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View Full Version : KOA reporting three way trade under discussion for Cassel


lostknight
03-18-2009, 08:07 AM
KOA just ran a blurb that there is a three way trade under discussion with possibly the redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos fans on the waiting list for season tickets, the waiting list may shortly be decremented by one.

socalorado
03-18-2009, 08:09 AM
And the hits just keep on comin'

PaintballCLE
03-18-2009, 08:09 AM
you know........our luck we would probably get portis back lol

rugbythug
03-18-2009, 08:10 AM
KOA just ran a blurb that there is a three way trade under discussion with possibly the redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos fans on the waiting list for season tickets, the waiting list may shortly be decremented by one.

Sweet-

Garcia Bronco
03-18-2009, 08:11 AM
KOA just ran a blurb that there is a three way trade under discussion with possibly the redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos fans on the waiting list for season tickets, the waiting list may shortly be decremented by one.

The list has lost over 8000 people according to my sources.

Rabb
03-18-2009, 08:11 AM
Sweet-

exactly, give it up biotch!

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:12 AM
YES JUMP OFF that BANDWAGON. Team before player........ Although this trade idea sucks ass.

Not calling you out I am just encouraging people to drop season tickets so I can move up. :wave:

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:13 AM
The list has lost over 8000 people according to my sources.

When this all broke I waited a while and let people cancel then called the ticket office. I am 16668 on the list. Current wait 10-12 years but as soon as 7. So come on people if you really want to jump off the band wagon please do!

bronco_diesel
03-18-2009, 08:13 AM
KOA just ran a blurb that there is a three way trade under discussion with possibly the redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos fans on the waiting list for season tickets, the waiting list may shortly be decremented by one.

i heard this too. i don't understand why kc would do this...

Man-Goblin
03-18-2009, 08:13 AM
Did someone say Redskins?

Cassel would be good to run the system. Cutler doesn't want to be here. Chiefs would no longer have a QB. Washing would obviously be willing to to send a kings ransom of draft pics to both teams. Lets do it.

Rabb
03-18-2009, 08:16 AM
When this all broke I waited a while and let people cancel then called the ticket office. I am 16668 on the list. Current wait 10-12 years but as soon as 7. So come on people if you really want to jump off the band wagon please do!

I need to check in, last month I was 6000 or so

broncofan7
03-18-2009, 08:17 AM
YES JUMP OFF that BANDWAGON. Team before player........ Although this trade idea sucks ass.

How does using the only leverage that a fan truly has in support of his view of the direction of the team show that he is jumping off the bandwagon? It shows that he is making a statement that he is not happy with the direction of the franchise. Now, if he were to walk away from supporting/following the Broncos based upon $$$ only(like 60+ others on this board) and not principle--well then, that would reek of being a sellout and getting off the bandwagon......but in this case, it's not. In his opinion, the Broncos would be making a mistake to trade Cutler and I happen to agree.

Broncojef
03-18-2009, 08:17 AM
KOA just ran a blurb that there is a three way trade under discussion with possibly the redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos fans on the waiting list for season tickets, the waiting list may shortly be decremented by one.

Its really the trade no one wants to talk about, McD has a hard on for Cassel and everyone is available for a price, this could also be what McD refers to when he says he doesn't want draft picks. Getting Cassel at this point would be a huge reach and probably cause us to lose alot of Cutler's trade value in the process. I'm not sure what the Deadskins would give up to pry Cassel away but its obvious they'd like to have Cutler. The bad part is the only thing probably coming back to Denver would be Cassel.

Rohirrim
03-18-2009, 08:18 AM
KOA just ran a blurb that there is a three way trade under discussion with possibly the redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos fans on the waiting list for season tickets, the waiting list may shortly be decremented by one.

Good. Don't let the door hit ya in the ass. :welcome:

lostknight
03-18-2009, 08:18 AM
YES JUMP OFF that BANDWAGON. Team before player........ Although this trade idea sucks ass.

Not calling you out I am just encouraging people to drop season tickets so I can move up. :wave:

Hmm. Mike Shanahan. Mike Leech (replaced by a player at 4x the cost), more worn out old players, Tony S, Hillis (probabably), Jay C gone.

Let's try franchise blindly shooting itself in the foot over and over and over. If I want that, I will spend my entertainment money on the Rockies.

Irish Stout
03-18-2009, 08:19 AM
I've been wondering why we weren't in talks with KC if McD wants Cassell.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:19 AM
Thats fine and I edited my post so I made it clear I wasn't attacking. But if you guys are mad enough to drop tickets do so. Because I will move right on up.

Old Dude
03-18-2009, 08:20 AM
http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=560322

More on this?

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:21 AM
Hmm. Mike Shanahan. Mike Leech (replaced by a player at 4x the cost), more worn out old players, Tony S, Hillis (probabably), Jay C gone.

Let's try franchise blindly shooting itself in the foot over and over and over. If I want that, I will spend my entertainment money on the Rockies.

Seriously did you just say shoot franchise in the foot and then say you will give the Rockies your money? Are you kidding me, a team who develops talent for other teams who refuses to field a team that costs any money.

By all means give the Monforts your money but that is sad.

montrose
03-18-2009, 08:21 AM
Why would KC want to help us out?

Traveler
03-18-2009, 08:21 AM
Cassel=$14 million. Not gonna happen.

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 08:21 AM
At least it would be hilarious around here when the _enver Br_nc_s go 2-14.

eddie mac
03-18-2009, 08:23 AM
Cassel=$14 million. Not gonna happen.

That's just his tag, he's ready to sign a bumper contract but it would be considerably less IMO than the one Bus Cook wants.

521 1N5
03-18-2009, 08:23 AM
YES JUMP OFF that BANDWAGON. Team before player........

I agree, I'm still gonna be a Broncos fan in 5-10-20 years, not a Cutler fan. I like Cutler and all, but if he wanted out before this whole soap opera went down I say bye bye baby. Let's get all we can for him and look towards the future!

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:24 AM
Cassel=$14 million. Not gonna happen.

Yeah if they want to they can find a way for a one year cap hit. For me I would rather have Cutler but if the rift is too wide you have to do something.

lostknight
03-18-2009, 08:25 AM
Look, at this point, I am not sure if we can save Cutler. Between McDaniels (who has all of Shanahan's authority with none of the wisdom) and Bus Cook (who may or may not be Voldemort) I think mismanagement by Xanders, McDaniels and Bowler has removed the one piece of this team that was working effectivly.

If our offense works at all next year, it will be in spite of McDaniels, not because of him.

That doesn't mean it's not time for a trade. But trading for Cassel, with a divisional rival, when first round first pick is being waved in front of us is idiotic in the extreme. It's even more infuriating that we got here at all. In Culter's year there was a 66% first round QB failure ranking. The year before that had not a single pick in the top ten that was worth anything.

McDaniels wants to build the Patriots East. That's a fine goal. But he is doing so by destroying the second best offense in Football, and proving that he doesn't have the maturity to use what strengths the team already has.

Ignoring your own strength is not a decent coaching philosophy.

IT would be different if we were trading Jay to build some real defensive talent. But we are not. We trading him to get a QB that doesn't have the arm strength, or ability to move outside the pocket, or just plain old physical skill that Jay has.

Popcorn Sutton
03-18-2009, 08:25 AM
Hmm. Mike Shanahan. Mike Leech (replaced by a player at 4x the cost), more worn out old players, Tony S, Hillis (probabably), Jay C gone.

Let's try franchise blindly shooting itself in the foot over and over and over. If I want that, I will spend my entertainment money on the Rockies.

You may want to research that a bit...

Leach made $800,000/year and the new guy about $1 million.

But if this is the reason you jump ship then see ya.... wouldn't want to be ya. ;D

mwill07
03-18-2009, 08:25 AM
season ticket wise, I'm about 1k away - almost there. I put myself on the list about 10 years ago, thinking my career might take me closer to Denver by now, but instead I recently moved to South Carolina. I was planning on getting the tickets and tryign to go to a game or two a year, and selling the rest either to a broker or on e-bay/stub-hub/etc. But, if the Broncos are about to go into a multi-year tailspin, coupled with the economy, moving these tix in the secondary market will be tough and probably not a break even proposition. When it becomes time for me to buy, I'll have a tough decision to make for sure.

rugbythug
03-18-2009, 08:26 AM
Hmm. Mike Shanahan. Mike Leech (replaced by a player at 4x the cost), more worn out old players, Tony S, Hillis (probabably), Jay C gone.

Let's try franchise blindly shooting itself in the foot over and over and over. If I want that, I will spend my entertainment money on the Rockies.

Get Real it was a 5 year 7 Million dollar deal. Leach is a veteran min salaray 850 K. This means at most he is 400k per season overpaid.

CSU Husker
03-18-2009, 08:27 AM
At this point I would take Cassel over most other options.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:27 AM
Look, at this point, I am not sure if we can save Cutler. Between McDaniels (who has all of Shanahan's authority with none of the wisdom) and Bus Cook (who may or may not be Voldemort) I think mismanagement by Xanders, McDaniels and Bowler has removed the one piece of this team that was working effectivly.

If our offense works at all next year, it will be in spite of McDaniels, not because of him.

