he screws up he should hear about it like everyone else ..........

UberBroncoMan
03-19-2009, 01:07 AM
I'm an Independent, Spider. I never said I thought we should control all lives etc. Thought I'd rather chose the lesser of two evils and see the government regulate gay's getting married over controlling who my doctor is, how much I can drive, where my energy is from, taking more of my money to fund ridiculous earmarks and government expansion etc.

In fact I'm for Stem Cell Research and I'm fine with civil unions... abortions is a touchy subject. But don't talk about party before country stuff when you've clearly shown a biased point of view. As it currently stands MY beliefs are not exemplified by either party, as I said Bobby Jindal is the closest one to them. As I clearly stated, Bush f'ed up and Obama is making it worse. Both are from different parties. Both parties are a a pathetic disgrace in my opinion.

I am for my country first, and I would like a government that doesn't rule the people. "We The People" are who should be in charge, through selfless representatives, not the corrupt mess that's in D.C. right now and has been there for some time.

Again, re-read what I wrote pertaining to Jay and Josh. I'm aware he signed a contract, and once again I stated that he needed to report. You're just running off on a tangent about the contract even though I never mentioned anything about it. You can search pasts posts too if you'd like. I actually said Jay should get the same beef as everyone else. There is no "special treatment" in the NFL.

"In the end all you have is your name , if your word isnt good , then you dont have much left." I agree with that. But in light of that you should also understand that there isn't just ONE liar in this ordeal. Both sides have done this.

~Crash~
03-19-2009, 01:09 AM
crickets .........

OK spider you say honer contracts really sounds great .so you are say teams now have to keep players thought there contracts right ?Hilarious!

~Crash~
03-19-2009, 01:11 AM
it is fine for teams to dump player right ?

~Crash~
03-19-2009, 01:11 AM
they have contracts right?

Spider
03-19-2009, 01:15 AM
I'm an Independent, Spider. I never said I thought we should control all lives etc. Thought I'd rather chose the lesser of two evils and see the government regulate gay's getting married over controlling who my doctor is, how much I can drive, where my energy is from, taking more of my money to fund ridiculous earmarks and government expansion etc. your doctor is controlled now by insurance companies , or havent you gotten that far yet ? I got told how much to drive more in Red states then Blue states ..... odd isnt it

In fact I'm for Stem Cell Research and I'm fine with civil unions... what in the **** is it to you if they get married or not ? if you dont like Gay Marriage , then dont enter into one ...... abortions is a touchy subject.then dont have one But don't talk about party before country stuff when you've clearly shown a biased point of view. you ****ing retard , most here thought I was a right winger when I was supporting Bush ...... As it currently stands MY beliefs are not exemplified by either party, as I said Bobby Jindal is the closest one to them. As I clearly stated, Bush f'ed up and Obama is making it worse. Both are from different parties. Both parties are a a pathetic disgrace in my opinion. and you support a guy going back on his word .......So your opinion . meh ........

I am for my country first, and I would like a government that doesn't rule the people. "We The People" are who should be in charge, through selfless representatives, not the corrupt mess that's in D.C. right now. sure thing ..

Again, re-read what I wrote pertaining to Jay and Josh. I'm aware he signed a contract, and once again I stated that he needed to report. You're just running off on a tangent about the contract even though I never mentioned anything about it. You can search pasts posts too if you'd like. I actually said Jay should get the same beef as everyone else. There is no "special treatment" in the NFL. I did reread it , that bull**** might be special to you , but Ihavent seen one thing that would justify Cutler going back on his word

"In the end all you have is your name , if your word isnt good , then you dont have much left." I agree with that. But in light of that you should also understand that there isn't just ONE liar in this ordeal. Both sides have done this. Show me where Denver broke the contract or went back on their word ........... you cant

Spider
03-19-2009, 01:18 AM
OK spider you say honer contracts really sounds great .so you are say teams now have to keep players thought there contracts right ?Hilarious!
and is there a no trade deal in their contract ? or you just lipping off cause you dont know any better ?

Hulamau
03-19-2009, 01:18 AM
I don't think Cutler was upset at the fat that the trade was mentionmed. I think he was upset that McDaniel had lied to him. They went through some meetings together telling JAy how good he is going to be and then right away in FA McDaniel pursues a trade with Tampa to get Cassell. That's BS. Now all Cutler has said if Josh admits that he DID try to trade Jay to Tampa Jay will come in. He just doesn't want to be lied to.

