PDA

View Full Version : Bowlen and Bus sound off


no-pseudo-fan
03-18-2009, 03:16 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f54761&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Before Jay Cutler and Josh McDaniels entered their swamp of contentious confusion, the groundwork for a muddled fallout between the quarterback and the Denver Broncos had roots in the days following team owner Pat Bowlen's Dec. 30 firing of coach Mike Shanahan.

Bus Cook, Cutler's agent, said on Monday morning: "Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

"If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."
-- Broncos owner Pat BowlenBowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

Little wonder Cutler and the Broncos are in total bewilderment.

This thing began unraveling quicker than most knew.

It is clear that Cutler bought into the coaching of Shanahan, and even more so, that of his former offensive coordinator, Jeremy Bates, who is now at USC. It appears Cutler believed keeping Bates aboard was the best of a rocky situation.

But on Jan. 12, Bowlen, as is his absolute right, hired former New England Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. McDaniels, as his absolute right, wanted to run his own offense with his own hand-picked offensive assistants.

Cutler's attitude at that point was, well, you might as well get rid of me, too.

"But I never requested a trade for Jay then," Cook said. "That is simply not true.

"Jay met with the coach early on and then told me everything was going to be OK. He said, 'We are going to work this out; we are on the same wavelength.' Everything was fine until Saturday two weeks ago. Jay called me and asked, 'Are they trying to trade me?' I told him, 'No, why would they try to do that?'"

That was when the story broke that the Broncos had discussions about trading Cutler in a deal that would bring then-New England quarterback and McDaniels mentee Matt Cassel to Denver. Cassel wound up being traded to the Kansas City Chiefs, but Cutler has said he lost trust in McDainiels because of the way the entire episode was handled.


» Broncos on Cutler situation "We told them the evening of our last meeting that Jay wanted to be a Bronco even before the meeting," Cook said. "Jay told them he understood about the coach's relationship with Matt Cassel. At no time was the coach critical of Jay. In fact, he told Jay soon after he got to Denver that Jay was the reason he came to Denver. So, why was he trying to trade him? All the guy had to do was say I dropped the ball, I have a special bond with Cassel, you are my guy. Jay never heard that. What he heard in the meeting was it could happen again."

An absolute mess here all around.

Bowlen realizes it. He was asked if he thought Cutler would remain a Bronco.

"To tell you the truth, I have no answer to that question," Bowlen said. "I would like to keep him here, obviously. But if you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."

Bowlen was asked if he has reservations about McDaniels, his new coach, or the way he handled this matter.

"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said. "I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 03:21 PM
"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said.

Why is that obvious? Is he talking "ever" or just in this limited instance? Kind of a significant difference there.

rovolution
03-18-2009, 03:23 PM
If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."
-- Broncos owner Pat BowlenBowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."


This is really embarassing to hear as a Broncos fan coming from the owner of my team.

Coupled with his debachery of a speech for Zimms HOF induction and this bumbling crap, im beginning to wonder if Bowlen is suffering from the onset of Alzheimers (and im sorry if a offend anyone here who knows someone suffering from it, but i really question Bowlens ability to run this franchise when i hear stuff like this)

LonghornBronco
03-18-2009, 03:23 PM
Wrong Bowlen, you do need to deal with this! The Bronco's ability to compete over the next decade hang in the balance.

OBF1
03-18-2009, 03:23 PM
The only time an agent lies is when his lips are moving

no-pseudo-fan
03-18-2009, 03:24 PM
I honestly think that Bowlen has talked to McD, and told him he F'ed up on this whole situation. He needs to tell McD to fix it now.

Taco John
03-18-2009, 03:24 PM
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8765/mcdanielst613.jpg

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 03:27 PM
"I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

Whoa, whoa, whoa, compadre. You mean the world doesn't stop spinning when Jay Cutler isn't in the fold?

Shocking.

2KBack
03-18-2009, 03:28 PM
If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."
-- Broncos owner Pat BowlenBowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."


This is really embarassing to hear as a Broncos fan coming from the owner of my team.

Coupled with his debachery of a speech for Zimms HOF induction and this bumbling crap, im beginning to wonder if Bowlen is suffering from the onset of Alzheimers (and im sorry if a offend anyone here who knows someone suffering from it, but i really question Bowlens ability to run this franchise when i hear stuff like this)

Pretty sure that was a joke.

Popps
03-18-2009, 03:28 PM
Folks, Bowlen has already dealt with it.

Jay can honor his contract or **** right off.

K?

Problem dealt with.

:)

USMCBladerunner
03-18-2009, 03:28 PM
You know...I've pretty much been in McDaniels court throughout this, and this doesn't really change that for me, but Pat is starting to sound a little loose in his screws...how can he get past this personally until the organization gets past it professionally...none of us, including him, even know what exactly needs to be gotten past.

I'm not really inclined to take Cook at face value, he has every reason to stoke this thing up, but in this article he is doing a far better job of painting the Broncos as unreasonably contentious than vice versa.

rovolution
03-18-2009, 03:29 PM
Pretty sure that was a joke.

after watching his Zimmerman HOF induction speech im not so sure

sisterhellfyre
03-18-2009, 03:29 PM
Wrong Bowlen, you do need to deal with this! The Bronco's ability to compete over the next decade hang in the balance.

Eh. Whatever. I'm just waiting to see where Jay ends up, and how much the Broncos get back for him in the trade.

Regards,
m.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 03:30 PM
Ok thats pretty ****ing weak if Bowlen meant that. Yikes!

2KBack
03-18-2009, 03:30 PM
after watching his Zimmerman HOF induction speech im not so sure

I don't remember him ever being a very good speaker

Popps
03-18-2009, 03:31 PM
Bowlen said on Wednesday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay.

Big shocker, huh? Bowlen didn't need to pull Jay out of his beer-pong tournament to ask his thoughts on how to run the franchise.

Of course, anyone with a basic understanding of the business workplace would have known that was the case.

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 03:31 PM
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8765/mcdanielst613.jpg

HAHAHAHAHA

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 03:32 PM
I don't remember him ever being a very good speaker

True. "This one's... for John!" even came out a little stilted.

DrFate
03-18-2009, 03:32 PM
I've read the piece three times. I still don't know what Bowlen is trying to say? He's just going to ignore things?

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 03:33 PM
Big shocker, huh? Bowlen didn't need to pull Jay out of his beer-pong tournament to ask his thoughts on how to run the franchise.

Of course, anyone with a basic understanding of the business workplace would have known that was the case.

Except for when Bowlen said "Jay's the man now" and that he would "keep Jay up to date with what was going on."

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 03:33 PM
I've read the piece three times. I still don't know what Bowlen is trying to say? He's just going to ignore things?

Yeah its a very disjointed conversation to say the least. :nono:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 03:34 PM
I've read the piece three times. I still don't know what Bowlen is trying to say? He's just going to ignore things?

You know what he's saying?

THERE'S NOTHING TO BE ****ING GAINED BY TALKING TO THE MEDIA ABOUT THIS. That's what he's saying.

he's toeing the company line. nothing more.

If you want to make drama in the papers, you're going to have to contact Bus Cook or Jay Cutler.

skpac1001
03-18-2009, 03:34 PM
"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that."

Love him or hate him, Jay has got some serious balls as a 3rd year qb to have this type of conversation with his owner.

Popps
03-18-2009, 03:35 PM
I've read the piece three times. I still don't know what Bowlen is trying to say?

Here ya go...

"I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

I underlined what he's going to do, if that helps.

Perhaps you mean what is Cutlerbus going to do? Honor their contract or **** on the fans/teammates?

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 03:35 PM
I've read the piece three times. I still don't know what Bowlen is trying to say? He's just going to ignore things?

He's never really been that comfortable in dealing with player personnel in his organization. It's just a part of who he is... so it's not really surprising to see that he's trying to avoid everything.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 03:35 PM
Except for when Bowlen said "Jay's the man now" and that he would "keep Jay up to date with what was going on."

Uh oh. Does that mean we should expect to see some quotes from Jay tomorrow about how he feels lied to and disrespected, and how he can't possibly come back to Denver unless he's shown some long-term money... er... commitment?

Boy, I hope so. That story never gets old.

Popps
03-18-2009, 03:36 PM
"as got some serious balls as a 3rd year qb to have this type of conversation with his owner.