That doesn't mean it's not time for a trade. But trading for Cassel, with a divisional rival, when first round first pick is being waved in front of us is idiotic in the extreme. It's even more infuriating that we got here at all. In Culter's year there was a 66% first round QB failure ranking. The year before that had not a single pick in the top ten that was worth anything.

McDaniels wants to build the Patriots East. That's a fine goal. But he is doing so by destroying the second best offense in Football, and proving that he doesn't have the maturity to use what strengths the team already has.

Ignoring your own strength is not a decent coaching philosophy.

IT would be different if we were trading Jay to build some real defensive talent. But we are not. We trading him to get a QB that doesn't have the arm strength, or ability to move outside the pocket, or just plain old physical skill that Jay has.


16th best where it matters, on the scoreboard. I am a points guy not a stats guy but hey some people are different.

CEH
03-18-2009, 08:28 AM
Denver would have to come out of this trade with Cassell, L Landry and a '09 #2 or '10 #1

Captain 'Dre
03-18-2009, 08:28 AM
Something has to give.... Eventually, one of these rumors will turn out to be accurate.

Captain 'Dre
03-18-2009, 08:29 AM
Denver would have to come out of this trade with Cassell, L Landry and a '09 #2 or '10 #1

No... I don't see THAT happening.

If anything, Jay has driven his value DOWN.

Popcorn Sutton
03-18-2009, 08:30 AM
Get Real it was a 5 year 7 Million dollar deal. Leach is a veteran min salaray 850 K. This means at most he is 400k per season overpaid.

Actually 5 year 5 million.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1086

Inkana7
03-18-2009, 08:31 AM
I'd love Jason Campbell.

maher_tyler
03-18-2009, 08:32 AM
:bs:

CEH
03-18-2009, 08:32 AM
No... I don't see THAT happening.

If anything, Jay has driven his value DOWN.

Did you watch NFLTA last night .
They led with 3 stories on teams that want Jay.
I don't trade Cutler unless we get Cassell, a stud D and a pick

TonyR
03-18-2009, 08:32 AM
Is KOA providing any details on the trade or is it all generalities?

I'm in the McD/Broncos camp in this whole thing but to me it only makes sense to give up Cutler if we're going to get a LOT in return. He has value and you have to get everything you can. Otherwise you hold on to him and make it work. I'll be anti McD/Broncos FO very quickly if they botch this trade, assuming they do it at all.

Rabb
03-18-2009, 08:33 AM
Something has to give.... Eventually, one of these rumors will turn out to be accurate.

yep

bronco militia
03-18-2009, 08:33 AM
http://850koa.com/main.html

montrose
03-18-2009, 08:34 AM
How's this?

Kansas City trades Matt Cassel
Washington trades Jason Campbell, LaRon Landry and #13 pick
Denver trades Jay Cutler and #79 pick

Kansas City receives Jason Campbell and #79 pick
Washington receives Jay Cutler
Denver receives Matt Cassel, LaRon Landry and #13 pick

bronco militia
03-18-2009, 08:36 AM
just herd it....it's yesterdays rumor

missingnumber7
03-18-2009, 08:36 AM
When this all broke I waited a while and let people cancel then called the ticket office. I am 16668 on the list. Current wait 10-12 years but as soon as 7. So come on people if you really want to jump off the band wagon please do!

Where did you get your number? I wanna know where I was. I signed up in 2004.

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 08:36 AM
No... I don't see THAT happening.

If anything, Jay has driven his value DOWN.

Two weeks ago, McDaniels was willing to trade him for Cassel and a pick. Since Cassel was eventually traded for a 2nd round pick, that means Cutler's market value 2 weeks ago was a 2nd rounder and another pick.

Yesterday, Pat Kirwan said Cutler's market value, even after all the crap, was two firsts and a player.

Obviously, logic would seem to be on your side....but apparently logic isn't in charge in the NFL. Seems to me his value has never been higher.

Pony Boy
03-18-2009, 08:37 AM
Thats fine and I edited my post so I made it clear I wasn't attacking. But if you guys are mad enough to drop tickets do so. Because I will move right on up.

What would you do or how low would you go for 50-yard line season tickets. (Would probably be a good thread or at least as good as some of the stuff I've seen in my short existence on the Mane)

bronco militia
03-18-2009, 08:38 AM
they've replaced the browns with the chiefs....I say 100% BS

Broncojef
03-18-2009, 08:38 AM
Look, at this point, I am not sure if we can save Cutler. Between McDaniels (who has all of Shanahan's authority with none of the wisdom) and Bus Cook (who may or may not be Voldemort) I think mismanagement by Xanders, McDaniels and Bowler has removed the one piece of this team that was working effectivly.

If our offense works at all next year, it will be in spite of McDaniels, not because of him.

That doesn't mean it's not time for a trade. But trading for Cassel, with a divisional rival, when first round first pick is being waved in front of us is idiotic in the extreme. It's even more infuriating that we got here at all. In Culter's year there was a 66% first round QB failure ranking. The year before that had not a single pick in the top ten that was worth anything.

McDaniels wants to build the Patriots East. That's a fine goal. But he is doing so by destroying the second best offense in Football, and proving that he doesn't have the maturity to use what strengths the team already has.

Ignoring your own strength is not a decent coaching philosophy.

IT would be different if we were trading Jay to build some real defensive talent. But we are not. We trading him to get a QB that doesn't have the arm strength, or ability to move outside the pocket, or just plain old physical skill that Jay has.

McDaniels has a coaching style that he wants to implement, if Cassel is the guy then he needs to make it happen. Look Jay has been blown up to be a whole lot better than he is on this board. He's a high flying big play guy that looks unstoppable one week and like crap the next. McDaniels obviously wants stability at the position and is willing to forego some huge plays in order to mitigate mentally challenged plays. First rounders are still a crap shoot and cost alot of money. If Cassel is the guy I'd forego the first rounder to bring him in. McDaniels is a very very talented offensive mind you guys need to remember how his offense embarrassed us on national television last year and how Jay was a no show in that game.

Old Dude
03-18-2009, 08:38 AM
Denial from DC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2009/03/cerrato_redskins_not_pursuing.html

BroncoFiend
03-18-2009, 08:38 AM
Something has to give.... Eventually, one of these rumors will turn out to be accurate.

I like the rumor where Cutler comes to the mandatory team functions and training camp, goes into the year as the Broncos starter and by year's end realizes this isn't such a bad place to be. Meanwhile, McD also realizes that Cutler is pretty darn good and signs him to an extension after the year.

Like you said, one rumor has to come true, it might as wll be the one that works best for the Broncos.

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 08:38 AM
just herd it....it's yesterdays rumor

The only one I saw yesterday was Cleveland in place of KC (essentially swapping out Cassel's name for Quinn's). That was obviously phony.

BroncoInferno
03-18-2009, 08:39 AM
What are the terms reportedly being discussed? This would make no sense on the part of KC unless they like Campbell better than Cassel and are getting him in return. I assume Cutler would be going to the Skins.

Irish Stout
03-18-2009, 08:39 AM
How's this?

Kansas City trades Matt Cassel
Washington trades Jason Campbell, LaRon Landry and #13 pick
Denver trades Jay Cutler and #79 pick

Kansas City receives Jason Campbell and #79 pick
Washington receives Jay Cutler
Denver receives Matt Cassel, LaRon Landry and #13 pick

If thats how it works out, then I think KC is a huge winner. Denver comes in second on that deal.

PaintballCLE
03-18-2009, 08:39 AM
How's this?

Kansas City trades Matt Cassel
Washington trades Jason Campbell, LaRon Landry and #13 pick
Denver trades Jay Cutler and #79 pick

Kansas City receives Jason Campbell and #79 pick
Washington receives Jay Cutler
Denver receives Matt Cassel, LaRon Landry and #13 pick

i dont think there is any way KC would do that......

Maybe KC gets Campbell and the 13th pick
Wash gets Cutler and 79th pick
Den gets Cassel and Landry

empulse
03-18-2009, 08:39 AM
In regards to the news that hit yesterday stating that Puss Cook was "begging" for a trade before the initial Cassel trade news hit (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/17/report-cook-was-begging-for-cutler-trade/) , I think Cutler is as good as gone. The whole fricking thing is an act. A dramatic act, puppeteered by Puss Cook.

We need to entertain any and all offers, and pit one team against each other. . . I am not certain that Cassel is who I want under center, but I think we should welcome the bidding war.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:43 AM
Where did you get your number? I wanna know where I was. I signed up in 2004.

Email the ticket office, or call. They are really responsive.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:44 AM
What would you do or how low would you go for 50-yard line season tickets. (Would probably be a good thread or at least as good as some of the stuff I've seen in my short existence on the Mane)

I wouldn't I want to go the traditional route. Start up in nosebleeds and work my way down. Makes it more meaningful.

Man-Goblin
03-18-2009, 08:45 AM
How's this?

Kansas City trades Matt Cassel
Washington trades Jason Campbell, LaRon Landry and #13 pick
Denver trades Jay Cutler and #79 pick

Kansas City receives Jason Campbell and #79 pick
Washington receives Jay Cutler
Denver receives Matt Cassel, LaRon Landry and #13 pick

I like it but I think KC is going to want more for Cassel. The interesting thing is his value has already been established as the 34th pick in the draft. I don't think Campbell and #79 get you there.

