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View Full Version : To all of you siding with McD: Krieger: Back up, cool off, hold on to Cutler


broncofan7
03-18-2009, 06:45 AM
He is making the same points that I have been:

1) The orgnaization is at fault for causing this as they allowed their trade inquiries to become public thereby enciting the fragile ego of the QB--basically, if Jay nevers finds out ---this episode never happens
2) Once Jay did find out, McD failed to acknowledge the fact that the Broncos were active in discussions
3) you DO NOT trade franchise Qb's coming off 4500 yarsd and 25 TD entering his THIRD full year of starting---IMHO not unless we get a Herschel Walker type deal--and that ain't happenin'
4) What has Josh McDaniels done that Mangini, Crennell hadn't? --coached a QB who had weapons left over from the previous season that had set a record pace for points and allowed that QB to play well above expectations but well below their previous years totals.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11936913


And now, just to try something completely different, how about a little common sense?

If all the tough guys down at Dove Valley have gotten their ya-yas out, could we take a break from the posturing to examine this thing through the law of supply and demand?

Which is easier to replace, a 25-year-old Pro Bowl quarterback or a 32-year-old rookie coach?

No contest. There are thousands of football coaches out there who have never won an NFL game, hundreds with an NFL assistant's job on the resume, dozens with a coordinator's job.

At present, there are exactly three 25-year-old quarterbacks with a Pro Bowl on the resume. Eliminate the two who were injury replacements — Vince Young in 2007 and Derek Anderson in 2008 — and there is exactly one. His name is Jay Cutler.

So rather than throw up his hands in resignation as if this ill-advised soap opera is an act of God outside his control, perhaps owner Pat Bowlen should check his Dove Valley ID card. He's in charge. At least, that's what he keeps telling us. So here's a thought: Maybe it's time he acted like it.

He can start with this: Cutler not showing up for voluntary offseason workouts is not a big deal unless the Broncos make it one. If the Broncos can teach Cutler the meaning of the word "employee" by talking about trading him, Cutler can teach the Broncos the meaning of the word "voluntary" by not attending voluntary workouts. If it's a business, it's a business.

It's the Broncos, not Cutler, who elected to take the rah-rah out of it.

Contrary to popular belief, Cutler and Josh McDaniels don't have to love each other. They don't even have to like each other. As George Karl pointed out the other day, he and Kenyon Martin were at war three years ago. Now they're fine. Sometimes, everyone just has to chill.

Cutler is under contract for three more years. He could force the issue by refusing to show for mandatory camps, but he said he doesn't plan to do that.

Being outraged by the spoiled star athlete is more fashionable than usual these days, so feel free to take your shots, but Cutler is also the principal victim of a spate of rookie coaching mistakes.

Even if you have no problem with the merits of Cutler-for- Matt Cassel — and I do — McDaniels' first big boo-boo was not coming clean about it. As recently as Sunday night, he was still claiming "we were contacted multiple times about different scenarios," as if the Broncos were in a purely passive role, just answering the phone.

Earth to Josh: Almost no one believes that. Cutler has information that you approached the Bucs to gauge their interest in a potential three-way deal with the Patriots. The story doesn't make much sense any other way. Why would Tampa Bay approach Denver? What would make Bucs management think the Broncos' Pro Bowl quarterback was available? Why would New England call Tampa Bay to rustle up interest in a three-way deal when the Patriots were clearly happy with the deal they had in place with Kansas City, a deal they ultimately made?

This was the crux of the problem between McDaniels and Cutler. McDaniels was not truthful about his active pursuit of Cassel. By the time he finally admitted to Cutler on Saturday that he wanted Cassel, it was time to turn the page and assure Cutler they could go forward together. Unless, of course, McDaniels actually thinks he can improve upon Cutler with relative ease. If so, Bowlen needs to examine whether his own opinion of Cutler the quarterback has changed as dramatically as his organization's.

Let me just say this: In his first 37 starts, 54 touchdowns and 37 interceptions. And he's just getting the hang of it.

The Broncos' owner is older than his coach and his QB put together. His last chance to retain the guy he calls his "star quarterback" is to take the reins and hold them steady. Let tempers cool. Call the trade attempt and skipping the voluntary workouts a wash. Give everybody a month to settle down.

Just because McDaniels mishandled this episode does not mean the Broncos have to trade their franchise quarterback. Those guys are hard to find.

Dave Krieger: 303-954-5297 or dkrieger@denverpost.com

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 06:50 AM
Kreiger earns some good faith.

Dave, I take back the last time I called you a douche. Keep up the good work and we'll be square in no time!

Broncojef
03-18-2009, 06:50 AM
Jay is innocent, he's the best ever, we can't win without him, I don't mind his whining, how dare mcD answer phone calls, he should tell Jay everything always, where is Bowlen, blah blah blah... just trade his ass and be done with it already.

lostknight
03-18-2009, 06:53 AM
I've given up seeing any sanity from this board. Good to see the press is a bit more sane. (now CBF1 and POPPS have to neg-rep me).

I did listen to him on KOA yesterday. He had good points. The bottom line is that McDaniels really is picking the wrong fight here. McDaniels wants to prove he is boss. Going after the one part of the team that works (as opposed to the running game, special teams, and defense) seems a stupid way to go about it.