That's not balls, it's stupidity and an absolutely unrealistic and warped view of your self-importance.

Jay, do this...

Shut up, throw-football-good, cash huge checks, chase tail.

You do that... and the organization will worry about organizational issues.

USMCBladerunner
03-18-2009, 03:36 PM
Folks, Bowlen has already dealt with it.

Jay can honor his contract or **** right off.

K?

Problem dealt with.

:)

I agree, it pretty much reduces to that.

If Cook is telling the truth, I guess Jay just needs more affirmation than MCDaniels is willing to give. The team isn't wrong to maintain the position that anyone is tradeable. I think they should take a step or two to help Cutler understand that the cost of a team trading for him is virtually prohibitive so he can feel better about himself.

I'm pretty sure that the Broncos perception of this is quite different, and I doubt this is as simple as a few missing words in a meeting.

socalorado
03-18-2009, 03:38 PM
So whats going on?
Theres a rift between McDaniels and Cutler?!

mwill07
03-18-2009, 03:39 PM
If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."
-- Broncos owner Pat BowlenBowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."


This is really embarassing to hear as a Broncos fan coming from the owner of my team.

Coupled with his debachery of a speech for Zimms HOF induction and this bumbling crap, im beginning to wonder if Bowlen is suffering from the onset of Alzheimers (and im sorry if a offend anyone here who knows someone suffering from it, but i really question Bowlens ability to run this franchise when i hear stuff like this)

let's be accurate here - read the article. The line "If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here." is from today, or recently. That was not what Bowlen said in January. The way it was cut and pasted from NFL.com is a little misleading.

Smiling Assassin27
03-18-2009, 03:41 PM
Gutless...















Drunk...........

no-pseudo-fan
03-18-2009, 03:41 PM
Jay wants to be in Denver. Bus tells Denver, Jay wants to be in Denver. Bowlen wants Jay to be in Denver. McD is having an Napoleon Complex during the meeting and F's the whole thing up? I just don't understand what is going on. McD needs to act like a leader, and a guy that has as much to prove as anyone. "Jay you are my guy, period."

fontaine
03-18-2009, 03:41 PM
Pat Bowlen is right.

There's no win for the guy if he intervenes. If he acknowledges Jay's position and tries to talk him into the fold then he weakens McDaniels position as a head coach.

If he takes McDaniels side then he sets a dangerous precedent and alienates his franchise QB.

Bowlen is doing exactly what Jay and McDaniels SHOULD have done and be doing. Let the people you pay for this sort of thing handle it (Bus Cook/Xanders) rather than getting personally involved in he said she said bullsh*t!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 03:43 PM
Jay wants to be in Denver. Bus tells Denver, Jay wants to be in Denver. Bowlen wants Jay to be in Denver. McD is having an Napoleon Complex during the meeting and F's the whole thing up? I just don't understand what is going on. McD needs to act like a leader, and a guy that has as much to prove as anyone. "Jay you are my guy, period."

Jay says he wants to be in Denver. Puts his house on the market. Bus tells denver to make him feel "comfortable, long-term." McDaniels and Xanders both try to convince Cutler, since the "we are not trading Jay Cutler, period" over and over again hasn't worked, that they're not trading him. Doesn't matter.

Flies to Nashvegas.

Cries into pillow.

Gets quoted in media.

skpac1001
03-18-2009, 03:43 PM
That's not balls, it's stupidity and an absolutely unrealistic and warped view of your self-importance.

Jay, do this...

Shut up, throw-football-good, cash huge checks, chase tail.

You do that... and the organization will worry about organizational issues.

Well whatever it was, it certainly reinforces the idea that things were way too relaxed under Bowlen/Shanny. McDaniels won't be having that, I think.

DrFate
03-18-2009, 03:44 PM
Pat Bowlen is right.

There's no win for the guy if he intervenes. If he acknowledges Jay's position and tries to talk him into the fold then he weakens McDaniels position as a head coach.

If he takes McDaniels side then he sets a dangerous precedent and alienates his franchise QB.

Bowlen is doing exactly what Jay and McDaniels SHOULD have done and be doing. Let the people you pay for this sort of thing handle it (Bus Cook/Xanders) rather than getting personally involved!

That is an interesting take. I just wonder, in the age of internet speculation, being so detached (even if for the right reasons) causes things to degrade further.

no-pseudo-fan
03-18-2009, 03:44 PM
You know if we would have kept Jay's QB coach/friend, Bates would have figured this one out and fixed it quicker than Columbo.

USMCBladerunner
03-18-2009, 03:44 PM
Pat Bowlen is right.

There's no win for the guy if he intervenes. If he acknowledges Jay's position and tries to talk him into the fold then he weakens McDaniels position as a head coach.

If he takes McDaniels side then he sets a dangerous precedent and alienates his franchise QB.

Bowlen is doing exactly what Jay and McDaniels SHOULD have done and be doing. Let the people you pay for this sort of thing handle it (Bus Cook/Xanders) rather than getting personally involved!

I hope you are right...there is a subtle but keen logic to that...it didn't read that clever, but I hope you are right.

Blueflame
03-18-2009, 03:45 PM
Translation from Pat: Get that microphone out of my face. I'm gonna be late for Happy Hour.

skpac1001
03-18-2009, 03:48 PM
That is an interesting take. I just wonder, in the age of internet speculation, being so detached (even if for the right reasons) causes things to degrade further.

That is what I would tend to think. Nothing good can come from having Cook handling all communication. Then again, nothing good has come from McDaniels/Cutler meeting either, so who knows.

worm
03-18-2009, 03:49 PM
Way to take control of your team, Pat.

Pseudofool
03-18-2009, 03:51 PM
Pat Bowlen is right.

There's no win for the guy if he intervenes. If he acknowledges Jay's position and tries to talk him into the fold then he weakens McDaniels position as a head coach.

If he takes McDaniels side then he sets a dangerous precedent and alienates his franchise QB.

Bowlen is doing exactly what Jay and McDaniels SHOULD have done and be doing. Let the people you pay for this sort of thing handle it (Bus Cook/Xanders) rather than getting personally involved in he said she said bullsh*t!Didn't McD try that and then get criticized for not reaching out to Jay?

fontaine
03-18-2009, 03:51 PM
this is getting ridiculous.

In one offseason Bowlen goes from one of the best owners in all professional sports to being a gutless drunk bordering on senility?

The guy isn't taking sides, because he's never taken sides.

Bowlen used to be praised for not being a meddling owner and letting football people handle the football side of things whenever a crack pot like Al Davis, Snyder or Jerry Jones got personally involved.

And now in ONE offseason he's being criticized as a gutless drunk and senile fool because he's doing the same thing he's been doing all the years when he was praised as one of best owners in sports?

Make up your damn minds already. This board has gone to full blown Jerry Springer mode.

lostknight
03-18-2009, 03:51 PM
What a mess. But there are a few interesting things.
* Contrary to what he said - Bowlen did not talk to Jay before Shanahan was fired. He wiggled about it back then as well.
* Bowlen's comments about McDaniels were far from a sterling review of a subordinate. He is trying to end the situation.
* McDaniels is GM. No one doubt that.
* The front office probably spread another lie that Cook was "begging" for a trade.

no-pseudo-fan
03-18-2009, 03:52 PM
Jay says he wants to be in Denver. Puts his house on the market. Bus tells denver to make him feel "comfortable, long-term." McDaniels and Xanders both try to convince Cutler, since the "we are not trading Jay Cutler, period" over and over again hasn't worked, that they're not trading him. Doesn't matter.

Flies to Nashvegas.

Cries into pillow.

Gets quoted in media.

I'm sorry, but McD has not made any move to say that he wants Jay in Denver. Did he fly to Nashville to speak to Jay, personally? This whole thing started with McD, and McD needs to fix it.

Inkana7
03-18-2009, 03:52 PM
You know if we would have kept Jay's QB coach/friend, Bates would have figured this one out and fixed it quicker than Columbo.

Bates' only use was to be a buddy for Baby Cutler. He impressed me through 4 games, then he lost his touch.

lostknight
03-18-2009, 03:52 PM
this is getting ridiculous.

In one offseason Bowlen goes from one of the best owners in all professional sports to being a gutless drunk bordering on senility?

The guy isn't taking sides, because he's never taken sides.

Bowlen used to be praised for not being a meddling owner and letting football people handle the football side of things whenever a crack pot like Al Davis, Snyder or Jerry Jones got personally involved.