Requiem
03-18-2009, 08:46 AM
Cerrato (Redskins dude) denied this ****. O well.

dbfan4life
03-18-2009, 08:47 AM
I don't see the Cassel appeal. Yeah, he is a McD guy and yeah he had one good season. He also got yanked in mop up duty when Brady and Co were running up scores. How the hell do you get yanked in mop up time. Cassell under center would be a disaster.

Dagmar
03-18-2009, 08:48 AM
Right, I am going for a 60 minute run. when I come back I want this **** to be sorted!

bronco militia
03-18-2009, 08:48 AM
why would the chiefs trade Cassel for Jason Cambell?

to help the Broncos?!?!

ummm right

montrose
03-18-2009, 08:50 AM
If thats how it works out, then I think KC is a huge winner. Denver comes in second on that deal.

I think you have to make them the winner in the deal to get them to do it. Why would they help a division rival otherwise?

i dont think there is any way KC would do that......

Maybe KC gets Campbell and the 13th pick
Wash gets Cutler and 79th pick
Den gets Cassel and Landry

I think that's too much for KC and Washington, not enough for Denver. I agree with Kirwan that Cutler's value is somewhere in the neighborhood of two 1sts and a starting player. To get Cassel, I'd be willing to come off a bit just because he's the best option as he knows the entire system and is McDaniels guy.

I know a lot of people dog Cassel but he'd be by the far best option among the names thrown out, IMO. Not because of superior talent (which could be debated) but the fact he's 100% fluent in this offense is priceless. There'd be no transition, none. From day one at OTAs, McDaniels could run this entire offense without a hitch and have a QB who has spent years learning it under the best QB in the game. With a full season under his belt, he should be better adjusted to the game speed of the NFL and the Broncos OL would give him better time than he had last year in New England.

I personally think it's a pipe dream because there's no well in hell Scott Pioli is giving up Cassel - especially to help out Denver. Pioli is one of the league's savviest personnel men and most respected talent evaluators, that's why he went out and got Cassel. But if he were available, he's a much better option than the other names being floated around - IMO.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:50 AM
I don't see the Cassel appeal. Yeah, he is a McD guy and yeah he had one good season. He also got yanked in mop up duty when Brady and Co were running up scores. How the hell do you get yanked in mop up time. Cassell under center would be a disaster.

That was 2 years ago. Last year he started off bad and as the year went on got better and better. Thats what is driving the appeal. But to make an argument around getting yanked in mop up duty is weak when that was almost 2 years ago. I would rather have a happy Cutler. But is that possible.

Drek
03-18-2009, 08:51 AM
How's this?

Kansas City trades Matt Cassel
Washington trades Jason Campbell, LaRon Landry and #13 pick
Denver trades Jay Cutler and #79 pick

Kansas City receives Jason Campbell and #79 pick
Washington receives Jay Cutler
Denver receives Matt Cassel, LaRon Landry and #13 pick

If that happened Josh McDaniels would have completely stolen Shanahan's "I rape the 'skins" mojo in a single move.

Think about it. A QB who is only one year older than Cutler and already knows our new system, an elite young safety, and the top 15 pick directly behind ours?

For Cutler and our 3rd?

That would be epic theft, the kind that gets even white collars send to the pen.

Man-Goblin
03-18-2009, 08:53 AM
why would the chiefs trade Cassel for Jason Cambell?

to help the Broncos?!?!

ummm right

Maybe they are having trouble working out a long term deal with him...

For the record, I don't think the Broncos are talking to anyone about Cutler...at least not yet.

BroncoFiend
03-18-2009, 08:54 AM
I think you have to make them the winner in the deal to get them to do it. Why would they help a division rival otherwise?




Are they 'helping us' by helping us get rid of the best young QB in the league?

Rabb
03-18-2009, 08:54 AM
is KOA reliable for this kind of thing?

I like Logan, but just judging from the tripe that comes from the Fan, I tend to not believe crap that any of them say

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 08:55 AM
One of the (very few) things I agree with McD on is don't do it for picks. Most picks you end up spending a small fortune for a players that blows.

Of course, don't do it at all.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 08:56 AM
is KOA reliable for this kind of thing?

I like Logan, but just judging from the tripe that comes from the Fan, I tend to not believe crap that any of them say

KOA is the radio home of the Broncos I would say they would be careful to not just post any bogus rumor out there.

TonyR
03-18-2009, 09:02 AM
Cerrato (Redskins dude) denied this ****. O well.

Well, even if the rumor does has some truth to it that's what those involved will do. Can't have your prima donna QB finding out about it and melting down. Speaking of which, any word on whether Cassell or Campbell are throwing public fits about their names being involved in trade talk?

lostknight
03-18-2009, 09:04 AM
You may want to research that a bit...

Leach made $800,000/year and the new guy about $1 million.

But if this is the reason you jump ship then see ya.... wouldn't want to be ya. ;D

Factor in bonus money ;-)

Broncoman13
03-18-2009, 09:05 AM
Sweet-

We're giving up Cutler and a pick for Cassel.

TonyR
03-18-2009, 09:06 AM
Last year he started off bad and as the year went on got better and better.

Very unlike our very own QB who started off the year on fire and finished up the year not so much...

lostknight
03-18-2009, 09:06 AM
Cerrato (Redskins dude) denied this ****. O well.

No, he denied a different rumour yesterday.

Rohirrim
03-18-2009, 09:09 AM
If I had to speculate, and that seems to be the hottest game in town right now, I would say that the Broncos' FO has told Bus Cook and Cutler that they have no intention of trading Jay and expect him to show up for mandatory camp, and if Bus wants to run around the league looking for trade deals they'll be glad to listen, but they have no intention, at this time, of trading Jay Cutler.

socalorado
03-18-2009, 09:12 AM
If I had to speculate, and that seems to be the hottest game in town right now, I would say that the Broncos' FO has told Bus Cook and Cutler that they have no intention of trading Jay and expect him to show up for mandatory camp, and if Bus wants to run around the league looking for trade deals they'll be glad to listen, but they have no intention, at this time, of trading Jay Cutler.

And this is good, simply because i think DEN really is going to trade him. As much as i want them not to, i think hes gone. So DEN should listen to all offers, and make Puss Cook earn his pay.

HILife
03-18-2009, 09:17 AM
YES JUMP OFF that BANDWAGON. Team before player........ Although this trade idea sucks ass.

Not calling you out I am just encouraging people to drop season tickets so I can move up. :wave:

What are you talking about?? This trade is great! KC gives us Cassal, we give Jay (cry baby) Cutler to the Redskins, the Skins gives use there first and second this year and a first next year (because that's what they do), and KC can kiss my arse. IT"S PERFECT!!!!!11!!1111!!

EDIT: Nevermind. I don't want Cutler in my area of the NFL and I don't want him going to KC. Maybe this trading idea isn't that good after all.

montrose
03-18-2009, 09:20 AM
Are they 'helping us' by helping us get rid of the best young QB in the league?

Considering he might be gone anyhow, they know Cassel is the guy we want. Why give him to us?

lostknight
03-18-2009, 09:22 AM
Of course they are trying to trade Cutler. Anyone with half a brain knows that they are trying to trade Cutler. Anyone with 1/4th of a brain knows that they were trying to trade Cutler before the FO period opened.

lostknight
03-18-2009, 09:23 AM
Kansas City will make the trade if it is in their interest to do so. I suspect that their draft pick that they used to get Cassel will be significantly higher to get he away.

I still am unsure of Cassel. Thigpen was going a decent job the second half of the season.

Northman
03-18-2009, 09:25 AM
Now that would be funny. We would never hear the end of it from Boob.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2009, 09:29 AM
Yeah if they want to they can find a way for a one year cap hit. For me I would rather have Cutler but if the rift is too wide you have to do something.

I'd rather have Cassel. Jay's gonna have a short, ignominious career.

maher_tyler
03-18-2009, 09:31 AM
:bs:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 09:31 AM
Of course they are trying to trade Cutler. Anyone with half a brain knows that they are trying to trade Cutler. Anyone with 1/4th of a brain knows that they were trying to trade Cutler before the FO period opened.

LOL!

Look out! It's the guy with all the answers, who "KNOWS" everything for a fact!

Too bad he's only got 1/4th of a brain.

WolfpackGuy
03-18-2009, 09:32 AM
Give it up, McDaniels.
The only way the Cheaps come off Cassel is if the Broncos give them Cutler in return which just may happen in this McD-Cassel man crush soap opera gone wild.

JCMElway
03-18-2009, 09:34 AM
How's this?

Kansas City trades Matt Cassel
Washington trades Jason Campbell, LaRon Landry and #13 pick
Denver trades Jay Cutler and #79 pick

Kansas City receives Jason Campbell and #79 pick
Washington receives Jay Cutler
Denver receives Matt Cassel, LaRon Landry and #13 pick

And then we have the ammo to trade up for Curry. I like it.

socalorado
03-18-2009, 09:36 AM
And then we have the ammo to trade up for Curry. I like it.