What we have then are two children bickering, and no adults around to keep them in line. Pat Bowler allowed McDaniels to get rid of the Goodmans, Pat Bowlen and company gave Cutler a excuse to walk away from his commitments by opening the door first. That means they need to do the right thing to fix the situation.

broncofan7
03-18-2009, 06:56 AM
Jay is innocent, he's the best ever, we can't win without him, I don't mind his whining, how dare mcD answer phone calls, he should tell Jay everything always, where is Bowlen, blah blah blah... just trade his ass and be done with it already.


Star players, QB in particular>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HC, especially one with NO TRACK RECORD AS A HC. This isn't Bill Parcells coming to town telling Jay he needs to 'get with the program'
..this is Josh 'Wade Phillips-I really am a 2 year stop gap until we get a real coach in here' McDaniels

SouthStndJunkie
03-18-2009, 06:56 AM
I agree with Krieger's suggestions in the article.

Cool off and let things settle down.

Cutler will come in and play.

Man-Goblin
03-18-2009, 07:00 AM
I agree with Krieger's suggestions in the article.

Cool off and let things settle down.

Cutler will come in and play.

I hope so, but this article completely ignores the agent and the $$$$ influence on the whole situation.

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 07:08 AM
I hope so, but this article completely ignores the agent and the $$$$ influence on the whole situation.

You're right. It's primary focus is on the cause and not the effect.

HEAV
03-18-2009, 07:11 AM
Use existing threads... stop trying to be Mr. Special "I have a new view point on a subject talked to death about!"

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 07:33 AM
Good article, thanks for posting it.

outdoor_miner
03-18-2009, 07:50 AM
Good Lord - It is pretty simple why teams would call Denver about Cassel... It was widely known that McDaniels was Cassel's OC last year! They had great success together! Now McDaniels is the Head Coach of the Denver Broncos. Maybe, just maybe, he would be willing to trade Cutler for Cassel (plus additional compensation). Why is it so shocking that another NFL team would try this angle? From what I have seen, we (the fans) still have no clue as to what really happened. Was McDaniels shopping Cutler, or did he receive an offer that was so good he had to consider?

spdirty
03-18-2009, 07:52 AM
yep, Krieger nails it. I still dont think this situation is completely unfixable. I think the best thing to do is to fly to Tennessee, and sit with Jay until the entire situation is resolved...if that means contract extension, fine.

Second best thing to do is let him sit there, do not trade him, and when he shows up to the mandatory shlt then cool...if not, then that means Cutler lied, he loses his leverage, and the heat shifts over to Cutler. But since he has never shown to be a liar I expect him to be there for all mandatory team functions and hopefully time will heal all wounds.

Ratboy
03-18-2009, 07:57 AM
This was an excellent read.

Rep goes to Krieger!

Irish Stout
03-18-2009, 08:04 AM
This is pretty much my position from the word go. Who the hell are we going to bring in thats better than JC? How long will we have to wait for another QB who is anything close to JC quality?

On a side note - anyone consider if we do end up trading JC would we possibly try and deal with KC directly to get Cassell?

TonyR
03-18-2009, 08:21 AM
I hope so, but this article completely ignores the agent and the $$$$ influence on the whole situation.

I was thinking the same thing. Good article over all but a little too slanted in favor of Cutler. Not only does it ignore the Bus Cook angle but it also ignores the possibility that Jay/Cook asked for a trade before this all went down (after Shanny and Bates left). In addition, it ingores both the possibility that teams DID approach Denver and not the other way around (although I've been skeptical about this from the beginning) and it also leaves out the possibility that Jay isn't just posturing and really does want out.

I want this to work out and for Jay to stay. But Bus Cook is making that a difficult propostion. If he won't let his client sit down with McD and/or the Broncos FO without meddling then I don't see how this ever gets resolved. It's going to take some compromise and right now it doesn't appear either side is willing to do so.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 08:25 AM
I've given up seeing any sanity from this board. Good to see the press is a bit more sane. (now CBF1 and POPPS have to neg-rep me).

I did listen to him on KOA yesterday. He had good points. The bottom line is that McDaniels really is picking the wrong fight here. McDaniels wants to prove he is boss. Going after the one part of the team that works (as opposed to the running game, special teams, and defense) seems a stupid way to go about it.

What we have then are two children bickering, and no adults around to keep them in line. Pat Bowler allowed McDaniels to get rid of the Goodmans, Pat Bowlen and company gave Cutler a excuse to walk away from his commitments by opening the door first. That means they need to do the right thing to fix the situation.

Are you ****ing kidding me? McDaniels is picking a fight? By wanting to meet face to face with Cutler? By stating over and over again that "WE ARE NOT TRADING JAY CUTLER"? By wanting an opportunity to talk to Cutler without his snake oil salesman agent in the room? Are you ****ing KIDDING me?

I don't see what "the right thing to fix the situation" would even be at this point. Cutler apparently won't come back to Denver unless he's given the Governor's mansion, a parade in his honor, and his face etched in the gold atop the capital building.

Give me a ****ing break.

Since you know so much about the situation, why don't you tell all of us exactly the things that McDaniels needs to do to fix the situation.

