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hambone13
03-18-2009, 09:05 AM
This pretty much sums it up for me. I like how the writer words this portion

"Cutler told associates close to the situation he will not return to Denver until the Broncos publicly admit they initiated calls to Tampa Bay to trade him, something McDaniels still denies but Cutler has confirmed to his own satisfaction."

".....Cutler has confirmed this to his own satisfaction." is the point Inferno. We don't need to you start an entire thread asking for proof. The important thing is how Jay feels about the situation.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view/2009_03_18_Josh_McDaniels_flunks_first_test/

Some fellows learn from the mistakes of their mentors. Others duplicate them.

Josh McDaniels appears to be the latter.

Not long after Bill Belichick became head coach of the Cleveland Browns in 1991 he got into a power struggle with starting quarterback Bernie Kosar.

Within two years Belichick had ridden Kosar out of town. While he was right that Kosar was finished, he had no adequate replacement.

Vinny Testaverde [stats] was never the answer anywhere he ever played. Neither were Mike Tomczak, Todd Philcox, Mark Rypien or Eric Zeier. So after four losing seasons in five years Belichick was fired, leaving Cleveland as the second most hated man in Ohio next to owner Art Modell.

Fast forward five years and a wiser Belichick comes to New England and quickly feels about Drew Bledsoe as he did Kosar, but instead of firing him, signs him to a 10-year, $103 million contract. He liked Bledsoe’s style of play no more than Kosar’s but Belichick realized by then what Oakland owner Al Davis used to say was true: “Anybody is replaceable, as long as you have a replacement.”

Davis’ point, which Belichick now understood, was if you don’t have a replacement, especially at quarterback, you wait until you do. For Belichick that came early in his second season when Bledsoe went down with a life-threatening chest injury and Tom Brady [stats] emerged as a clone of Joe Montana. By the next spring, Bledsoe was gone, and Belichick soon after was declared a genius.

Peach-fuzzed Josh McDaniels, the new sheriff in Denver, left New England this winter to become the Broncos head coach and the first thing he did was re-enact Belichick’s fatal mistake in Cleveland. He got in a food fight with his quarterback, Jay Cutler, when he has no replacement for him, and now has a wildfire on his hands. That’s why 32-year-old guys who have never been in charge of a lunch order usually aren’t named CEO of anything.

Cutler told friends McDaniels is a liar for denying having made calls to Tampa Bay to try to trade him in a three-way deal McDaniels erroneously thought would bring him Matt Cassel. If you are going to try that kind of preemptive strike on a quarterback who just threw for 4,200 yards and went to the Pro Bowl with no running game to help him, you better pull the trigger, because if you don’t the gun will blow up in your face.

That is what happened to McDaniels, who looks like a coach who needs training wheels rather than a company car.

Cutler told associates close to the situation he will not return to Denver until the Broncos publicly admit they initiated calls to Tampa Bay to trade him, something McDaniels still denies but Cutler has confirmed to his own satisfaction.

A final face-to-face meeting over the weekend went even worse, and McDaniels apparently is so tone deaf he insists he can’t understand why Cutler looks at him the way Bernie Madoff’s old customers view that scalawag.

Less than two months into his tenure as a head coach, a stubborn kid who doesn’t understand the difference between the words “manage” and “dictate” believes he knows more about quarterbacking than the departed Mike Shanahan, who still believes Cutler will be a star in the NFL.

Because of it, McDaniels left his new team bereft at the most important position in the game.

The Broncos struggled last year not because they had no offense. They struggled because they had no defense. So McDaniels’ first move isn’t to shore up the defense. It’s to tear down the offense. With that plan he always can get a job at AIG if things don’t work out in Denver.

At the end of last season, Broncos owner Pat Bowlen announced “I’m in charge” and said the team was Cutler’s. Barely three months later, no one is in charge, Cutler is demanding a trade, McDaniels botched the situation so badly any trade would be a fire sale and Shanahan is collecting $21 million from the Broncos to watch this mess unfold from his pool deck.

Ever wonder sometimes how guys like Pat Bowlen ever got rich enough to buy a football, let alone a football team?

vancejohnson82
03-18-2009, 09:08 AM
so because Cutler "speculates" McDaniels should admit something that isn't true....he never initiatied these calls, Cutler speculates he did and then threw a hissy fit

you people are absolutely absurd

Kaylore
03-18-2009, 09:09 AM
This article is stupid.

Smiling Assassin27
03-18-2009, 09:10 AM
This article is stupid.

This about sums it up.

baja
03-18-2009, 09:11 AM
With that plan he always can get a job at AIG if things don’t work out in Denver.

LOL

Northman
03-18-2009, 09:11 AM
so because Cutler "speculates" McDaniels should admit something that isn't true....he never initiatied these calls, Cutler speculates he did and then threw a hissy fit

you people are absolutely absurd

QFT

Ha!

I think Cutler started all this because ive told myself that which makes me right.

Rohirrim
03-18-2009, 09:12 AM
Isn't this the main problem - how Jay "feels" about everything? Geez, buy him some roses and take him out to dinner.

tsiguy96
03-18-2009, 09:18 AM
i just think its funny that people defend cutler when he is the one dragging this on so long for quite literally no reason. you can either be a baby and do what hes doing or be a man and realize you are not untradeable and show up for your job. those are his only options, and hes going the easy way out: stomping his feet and crying.

orangemonkey
03-18-2009, 09:18 AM
Written out of Boston no less. LOL.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 09:20 AM
Written out of Boston no less. LOL.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/belichick-fined.JPG

lostknight
03-18-2009, 09:20 AM
Interesting article. Yet another example of McDaniel's following Belichick's lead.

Another important element is that the entire "Cutler is whining" meme is based off of McDaniele's denying that the trade was anything serious. McDaniel's candid line about arriving late to the dance (at which point you already bought the gown and rented the tux) seems to confirm this interpretation.

McDaniels needs to do what is right for the team - and that is awknowledge that yes, he was shopping Cutler around. He also needs to give Cutler some security - a no trade clause if not a extension. Otherwise there will be no end to quarterback controversies the next time the Defense doesn't show up for a game, and cutler forces a interception trying to make up for it.

baja
03-18-2009, 09:22 AM
Isn't this the main problem - how Jay "feels" about everything? Geez, buy him some roses and take him out to dinner.

If you want to know where Jay Cutler is coming from watch his body language, lets hope some team over pays for him.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 09:24 AM
This article is stupid.

I am going to print this article out and pick up my dogs **** with it. So at least it serves a purpose. So Cutler says he has confirmed to his satisfaction that Denver initiated the trades? Alright mister Cutler provide your sources and evidence if you want Denver to admit it. Bet that is met with silence.

hambone13
03-18-2009, 09:24 AM
I just think the article articulates the only way the situation gets resolved. By the coach acknowledging that there were mistakes made and that there is enough evidence to validate he was misleading and at least that he can understand how he could be perceived as being dishonest. His public statements have certainly strongly implied a "change of position" throughout the saga.

worm
03-18-2009, 09:24 AM
I am absolutely shocked that this piece didn't sway opinions of Maners on either side. ::)

People have their minds made up. No opinion piece will change that, just fuel the drama.

Only new information from Pat, Jay or Josh counts at this point.

vancejohnson82
03-18-2009, 09:25 AM
Interesting article. Yet another example of McDaniel's following Belichick's lead.

Another important element is that the entire "Cutler is whining" meme is based off of McDaniele's denying that the trade was anything serious. McDaniel's candid line about arriving late to the dance (at which point you already bought the gown and rented the tux) seems to confirm this interpretation.

McDaniels needs to do what is right for the team - and that is awknowledge that yes, he was shopping Cutler around. He also needs to give Cutler some security - a no trade clause if not a extension. Otherwise there will be no end to quarterback controversies the next time the Defense doesn't show up for a game, and cutler forces a interception trying to make up for it.


you actually do a great job of killing your own points here....you should post mroe often...