And now in ONE offseason he's being criticized as a gutless drunk and senile fool because he's doing the same thing he's been doing?

Make up your damn minds already. This board has gone to full blown Jerry Springer mode.

That was before he declared himself as the decision maker and allowed a 32 year old rookie coach to fire all the adults in the building. Since then, his lack of leadership has allowed a bad situation to get infinitively worse.

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 04:07 PM
Pull the trigger and he'll make you famous, Pat.

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 04:16 PM
Bowlen said on Wednesday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay.

Big shocker, huh? Bowlen didn't need to pull Jay out of his beer-pong tournament to ask his thoughts on how to run the franchise.

Of course, anyone with a basic understanding of the business workplace would have known that was the case.

Wrong yet again, Popps. I'm a little surprised that you can't understand this. I know you're sharp, I can see it in your posts even if I don't agree with them all the time.

Jay is a loose cannon. He fires his mouth and probably isn't smart enough to figure out when or if he screwed up! I assume that you would agree with that as you've called him a baby (and a 'couple' other names ;D). So with that in mind, a HOF coach gets fired. This QB that has a "issue" with keeping his thoughts to himself, happens to be pretty close to said HOF coach. You don't think it would have been a smart BUSINESS decision on Bowlen's part to call Jay and let him know what was up. I could have done it the job was so easy. "Jay, like you I'm pretty fed up with how the season ended. The final straw for me was Mike wanting to keep Slowik around. I think you can agree that we need to make some serious changes to make this a superbowl team. The media is going to call and I would appreciate you echoing those sentiments. We are 'in it to win it', nothing else needs to be said." A two or three minute conversation Popps. While I agree that it is Pat's team and he can pretty much do what he sees fit and certainly doesn't have to answer to anybody, it is a business and communicating with your employees is generally a good practice. Do you not agree?

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 04:20 PM
Didn't McD try that and then get criticized for not reaching out to Jay?

Yes, mainly b/c Xanders isn't the real GM and wasn't the one trying to trade for Matt Cassel. I think that's probably a pretty important point to consider.

RunSilentRunDeep
03-18-2009, 04:24 PM
I'm annoyed with the way Jay has handled this even if Josh botched the whole deal. Bowlen should have said, "Jay's a great quarterback, but he has to make a decision, play for the Denver Broncos and play well or not play at all. End of story. Talk to you after the draft."

richpjr
03-18-2009, 04:33 PM
Wrong yet again, Popps. I'm a little surprised that you can't understand this. I know you're sharp, I can see it in your posts even if I don't agree with them all the time.

Jay is a loose cannon. He fires his mouth and probably isn't smart enough to figure out when or if he screwed up! I assume that you would agree with that as you've called him a baby (and a 'couple' other names ;D). So with that in mind, a HOF coach gets fired. This QB that has a "issue" with keeping his thoughts to himself, happens to be pretty close to said HOF coach. You don't think it would have been a smart BUSINESS decision on Bowlen's part to call Jay and let him know what was up. I could have done it the job was so easy. "Jay, like you I'm pretty fed up with how the season ended. The final straw for me was Mike wanting to keep Slowik around. I think you can agree that we need to make some serious changes to make this a superbowl team. The media is going to call and I would appreciate you echoing those sentiments. We are 'in it to win it', nothing else needs to be said." A two or three minute conversation Popps. While I agree that it is Pat's team and he can pretty much do what he sees fit and certainly doesn't have to answer to anybody, it is a business and communicating with your employees is generally a good practice. Do you not agree?

I am really puzzled why anyone would seriously think the owner of a team would need to call up a player who is under contract for 3 more years to try and justify, explain, or rationalize his actions. Cutler is an employee who has been pain many millions of dollars to play. It's not his call who comes and goes. If he needs to explain things to Cutler, than why not to Champ? Or anyone else on the roster? Seriously, if the guy is so mentally fragile that he needs to be pampered like this, is that really a guy you want leading your team? And, unfortunately, whoever is to "blame" for what happened with the trade talk, he is going out of his way to firmly reinforce the pouty Jay reputation and is badly losing the PR battle here. I'm wondering if how he is handling this is making the front office want to trade him more, rather than keep him.

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 04:38 PM
I am really puzzled why anyone would seriously think the owner of a team would need to call up a player who is under contract for 3 more years to try and justify, explain, or rationalize his actions. Cutler is an employee who has been pain many millions of dollars to play. It's not his call who comes and goes. If he needs to explain things to Cutler, than why not to Champ? Or anyone else on the roster? Seriously, if the guy is so mentally fragile that he needs to be pampered like this, is that really a guy you want leading your team? And, unfortunately, whoever is to "blame" for what happened with the trade talk, he is going out of his way to firmly reinforce the pouty Jay reputation and is badly losing the PR battle here. I'm wondering if how he is handling this is making the front office want to trade him more, rather than keep him.

Then you're probably puzzled why Bowlen said so himself!!! Remember the whole "I'll keep Jay in the loop" comments from Bowlen after he fired Shanny. Evidently he thought it was important but probably forgot after he sobered up!!!

broncsyanks
03-18-2009, 04:41 PM
let me further say: what exactly has mcdaniels done to warrant such a impacting team move? i mean this thing with this guy is rediculous. If there ever could have been a trade for a backup quaterback for a all star quaterback- then that person should be fired and shot!. for being so stupid. For some reason i keep saying to myself - how many games has this guy coached professionally? and how many games has he won to try and do this to a team. everyone here can say what they want to disagree with almost everyone in the NFL- that everyone is in agreement that cutler is a talented quaterback and is young. thats real potential. if mcdaniels comes in here and loses more games in a season that shanny won and we lose cutler- then its on bowlens face cause what the hell did u do for us with doing this? but dont worry we signed lamont jordan. our offense was fine last year with the exception of a solid running game due to injuries.

regarding cutler- i also agree. grow up. yes it sux that you lost your friends who got fired but you can have your cake and eat it to. in NY they are already starting to monitor the cutler sweepstakes as well as a possible trade for trent edwards is in the mix as a possibility. well i would rather have a qb who can play like cutler- but if we are going to trade him - then we better get 2 Number 1's and or a number 1 and a Qb in return

broncofan7
03-18-2009, 04:45 PM
Then you're probably puzzled why Bowlen said so himself!!! Remember the whole "I'll keep Jay in the loop" comments from Bowlen after he fired Shanny. Evidently he thought it was important but probably forgot after he sobered up!!!

EXACTLY. Bowlen stated "Jay's the man around here now, ......" So now we have contradictions from McD and Bowlen--go ahead and trade your franchise QB(YES FRANCHISE QB for those who cannot recognize talent) and give the keys to a coach with no previous HC experience and whose NE coaching tree pedigree is littered with failure (like Jimmy Johnsons). That's not a risk that a sane person takes......the facts/stats backed up getting rid of Shanny, getting rid of Cutler would be pure idiocy.

lostknight
03-18-2009, 04:49 PM
EXACTLY. Bowlen stated "Jay's the man around here now, ......" So now we have contradictions from McD and Bowlen--go ahead and trade your franchise QB(YES FRANCHISE QB for those who cannot recognize talent) and give the keys to a coach with no previous HC experience and whose NE coaching tree pedigree is littered with failure (like Jimmy Johnsons). That's not a risk that a sane person takes......the facts/stats backed up getting rid of Shanny, getting rid of Cutler would be pure idiocy.

Not to mention the whole "Goodman is the GM" comments.

What a freaken disaster.
Someone should check and see if he's been drinking from the Al Davis fountain at the NFL owners meeting. Then check the fountain for lead poisoning.

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2009, 04:50 PM
I'm rapidly losing confidence in Bowlen. He just does not APPEAR to have a handle on the situation. He can't "remember" a very important conversation with his "star" QB right after he fired Shanny?

I'm calling BS on that Pat.

fontaine
03-18-2009, 04:52 PM
Wrong yet again, Popps. I'm a little surprised that you can't understand this. I know you're sharp, I can see it in your posts even if I don't agree with them all the time.