Broncojef
03-18-2009, 08:28 AM
Star players, QB in particular>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HC, especially one with NO TRACK RECORD AS A HC. This isn't Bill Parcells coming to town telling Jay he needs to 'get with the program'
..this is Josh 'Wade Phillips-I really am a 2 year stop gap until we get a real coach in here' McDaniels

Disagree the QB can get with the program or move along. Nice to see a coach in here finally who won't put up with all the crap thats been tearing the team apart lately. Rod Smith and other vocal leaders gave us insight into the problems before they left and nothing was addressed until Shanahan got fired. I'd rather see a winning team in Denver than standing in awe at half of Jay's games wondering why we are still .500. Speculating on McDaniels coaching is absolutely ridiculous at this point once he cleans house and sets up the system he wants I think he'll have huge success and be the cornerstone of this franchise for a long time.

Lolad
03-18-2009, 08:30 AM
Yes McIdiot started all of this. If he just stuck to fixing what was broken the DEFENSE then we would've never been in this whole mess. Now we are looking at drafting QB's in the 1st round instead of the DL. How many of you even thought about drafting a damn QB in the 1st round after the season we just had?

Point proven. Bye!

skpac1001
03-18-2009, 08:34 AM
1) The orgnaization is at fault for causing this as they allowed their trade inquiries to become public thereby enciting the fragile ego of the QB--basically, if Jay nevers finds out ---this episode never happens
There is no evidence that I know that this was leaked from the Bronco side. I am not sure how McDaniels is supposed to prevent other teams from talking. If there is a mistake, it is in not getting the trade done before rumors get out.
2) Once Jay did find out, McD failed to acknowledge the fact that the Broncos were active in discussions
Personally, I think McD has handled everything after the initial trade talks extremely professionally, but whatever.
3) you DO NOT trade franchise Qb's coming off 4500 yarsd and 25 TD entering his THIRD full year of starting---IMHO not unless we get a Herschel Walker type deal--and that ain't happenin'
How exactly do you find out if you are getting a Herschel Walker deal if you don't listen? Besides, he didn't trade him so I guess he agrees with you.
4) What has Josh McDaniels done that Mangini, Crennell hadn't? --coached a QB who had weapons left over from the previous season that had set a record pace for points and allowed that QB to play well above expectations but well below their previous years totals.
Josh McDaniels has not accomplished anything in the regular season as a HC. Because he hasn't been there yet. He shouldn't get credit for that, but it shouldn't be held against him either. He will prove himself, or not, this season, and we have already hired him so it doesn't make sense to me to say he hasn't proven himself, if that was an issue we shouldn't have hired him, but once he was hired that argument is meaningless. Either he is the head coach or he isn't.

Overall though I agree with the thought that we shouldn't give up on Jay yet. Personally, I think as long as Jay keeps out of the media for the next month or so and shows up at the minicamp, he will be our starting qb next season, unless a Walker deal does show up.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 08:37 AM
1) The orgnaization is at fault for causing this as they allowed their trade inquiries to become public thereby enciting the fragile ego of the QB--basically, if Jay nevers finds out ---this episode never happens
There is no evidence that I know that this was leaked from the Bronco side. I am not sure how McDaniels is supposed to prevent other teams from talking. If there is a mistake, it is in not getting the trade done before rumors get out.


Actually, there is evidence to the contrary. The story broke in the Boston Globe. Gee, who could possibly be behind that?

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/belichick-fined.JPG

missingnumber7
03-18-2009, 08:38 AM
I can think of one, two or maybe even three quality coaches who are available.

broncofan7
03-18-2009, 08:41 AM
If this is about money only, extend him NOW. I really don't think that it is though. Cutler probably is a petulent child, but he threw for 4500 yards and 25 TD'ss in his 2nd full season as a starter. It's like when you are married to a really good looking woman who happens to have some faults, like being bad with money..you tend to overlook it as long as she looks good. (Does that make me shallow?) He brings too much to the table to not keep him and basically cave into his demands.

Popps
03-18-2009, 08:46 AM
This all rehash of the same ****.

Whether or not it was the staff's fault, the ball is now in Cutler's court. He has to either grow up and do his job, or continue to make himself a distraction. (Demanding a trade.)

Rewarding Cutler for this behavior would have implications that my be insurmountable for the staff/front office. So, if Jay wants to do his job... all he has to do.... is do his job.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 08:47 AM
This all rehash of the same ****.

Whether or not it was the staff's fault, the ball is now in Cutler's court. He has to either grow up and do his job, or continue to make himself a distraction. (Demanding a trade.)

Rewarding Cutler for this behavior would have implications that my be insurmountable for the staff/front office. So, if Jay wants to do his job... all he has to do.... is do his job.

Absolutely right. he claims he wants to be here. So be here.

Pretty simple really.

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 08:51 AM
This all rehash of the same ****.

Whether or not it was the staff's fault, the ball is now in Cutler's court. He has to either grow up and do his job, or continue to make himself a distraction. (Demanding a trade.)

Rewarding Cutler for this behavior would have implications that my be insurmountable for the staff/front office. So, if Jay wants to do his job... all he has to do.... is do his job.

Please explain how the ball is in Cutler's court?

He's expressed his displeasure with the trade rumors and McD lying, and he's formally requested a trade AND said he would show up to all mandatory team activities.

So........ where do you get the ball is in his court?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 08:54 AM
Please explain how the ball is in Cutler's court?