1) God forbid he should follow Belicheck's lead....the guy who has been the winningest coach in the NFL this decade and almost completed an undefeated season and has been to the Super Bowl 3 times...not to mention the other accolades he has recieved.....wow, thats a real insult

2) he was doing what was best for the team...by listeing to offers and evaluating his personnel with what he might get in return he was trying to improve the team...if Cutler isnt part of that plan, so be it....we as fans should be rooting for improvement

i cant wait for you to post again....this is great

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 09:26 AM
The Broncos struggled last year not because they had no offense. They struggled because they had no defense. So McDaniels’ first move isn’t to shore up the defense. It’s to tear down the offense. With that plan he always can get a job at AIG if things don’t work out in Denver.

About sums it up. His nepotism will fit well over there too.

hambone13
03-18-2009, 09:27 AM
I am going to print this article out and pick up my dogs **** with it. So at least it serves a purpose. So Cutler says he has confirmed to his satisfaction that Denver initiated the trades? Alright mister Cutler provide your sources and evidence if you want Denver to admit it. Bet that is met with silence.

I don't know anyone that gives up their sources if they ever want them to be valid sources again. Do you really think that McDaniels couldn't be perceived as being dishonest by his public statements alone? If you have some inside scoop, from the very small world that is the NFL that validates that, wouldn't you feel that way?

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 09:33 AM
Jay loses credibility when Bus Cook was asking for permission to shop Jay after Bates left.

hambone13
03-18-2009, 09:40 AM
Jay loses credibility when Bus Cook was asking for permission to shop Jay after Bates left.

Lol, I missed that one....

colonelbeef
03-18-2009, 09:41 AM
I am going to print this article out and pick up my dogs **** with it. So at least it serves a purpose. So Cutler says he has confirmed to his satisfaction that Denver initiated the trades? Alright mister Cutler provide your sources and evidence if you want Denver to admit it. Bet that is met with silence.

Nope, this is just another logical, level headed take on the situation. You and the rest who are repeatedly bashing Cutler and blaming him for this mess simply do not understand what has obviously taken place, so you go for the easy target, the young star QB with the ego

SportinOne
03-18-2009, 09:43 AM
This about sums it up.

Yes. After all, Kaylore said it so it MUST be true, right?

colonelbeef
03-18-2009, 09:46 AM
you actually do a great job of killing your own points here....you should post mroe often...

1) God forbid he should follow Belicheck's lead....the guy who has been the winningest coach in the NFL this decade and almost completed an undefeated season and has been to the Super Bowl 3 times...not to mention the other accolades he has recieved.....wow, thats a real insult



2) he was doing what was best for the team...by listeing to offers and evaluating his personnel with what he might get in return he was trying to improve the team...if Cutler isnt part of that plan, so be it....we as fans should be rooting for improvement


i cant wait for you to post again....this is great

Wait, how many championships did Belichick win in Cleveland (the actual point of the article, not your made up point) Tell me, which super bowls did Belichick win before he had to run back to Bill Parcells with his tail between his legs?


So getting rid of a 25 year old blossoming superstar QB for inferior talent, then getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar and compounding the situation by stammering away like a moron while everybody in the world outside of ApaOps and you can clearly see what he was doing is in the 'best interests of the team'? Really now. Your opinions on how to run any organization, let alone this NFL franchise, are suspect at best I have to say, just like our halftard HC apparently.

I can't wait for you to post again either, too easy

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 09:47 AM
Jay loses credibility when Bus Cook was asking for permission to shop Jay after Bates left.

Ha! Where did you get that one from?

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 09:50 AM
Ha! Where did you get that one from?

Foxsports.com there is a thread on it. Jebus people keep up with the rumors :)

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler%27s-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

vancejohnson82
03-18-2009, 09:50 AM
What has happened here is that Cutler has had his feelings hurt (justified for not) and now HE DOESNT WANT TO PLAY HERE.....

so get over it....or we can fire the coach, pay 3 coaches at one time and put the organization in all sorts of financial trouble

thats a good solution right?? but at least we will have Jay!!!!

Beej
03-18-2009, 09:51 AM
So after four losing seasons in five years Belichick was fired, leaving Cleveland as the second most hated man in Ohio next to owner Art Modell.


Hmm, I would've thought Elway would be in the top two.

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 09:53 AM
If you take that rumor and run with it, why not the rumor (BS Report) that McD initiated the trade talks and tried to do it behind NE's back???

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 09:53 AM
Ha! Where did you get that one from?

I think it came from Mike Florio, which is hilarious.

SportinOne
03-18-2009, 09:55 AM
Nope, this is just another logical, level headed take on the situation. You and the rest who are repeatedly bashing Cutler and blaming him for this mess simply do not understand what has obviously taken place, so you go for the easy target, the young star QB with the ego

It's not their fault, though. I fully understand being team-first, however, McDaniels understands it even better. And he knows how to use it to alienate people as well. McDaniels hasn't wanted Cutler as his quarterback from the start, and if you want proof it's already right there in front of your face. You just refuse to see it. Of course McDaniels is not going to come out publicly and state, "Yes, it's true, I would rather have a Trent Dilfer to run this offense so I know what to expect and it makes my job easier." But what he has done is completely trashed Cutler's image, making the idea of trading Jay much more acceptable to Bronco fans. If he had come in here and just traded Jay away right away, especially for Cassell, he would have a mutiny on his hands. But oh wait, now we are "finding out" that Cutler is immature and not capable of leading a team, so now it's more acceptable to us that he be traded.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 09:58 AM
I think it came from Mike Florio, which is hilarious.

No it didn't actually.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 09:59 AM
If you take that rumor and run with it, why not the rumor (BS Report) that McD initiated the trade talks and tried to do it behind NE's back???

You very well know why I believe its just that BS

fontaine
03-18-2009, 10:11 AM
What has happened here is that Cutler has had his feelings hurt (justified for not) and now HE DOESNT WANT TO PLAY HERE.....

so get over it....or we can fire the coach, pay 3 coaches at one time and put the organization in all sorts of financial trouble

thats a good solution right?? but at least we will have Jay!!!!

Can we please stop with this kind of bullsh*t?

1. Cutler didn't say he doesn't want to play here. He said after the Sunday meeting that he was looking forward to resolving the situation here and likes playing in Denver. Then he said he WILL report to all mandotary camps. It's his agent that is asking for a trade because that's what agents do. Force the issue.

2. What's with all this crap about Cutler's feeling being hurt? It's about how you're respected in your career. If you have a new boss and s/he says they look forward to working with you, are very excited to have you on the team, and then go behind your back and try to send you off to another department somewhere else in the country then double talk when you confront them how would you feel about your working relationship/respect status?

Oh yeah, it doesn't matter because you just got your feelings hurt and need to move on right?

Cutler has been a Bronco far longer than McDaniels and is a big part of the franchise so let's not minimize his importance to the future of this team.

USMCBladerunner
03-18-2009, 10:13 AM
This article really makes a weak argument. The point was to create a parallel between Belichek/Kosar and McDaniels/Cutler. The assertion is that McDaniels recklessly ditched his QB without an adequate replacement ala Belichek in Cleveland. First off, Belichek didn't do anything different with Kosar than he did with Bledsoe. Both played until they were hurt, and their replacements kept the starting job even after their recovery. The difference is that Cleveland had a love affair with Kosar (it was mutual), while Brady made everyone in NE forget about Bledoe in a heartbeat by winning a Super Bowl. Secondly, this is pretty vapid given that what created this mess was an ephemeral/aborted/botched attempt to get Cutler's replacement. The whole premise is false.

The only valid analogy is the apparent sentiments that the respective cities hold for Cutler and Kosar. Even this is hard to understand given that Kosar deliberately treid to manipulate his draft status to get to Cleveland and held nothing but true love for that city, while Cutler quite apparently is angling for a trade out of Denver as hard as he can.