I thought that too! But then i think maybe just getting two really, really good players and bolstering two spots is the best bet.

Rohirrim
03-18-2009, 09:39 AM
I would guess, at this point, Cassel isn't going to happen. Pioli isn't going to change his mind unless you overwhelm him. I still think the best option would be Leinart, with some major caveats. Primarily, I would base this on value; He won't cost as much as Cassel at this point. Secondly, he was a better QB at USC than Cassel. Cassel was a year ahead and couldn't pry Leinart out of his starting job. But Leinart has looked like crap in AZ. McD would have to watch the film and determine the cause of some of these crappy perfomances. Was it because of Green's and then Whisenhunt's schemes? Were they asking him to do stuff he isn't cut out to do? For some reason, the guy was a champion at USC and has looked less than that at the NFL level. If that's because he's a bust, so be it. If it's just because he's in the wrong place, then you might have a real find on the cheap, just sitting on the bench down in AZ. I trust McD could make that determination, but I hope if this Cutler situation can't be resolved, that they take a look down that way and maybe watch some film. Jim Plunkett looked like crap his first few years in the league as well. As have some other QBs in NFL history.

WolfpackGuy
03-18-2009, 09:43 AM
For some reason, the guy was a champion at USC and has looked less than that at the NFL level.

Surrounded by superior talent at Southern Cal.

socalorado
03-18-2009, 09:45 AM
I would guess, at this point, Cassel isn't going to happen. Pioli isn't going to change his mind unless you overwhelm him. I still think the best option would be Leinart, with some major caveats. Primarily, I would base this on value; He won't cost as much as Cassel at this point. Secondly, he was a better QB at USC than Cassel. Cassel was a year ahead and couldn't pry Leinart out of his starting job. But Leinart has looked like crap in AZ. McD would have to watch the film and determine the cause of some of these crappy perfomances. Was it because of Green's and then Whisenhunt's schemes? Were they asking him to do stuff he isn't cut out to do? For some reason, the guy was a champion at USC and has looked less than that at the NFL level. If that's because he's a bust, so be it. If it's just because he's in the wrong place, then you might have a real find on the cheap, just sitting on the bench down in AZ. I trust McD could make that determination, but I hope if this Cutler situation can't be resolved, that they take a look down that way and maybe watch some film. Jim Plunkett looked like crap his first few years in the league as well. As have some other QBs in NFL history.

Leinart is a bust to me. System guy who had all kinds of college superstars around him.
Brady Quinn is the guy i would think MCD would go after. HE is a legitimate talent, played on a crappy team, and still produced, and most importantly, he knows the system already. HE already played under Weiss and wont have a problem walking in day 1 and knowing how the base for the system works.

Rohirrim
03-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Surrounded by superior talent at Southern Cal.

Maybe, but I remember him pulling off some pretty awesome plays himself. I think it would be worth a look just to figure out what happened there.

Rohirrim
03-18-2009, 09:52 AM
Leinart is a bust to me. System guy who had all kinds of college superstars around him.
Brady Quinn is the guy i would think MCD would go after. HE is a legitimate talent, played on a crappy team, and still produced, and most importantly, he knows the system already. HE already played under Weiss and wont have a problem walking in day 1 and knowing how the base for the system works.

I'm not very impressed with Quinn's record in games either. Hell, he's only been in four. Two TDs, Two INTs. ??? I think he and Leinart are pretty much a toss-up as far their NFL performance has gone. Then, there's the argument that if he is, as you say, a "system" guy, and McD is a "system" guy, and McD wanted Cassel because he's a "system" guy, why not go after one of the best "system" QBs of all time (according to college record)?

Like I said, I think McD has a very good eye when it comes to QBs. I just hope they take a look, that's all. To me, it's a real mystery what happened to Leinart.

Rabb
03-18-2009, 09:53 AM
it is hard to get a read on Quinn because of his lack of playing time

the potential is there for sure

WolfpackGuy
03-18-2009, 09:54 AM
Quinn didn't exactly light it up when he played the Broncos last year.
That should tell us all we need to know about him.

colonelbeef
03-18-2009, 09:55 AM
i heard this too. i don't understand why kc would do this...

Because Cutler is a far superior player to Cassel, and the only moron in the world who thinks otherwise is Josh McDaniels

lostknight
03-18-2009, 09:57 AM
I've heard from a source that I aboslutly can not authenticate that my theory that the Goodman's leaving because they refused to trade Cutler is 100% on base.

According to same source the bidding is going to start at two first round picks + 1 QB. (This by the way is what the "true" deal was early on - Matt Cassel + both of Detroit first round picks). New York Jets, Redskins, Vikings, Lions and Bucs are highly committed. Other teams have expressed "interest" but probably would not be willing to mortgage themselves to the level that would be required.

This will go down before the draft however. The Broncos get maximum value if they play teams off of each other, and they can't do that once the draft picks start rolling.

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 10:00 AM
Quinn didn't exactly light it up when he played the Broncos last year.

Seriously?

23/35 239 yds 2 TDs 0 INTs

In his first ever NFL start with only one practice under his belt with the first unit.

Rabb
03-18-2009, 10:01 AM
Seriously?

23/35 239 yds 2 TDs 0 INTs

In his first ever NFL start with only one practice under his belt with the first unit.

exactly, nobody can make an opinion yet...there is little evidence either way

upside looks good to me

Dudeskey
03-18-2009, 10:12 AM
If they trade Cutler, I'd rather see them try to get Brady Quinn & maybe Shaun Rogers and/ or their 1st rounder.

Cool Breeze
03-18-2009, 10:12 AM
I saw nothing on KOA pertaining to the Redskin rumor

HILife
03-18-2009, 10:52 AM
what is the site to sign up for season tickets. I figure in 15years i'll save enough to buy them. Also how much do season tickets usually cost.

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 10:56 AM
what is the site to sign up for season tickets. I figure in 15years i'll save enough to buy them. Also how much do season tickets usually cost.

In 15 years, I'm guessing the number will be quite different that what folks are paying this year. Try asking what folks like TGN were paying 15 years ago vs today.

Circle Orange
03-18-2009, 10:59 AM
Brady Quinn, eh? Hmm...intruiging...

arm not as strong, but more athletic and with that 'eyes in the back of his head' reminiscent of another guy I remember.

Still, my eyeballs are spinning from all this madness. Can we get off the train? :rofl:

OBF1
03-18-2009, 11:02 AM
Hmm. Mike Shanahan. Mike Leech (replaced by a player at 4x the cost), more worn out old players, Tony S, Hillis (probabably), Jay C gone.

Let's try franchise blindly shooting itself in the foot over and over and over. If I want that, I will spend my entertainment money on the Rockies.

Hey dumb ass.... Tell me you have not suffered the past 2 or 3 seasons with the list of players and coaches that are now gone. What had they done the past few years? Just get rid of your tickets today, The Broncos could care less about a whiner like you.

barryr
03-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Hmm, Quinn the same guy that had an easy time against the Bronco defense last year. (Who didn't despite denials from some Bronco fans most of the season?) The same defense that has stunk the last 3 years and the same DC that Shanahan refused to fire.

Oh no, another Mike Leach is gone. You know people are grasping at straws when they piss and moan about the long snapper being replaced.

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 11:38 AM
i heard this too. i don't understand why kc would do this...

Because Cutler is a better QB than Cassel?

What I find sickening is that we are willing to give up $12 million or so of extra cap this year to get Cassel... it's pretty ****ing stupid.

OrangeRising
03-18-2009, 11:53 AM
This has to be someones idea of off-season humor. The very idea makes no sense at any level other than some perverted fatal attraction for Cassel by McDaniels, and to go roundabout through Washington to get to a guy just traded to the Chiefs is laughable in a sickening kind of way.

Is KOA really giving this credibility? Really? This just doesn't seem possible under any circumstance. None.

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2009, 12:18 PM
Why would KC want to help us out?

With Pioli in charge, they may be willing to deal via a third party. My question is this: why would KC deal Cassel after just acquiring him?

Perhaps McX had all this planned in advance? Are they that smart, are they that ahead of the game? I'd like to say "yes" to those questions but I just can't. Not yet at least.

I don't like the idea of getting Cassel and his $14m contract. And why would KC want Campbell?

I just don't see how KC can be involved in any trade talks if Cassel is not in the equation.

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2009, 12:30 PM
I think you have to make them the winner in the deal to get them to do it. Why would they help a division rival otherwise?



I think that's too much for KC and Washington, not enough for Denver. I agree with Kirwan that Cutler's value is somewhere in the neighborhood of two 1sts and a starting player. To get Cassel, I'd be willing to come off a bit just because he's the best option as he knows the entire system and is McDaniels guy.

I know a lot of people dog Cassel but he'd be by the far best option among the names thrown out, IMO. Not because of superior talent (which could be debated) but the fact he's 100% fluent in this offense is priceless. There'd be no transition, none. From day one at OTAs, McDaniels could run this entire offense without a hitch and have a QB who has spent years learning it under the best QB in the game. With a full season under his belt, he should be better adjusted to the game speed of the NFL and the Broncos OL would give him better time than he had last year in New England.