He's expressed his displeasure with the trade rumors and McD lying, and he's formally requested a trade AND said he would show up to all mandatory team activities.

So........ where do you get the ball is in his court?

It's pretty simple, really. He also said he wants to be a Bronco. He can show up and be a Bronco if he wants.

McD can't MAKE him show up for mandatory minicamp, and honestly, I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if he didn't.

You say you want to be a Bronco, Jay. So show up and be a ****ing Bronco.

Northman
03-18-2009, 08:56 AM
I dont get it? What part of Jay ASKING for a trade does Krieger not understand here? Is he really this moronic? McDaniels has already said he isnt trading him. Now if Cutler wants to sit out or try and force his hand how is it McD's fault at that point if Jay ends up being traded?

Popps
03-18-2009, 08:57 AM
Please explain how the ball is in Cutler's court?

He's expressed his displeasure with the trade rumors and McD lying, and he's formally requested a trade AND said he would show up to all mandatory team activities.

So........ where do you get the ball is in his court?

He can "express" as much "displeasure" as he wants.

He has a contract to honor. The staff has requested he honor it. The last word out of Dove Valley was simply... "we could be good for each other" (McDaniels) and a collective request for Jay to simply do his job.

Who the flying **** cares if his ass is tender because they tried to trade him. Are you serious with that?

The ball is in Jay Cutler's court. He can honor his contract and fulfill his duty to his job, teammates and fans... or he can continue to make himself a distraction by demanding a trade.

Northman
03-18-2009, 08:59 AM
He can "express" as much "displeasure" as he wants.

He has a contract to honor. The staff has requested he honor it. The last word out of Dove Valley was simply... "we could be good for each other" (McDaniels) and a collective request for Jay to simply do his job.

Who the flying **** cares if his ass is tender because they tried to trade him. Are you serious with that?

The ball is in Jay Cutler's court. He can honor his contract and fulfill his duty to his job, teammates and fans... or he can continue to make himself a distraction by demanding a trade.


End thread.

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 09:04 AM
He can "express" as much "displeasure" as he wants.

He has a contract to honor. The staff has requested he honor it. The last word out of Dove Valley was simply... "we could be good for each other" (McDaniels) and a collective request for Jay to simply do his job.

Who the flying **** cares if his ass is tender because they tried to trade him. Are you serious with that?

The ball is in Jay Cutler's court. He can honor his contract and fulfill his duty to his job, teammates and fans... or he can continue to make himself a distraction by demanding a trade.

Are you this dense? He's SAID he'll honor his contract by attending all mandatory team events.

MinneCofan
03-18-2009, 09:09 AM
I can't believe a genuine Bronco fan would even try to rationalize trading Jay after all of the RELEVANT statistical analysis that has come to light during this stand off.

There was the article referencing the fact that Jay in 2 1/2 years has played in like 16 games in which his D gave up 30+ pts. During McNabb's 8-9 years he has only played in something like 18. Cannot remember who wrote the article but it has been posted on several times in here.

And now Kirwan brings some more evidence of Jay's abilities:
Other interesting facts about Cutler:
He guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.
He was No. 1 in fewest percentage of sacks, with 11 in 627 pass plays. That equates to one sack every 57 pass attempts.
He was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down. The average NFL team converted 39.5 percent of its third downs; Cutler converted 47.5 percent.
He was No. 3 in the AFC in yards per pass play (7.3).
He threw for more yards than Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/profile?id=MAN515097), Eli Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/profile?id=MAN473170), Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/profile?id=MCN017517), Philip Rivers (http://www.nfl.com/players/philiprivers/profile?id=RIV651634), Tony Romo (http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyromo/profile?id=ROM787981) and Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.nfl.com/players/benroethlisberger/profile?id=ROE750381), to name a few.
He had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season: Peyton Hillis (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/profile?id=HIL734134) (129 against the Jets) and Michael Pittman (http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelpittman/profile?id=PIT226738) (109 against the Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC)).
He had eight games of 300-plus passing yards (five of those at 350 or more), connecting for 15 touchdowns in those contests.
Sure, he threw 18 interceptions, which is unacceptable, but his ratio of picks to attempts was 1:34, which tells a slightly different story. Last season, Brees had an interception every 37 pass attempts. Favre's ratio was 1:23, and Roethlisberger's was 1:31. Cutler's career ratio is 1:33.
Only Jacksonville's David Garrard (http://www.nfl.com/players/davidgarrard/profile?id=GAR371604) threw more passes in the fourth quarter of games than Cutler, who completed 100 of 167 passes for 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns with just four interceptions.

This whole thing is so ridiculous. Please Bronco fans leave the guy alone and Please, Please McDink make the necessary move to keep this future ring bearer and Please, Please, Please Mr Bowlen make sure of one thing.....Jay is OUR guy.

I am not at all saying Jay isnt and hasnt acted immature (which is likely an understatement). I am just saying to trade this guy could go down as one of the worst personnel moves in NFL history. And that is coming from a guy living in MN who saw Mike Lynn give the Cowboys a bunch of nose-powdering Champs in exchange for a RB.......

Stay with Jay!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 09:10 AM
Are you this dense? He's SAID he'll honor his contract by attending all mandatory team events.

He also SAID he'd be at the non-mandatory off season workouts. He isn't.