Now we can (and are, in many threads, so don't resume it here) debate the suitability of Cassel as Cutler's replacement, particularly in the context of whatever additional compentation would have come along. But this article is making a false comparison.

vancejohnson82
03-18-2009, 10:14 AM
Can we please stop with this kind of bullsh*t?

1. Cutler didn't say he doesn't want to play here. He said after the Sunday meeting that he was looking forward to resolving the situation here and likes playing in Denver. Then he said he WILL report to all mandotary camps. It's his agent that is asking for a trade because that's what agents do. Force the issue.

2. What's with all this crap about Cutler's feeling being hurt? It's about how you're respected in your career. If you have a new boss and s/he says they look forward to working with you, are very excited to have you on the team, and then go behind your back and try to send you off to another department somewhere else in the country then double talk when you confront them how would you feel about your working relationship/respect status?

Oh yeah, it doesn't matter because you just got your feelings hurt and need to move on right?

Cutler has been a Bronco far longer than McDaniels and is a big part of the franchise so let's not minimize his importance to the future of this team.


you don't address one important part of this....how do we move forward???


according to you, we can McDaniels...and if you truly have an organizational mindset and not just a Cutler fanboy attitude you have to realize that we can't do that..

vancejohnson82
03-18-2009, 10:17 AM
Can we please stop with this kind of bullsh*t?

1. Cutler didn't say he doesn't want to play here. He said after the Sunday meeting that he was looking forward to resolving the situation here and likes playing in Denver. Then he said he WILL report to all mandotary camps. It's his agent that is asking for a trade because that's what agents do. Force the issue.

2. What's with all this crap about Cutler's feeling being hurt? It's about how you're respected in your career. If you have a new boss and s/he says they look forward to working with you, are very excited to have you on the team, and then go behind your back and try to send you off to another department somewhere else in the country then double talk when you confront them how would you feel about your working relationship/respect status?

Oh yeah, it doesn't matter because you just got your feelings hurt and need to move on right?

Cutler has been a Bronco far longer than McDaniels and is a big part of the franchise so let's not minimize his importance to the future of this team.


It's pretty clear that Cutler's feelings have been hurt...don't try and go defend that...he's taking this personally.

And I'll respect what he has done in his career momentarilyl....when I can muster up enough achievements to make a list....

crush17
03-18-2009, 10:18 AM
so because Cutler "speculates" McDaniels should admit something that isn't true....he never initiatied these calls, Cutler speculates he did and then threw a hissy fit

you people are absolutely absurd

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Anyone who honestly thinks that Cutler and Bus Cook are not orchestrating this ENTIRE scenario is just out of their mind.

Take your Cutler colored glasses off and look at it realistically.

LonghornBronco
03-18-2009, 10:20 AM
Great article. McDaniels is a moron! Getting in a pissing match with the most important player on the roster...

skpac1001
03-18-2009, 10:20 AM
Kosar got benched because he would ignore coaches playcalls and would change the plays (like going for long bombs when a safe play was called) and freelance. Parcells wouldn't stand for that, Walsh wouldn't stand for that, and Belicheck didn't stand for that then nor would he now regardless of who he had backing him up. People who think that Belicheck changed drastically and became warm and fuzzy and thats why he wasn't successful with the Browns and was with the Pats are missing the real differences between the situations (the Pats still had the fingerprints of Parcells on the team and were ready for a coach like Belicheck, the Browns were more "star" oriented). Belicheck is just a more innovative clone of Parcells, and the way he and most other Parcells disciples treat players and media is directly out of the Parcells manual.

Even with the Parcells background, I remember the Bledsoe and Lawyer Malloy situations causing many fans and even Patriot players to question if Belicheck was overrating himself and underrating star players.

Gort
03-18-2009, 10:44 AM
how can that be a real article from Boston? they never mention the Red Sox, the Celtics, Nomah, or Big Papi even once. i call shenanigans.

Circle Orange
03-18-2009, 10:48 AM
This article is stupid.

exceedingly so...for the millionth time. Even IF the coach "lied" or "misrepresented?" SO WHAT? Cutler isn't losing money or status. Who has an absolute guarantee at ANY job, whether it's sports, entertainment or whatever? Unless you're self employed! I just don't get all this hype and hysteria. The only reason its a big deal is because Cuts runs his mouth, has an arm with attitude, and resides in a football crazy nation still looking to see #7 in every corner. It's almost becoming a virus. in any other town this story would be a big "so what?" But the media is bored with the NCAA tournament, so they continue to hype this meatless story. :clown:

Circle Orange
03-18-2009, 11:47 AM
Hmm, I would've thought Elway would be in the top two.


With the fans I think its Elway and Jordan, in no particular order. Gotta love those brownies...they stay bitter till the end of time. Hilarious!

And why is everyone sticking their nose in Bronco buisness?

BroncoInferno
03-18-2009, 11:52 AM
".....Cutler has confirmed this to his own satisfaction." is the point Inferno. We don't need to you start an entire thread asking for proof. The important thing is how Jay feels about the situation.

You've got to be kidding? Surely you aren't suggesting that, in order to pacify Jay, the Broncos should admit to lying even if they didn't? I don't care what Jay believes he has "confirmed to his own satisfaction"--that certainly doesn't mean he is right. If he has the goods, let's see it.

barryr
03-18-2009, 11:56 AM
Even if true, Cutler needs McDaniels to admit that to him or he won't play for him? So Cutler really is 10 years old after all.

Drek
03-18-2009, 12:26 PM
So good.

Cutler and his supporters claim McDaniels lied.

McDaniels lays it out in plain english that they never shopped Cutler, that teams called THEM, and upon hearing how lucrative the offers were they went checking on the price of Matt Cassel, to see how significant the profit (in terms of picks) they'd return from effectively swapping the two.

KC and NE were already all but done the deal and McDaniels didn't see enough on the table to try disrupting that deal. End of story.

Jay finds out mere hours later and suddenly he's greatly offended.

Now Cutler fans basically want McDaniels to lie to Cutler and confess to something he didn't do, just to make Cutler "happy". As if anything but a dump truck full of money would solve that.

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 12:37 PM
Wow .... that was an INCREDIBLE article. Very illuminating.

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 12:41 PM
So good.

Cutler and his supporters claim McDaniels lied.

McDaniels lays it out in plain english that they never shopped Cutler, that teams called THEM, and upon hearing how lucrative the offers were they went checking on the price of Matt Cassel, to see how significant the profit (in terms of picks) they'd return from effectively swapping the two.

KC and NE were already all but done the deal and McDaniels didn't see enough on the table to try disrupting that deal. End of story.
C'mon, you're playing word games ... "checking on the price" IS shopping.

"End of story" = Broncos were shopping Cutler. I think that point has moved past opinion and into fact now.
.

broncobum6162
03-18-2009, 12:47 PM
Well, I'd say that pretty much sums it up for me. I've felt this way about the whole situation from the beginning but just didn't know how to put it into words. The only thing its missing is any mention of Bus Cook because I feel he enters equally into this whole mess. There is enough blame in this for all parties involved to share equally and what sucks is us fans have to suffer for everyone's greed, mismanagement, lies, inexperience and whatever else you want to add to this pile of b@#$sh#$%t!

This pretty much sums it up for me. I like how the writer words this portion

"Cutler told associates close to the situation he will not return to Denver until the Broncos publicly admit they initiated calls to Tampa Bay to trade him, something McDaniels still denies but Cutler has confirmed to his own satisfaction."

".....Cutler has confirmed this to his own satisfaction." is the point Inferno. We don't need to you start an entire thread asking for proof. The important thing is how Jay feels about the situation.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view/2009_03_18_Josh_McDaniels_flunks_first_test/

Some fellows learn from the mistakes of their mentors. Others duplicate them.

Josh McDaniels appears to be the latter.