My dad use to say that you treat people like men, stand straight, look them in the eye and tell them the truth, they will act like Men. If you disresppect them, go around to their superiors and talk about them behind their backs and lie to them, well if that happenes you better be ready for a **** storm.

What your dad said is good advice Atlas, but at this point there is ZERO evidence of any sort that McD lied to Cutler and at least direct to the press, not through hearsay, on the record testimony and evidence backed by the support of the entire FO, that he DID not lie.

Until there is one shred of objective valid evidence presented by the 'JayisCooked' disinformation machine here, which unfortunately approximately half of you guys and gals are unwittingly loyal members of, then all such arguments are purely the weakest kind of speculation that does nothing to add to clarity and veracity in this situation and everything to to with furthering the kind of discord and pressure within the fan base on Bowlen McD and all, and further inflame Jay's sanctimonious Victim-hood charade that will best serve Cooks desire to Ship Jay out of town!

The more Jay feels justified in following through with his charade which started as mostly bluff to get a new contract here, by reading idiot press reports from a few of the moron ex-jocks out there who are supporting the Cook storyline, as well as established message boards like OM where he still feels a lot of support for his bluff, the more likely Jay is to feel emboldened that he is in the right and will be well received wherever else he goes, and maybe will at least remain a martyr to many of his Bronco fans as well, once he successfully sets back the franchise a couple years and splits out of town in his selfish, cry baby pursuits.

A united front of not tolerating this crap is PRECISELY the kind of message a budding baby narcissist like Jay needs to hear, for his own good long term as a human being, not even speaking of football. That would swing the pressure back onto Jay to come around and not blow his career once he can start directly feeling Bus Cook's Titan and Green Bay re-run strategy starting to backfire on him.

Bottom line, you suckers out here still sucking on Jay's Sob-song about hurt feelings, just keep it up and you'll be doing all you possibly can to help insure Cutler is railroaded out of town ASAP!

My fondest hope if for Jay to get his head out of his A** and get back in here dedicated to win and sort this crap out like a man, not a manipulative whiner!

You really want him to stay too, then quit licking his balls!

UberBroncoMan
03-19-2009, 01:32 AM
your doctor is controlled now by insurance companies , or havent you gotten that far yet ? I got told how much to drive more in Red states then Blue states ..... odd isnt it

what in the **** is it to you if they get married or not ? if you dont like Gay Marriage , then dont enter into one ......then dont have one you ****ing retard , most here thought I was a right winger when I was supporting Bush ...... and you support a guy going back on his word .......So your opinion . meh ........

sure thing ..

I did reread it , that bull**** might be special to you , but Ihavent seen one thing that would justify Cutler going back on his word

Show me where Denver broke the contract or went back on their word ........... you cant


You've proven to be too thickheaded and emotional to carry on a logical conversation. You even attack me on stuff I've never said.

penguintheory
03-19-2009, 02:12 AM
The truth is that the Democrats are obsessed with regulations, controlling the population, and having government in every instance of ones life. They want us to rely on them for our health care, our vehicles, loans, power etc etc, to the point we can't live without them.

So I take it you attended a private university to study public policy, in order to avoid the government's role in your life...

The government's role is to provide a backstop: a basic minimum standard of living for those who cannot fend for themselves in your only-the-strong survive societal model. You may be intelligent, talented, and born well enough to thrive in our society without the government's help, but not everyone is. They also have a right to live, and live well. I'm not pimping welfare checks here, but societal Darwinism is just plain draconian in the 21st century. You care about country? Then you should care about your fellow citizens who can exercise their option to rely on the government for the services you mentioned above, or have nothing at all.

Contribute to the system which facilitated your success, so that others and their children may eventually be positioned to follow suit.

Spider
03-19-2009, 03:26 AM
You've proven to be too thickheaded and emotional to carry on a logical conversation. You even attack me on stuff I've never said.

I know your type , Besides I dont compromise my beliefs . you are the one that Label Cutler a renegade worker , when in reality he is reigning ........... and you honored that , dont blame me for you going off half cocked and not thinking .........

Kaylore
03-19-2009, 08:35 AM
All this poll shows is there are more democrats on this site right now. Ha!