I'll believe it when I see it.

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 09:13 AM
He also SAID he'd be at the non-mandatory off season workouts. He isn't.

I'll believe it when I see it.

He was also expecting the situation to get worked out by then. McDaniels fumbled the ball... again. Personally, I don't think he should show up until training camp.

Northman
03-18-2009, 09:16 AM
I can't believe a genuine Bronco fan would even try to rationalize trading Jay after all of the RELEVANT statistical analysis that has come to light during this stand off.

There was the article referencing the fact that Jay in 2 1/2 years has played in like 16 games in which his D gave up 30+ pts. During McNabb's 8-9 years he has only played in something like 18. Cannot remember who wrote the article but it has been posted on several times in here.

And now Kirwan brings some more evidence of Jay's abilities:
Other interesting facts about Cutler:
He guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.
He was No. 1 in fewest percentage of sacks, with 11 in 627 pass plays. That equates to one sack every 57 pass attempts.
He was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down. The average NFL team converted 39.5 percent of its third downs; Cutler converted 47.5 percent.
He was No. 3 in the AFC in yards per pass play (7.3).
He threw for more yards than Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/profile?id=MAN515097), Eli Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/profile?id=MAN473170), Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/profile?id=MCN017517), Philip Rivers (http://www.nfl.com/players/philiprivers/profile?id=RIV651634), Tony Romo (http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyromo/profile?id=ROM787981) and Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.nfl.com/players/benroethlisberger/profile?id=ROE750381), to name a few.
He had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season: Peyton Hillis (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/profile?id=HIL734134) (129 against the Jets) and Michael Pittman (http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelpittman/profile?id=PIT226738) (109 against the Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC)).
He had eight games of 300-plus passing yards (five of those at 350 or more), connecting for 15 touchdowns in those contests.
Sure, he threw 18 interceptions, which is unacceptable, but his ratio of picks to attempts was 1:34, which tells a slightly different story. Last season, Brees had an interception every 37 pass attempts. Favre's ratio was 1:23, and Roethlisberger's was 1:31. Cutler's career ratio is 1:33.
Only Jacksonville's David Garrard (http://www.nfl.com/players/davidgarrard/profile?id=GAR371604) threw more passes in the fourth quarter of games than Cutler, who completed 100 of 167 passes for 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns with just four interceptions.

This whole thing is so ridiculous. Please Bronco fans leave the guy alone and Please, Please McDink make the necessary move to keep this future ring bearer and Please, Please, Please Mr Bowlen make sure of one thing.....Jay is OUR guy.

I am not at all saying Jay isnt and hasnt acted immature (which is likely an understatement). I am just saying to trade this guy could go down as one of the worst personnel moves in NFL history. And that is coming from a guy living in MN who saw Mike Lynn give the Cowboys a bunch of nose-powdering Champs in exchange for a RB.......

Stay with Jay!


I cant believe a Bronco fan doesnt understand that its JAY asking for the trade.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 09:18 AM
He was also expecting the situation to get worked out by then. McDaniels fumbled the ball... again. Personally, I don't think he should show up until training camp.

He was expecting the situation to get worked out... at the meeting, right? I remember that yarn.

Which explains why he put his house on the market two days prior.

he's full of ****.

Rabb
03-18-2009, 09:26 AM
I can't believe a genuine Bronco fan would even try to rationalize trading Jay after all of the RELEVANT statistical analysis that has come to light during this stand off.

stats don't reflect his behavior with this, or the obvious agenda him and Bus have brewing

I am a die hard fan and will support the team 100% no matter who is under center, so save the dramatics


He guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.


This argument is getting so tired, we were 16th in scoring which is all that matters


He was No. 1 in fewest percentage of sacks, with 11 in 627 pass plays. That equates to one sack every 57 pass attempts.


Thank the offensive line for most of that


He was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down. The average NFL team converted 39.5 percent of its third downs; Cutler converted 47.5 percent.
He was No. 3 in the AFC in yards per pass play (7.3).
He threw for more yards than Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/profile?id=MAN515097), Eli Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/profile?id=MAN473170), Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/profile?id=MCN017517), Philip Rivers (http://www.nfl.com/players/philiprivers/profile?id=RIV651634), Tony Romo (http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyromo/profile?id=ROM787981) and Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.nfl.com/players/benroethlisberger/profile?id=ROE750381), to name a few.


again, with 16th place points to show for it...and 3 of them won super bowls, one of them this year


He had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season: Peyton Hillis (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/profile?id=HIL734134) (129 against the Jets) and Michael Pittman (http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelpittman/profile?id=PIT226738) (109 against the Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC)).


This may be the only part I would defend him with personally


He had eight games of 300-plus passing yards (five of those at 350 or more), connecting for 15 touchdowns in those contests.
Sure, he threw 18 interceptions, which is unacceptable, but his ratio of picks to attempts was 1:34, which tells a slightly different story. Last season, Brees had an interception every 37 pass attempts. Favre's ratio was 1:23, and Roethlisberger's was 1:31. Cutler's career ratio is 1:33.
Only Jacksonville's David Garrard (http://www.nfl.com/players/davidgarrard/profile?id=GAR371604) threw more passes in the fourth quarter of games than Cutler, who completed 100 of 167 passes for 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns with just four interceptions.