Not long after Bill Belichick became head coach of the Cleveland Browns in 1991 he got into a power struggle with starting quarterback Bernie Kosar.

Within two years Belichick had ridden Kosar out of town. While he was right that Kosar was finished, he had no adequate replacement.

Vinny Testaverde [stats] was never the answer anywhere he ever played. Neither were Mike Tomczak, Todd Philcox, Mark Rypien or Eric Zeier. So after four losing seasons in five years Belichick was fired, leaving Cleveland as the second most hated man in Ohio next to owner Art Modell.

Fast forward five years and a wiser Belichick comes to New England and quickly feels about Drew Bledsoe as he did Kosar, but instead of firing him, signs him to a 10-year, $103 million contract. He liked Bledsoe’s style of play no more than Kosar’s but Belichick realized by then what Oakland owner Al Davis used to say was true: “Anybody is replaceable, as long as you have a replacement.”

Davis’ point, which Belichick now understood, was if you don’t have a replacement, especially at quarterback, you wait until you do. For Belichick that came early in his second season when Bledsoe went down with a life-threatening chest injury and Tom Brady [stats] emerged as a clone of Joe Montana. By the next spring, Bledsoe was gone, and Belichick soon after was declared a genius.

Peach-fuzzed Josh McDaniels, the new sheriff in Denver, left New England this winter to become the Broncos head coach and the first thing he did was re-enact Belichick’s fatal mistake in Cleveland. He got in a food fight with his quarterback, Jay Cutler, when he has no replacement for him, and now has a wildfire on his hands. That’s why 32-year-old guys who have never been in charge of a lunch order usually aren’t named CEO of anything.

Cutler told friends McDaniels is a liar for denying having made calls to Tampa Bay to try to trade him in a three-way deal McDaniels erroneously thought would bring him Matt Cassel. If you are going to try that kind of preemptive strike on a quarterback who just threw for 4,200 yards and went to the Pro Bowl with no running game to help him, you better pull the trigger, because if you don’t the gun will blow up in your face.

That is what happened to McDaniels, who looks like a coach who needs training wheels rather than a company car.

Cutler told associates close to the situation he will not return to Denver until the Broncos publicly admit they initiated calls to Tampa Bay to trade him, something McDaniels still denies but Cutler has confirmed to his own satisfaction.

A final face-to-face meeting over the weekend went even worse, and McDaniels apparently is so tone deaf he insists he can’t understand why Cutler looks at him the way Bernie Madoff’s old customers view that scalawag.

Less than two months into his tenure as a head coach, a stubborn kid who doesn’t understand the difference between the words “manage” and “dictate” believes he knows more about quarterbacking than the departed Mike Shanahan, who still believes Cutler will be a star in the NFL.

Because of it, McDaniels left his new team bereft at the most important position in the game.

The Broncos struggled last year not because they had no offense. They struggled because they had no defense. So McDaniels’ first move isn’t to shore up the defense. It’s to tear down the offense. With that plan he always can get a job at AIG if things don’t work out in Denver.

At the end of last season, Broncos owner Pat Bowlen announced “I’m in charge” and said the team was Cutler’s. Barely three months later, no one is in charge, Cutler is demanding a trade, McDaniels botched the situation so badly any trade would be a fire sale and Shanahan is collecting $21 million from the Broncos to watch this mess unfold from his pool deck.

Ever wonder sometimes how guys like Pat Bowlen ever got rich enough to buy a football, let alone a football team?

fontaine
03-18-2009, 01:00 PM
you don't address one important part of this....how do we move forward???


according to you, we can McDaniels...and if you truly have an organizational mindset and not just a Cutler fanboy attitude you have to realize that we can't do that..

When did I ever say McDaniels should be fired. That's the last thing that needs to happen right now.

What I clearly said is that there's no point minimizing Cutler's achievements and potential and start taking sides on this. I'm not taking any sides here because I think the behaviour of both sides is ridiculous.

skpac1001
03-18-2009, 01:12 PM
When did I ever say McDaniels should be fired. That's the last thing that needs to happen right now.

What I clearly said is that there's no point minimizing Cutler's achievements and potential and start taking sides on this. I'm not taking any sides here because I think the behaviour of both sides is ridiculous.

This is probably the point I am at now. I was more upset before, but now I think things are going to begin to settle down and nothing is really going to happen for a month, then Cutler will show up for minicamp, time will go by and he will end up starting the season for us. I think those who get carried away hating one side or the other will be in an awkward position in a few months when they put this behind them. Either that or I will be in an awkward position if Cutler is traded next week.

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 02:11 PM
This article is stupid.

STupid? You can do better than that ...

I think these quotes sum up the entire fiasco perfectly:

Peach-fuzzed Josh McDaniels, the new sheriff in Denver, left New England this winter to become the Broncos head coach and the first thing he did was re-enact Belichick’s fatal mistake in Cleveland. He got in a food fight with his quarterback, Jay Cutler, when he has no replacement for him, and now has a wildfire on his hands. That’s why 32-year-old guys who have never been in charge of a lunch order usually aren’t named CEO of anything.

Cutler told friends McDaniels is a liar for denying having made calls to Tampa Bay to try to trade him in a three-way deal McDaniels erroneously thought would bring him Matt Cassel. If you are going to try that kind of preemptive strike on a quarterback who just threw for 4,200 yards and went to the Pro Bowl with no running game to help him, you better pull the trigger, because if you don’t the gun will blow up in your face.

And indeed it did blow up in his face.

Just heard on ESPN: Over the past TWO years, Jay Cutler has the NFL's 2nd best QB rating in the 4th quarter.

Think about that.

.

Drek
03-18-2009, 02:16 PM
C'mon, you're playing word games ... "checking on the price" IS shopping.

"End of story" = Broncos were shopping Cutler. I think that point has moved past opinion and into fact now.
.

I'm not playing word games at all. He didn't check on the price of Cutler, he was told that when teams started calling him.

If someone called you up today and said "hey Buff, I want your house. How does 25% over market value sound to you?" I'm sure you'd be interested right? But you aren't actually shopping your house.

And before you went and sold your house you'd probably check the market to see what kind of replacement house you could get. Because if your local neighborhood, where you want to stay, happens to have 30% house inflation over market value its probably not the best idea to sell yours at only 25%.

Some team called and offered a ton of picks for Cutler. Obviously something with multiple first day picks, at least one of them being a first rounder. So McDaniels goes looking to see how much it'll cost him to keep at least a solid QB in town, and what kind of "profit" he'd be generating from the move.

He said it himself though, after checking up with the Pats they felt like they were too late to the dance and it died there. Someone on the other side of these discussions leaked it to the media and this whole kerfuffle started.

I'm still sitting at about 50/50 that the only reason other teams even called is because Bus Cook mentioned to a few "golf buddies" who happen to be in the Bucs, Lions, etc. FOs that an "unnamed Denver based client" wasn't real happy and that he was very gettable for the right package. Even if that isn't what lead to the calls, its pretty much completely unsubstantiated (except in Cutler's delusions) that McDaniels actively shopped him at any point.

There are other QBs in this league besides Cutler and Cassel. We already have a fairly solid one in Chris Simms under contract. If McDaniels had genuinely shopped Cutler before he'd damn sure still be shopping him now that he's got Simms signed and a pissy Cutler. But he's not. Instead he's spending a whole lot of his time trying to get Cutler to grow a pair and sit down with him man to man, sans Cook and Xanders, to talk this out.

As for your theory that McDaniels has too much power in the organization, go read his interview with Peter King. He's getting a lot of input on the players they target, sure, but as soon as Cutler made it known he was bringing Cook to the meeting McDaniels had to call in Xanders. He isn't a Shanahan level power figure, he just gets the kind of input on what players he wants most HCs in the league now get. Xanders will be running the financials of the team and dealing with agents, and the two will come together when its time to make big decisions, with Bowlen looking over both their shoulders.