Jay is a loose cannon. He fires his mouth and probably isn't smart enough to figure out when or if he screwed up! I assume that you would agree with that as you've called him a baby (and a 'couple' other names ;D). So with that in mind, a HOF coach gets fired. This QB that has a "issue" with keeping his thoughts to himself, happens to be pretty close to said HOF coach. You don't think it would have been a smart BUSINESS decision on Bowlen's part to call Jay and let him know what was up. I could have done it the job was so easy. "Jay, like you I'm pretty fed up with how the season ended. The final straw for me was Mike wanting to keep Slowik around. I think you can agree that we need to make some serious changes to make this a superbowl team. The media is going to call and I would appreciate you echoing those sentiments. We are 'in it to win it', nothing else needs to be said." A two or three minute conversation Popps. While I agree that it is Pat's team and he can pretty much do what he sees fit and certainly doesn't have to answer to anybody, it is a business and communicating with your employees is generally a good practice. Do you not agree?

I know what you're saying here but isn't that why Pat hired a head coach?

To be fair to McDaniels he said exactly that, going so far as saying Jay was a big reason why he chose Denver but then the trade fiasco went down.

OrangeRising
03-18-2009, 04:53 PM
Pat Bowlen - "If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."

Well, game over. Why is anyone even discussing this any further. Once the owner opts out on the subject, the player is soon to follow. Unless, and of course this is a possibility, Pat can't remember the conversation tomorrow.

Then it's all good.

lostknight
03-18-2009, 05:03 PM
I think even McDaniels isn't stupid enough to trade Jay if he doesn't get someone decent in return. Right now McDaniel's entire universe seems to be Cassel. One really wonders what exactly McDaniel sees in him that he is willing to burn his offense to the ground on it. We talking about greek levels of obsession here with our new head boy.

outdoor_miner
03-18-2009, 05:08 PM
Why are you guys acting like McDaniels was going to trade Cassel for Cutler straight up??? Have you completely forgotten the rumored "other compensation" (draft picks) that we would have used to improve our crappy defense? I think the point was he could potentially get a qb that he knew could run his offense (low risk), and some other pieces to add to the rest of the puzzle Obviously, we don't know the exact compensation that was offered, but it's not like many people believe they were trying to trade Cutler for Cassel straight up.

spdirty
03-18-2009, 05:11 PM
just dont ****ing trade him. Please.

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 06:38 PM
F that, trade his ass for as much value as you can get!!!

Now there are a few reports that say the offer was a pair of first round picks AND Cassel... couple that with what has been said from the Broncos FO that they did not seriously consider any offers and you have a recipe for FIRING SOMEBODY NOW! Seriously, two first round picks and McD's blanky at QB and you turned it down... AND THEN decided to play the D*ckhead role with Cutler! There may be some fans Brown Bag'n it this year!!!

CEH
03-18-2009, 06:44 PM
T George was just on. Said both Bus and Bowlen were very respectful to each other. No animosity. The issue is between Cutler and McD. While they can work it out it will not last and the enviable outcome Cutler will be traded.
He thought McD knew Cassell could be had from the beginning but didn't execute his plan. This aggresive approach would have been Cassell and a couple first round picks. What a way to start his Denver career

Has Cutler been exposed? No he's just a young man with alot of fire. A young man who will continue to grow on and off the field. Many want microwaved products from the beginning. Let the young man grow there's alot of responsiblity to grow into being a QB

Pretty good interview. George has known Bowlen for 20 years

BlaK-Argentina
03-18-2009, 07:21 PM
Everyone involved needs to shut the **** up, go to work and put this madness behind. I can't believe we might lose our QB over something like this. It's beyond stupid and I can't believe none of these grown men know how to handle the situation.

ZONA
03-18-2009, 07:32 PM
Wrong Bowlen, you do need to deal with this! The Bronco's ability to compete over the next decade hang in the balance.

OMG, I get where you are coming from but the total over exaggeration is killing me. Really? We're screwed for 10 years? Most teams go through 2 or 3 coaches in that term, probably sign about 60 to 80 FA's and draft around 50 players during a 10 year period. But we'd be damned during all that because we traded Cutler. Hilarious!

Circle Orange
03-18-2009, 08:08 PM
If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."
-- Broncos owner Pat BowlenBowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."


This is really embarassing to hear as a Broncos fan coming from the owner of my team.

Coupled with his debachery of a speech for Zimms HOF induction and this bumbling crap, im beginning to wonder if Bowlen is suffering from the onset of Alzheimers (and im sorry if a offend anyone here who knows someone suffering from it, but i really question Bowlens ability to run this franchise when i hear stuff like this)

Cripes, I didn't think Bowlen was THAT old... :olddude:

This gets more bizarre by the day. Next I'm expecting him to say they've already accquired Chris Simms.

Drek
03-18-2009, 08:22 PM
I think even McDaniels isn't stupid enough to trade Jay if he doesn't get someone decent in return. Right now McDaniel's entire universe seems to be Cassel. One really wonders what exactly McDaniel sees in him that he is willing to burn his offense to the ground on it. We talking about greek levels of obsession here with our new head boy.

He sees a fistful of first day picks coming back with Cassel, thats what.

And he even said himself that they felt the offers for Jay and their subsequent follow up for Cassel was too late in the game to work out, so they let it drop.

Hell, the guy picked out NE's replacement for him in last year's draft. Lot of love there though?

Not to mention the whole "Goodman is the GM" comments.

What a freaken disaster.
Someone should check and see if he's been drinking from the Al Davis fountain at the NFL owners meeting. Then check the fountain for lead poisoning.
He actually said he was happy with the FO situation. Obviously though as they got into off-season prep Jeff Goodman wasn't handling things professionally and it supposedly became clear that he wouldn't respond "well" to Xanders being promoted to GM. Jim Goodman just wanted to stay at VP of football operations over scouting and is a loyal father, so Bowlen understood that to can one was to can them both. He made the tough choice but it was the right choice.

I'm rapidly losing confidence in Bowlen. He just does not APPEAR to have a handle on the situation. He can't "remember" a very important conversation with his "star" QB right after he fired Shanny?

I'm calling BS on that Pat.

Has their been a more tongue in cheek statement made this off-season?

OF COURSE PAT BOWLEN REMEMBERS. HE REMEMBERS THAT CONVERSATION NEVER ****ING HAPPENING! But he's not about to call Jay Cutler and his agent liars through the media. Why? Because he's got class and professionalism. Something Cutler and Cook could take the lead from.

This article should sort some **** out for people. There is a blatant non-denial of Cutler wanting out after Bates was canned, since Cook said "I never asked for a trade", i.e. Cutler did but it never reached a point where Cook formally requested one.

And yet more evidence that all of this bull**** is because Cutler got butt hurt over some rumors and now won't let it go, probably because Cook keeps egging it on as an effective way to milk a new deal.

Its about damn time for Cutler to grow up and come into Dove Valley minus his binky of an agent. Him and McDaniels can sit down and actually talk some legitimate **** without McDaniels being lied to and Cook trying to spin everything.

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2009, 08:38 PM
Has their been a more tongue in cheek statement made this off-season?
OF COURSE PAT BOWLEN REMEMBERS. HE REMEMBERS THAT CONVERSATION NEVER ****ING HAPPENING! But he's not about to call Jay Cutler and his agent liars through the media. Why? Because he's got class and professionalism. Something Cutler and Cook could take the lead from.

This article should sort some **** out for people. There is a blatant non-denial of Cutler wanting out after Bates was canned, since Cook said "I never asked for a trade", i.e. Cutler did but it never reached a point where Cook formally requested one.

And yet more evidence that all of this bull**** is because Cutler got butt hurt over some rumors and now won't let it go, probably because Cook keeps egging it on as an effective way to milk a new deal.

Its about damn time for Cutler to grow up and come into Dove Valley minus his binky of an agent. Him and McDaniels can sit down and actually talk some legitimate **** without McDaniels being lied to and Cook trying to spin everything.

That's how you see it. I say again, it APPEARS Bowlen is not on top of things. You say it's tongue and cheak, sorry, I can't read his tone like you can.

TonyR
03-18-2009, 08:57 PM
Florio can be a hack sometimes but he makes some great points here (and almost looks like he stole a line from Popps from earlier in this thread).

COOK KEEPS IT UP
Posted by Mike Florio on March 18, 2009, 10:34 p.m.
At a time when more and more league observers are observing that agent Bus Cook is more of a problem-maker than problem-solver, more evidence has emerged suggesting that Cook, like many other agents, is using the representation of one high-profile client as ammunition for recruiting more of them.