Hallside
03-19-2009, 09:10 AM
It would seem that way but Bronco Bob made a great point that essentially the left-leaners would side with a guy who wants to control absolutly everything and make everyone "equal" while the right-leaners would go with the independent worker who either wants his freedom from this system of "rule" (trade) or so be assured that he will be treated ethically along with being a part of a quality player/coach relationship (that has honesty) as initially promised by McDaniels when he was hired "elected."

I think this thread actually has made some amazing points.


As a right-leaning Josh supporter, I'll actually blame an overdeveloped sense of loyalty among conservatives for the misguided sustained Jay Cutler support among my brethren.

Of course, these poll results are not scientific and the sample is small, so there's a very good chance that there's no trend here at all.

Atlas
03-19-2009, 09:22 AM
Republican and support Jay.

That is surprising. I thought it would be the other way around. Demcrats are for big business I guess.

Republicans support Jay 21-5. That's pretty telling.

DrFate
03-19-2009, 09:26 AM
It has everything to do with it ........... Elway never pulled this **** ...... Elway knew he wasnt bigger then the team

I'm *pretty* sure Elway pulled this **** before he ever signed a contract. I'm also pretty sure that's the only reason he ever played in Denver.

(I'm not knocking The Duke - you don't do that. But it is a bit disingenuous to say Elway didn't do this. I realize Elway wasn't under contract and that might be a difference in some minds)

DrFate
03-19-2009, 09:28 AM
The government's role is to provide a backstop: a basic minimum standard of living for those who cannot fend for themselves in your only-the-strong survive societal model.

I'm pretty sure that the above has nothing to do with government, at least not the one defined by the US Constitution.

And I'm 100% sure the above and this post are off-topic AND in the wrong forum.

And now back to Cutler VS McDaniels!

Atlas
03-19-2009, 09:29 AM
they have contracts right?

They do have contracts. Contracts that AT ANY TIME the coach can terminate for any reason they see fit. Funny how that works.

Atlas
03-19-2009, 09:32 AM
What your dad said is good advice Atlas, but at this point there is ZERO evidence of any sort that McD lied to Cutler and at least direct to the press, not through hearsay, on the record testimony and evidence backed by the support of the entire FO, that he DID not lie.
!

There is evidence. Just a few days ago McFailure told Peter King that Denver WAS LATE to the trade talks with NE about Cassel. So not only is he lying about not pursuing Cassel he ****ed the whole thing up by not being on the ball to get him.

Dagmar
03-19-2009, 09:33 AM
All this poll shows is there are more democrats on this site right now. Ha!
31 - 28, it's not a huuuge margin!

DrFate
03-19-2009, 09:34 AM
There is evidence. Just a few days ago McFailure told Peter King that Denver WAS LATE to the trade talks with NE about Cassel. So not only is he lying about not pursuing Cassel he ****ed the whole thing up by not being on the ball to get him.

There actually is a good amount of evidence. Just not all people arrive at the same conclusion when presented with the same evidence.

Atlas
03-19-2009, 09:34 AM
Here is a great article by Woody.

QB's beef not bread-fed
Cries for Cutler to clam up, count dough overlook root of upheaval

By Woody Paige
The Denver Post
Posted: 03/19/2009 12:30:00 AM MDT
Updated: 03/19/2009 01:00:54 AM MDT

Attention, Kmart shoppers. Let's address the Josh McDaniels-Jay Cutler matter, because I've gotten thousands of e-mails and comments on it, and it's the biggest story in Denver. Let me just take care of it right here and deal with some of the issues brought up by readers.

I get these he's-a-poor-whining-crybaby statements and questions. "He should shut up. He makes a lot of money."

I have a real problem here. I've had two jobs in my life from which I tried to walk away because I didn't want to work for my boss. It had nothing to do with money. It had to do with how we are treated, or even how we perceive we are treated.

Let's say you have a job that pays $25,000, and your boss wants to send you to Detroit to worse working conditions, and your boss lied to you, and his bosses aren't on your side, and you know the boss will continue to try to get rid of you. Are you a whining baby or a human being? What if someone who makes $12,000 says: "You make a lot of money. Shut up and take it." What would be your response?

I once told someone close to me I was quitting a very lucrative position -- not with my current employers -- because I was being disrespected, lied to and was not allowed to do what was in my (contractual) agreement, and they wanted to get rid of me, and I was miserable. "What about a man who has a family? He couldn't do that."