Thats the new power structure in Denver, a very Bowlen present one. I said it when we fired Shanahan, Bowlen wants to make the NFL HOF as an owner and the only way he'll do that is if he becomes a more active face of the franchise.

fontaine
03-18-2009, 02:50 PM
This is probably the point I am at now. I was more upset before, but now I think things are going to begin to settle down and nothing is really going to happen for a month, then Cutler will show up for minicamp, time will go by and he will end up starting the season for us. I think those who get carried away hating one side or the other will be in an awkward position in a few months when they put this behind them. Either that or I will be in an awkward position if Cutler is traded next week.

Cutler isn't going anywhere. There's simply no leverage from his side because he has three years left on his contract and the Broncos are not going to trade away the cornerstone of their team and the offense they've built around him.

Especially now that his value has really dropped because teams know they're in the driving seat if trade talks even come up with Jay.

Jay has said he's going to report to mandatory camps and once he sits down with the coaches and rest of the guys it'll be business as usual.

I would be happy if there McDaniels just shows some maturity and puts a stop to releasing any more info to the media about this as it will only result in giving Bus Cook more ammo. Let the media frenzy die down and sooner or later the two will talk it out as Bus Cook won't be following Cutler to every practice, training session.

Rock Chalk
03-18-2009, 02:56 PM
I took a dump today and my turd looked like Tom Brady.

Rock Chalk
03-18-2009, 02:57 PM
STupid? You can do better than that ...

I think these quotes sum up the entire fiasco perfectly:



And indeed it did blow up in his face.

Just heard on ESPN: Over the past TWO years, Jay Cutler has the NFL's 2nd best QB rating in the 4th quarter.

Think about that.

.


To bad his 1st through 3rd QB ratings are so crappy that Denver is too far behind to catch up most of the time.

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 04:03 PM
If someone called you up today and said "hey Buff, I want your house. How does 25% over market value sound to you?" I'm sure you'd be interested right? But you aren't actually shopping your house. And before you went and sold your house you'd probably check the market to see what kind of replacement house you could get.

Some team called and offered a ton of picks for Cutler. Obviously something with multiple first day picks, at least one of them being a first rounder. So McDaniels goes looking to see how much it'll cost him to keep at least a solid QB in town, and what kind of "profit" he'd be generating from the move.
We disagree on what "shopping" means. The blue quotes above are when I believe the situation moves from "passive listener" and into "active shopper."


I'm still sitting at about 50/50 that the only reason other teams even called is because Bus Cook mentioned to a few "golf buddies" who happen to be in the Bucs, Lions, etc.
That is 100% speculation on your part. It might be true, but it is all speculation. And not coincidentally, it's speculation that agrees with your opinion on this, that Jay is the problem. I agree with Michael Smith of ESPN who said: "If you believe Denver was not shopping Jay, but rather that three or four teams just happened to call them simulataneously with trade offers for their star quarterback, then I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn."


Even if that isn't what lead to the calls, its pretty much completely unsubstantiated (except in Cutler's delusions) that McDaniels actively shopped him at any point.

Again we disagree. I think whether Josh was "actively involved" in trade talks for Jay has passed from the opinion stage to the fact stage.


If McDaniels had genuinely shopped Cutler before he'd damn sure still be shopping him now that he's got Simms signed and a pissy Cutler. But he's not. Instead he's spending a whole lot of his time trying to get Cutler to grow a pair and sit down with him man to man, sans Cook and Xanders, to talk this out.
Well, I'm 99% sure you're wrong there. That's a non-denila denial. In reality, there are lots of active discussions going on right now, Vikings, Redskins, Bears, Browns. I can't believe everything we're hearing is wrong, John Clayton is usually very conservative in what he reports, and he says the phones are buzzing all over now because it appears it will take three teams to make this deal.

And you undermine another of your points, to wit: If you believe Xanders is a REAL GEM, then why would you say JOSH is not shopping Jay, and Jay should "sit down and talk" to JOSH? It seems you know on some level that Josh is in charge here.

As for your theory that McDaniels has too much power in the organization, go read his interview with Peter King. He's getting a lot of input on the players they target, sure, but as soon as Cutler made it known he was bringing Cook to the meeting McDaniels had to call in Xanders. He isn't a Shanahan level power figure, he just gets the kind of input on what players he wants most HCs in the league now get. Xanders will be running the financials of the team and dealing with agents, and the two will come together when its time to make big decisions, with Bowlen looking over both their shoulders.

Again, if Josh is just the coach (as it should be), then why does Jay have to talk to him? It's not a coaching issue here, it's a trade/personnel issue. I think, and based on your quotes it sounds like you also agree on some level, that Josh is entirely in charge here.

At this point, Xanders is Ted Sundquist at best. If Xanders truly had an ounce of power, he would be out front in this and would have called a presser to say such. XANDERS would be the face of this thing. Instead, every single report, story, discussion, interview references Josh and Josh only ... all the commentators, John Clayton, Mortenen, Sharpe, Schlereth, Dilfer, even Herm Edwards talk about this entirely in Josh terms. Herm Edwards called this a "rookie mistake" by Josh in handling sensitive personnel issues. Which is my position exactly. Xanders is rarely if ever mentioned, and that's a big problem here for me.

I think you're mssing some basic buildiong blocks here ... it was JOSH meeting with Jay regarding whether Jay was to be traded. Your own post admits such ... Josh brought Xander in, not the other way around, as it should be with personnel matters.

Some people here are so young, they've only known paper-pushing GMs in Denver like John Beake and Ted Sundquist. But make no mistake, the traditional NFL team GM is a VERY powerful figure, often with the power to hire and fire the head coach. The late George Young of the Giants is the perfect example ... his powers were larger even than Bill Parcells. I think that's when Bill coined the phrase, "if you want me to cook the dinner, I should be able to shop for the groceries."

When you follow this structure - the traditional structure - coaches are free to be the "good cop," they can be seen as "a players' coach." Had Xanders been the face of this, he could be the "bad cop."
.

Drek
03-18-2009, 05:30 PM
We disagree on what "shopping" means. The blue quotes above are when I believe the situation moves from "passive listener" and into "active shopper."
So getting a full view of your options is shopping?

I thought shopping started when you actively pursued a buyer, but then I guess my definition of shopping is too literal.

That is 100% speculation on your part. It might be true, but it is all speculation. And not coincidentally, it's speculation that agrees with your opinion on this, that Jay is the problem. I agree with Michael Smith of ESPN who said: "If you believe Denver was not shopping Jay, but rather that three or four teams just happened to call them simulataneously with trade offers for their star quarterback, then I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn."
It is, but then so is everything ESPN is spreading. I don't think its a coincidence that they're strongly on the Cutler/Cook side of things, despite very tentative and vague "sources" and also just so happen to be courting Cook's premier client, Brett Favre, to join their staff of NFL commentators.

In short, I trust ESPN's reporting only slightly more than not at all. They're wrong repeatedly, they lie repeatedly, and they steal other reporters breaks and claim them as their own repeatedly. They have the journalistic integrity of PFT at this point.

Meanwhile Adam Shefter, a paragon of journalistic integrity ever since he worked in Denver, says that McDaniels never actively shopped Cutler.

Well, I'm 99% sure you're wrong there. That's a non-denila denial. In reality, there are lots of active discussions going on right now, Vikings, Redskins, Bears, Browns. I can't believe everything we're hearing is wrong, John Clayton is usually very conservative in what he reports, and he says the phones are buzzing all over now because it appears it will take three teams to make this deal.
Again referencing ESPN, who has an obvious money trail linked to one side of this argument.

Also, about 95% of the trade rumors originate on talk radio and then get perpetuated as something with some teeth to it. Hell, probably 3/4ths of the rumors that pop up on this site I hear floated on the radio before I see them on the Mane.