Cook doesn’t represent any of the elite members of the 2009 quarterback class. So at a time when we all should be more focused on the fates of Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, and Josh Freeman, the Jay Cutler drama is engulfing the league.

And Cook is in the thick of it.

And we think he loves every second of it.

On Wednesday, Cook offered Cutler’s spin on the roots of the problem that now exists between player and franchise.

“Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner,” Cook told Thomas George of NFL.com. “The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff.”

Bowlen denied the allegation, sort of. “I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent,” Bowlen said. “Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don’t think I had that discussion. I don’t recall it. I know I’m getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion.”

If Bowlen had the discussion and forgets, there’s a reason for it better than advancing age. The discussion, if it occurred, wouldn’t have been memorable to Bowlen because Bowlen doesn’t need Cutler’s permission when deciding how to run the business Bowlen owns.

And that’s where this soap opera acquired its first hint of lather. Somehow, Cutler allowed himself to believe that being the quarterback also means calling the shots when it comes to hiring the coach.

Then again, Cook represented Brett Favre, who spent his last few seasons in Green Bay under the mistaken impression that he was also the General Manager of the team.

For those who say that Cook is merely a bystander in this process, we couldn’t disagree more vehemently. Cook should have pulled Cutler aside early in the process, and Cook should have explained to Cutler that Favre played for four different coaches during his time in Titletown, and that it’s common for players to have to adapt to new coaches.

Cook also should have encouraged Cutler, explaining to him that if Josh McDaniels was able to help make Matt Cassel into a guy who’ll make $14.65 million in 2009, then McDaniels could make Cutler into a Hall of Famer.

But Cook didn’t. Instead, he instigated and agitated just enough to set the stage for the drama of the offseason, and even if Cutler emerges with a new contract paying $30 million in guaranteed money, Cook’s three-percent fee will pale in comparison to the value of the free advertising he has enjoyed.

[http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/18/cook-keeps-it-up/

wandlc
03-18-2009, 09:17 PM
Bowlen said on Wednesday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay.

Big shocker, huh? Bowlen didn't need to pull Jay out of his beer-pong tournament to ask his thoughts on how to run the franchise.

Of course, anyone with a basic understanding of the business workplace would have known that was the case.

From Bowlen's mouth at the Shanahan firing press conference:

"11:22: Bowlen said he had a meaningful conversation with Jay Cutler on Wednesday morning. "I've talked to Jay Cutler this morning and I did not get any negative feedback from him. Obviously Jay is the man around here now, so I will be talking to him."

wandlc
03-18-2009, 09:19 PM
He sees a fistful of first day picks coming back with Cassel, thats what.

And he even said himself that they felt the offers for Jay and their subsequent follow up for Cassel was too late in the game to work out, so they let it drop.

Hell, the guy picked out NE's replacement for him in last year's draft. Lot of love there though?


He actually said he was happy with the FO situation. Obviously though as they got into off-season prep Jeff Goodman wasn't handling things professionally and it supposedly became clear that he wouldn't respond "well" to Xanders being promoted to GM. Jim Goodman just wanted to stay at VP of football operations over scouting and is a loyal father, so Bowlen understood that to can one was to can them both. He made the tough choice but it was the right choice.



Has their been a more tongue in cheek statement made this off-season?

OF COURSE PAT BOWLEN REMEMBERS. HE REMEMBERS THAT CONVERSATION NEVER ****ING HAPPENING! But he's not about to call Jay Cutler and his agent liars through the media. Why? Because he's got class and professionalism. Something Cutler and Cook could take the lead from.

This article should sort some **** out for people. There is a blatant non-denial of Cutler wanting out after Bates was canned, since Cook said "I never asked for a trade", i.e. Cutler did but it never reached a point where Cook formally requested one.

And yet more evidence that all of this bull**** is because Cutler got butt hurt over some rumors and now won't let it go, probably because Cook keeps egging it on as an effective way to milk a new deal.

Its about damn time for Cutler to grow up and come into Dove Valley minus his binky of an agent. Him and McDaniels can sit down and actually talk some legitimate **** without McDaniels being lied to and Cook trying to spin everything.

Right, see my post above.

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 09:27 PM
And he even said himself that they felt the offers for Jay and their subsequent follow up for Cassel was too late in the game to work out, so they let it drop.
Drek, I've never seen you like this. Several days ago you said "every GM has gone on the record" saying the Broncos hadn't been shopping Jay, to which I pointed out NO general managers would speak out of turn like that about confidential negotiations, much less "on the record."

Now you're explaining away things to your liking here with a quote/paraphrase from Josh that I don't recall ever seeing/hearing. He might have said it, I just never saw it. So please, because I'm skeptical here I'd like to see a source/link for this paraphrasing you did of McDaniels:
And he even said himself that they felt the offers for Jay and their subsequent follow up for Cassel was too late in the game to work out, so they let it drop.

"Subsequent followup" IS involvement. If they listened and said no ... no "followup" required. Your use of the word "followup" is just euphemism for "tried to deal." So if Josh really did say the quote you gave above, then he DID lie to Jay. So just a source/link please, because I'm skeptical on that one.

I think this one point you should concede ... Josh tried to trade Jay. That point is pretty much universally accepted now, and is beyond mere "opinion."

Just to be clear: I'm not blindly defending Jay, he's being a baby here. I'll even admit I wish that trade would have gone through ... Cassel plus #1 and #20. And even now, I think Brady Quinn, Shaun Rogers and the #5 pick is a deal you pull the trigger on. So I'm not a blind Cutler supporter, I just agree with Shannon Sharpe and Herm Edwards, that Josh is making big rookie mistakes.
.

~Crash~
03-18-2009, 09:28 PM
how ****ing hard is it to say jay we want you as a Bronco ?

tsiguy96
03-18-2009, 09:31 PM
So I'm not a blind Cutler supporter, I just agree with Shannon Sharpe and Herm Edwards, that Josh is making big rookie mistakes.
.



i think everyone agrees with that pretty much universally, but at some point jay has to stop crying about it and realize that it may have actually been for the betterment of the team winning football games. an extra first round pick (prolly woulda gave one but got two) as well as a QB whos very versed in the system, its not a horrible deal, its just that everyone in denver is so in love with cutler they dont look at what the deal woulda done for the team, mcdaniels has no connection to cutler so if he sees an opportunity to trade him for a QB and picks, he has to consider it. a new head coach cant come in and be told well this guy and this guy are untradeable..

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 09:36 PM
From Bowlen's mouth at the Shanahan firing press conference:

"11:22: Bowlen said he had a meaningful conversation with Jay Cutler on Wednesday morning. "I've talked to Jay Cutler this morning and I did not get any negative feedback from him. Obviously Jay is the man around here now, so I will be talking to him."

Dude, that never happened if Pat "CRS" Bowlen doesn't recall... just ask any of the nut huggers that have posted in this thread, they'll tell you!

What a bunch of blind, homering, dumbasses! Pat Bowlen should leave the spin jobs for Pat Smyth and his PR personnel. He's fricking up the 'game'!

BroncoInferno
03-18-2009, 09:37 PM
I think this one point you should concede ... Josh tried to trade Jay. That point is pretty much universally accepted now, and is beyond mere "opinion."

Dead wrong, Buff. The only thing we know for certain is that McDaniels considered trading Cutler. Whether or not he actually tried to trade Cutler is in no way clear at this point.

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2009, 09:39 PM
i think everyone agrees with that pretty much universally, but at some point jay has to stop crying about it and realize that it may have actually been for the betterment of the team winning football games. an extra first round pick (prolly woulda gave one but got two) as well as a QB whos very versed in the system, its not a horrible deal, its just that everyone in denver is so in love with cutler they dont look at what the deal woulda done for the team, mcdaniels has no connection to cutler so if he sees an opportunity to trade him for a QB and picks, he has to consider it. a new head coach cant come in and be told well this guy and this guy are untradeable..

I think this is where Bus Cook enters. He's got to be manipulating the situation.

Mogulseeker
03-18-2009, 09:40 PM
It's all fluff anyway. Am I the only one who views this whole situation as media posturing for a bigger contract?

Jay never cared if he's traded.

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 09:41 PM
i think everyone agrees with that pretty much universally, but at some point jay has to stop crying about it and realize that it may have actually been for the betterment of the team winning football games.