I was supporting three people at the time, and they were important to me, and I was determined I would find another job somewhere,

The Patriot Way is alive and well here alongside the Rocky Mountains. If that weren't already obvious with new coach Josh McDaniels, left, having signed three former Patriots since free agency started, it is clear in the way the new coach is handling his feud with quarterback Jay Cutler, right. somehow, and borrow money, or do whatever was necessary to get out of that situation. It doesn't matter whether you make $1 million or $1. We want to be respected, loved even, but we don't want to be lied to. So don't give me that garbage about how Cutler is whining, and he should shut up and play quarterback where he has been disrespected, lied to and lost two bosses that liked him, and where he obviously was unwanted.
So, blame it on Cutler if you want. But McDaniels said he had no intention of trading Cutler. Yet, he told a national columnist a few days ago, and I quote, "We were late to the dance." He was trying to get Matt Cassel. Maybe Cassel would be better for him, but he should have been honest with Cutler at that moment, right after Cutler was in town studying the new playbook, but he has that New England Patriots attitude.

I don't think either should go. McDaniels, the GM (whoever he is) and Pat Bowlen should have gotten on a plane, gone to Nashville, Tenn., and groveled. Bowlen said a few weeks ago, and I quote, "Obviously he (Cutler) is the man around here." Suddenly, he no longer is "the man," he's not any kind of man to the Broncos' new regime.

Cutler probably should give in, as another quarterback has told me, and realize it's a business. Well, no business should treat the employees that way. Some people just want to throw Cutler to Detroit for revenge. Many others say get rid of him, and don't even care if the Broncos get a quarterback in return.

Woody Paige
Speak up by sending your sports-related question to Woody's Mailbag.
Browse the archive of videos in Woody's World.
Read Woody Paige's most recent column.
Has anybody examined Chris Simms' background in Tampa Bay? I haven't heard anyone here call him a whining crybaby. I will have some information on his situation with the Bucs after he lost his spleen and how he was treated in my column on Sunday.
What about Bowlen? Totally messed this up.

Bus Cook, the gnarly agent for Cutler. Totally messed this up.

All four (and, I suppose, the general manager) have handled the entire matter so poorly, and it's easy to say a pox on all their houses. But work it out. Stop being the man who has the biggest ego. This country has battled other countries, and, in the end, you do what's best for everybody. John Kennedy demanded that the Soviet Union back down. What he also did quietly was agree to take the missiles and troops out of Turkey. Compromise. The Broncos don't need this. Their fans don't want this. Nobody can be happy.

Except somewhere, Mike Shanahan is smiling.

Kaylore
03-19-2009, 09:58 AM
They do have contracts. Contracts that AT ANY TIME the coach can terminate for any reason they see fit. Funny how that works.

They also have signing bonuses that they get to keep no matter how good or bad they play.

Spider
03-19-2009, 10:02 AM
I'm *pretty* sure Elway pulled this **** before he ever signed a contract. I'm also pretty sure that's the only reason he ever played in Denver.

(I'm not knocking The Duke - you don't do that. But it is a bit disingenuous to say Elway didn't do this. I realize Elway wasn't under contract and that might be a difference in some minds)

What the Duke did was tell the colts to take a hike , Elway didnt sign a contract , didnt say he would play for the Colts , then Change his mind ....Elway was up front . gotta respect that , and I was not a huge Elway fan .....

Arkie
03-19-2009, 10:51 AM
I'm anti-socialist, pro-individual, pro-states rights when it comes to government, but I do a complete 180 on the Broncos where I take an anti-individual, socialisitic approach where everybody is equal, nobody can be above the team.

DrFate
03-19-2009, 11:02 AM
What the Duke did was tell the colts to take a hike , Elway didnt sign a contract , didnt say he would play for the Colts , then Change his mind ....Elway was up front . gotta respect that , and I was not a huge Elway fan .....

That's your take, 20 years after the fact, and that's fine. I'm just saying people were calling him ever adjective that Cutler is hearing now. So I wouldn't say that a young Elway was an angel on this issue.

Spider
03-19-2009, 11:08 AM
That's your take, 20 years after the fact, and that's fine. I'm just saying people were calling him ever adjective that Cutler is hearing now. So I wouldn't say that a young Elway was an angel on this issue.