I personally think it's a pipe dream because there's no well in hell Scott Pioli is giving up Cassel - especially to help out Denver. Pioli is one of the league's savviest personnel men and most respected talent evaluators, that's why he went out and got Cassel. But if he were available, he's a much better option than the other names being floated around - IMO.


Yes, Pioli is savy and he knows that IF he delt Cassel to the Broncos and got good value in return, he can draft a QB and work with Campbell. He also knows that by sending Cassel to the Broncos, the KC/Denver rivalry will be around and strong for a long time, which means ticket sales, which always a good thing.

A GM in Pioli position has various tasks, and one of those is to make sure the product sells, regardless of wins and losses. Yes, over the long run, winning gets you stability but KC ownership showed tremendous patience with Carl Peterson. As long as the chefs are putting people in the seats, they may give Pioli time to develop a QB.

Bowlen, on the other hand, may not be so patient with McD. While Bowlen can see the long term sales of tickets being a priority, I think he's more anxious to win, and win now. McX may not have the luxury that Pioli has to build a winning team.

colonelbeef
03-18-2009, 12:31 PM
Look, at this point, I am not sure if we can save Cutler. Between McDaniels (who has all of Shanahan's authority with none of the wisdom) and Bus Cook (who may or may not be Voldemort) I think mismanagement by Xanders, McDaniels and Bowler has removed the one piece of this team that was working effectivly.

If our offense works at all next year, it will be in spite of McDaniels, not because of him.

That doesn't mean it's not time for a trade. But trading for Cassel, with a divisional rival, when first round first pick is being waved in front of us is idiotic in the extreme. It's even more infuriating that we got here at all. In Culter's year there was a 66% first round QB failure ranking. The year before that had not a single pick in the top ten that was worth anything.

McDaniels wants to build the Patriots East. That's a fine goal. But he is doing so by destroying the second best offense in Football, and proving that he doesn't have the maturity to use what strengths the team already has.

Ignoring your own strength is not a decent coaching philosophy.

IT would be different if we were trading Jay to build some real defensive talent. But we are not. We trading him to get a QB that doesn't have the arm strength, or ability to move outside the pocket, or just plain old physical skill that Jay has.

Great post, and worth repeating. Anybody who sees this differently misses the point completely.

colonelbeef
03-18-2009, 12:34 PM
16th best where it matters, on the scoreboard. I am a points guy not a stats guy but hey some people are different.

If you think this is a reflection on the offense and not on the defense and ST/average field position, you don't understand football and should find another sport to misjudge

bronco militia
03-18-2009, 12:38 PM
If you think this is a reflection on the offense and not on the defense and ST/average field position, you don't understand football and should find another sport to misjudge

:rofl:

wtf

DHallblows
03-18-2009, 12:45 PM
WHHYYY?!?! Why do we want Derek Anderson v2.0?!
Hell, I'd prefer Anderson over Cassel if it wasn't for our HC already having worked with him...
There better be some ****ing D in this trade...oh wait neither team HAS any to give!

Hope the trade talks haven't been proven a lie over the first 5 pages, didn't wanna read the BS

WABronco
03-18-2009, 12:45 PM
Misses "your" point, not "the" point.

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 12:51 PM
If you think this is a reflection on the offense and not on the defense and ST/average field position, you don't understand football and should find another sport to misjudge

The Broncos average starting field position last year was league average. Only 5 yards separated the best from the worst in terms of kick return average....they were in the middle of that. And they were in the top half of the league in punt returns. The lack of turnovers hurt, but not enough to skew the numbers much at all.

socalorado
03-18-2009, 12:57 PM
WHHYYY?!?! Why do we want Derek Anderson v2.0?!
Hell, I'd prefer Anderson over Cassel if it wasn't for our HC already having worked with him...
There better be some ****ing D in this trade...oh wait neither team HAS any to give!
Hope the trade talks haven't been proven a lie over the first 5 pages, didn't wanna read the BS
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r196/JohnathanZX4/Screencaps%20et%20al/Brick.jpg

TonyR
03-18-2009, 12:57 PM
Great post, and worth repeating. Anybody who sees this differently misses the point completely.

Except for the part where he said "If our offense works at all next year, it will be in spite of McDaniels, not because of him" which is completely ridiculous considering McD's track record in running NE's offense, with and without Tom Brady.

TonyR
03-18-2009, 12:59 PM
The Broncos average starting field position last year was league average. Only 5 yards separated the best from the worst in terms of kick return average....they were in the middle of that. And they were in the top half of the league in punt returns. The lack of turnovers hurt, but not enough to skew the numbers much at all.

Where were you with this when Rev was using field position as the crux of his argument with me yesterday?!?

lostknight
03-18-2009, 01:02 PM
Except for the part where he said "If our offense works at all next year, it will be in spite of McDaniels, not because of him" which is completely ridiculous considering McD's track record in running NE's offense, with and without Tom Brady.

You mean the track record where NE won superbowls without McDaniels as OC, and lost them with?

A insane example, but no less insane then your citing New England (which had success before McDaniels, and will have success after) as proof that McDaniels is the greatest OC coach ever.

To be fair, you didnt say that. But other people here have basically done so.

DHallblows
03-18-2009, 01:30 PM
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r196/JohnathanZX4/Screencaps%20et%20al/Brick.jpg

ROFL! Ok ok :wave:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 01:32 PM
You mean the track record where NE won superbowls without McDaniels as OC, and lost them with?

A insane example, but no less insane then your citing New England (which had success before McDaniels, and will have success after) as proof that McDaniels is the greatest OC coach ever.

To be fair, you didnt say that. But other people here have basically done so.

Basically done so? Or not done so at all, but you're rejecting reality in favor of your own, alternate reality?

Thought so.

ChampBailey24
03-18-2009, 01:45 PM
is there any validity to this? has anyone else hear it on KOA? not trying to second guess you, im jw.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2009, 01:47 PM
If you think this is a reflection on the offense and not on the defense and ST/average field position, you don't understand football and should find another sport to misjudge

Yep you are a dumbass.

BroncoBuff
03-18-2009, 01:50 PM
Except for the part where he said "If our offense works at all next year, it will be in spite of McDaniels, not because of him" which is completely ridiculous considering McD's track record in running NE's offense, with and without Tom Brady.

Yeah, his track record as a coordinator dropped into the greatest dynasty since the 70s Steelers. Extrapolating that success into a HEAD-coaching job with a different team is problematic, to say the least.

The battlefield of history is littered with the dead bodies of all-star coordinators who failed as head coaches.
.

BroncoInferno
03-18-2009, 01:53 PM
Yeah, his track record as a coordinator dropped into the greatest dynasty since the 70s Steelers. Extrapolating that success into a HEAD-coaching job with a different team is problematic, to say the least.

The battlefield of history is littered with the dead bodies of all-star coordinators who failed as head coaches.
.

I don't think he's disputing that, just the notion that if the offense is successful it will be so despite McDaniels. I think pretty much any reasonable person would agree that if the offense is successful McDaniels will play a big part in that success.

maher_tyler
03-18-2009, 01:55 PM
:bs:

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 02:00 PM
The Broncos average starting field position last year was league average. Only 5 yards separated the best from the worst in terms of kick return average....they were in the middle of that. And they were in the top half of the league in punt returns. The lack of turnovers hurt, but not enough to skew the numbers much at all.

Bull. We may very well have been in the middle in KO and PR yardage, but I guarentee you we were near the bottom in both a.) average possessions per game and b.) average starting position per possession.

As to b.), that is influenced by turnovers and where they punt from more than anything else, and we blew at both of those (ie., if they punted, they weren't doing so from their own 5 very often).

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 02:10 PM
Bull. We may very well have been in the middle in KO and PR yardage, but I guarentee you we were near the bottom in both a.) average possessions per game and b.) average starting position per possession.

As to b.), that is influenced by turnovers and where they punt from more than anything else, and we blew at both of those (ie., if they punted, they weren't doing so from their own 5 very often).

To add on to this, I went and reviewed our last 6 games and we started at midfield or better exactly 0 times during that span. Quite impressive!

rugbythug
03-18-2009, 02:14 PM
Bull. We may very well have been in the middle in KO and PR yardage, but I guarentee you we were near the bottom in both a.) average possessions per game and b.) average starting position per possession.

As to b.), that is influenced by turnovers and where they punt from more than anything else, and we blew at both of those (ie., if they punted, they weren't doing so from their own 5 very often).

I am calling BS on this.

A) opposing offenses barely even held on the ball very long at all.
B) Extra Points are an untimed down.
C) Kick Offs are a change of possession.

We had lots of possessions per game. They usually got 5-7 Kick offs per game.

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 02:19 PM
I am calling BS on this.

A) opposing offenses barely even held on the ball very long at all.
B) Extra Points are an untimed down.
C) Kick Offs are a change of possession.

We had lots of possessions per game. They usually got 5-7 Kick offs per game.

Okay, I added it up.

Over the last 6 games, we averaged 10.17 possessions a game (feel free to do the entire season).

The average number of possessions per game for the average team is around 12.

That's almost 2 less drives a game, which is a very big deal.