Fine if it's better for the team and winning games, but they should've been honest with Jay. Period. Jay is not like the rest of us, he CAN just "quit" his job if he feels disrespected and lied to ... and still land on his feet. Land better than he was before, if the "new contract" conspiracy theorists are correct. Lots of teams want Jay. As they should.

I know Jay is being a baby ... but that comes with the territory of star quarterback. This 32 year-old coach's son kid coordinator needs to learn that this is not the Army, and you can't treat everyone the same, you just can't do it. As a coach's son and small-college player - who just buddied up and succeeded with a QB who hadn't started a game in 8 years, I certainly understand where his authoritative approach comes from, but it's unrealistic. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD, JOSH, STAR PLAYRES HAVE EGOS. And you should be honest with your star players. Hell, you should be honest with Nate freaking Webster.

A lot of this is a coach's son mentality ... an anti-star, armed forces type mentality. And that sickens me, because we're gonna lose an incredible player, a guy we waited ten years to get.
.

I'm just disgusted we're going to lose Jay ... just disgusted.

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 09:43 PM
Dead wrong, Buff. The only thing we know for certain is that McDaniels considered trading Cutler. Whether or not he actually tried to trade Cutler is in no way clear at this point.

Well one of two things happened BI. Either the Broncos tried to trade Cutler and, if you believe Xanders, briefly considered the offers and turned them down. That is, they turned down BOTH of Detroit's first round picks and Cassel to keep Cutler. If they truly turned down Cassel and a pair of firsts, SOMEBODY SHOULD BE FIRED!

Second, if you believe the other reports, the Broncos tried to trade Cutler and were a day late and a dollar short, sort of speak. If this is the case then the Broncos FO is in fact lying and they should either man up or deal with the consequences... consequences being SOMEBODY SHOULD BE FIRED!

I say they should fire Xanders, what the hell does he do any how? We have very little experience in our FO right now, that is what is killing this team the most. Imagine this, Dan Reeves was brought in to be a GM/consultant type immediately after Shanny was fired. McD either thinks about trading Cutler or is approached about trading Cutler. Do you think that maybe Reeves, due to his experience, could have offered some valuable insight to McD?

SoCalBronco
03-18-2009, 09:54 PM
I honestly think that Bowlen has talked to McD, and told him he F'ed up on this whole situation. He needs to tell McD to fix it now.

Yep. This quote just screams that Bowlen is more than a little pissed at the coach, which is good.

"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said. "I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 09:57 PM
I personally think the "Trying to be a head coach" was more of a swipe than the "star" comment from Gafftard.

HEAV
03-18-2009, 10:03 PM
"If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here." - Pat Bowlen

"Some of those guys are going to have to grow up quick because in this business they are not going to wait on you." -Rod Smith

"I don't care about money. I don't care about, 'Oh, you are a superstar. You are a celebrity.' To me, all that is crap, I just care about winning.”-Rod Smith

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 10:27 PM
"If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here." - Pat Bowlen

"Some of those guys are going to have to grow up quick because in this business they are not going to wait on you." -Rod Smith

"I don't care about money. I don't care about, 'Oh, you are a superstar. You are a celebrity.' To me, all that is crap, I just care about winning.”-Rod Smith

And?

This pollyanna mis-reading of the real world matters because?
.

lex
03-18-2009, 10:41 PM
I am really puzzled why anyone would seriously think the owner of a team would need to call up a player who is under contract for 3 more years to try and justify, explain, or rationalize his actions. Cutler is an employee who has been pain many millions of dollars to play. It's not his call who comes and goes. If he needs to explain things to Cutler, than why not to Champ? Or anyone else on the roster? Seriously, if the guy is so mentally fragile that he needs to be pampered like this, is that really a guy you want leading your team? And, unfortunately, whoever is to "blame" for what happened with the trade talk, he is going out of his way to firmly reinforce the pouty Jay reputation and is badly losing the PR battle here. I'm wondering if how he is handling this is making the front office want to trade him more, rather than keep him.


Actually, Cutler is a commodity more than an employee.

hambone13
03-18-2009, 11:07 PM
Actually, Cutler is a commodity more than an employee.

All of these blue collar analogies to JC and his contract and how he "should behave" the way any random job holder would or should is just ludicrous. A NFL QB is in a classification different than any job on the planet. If you think you have any idea how an NFL QB should react and how that would equate to how you might handle the same situation, just grab the lawn mower blade because you might as well beat yourself with it, repeatedly about the head and neck Sling Blade, it's vastly different.

lex
03-18-2009, 11:17 PM
Yep. This quote just screams that Bowlen is more than a little pissed at the coach, which is good.

"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said. "I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

I thought the more telling part could have been when he said, "I think he was trying to be a head coach."

outdoor_miner
03-18-2009, 11:18 PM
Well one of two things happened BI. Either the Broncos tried to trade Cutler and, if you believe Xanders, briefly considered the offers and turned them down. That is, they turned down BOTH of Detroit's first round picks and Cassel to keep Cutler. If they truly turned down Cassel and a pair of firsts, SOMEBODY SHOULD BE FIRED!

Second, if you believe the other reports, the Broncos tried to trade Cutler and were a day late and a dollar short, sort of speak. If this is the case then the Broncos FO is in fact lying and they should either man up or deal with the consequences... consequences being SOMEBODY SHOULD BE FIRED!

Where do you get that these are the only 2 possible options? One of the first rumors said that Tampa Bay called Denver about Cutler... When was that scenario debunked?

SoCalBronco
03-18-2009, 11:20 PM
I thought the more telling part could have been when he said, "I think he was trying to be a head coach."

I thought that was amusing as well.

Hopefully this reflects pressure that Pat is bringing to bear on McD within the building, but I won't hold my breath.

TheDave
03-18-2009, 11:22 PM
I thought that was amusing as well.

Hopefully this reflects pressure that Pat is bringing to bear on McD within the building, but I won't hold my breath.

Boy, I hope you are right. Unfortunately, around here people are saying that Bowlen is seriously pissed at Cutler and is more than willing to move him.

lex
03-18-2009, 11:26 PM
I thought that was amusing as well.

Hopefully this reflects pressure that Pat is bringing to bear on McD within the building, but I won't hold my breath.

No, I have a feeling that its more likely the case that Glenfiddich Bowlen is hiding under his desk most of the time.

SoCalBronco
03-18-2009, 11:30 PM
No, I have a feeling that its more likely the case that Glenfiddich Bowlen is hiding under his desk most of the time.

That would not surprise me, either.

lex
03-18-2009, 11:33 PM
Boy, I hope you are right. Unfortunately, around here people are saying that Bowlen is seriously pissed at Cutler and is more than willing to move him.

Bowlen has a huge problem on his hands. He can casually discard Cutler but the risk of fallout have more scenarios that end bad. But basically, if McDaniels doesnt win a SB this year and if Cutler does well this year, its going to be brutal to be around. See, at this point Pat can hide under his desk. But once the season starts and Mile High is a neverending cascade of boos, it will be hard for Bowlen to ignore. And it will only get worse if McDaniels doesnt win this year. Im sure at some point people will be putting up signs (maybe even billboards) that say "#6" or "I love Cutler", or "Trade the Owner".

TheDave
03-18-2009, 11:38 PM
Bowlen has a huge problem on his hands. He can casually discard Cutler but the risk of fallout have more scenarios that end bad. But basically, if McDaniels doesnt win a SB this year and if Cutler does well this year, its going to be brutal to be around. See, at this point Pat can hide under his desk. But once the season starts and Mile High is a neverending cascade of boos, it will be hard for Bowlen to ignore. And it will only get worse if McDaniels doesnt win this year. Im sure at some point people will be putting up signs (maybe even billboards) that say "#6" or "I love Cutler", or "Trade the Owner".

I don't disagree with you... at this point there are only 2 possible "winning" scenearios.

A herschel walker type deal or everyone makes nice. Everything else has WAY too much downside.

lex
03-18-2009, 11:44 PM
I don't disagree with you... at this point there are only 2 possible "winning" scenearios.

A herschel walker type deal or everyone makes nice. Everything else has WAY too much downside.


The Herschel Walker type deal does nothing though unless McDaniels wins this year and wins a SB within 2 years. And with the Herschel Walker deal, it took 3 years for it to translate into a SB. This has become such a tightrope where the fanbase is concerned. Thats why I dont think he will be traded until after they have mandatory meetings in April. I think theyll use that to guage how its working out and in the meantime hope that it somehow sorts itself out.