Stats are wonderful, results are even better. 16th in scoring, there is a stat for you. And of those 18 interceptions, how many completely deflated drives and momentum?

The Cutler man love is just amazing. Listen I like Cutler and want him to stay as our QB but defending this situation with stats like this just makes no sense to me. It has nothing to do with the way Jay is being a baby and his agent is playing hardball and clearly lobbying for a trade. Has McDaniels ever said his stats were not impressive? As a matter of fact he said recently they would be good together. This reminds me of hearing how much being an All-Star meant to Carmelo Anthony, and how it hurt the team with him thinking like that.

then again these numbers are great for Bus to use when shopping Jay

MinneCofan
03-18-2009, 09:30 AM
I cant believe a Bronco fan doesnt understand that its JAY asking for the trade.

Your right, but I undertand that it's more likely Mr. Crook is asking for said trade.

You are pry right, let's trade him and draft one of QB's in this years draft, who according to almost every draft expert (I use that lightly as most of them are just blowhards) sholdn't even crack the 1st round. Yeah let's go get one of them there Junior QB's and hope upon hope they aren't like a majority of 1st round Qb's, career backups. Great idea. And good fansmanship.

colonelbeef
03-18-2009, 09:34 AM
hell of an article, 100% accurate, Krieger just gained a reader here.


Jay is innocent, he's the best ever, we can't win without him, I don't mind his whining, how dare mcD answer phone calls, he should tell Jay everything always, where is Bowlen, blah blah blah... just trade his ass and be done with it already.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried really, really hard

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 09:44 AM
He was expecting the situation to get worked out... at the meeting, right? I remember that yarn.

Which explains why he put his house on the market two days prior.

he's full of ****.

:spit:

If he's full of ****, then what is McDaniels? The guy who's caught in lies with his own public quotes?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 09:52 AM
:spit:

If he's full of ****, then what is McDaniels? The guy who's caught in lies with his own public quotes?

Still waitin' on that proof, Rev.

We have proof that Cutler lies. Puts his house on the market Thursday, meets with McDaniels Saturday, then says he was really hoping it could all be worked out.

Someone's pants are on fire.

skpac1001
03-18-2009, 09:55 AM
He was also expecting the situation to get worked out by then. McDaniels fumbled the ball... again. Personally, I don't think he should show up until training camp.

What is the reasoning on showing up only for training camp, as opposed to minicamps? I can see it from a forcing a trade point of view, but otherwise I would think the decision to attend minicamp and the decision to attend training camp are linked.

Northman
03-18-2009, 09:57 AM
Your right, but I undertand that it's more likely Mr. Crook is asking for said trade.

You are pry right, let's trade him and draft one of QB's in this years draft, who according to almost every draft expert (I use that lightly as most of them are just blowhards) sholdn't even crack the 1st round. Yeah let's go get one of them there Junior QB's and hope upon hope they aren't like a majority of 1st round Qb's, career backups. Great idea. And good fansmanship.

I never mentioned anything about drafting a QB. At least this year.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2009, 09:57 AM
He is making the same points that I have been:



To agree with the article you first have to agree that Jay is a "franchise" type QB. I'm getting very skeptical that he is indeed that. I'd just as soon see him get traded now when his value is high, because I think his career will go downhill from here on.

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 10:00 AM
Still waitin' on that proof, Rev.

We have proof that Cutler lies. Puts his house on the market Thursday, meets with McDaniels Saturday, then says he was really hoping it could all be worked out.

Someone's pants are on fire.

No, you're not.

A few days ago his stance was "We only answered calls"
Now it's "We were too late to the dance."

Pretend all you want. There's a lot of gray area, but his words are in black and white.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 10:04 AM
No, you're not.

A few days ago his stance was "We only answered calls"
Now it's "We were too late to the dance."

Pretend all you want. There's a lot of gray area, but his words are in black and white.

And you assume from a completely innocuous quote like "we were too late to the dance" that he actively shopped Cutler. It's not necessarily the case.

"We only answered calls." Fine. Great. They might have even made a counter offer, saying "we need this and this and that before we'd even consider." By the time that counter was made, the dance was over. They were too late, and Cassel was a Chief.

His words are in black and white, but that gray area you speak of is the truth of the matter, which neither you or I or anyone on this board knows. So yes, we're still waiting on the proof.

SportinOne
03-18-2009, 10:05 AM
Use existing threads... stop trying to be Mr. Special "I have a new view point on a subject talked to death about!"

It's a new article. As far as I know we make new threads for new articles here.

Mr. Special? a little projection perhaps?

colonelbeef
03-18-2009, 10:05 AM
To agree with the article you first have to agree that Jay is a "franchise" type QB. I'm getting very skeptical that he is indeed that. I'd just as soon see him get traded now when his value is high, because I think his career will go downhill from here on.

Haha! What else do you plan on being totally wrong about today?

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 10:10 AM
And you assume from a completely innocuous quote like "we were too late to the dance" that he actively shopped Cutler. It's not necessarily the case.

"We only answered calls." Fine. Great. They might have even made a counter offer, saying "we need this and this and that before we'd even consider." By the time that counter was made, the dance was over. They were too late, and Cassel was a Chief.

His words are in black and white, but that gray area you speak of is the truth of the matter, which neither you or I or anyone on this board knows. So yes, we're still waiting on the proof.