And you undermine another of your points, to wit: If you believe Xanders is a REAL GEM, then why would you say JOSH is not shopping Jay, and Jay should "sit down and talk" to JOSH? It seems you know on some level that Josh is in charge here.
Because Josh gets to shop for the groceries to a large degree. I'd imagine he'd have even more input when it pertains to QB decisions, what with his career history.



Again, if Josh is just the coach (as it should be), then why does Jay have to talk to him? It's not a coaching issue here, it's a trade/personnel issue. I think, and based on your quotes it sounds like you also agree on some level, that Josh is entirely in charge here.
Jay is the one who's made this about Josh in his comments, but then in his actions its clearly directed towards the entire organization. He claims McDaniels lied to him (in fact he started out saying the whole FO did, but when he didn't have a tenuous connection there he shortened it to Josh only) but yet he didn't return calls from Bowlen and has requested a trade from the organization. He's made it organizational but he's framing it as him v. Josh so that the fan base doesn't turn on him. Its a well orchestrated PR move and I got to give Cook props, he sure struck while the iron was hot. But thats all it is and the actions they've taken speak contrary to what they claim.

At this point, Xanders is Ted Sundquist at best. If Xanders truly had an ounce of power, he would be out front in this and would have called a presser to say such. XANDERS would be the face of this thing. Instead, every single report, story, discussion, interview references Josh and Josh only ... all the commentators, John Clayton, Mortenen, Sharpe, Schlereth, Dilfer, even Herm Edwards talk about this entirely in Josh terms. Herm Edwards called this a "rookie mistake" by Josh in handling sensitive personnel issues. Which is my position exactly. Xanders is rarely if ever mentioned, and that's a big problem here for me.
I'd say its more like a Pioli/Belichick structure. McDaniels will guide the direction of personnel moves and help with the targeting, but Xanders will run the FO and scouting staff, make contract decisions, and be the primary initial contact for other NFL FOs.

I think you're mssing some basic buildiong blocks here ... it was JOSH meeting with Jay regarding whether Jay was to be traded. Your own post admits such ... Josh brought Xander in, not the other way around, as it should be with personnel matters.McDaniels own words said that he expected the meeting to be just him and Jay, but that when Cook showed up he felt obligated to bring Xanders in, since dealing with agents isn't his job.

He's also still waiting for the one on one he wants with Jay, FYI.

Some people here are so young, they've only known paper-pushing GMs in Denver like John Beake and Ted Sundquist. But make no mistake, the traditional NFL team GM is a VERY powerful figure, often with the power to hire and fire the head coach. The late George Young of the Giants is the perfect example ... his powers were larger even than Bill Parcells. I think that's when Bill coined the phrase, "if you want me to cook the dinner, I should be able to shop for the groceries."

When you follow this structure - the traditional structure - coaches are free to be the "good cop," they can be seen as "a players' coach." Had Xanders been the face of this, he could be the "bad cop."
.

But that isn't the standard of NFL front offices anymore. New England doesn't do that, the Steelers have a much more even distribution of power and they brought in a HC with less coordinator experience or success than McDaniels.

Hell, the Cardinals give more power than that to Wisenhunt, the Texans to Kubiak, and it goes on down the line.

The distribution is at least 50/50 now and the teams with the new system are on average more successful. Makes sense since the HC obviously has a better idea as to what his organization needs.

The big change we'll see in Denver is that it will no longer be Mike Shanahan's franchise paid for with Pat Bowlen's checking account. Bowlen is going to be the #1 figure from here on out. We'll have a power structure not unlike the Patriots where McDaniels will be the #1 employee and Xanders a close, but still subordinate #2, but neither one of them or even the two combined for that matter will have nearly the authority Shanahan had. This is going to actually be Pat Bowlen's team and he's going to be involved in the day to day operations. Probably not like an Al Davis or Jerry Jones, but at least as much as a Bob Kraft, probably more.

If Jay Cutler gets traded it'll happen for one of two reasons. Cutler/Cook absolutely refuse to let McDaniels have a one on one with Cutler (at which I think the two of them will quite easily resolve this) or Bowlen is going to force the call to ship him out from on high. I don't see any indications with how they're currently handling this that says McDaniels or Xanders don't want Jay to stay a Bronco.

The biggest problem for Cutler supporters here is that Bowlen basically stated in firing Shanahan that he wasn't going to have someone else tell him how to run his team anymore, and Cutler basically goes and tries to do just that only a few months later. The old man is fired up on something and NOW of all times Cutler chooses to start ****.

DBBBSBS
03-18-2009, 05:30 PM
Interesting article. Yet another example of McDaniel's following Belichick's lead.

Another important element is that the entire "Cutler is whining" meme is based off of McDaniele's denying that the trade was anything serious. McDaniel's candid line about arriving late to the dance (at which point you already bought the gown and rented the tux) seems to confirm this interpretation.

McDaniels needs to do what is right for the team - and that is awknowledge that yes, he was shopping Cutler around. He also needs to give Cutler some security - a no trade clause if not a extension. Otherwise there will be no end to quarterback controversies the next time the Defense doesn't show up for a game, and cutler forces a interception trying to make up for it.

Can you please let us know what was so nice in this stupid article ?

Sir Mawn
03-18-2009, 08:03 PM
Two great quotes from the article that summarize my overall feeling on McDaniels, regardless of who made what call and who's feelings were hurt:

"Less than two months into his tenure as a head coach, a stubborn kid who doesn’t understand the difference between the words “manage” and “dictate” believes he knows more about quarterbacking than the departed Mike Shanahan, who still believes Cutler will be a star in the NFL"

"At the end of last season, Broncos owner Pat Bowlen announced “I’m in charge” and said the team was Cutler’s. Barely three months later, no one is in charge, Cutler is demanding a trade, McDaniels botched the situation so badly any trade would be a fire sale and Shanahan is collecting $21 million from the Broncos to watch this mess unfold from his pool deck."

The only reason McDaniels and his oversized ego didn't fire Bobby Turner is because he has no clue as to what an NFL RB should look like. The guy thinks he can win with a below average QB because he's such an offensive genius. What's next? Talking Danny Wuerffel out of retirement?

And by the way, Cutler will be a star in the NFL. Thanks to McDaniels, he won't be OUR star, apparently.

watermock
03-18-2009, 08:06 PM
Who made Josh the GM? Does Josh have the powers that Shanny did? I sure hope not, but it appears just that.

Why did the Goodmans get fired?

Why can't people see the conflict of interest here with "His QB, His System" clouding his appraisal of Cassells worth? Or Cutlers?

Sir Mawn
03-18-2009, 08:10 PM
Speaking of great quotes.. how about this gem from our owner (not in the article but quite relevant to the topic)

"I really have had no discussion with Jay or the agent. Mike was fired right after the season. At that point, there was no need to have a discussion with Jay. Now, actually, to be fair, I don't think I had that discussion. I don't recall it. I know I'm getting up there in age, and I am not sure of that discussion."

ol number 7
03-18-2009, 08:16 PM
I am going to print this article out and pick up my dogs **** with it. So at least it serves a purpose. So Cutler says he has confirmed to his satisfaction that Denver initiated the trades? Alright mister Cutler provide your sources and evidence if you want Denver to admit it. Bet that is met with silence.

We all know his source Bus Cook .

Evidence : Bus said

Conclusion: Jay is a child and Rich Tuten should make him push that sled down I-25 from that big house for sale to say the top of Pikes Peak.

hambone13
03-18-2009, 08:33 PM
You've got to be kidding? Surely you aren't suggesting that, in order to pacify Jay, the Broncos should admit to lying even if they didn't? I don't care what Jay believes he has "confirmed to his own satisfaction"--that certainly doesn't mean he is right. If he has the goods, let's see it.