Thats exactly what happened , ELway never signed with the Colts .......... in fact Elway was going to go pitch for the Yankees , Pete Rozell was not going ot let Elway walk away from the NFL , it came down to 2 teams that was getting Elway , Broncos , and the Raiders , We got Elway cause of Rozells hatred for Al Davis .......anyone tells you different is a ****ing liar

DrFate
03-19-2009, 11:11 AM
Thats exactly what happened , ELway never signed with the Colts .......... in fact Elway was going to go pitch for the Yankees , Pete Rozell was not going ot let Elway walk away from the NFL , it came down to 2 teams that was getting Elway , Broncos , and the Raiders , We got Elway cause of Rozells hatred for Al Davis .......anyone tells you different is a ****ing liar

I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that when that went down fans/media called Elway a brat and an egomaniac and a non-team guy and whatever.

gyldenlove
03-19-2009, 11:21 AM
I am a non-voter and I am favour boobs.

Spider
03-19-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that when that went down fans/media called Elway a brat and an egomaniac and a non-team guy and whatever.

oh ...... okay ....... My bad ;D

SportinOne
03-19-2009, 11:30 AM
I would just like to clarify that, while i voted for Obama, I don't consider myself a "democrat" and will always vote for who i think to be the better candidate.

For the sake of this poll, though, i will mark "dem" because that is who i last voted for.

Tombstone RJ
03-19-2009, 11:36 AM
No independent voter choice?

That's what a GDI is, or Gosh Darn Independent.

SportinOne
03-19-2009, 11:42 AM
I'm anti-socialist, pro-individual, pro-states rights when it comes to government, but I do a complete 180 on the Broncos where I take an anti-individual, socialisitic approach where everybody is equal, nobody can be above the team.

So you are saying you want others to live in an environment where they are all equal as long as it benefits you, the fan, but would never want to live in an environment like that yourself?

Okay, so i kid, but really this is apples and oranges. The way you speak of "equal" in the real world refers to money, basically. But the way you speak of equal in the NFL is something much more abstract. If you are really talking about money in both instances, then the NFL is unequal as well. And no one is really on the same level. But you are talking about privileges and egos in the NFL, something that, in the real world, is largely based on money, but in the NFL is based on talent.. usually.

Spider
03-19-2009, 11:51 AM
I would just like to clarify that, while i voted for Obama, I don't consider myself a "democrat" and will always vote for who i think to be the better candidate.

For the sake of this poll, though, i will mark "dem" because that is who i last voted for.

Probably more along the lines of me , a Blue dog , AKA JFK type of Dem ...........
basically ask not what your country can do for you , but what you can do for your country ......

Atlas
03-19-2009, 06:41 PM
Thats exactly what happened , ELway never signed with the Colts .......... in fact Elway was going to go pitch for the Yankees , Pete Rozell was not going ot let Elway walk away from the NFL , it came down to 2 teams that was getting Elway , Broncos , and the Raiders , We got Elway cause of Rozells hatred for Al Davis .......anyone tells you different is a ****ing liar


Not to ruin a great story but Uh, Elway played left field

Atlas
03-19-2009, 06:43 PM
Republicans 25-10 for Jay

Democrats 23-15 for Josh


Too me that is stunning. I'm disappointed by my fellow Dems, but I see hope for the Republicans!!

broncosteven
03-19-2009, 06:48 PM
No independent voter choice?

I want a Ralph Nader option.

Spider
03-19-2009, 06:50 PM
Not to ruin a great story but Uh, Elway played left field

No he played right field ,, but hit with power from the left . but that doesnt mean he didnt want to pitch ........Elway was drafted in 1981 to a Yankee farm team ........

Man-Goblin
03-19-2009, 06:51 PM
Look at that sweet, sweet bell curve. Niiiiiice.

As a guy with a degree in poly sci, I'm kinda surprised at the results.

spdirty
03-19-2009, 07:16 PM
Figured thats how it would play out. Most of the common sense folk who realize what a talent we have in Cutler, and realize he was lied to, and realize he has every right to be upset, especially when he has leverage. And they dont want to see the organization get set back ten years, while the idiot crowd is blinded and jealous of how much he makes in the first place, think he is nothing but a lucky punk, one of the "winners of lifes lottery," and dont care what trading the "spoiled little rich boy" does to the organization. In fact, "send his ass to Detroit!" is their attitude, because he had the audacity to call our "agent of change" out on his lying bull****, so he needs to be punished. Much like the rich need to be punished.