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 02:22 PM
Bull. We may very well have been in the middle in KO and PR yardage, but I guarentee you we were near the bottom in both a.) average possessions per game and b.) average starting position per possession.

a) You do realize that a low number of possessions per game (which I'm not convinced the Broncos even had) does not equate to bad starting field position, don't you?

b) Punts? The Broncos were literally 32nd in the league in the number of punts they forced (20 - courtesy of nfl.com), so regardless where they occurred, it again didn't skew the field position figure that much at all considering they faced over 4 times as many kickoffs as punts.
[/QUOTE]

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 02:23 PM
That's almost 2 less drives a game, which is a very big deal.

But # of drives per game does not affect the field position average....

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 02:28 PM
a) You do realize that a low number of possessions per game (which I'm not convinced the Broncos even had) does not equate to bad starting field position, don't you?

b) Punts? The Broncos were literally 32nd in the league in the number of punts they forced (20 - courtesy of nfl.com), so regardless where they occurred, it again didn't skew the field position figure that much at all considering they faced over 4 times as many kickoffs as punts.


See post above, I added a.) up myself and I am right.

And it's a huge factor why our total points was lower, which is the point when people trought out our scoring numbers to skew it like our offense was medicore.

As to b.), we faced 52 punts, 30 of which started at the 20 or worse!!!

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 02:30 PM
But # of drives per game does not affect the field position average....

Nope, certainly doesn't. It does greatly affect the O's total points scored though.

joe9999
03-18-2009, 02:32 PM
KOA just ran a blurb that there is a three way trade under discussion with possibly the redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos fans on the waiting list for season tickets, the waiting list may shortly be decremented by one.

Someone looking to make a fast buck, should make brown bags with Bronco logo that will be a big item half way throug the season.

rugbythug
03-18-2009, 02:36 PM
Okay, I added it up.

Over the last 6 games, we averaged 10.17 possessions a game (feel free to do the entire season).

The average number of possessions per game for the average team is around 12.

That's almost 2 less drives a game, which is a very big deal.

Dude it was a Joke at the expense of Last years _efense.

barryr
03-18-2009, 02:39 PM
In Plummer's last season with the Broncos, they were near the bottom, if not last, in starting field position since the Broncos' defense was near the bottom,if not last, in the category of "3 plays and punt" not to mention never causing any turnovers, which has been a trend the last few years.

The Broncos that year always seemed to be starting at the 20 or worse on almost every possession. That was another case of a bad defense that Shanahan was supposedly fixing. I remember a lot of talk that year of how bad Plummer was and the offense not scoring or performing well, but I don't remember too many worrying about that stat back then. And yeah, I brought it up back then since that stat would flash on the screen in almost every Bronco game of how they were starting nearly every possession so poorly.

You could have probably counted on one hand how many possessions they started beyond their own 40 that year and it's not really changed much since.

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 02:50 PM
Okay, I added it up.

Over the last 6 games, we averaged 10.17 possessions a game (feel free to do the entire season).

The average number of possessions per game for the average team is around 12.

That's almost 2 less drives a game, which is a very big deal.

It wasn't a big deal in weeks one through three, when they were literally lighting up the scoreboard and.....oh yeah....averaging 10 drives per game.

I think your "12 drive average" is off as well.....both the Broncos and their opponents averaged 10 and change every game I looked at from last year, unless you count one and two play clock killing kneel downs as actual drives.

rad
03-18-2009, 03:24 PM
Give it up, McDaniels.
The only way the Cheaps come off Cassel is if the Broncos give them Cutler in return which just may happen in this McD-Cassel man crush soap opera gone wild.

KC doesn't want ****ler.

broncocalijohn
03-18-2009, 03:30 PM
KOA just ran a blurb that there is a three way trade under discussion with possibly the redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos fans on the waiting list for season tickets, the waiting list may shortly be decremented by one.

Cool! I actually just put my request for ticket upgrade from South Stands to lower rows or yardage seats. Hope you have two tickets in that area. The light rail rumor was incorrect as there is the same amount of turnover (so far) as there was last year. Let us see if Cutler being traded would make a difference.

broncocalijohn
03-18-2009, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by hilife
what is the site to sign up for season tickets. I figure in 15years i'll save enough to buy them. Also how much do season tickets usually cost


In 15 years, I'm guessing the number will be quite different that what folks are paying this year. Try asking what folks like TGN were paying 15 years ago vs today.

I paid $20 for south stands in the old stadium in 1995 and now pay $77 per ticket but no more benches. Im just hoping I will be paying more once LostKnight drops out of his tickets and I can move in! :giggle:

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 04:06 PM
It wasn't a big deal in weeks one through three, when they were literally lighting up the scoreboard and.....oh yeah....averaging 10 drives per game.

I think your "12 drive average" is off as well.....both the Broncos and their opponents averaged 10 and change every game I looked at from last year, unless you count one and two play clock killing kneel downs as actual drives.

Awesome, I have found the hard facts on this and they (not surprisingly), completely back me up. :approve:

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

Average starting position, dead last.

Number of offensive possessions, 30th of 32.

rastaman
03-18-2009, 04:07 PM
Did you watch NFLTA last night .
They led with 3 stories on teams that want Jay.
I don't trade Cutler unless we get Cassell, a stud D and a pick

I'm thinking McD is saying give me Cassell and a pick, and not so much concerned about a top D player.

Broncos4tw
03-18-2009, 04:14 PM
I think McD was a complete idiot for even initiating all this, but this would be the ONLY saving grace.. getting at least a non-scrub QB that will give our offense a chance in hell. If Jay is gone, he better make this happen.

oubronco
03-18-2009, 04:17 PM
they just said on Jim Rome that McD is still trying to trade for Cassell what a Dipshyt

rastaman
03-18-2009, 04:21 PM
If they trade Cutler, I'd rather see them try to get Brady Quinn & maybe Shaun Rogers and/ or their 1st rounder.

I'd rather see Cutler go to the Lions and the Broncos getting both of Detroits 1st rnd picks this year. This way, Denver can swap the Lions No 1 picks for additional draft picks. McDaniels would be able to build the type team he wants with those additional draft picks. Detroit's 2 first round picks could worth an additional 2 or 3 picks in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds each. Now we are talking an additional 4 to 6 draft picks.

LonghornBronco
03-18-2009, 04:28 PM
they just said on Jim Rome that McD is still trying to trade for Cassell what a Dipshyt

Who said? Damb Okie ;)

Ratboy
03-18-2009, 04:32 PM
/sigh

rastaman
03-18-2009, 04:38 PM
I think McD was a complete idiot for even initiating all this, but this would be the ONLY saving grace.. getting at least a non-scrub QB that will give our offense a chance in hell. If Jay is gone, he better make this happen.

Yep I agree. McD has burnt down half the house....can he save the other half?......it remains to be seen.

rastaman
03-18-2009, 04:40 PM
they just said on Jim Rome that McD is still trying to trade for Cassell what a Dipshyt

McD has proven himself to be a consistent professional liar....he can't help himslef. He is who he is.

elsid13
03-18-2009, 04:47 PM
If thats how it works out, then I think KC is a huge winner. Denver comes in second on that deal.

You haven't watched Campbell play.

OrangeRising
03-18-2009, 04:48 PM
rastaman - "I'd rather see Cutler go to the Lions and the Broncos getting both of Detroits 1st rnd picks this year. This way, Denver can swap the Lions No 1 picks for additional draft picks."

From what I've been reading this year and years past, trading that #1 over-all pick for real value just doesn't happen very often, if ever. At this point, if Denver were to land that #1 pick, they probably had better be ready to exercise it despite the obvious contract/money pitfalls, then maybe trade down from #12 assuming they keep that pick.

lostknight
03-18-2009, 05:00 PM
From what I've been reading this year and years past, trading that #1 over-all pick for real value just doesn't happen very often, if ever. At this point, if Denver were to land that #1 pick, they probably had better be ready to exercise it despite the obvious contract/money pitfalls, then maybe trade down from #12 assuming they keep that pick.

Curry, the only reason to grab the number one pick - seems to be dropping in most of the recent mocks I have seen.

But that being said, if they trade Jay for anything less then two number 1s and a starting QB, it will not be pretty.

Blueflame
03-18-2009, 05:11 PM
McD has proven himself to be a consistent professional liar....he can't help himslef. He is who he is.

Probably why he thrived with the Cheatriots...

DrFate
03-18-2009, 05:12 PM
You haven't watched Campbell play.

I can't imagine any deal where a team ends up with Campbell under center and is considered 'the winner'. :sunshine:

crazyhorse
03-18-2009, 05:43 PM
I wouldn't trade Cassel straight up for Cutler.

Why would we?

Hulamau
03-18-2009, 05:48 PM
McD has proven himself to be a consistent professional liar....he can't help himslef. He is who he is.

God there are a bunch of knuckleheads on ths forum now :stupid:

worm
03-18-2009, 05:49 PM
I wouldn't trade Cassel straight up for Cutler.

Why would we?

You are up kind of late Josh.

OrangeRising
03-18-2009, 05:52 PM
crazyhorse - "I wouldn't trade Cassel straight up for Cutler.