So if your live-in partner (I say this because I'm not sure if you're gay or not), who you trust, tells you something or a series of things and then behaves differently by doing something that proves otherwise (such as getting caught sucking face with your best friend) that leads you to BELIEVE they either slept together or that they're giving it some considerable thought, you'd still want to take her on the 3 year trip around the world that you just spent a fortune on? Or, would you like some assurances that there is in fact something there to justify your emotional and professional investment?

hambone13
03-18-2009, 08:40 PM
So good.

Cutler and his supporters claim McDaniels lied.

McDaniels lays it out in plain english that they never shopped Cutler, that teams called THEM, and upon hearing how lucrative the offers were they went checking on the price of Matt Cassel, to see how significant the profit (in terms of picks) they'd return from effectively swapping the two.

KC and NE were already all but done the deal and McDaniels didn't see enough on the table to try disrupting that deal. End of story.

Jay finds out mere hours later and suddenly he's greatly offended.

Now Cutler fans basically want McDaniels to lie to Cutler and confess to something he didn't do, just to make Cutler "happy". As if anything but a dump truck full of money would solve that.

The definition of a lie differs from family to family. My kids are lying if they're not telling me the whole truth. You're kids might only be lying if they're just blatantly through a thorough evaluation of the facts are proven to tell you something that wasn't a fact.

hambone13
03-18-2009, 08:45 PM
Cutler isn't going anywhere. There's simply no leverage from his side because he has three years left on his contract and the Broncos are not going to trade away the cornerstone of their team and the offense they've built around him.

Especially now that his value has really dropped because teams know they're in the driving seat if trade talks even come up with Jay.

Jay has said he's going to report to mandatory camps and once he sits down with the coaches and rest of the guys it'll be business as usual.

I would be happy if there McDaniels just shows some maturity and puts a stop to releasing any more info to the media about this as it will only result in giving Bus Cook more ammo. Let the media frenzy die down and sooner or later the two will talk it out as Bus Cook won't be following Cutler to every practice, training session.

I would agree with you if there was an OC and a QB coach separating them on a day to day basis. There's no way these guys work together effectively unless McD sucks it up and kisses some ass....

BroncoInferno
03-18-2009, 08:48 PM
So if your live-in partner (I say this because I'm not sure if you're gay or not), who you trust, tells you something or a series of things and then behaves differently by doing something that proves otherwise (such as getting caught sucking face with your best friend) that leads you to BELIEVE they either slept together or that they're giving it some considerable thought, you'd still want to take her on the 3 year trip around the world that you just spent a fortune on? Or, would you like some assurances that there is in fact something there to justify your emotional and professional investment?

I certainly wouldn't admit to sleeping with someone if I didn't. And if this significant other (which would be a woman, for the record--not there's anything wrong with other alternative lifestyles ;D) continued to insist that she "knew I had slept with someone to her satisfaction" when, in fact, I had not, I would eventually get fed up with the accusations and toss her to the curb.

Dedhed
03-18-2009, 08:53 PM
About sums it up. His nepotism will fit well over there too.
Do you even know what nepotism means?

Broncos4tw
03-18-2009, 08:56 PM
I am kind of amazed that people can't see what McD did. Cutler doesn't need proof if any sort, it's obvious as hell that McD, who has tried to pry and tear about the Pats team to get players to go with him, initiated this.

If it had been ANY other QB in the league, perhaps I could believe he did not initiate it. But this could not possibly be more obvious than it is. This isn't the x-files, nor a supreme court case. It's a wet-behind-the-ears, young head coach, trying to get his 'system' around him, either because he truly feels it will succeed, or because he needs to be in a comfort zone here. Perhaps a bit of both.

But it was a stupid move — the writer is spot on when he says that a team is almost dead last in the league on defense, did NOT need to even remotely consider trading your QB. Cutler while some may hate his braggart attitude, or his at time wild (farve-essque) play, is not minced gizzard. He is a sharp player. Coaches and QBs alike have said this guy has something special. He could be very great. And we traded him away for what?

Oh well.. guess it's 'business' if the front office does stupid crap, but if Jay wants some assurance he isn't going to be kicked to the curb, he is 'immature.' Awesome logic!

spdirty
03-18-2009, 08:58 PM
There is a very very very very simple solution to all of this. Very easy. Very very very very very simple.

Just go to Nashville and tell Jay you are sorry and Jay will forgive you...so long as you bring the extension with you. Broncos have their quarterback, quarterback is a "happy camper," and now all of a sudden wants to be here, conflict is over, dont have to worry about who "the replacement" is going to be, and now that the Dove Valley brain trust has been able to avoid a mistake which sets the place back 10 years easily and makes the Broncos the laughingstock of the league for years to come, we can now place our focus on the defense.



Im not a Harvard (or college) educated man, but why is that so damn hard to figure out?

Oh yeah.......egos. Bitches cannot put their egos aside long enough to do what is right for the team.

BroncoInferno
03-18-2009, 08:59 PM
I am kind of amazed that people can't see what McD did. Cutler doesn't need proof if any sort, it's obvious as hell that McD, who has tried to pry and tear about the Pats team to get players to go with him, initiated this.

If it had been ANY other QB in the league, perhaps I could believe he did not initiate it. But this could not possibly be more obvious than it is. This isn't the x-files, nor a supreme court case. It's a wet-behind-the-ears, young head coach, trying to get his 'system' around him, either because he truly feels it will succeed, or because he needs to be in a comfort zone here. Perhaps a bit of both.

But it was a stupid move — the writer is spot on when he says that a team is almost dead last in the league on defense, did NOT need to even remotely consider trading your QB. Cutler while some may hate his braggart attitude, or his at time wild (farve-essque) play, is not minced gizzard. He is a sharp player. Coaches and QBs alike have said this guy has something special. He could be very great. And we traded him away for what?

Oh well.. guess it's 'business' if the front office does stupid crap, but if Jay wants some assurance he isn't going to be kicked to the curb, he is 'immature.' Awesome logic!

Thanks for cracking the case, Matlock. You've convinced me.

hambone13
03-18-2009, 09:03 PM
I certainly wouldn't admit to sleeping with someone if I didn't. And if this significant other (which would be a woman, for the record--not there's anything wrong with other alternative lifestyles ;D) continued to insist that she "knew I had slept with someone to her satisfaction" when, in fact, I had not, I would eventually get fed up with the accusations and toss her to the curb.

You can't play both while and answering the hypothetical question. It's not you, who's possibly sneaking around, it's you who saw your partner sucking face and through a series of deductions and information from your own private sources, which have lead you to believe there is a strong possibility that they are sleeping around or at least seriously considering it.

There's nothing to prove your not gay BTW. Where's the proof? Maybe this is why she's sucking face with your best friend? It didn't mean anything though, it was just an extended peck......you shouldn't be upset, just pick up the tickets and pick them up at 7:00 on Friday night like you planned? :twokisses

wandlc
03-18-2009, 09:08 PM
Foxsports.com there is a thread on it. Jebus people keep up with the rumors :)

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler%27s-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

""But I never requested a trade for Jay then," Cook said. "That is simply not true." http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f54761&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

wandlc
03-18-2009, 09:11 PM
Speaking of great quotes.. how about this gem from our owner (not in the article but quite relevant to the topic)

And this from his press conference on firing Shanahan:

"11:22: Bowlen said he had a meaningful conversation with Jay Cutler on Wednesday morning. "I've talked to Jay Cutler this morning and I did not get any negative feedback from him. Obviously Jay is the man around here now, so I will be talking to him."

BroncoInferno
03-18-2009, 09:14 PM
You can't play both while and answering the hypothetical question. It's not you, who's possibly sneaking around, it's you who saw your partner sucking face and through a series of deductions and information from your own private sources, which have lead you to believe there is a strong possibility that they are sleeping around or at least seriously considering it.

First of all, I'd alter your analogy a bit. As you know, I don't believe anyone has successfully discredited McDaniels version of events. As such, I would liken what occurred to a bit of across the room flirting rather than an all out make out session. That being the case, if you are placing me in the Cutler role, I would probably be a bit peeved for a couple of days, maybe even resorting to the silent treatment, but after that brief (and understandable) tantrum I would be ready to move on, though I might keep my eye out for any other "signs."