JMO :)

Rock Chalk
03-19-2009, 08:46 PM
As of this post, 40 republicans, 39 democrats. Yet Obama won election. ****ing traitors.

37 favor Josh
42 favor Jay

I think whatever your theory was is a bad one.

Rock Chalk
03-19-2009, 08:47 PM
Figured thats how it would play out. Most of the common sense folk who realize what a talent we have in Cutler, and realize he was lied to, and realize he has every right to be upset, especially when he has leverage. And they dont want to see the organization get set back ten years, while the idiot crowd is blinded and jealous of how much he makes in the first place, think he is nothing but a lucky punk, one of the "winners of lifes lottery," and dont care what trading the "spoiled little rich boy" does to the organization. In fact, "send his ass to Detroit!" is their attitude, because he had the audacity to call our "agent of change" out on his lying bull****, so he needs to be punished. Much like the rich need to be punished.

JMO :)

Haha, this whole thing is hilarious. Post it again!

Atlas
03-19-2009, 09:10 PM
As of this post, 40 republicans, 39 democrats. Yet Obama won election. ****ing traitors.

37 favor Josh
42 favor Jay

I think whatever your theory was is a bad one.

My original theory was that there would be more jay supporters, but he would be carried to victory by the Democrats, not the Republicans. Well, it's nice we can compromise on something as important as this is.

gunns
03-19-2009, 09:22 PM
I have ot favor Josh .... when the name on the back of the uniform becomes bigger then the name on the front , you got serious problems .......

Where's the Independent vote? I don't favor either and when the name on the uniform or the coach become bigger than the team or shall I say Broncos as a whole, you got serious problems.....and we do. I thought thats what we were eliminating when we got rid of Shanahan. Unfortunately a whole new can of worms was opened.

Rock Chalk
03-19-2009, 09:32 PM
My original theory was that there would be more jay supporters, but he would be carried to victory by the Democrats, not the Republicans. Well, it's nice we can compromise on something as important as this is.

So your theory sucks as there were more Republican jay supporters than Democrat Jay supporters.

And I know this is a longer term deal but I will bet you 100 dollars that Cutler doesnt even sniff the HoF. Never.

Arkie
03-19-2009, 09:41 PM
It's time for a revolution, but as long as we're here, I'm for Josh. Jay represents all that's pink in the world.

Spider
03-19-2009, 09:43 PM
I have tried to get passionate about this debate , I cant , I dont like either one of them right now .... But a contract is a contract .......

Arkie
03-19-2009, 09:50 PM
So you are saying you want others to live in an environment where they are all equal as long as it benefits you, the fan, but would never want to live in an environment like that yourself?

Okay, so i kid, but really this is apples and oranges. The way you speak of "equal" in the real world refers to money, basically. But the way you speak of equal in the NFL is something much more abstract. If you are really talking about money in both instances, then the NFL is unequal as well. And no one is really on the same level. But you are talking about privileges and egos in the NFL, something that, in the real world, is largely based on money, but in the NFL is based on talent.. usually.

apples and oranges, I would run my football team like my military in defense. No "I" in team.

Broncojef
03-19-2009, 10:00 PM
I have tried to get passionate about this debate , I cant , I dont like either one of them right now .... But a contract is a contract .......

You are scaring me tonight Spider. I'm probably one of the most conservative people on this board and this is the second thread tonight that I feel the exact same way you do. Cutler should shut-up and play football, the Broncos logo is way bigger to me than Cutler's.

Spider
03-19-2009, 10:02 PM
You are scaring me tonight Spider. I'm probably one of the most conservative people on this board and this is the second thread I feel the exact same way you do. Cutler should shut-up and play football, the Broncos logo is way bigger to me than Cutler's.