Jay is probably the one guy who has the cache to tighten the screws on Bowlen and Im kind of glad to see someone do it. Nevermind McDaniels. Hes small potatoes compared to Bowlen. Bowlen has been the bigger problem. It all goes back to him.

wandlc
03-18-2009, 11:48 PM
People keep saying that if Jay goes to Detroit it will be bad for him. Detroit has a young OL with some experience now, they have a good RB in Smith and as WR they have Calvin Johnson and Bryant Johnson. And I believe that the new HC Schwartz will be able to field a much better defense. With Jay I think the Lions would contend in the NFC north.

TonyR
03-19-2009, 06:57 AM
...unless McDaniels wins this year and wins a SB within 2 years...

You're hilarious. This team hasn't even made the playoffs in 3 years and the new guy gets 2 years not only to make the Super Bowl but to win it? Will you stop and listen to yourself?!?

colonelbeef
03-19-2009, 06:58 AM
You're hilarious. This team hasn't even made the playoffs in 3 years and the new guy gets 2 years not only to make the Super Bowl but to win it? Will you stop and listen to yourself?!?

If he loses Cutler and the team goes doesn't do better than 8-8, he will be gone in 2 years, the pressure from the fans will be overwhelming.

gunns
03-19-2009, 07:15 AM
Bowlen was asked if he has reservations about McDaniels, his new coach, or the way he handled this matter.

"Obviously, I am not going to criticize the head coach," Bowlen said. "I think he was trying to be a head coach. As I see it, Jay got upset about things and his feelings were hurt, and here we are. I am not going to weigh in on who is to blame here. This whole incident has been written about and talked about, and I am moving on, personally. We're getting ready for the draft and ready to play next season."

This statement tells me a lot. If he had answered with a simple No, I'd know that he felt McDaniels had handled the situation properly. He didn't answer it that way.

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 07:16 AM
If he loses Cutler and the team goes doesn't do better than 8-8, he will be gone in 2 years, the pressure from the fans will be overwhelming.

...and if Cutler goes to pro bowl with new team, he's done this year.

Drek
03-19-2009, 07:24 AM
You're hilarious. This team hasn't even made the playoffs in 3 years and the new guy gets 2 years not only to make the Super Bowl but to win it? Will you stop and listen to yourself?!?

This is what its all boiled down to. You basically have four camps on this board.

1. those who are so violently anti-McDaniels that they're looking for any scenario in which he'll be driven out.

2. So anti-Cutler that they'd rather see him traded no matter what at this point.

3. Enablers who are willing to overlook Cutler's irrational stance on this, poor handling of it through the media, etc. because he's the "franchise" and feel that the FO should just kiss his ass and shower him with money.

4. the few people who read whats being reported and use some logic to put the pieces together, seeing the situation for what it is, an over dramatized ordeal that Cutler has perpetuated by going to the media, and that the FO would prefer to squash and keep Cutler, not trade him.

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 07:29 AM
This is what its all boiled down to. You basically have four camps on this board.

1. those who are so violently anti-McDaniels that they're looking for any scenario in which he'll be driven out.

2. So anti-Cutler that they'd rather see him traded no matter what at this point.

3. Enablers who are willing to overlook Cutler's irrational stance on this, poor handling of it through the media, etc. because he's the "franchise" and feel that the FO should just kiss his ass and shower him with money.

4. the few people who read whats being reported and use some logic to put the pieces together, seeing the situation for what it is, an over dramatized ordeal that Cutler has perpetuated by going to the media, and that the FO would prefer to squash and keep Cutler, not trade him.

5. The "If Pat Kirwan or Tim Ryan or anyone else on Sirius Radio tell me to jump off a bridge, I will" group: aka Drek.

Cito Pelon
03-19-2009, 07:41 AM
The only time an agent lies is when his lips are moving

True. Agents are the last people to believe in any situation.

INbronco
03-19-2009, 07:58 AM
Way back when this started it was reported that Josh wanted Cassell when this deal came up. We were also told that Xanders nixed the deal. The owner apparently wasn't involved.

That sounds exactly like a tentative new head coach and a hard minded GM to me; exactly what everyone wanted after 14 years of autocracy with Shanny. Now everyone is bitching because of the uproar. Really, guys; you need to settle down and go on spring vacation so you can cool your guns.

For all the Josh bashers, you realize that the FO has only been trying to improve the team in the only ways they know how. This whole circus is media inspired (when news is few and far between) and worsened by Jay. Remember that he was called a crybaby long before this incident came up. I can recall other team instances like this and usually the players and teams try to keep it in house because nothing is gained by playing the press. With the modern advent of TO, Favre, Ocho and a number of other high profile players playing to the press, we have lost sight of the plan to produce a winning team. Nowadays it seems to be all about the ego. Maybe that will be the downfall of the NFL.

Circle Orange
03-19-2009, 08:11 AM
Actually, Cutler is a commodity more than an employee.

NFL = Meat Show.

always was, always will be. they check everything at the combine but teeth.

SportinOne
03-19-2009, 08:38 AM
This is what its all boiled down to. You basically have four camps on this board.

1. those who are so violently anti-McDaniels that they're looking for any scenario in which he'll be driven out.

2. So anti-Cutler that they'd rather see him traded no matter what at this point.

3. Enablers who are willing to overlook Cutler's irrational stance on this, poor handling of it through the media, etc. because he's the "franchise" and feel that the FO should just kiss his ass and shower him with money.

4. the few people who read whats being reported and use some logic to put the pieces together, seeing the situation for what it is, an over dramatized ordeal that Cutler has perpetuated by going to the media, and that the FO would prefer to squash and keep Cutler, not trade him.

4. (continued...) Basically, people that don't HATE Cutler but due to the fact that they are likely season ticket holders or long long time fans they have a team first, truth second attitude.

I don't understand how you people think that agents are any different than owners or coaches. They all lie. They are all white-collar "workers" at very very high positions with lots of income. They would do a lot of things to stay where they are.

BroncoInferno
03-19-2009, 08:53 AM
...and if Cutler goes to pro bowl with new team, he's done this year.

One thing you Josh bashers need to realize is that trading Cutler is actually going to give McDaniels a longer leash. Pat will give him more time because of the extenuating circumstance of Cutler flipping out on him (which I'd be willing to wager is Pat's view of this).

Rohirrim
03-19-2009, 09:11 AM
It's great having the avatars back, but Circle Orange's should be turned off. ;D

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 09:14 AM
One thing you Josh bashers need to realize is that trading Cutler is actually going to give McDaniels a longer leash. Pat will give him more time because of the extenuating circumstance of Cutler flipping out on him (which I'd be willing to wager is Pat's view of this).

Doubtful.

BroncoInferno
03-19-2009, 09:26 AM
Doubtful.

No, it isn't doubtful at all. Regardless of who you think is right or wrong here, Bowlen has an ego and will dig his heels in to prove firing Shanahan wasn't a mistake. Also, Cutler refused to taken even Bowlen's calls at one point. Whether or not you feel Cutler was justified in doing so, I'm sure that Bowlen was none to pleased that a guy he's given millions to wouldn't take his calls. Trading Cutler gives McD a longer leash, that's just how it's going to be whether you guys like it or not.

Taco John
03-19-2009, 09:29 AM
Josh's leash is largely going to be determined by how long the fans give him. Bowlen isn't going to sit on his hands if ticket sales drop in a tough economic climate, or boos cascade down on a losing team.

If Shanahan were here this year, people would be EXPECTING playoffs, no excuses this season. I don't think that expectation is going to change even with Cutler gone. Do you?

baja
03-19-2009, 09:48 AM
If you are going to be an unhappy camper, there is no real reason to be here."
-- Broncos owner Pat BowlenBowlen said on Monday afternoon: "I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."


This is really embarassing to hear as a Broncos fan coming from the owner of my team.

Coupled with his debachery of a speech for Zimms HOF induction and this bumbling crap, im beginning to wonder if Bowlen is suffering from the onset of Alzheimers (and im sorry if a offend anyone here who knows someone suffering from it, but i really question Bowlens ability to run this franchise when i hear stuff like this)

Bowlen was in a elevator when Al Davis turned and sneezed on him that was the beginning of the end.