Wow.

Do you hurt your back when you reach that far for that interpretation?

Drek
03-18-2009, 10:12 AM
If this is about money only, extend him NOW. I really don't think that it is though. Cutler probably is a petulent child, but he threw for 4500 yards and 25 TD'ss in his 2nd full season as a starter. It's like when you are married to a really good looking woman who happens to have some faults, like being bad with money..you tend to overlook it as long as she looks good. (Does that make me shallow?) He brings too much to the table to not keep him and basically cave into his demands.

McDaniels won't cave. That goes against the entire organizational philosophy he's trying to install here.

An organizational philosophy we desperately need to adopt, FYI. The Steelers and Patriots work within it and have been successful through injuries. The Falcons and Dolphins have brought people in to now install it and they both executed lightening fast turnarounds.

Pandering to a franchise player does pay off for a period of time, assuming that player does actually become elite (not all do) you then have a window of greatness, like what the Colts are in now and what the Packers were in while Favre was in his prime. But when those guys hang it up you lose the entire reason your franchise was great. If you build an organizational hierarchy that is itself successful then you're consistently great regardless of the players on the roster.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 10:25 AM
Wow.

Do you hurt your back when you reach that far for that interpretation?

No farther than you reaching for the "proof" in "we were too late to the dance." Hilarious!

frerottenextelway
03-18-2009, 10:27 AM
Are you this dense? He's SAID he'll honor his contract by attending all mandatory team events.

He is.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 10:42 AM
And you're what, frerotte? A mensa member? Pfft.

He also SAID he'd be working out with the team this week. He also SAID he wanted to be a Bronco.

now who's dense?

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 10:45 AM
No farther than you reaching for the "proof" in "we were too late to the dance." Hilarious!

Even when followed with this?

"Do I understand about Jay being hurt that we'd consider this?'' McDaniels said. "Sure."

I'm not the one reaching... you are.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 10:52 AM
Even when followed with this?

"Do I understand about Jay being hurt that we'd consider this?'' McDaniels said. "Sure."

I'm not the one reaching... you are.

They considered a trade. And? What else do you have?

Did you just come up from your home under a rock, in the ocean, where you've been spending the last two weeks with your hands over your eyes and cotton in your ears? We know the trade was considered. It's his job and the front office's job to consider every trade proposal that comes in. It's called "improving the team." He's not the coach of Jay Cutler, he's the coach of the Denver Broncos, remember?

For the millionth time: NOW THAT THE TRADE HAS NOT GONE DOWN, NOW THAT THE "WE ARE NOT TRADING JAY CUTLER" MEME HAS GONE OUT TO THE MASSES, NUMEROUS TIMES, WHAT ELSE DOES JAY WANT?

Oh right. We don't want to talk about that, because it shows Jay as a selfish prick.

McDaniels screwed up by letting this information get out (even though it was released by the Boston Globe; not sure how he's supposed to keep the media of every major city in check). Cutler continues to screw up by being a selfish little asshole.

Joe Montana, Babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky were all traded. Jay Cutler is not untouchable.

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 10:56 AM
Oh wow.

jutang
03-18-2009, 11:00 AM
Joe Montana, Babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky were all traded. Jay Cutler is not untouchable.


The problem with that quote is that 2 of the 3 were past their prime. One wasn't. How long did it take Boston again?:thumbsup:

Cito Pelon
03-18-2009, 11:11 AM
If this is about money only, extend him NOW. I really don't think that it is though. Cutler probably is a petulent child, but he threw for 4500 yards and 25 TD'ss in his 2nd full season as a starter. It's like when you are married to a really good looking woman who happens to have some faults, like being bad with money..you tend to overlook it as long as she looks good. (Does that make me shallow?) He brings too much to the table to not keep him and basically cave into his demands.

Jeez. You say Jay is probably a petulant child, compare him to a good looking woman that has some serious faults.

Boy, that really convinces me to extend Jay's contract.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2009, 11:25 AM
I can't believe a genuine Bronco fan would even try to rationalize trading Jay after all of the RELEVANT statistical analysis that has come to light during this stand off.

There was the article referencing the fact that Jay in 2 1/2 years has played in like 16 games in which his D gave up 30+ pts. During McNabb's 8-9 years he has only played in something like 18. Cannot remember who wrote the article but it has been posted on several times in here.