LOL you know for a right wing nut job , you are almost an ok guy ;D
but yeah Cutler got to understand he is a Player , A good one , but he doesnt run things around the office

Spider
03-19-2009, 10:07 PM
it is like this , I accepted a run for tomorrow , it totally sucks , 2 of other drivers didnt want no part of it ,I didnt know what it was so I accepted it , I have to drag a 4 axle 10 foot wide , 58 foot long trailer , Down to good springs PA , and pick up a D11 Bull Dozer U blade,With the arms ........ I told the man I would do the job , so despite how hard it will be , I am still going to do it for the price , I didnt jack up the price , nor will I come up with an excuse to get out of it ..........Job has to be done , I might as well be the one to do it , Besides I am the best driver we got here now, might as well be me going after it ;D

Spider
03-19-2009, 10:12 PM
24tires on the ground . lot of rubber . 3 turns I am really regretting tomorrow ,Left turn coming off of Union street on to Main street in Old Forge PA ,Thats a tight turn for a reg tandem then a right turn off of main onto Davis street , then going up to the coal mine off of the good springs road , that sucker is a hard left turn

Atlas
03-19-2009, 10:17 PM
apples and oranges, I would run my football team like my military in defense. No "I" in team.


In the same vain you wouldn't lie and backstab the players. You look them into the eye and you lay out the facts and tell them the truth.

Donk
03-19-2009, 10:18 PM
crickets .........

How long would you work for some one who lied to you.

How about if when you got out of town a few miles you found out the boss wanted a driver finish the run for you.

The way you change jobs..... you're talking about loyalty!

Spider
03-19-2009, 10:21 PM
How long would you work for some one who lied to you.

How about if when you got out of town a few miles you found out the boss wanted a driver finish the run for you.

The way you change jobs..... you're talking about loyalty!

LOL I get lied to every ****ing day , Dispatchers ... dont even get me started , but then on the same hand , I lie in my log book , I lie to the Highway patrol , I lie to DOT ........... what you dont lie ? And the way I change Jobs ? I dont sign contracts with my employers , we both me and the company understand it is a TRAIL. period , a probation time ........... So now what ?

Spider
03-19-2009, 10:22 PM
Yeah .... so now what Junior ?

Spider
03-19-2009, 10:26 PM
There are trucking companies that give you a sign on Bonus , if you stay so long you get X Amount of dollars , I stay the hell away from those companies ....what if I dont like em ? If I sign on then I am stuck there , then my Job Performance goes down , do I need to show you pictures of what can happen if I dont bring my A game everytime I get behind the wheel ?
When I hire on I am very up front about my intentions , hey if I dont like you I am gone ........

Donk
03-19-2009, 10:32 PM
Yeah .... so now what Junior ?

Football players have to sign a contract before they can go to work.
The owner can end the contract at any time.

Who are you calling Junior...Junior. I have driven almost as far going to and coming home from work as you have working.

Spider
03-19-2009, 10:40 PM
Football players have to sign a contract before they can go to work.
The owner can end the contract at any time. thats not my problem now is it

Who are you calling Junior...Junior. I have driven almost as far going to and coming home from work as you have working.

Pedal cars dont count Junior .....and you are a freaking Idiot if you think you can match 2,800 to 3,200 Miles per week for 22 years .Junior

Donk
03-19-2009, 10:51 PM
thats not my problem now is it



Pedal cars dont count Junior .....and you are a freaking Idiot if you think you can match 2,800 to 3,200 Miles per week for 22 years .Junior

I said almost and I had 52 years to do it.

So what if your truck is a little bigger. Junior

Spider
03-19-2009, 11:11 PM
I said almost and I had 52 years to do it.

So what if your truck is a little bigger. Junior

Bigger truck = More Miles Kiddo , but if you are old , then take out your reading glasses dip **** and show me where I said anything about loyalty .........Meh never mind , no need to confuse you any more then what you already are

Needa Pass Rush
03-19-2009, 11:36 PM
I'm conservative and favor AlphaOmega. :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Atlas
03-20-2009, 09:59 AM
So your theory sucks as there were more Republican jay supporters than Democrat Jay supporters.

And I know this is a longer term deal but I will bet you 100 dollars that Cutler doesnt even sniff the HoF. Never.

It appears my theory was wrong.

Jay supporters are 53 Josh 45.

I said last year that Jay would go to the HOF as long as he played under Shanny. Of course all that has changed, but Jay has all the tools to succeed it all depends if he lands in the right situation. I also believe that Denver might not be the best situation for him. I think McFailure has set back this franchise a few years.

Like I have stated I think if he goes to Detroit they will have a better record than Denver and they will also have a more explosive offense. Hell, their defense is even a little better than Denver's.