BroncoInferno
03-19-2009, 09:54 AM
Josh's leash is largely going to be determined by how long the fans give him. Bowlen isn't going to sit on his hands if ticket sales drop in a tough economic climate, or boos cascade down on a losing team.

If Shanahan were here this year, people would be EXPECTING playoffs, no excuses this season. I don't think that expectation is going to change even with Cutler gone. Do you?

Even before Shanny was fired most people on this board were predicting another non-playoff season because of the train wreck defense and perceived murderous schedule.

I also don't believe ticket sales will decline. Denver has always been one of those towns where if someone wants to give up there seat, another fan will gladly fill the vacuum.

Do you really think Bowlen would can McD after a single season, Taco? I just don't see it happening unless we go 2-14 or something.

BlaK-Argentina
03-19-2009, 09:56 AM
Josh's leash is largely going to be determined by how long the fans give him. Bowlen isn't going to sit on his hands if ticket sales drop in a tough economic climate, or boos cascade down on a losing team.

If Shanahan were here this year, people would be EXPECTING playoffs, no excuses this season. I don't think that expectation is going to change even with Cutler gone. Do you?

Anyone that expects playoffs with a new coaching stuff and probably a new QB is going to be dissapointed. Let's be realistic here.

I mean, we can do it... a couple of teams did it last season but those are rare.

TheDave
03-19-2009, 10:03 AM
no one knows how long josh's leash is... go 1-15 this season and you bet he would get canned after the year is over. put together a couple of decent seasons with a playoff win or 2 and he could be here for a long time.

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 10:06 AM
No, it isn't doubtful at all. Regardless of who you think is right or wrong here, Bowlen has an ego and will dig his heels in to prove firing Shanahan wasn't a mistake. Also, Cutler refused to taken even Bowlen's calls at one point. Whether or not you feel Cutler was justified in doing so, I'm sure that Bowlen was none to pleased that a guy he's given millions to wouldn't take his calls. Trading Cutler gives McD a longer leash, that's just how it's going to be whether you guys like it or not.

Let's not lose sight of how this situation started...

Bowlen publicly states that Jay is the man around here.
Josh tries to trade him.
*Backfire*

Now if he trades him, and Cutler has a pro bowl season with another team, and the Broncos flounder. He's ****ing done man.

If he's not... well, I haven't seen a bottle of scotch deep enough for him not be.

HEAV
03-19-2009, 10:57 AM
"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

Bowlen said Wednesday afternoon that he did not recall meeting with Cutler during the coaching search. Cutler left Denver the day before Mike Shanahan was fired and did not return until February.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11947197


Hmm so how did Cutler meet with Bowlen if he wasn't in Denver? Jay & Bus lies are starting to come out now.

lex
03-19-2009, 11:05 AM
Way back when this started it was reported that Josh wanted Cassell when this deal came up. We were also told that Xanders nixed the deal. The owner apparently wasn't involved.

That sounds exactly like a tentative new head coach and a hard minded GM to me; exactly what everyone wanted after 14 years of autocracy with Shanny. Now everyone is b****ing because of the uproar. Really, guys; you need to settle down and go on spring vacation so you can cool your guns.

For all the Josh bashers, you realize that the FO has only been trying to improve the team in the only ways they know how. This whole circus is media inspired (when news is few and far between) and worsened by Jay. Remember that he was called a crybaby long before this incident came up. I can recall other team instances like this and usually the players and teams try to keep it in house because nothing is gained by playing the press. With the modern advent of TO, Favre, Ocho and a number of other high profile players playing to the press, we have lost sight of the plan to produce a winning team. Nowadays it seems to be all about the ego. Maybe that will be the downfall of the NFL.


McDaniels ego is a bigger problem. The coach is supposed to be more mature than the players. But regarding what you said about Xanders nixing the deal: that notion has kind of been bulldozed by the Mc********'s constantly maintaining that the deal was going to happen because he is making decisions. Plus, it dovetails with acquisitions like acquiring NEs longsnapper as a firs priority.

lex
03-19-2009, 11:06 AM
"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

Bowlen said Wednesday afternoon that he did not recall meeting with Cutler during the coaching search. Cutler left Denver the day before Mike Shanahan was fired and did not return until February.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11947197


Hmm so how did Cutler meet with Bowlen if he wasn't in Denver? Jay & Bus lies are starting to come out now.

How do you know it wasnt by phone? If I remember correctly, Jay was on vacation when Bowlen fired Shanahan.

HEAV
03-19-2009, 11:27 AM
How do you know it wasnt by phone? If I remember correctly, Jay was on vacation when Bowlen fired Shanahan.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com.



The word met is the past tense of meet. Meet means to come together with especially at a particular time or place.

How could they meet (met) over the phone? That would be a dicussion, and BUS should have said that Cutler and Bowlen dicussed over the phone.

With Jay noting being anywhere near Denver for over a month there no way they met in Denver after the firing.

So either Bus used the wrong term or he's the one lie'n now. Looking at his recent past history I'd go with Bus spinning (lies) to put his client in the best light of public view.

Jay wanted and still wants out. He's lost with out his daddy (Shanny) and his blanket (Bates).

Agent Bus is just looking for angles.

BroncoBuff
03-19-2009, 12:36 PM
This is what its all boiled down to. You basically have four camps on this board.

1. those who are so violently anti-McDaniels that they're looking for any scenario in which he'll be driven out.

2. So anti-Cutler that they'd rather see him traded no matter what at this point.

3. Enablers who are willing to overlook Cutler's irrational stance on this, poor handling of it through the media, etc. because he's the "franchise" and feel that the FO should just kiss his ass and shower him with money.

4. the few people who read whats being reported and use some logic to put the pieces together, seeing the situation for what it is, an over dramatized ordeal that Cutler has perpetuated by going to the media, and that the FO would prefer to squash and keep Cutler, not trade him.

That's a very even-handed nutshell of these positions.

Your'e not by chance a Los Angeles County Superior Court judge, are you?




(Inside lawyers' joke)
.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-19-2009, 12:46 PM
This is what its all boiled down to. You basically have four camps on this board.

1. those who are so violently anti-McDaniels that they're looking for any scenario in which he'll be driven out.

2. So anti-Cutler that they'd rather see him traded no matter what at this point.

3. Enablers who are willing to overlook Cutler's irrational stance on this, poor handling of it through the media, etc. because he's the "franchise" and feel that the FO should just kiss his ass and shower him with money.

4. the few people who read whats being reported and use some logic to put the pieces together, seeing the situation for what it is, an over dramatized ordeal that Cutler has perpetuated by going to the media, and that the FO would prefer to squash and keep Cutler, not trade him.

This is so right-on, it's almost scary. Rep comin'.

baja
03-19-2009, 01:08 PM
This is what its all boiled down to. You basically have four camps on this board.

1. those who are so violently anti-McDaniels that they're looking for any scenario in which he'll be driven out.

2. So anti-Cutler that they'd rather see him traded no matter what at this point.

3. Enablers who are willing to overlook Cutler's irrational stance on this, poor handling of it through the media, etc. because he's the "franchise" and feel that the FO should just kiss his ass and shower him with money.

4. the few people who read whats being reported and use some logic to put the pieces together, seeing the situation for what it is, an over dramatized ordeal that Cutler has perpetuated by going to the media, and that the FO would prefer to squash and keep Cutler, not trade him.

I'm in group 4. Another consideration is Jay's contract He is in no position to bargain

Drek
03-19-2009, 01:24 PM
That's a very even-handed nutshell of these positions.

Your'e not by chance a Los Angeles County Superior Court judge, are you?




(Inside lawyers' joke)
.

Unfortunately he is being irrational.

He's taken the business side of football and made it not only something that detracts from the team on the field, but also a personal issue for him.

I've said it before, what Cutler should have done is what Shannon Sharpe said he did when Shanahan considered trading him. Use it as motivation and then when contract renegotiation time comes, well sorry buddy but you blew your shot for a home town discount, get ready to pay full market value.

Instead he talks about being hurt, not feeling like he can personally trust McDaniels (and presumably Bowlen), airs this through the media, and is now not at a voluntary mini-camp that should be a big stepping stone towards the team learning a new offense.

I know he's probably being told by Cook that this is how he gets leverage, but he's got a three year deal still, he's got no leverage. He needs to man up, prove them wrong, and if he's still so damn hurt in two or three years when the Broncos want to extend him, tell them to shove it up their asses.