And now Kirwan brings some more evidence of Jay's abilities:
Other interesting facts about Cutler:
He guided the second-ranked offense in the NFL.
He was No. 1 in fewest percentage of sacks, with 11 in 627 pass plays. That equates to one sack every 57 pass attempts.
He was No. 3 in the NFL in third-down efficiency, the "money" down. The average NFL team converted 39.5 percent of its third downs; Cutler converted 47.5 percent.
He was No. 3 in the AFC in yards per pass play (7.3).
He threw for more yards than Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/profile?id=MAN515097), Eli Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/profile?id=MAN473170), Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/profile?id=MCN017517), Philip Rivers (http://www.nfl.com/players/philiprivers/profile?id=RIV651634), Tony Romo (http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyromo/profile?id=ROM787981) and Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.nfl.com/players/benroethlisberger/profile?id=ROE750381), to name a few.
He had just two 100-yard rushing days from a running back all season: Peyton Hillis (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonhillis/profile?id=HIL734134) (129 against the Jets) and Michael Pittman (http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelpittman/profile?id=PIT226738) (109 against the Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.nfl.com/teams/jacksonvillejaguars/profile?team=JAC)).
He had eight games of 300-plus passing yards (five of those at 350 or more), connecting for 15 touchdowns in those contests.
Sure, he threw 18 interceptions, which is unacceptable, but his ratio of picks to attempts was 1:34, which tells a slightly different story. Last season, Brees had an interception every 37 pass attempts. Favre's ratio was 1:23, and Roethlisberger's was 1:31. Cutler's career ratio is 1:33.
Only Jacksonville's David Garrard (http://www.nfl.com/players/davidgarrard/profile?id=GAR371604) threw more passes in the fourth quarter of games than Cutler, who completed 100 of 167 passes for 1,212 yards and 11 touchdowns with just four interceptions.

This whole thing is so ridiculous. Please Bronco fans leave the guy alone and Please, Please McDink make the necessary move to keep this future ring bearer and Please, Please, Please Mr Bowlen make sure of one thing.....Jay is OUR guy.

I am not at all saying Jay isnt and hasnt acted immature (which is likely an understatement). I am just saying to trade this guy could go down as one of the worst personnel moves in NFL history. And that is coming from a guy living in MN who saw Mike Lynn give the Cowboys a bunch of nose-powdering Champs in exchange for a RB.......

Stay with Jay!

With all due respect to those great stats, I'm skeptical of Jay's ability to be a winner in the future for the Broncs or any other team.

Lolad
03-18-2009, 12:35 PM
With all due respect to those great stats, I'm skeptical of Jay's ability to be a winner in the future for the Broncs or any other team.

This is the bull**** I'm talking about. So you're giving up on a QB who has 38 career starts with STATS better then anybody going in there 3rd year. Facts proving that he is on the worst team defensivley. I guess you would have given up on manning after his 3rd year

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 12:42 PM
This is the bull**** I'm talking about. So you're giving up on a QB who has 38 career starts with STATS better then anybody going in there 3rd year. Facts proving that he is on the worst team defensivley. I guess you would have given up on manning after his 3rd year

Manning didn't throw a hissy fit like a little girl with a skinned knee.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2009, 01:08 PM
This is the bull**** I'm talking about. So you're giving up on a QB who has 38 career starts with STATS better then anybody going in there 3rd year. Facts proving that he is on the worst team defensivley. I guess you would have given up on manning after his 3rd year

Jay has some good stats, but yeah I'm giving up on him. He'll never amount to much in the NFL.

Lolad
03-18-2009, 01:16 PM
Manning didn't throw a hissy fit like a little girl with a skinned knee.

I doubt his coach tried to trade him for a one year wonder.

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 01:19 PM
This was actually a damn good article. Probably one of the best I've read regarding this situation.

Nothing would make me happier than to see this end with Jay staying and yes... even Josh.

I just want us to focus on fixing our defense right now, not all this ridiculous QB **** that shouldn't even be going on.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 01:21 PM
I doubt his coach tried to trade him for a one year wonder.

McDaniels tried to get a quarterback that knew his complicated system AND some value, draft pick-wise, to improve the franchise. You're right. What a dick. /rolleyes

Lolad
03-18-2009, 01:22 PM
Jay has some good stats, but yeah I'm giving up on him. He'll never amount to much in the NFL.

I can tell you're not a good judge of talent. The reason why I think You guys can get rid of Cutler is because some of you actually think good QB's are easy to find.

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2009, 01:23 PM
McDaniels tried to get a quarterback that knew his complicated system AND some value, draft pick-wise, to improve the franchise. You're right. What a dick. /rolleyes

Actually the Tampa trade would have hurt us draft wise as we would have traded our 12th pick in the 1st round for the 19th along with giving up a 3rd round pick.

In accordance with that trade it was actually giving Cassel more value than Cutler. On top of all of this Cassel's salary compared to Cutler's would severely limit our ability to sign players.

bombay
03-18-2009, 01:27 PM
Krieger is far and away the best sportswriter in Denver. His move to the post (sort of) dulled the pain of the Rockie's demise. Not really.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 01:27 PM
Actually the Tampa trade would have hurt us draft wise as we would have traded our 12th pick in the 1st round for the 19th along with giving up a 3rd round pick.

In accordance with that trade it was actually giving Cassel more value than Cutler. On top of all of this Cassel's salary compared to Cutler's would severely limit our ability to sign players.

Yes, assuming you know exactly what that trade was, but you don't. Sorry, but you don't. Neither do I. Nobody does, which makes arguing over it that much more ridiculous.

TonyR
03-18-2009, 01:48 PM
I just want us to focus on fixing our defense right now, not all this ridiculous QB **** that shouldn't even be going on.

What would you suggest they do right now to "focus on fixing our defense"? I'm curious to hear your suggestions. Honestly, what can they do right now? Help me pinpoint the "focus"?

TonyR
03-18-2009, 01:50 PM
Actually the Tampa trade would have hurt us draft wise as we would have traded our 12th pick in the 1st round for the 19th along with giving up a 3rd round pick.


There is no way we would have EVER made a trade even remotely resembling the crap you have stated here. Never.