Why would we?"

There so many things wrong with this picture. Even the idea of trading a pro-bowl QB for a back-up is revolting enough. Then to suggest Kansas City wouldn't take the deal were it offered is just too much to comprehend.

i can only hope with all that is holy that this isn't what McDaniels is contemplating. Just the idea of this three-way lunacy with Washington is so far out there, it would make you wonder if Bowlen has completely lost his marbles letting it continue.

rastaman
03-18-2009, 05:52 PM
God there are a bunch of knuckleheads on ths forum now :stupid:

Yes I agree.....you are stupid and gulible! You must be the last of a dying breed.:pimp:

montrose
03-18-2009, 06:00 PM
Does anyone else find it interesting Cassel hasn't signed an extension yet?

elsid13
03-18-2009, 06:04 PM
Does anyone else find it interesting Cassel hasn't signed an extension yet?

I notice that to. There could be two reason for that: One the Chef FO wants to ensure that he isn't a one year wonder. Two, Cassell wants to move on after this season.

OABB
03-18-2009, 06:12 PM
I wouldn't trade Cassel straight up for Cutler.

Why would we?

23745

DaFace
03-18-2009, 06:16 PM
23745

After all this, I can't say I would either.

oubronco
03-18-2009, 06:22 PM
Who said? Damb Okie ;)

I wish the hottie in your avatar

crazyhorse
03-18-2009, 06:23 PM
23745

Yeah, you got me. After all, look what he's doing for the Broncos franchise right now. Who wouldn't want that. He's a real leader that anyone would want on thier team.

You can feel assured.....I dont want him.

OABB
03-18-2009, 06:24 PM
After all this, I can't say I would either.

Maybe Carl Peterson is looking for a young bright person to mentor..

Bob's your Information Minister
03-18-2009, 06:31 PM
If the Chiefs trade for Jason Campbell I'll become a Broncos fan.

OABB
03-18-2009, 06:32 PM
If the Chiefs trade for Jason Campbell I'll become a Broncos fan.

what do you mean become?

Bob's your Information Minister
03-18-2009, 06:36 PM
The only scenario in which I want the Chiefs trading Cassel involves Mark Sanchez or Matt Stafford.

Trading straight up for Cutler would be a dream come true, but a pipe dream.

crazyhorse
03-18-2009, 06:41 PM
The only scenario in which I want the Chiefs trading Cassel involves Mark Sanchez or Matt Stafford.

Trading straight up for Cutler would be a dream come true, but a pipe dream.


Yeah but......you like LJ.

gadlaw
03-18-2009, 06:51 PM
God there are a bunch of knuckleheads on ths forum now :stupid:

Oohh, you are soooo right. McFail isn't anywhere near being a 'consistent' liar. Just a regular, run of the mill liar dude. Dude. :thumbsup:

ZONA
03-18-2009, 07:11 PM
If thats how it works out, then I think KC is a huge winner. Denver comes in second on that deal.

KC would not be a huge winner by giving up Cassel for Campbell and a 3rd round pick. In fact, they won't do it if those are the details.

Broncos obviously would need to land Cassel and at the very least a high 2nd round pick.

Cutler > Cassel

Dedhed
03-18-2009, 07:12 PM
If our offense works at all next year, it will be in spite of McDaniels, not because of him.


Of all the dimwitted banter that's gone on here the last couple of weeks, this is without a doubt the single most idiotic flake of moronic hyperbole to surface.

ZONA
03-18-2009, 07:16 PM
Can the Chiefs franchise tag Cassel next year? I'm asking because he essentially is playing under the 1 year deal NE signed him to. My thought process says that if the Chiefs can't franchise tag him next year, McD would almost for sure not trade Jay this year, and make a shot at getting Cassel next year and trading Jay at that time for picks.

bronco militia
03-18-2009, 07:17 PM
Dave Logan interviewed the reporter from DC that started this rumor...100% speculation based on a source in the redskins front office that claims the redskins are trying to figure out a way to get a cutler in DC. The reporter said he thinks the redskins can not come up with enough compensation for the Broncos so he speculated a 3rd team (chiefs) would have to help.

to add, he mentioned that Shanny is good friends with Vinnie Cerrato and Dan Schneider and don't be surprised to see rumors float around about him coaching the skins if Zorn falters at any point next year.

KyleDelexus
03-18-2009, 07:17 PM
Can the Chiefs franchise tag Cassel next year? I'm asking because he essentially is playing under the 1 year deal NE signed him to. My thought process says that if the Chiefs can't franchise tag him next year, McD would almost for sure not trade Jay this year, and make a shot at getting Cassel next year and trading Jay at that time for picks.

yes they can

garandman
03-18-2009, 07:20 PM
Cerrato shot down this rumor earlier, although that doesnt mean too much I guess

TonyR
03-18-2009, 07:26 PM
Yeah, his track record as a coordinator dropped into the greatest dynasty since the 70s Steelers. Extrapolating that success into a HEAD-coaching job with a different team is problematic, to say the least.

The battlefield of history is littered with the dead bodies of all-star coordinators who failed as head coaches.
.

Fair enough. But if you're not willing to give the offensive coordinator and play caller any credit for the success of the Pats offense over the last couple of years, and wouldn't give him any credit if Denver's offense was successful this coming season, which is what you appear to be suggesting, then you have about zero credibility on this topic.

Ray Finkle
03-18-2009, 07:34 PM
Cerrato shot down this rumor earlier, although that doesnt mean too much I guess

Cerrato also shot down that they would trade for Jason Taylor the day before they did....


I haven't heard anything concrete on this rumor though...

ZONA
03-18-2009, 07:37 PM
Cerrato also shot down that they would trade for Jason Taylor the day before they did....


I haven't heard anything concrete on this rumor though...

OMG, that means it's a done deal then. They are probably just confirming all the details.


ROFL!

TotallyScrewed
03-18-2009, 07:47 PM
Yeah if they want to they can find a way for a one year cap hit. For me I would rather have Cutler but if the rift is too wide you have to do something.

Just out of curiosity...who is the team if it's not the players??

This situation sucks for the TEAM and all you got is...well at least I'll get seats.

Sorry to tell you but you SUCK.

Circle Orange
03-18-2009, 08:13 PM
Cerrato shot down this rumor earlier, although that doesnt mean too much I guess

Too much money ponyed up for Mister Haynesworth. Right now the media has Jay going to virtually every team in the NFL. Unless he can split like an amoeba, I highly doubt that.

Jay to the Vikings
Jay to the Lions
Jay to the Bears
Jay to the Titans
Jay to the Jets
Jay to the Dolphins

and so forth, and so on.

SlipperyPete
03-18-2009, 08:32 PM
The title of this thread is misleading.

The 3-way deal "under discussion" with the Redskins was for Cutler, not for Matt Cassel. The only way Cassel comes into play is that KC was mentioned as the possible third party in the trade, so one could possibly speculate about a drastic swap where Cutler would go to Washington and Cassel would come to Denver.

In that case, both the Skins and Broncos would get the QBs they want. But that scenario would make no sense at all for KC unless they got something like both Denver and Washington's first rounders out of it. Or Washington's first and Denver's second. Or something like that. But why would they give away their QB and do Denver a favor unless they were being handsomely rewarded in the process? That earlier scenario of KC getting Campbell and a 3rd round pick wouldn't come close to cutting it.

Even if there was such a 3-way trade being talked about, though, and even if KC was the third party, there's no guarantee Cassel would be part of it. KC and Washington could be talking about something completely seperate from this situation.

royr17
03-18-2009, 09:59 PM
Now why would Kansas City trade their newly acquired QB ?

Thats just stupid. I wouldnt trade Cassell, I know that McDaniels wants him, but there is obviously a reason why Pioli traded for him and that is because he wants him.

I dont think Pioli is willing to send Cassell to KC or if DEN is willing to send Cutler to KC. That's just stupid.

socalorado
03-18-2009, 10:07 PM
Now why would Kansas City trade their newly acquired QB ?

Thats just stupid. I wouldnt trade Cassell, I know that McDaniels wants him, but there is obviously a reason why Pioli traded for him and that is because he wants him.

I dont think Pioli is willing to send Cassell to KC or if DEN is willing to send Cutler to KC. That's just stupid.

KC could know that Cutler really is as good as advertised, and they want him out of the AFC West ASAP. By making this trade,they get Campbell and Cooley, and DEN loses Cutler.

UboBronco
03-18-2009, 10:09 PM
Can the Chiefs franchise tag Cassel next year? I'm asking because he essentially is playing under the 1 year deal NE signed him to. My thought process says that if the Chiefs can't franchise tag him next year, McD would almost for sure not trade Jay this year, and make a shot at getting Cassel next year and trading Jay at that time for picks.

If KC puts the franchise tag on him next year, I believe it is at 120% of the previous years salary. If they do not get a new contract, they would probably lose him as a free agent, as a new tag I think would be in the 17 million range per year.

Maybe someone on this forum knows more about the salary cap than I do, but that is my understanding.

CSU Husker
03-18-2009, 10:55 PM
KC could know that Cutler really is as good as advertised, and they want him out of the AFC West ASAP. By making this trade,they get Campbell and Cooley, and DEN loses Cutler.