There's nothing to prove your not gay BTW. Where's the proof? Maybe this is why she's sucking face with your best friend? It didn't mean anything though, it was just an extended peck......you shouldn't be upset, just pick up the tickets and pick them up at 7:00 on Friday night like you planned? :twokisses

Ah, but it is up to you, as the claimant, to prove my gaydom. Where are your pictures, big boy? ;D

hambone13
03-18-2009, 09:41 PM
First of all, I'd alter your analogy a bit. As you know, I don't believe anyone has successfully discredited McDaniels version of events. As such, I would liken what occurred to a bit of across the room flirting rather than an all out make out session. That being the case, if you are placing me in the Cutler role, I would probably be a bit peeved for a couple of days, maybe even resorting to the silent treatment, but after that brief (and understandable) tantrum I would be ready to move on, though I might keep my eye out for any other "signs."



Ah, but it is up to you, as the claimant, to prove my gaydom. Where are your pictures, big boy? ;D

If I'd suggested that you caught them in bed with "full on penetration", I'd give you the alteration but that's not what I provided. I gave you a middle of the road analogy that equates to "not sleeping with but seriously considering" option. I don't think that's deniable given Josh has actually stated that he was "late to the dance" for the trade.

I think the fact that you would only tantrum for a couple of days and still pick "your girlfriend" up at the predetermined time proves that you are very likely gay, if it's a girl because you're not emotional enough about it!

SoCalBronco
03-18-2009, 11:18 PM
Top notch article. Thanks for posting it.

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 11:29 PM
you actually do a great job of killing your own points here....you should post mroe often...

1) God forbid he should follow Belicheck's lead....the guy who has been the winningest coach in the NFL this decade and almost completed an undefeated season and has been to the Super Bowl 3 times...not to mention the other accolades he has recieved.....wow, thats a real insult

Umm... you did read the article right? The point the guy you quoted was making is that Bilicheck was a FAILURE in his first coaching job. Bilicheck ran his QB out of town and ended up becoming one of the most hated men in Ohio. The biggest difference here is that McDaniels is going to be getting rid of a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB, not an aging veteran like Bill did. So... by following Bilicheck's lead, the point is that McDaniels is making the same mistakes that caused Bilicheck's failure in his first coaching job... meaning if he keeps following the lead he will "fail" here as well. That's the point that was being made. It's like saying lets hope he starts his career like Mike Shanahan... oh wait he was fired from the Raiders before he had success with the Broncos... etc etc.

hambone13
03-18-2009, 11:49 PM
Umm... you did read the article right? The point the guy you quoted was making is that Bilicheck was a FAILURE in his first coaching job. Bilicheck ran his QB out of town and ended up becoming one of the most hated men in Ohio. The biggest difference here is that McDaniels is going to be getting rid of a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB, not an aging veteran like Bill did. So... by following Bilicheck's lead, the point is that McDaniels is making the same mistakes that caused Bilicheck's failure in his first coaching job... meaning if he keeps following the lead he will "fail" here as well. That's the point that was being made. It's like saying lets hope he starts his career like Mike Shanahan... oh wait he was fired from the Raiders before he had success with the Broncos... etc etc.

It's funny how much this article has been over analyzed to be anything other than exactly what you mention here and how I took it. The arm chair historians need to start a blog if they're that knowledgeable and get published themselves. I merely posted this because it's a solid representation of a young coach making an immature move, just like his previous boss. If he doesn't show some humility and his capacity to build a initial relationship, let alone repair a broken one and manage it, we're lookin' like the Browns for the next 4-7 years unless we're lucky.

BroncoBuff
03-19-2009, 12:45 AM
Top notch article.This article is stupid.

Hmmm .... hmmm...

I agree with SoCal ... and I find it amazing how ready and willing some of you guys are to wave goodbye to a once-in-a-generation quarterback. In two years he's re-written the passing record book for this 50 year-old franchise ... and over the past two years he's the 2nd rated QB in the league in 4th-quarter QB efficiency.

Act in haste, repent in l-e-i-s-u-r-e.
.

Drek
03-19-2009, 05:21 AM
Hmmm .... hmmm...

I agree with SoCal ... and I find it amazing how ready and willing some of you guys are to wave goodbye to a once-in-a-generation quarterback. In two years he's re-written the passing record book for this 50 year-old franchise ... and over the past two years he's the 2nd rated QB in the league in 4th-quarter QB efficiency.

Act in haste, repent in l-e-i-s-u-r-e.
.
This article is complete half assed conjecture. Its in no way good, or even passable. Its the definition of weak ass "journalism" that has gotten so many newspapers ran out of business and that has turned ESPN into a POS.

They don't report, they gossip, and often without anything to substantiate. Its the sports equivalent of The Inquirer.

Guys who still do real reporting, Shefter, King, etc. are reporting an entirely different side to this.

Also, yeah, Cutler is a young up and comer at QB. But he's also got a 17-20 career record as a starter, hasn't broke the mid-80's in QB rating over any single season, and played his worst football down the stretch this year when we had the division all but sown up.

He's a long ways from being an unquestionable franchise QB. And even if he was, he needs to learn his place in the organizational hierarchy. Thats below Josh McDaniels. If he can't take that role then he'll never win anything because he's far from a finished product.

By all means though, let people keep running wild with the baseless conjecture that Jay is espousing, and some twisted form of "logic" that suggests McDaniels ever lied to him, even though McDaniels has put the entire situation out in front of the whole world in plain english, and there is no lie to be found.

watermock
03-19-2009, 05:37 AM
The division was far from being tied up, considering our problems at RB, ST's, and Defense.

I especially love how you equate the Boston Herald with ESPN.

Drek
03-19-2009, 06:13 AM
The division was far from being tied up, considering our problems at RB, ST's, and Defense.

I especially love how you equate the Boston Herald with ESPN.

No, I equate an article that is completely lacking in substance or corroborated fact with ESPN, because thats about the standard they require to report something.

Also, we had a three game lead with three to go, including a game against the #2 team in the division. How is that not all but sown up? One win. Just one. If that had happened we make the playoffs. Hell, we played Buffalo at home and we still didn't lock it up.

An interesting thing to consider about the '08 Broncos by the way. Jay Cutler didn't have a single game with a QB rating in the 80's. He was in the 90's to 100's for every single win and he was below 78 for every single loss. You can blame the defense all you want, but when Cutler played well the team won. When he played bad the team lost. Its a pretty direct correlation, and he put up three consecutive games with sub-75 QB ratings to end the year.

crazyhorse
03-19-2009, 06:19 AM
The article begins by saying that McDaniels should have learned from BB in that he should have had a replacement before entertaining the idea of getting rid of his current QB. Then goes on to comment on McDaniels replacement for Cutler being Cassel.

It seems the article was written at 2 different times, and never proof read.

Which is it? Did McDaniels have his replacement in mind, or not? The trade may not have worked out. But McD certainly had a plan in place. The article was poorly thought out and looses credibility quickly after starting to read it.

Fluff crap. A proof read would have saved us all a couple minutes.

Hulamau
03-19-2009, 07:30 AM
Hey Hambone, why don't you just apply as another SHILL like this reporter for Cook and Company, maybe you'll even get a raise?! :kiss:

hambone13
03-20-2009, 05:10 AM
Hey Hambone, why don't you just apply as another SHILL like this reporter for Cook and Company, maybe you'll even get a raise?! :kiss:

Hey, I've got wood for any wave that's as kick ass as that in your Av. I did a ****ty job of titling this thread. After rereading it, I agree that the writing wasn't all that solid from "pure journalism" stand point but as I've mentioned in at least a couple of other posts, I was more really more allured by the potential for how this situation gets resolved than the real "meat and potatoes" of the article.....