Sure, but it looks like they could just sit there, keep Cassel and still see Cutler exit stage left.

lex
03-18-2009, 11:08 PM
When I listened to Moving The Chains the other day, Pat and Tim addressed some Wash fan who called in by saying that they would need a third team, but pointed to Cleveland as that team.

Beantown Bronco
03-19-2009, 07:34 AM
Awesome, I have found the hard facts on this and they (not surprisingly), completely back me up. :approve:

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

Average starting position, dead last.

Number of offensive possessions, 30th of 32.

That's misleading.

1. Again, it doesn't address my point of why the 10 drive a game average early in the season wasn't a crutch when they were scoring 40 pts per game.

2. Again, the AVERAGE team had 11 drives per game. Not a big difference when you take into account the fact that they are including kneel downs before the half and at the end of games as "drives." It can skew the numbers.

3. You're ignoring the fact that the Broncos were 2nd worst in the league, using that chart, in terms of offensive turnovers. That figure for me is MUCH more indicative of why they didn't score more as opposed to 3 yard difference in field position between them and the average teams and the 7 yard difference in field position between them and the #1 team in the league in starting field position (the Bears BTW.....that great field position didn't help them much).

Tom A Hawk
03-19-2009, 08:10 AM
The title of this thread is misleading.

The 3-way deal "under discussion" with the Redskins was for Cutler, not for Matt Cassel. The only way Cassel comes into play is that KC was mentioned as the possible third party in the trade, so one could possibly speculate about a drastic swap where Cutler would go to Washington and Cassel would come to Denver.

In that case, both the Skins and Broncos would get the QBs they want. But that scenario would make no sense at all for KC unless they got something like both Denver and Washington's first rounders out of it. Or Washington's first and Denver's second. Or something like that. But why would they give away their QB and do Denver a favor unless they were being handsomely rewarded in the process? That earlier scenario of KC getting Campbell and a 3rd round pick wouldn't come close to cutting it.

Even if there was such a 3-way trade being talked about, though, and even if KC was the third party, there's no guarantee Cassel would be part of it. KC and Washington could be talking about something completely seperate from this situation.

good post. Pioli can't be stupid enough to help a division rival. I don't think he and mcdufus are that close

bronco militia
03-19-2009, 08:12 AM
good post. Pioli can't be stupid enough to help a division rival. I don't think he and mcdufus are that close

I posted this last night:

Dave Logan interviewed the reporter from DC that started this rumor...100% speculation based on a source in the redskins front office that claims the redskins are trying to figure out a way to get a cutler in DC. The reporter said he thinks the redskins can not come up with enough compensation for the Broncos so he speculated a 3rd team (chiefs) would have to help.

to add, he mentioned that Shanny is good friends with Vinnie Cerrato and Dan Schneider and don't be surprised to see rumors float around about him coaching the skins if Zorn falters at any point next year.

Dedhed
03-19-2009, 08:15 AM
Acquiring Cassel at this point would make no sense because we will have blown our cover on just how badly we want him, and we'll lose the upper hand in a trade.

The Cassel ship has sailed fellas.

Tom A Hawk
03-19-2009, 08:17 AM
KC could know that Cutler really is as good as advertised, and they want him out of the AFC West ASAP. By making this trade,they get Campbell and Cooley, and DEN loses Cutler.


that makes no sense...we are going to take a never will be QB and a washed up Cooley just so Washington can have Culter and the donx can have Cassel?
very laughable

Tom A Hawk
03-19-2009, 08:20 AM
I posted this last night:

Dave Logan interviewed the reporter from DC that started this rumor...100% speculation based on a source in the redskins front office that claims the redskins are trying to figure out a way to get a cutler in DC. The reporter said he thinks the redskins can not come up with enough compensation for the Broncos so he speculated a 3rd team (chiefs) would have to help.

to add, he mentioned that Shanny is good friends with Vinnie Cerrato and Dan Schneider and don't be surprised to see rumors float around about him coaching the skins if Zorn falters at any point next year.

that is an interesting perspective. I don't see KC the player though. It appears that based on what Washington and Denver want, KC would be stupid unless they are getting a handfull of 1st round picks this year.
The speculation about Cleveland being a player makes a little more sense.

Dedhed
03-19-2009, 08:20 AM
KC could know that Cutler really is as good as advertised, and they want him out of the AFC West ASAP. By making this trade,they get Campbell and Cooley, and DEN loses Cutler.

Dude, what have you done with Socal? This is just ridiculous.

socalorado
03-19-2009, 08:20 AM
Acquiring Cassel at this point would make no sense because we will have blown our cover on just how badly we want him, and we'll lose the upper hand in a trade.

The Cassel ship has sailed fellas.

Teams knowing DEN wants Matt Cassell is irrelevent. All of these rumors are based on how bad a team wants Jay Cutler and what they are willing to give or make happen to get him that is in question. Its amazing really.
Whatever happens, no fan of another team will ever be able to say that Cutler is not one of the most highly thought of, elite, up and coming QBs in the league. I mean this thing is exausting, and we are just reading rumors!

socalorado
03-19-2009, 08:23 AM
that makes no sense...we are going to take a never will be QB and a washed up Cooley just so Washington can have Culter and the donx can have Cassel?
very laughable
Exactly it makes no sense!
Again, we are talking about KC here.
Theyve made some of the dumbest moves ever when it comes to QBs.
:thumbsup:

Circle Orange
03-19-2009, 08:24 AM
that makes no sense...we are going to take a never will be QB and a washed up Cooley just so Washington can have Culter and the donx can have Cassel?
very laughable

LOL, Cooley washed up?

And why would the skins need a qb trade? Cambell also has a cannon arm and mobility (see specs). And is unproven in the long run. the only difference is that he's been in several offensive systems already.

Tom A Hawk
03-19-2009, 08:28 AM
Exactly it makes no sense!
Again, we are talking about KC here.
Theyve made some of the dumbest moves ever when it comes to QBs.
:thumbsup:

can't argue with that but I am thinking those times have come and gone....hopefully.

royr17
03-19-2009, 02:14 PM
The only way I would want KC to trade Cassell to DEN is for Cutler, if not then I wouldnt make that deal.

WAS gets Cutler, DEN gets Cassell, KC gets Campbell, loser in the trade would be KC cause I dont think Campbell is that good.

Captain 'Dre
03-22-2009, 07:35 AM
Two weeks ago, McDaniels was willing to trade him for Cassel and a pick. Since Cassel was eventually traded for a 2nd round pick, that means Cutler's market value 2 weeks ago was a 2nd rounder and another pick.

Yesterday, Pat Kirwan said Cutler's market value, even after all the crap, was two firsts and a player.

Obviously, logic would seem to be on your side....but apparently logic isn't in charge in the NFL. Seems to me his value has never been higher.

I hear ya, man. We'll have to see what kind of deal comes down.

But if I were GM of another team, I'd have some serious misgivings about bringing Jay Cutler in, based on two things

(1) Jay's attitude and behavior regarding the 'trade inquiry' fiasco. And given this...

(2) There is no more 'benefit of the doubt' with Jay Cutler. John Madden and Al Michaels did their best on that final SNF broadcast to polish some of Jay's turds, but it's increasingly clear that Jay really has been a dick.

In light of his baby-ish response the departures of Bates and Shanahan, Cutler's criticism of Philip Rivers is now all the more embarrassing, as is his completely unprofessional demeanor all-too-often in post game interviews.

There's only so long that you can rationalize immature behavior as an indication of 'competitiveness' or 'intensity' or 'desire'. After a while, it's clear that the behavior is simply unprofessional and immature.

IMO, it's a huge risk to try to build your team around a guy like that, and if I'm a GM, trading for Jay Cutler would NOT be my first option. Then, if I decided I was willing to take the risk, I wouldn't give up the farm to do it.

We'll see.

baja
03-22-2009, 07:51 AM
I hear ya, man. We'll have to see what kind of deal comes down.

But if I were GM of another team, I'd have some serious misgivings about bringing Jay Cutler in, based on two things

(1) Jay's attitude and behavior regarding the 'trade inquiry' fiasco. And given this...

(2) There is no more 'benefit of the doubt' with Jay Cutler. John Madden and Al Michaels did their best on that final SNF broadcast to polish some of Jay's turds, but it's increasingly clear that Jay really has been a dick.

In light of his baby-ish response the departures of Bates and Shanahan, Cutler's criticism of Philip Rivers is now all the more embarrassing, as is his completely unprofessional demeanor all-too-often in post game interviews.

There's only so long that you can rationalize immature behavior as an indication of 'competitiveness' or 'intensity' or 'desire'. After a while, it's clear that the behavior is simply unprofessional and immature.

IMO, it's a huge risk to try to build your team around a guy like that, and if I'm a GM, trading for Jay Cutler would NOT be my first option. Then, if I decided I was willing to take the risk, I wouldn't give up the farm to do it.

We'll see.

All this pales in light of what Kaylore said, "Cutler sits alone and drinks to get drunk". Been there done than and trust me that is a big fat red flag and if true I would insist he join a 12 step program or I would trade him.